Scribd Logo
Upload

Welcome to Scribd!

  • 23 views

    The Euthyphro Problem, Old and New

    Uploaded by

    Tanner Burke
    1. The document discusses the Euthyphro dilemma, which questions whether something is morally good because God commands it or God commands it because it is morally good. 2. It presents the dilemma in secular terms, questioning whether something is valuable, like humor or taste, because of our positive response to it or we have a positive response because it is intrinsically valuable. 3. The document raises challenges for both intrinsic and extrinsic moral values given problems of metaphysical strangeness and moral disagreement. It suggests one solution is that morality depends on an infallible transcendent authority like God.

    Copyright:

    © All Rights Reserved
    Download as PDF, TXT or read online from Scribd

    The Euthyphro Problem, Old and New

    Uploaded by

    Tanner Burke
    23 views46 pages
    1. The document discusses the Euthyphro dilemma, which questions whether something is morally good because God commands it or God commands it because it is morally good. 2. It presents the dilemma in secular terms, questioning whether something is valuable, like humor or taste, because of our positive response to it or we have a positive response because it is intrinsically valuable. 3. The document raises challenges for both intrinsic and extrinsic moral values given problems of metaphysical strangeness and moral disagreement. It suggests one solution is that morality depends on an infallible transcendent authority like God.

    Original Title

    Sept11

    Copyright

    © © All Rights Reserved

    Available Formats

    PDF, TXT or read online from Scribd

    Did you find this document useful?

    Is this content inappropriate?

    1. The document discusses the Euthyphro dilemma, which questions whether something is morally good because God commands it or God commands it because it is morally good. 2. It presents the dilemma in secular terms, questioning whether something is valuable, like humor or taste, because of our positive response to it or we have a positive response because it is intrinsically valuable. 3. The document raises challenges for both intrinsic and extrinsic moral values given problems of metaphysical strangeness and moral disagreement. It suggests one solution is that morality depends on an infallible transcendent authority like God.

    Copyright:

    © All Rights Reserved
    Download as PDF, TXT or read online from Scribd
    Download as pdf or txt
    23 views46 pages

    The Euthyphro Problem, Old and New

    Uploaded by

    Tanner Burke
    1. The document discusses the Euthyphro dilemma, which questions whether something is morally good because God commands it or God commands it because it is morally good. 2. It presents the dilemma in secular terms, questioning whether something is valuable, like humor or taste, because of our positive response to it or we have a positive response because it is intrinsically valuable. 3. The document raises challenges for both intrinsic and extrinsic moral values given problems of metaphysical strangeness and moral disagreement. It suggests one solution is that morality depends on an infallible transcendent authority like God.

    Copyright:

    © All Rights Reserved
    Download as PDF, TXT or read online from Scribd
    Download as pdf or txt
    of 46

    The Euthyphro Problem, Old and New

    Class Poll
    Brief Announcements

    1. Slides will be posted to Perusall Library. Starting next week, handouts will be posted
    containing the core text from the slides.

    2. This is a split-level class, with students from different levels of exposure to philosophy.
    Reading assignments will reflect this fact. There will typically be a canonical "required"
    reading bundle as well an "optional" reading or two that may be especially challenging
    without prior background with philosophy.
    Everyone is encouraged to read all of the papers, but you are not expected to master the
    material from the optional readings.
    Students with significant philosophy background should read the paper from Sharon
    Street for next week: "How to be a Relativist about Normativity." If you've already read
    the other works you may focus your annotations on Street.
    THE EUTHYPHRO PROBLEM

    1. The Secular Euthyphro Dilemma


    2. The Euthyphro Dilemma for Religious Morality
    Does morality depend upon religion?

    Many theists and atheists alike agree that the belief in objective morality
    turns upon a belief in some supernatural standard of moral authority.

    Consider the following quote: What is the basic idea behind it? Do you
    agree?
    Only a God "If there is no God, everything is permitted."
    Can Save Us: (A popular misattribution to The Brothers Karamazov, by Fyodor

    Morality and Dostoevsky,


    Dostoevsky, first attributed by Jean Paul Sartre)

    Religion
    A SECULAR EUTHYPHRO PROBLEM

    Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Values


    REVIEW: In discussing whether Euthyphro should prosecute his father,
    Socrates asks a series of questions designed to grapple with the following
    metaethical question:

    “What makes an action pious?"

    As mentioned, while the conversation is couched in terms of the notion


    of piety or holiness, the very same question can be posed for a range of
    ethical concepts, including:

    "Values": What does it mean for some object or state of affairs to be


    The Euthyphro valuable – e.g. good or bad, beautiful, tasty, funny, etc.?

    Problem "Norms": What does it mean for an action to be "right" or "wrong"?


    FINAL DEFINITION: “The holy is whatever all the
    gods love; and its opposite, whatever all the gods
    hate, is unholy.”
    Euthyphro's
    Final (i) Why does Socrates find this answer in need of
    further clarification?
    Definition
    What is the difference between holding:

    (a) “An action is morally right because it is loved by


    God”

    Euthyphro's
    (b) “An action is loved by God because it is morally
    Final right”?
    Definition
    CHALLENGE: How might we pose a
    secular Euthyphro Dilemma for these garden
    variety evaluative judgments?

    The video is humorous/not


    The
    Secular The music is beautiful/not
    Euthyphro The Cilantro is tasty/not
    Problem
    The Secular Euthyphro
    Problem
    A SECULAR EUTHYPHRO PROBLEM

    Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic Moral Values


    A SECULAR EUTHYPHRO PROBLEM:

    What is the difference between these two claims:

    X is good because we have a positive response towards it

    We have a positive attitude towards X because it is good


    Intrinsic Properties: Properties that something has in virtue
    of its internal features or characteristics, independent of its
    relation to other considerations

    The Secular E.g. Your height as a simple measurement


    Euthyphro
    Problem: Pro-Tip: A property of X is intrinsic could be tokened in a
    'lonely universe' in which there is only X
    Intrinsic Value
    Vs.
    Extrinsic Value
    Extrinsic Properties: Properties that something has only
    in relation to some other consideration

    The Secular E.g. Being Taller/Shorter than Gertrude


    Euthyphro
    Problem: Pro-Tip: Could not be tokened in a 'lonely universe'

    Intrinsic Value
    Vs.
    Extrinsic Value
    Which of the following is an INTRINSIC vs. EXTRINSIC
    moral determination:

    (a) “an action is morally right because it is loved


    The Secular by God”
    Euthyphro
    Problem:
    (b) “an action is loved by God because it is good”?
    Intrinsic Value
    Vs.
    Extrinsic Value
    A SECULAR EUTHYPHRO PROBLEM:

    Which of the following is an INTRINSIC vs. EXTRINSIC moral determination:

    X is good because we have a positive response towards it

    We have a positive attitude towards X because it is good


    Extrinsic Value

    X is beautiful/pleasant/tasty because we have a


    positive attitude towards X

    The Secular Intrinsic Value


    Euthyphro
    Problem: We have a positive attitude towards X because it is
    beautiful/pleasing/tasty
    Intrinsic Value
    Vs.
    Extrinsic Value
    CHALLENGE: Are moral judgements intrinsically
    determined or extrinsically determined?

    OBJECTIVISTS:

    In your view, what challenges are there


    for thinking about moral judgements as
    The Secular EXITRINSICALLY determined facts?
    Euthyphro
    Problem: NIHILISTS & RELATIVISTS:

    Intrinsic Value In your view, what challenges are there


    Vs. for thinking about moral judgements as
    Extrinsic Value INTRINSICALLY determined facts?
    THINK: Why might one think that humor is best
    thought of as an extrinsic feature of a state of
    affairs?
    A Euthyphro
    Problem for
    the Value of
    Humor
    THINK: If truths about the humorous
    that are extrinsically determined by response
    dependent facts – e.g. facts about what we do in
    A Euthyphro fact laugh at – what unpalatable consequences
    Problem for could this entail?
    the Value of
    Humor
    On the Response-Dependence of Humor: "A racist
    could find the […] joke funny. How can an act be
    Michael's considered objectively wrong because only a
    majority of people feel that it is wrong?"
    Annotation
    A Euthyphro
    THINK: What parallel point could be made about
    Problem for extrinsic moral values?
    Extrinsic
    Values
    THINK: If there are truths about the humorous that
    Intrinsically are intrinsically determined, what unpalatable
    consequences could this entail, especially if we are
    Funny? committed to a scientific worldview?
    Intrinsic Gustatory Values?

    THINK: If we suppose that there are truths about gustatory


    values – e.g. "Cilantro is tasty" – that are intrinsically determined,
    what unpalatable consequences could this entail, especially if we
    are committed to a scientific worldview?
    What analogous point might we make about
    Intrinsic moral values?
    Moral If we say that an action is intrinsically right, or
    Values? a state of affairs is intrinsically good, why
    might this sound strange given everything we
    know about the natural universe?
    Goodness as an "INTRINSICALLY NORMATIVE" Property

    “Something's being good both tells the person who knows this to
    pursue it and makes him pursue it. An objective good would be
    sought by anyone who was acquainted with it, not because of any
    contingent fact that this person, or every person, is so constituted
    that he desires this end, but just because the end has to-be-
    pursuedness somehow built into it. Similarly, if there were objective
    principles of right and wrong, any wrong (possible) course of action
    Mackie's would have not-to-bedoneness somehow built into it.”
    Argument
    from The same point can be made in terms of a range of evaluative
    responses: e.g. to-be-lovedness, to-be-admiredness, to-be-
    Metaphysical hatedness

    Strangeness Ontological Strangeness: “If there were objective values, then they
    would be entities or qualities or relations of a very strange sort,
    utterly different from anything else in the universe.”
    THINK: If there are truths about the humorous that
    are intrinsically determined, what unpalatable
    consequences could this entail, especially if we are
    committed to a scientific worldview?
    Argument In most forms of systematic inquiry, we typically find
    from a trend of consensus in determining the intrinsic
    properties of objects.
    Disagreement
    If moral values were intrinsic properties of actions
    and states of affairs in the world, why on earth is
    there so much moral disagreement?
    Challenge for Intrinsic Values: How do we explain intrinsic
    moral facts or properties, given that most of our knowledge
    The Secular about the intrinsic features of things in the world is grounded
    in empirically observable naturalistic facts?
    Euthyphro
    Challenge for Extrinsic Values: How can moral properties or
    Dilemma fact be extrinsically determined without giving up the idea
    that there are correctness conditions on moral judgments?
    Only a God Can Save Us?

    One historically predominant solution to these problems:

    Moral facts are extrinsically determined by some infallible


    transcendent source of normative authority
    Only a God
    Can Save Us
    Does morality depend upon religion?

    Many theists and atheists alike agree that the belief in objective morality
    turns upon a belief in some supernatural standard of moral authority.

    Consider the following quote: What is the basic idea behind it? Do you
    agree?
    Only a God "If there is no God, everything is permitted."
    Can Save Us: (A popular misattribution to The Brothers Karamazov, by Fyodor

    Morality and Dostoevsky,


    Dostoevsky, first attributed by Jean Paul Sartre)

    Religion
    Divine Command Theory – An action X's being right or
    wrong is explained solely by the fact that God
    commands/prohibits X

    The Divine
    Command
    Theory
    The Divine Command Theory has historically been advanced
    in conjunction with a traditional Western monotheistic
    conception of God as a personal creator who is omnipotent,
    omnibenevolent, and omniscient

    It is important to keep in mind that this is only one


    conception of the Divine

    Posing challenges for the Divine Command Theory is not


    The Divine only an opportunity to critique and/or defend the
    traditional conception of God, but also an invitation to
    Command reconsider whether religious morality might find
    grounding in an alternative conception of the Divine
    Theory
    RELIGIOUS MORALITY AND
    THE EUTHYPHRO PROBLEM
    DIVINE COMMAND THEORY
    The First Horn:
    Good Because Commanded By God

    The Second Horn:


    Commanded By God Because Good

    EUTHYPHRO'S THINK: Why might we think that each horn presents its
    own challenge for the religious conception of morality?
    HORNS
    THINK: What challenges are posed by
    claiming that an action is morally right
    The First because it is commanded by God?
    Horn:
    Good Because
    Commanded
    The Problem of Arbitrariness
    The First
    Horn:
    Good Because
    Commanded
    God's Commands as Arbitrary and Potentially Heinous

    Ralph Cudworth (1617-1688):

    [C]ertain it is, that diverse modern theologians do not only


    seriously, but zealously contend. . . that there is nothing
    absolutely, intrinsically, and naturally good and evil, just and
    unjust, antecedently to any positive command or prohibition of
    God; but that the arbitrary will of God...by its commands and
    The First prohibitions, is the first and only rule and measure thereof.
    Horn: Whence it follows unavoidably, that nothing can be imagined
    so grossly wicked, or so foully unjust or dishonest, but if it
    Good Because were supposed to be commanded by this Omnipotent Deity,
    Commanded must needs upon that hypothesis forthwith become holy, just
    and righteous.
    [Treatise Concerning Eternal and Immutable Morality 1.1.5]
    Praise Be...to What Exactly?
    The Vacuousness of God’s Own Goodness

    Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (1646-1716):

    In saying… that things are not good according to any


    standard of goodness, but simply by the will of God, it seems to
    The First me that one destroys, without realizing it, all the love of God
    and all his glory; for why praise him for what he has done, if he
    Horn: would be equally praiseworthy in doing the contrary?
    Good Because
    Commanded [Discourse on Metaphysics, 2]
    God Can Make Anything Meritorious

    William Ockham (1280-1349):

    "Hatred, theft, adultery, and the like may involve evil according to the
    common law, in so far as they are done by someone who is obligated by a
    divine command to perform the opposite act… [However] they can … be
    performed meritoriously by someone on earth if they should fall under a
    divine command, just as now the opposite of these, in fact, fall under a

    The First divine command. God can perform them without involving any evil."

    Horn: "God is a debtor to no one, and therefore he is not obligated to cause either
    that act or the opposite act; nor is he obliged not to cause that act.
    Good Because Therefore, however much he might cause that act, God does not sin." [Opera
    Commanded Theologica V]

    THINK: Why might someone like Ockham think that the omnipotence of
    God necessitates the radical contingency of moral facts? Do you agree?
    Why not just say that God commands X
    because X is good?

    The Second THINK: Why might taking the second horn


    present trouble for a religious conception of
    Horn: morality?
    Commanded
    Because Good
    A Blasphemous Contradiction with
    Omnipotence?
    John Duns Scotus (1265–1308):

    "[I]f the precepts of the Ten Commandments … had [independent]


    necessity—say, if the following were necessary: “One’s neighbor is not to be
    killed or hated,” “Theft is not to be done,” and so on— it would follow that,
    The Second Horn: independently of any willing whatsoever, they would be necessary for any
    intellect apprehending such propositions...Therefore, God cannot make them
    Commanded false. Therefore, he cannot make what they mark out as good to be anything
    but good, and he cannot make what they prohibit to be anything but
    Because Good bad." [Ordinatio III]
    DEBATE:

    In your view, does the rejection of the Divine Command Theory


    contradict or undermine the traditional Judeo-Christian
    conception of monotheistic God?

    How might someone argue that belief in an independent


    objective foundation for morality represents an outright
    contradiction with the traditional monotheistic conception of
    IN-CLASS God? Do you agree?

    DEBATE
    Omnipotence Within Boundaries?
    Hugo Grotius (1583–1645):

    "The [moral] law of nature, again, is unchangeable—even in the sense that


    it cannot be changed by God. Measureless as is the power of
    God, nevertheless it can be said that there are certain things over which that
    power does not extend; for things of which this is said are spoken only,
    having no sense corresponding with reality and being mutually contradictory.
    Just as even God, then, cannot cause that two times two should not make
    four, so he cannot cause that that which is intrinsically evil be not evil." [Law
    of War and Peace, 1.10.5]
    The Second Horn: DEBATE: Does the limitation of God's power provide a
    Commanded solution? Is this a contradiction of the traditional conception of
    God?
    Because Good
    DEBATE: How might someone argue that belief in an
    independent objective foundation for morality, even if
    compatible with a traditional conception of God, renders the
    latter unnecessary or superfluous? Do you agree?

    IN-CLASS
    DEBATE
    In Person Attendance Rotations:
    All lecture meetings will be conducted in person.
    Rotations for in person attendance. Masks will be
    worn by myself and audience participants.

    Remote Lectures Plus In Person Tutorials:


    Keep lecture meetings remote. Add weekly small
    group discussion meetings. Attendance at small
    In-Person group sessions is optional but a slot will be
    Options reserved for every student.

    You might also like