Cross-Examination of Alex Deas at Skiles v. Lamartek Trial in 2016

Filing # 44141980 E-Filed 07/19/2016 04:27:54 PM
1740
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE 15TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA
CASE NO.: 50 2012 CA 013132 MB AN
TERRI SKILES, as Personal

Representative of the Estate of
WESLEY SKILES, Deceased,
Plaintiff,
vs.
LAMARTEK, INC., d/b/a DIVE RITE;
DIVE GEAR EXPRESS, LLC, f/k/a
DIVE RITE EXPRESS; FILL EXPRESS,
LLC, a/k/a DIVE RITE EXPRESS;
MARK E. DERRICK, Individually;
JUERGENSEN MARINE, INC., a
Foreign Corporation; and
ANALYTICAL INDUSTRIES, INC., a
Foreign Corporation,
Defendants.
________________________________/
TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL PROCEEDINGS

VOLUME 14 (Pages 1740 - 1924)
DATE TAKEN: May 13, 2016

TIME: 1:00 p.m. - 5:10 p.m.
PLACE: Palm Beach County Courthouse
205 North Dixie Highway
West Palm Beach, Florida
BEFORE: CHERYL CARACUZZO, Circuit Judge
This cause came on to be heard at the time and

place aforesaid, when and where the following
proceedings were stenographically reported by:
Kimberly Fontalvo, RPR, CLR
Realtime Systems Administrator
www.phippsreporting.com
(888)811-3408
add48cb8-b5bc-415c-81c8-9ac4a7db992b
1741
1 APPEARANCES:
2
On behalf of Plaintiff:
3
4 ROMANO LAW GROUP
1005 Lake Avenue
5 Lake Worth, FL 33460
(561)533-6700
6 BY: JOHN F. ROMANO, ESQ.
[email protected]
7 BY: COREY B. FRIEDMAN, ESQ.
[email protected]
8
SPANGENBERG SHIBLEY & LIBER, LLP
9 1001 Lakeside Avenue East
Suite 1700
10 Cleveland, OH 44114
(216)-696-3232
11 BY: DUSTIN B. HERMAN, ESQUIRE
[email protected]
12
13 SPOHRER & DODD, P.A.
701 West Adams Street
14 Suite 2
Jacksonville, FL 32204
15 (904)309-6500
BY: ROBERT F. SPOHRER, ESQ.
16 [email protected]
17
18 On behalf of Defendant Lamartek, Inc.:
19 LAW OFFICES OF DAVID G. CONCANNON, LLC
200 Eagle Road
20 Suite 116
Wayne, PA 19087
21 BY: DAVID G. CONCANNON, ESQUIRE
[email protected]
22
23 CHRISTOPHER F. LANZA, P.A.
290 NW 165 Street, Suite P-600
24 Miami, FL 33169
(305)956-9040
25 BY: CHRISTOPHER F. LANZA, ESQ.
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1 I N D E X
2
3
Examination Page
4
5 VOLUME 14 (Pages 1740 - 1925)
6
7 ALEX DEAS, PH.D.
8 Cross By Mr. Concannon 1745
Redirect By Mr. Herman 1905
9 Jury Questions 1921
10
11
12 DEFENSE EXHIBITS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
13 Page
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15 Defense Exhibit 3 1898
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1 Thereupon, the proceedings continued at 1:00 p.m.
2 COURT DEPUTY: All rise. Court is now
3 back in session.
4 THE COURT: Okay. Are we ready for the
5 jury? Let's bring them in.
6 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor, there were just
7 two more things or one area of questioning that
8 I wanted to make sure Mr. Concannon didn't get
9 into. In his deposition, he brought up his
10 divorce hearing and something the judge had
11 wrote about his divorce. I want to make sure
12 that's not going to be covered.
13 There's a Court opinion from -- a federal
14 court opinion from New Hampshire or Connecticut
15 where an order said that the jury was free to
16 decide against Mr. Deas' doubtful theory. And
17 I wanted to make sure he's not going to --
18 THE COURT: Are you intending to go into
19 those areas?
20 MR. CONCANNON: Yes. I'm not going to ask
21 him about his divorce. I'll just indicate that
22 he testified in personal matters -- testified
23 three times previously, and then in each
24 instance --
25 THE COURT: It doesn't need to say
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1 personal matters. Just that you've given
2 testimony before on three occasions.
3 MR. CONCANNON: Right, exactly. And in
4 each instance, the Court made findings about
5 reliability of your testimony. And
6 methodology -- everything --
7 MR. HERMAN: Totally improper.
8 THE COURT: How is that proper for cross
9 examination?
10 MR. CONCANNON: He was just asked just
11 before the lunch break if this is the type of
12 reliable methodology that he uses in every
13 instance. And in those other cases, he just --
14 that's exactly what he did. I'm trying to find
15 the questioning. Almost at the end.
16 MR. SPOHRER: Doesn't matter what the
17 question was. Still doesn't make this
18 permissible.
19 THE COURT: When it comes to that, you'll
20 have to proffer. Bring out the jury. I'm not
21 waiting.
22 MR. CONCANNON: We're not going to get to
23 that --
24 (Jurors entered the courtroom.)
25 THE COURT: Welcome back, everyone. Hope
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1 you had a good lunch. With that, I'll turn
2 to -- Dr. Deas is coming back. We will
3 continue on with the cross examination of
4 Dr. Deas. Watch your step. I'll remind you
5 you're under oath.
6 Mr. Concannon, whenever you're ready.
7 MR. CONCANNON: Thank you, Your Honor.
8 CROSS EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. CONCANNON:
10 Q. Good afternoon, Dr. Deas.
11 A. Good afternoon.
12 Q. I would like to start your questioning
13 with some terminology, because I think that we've
14 been throwing around a lot of acronyms, and I want
15 to make sure that they're all clear. It's
16 important.
17 So, this case is referred to as a
18 rebreather case, but the acronym that is most often
19 used is closed-circuit rebreather, or CCR, correct?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Now, there are different types of
22 rebreathers that are not closed-circuit rebreathers,
23 correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. There's something called semi-closed,
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1 correct?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And would that be an SCR?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And what other -- of the closed circuit --
6 and then there's open circuit?
7 A. Right.
8 Q. We call that OC, sometimes you'll hear
9 that referred to.
10 And then of the closed-circuit
11 rebreathers, there's various types, correct?
12 A. Correct.
13 Q. So there's an -- MCCR stands for manual,
14 correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And tell the jury, what is a manual
17 closed-circuit rebreather?
18 A. A manual rebreather injects a baseline
19 level of oxygen that is supposed to be the same as
20 your base level metabolism, same metabolism as
21 you're sitting down now. While the diver is active
22 in the water, he has to monitor his handsets, and if
23 the oxygen is low, add oxygen manually to top off
24 the oxygen.
25 Q. I wrote down injects a baseline PPO2,
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1 which is the partial pressure of oxygen. Is that
2 correct?
3 A. It doesn't inject PPO2. It injects a
4 baseline oxygen flow; typically .7 liters per
5 minute. One sitting down relaxing, the average
6 person, it is about .7 liters of oxygen they're
7 consuming.
8 Q. So it's a constant flow --
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. -- of .7 liters per minute, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. No matter what?
13 A. And they top it up to whatever their
14 actual metabolic rate is.
15 Q. So then the diver -- are there any
16 electronics to show you what that level is, or do
17 you just --
18 A. One has to have electronics; otherwise,
19 you can't know what a PPO2 is.
20 Q. I'll stop you for a minute. Knowing your
21 PPO2 is one of the fundamental rules of rebreather
22 diving, correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. The diver has to know what they're
25 breathing at all times?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. They're supposed to check what they're
3 breathing at all times?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Many divers, it's true that they have to
6 be certified to purchase a rebreather, correct?
7 A. No.
8 Q. No? Do divers have to be certified to be
9 able to purchase the rebreather that your company
10 makes?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Okay. Do divers have to be certified to
13 manufacture the rebreather that Dive Rite makes?
14 A. Certified to manufacture it in the United
15 States.
16 Q. No, no. If a member of the jury wanted to
17 purchase a Dive Rite rebreather, would they be
18 required to get certification?
19 A. I do not know --
20 MR. HERMAN: Objection.
21 A. -- the conditions of Dive Rite.
22 THE COURT: Overruled.
23 MR. HERMAN: Objection for referring to
24 the jury.
25 THE COURT: Sustained on that. Anybody --
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1 just ask it if anyone wanted to go buy a
2 rebreather. Go ahead.
3 A. I do not know the terms, the conditions of
4 Dive Rite, but do I know there's -- the rebreather
5 from Dive Rite after the first purchase are bought
6 on market without anybody needing to show
7 certification.
8 BY MR. CONCANNON:
9 Q. That's an important point, Doctor, because
10 I believe your expert testimony is that you have an
11 opinion that Dive Rite's rebreather is defective for
12 foreseeable users of that rebreather, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Okay. And are you testifying now that you
15 don't know who the foreseeable users of the product
16 are?
17 A. No, I do know, but they're not necessarily
18 the user group that the manufacturer may wish to
19 have. When he sells a rebreather, sells it into the
20 market, and it's then often sold on after a few
21 years. And so one has to look at the real user
22 group, real people that are going to use that
23 product.
24 Q. Do you have an expert opinion as to
25 whether or not Mr. Hires or his wife, LeeAnn, or
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1 anybody in a position of authority at Dive Rite did
2 not consider the foreseeable users of their product?
3 A. I'm thinking carefully. I did not
4 consider whether -- I did not see any information
5 about whether they had considered the user group.
6 And so I can't give you an opinion on that. I have
7 not seen information clearly one way or the other.
8 But the fact is that when one sells a
9 rebreather, one cannot really control it afterwards.
10 That is the reason that we very strongly recommend
11 training and other things when we sell the
12 rebreather. But we cannot enforce that. It's
13 actually illegal for us to enforce it in Europe
14 because we couldn't oblige someone to purchase
15 services from a third party when we sell our
16 product.
17 Q. Let's talk about the United States. When
18 you sell your product to a user in the United
19 States, not talking about when somebody else does,
20 who do you foresee are the users of your product in
21 the United States?
22 A. In the United States, when we sell a
23 rebreather, we check that the person is a rebreather
24 diver already. If they are already a rebreather
25 diver, we do the sale. If they are not already a
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1 rebreather diver, we contact instructor and make
2 sure they booked in with instructor. But
3 overwhelmingly, people buying rebreathers are
4 rebreather divers.
5 Q. Just so we're clear, you check -- explain
6 to the jury what you mean when you check to make
7 sure they booked it with a rebreather instructor.
8 A. Right. When we sell a rebreather, we like
9 to know who we sell it to.
10 Q. Why is that important? Why do you want to
11 know who you sell a rebreather to?
12 A. We don't want to sell to people that may
13 injure themselves on it. So we maintain both
14 blacklist of people we do not want to sell it
15 because they have known dangerous dive practices,
16 and also new people turn up and try buy it online
17 through a website, and we want to know who is this
18 person.
19 And so I find out where they live and make
20 contact. If we don't know that they're a rebreather
21 diver, then we contact to find out what their plans
22 are for training. And we recommend instructors.
23 Q. And you recommend to the potential
24 purchaser that they get trained on your unit,
25 correct?
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1 A. Yes, although we recognize that it's quite
2 surprising when we sell rebreathers, only about
3 10 percent get retrained on our specific unit.
4 Surprisingly low, even though we really emphasize it
5 and changed our terms and conditions to include free
6 training. Actually doubled the price of the
7 rebreather -- so the training costs as much as
8 rebreather. We doubled the price of the rebreather
9 and gave that money to instructors to try to
10 increase the percentage that people get trained on
11 our unit.
12 Q. That's okay with you that 90 percent of
13 your purchasers do not get trained on your unit?
14 A. We're not happy with it. But that is the
15 reality. We cannot change this ever. We have to
16 design for that.
17 Q. Is it also the reality that you don't sell
18 rebreathers to the sport diving market?
19 A. That's not true at all.
20 Q. It's not? All right. Talk about your
21 deposition in a minute.
22 Let's go back to terminology.
23 In addition to an MCRR, is there something
24 known as an eCCR?
25 A. Yes.
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1 Q. "E" stands for electronic, correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. That's what we're talking about here, an
4 electronic rebreather?
5 A. Yes. It's adding gas automatically to
6 maintain a particular PPO2 setpoint.
7 Q. So, adding gas, but you mean oxygen?
8 A. Normally it's oxygen.
9 Q. Electronically to maintain setpoint?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And who determines the setpoint?
12 A. A mix. First of all, the diver selects
13 setpoint on the controller when he sets it up. And
14 then some controllers then vary the setpoint
15 automatically. When you're, for example, diving at
16 10 meters or 30 feet, 60 feet, you can have a higher
17 percentage of oxygen, greater pressure of oxygen
18 than you could have on the surface.
19 For example, on the surface, you're
20 limited to one atmosphere of pressure of oxygen.
21 Whereas underwater if you were at 33 feet, you could
22 actually have two atmospheres of pressure of oxygen,
23 if you so desired. Wouldn't say it that way. You
24 can have higher pressure.
25 Between the surface and the particular
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1 depth, one only increases the PPO2 if you set, for
2 example, typically .7 is the PPO2, that's 70 percent
3 of atmospheric pressure, PPO2 on the surface, and
4 then once you're below 120 meters, you would switch
5 to a higher setpoint. Typical higher setpoint is
6 1.2 to 1.4.
7 Q. The diver decides what setpoint the diver
8 wants to use. They input that into the electronics?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And then the rebreather is supposed to
11 maintain setpoint, correct?
12 A. On most electronic rebreathers. That's
13 not true of all.
14 Q. Is it true of the Dive Rite O2ptima?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. That's what we're talking about?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And then the diver is supposed to
19 manipulate the set point and change it based on
20 various conditions on the dive?
21 A. What do you mean? You set it and keep the
22 whole dive.
23 Q. Generally set it and keep it for the whole
24 dive. All right.
25 And then there is something called an
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1 ICCR. Did I get that right?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. What does "I" stand for?
4 A. Intervention.
5 Q. Intervention. Explain to the jury what an
6 intervention CCR is supposed to do.
7 A. It is like a manual rebreather, MCRR,
8 whereas in order to know what the PPO2 is, you have
9 to press a button. Because of that, you know how
10 often the diver looks at his PPO2. If it's obvious
11 he's not looking at his PPO2 sufficiently,
12 frequently, then it automatically bails him out to
13 open circuit. Because the diver is unsafe on
14 rebreather. The diver does not know his PPO2, he's
15 unsafe on it, so it automatically bails him out. So
16 it forces the diver to go look at the PPO2.
17 Now, the two version -- primary version is
18 straight MCCR, do the same thing with eCCR, but the
19 model that -- of the 2009 show was a manual unit
20 that actually bailed the diver out if the diver was
21 not monitoring PPO2 properly. There's a -- your
22 eCCR version, the same principle. But the one that
23 we offer is a manual rebreather.
24 Q. And then beyond these, we have -- sorry to
25 block the jury -- commercial and military
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1 rebreathers, correct?
2 A. Yes. Those are all either -- three, four
3 types. There's a pure oxygen rebreather favored by
4 military, eCCR favored by the military. There is
5 ESER, electronically-controlled SER, and they're
6 used for commercial diving and military. And
7 there's also eCCR for commercial diving. So there's
8 a variety of different merchandise. Military
9 virtually unique in using oxygen rebreathers
10 heavily.
11 Q. But oxygen rebreathers cannot be used
12 below a certain safe depth; is that correct?
13 A. That is correct.
14 Q. What is that safe depth?
15 A. If it's a sports diver doing this, it's
16 6 meters. Most militaries are 8 meters, some
17 militaries are 12 meters.
18 Q. 6 meters for sport, right?
19 A. That's due to European regulation. EA143
20 gives that limit of PPO2 at 1.6 and assumes that the
21 diver has totally flushed the unit, which is very,
22 very difficult to do.
23 Whereas the military looks at what the
24 actual flushing rate is likely to be. So the same
25 1.6 PPO2, but down to 8 meters because you have some
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1 residual gas which is not being flushed out that
2 reduces the actual PPO2 of the unit, and some
3 militaries dive as deep as 12 meters.
4 Q. So 12 meters?
5 A. That's in Asia.
6 Q. 12 meters for military?
7 A. Some military.
8 Q. Some. And what is 12 meters in feet,
9 about 40 feet?
10 A. Yes, about that.
11 Q. About 38 feet?
12 A. Something around there.
13 Q. Diving to 38 feet on pure oxygen is not
14 recommended amongst sport divers?
15 A. Definitely not.
16 Q. Now, there's also been terminology about
17 the difference between sport diving and technical
18 diving. Can you explain to the jury the difference
19 between sport diving and technical diving?
20 A. Technical diving essentially is when
21 there's overhead environment. So if one has
22 decompression limits, you are limited to go to the
23 surface. That is regarded as technical diving.
24 If you're inside a cave, diver's got miles
25 inside caves. That's technical diving. Some divers
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1 go a long way inside wrecks, technical diving. The
2 diver cannot go to the surface.
3 And if there's a large decompression
4 overhead, the diver, again, cannot swim to the
5 surface. So technical diving, one has to manage
6 things such as that whatever goes wrong, whatever
7 happens, one can survive underwater until such time
8 as you can swim to the surface.
9 That might be minutes or it may be many
10 hours. Some dives are done are 12 hours before you
11 can get to the surface. That's a range. You have
12 to be able to survive for 12 hours --
13 JOHNSON, REBECCA: Can I get a pen?
14 THE COURT: Sure. Can I get an extra pen
15 for the juror?
16 A. Whereas sports diver can -- sports divers
17 swim to the surface many times. So, for example, if
18 a sports diver runs out of gas, he's trained to go
19 to open water, leave in the regulator and swim to
20 the surface. With a rebreather, you want to take
21 the regulator out and swim to the surface. Slightly
22 different.
23 BY MR. CONCANNON:
24 Q. Of the rebreather -- the rebreather that
25 you showed to the jury yesterday, this is a
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1 prototype that was on a stand in 2009?
2 A. It actually had the production unit and it
3 was on the stand in 2009, and we were waiting to get
4 authority to sell them because we were waiting for
5 the CE approval certificate.
6 Q. So, this is called the Apocalypse?
7 A. Yes, play on words. The word "apocalypse"
8 means to unveil, comes from the Latin apocalypsis.
9 Walt Disney turned it into the end of the world.
10 The word does not mean that. It means to unveil.
11 So we use the play on the word that underwater, you
12 unveil, you see a new world unveiled to you. But if
13 you don't dive it properly, it will be your end.
14 That's why we use the play to emphasize to customers
15 be careful, follow the rules, but if you follow the
16 rules, it unveils this great world.
17 Q. Otherwise, you could have an apocalyptic
18 experience?
19 A. In Walt Disney's terminology, yes.
20 Q. The Apocalypse is a manual CCR, correct?
21 A. That one is an ICCR.
22 Q. I see. That's an ICCR?
23 A. Also do a manual CCR version.
24 Q. But you don't do an electronic version of
25 this presently?
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1 A. Not for sports divers, no. We do it for
2 military divers.
3 Q. And you've never done an electronic
4 version of this, for instance, that Mr. Skiles could
5 purchase?
6 A. No. Our electronic rebreathers are
7 commercial diving and military. Our safety setting
8 determined that the MCCRs have better safety records
9 and, therefore, they're safer for sports divers.
10 Q. I see. And so this rebreather doesn't
11 have, for instance, handsets that the diver needs to
12 monitor and control and manipulate?
13 A. Well, that's different. It has a --
14 certain handsets speaks to you. It's got a speaker
15 inside that when you're diving, speaks into your
16 mask, it's like having a voice in your head, so it
17 tells you the information. And there's a display
18 which gives -- you use the front of it, tells you
19 the information about PPO2. You press the button
20 and it tells you, press the button, it speaks to
21 you. If it has an alarm, it speaks to you.
22 The handset information is put on the
23 back, two displays on the back for your buddies.
24 They can see what your breather is telling you. And
25 it has nice, big icons coming up saying, for
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1 example, do not dive and things like this. And
2 tells you your PPO2. So a different concept.
3 Now, after we did that, the other
4 rebreather manufacturers went together and changed
5 to require a handset. But that handset is
6 superfluous because in our safety studies, we found
7 that we could not control the rate at which divers
8 look at the handset. And the rate at which divers
9 look at the handsets varies considerably. So we
10 have to look at what actual users do and, therefore,
11 design a unit that does not require users to look at
12 the handsets. That's what we did.
13 Q. Do you recommend the use of this
14 rebreather for filming?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Why not?
17 A. Because it involves intervention. Filming
18 we consider to be commercial application. And if
19 Mr. Skiles had come to us with his experience, we
20 actually talked him to the commercial diving unit,
21 in a scuba mode. So we have a commercial diving
22 unit which is much longer duration, and that can do
23 that for about four or five hours in the water.
24 Commercial diving unit can do ten hours in
25 these conditions, and it would allow him to have
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1 pure eCCR, but that would be under a special
2 arrangement. We do support people who have
3 exceptional experience.
4 Q. You're talking about what you do today in
5 2016, correct?
6 A. We've always done that.
7 Q. I see. This rebreather did not ship to
8 anyone prior to 2011, correct?
9 A. It took us until 2011 before we get the
10 certificate, that's correct, and then shipped.
11 Q. But Mr. Skiles died in 2010?
13 Q. And this commercial rebreather that you're
14 talking about or that you would have steered
15 Mr. Skiles to, what's that called?
16 A. It's called the umbilical supplied
17 rebreather, but it also operates in nonumbilical
18 form. You just connect tanks from the side, you
19 disconnect and take out the top head.
20 Q. Let's talk about that. That's -- when you
21 talk about an umbilical supplied rebreather, what
22 you're talking about is a commercial diver that has
23 an umbilical that supplies him with life support
24 from the surface or some other place, correct?
25 A. It supplies him with gas to the rebreather
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1 and supplies him with communications to the
2 rebreather and back again. That voice
3 communication, video and also telemetry. And so the
4 operator has two screens. One is video and voice.
5 Voice come over the headphones. And the second
6 gives you all the telemetry data for the rebreather.
7 You can see the breathing rate, you can see the
8 temperature, you can see oxygen. You can look at
9 the screens.
10 Q. Now, hold on a second. You've got two
11 people operating this piece of equipment, correct?
12 A. A commercial dive -- diver situation
13 involves a supervisor on the surface and the diver.
14 Q. All right. So --
15 A. The diver, just like a manual laborer,
16 does the supervisor asks him to do.
17 Q. So he's just the guy that has to wear it
18 and then somebody else pays attention to it while
19 he's diving?
20 A. Yes. There's no alarm conditions. There
21 are no displays on the commercial diving unit at
22 all.
23 Q. And when did you bring this umbilical CCR
24 to the market? 2011? 2012?
25 A. Well, it's had different forms. When you
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1 say to the market, the first ones we sold in 2007.
2 But they then went through a revision and the new
3 ones in 2008, then more production engineering in
4 2010. And then subsequently to that we reduced the
5 umbilical size because we were using quite a thick
6 umbilical, a standard umbilical, which is quite
7 thick.
8 In fact, for open circuit, a commercial
9 diving is done normally with reclaim system on the
10 boat or free flow. The umbilical is big. Some
11 umbilicals are this big and very hard to pull.
12 Imagine you got 50 feet of that or 150 feet of that.
13 You're pulling along. It's hard work. So we
14 reduced the size of the umbilical in 2010 and then
15 reduced it down further.
16 If you do scuba diving, you disconnect
17 your umbilical and actually take out the top head
18 and replace it with a dump top head. So there's
19 virtually two laboratories inside that head, and
20 there's 63 sensors on each side, doing analysis of
21 gas, all sorts of gases, not just oxygen, looking at
22 volatile organic compounds, looking at carbon
23 dioxide, looking at breathing rates of the diver,
24 all manner of things. There's 63 parameters going
25 up on each side up to the top. Each side is two
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1 scrubbers and electronics is quite redundant.
2 Q. So, Doctor, what I'm trying to understand,
3 that's the rebreather that you would have
4 recommended to Mr. Skiles?
5 A. With top cut down to scuba, yes.
6 Q. With the tops cut down to scuba.
7 And when could Mr. Skiles have purchased
8 the umbilical CCR with the top cut down to scuba?
9 A. If he approached us -- if he approached us
10 in 2010, he would not have got it until 2011 because
11 we didn't get any C certificates to allow us to ship
12 those until 2011.
13 Q. So he couldn't have had that rebreather
14 when he died?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Right. And I believe you testified
17 earlier that you've produced 11 of those
18 rebreathers, correct?
19 A. Eleven for further of those rebreather.
20 Those are the original ones with the design for
21 saturation diving. We sold 11 of those. And then
22 did some changes to it, which is then further.
23 There was a trickle over the years 2011 to 2015.
24 Current year, right now, we've built 300 of those in
25 the factory.
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1 Q. Well, this is 2016, right? And we're
2 talking about what Mr. Skiles could have used in
3 2010?
4 A. He could not have purchased that
5 rebreather and had shipment in that year because we
6 did not receive the C certificate and when we showed
7 that we had had preordered for CE.
8 Q. Well, now you're talking about the
9 Apocalypse?
10 A. On the other ones as well, the commercial
11 one.
12 Q. That's what I'm trying to understand.
13 A. Okay. I think we covered it.
14 Q. The next rebreather that was shown to the
15 jury -- was this -- the Megalodon, right?
16 A. Right.
17 Q. This particular rebreather was available
18 in 2012?
19 A. That particular model, which has very,
20 very tiny differences --
21 Q. Well, I'm asking you what you showed to
22 the jury.
23 A. Yes. That particular model was about
24 2011, 2012. I had dived that in 2008, previous
25 model. You could buy those years earlier. That was
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1 available, but they had few improvements which
2 they've done. When I opened up the head of that, I
3 could see straight away it was a 2011 or 2012 model.
4 But it looks identical, virtually, on the outside to
5 the earlier model.
6 Q. That's pretty heavy, aren't they?
7 A. They are heavy. Megalodon -- watching
8 across the beach is very heavy work.
9 Q. Right. That's a lot to carry. And if
10 you're going to be using a camera, that's even more
11 to carry, correct?
12 A. Correct, compared to the Apocalypse.
13 Apocalypse very light.
14 Q. Right. And all of these bits and pieces
15 is kind of like wrestling a bagpipe underwater,
16 isn't it?
17 A. On the Megalodon?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. I found it very straightforward to dive.
20 I found it very -- it was pretty straightforward to
21 dive. Was some issues with the Megalodon. But not
22 difficult.
23 Q. If there was some testimony in this case
24 that Mr. Skiles made one dive in the Bahamas in 2008
25 or 2009, do you know what type of rebreather he may
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1 have been using?
2 A. 2009?
3 Q. Or '8?
4 A. Or '8? I don't.
5 Q. Okay. And, as far as you know, Mr. Skiles
6 had not been diving on a rebreather previously since
7 2000 and -- 2000, ten years before the accident?
8 A. That's not correct. Because I went
9 through the -- it is clearly at least three
10 rebreathers he had been diving.
11 First of all, the Cis-Lunar rebreather,
12 this is a very complicated rebreather. It's like
13 carrying half a creature on your back. Very
14 complicated device. Very advanced rebreather. And
15 he was pioneer of rebreather diving. He was taught
16 on that. Really one of the early pioneers.
17 And then years later he did a training on
18 the Megalodon. He received certification to trimix
19 so that would imply quite a few dives on the
20 Megalodon.
21 Q. Let me stop you there. That would imply
22 quite a few dives on the Megalodon, right?
23 A. I would find it astonishing an instructor
24 would give somebody a trimix certificate on a
25 Megalodon without doing significant number of dives.
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1 When I had to do 50 trimix -- 50 dives on a
2 rebreather before I could go from normoxic to be
3 regarded as a trimix user of the rebreather.
4 Q. Is it possible to get the trimix
5 certification for the Megalodon rebreather in a
6 single day?
7 A. For what starting point?
8 Q. One day?
9 A. Really not a moxied diver.
10 Q. One 24-hour period?
11 A. Was he really qualified -- how do you
12 really achieve the qualification requirements for
13 normoxic use? So context is very important.
14 Here I know from the deposition of Jill
15 Heinerth that all three certificates were issued on
16 the same day. But I don't -- but the training must
17 have been over weeks before that and he gave the
18 certificates out in one day. If he's trying to get
19 objective of the trimix diver on unit, you normally
20 do quite a few dives and the end of training, you
21 get that certificate.
22 Q. Are you making an assumption on that?
23 A. Jill Heinerth didn't detail the number of
24 dives but she issued that certificate so she was
25 actually quite comfortable. Jill Heinerth --
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1 Q. Doctor, are you making an assumption? Do
2 you have facts to support that statement that he
3 must have done quite a few dives if he got three
4 certifications in one day? Do you have any facts?
5 Have you seen a dive log?
6 A. The only two facts I've seen, Jill
7 Heinerth's deposition, she's extremely dogmatic
8 about the need for training. Therefore, from her
9 deposition, it implies that she would not just print
10 certificates. That's one fact.
11 Second fact is he has the Megalodon
12 certification.
13 And, three, when he dived the O2ptima, he
14 had very good buoyancy control. That is not picked
15 up in an instant on a rebreather. It takes a bit of
16 time, particularly if you're used to a lot of
17 open-circuit diving. Open-circuit diving, you have
18 to start gaining buoyancy control.
19 Q. Well, we're not talking about buoyancy
20 control. We're only talking about what factual
21 information --
22 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor, I would like the
23 witness to be able to finish his answer.
24 THE COURT: Right, to the question posed.
25 So ask the question, and if we can just kind of
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1 answer what he's asking, and we'll move it
2 along. Your attorney is going to get to have a
3 chance to redirect.
4 BY MR. CONCANNON:
5 Q. Right. The question was -- and I think --
6 and I'm certain you've answered it: What factual
7 information do you have to make the assumption that
8 Mr. Skiles completed all of the required diving and
9 training to get advanced-level certification on the
10 Megalodon? And your testimony was that because Jill
11 Heinerth is dogmatic about training and she issued
12 three certifications to him in one day.
13 So you're now making -- extrapolating that
14 out to say that she must have given him the
15 training? That's your assumption?
16 A. Well, I believe that she gave him the
17 training. She stated she did. And she --
18 Mr. Skiles certainly had good buoyancy control on a
19 rebreather.
20 Q. And your opinion that Mr. Skiles certainly
21 had good buoyancy control is based on what
22 information?
23 A. First of all, his interest was in cave
24 diving, which is vital of that buoyancy control.
25 Second I went through the video many times. He had
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1 good buoyancy control on that rebreather.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. He was also able to clear the water in the
4 hoses very well, and that does take a little bit of
5 experience.
6 Q. Okay. Let's talk about your training with
7 scuba.
8 A. Please.
9 Q. You received your initial what we call
10 open water training certification from the British
11 Sub-Aqua Club in 1979, correct?
12 A. That's right.
13 Q. And then you received a trimix
14 certification to allow you to do decompression
15 diving to 100 meters between 1996 and 1999, correct?
16 A. I'm trying to remember the date. There's
17 lots of courses in between. So mostly in the second
18 half of the '90s because diving -- technical diving
19 was starting to come in. So I had get ahold of new
20 certifications.
21 So there's a whole lot of courses for
22 extended range and those sorts of things. But the
23 100-meter trimix is an interesting certificate. You
24 get, first of all, 60-meter certificate in 1999.
25 Q. Okay.
(888)811-3408
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1 A. And only after you go to whole lot of
2 trimix dives do they then give you the 100-meter
3 certificate. When I got my 100-meter certificate,
4 it had the same date as my 60, but I only got it
5 about a year later because I've been doing so many
6 very deep dives, diving down to 550 feet, quite
7 serious dives.
8 Q. When you say "we," you didn't actually
9 dive to 550 feet?
10 A. No, I was the safety diver on that, deep
11 safety diver on that. So, I organized expeditions
12 for very deep diving. Hundreds. Very deep diving.
13 The focus was on finding new shipwrecks and diving
14 down on behalf of relatives who lost people in the
15 wreck because the British Navy had an issue of
16 denying the wreck.
17 So we filmed that and we provided a
18 service to the relatives and then the government
19 they responded by putting the names on memorials
20 where people had been buried. There were not names.
21 People were driving past graveyards for years
22 without realizing that their husband was buried
23 there.
24 And when we went to prove the wreck
25 existed, prove what happened, and then, for example,
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1 John Major, prime minister, put a memorial next to
2 it; Royal Navy did a proper service and named
3 people. So that's what we did for quite a few
4 wrecks and many of these were very, very deep.
5 So I was organized expeditions. I was a
6 safety officer. We had no fatal accidents on those
7 expeditions.
8 There were three groups in the UK at the
9 time doing similar type of expeditions and we were
10 the only ones who had a clean record of doing it
11 safely. And I was a deep safety diver on these.
12 I transferred to using rebreathers very
13 early because there were a number of cylinders --
14 you're doing dives with eight cylinders. Just the
15 tubes sitting on my back were 220 hundreds weight 63
16 kilo, just two cylinders. Very difficult.
17 Q. You received two certifications for
18 rebreather diving, right? You're certified to use
19 two units?
20 A. I received certification for the Drager
21 rebreather.
22 Q. Stop. Drager rebreather, semi-closed --
23 SCR, correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. In what year?
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1 A. 2000, March 2000.
2 Q. And then you received a certification to
3 dive with the Inspiration closed-circuit rebreather,
4 also in 2000, right?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And the jury will hear from Martin Parker,
7 who manufacturers that rebreather, next week, okay?
8 A. Fine.
9 Q. And since 2000, in the 16 years since,
10 have you received certifications to dive on any
11 other rebreathers, other than your own?
12 A. No. I have dived many, many rebreathers.
13 Q. You've dived many, many rebreathers
14 without training on their units?
15 A. In some cases, I'm with an instructor for
16 those units. But not trained me. He said, "Alex,
17 this is the rebreather. Here's the manual
18 handset -- here's the handset, and anything else you
19 need to know?" And you go into the water.
20 Other ones, like the Megalodon, were
21 bought and tested and then dived. So the answer to
22 your question is training -- I didn't receive
23 certificates on the other units, but I did often get
24 some short instruction on those units. Or, in the
25 case of Megalodon, I tested it in chamber for
(888)811-3408
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1 several weeks before diving it.
2 Q. Doctor, when you dive on another
3 manufacturer's rebreather that you have not received
4 formal training or certification, do you understand
5 that you are taking a risk?
6 A. I believe I know rebreathers so well I can
7 go through that rebreather and see exactly how it
8 works. And the tests I do before I dive it may
9 often give me more information than the manufacturer
10 has. I do go through the user manual, and I do
11 chamber test the rebreather.
12 So, no, I don't believe there is a risk.
13 I know what the rebreather is doing. And I make
14 appropriate provisions, safety provisions, to dive
15 that safely.
16 Q. So, just so I'm clear, when you dive a
17 rebreather without formal training or certification
18 approved by the manufacturer, you don't believe
19 you're taking any risk?
20 A. No, I don't believe I'm taking any more
21 risk than the person who has the certification.
22 Q. And that is because of your advanced level
23 of experience with rebreathers over the last 16
24 years?
25 A. Rebreathers and testing rebreathers.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. Okay. So you're not the same as me, are
2 you?
3 A. We're both humans.
4 Q. Well, that's clear.
5 But you make a decision, don't you, that,
6 based upon your training and experience, if you want
7 to dive the O2ptima, for instance, that you're
8 qualified to do that?
9 A. Well, I'm not qualified by the
10 manufacturer. But I'm able to dive that and test
11 particular things I want to see whether they occur
12 or not, how they occur on the O2ptima, and I can do
13 that safely.
14 I have to put in place various provisions.
15 I had to pull, call, and stop during dives because
16 other safety provisions were not in place properly
17 with the O2ptima.
18 Q. Well, we're going to talk about that.
19 You've made a grand total of six dives on the
20 O2ptima?
21 A. Dove six times on the O2ptima, yes.
22 Q. Dove six times on the O2ptima.
23 You are not certified to used the O2ptima,
24 correct?
25 A. By the manufacturer.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. Pardon me?
2 A. By the manufacturer.
3 Q. By the manufacturer.
4 All six of your dives on the O2ptima
5 rebreather were less than two months ago.
6 A. Correct. I received that rebreather in
7 early March.
8 Q. And you were initially contacted to be an
9 expert in this case three years ago?
10 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor, I would object
11 to --
12 THE COURT: You guys need to approach?
13 MR. HERMAN: You know, it's fine, Your
14 Honor. We don't need to approach.
15 THE COURT: Are you sure?
16 MR. HERMAN: Yes.
17 THE COURT: Okay.
18 MR. HERMAN: I don't want to slow things
19 down.
20 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
21 A. The answer to these questions are: Yes, I
22 was contacted first three years ago, but I could not
23 do any detailed investigation until we were
24 authorized in December, late December, and then I
25 could not complete any investigation until I had the
(888)811-3408
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1 unit. And that only occurred in March.
2 So that's where the -- I was given notice
3 of this to make sure staff were available to assist
4 in doing the test and set up lab and so on and to go
5 through this in a thorough manner.
6 But I received this only -- the
7 instruction to go and do the -- initiate the
8 investigation only in December, just before
9 Christmas.
11 Q. Okay. We'll get into your analysis and
12 your methodology shortly. But I just want to make
13 sure the jury understands and I understand that
14 you've never been certified on an O2ptima and your
15 first dives were made in March 2016?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Who was the instructor that you made those
18 dives with?
19 A. I didn't -- well, first of all, I arranged
20 with the dive center and there was two other divers
21 there. So I was not diving with a O2ptima
22 instructor, I was diving with open-circuit divers to
23 make sure all things were safe.
24 And after the safety provisions were all
25 in place for both dives -- I will describe in detail
(888)811-3408
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1 if you wish -- after I was not happy with the safety
2 provisions we transferred to pool dive and dived
3 that in a pool because the things I was looking for
4 weren't actually dependent on the depth. Ideally I
5 would have liked further time to have actually gone
6 and done the exact same profile but the safety
7 provisions were not in place.
8 Q. So you took certain safety precautions
9 before you dove the O2ptima rebreather without
10 training and certification, even though you've had
11 16 years of experience looking at rebreathers,
12 diving rebreathers, designing rebreathers, and
13 manufacturing rebreathers, correct?
14 A. Yes. I wanted further safety provisions
15 on that unit.
16 Q. Okay. And one of those safety provisions
17 was the use of a bailout, correct?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And is it true sort of the -- you tried to
20 do an ocean dive in April off the coast of Portugal
21 and you aborted the dive because your bailout wasn't
22 working?
23 A. Yes. The regulator had just come back
24 from service. It worked on land and it did not work
25 straight away in the water. Therefore, I aborted
(888)811-3408
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1 the dive.
2 Q. Okay. Now, did the O2ptima rebreather
3 that you were using for your six dives -- so all the
4 six dives were in a swimming pool, correct?
5 A. Yes. After the sea dives didn't take
6 place, I moved to the swimming pool and dived it
7 there.
8 And I had a list of things I was trying to
9 test, and I was able to do those in a pool.
10 Q. And was that -- did you have another diver
11 with you in the pool?
12 A. No. I had my wife there and the pool is
13 pretty safe. I know if the unit is not injecting
14 oxygen because the counterlung would have collapsed
15 straight away after awhile. So I'll know --
16 regardless of what the rebreather is doing in a
17 pool, I would know if there's a problem with the
18 PPO2 not matching and also kept injecting gas,
19 periodically, to make sure it was all doing its
20 proper job.
21 Q. Well, this is important because you're
22 here giving opinions to the jury. And did you test
23 those opinions to make sure they were valid?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Okay. And did you test your opinions in
(888)811-3408
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1 the water to make sure they were valid?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. You did?
4 A. Only some of those relate to water tests.
5 Other things relate to the lab tests, others
6 modeling. So, if you're talking about water, I had
7 a laminated list of things I wanted to test, and I
8 went through the list.
9 Q. MOV1217.
10 I want you to describe to the jury -- you
11 filmed at least two of your tests for the -- for
12 this case, correct?
13 A. We had an issue with the camera. The
14 GoPro froze. It had a tiny of water in the case,
15 and it froze, so that was a pain. So I got
16 somebody's cell phone, put it inside two plastic
17 bags. All I wanted to do was record the sound.
18 Q. Okay.
19 A. Please hold this in the pool, and it
20 should pick up sound.
21 Q. So the people could verify your testing,
22 did you film any of the work you did in the lab?
23 A. We have photographic evidence.
24 Q. Did you film it?
25 A. No, we don't normally in the lab.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. 1217, please.
2 (The video clip was played.)
3 BY MR. CONCANNON:
4 Q. So what are you trying to verify with this
5 test?
6 A. Well, that is simply while putting the
7 phone inside the bag to look at sound recording
8 only, trying to get sound recordings of what the
9 sounds were. That's set up and simply hit the
10 record button when the subsequent films are the
11 actual recording of the sound. So first we were
12 trying to get the setpoint.
13 Q. Is that it? Doctor, this is the testing
14 you did to verify sounds that you heard on the tape
15 of Mr. Skiles' final dive, correct?
16 A. Yes. I wanted to know what the sounds of
17 that particular rebreather, what is the different
18 from ALV sound, and ALV and ADV and the oxygen
19 injector.
20 Q. Where were you when you did these dives?
21 In a pool?
22 A. In Portugal in a pool.
23 Q. In an apartment complex pool?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Your home or office?
(888)811-3408
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1 A. A house with a pool in the front.
2 Q. Okay. And you put a cell phone in a bag
3 to record it?
4 A. Because the GoPro had froze. And it
5 wouldn't come back out of being froze. So cell
6 phones worked down to about 60 feet if you put them
7 inside a bag.
8 Here, we were weren't interested in video,
9 we were interested in sound. GoPro picks up sound
10 quite well. And the camera -- the cell phones also
11 pick up sound. But you hear it's knocking, you hear
12 some knocking sounds, sometimes with the GoPro as
13 well.
14 I had a cylinder with me and the cylinder
15 was to be the same as the camera. The first -- some
16 of the first dives I did --
17 Q. Just asking about the filming. Did you
18 film any other -- did you try to repeat the tests
19 with the GoPro so you could produce --
20 A. I had to get that back to Mr. Herman for
21 the deposition, so I didn't have time to get a new
22 GoPro. I tried buying a GoPro where I was, but they
23 weren't any available.
24 Q. Okay.
25 A. So had -- it now works, the GoPro, same
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1 GoPro. It just simply -- it goes into funny mode.
2 If charged too long, it resets itself. And I
3 thought it was due to the water inside the case, but
4 it was actually just a drop of water. It's just the
5 GoPro.
6 (The video clip concluded.)
7 BY MR. CONCANNON:
8 Q. Are you being paid for your expert
9 services in this case?
10 A. Yes. We charge for our services. We
11 charge a rate which covers our costs. Our normal
12 rate which we charge out -- my charge-out rate is
13 normally 1,850 a day, and we have a special rate of
14 550 a day which is designed to cover our costs. So
15 we have a lot of costs running design business.
16 Q. You're being paid 1,850 euros a day?
17 A. Actually, it's -- I would have to -- on
18 the last job we did, it was in pounds. Euros
19 dropped down a bit. So it's 1,850 pounds that
20 was -- we normally charge for our work. When
21 there's -- there's only two concessionary rates we
22 have. One is for accident studies. When we do
23 accident studies, we reduced it down to 550.
24 Q. Pounds?
25 A. Pounds. Which we need to cover our costs.
(888)811-3408
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1 The second is the design centers are hard
2 to run. And these strategic product, we also have
3 the same concessionary rate. Below that, we lose
4 money.
5 And there's a third cost of the
6 concessionary rate.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. And we -- so -- because it don't make any
9 profit on this, it just cover costs, you have an
10 opportunity cost, which can be quite substantial.
11 So we do a concessionary rate for accident
12 studies, concessionary rate for some strategic
13 products where we have product and the customer is
14 paying us to modify the product. And the standard
15 rate is 1850.
16 You mentioned euro. The Navy projects
17 have been done that way, in euro. I would have to
18 check the amounts. Normally it's pounds.
19 Q. So the British pound currently is trading
20 at something more than the dollar, correct?
21 A. It's always more than the dollar.
22 Q. It's always more than the dollar. Maybe
23 $1.50, right?
24 A. 1.40 at the moment, but it varies over a
25 range of up to 1.90, down to 1.34, I think its
(888)811-3408
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1 worse.
2 Q. So on the day you did this testing you
3 were being paid about $2,200?
4 A. No, because the day we were doing testing
5 at concessionary rate, 550.
6 Q. So 550 pounds, which is about 750, $800?
7 A. That's right.
8 Q. MLV1234.
9 You only produced four movies, right?
10 A. We only produced one. One film was to try
11 to get the sounds, find out what the sounds are.
12 The purpose in my report of doing those tests was to
13 find out two things, actually. One was what were
14 the sounds; and, second, how much water is produced
15 in 82-minute dive? And so I did two 82-minute
16 dives.
17 Q. Where are the films of those dives?
18 A. That's where the GoPro problem is, I
19 offered to Mr. Herman to repeat those with GoPro
20 working. In fact, I made arrangements with the dive
21 center, had another diver on the boat with another
22 camera system, but I had to abort that dive because
23 the bailout was not working. I was not prepared to
24 dive with that rebreather after examining it. I do
25 need the bailout to dive that rebreather safely.
(888)811-3408
1788
1 Q. Right. Did the rebreather that you were
2 supplied with have an onboard bailout?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did the rebreather Mr. Skiles was using
5 have an onboard bailout?
6 A. No.
7 Q. In 2008, did Dive Rite sell the rebreather
8 with an onboard bailout?
9 A. I understand they provide a regulator --
10 open-circuit regulator from the -- from the diluent
11 cylinder, but I don't know if that was supplied to
12 this unit.
13 Q. You don't know?
14 A. I don't know that. They don't have a
15 bailout valve. That's a key item.
16 Q. Well, we're asking about the onboard
17 bailout which would be attached to the diluent
18 bottle, was that part of the standard feature sold
19 in 2008?
20 A. I don't know for certain. They
21 certainly -- I know that some units were sold that
22 way, but I don't know if every unit was sold that
23 way.
24 Q. In your thorough investigation of this
25 mishap, did you consider the deposition testimony of
(888)811-3408
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1 Jason Sapp?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And who is Jason Sapp?
4 A. He was the person that owned the
5 rebreather Mr. Skiles used on this dive.
6 Q. And did Mr. Skiles own the rebreather?
7 A. No. He borrowed it from Mr. Sapp.
8 Q. And was Mr. Skiles responsible for
9 maintaining the rebreather?
10 A. It looked like he was diving straight from
11 Mr. Sapp on the cylinders. It looked like Mr. Sapp
12 had those inspected some time previously, quite some
13 time previously.
14 Q. Two-and-a-half years previously?
15 A. Yes. So it looks like the -- at least
16 two-and-a-half years previously. So it looked like
17 Mr. Sapp maintained the rebreather.
18 Q. I see.
19 A. Mr. Skiles borrowed it.
20 Q. And prior to -- did you consider the
21 deposition testimony of Steve Straatsma?
22 A. Can I just double-check? I certainly
23 remember his name --
24 Q. Sure.
25 A. But I want to double check --
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. Are you looking at a list of information
2 you reviewed in --
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. -- preparing for your expert work?
5 A. Yes. I certainly didn't review it under
6 the witness statements. And I didn't review it
7 under the depositions.
8 Q. Do you know who Steve Straatsma is?
9 A. He was the person who sold the rebreather
10 to Mr. Sapp, I understand. And the -- and so
11 Mr. Straatsma bought it from Dive Rite and then sold
12 it to Mr. Sapp.
13 Q. Do you know if -- but you didn't consider
14 anything -- any statements or testimony from
15 Mr. Straatsma, did you?
16 A. I'm just checking.
17 Q. Okay. Take your time.
18 A. There were thousands of pages here that I
19 went through. And my job in going through that data
20 just to pull out facts relevant to this case.
21 Q. Just take a look and tell us the answer,
22 please.
23 A. I don't think I went through anything
24 separate from -- by Mr. Straatsma. I saw the
25 testimony of Mr. Saap who described his purchase
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1 from Mr. Straatsma, and then how he was contacted by
2 Mr. Skiles.
3 Q. So you don't know the original
4 configuration of the equipment when Mr. Straatsma
5 bought it from Dive Rite, do you?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did you see the testimony of Mr. Sapp that
8 he gave Wes Skiles two off-board bailout tanks to
9 take with him for this filming project?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Do you know if Mr. Skiles was using those
12 off-board bailout cylinders on the day of his last
13 dive?
14 A. He was not. They were using common or
15 shared bailout cylinder.
16 Q. So when Mr. Skiles ascended to the surface
17 alone, he did not have a bailout, correct?
18 A. He had three bailout options.
19 Q. No, did he have a bailout tank?
20 A. He did not have a bailout tank on him that
21 he wouldn't have used anyway because the displays
22 weren't normal.
23 Q. Did he have the bailout tank that you had
24 when you made the dive off Portugal last month that
25 you aborted?
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1 A. No, he didn't.
2 Q. MOV1234.
3 (The video clip was played.)
4 BY MR. CONCANNON:
5 Q. What are you doing in this test?
6 A. I just wanted to see the rebreather on its
7 own in the water, which attitude it goes into. And
8 I was doing an ALV test. So the ALV free flows.
9 So this is the setup I did for that test.
10 I've got the valve shut in this case, and then did a
11 second test with the valve open. I wanted to see in
12 this test at what position the rebreather is in, how
13 it stands in the water.
14 And I noticed that the hose floats up as
15 expected, and the counterlungs are getting pushed up
16 as if they're on the diver normally, so this is a
17 preparation for doing ALV free flow.
18 Q. You put the rebreather in the water
19 without a body attached to it, right?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. Did you attempt to take the rebreather
22 mouthpiece out of your mouth and see what happened
23 when you were in it?
24 A. I did.
25 Q. And where is the film of that?
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1 A. I don't have the film of that. Because,
2 again, the GoPro.
3 Q. Oh, this is the GoPro mishap again, right?
4 A. That's right.
5 Q. Okay. And one of your opinions is that --
6 do you have an opinion about whether or not the
7 diluent bottle on Mr. -- on how that diluent bottle
8 came to be empty?
9 A. Yes. It's quite simple.
10 Q. I see. Just want to know if you have it.
11 Now I'm going to ask you how you tested it.
12 A. Right. First of all, in the evidence, the
13 ALV valve, the ADV valve was on. So the ADV was on
14 throughout the whole dive. The diluent cylinder was
15 empty at the end of the dive.
16 Now, the diver would not be using diluent
17 gas. You don't need diluent at all after the
18 initial descent normally.
19 And so cylinder was empty.
20 Because the mouthpiece floats upwards, you
21 get a differential pressure and I was interested in
22 what that distance was because that then tells you
23 what the cracking pressure is. And if that distance
24 it more than the cracking pressure, then the ALV
25 will free flow.
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1 So the -- that distance is critical. Very
2 often in rebreather accidents one finds the ALV has
3 free flowed and the diluent is empty simply because
4 the gas goes around the loop with that differential
5 pressure between the mouthpiece and the position of
6 the ALV.
7 Now, some mouthpieces don't float upwards
8 that's why I needed to check. If it doesn't flow
9 upwards, it wouldn't free flow. But this mouthpiece
10 does float upwards, as you can see.
11 Q. And it always free flows; is that your
12 testimony?
13 A. If the ALV valve is open and you have gas
14 on, and the mouthpiece is out of the diver's mouth,
15 by more than cracking pressure it free flows.
16 I explained there's a certain pressure you
17 need to suck the valve in by, which is quite low.
18 And so once it's about 15 centimeters higher, it
19 just free flows.
20 It's the same as on an open circuit. If
21 you're used to open circuit and you put the open
22 circuit in water, the tube to the surface, it will
23 free flow. And the tube on the open circuit needs
24 only to be a matter of about 6 or 7 centimeters and
25 it will free flow. On a rebreather, the cracking
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1 pressure is more than 7. Normally the tube has to
2 be a bit longer.
3 To check that it free flows you're
4 checking, does the mouthpiece float up. Some
5 mouthpieces are weighted and they suck down, and
6 then free flow does not occur.
7 There's another issue of the position of
8 the body. When descending, if the mouthpiece is out
9 as you're descending, then it's likely to be away
10 because you've both got the body moving through the
11 water as well.
12 When Mr. Skiles' body was recovered it was
13 discovered in prone position on the reef with the
14 mouthpiece out and the cylinder empty.
15 Q. Prone position on the reef. Was Mr.
16 Skiles face up, facedown, sideways?
17 A. I understand he was -- we went through
18 that methodically and did this, I think he was
19 facedown, but I can't remember. I checked this when
20 I went through the depositions against a checklist.
21 But the main thing, prone position with
22 cylinder empty. My purpose is going through to
23 identify the key facts as they relate to what is the
24 status of the rebreather. And when it was
25 recovered, that cylinder was empty.
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1 Q. Here's my artistic training at work here.
2 Did you consider the deposition of Scott
3 Braunsroth?
4 A. Not -- I only read a portion of that. I
5 was not able to read all of that because the format
6 of the file.
7 Q. All right. So, you've got this mishap
8 took place, two divers underwater on closed circuit,
9 correct, they're not producing any bubbles that are
10 going up to the surface?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. One diver on open circuit, and he's
13 producing bubbles that are going up to the surface,
14 correct?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. And those bubbles would be visible to the
17 two people on the boat who are supposed to be
18 watching the divers underwater, correct?
19 A. If they're looking there, yes.
20 Q. If they were looking. Well, you've got a
21 captain and another person on the surface. Is it
22 your testimony, sir, that these gentlemen are not
23 under any obligation to check to make sure that the
24 divers are safe?
25 A. The skipper or captain of the vessel is
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1 not involved with diving. One of the divers there,
2 Mr. Englehardt, was support diver.
3 Q. He was?
4 A. And he was out of the water. There is a
5 question of having support divers, yes.
6 Mr. Braunsroth was not in the water and, therefore,
7 he really didn't have any --
8 THE COURT: Dr. Deas, we're having a hard
9 time hearing you. Can you just try to stay on
10 that microphone.
11 A. Mr. Braunsroth is not in the water, so he
12 would have a minimal effect. But the -- Englehardt
13 was, I understand, going up to -- he was going to
14 get supplies to get things.
15 So if he's actively doing something in the
16 boat, he would not be looking out for bubbles.
18 Q. Does the captain of a ship have to be
19 responsible for the passengers of the vessel?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Does the captain of a ship have to look
22 out for obstacles that the ship or the boat might
23 hit?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Would the captain of the ship want to know
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1 where the divers were at all times so that he didn't
2 strike the divers, perhaps, if they surfaced?
3 A. He would want to, but on a rebreather,
4 that's not normally possible.
5 Q. But it is for open circuit, isn't it?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. So, again, is it your testimony that the
8 two men on the surface had no obligation to watch to
9 see where the divers were underwater?
10 A. That's a question outside my sphere of
11 competence. That's a legal question. But -- that's
12 a legal question.
13 Q. But as a person who organizations
14 deep-diving expeditions to 500 feet and make sure
15 they're conducted safely, don't you have any
16 experience in making sure that the people
17 underwater --
18 A. I do.
19 Q. -- on your expeditions are safe?
20 A. I have people in the water to check that.
21 Q. You have people in the water to check
22 that?
23 A. I need communications with the diver and
24 people in the water. Trying to ensure the safety by
25 someone sitting in a boat is very difficult.
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1 Q. While Mr. Skiles -- you agree that at some
2 point between 63 feet and the surface Mr. Skiles
3 lost consciousness?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Where did happen?
6 A. On the dive about 30 feet.
7 Q. About 30 feet up the anchor line or the
8 line of the boat was when we had the loss of
9 consciousness.
10 And then Mr. Skiles, unfortunately, sank
11 to the bottom, right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And it's your testimony that Mr. Skiles,
14 his mouthpiece came out, and it was free flowing
15 gas?
16 A. When he was descending -- once the
17 mouthpiece came out, it would float upwards as shown
18 in the photo. It would float upwards and it would
19 free flow gas.
20 Q. Free flow gas. Right.
21 And those bubbles would go to the surface,
22 wouldn't they?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And they would expand on the their way to
25 the surface, wouldn't they?
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1 A. They do.
2 Q. And the two men on the surface, if they
3 were paying attention to the divers underwater,
4 would see one set of bubbles in one place for
5 Mr. Englehardt and another set of bubbles from some
6 other source somewhere between Englehardt and the
7 boat, correct?
8 A. That's what I'm saying. Mr. Englehardt
9 was not in the boat.
10 Q. Pardon me?
11 A. He was not in the water.
12 Q. When Mr. Skiles made the descent,
13 Mr. Englehardt was not in the water; that's your
14 testimony?
15 A. I did not see any evidence that
16 Mr. Englehardt was in the water.
17 Q. I see.
18 A. The two divers were certainly in the
19 water, two Poseidon divers. And the Poseidon divers
20 in the water, Mr. Skiles had the loss of
21 consciousness, and was only found later by -- and
22 then Dr. Konow took the lead in the rescue of
23 Mr. Skiles, left the camera on the bottom and
24 brought Mr. Skiles to the surface.
25 Q. Mr. Konow by himself?
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1 A. No. The other two divers with him. He
2 commented that Mr. Englehardt was getting perhaps in
3 the way a bit. Mr. Huskey and Dr. Konow rescued --
4 or brought Mr. Skiles to the surface. And Dr. Konow
5 that was the prime person doing that. He had most
6 rebreather experience as well.
7 Q. I'll give you a chance here, Doctor. Is
8 it your testimony that there were two divers in the
9 water when Mr. Skiles lost consciousness, or three?
10 A. When I read there were two divers in the
11 water, there was no evidence -- no divers saw
12 Mr. Skiles lose consciousness.
13 Q. Two divers in the water. Are they both on
14 rebreathers?
15 A. Yes. Mr. Huskey is on the Poseidon and so
16 was Dr. Konow both on -- they called a Cis-Lunar
17 MKVI, Poseidon Discovery, same rebreather.
18 Q. So, Doctor, you're here to testify as an
19 expert in, what, just mathematical modeling and
20 engineering?
21 A. No. In the investigation of the root
22 cause of mishap. My focus is purely --
23 Q. You can stop there.
24 Are you here to testify about -- you're
25 here to investigate what happened to Mr. Skiles when
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1 he was underwater, right? That's what you're trying
2 to help the jury understand?
3 A. I was focused on what caused the mishap.
4 That's my brief to investigate and determine what
5 was the root cause, the trigger of the root cause
6 disabling injury in this mishap.
7 Q. And to do an accident investigation,
8 wouldn't you agree that it's important -- first of
9 all, to do an accident investigation, wouldn't you
10 agree that it's important to look at all the
11 evidence?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All right. Before you get to mathematical
14 modeling, before you get to pool testing with a cell
15 phone or anything else, you need to know what
16 happened on the dive, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And you look at the facts that are -- and
19 the best factual information about what happened in
20 a mishap is often the information that's gathered at
21 the time, correct?
22 A. Absolutely.
23 Q. And it could be the statement of witnesses
24 and data from dive computers and weather conditions
25 and surface conditions. All of that information is
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1 something that's important to consider, right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Okay. And are you telling us that --
4 okay.
5 A. There's a lot of data to go through,
6 there's thousands of pages here. So going through
7 the data and information, I tried to extract out
8 anything that pertains to the mishap. Anything that
9 doesn't pertain, exclude. So does this pertain to
10 the mishap, yes or no. No, pass on to the next
11 piece. Otherwise, there's too much information to
12 consider.
13 Q. Does the statements to the police and the
14 sworn testimony of a person on the surface pertain
15 to the investigation?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Does the statement of an open-circuit
18 diver that was with this group and where he was and
19 when he got in the water, when he got out of the
20 water, what he saw, what he did, pertain to this
21 investigation?
22 A. Yes. Although the rebreather divers would
23 know much more. Because they are fused rebreathers.
24 So when Dr. Konow refers to things he sees, he has
25 more experience, much more rebreather experience,
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1 done a lot of rebreather dives.
2 Q. Okay. Well, according to your theory,
3 bubbles are escaping from the rebreather, expanding
4 and heading to the surface, correct?
6 Q. And nobody reports seeing bubbles breaking
7 the surface while Mr. Skiles is separated from the
8 group, do they?
9 A. That's correct. They're often not very
10 obvious. If you're following open-circuit divers,
11 sometimes you miss them. They can look like a
12 little bit of foam as the waves crest over from the
13 sea. If you're not looking for it, then you don't
14 see it.
15 You have to look around and find where the
16 open-circuit divers are. When it free flows, you
17 get more on the surface, you see a white patch on
18 the surface.
19 Q. Right. It's obvious, isn't it?
20 A. If you're looking for it, yes. You've got
21 a white patch that will surface.
22 Q. Wouldn't it be something significant if
23 you've got only one open circuit diver, potentially
24 in the water or not, or if the open circuit diver is
25 out of the water and you suddenly see bubbles from
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1 one of three rebreather divers, isn't that something
2 that's strange?
3 A. If you saw bubbles. If the divers on the
4 surface saw bubbles, I would expect the diver to get
5 in the water immediately and go to the diver.
6 Clearly, they didn't. I would expect a safety diver
7 on the boat to immediately jump in the water.
8 When you do expeditions as well as divers
9 in the water, you would also have a support diver on
10 the surface. And if he sees anything on the surface
11 that gives him concern, his job is to immediately
12 act.
13 Q. And were the divers underwater, whether
14 it's two or three, paying attention to Mr. Skiles as
15 he was ascending?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Would you expect the divers underwater to
18 have seen clouds of bubbles going to the surface for
19 some period of time?
20 A. No, no.
21 Q. Why not?
22 A. Because they're 30 feet away. If you look
23 in the film visibility -- first of all, with water
24 calm, they're 30 feet away. And they'll also be
25 separated would be next to the anchor chain, so
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1 you've got a bit of separation. Visibility is quite
2 good, but it's not fantastic. It's not like cave
3 diving where you can see the other end of the room
4 and double that. So there's limited visibility.
5 They didn't see Mr. Skiles lose consciousness.
6 Q. Were the divers on the bottom paying
7 attention to what each other were doing when they
8 were on the bottom?
9 A. In the video, they seemed to be paying
10 attention to what they're doing in terms of trying
11 to catch this grouper rather than anything else.
12 Q. And by your testimony, Mr. Englehardt was
13 acting as a safety diver, correct?
14 A. He was support diver. Didn't seem to act
15 as a safety diver, but a support diver.
16 Q. Do you know Mr. Englehardt's diving
17 qualifications?
18 A. He's an open circuit diver. Again, so
19 much information, I'm trying to remember every piece
20 of it. He was an open circuit diver that day. And
21 when Mr. Skiles was being recovered, Dr. Konow
22 commented that he seemed to be getting in the way a
23 little bit. Too many people around to try to
24 recover the diver.
25 Q. Was that on the surface or underwater?
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1 A. Underwater.
2 Q. Okay. You don't know if any of the divers
3 underwater were rescue divers, do you?
4 A. A rebreather diver is -- any experienced
5 diver is normally a rescue diver because even to get
6 advanced -- to get to master scuba diver, you're
7 normally a rescue diver. And so people normally
8 doing rescue diving course with rebreather training
9 when there's trained how to recover another
10 rebreather diver. But that actually happens in
11 practice. People often don't know what to do.
12 Dr. Konow was by far the most experienced
13 diver there, rebreather diver there. He had 700
14 rebreather dives from his testimony from his
15 deposition. And he took the lead in recovering the
16 diver.
17 Q. So, in Dr. Konow's testimony, you believe
18 that you saw that he had indicated he had done 700
19 rebreather dives?
20 A. In his deposition.
21 Q. 700 rebreather dives is a lot, isn't it?
22 A. It is a lot.
23 Q. He would be a very experienced rebreather
24 diver, wouldn't he?
25 A. That's right.
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1 Q. How many rebreather dives have you done?
2 A. I've logged lots of them, but my total
3 rebreather diving is still only about 900, a
4 thousand dives. 700 is a lot of diving.
5 Q. A lot of rebreather dives.
6 And it's your assumption, or do you know
7 that Dr. Konow is a certified rescue diver?
8 A. I would assume he is. But I do not know.
9 Q. Okay. Is it your assumption, or do you
10 know that Dr. Huskey is a certified rescue diver?
11 A. As he is a rebreather, I would assume that
12 he's been trained in how to rescue another
13 rebreather diver.
14 Q. Do you know how many scuba dives Mr. --
15 Dr. Huskey had made in his entire life prior to this
16 project?
17 A. He had little rebreather experience. The
18 Poseidon he testified was the first rebreather. He
19 had little experience on the rebreather.
20 Q. I asked you about scuba dives.
21 A. I'm sorry, scuba dives? He mentions in
22 his deposition. I cannot remember the number. He
23 had -- looking at the time of his rebreather
24 experience, and he was relatively new to
25 rebreathers. He had far less diving experience. I
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1 think he only had 50 rebreather dives -- sorry, 50
2 open circuit dives. Very small number of open
3 circuit dives, if I recall.
4 Q. And Dr. Huskey was in charge of that
5 project, correct?
6 A. Yes, he was, even though he is, by far,
7 the less experienced diver.
8 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor, I would object on
9 relevance, cumulative and outside the scope.
10 THE COURT: Let's move on.
11 MR. CONCANNON: Okay.
13 Q. What were the surface conditions like on
14 that day?
15 A. Reasonably calm. Used to diving very
16 difficult surface conditions. So looking at the
17 comments, it was just a moderate swale, 3-feet wave
18 conditions. Nothing significant.
19 Q. All right. Would you agree, Doctor, that
20 the accident happened at about 3:00 in the
21 afternoon, or military time 1500?
22 A. I have the time line. If I may just refer
23 to it?
24 Q. Yes, please refer to it.
25 A. Entered the water between 1330 and 1400
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1 hours, and 82 minutes of the dive.
2 Q. Approximately 1500 hours military time?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Which is about 3:00 p.m. Do you know how
5 far offshore the accident occurred?
6 A. They got back on shore I think about 1550,
7 so I didn't look how far they were offshore, but I
8 see they were back on shore by 1550.
9 Q. By 1550, they were back to the Boynton
10 Beach docks?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And they were met by police, correct?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. And did you review the police report?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did you review the statement of Palm Beach
17 County Deputy Sheriff Miller?
18 A. I'm not wonderful on names. Just
19 apologize. I remember the -- I -- I think it was
20 the gentleman who wrote the police report, actually.
21 I'm not very good with names. I remember the first
22 letters usually. I've read the police report. I
23 think that may be the gentleman who wrote the
24 report. But I can't remember exactly.
25 Q. Did you review the United States Coast
(888)811-3408
1811
1 Guard report of this mishap?
2 A. No -- sorry, yes, I had a quick look at
3 it. Quick look at it. It's the police report I
4 looked at in detail.
5 Q. You looked at the police report in detail.
6 Do you recall that a Palm Beach County deputy
7 sheriff was at the scene on or about the time the
8 boat came in before Mr. Skiles and the divers were
9 taken to the hospital?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And do you recall that that deputy sheriff
12 took custody of the dive gear immediately and made
13 sure nobody tampered with it?
14 A. That's right. That's something looked for
15 particularly. He said that he walked to the
16 equipment and that there's a clear chain of custody,
17 nobody had tampered with the equipment and there's
18 no chance the equipment had been substituted because
19 there was only the O2ptima on the boat. So he
20 described having watched it and made sure that it
21 was correctly taken as -- tagged as evidence, no
22 chance of that being from the port to the others it
23 was the O2ptima on the boat. So there's no chance
24 of that rebreather being swapped with another one.
25 Q. At least from the time -- we don't know
(888)811-3408
1812
1 what happened to the O2ptima between the time of the
2 accident and the time they got back to the dock,
3 based on the chain of custody, do we?
4 A. Not based on the chain of custody, other
5 than the report of Dr. Konow and others, no. But
6 they said they didn't touch it.
7 Q. But we know at least by the time Deputy
8 Sheriff Miller arrived, he established a formal
9 chain of custody, right?
10 A. Yes. Correct.
11 Q. And then Crime Scene Investigator
12 Elizabeth Rodon arrived at the scene shortly
13 thereafter, correct?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. And she photographed the equipment
16 immediately, correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Did you look at CSI Rodon's photographs of
19 the equipment at the scene minutes after the
20 accident?
21 A. I do not remember. The photographs -- I
22 focused on the photographs by Ms. Littlefield.
23 Because they were very detailed, and I was
24 interested in the detailed pictures.
25 I cannot remember. I received some things
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1813
1 over a long period of years, so some came much
2 earlier.
3 Q. Would you agree with me, Doctor, that the
4 best evidence of what happened and what the readings
5 on Mr. Skiles' rebreather were at the time of this
6 accident should be reflected in CSI Rodon's photos?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Right? That's the best evidence, isn't
9 it?
10 A. No, only -- I need detailed pictures and I
11 need detail of what's -- external doesn't really
12 know much. Because we have the testimony of
13 Dr. Konow that it was working. I need to know
14 what's happening inside the rebreather, the exact
15 position of valves and things like this. The exact
16 position of the gauges.
17 That information was in Mrs. Littlefield's
18 report and in Mark Derrick's report, it was in the
19 photographs by Mrs. Littlefield. There's a lot of
20 those. There's 460 or so of those.
21 Q. Doctor, you prepared a very, very
22 extensive expert report of your investigation of
23 what happened to Mr. Skiles, correct?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. And there are probably 50 photographs in
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1 there, correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Please go through your report and show me
4 one photograph from CSI Rodon.
5 A. There's none.
6 Q. There's none?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Why not?
9 A. Because as I said, I was looking for the
10 detailed information. And that was from the medical
11 examiner the day after. There had been a clear
12 chain of custody, no tampering of equipment. Even
13 the oxygen cylinder had not been turned off.
14 Q. There's no tampering with the equipment
15 between the time of it being taken into custody
16 until the time Mark Derrick inspects it, correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Mark Derrick inspects it in the presence
19 of law enforcement officers, correct?
20 A. In the presence of Ms. Littlefield.
21 Q. Were there any other law enforcement
22 officers there or only Ms. Littlefield? She's a
23 medical examiner investigator, right?
24 A. Yes. There was another person present. I
25 don't know who that person was.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. Do you believe that Mark Derrick altered
2 the Dive Rite rebreather used by Wes Skiles in any
3 way?
4 A. No. Apart from taking it all apart.
5 Q. Do you believe that Mark Derrick -- do you
6 have any reason to believe that Mark Derrick did
7 anything to destroy evidence or anything nefarious
8 in his inspection of this rebreather?
9 A. No. I found the photographs of
10 Ms. Littlefield very, very helpful; his report
11 helpful and very objective. It was a statement of
12 what they observed. It didn't seem to be an
13 investigation looking for the cause; it was an
14 investigation of what he saw. So he's translating
15 what he saw into his report. He makes a few
16 comments interpreting some of the things he saw.
17 Q. And Mr. Derrick took many, many
18 photographs of his investigation, correct -- the
19 inspection?
20 A. He did. He or Ms. Littlefield.
21 Q. Someone, law enforcement officer or
22 Mr. Derrick?
23 A. Yes, correct.
24 Q. Right. And is it your testimony, Doctor,
25 that those photographs are similar to CSI Rodon's
(888)811-3408
1816
1 photographs?
2 A. I didn't see any significant difference.
3 But I looked at the other photographs much earlier.
4 Q. Tell the jury -- look in your report and
5 tell the jury what the reading on the handset was at
6 the Boynton Beach dock. Start with the primary and
7 then go to the secondary. Please tell the jury what
8 the handsets were minutes after this accident took
9 place. What information were they showing?
10 A. Looking in the police report. In my
11 report, about the police report, I describe how the
12 police report describes six people being present,
13 and it lists the six people that were there.
14 Q. At the dock?
15 A. At the dock.
16 Q. Just identify -- don't read the police
17 report. Just identify who was present at the dock.
18 A. There was the body of Mr. Skiles,
19 Dr. Steve Huskey -- Professor Steve Huskey,
20 Dr. Nicolai Konow, Mr. Don Englehardt, Scott
21 Braunsroth, and Mr. Zizac Vukasir, who I assumed to
22 be Captain Wolf. Doesn't state it, but they refer
23 to Captain Wolf and skipper or captain of the boat,
24 so I'm assuming that is the same person.
25 In it, they state the police report
(888)811-3408
1817
1 controlled the dive equipment and maintains chain of
2 custody. Yeah. And state that the O2ptima used by
3 Mr. Skiles was the only one on the vessel, so it
4 cannot be mixed with any other equipment.
5 Q. What were the readings on the handsets at
6 the dock?
7 A. I don't have that in my report.
8 Q. And you don't have a photograph that was
9 taken of the readings on the handsets at the dock;
10 do you? Is that a yes or no?
11 A. I'm trying to remember, because that
12 information came over a three-year period on this
13 case. So when I did the investigation, I relied on
14 the -- Dr. Konow. I saw handsets which showed .4,
15 .5 and .6 PPO2 at the dock.
16 Q. Can you see these numbers? If these --
17 hypothetically speaking, the primary handset --
18 well, if the primary handset read 3:31 at the dock,
19 what would that mean?
20 A. One second. So, 3:31 I assume is the
21 time. Time is often wrong on these things. 1.4 is
22 the setpoint.
23 Q. 1.4 is the setpoint set by Mr. Skiles for
24 this dive?
25 A. The deeper setpoint.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. The deeper setpoint?
2 A. Yes, because there's surface setpoint and
3 deep setpoint.
4 Q. Well, where is the surface setpoint
5 indicated?
6 A. It's usually on the secondary display. It
7 was .7 on this dive when we went through it.
8 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor, objection. If
9 he's got pictures he wants to show him, but
10 writing numbers to --
11 THE COURT: Overruled. It's a
12 hypothetical right now.
13 MR. HERMAN: It's not, Your Honor. He's
14 actually --
15 THE COURT: Are we going to argue? Do you
16 want to come up and argue with me? I think I
17 would prefer that. Can you guys approach?
18 MR. HERMAN: I'll withdraw the objection.
19 THE COURT: No, I want you --
20 (Sidebar discussion held:)
21 THE COURT: I thought you asked it in the
22 form of a hypothetical.
23 MR. HERMAN: But then he's testifying
24 as -- he's reading the numbers from the police
25 report and saying identify these numbers, but
(888)811-3408
1819
1 he's saying what do these numbers mean on the
2 handset, but he's just written them in a line,
3 not identical to what's on the handset.
4 THE COURT: If you will say,
5 hypothetically, if these were the numbers found
6 on the handset, on an O2ptima rebreather, what
7 would these --
8 MR. SPOHRER: They don't look --
9 MR. HERMAN: They don't look like that.
10 There's certain positions.
11 MR. CONCANNON: He said he reviewed the
12 photographs.
13 THE COURT: Ask him, if I have these, are
14 you able to tell me what these mean if they
15 showed up on an O2ptima. I see what you're
16 saying. The positioning may depend on -- a
17 number may depend --
18 MR. HERMAN: One, two, three; and one,
19 two, three.
20 THE COURT: I remember that.
21 MR. HERMAN: He's just written them.
22 THE COURT: If will you clarify that.
23 (Sidebar concluded.)
24 A. To continue answering your question, the
25 numbers toward the end are the PPO2 figures.
(888)811-3408
1820
1 They're slightly different than those that Dr. Konow
2 saw, but it changes as you move through a rebreather
3 about.
4 So, the rebreather has -- is clearly
5 trying to maintain the setpoint on the surface.
6 They've got a .5, which normally indicates a .5
7 setpoint on the surface.
8 But you've got 1.4 is the deeper setpoint.
9 And then you've got the three oxygen sensors general
10 cell readings --
12 Q. So, Doctor, is it your --
13 A. -- which were about .5.
14 Q. Is it your understanding of the O2ptima
15 rebreather that's the subject of this case
16 manufactured in 2008 --
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- that if the secondary handset showed an
19 alert and 0.5 and then 1.4, that the 0.5 would be
20 the surface setpoint? That's your testimony?
21 A. Depends where you're alerted. I need to
22 see the screen.
23 Normally look at the average of the
24 figures in giving alerts. The actual cell readings
25 here, the .5, .54, .45, so the PPO2 is just under
(888)811-3408
1821
1 .5. But the controller has a 10 percent -- sorry,
2 it has 5 percent margin. So when it sees that the
3 PPO2 is more than 5 percent away from the setpoint,
4 it switches the oxygen on. That level of oxygen
5 indicates that level I would expect to see on the
6 surface.
7 Q. Which number is the one you would expect
8 to see on the surface?
9 A. The numbers at the end. Even with PPO2 of
10 .7, I expect to see those numbers. So the gas not
11 moving around. And so those are quite typical
12 surface figures as with .5 setpoint.
13 Q. Just so this is clear, the last three
14 figures are displayed on the O2ptima handset, these
15 are the sensor readings, the last three figures?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And a sensor reading of 0.42 is a partial
18 pressure of oxygen that's twice the oxygen level
19 we're breathing now?
20 A. Correct.
21 Q. And as the diver descends, that number
22 would increase, correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. And it would increase by how much every
25 33 feet?
(888)811-3408
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1 A. Well, the pressure doubles every 33 feet.
2 So if he's -- how much it increases by depends on
3 how much he metabolizes. So if you start off with
4 this setpoint and you do not add any extra gas, then
5 the pressure is increasing. And so it would then
6 double.
7 Q. So it would double. When the diver gets
8 to 33 feet, the partial pressure, at least on the
9 first sensor reading, would be .82?
11 Q. And the second sensor would be 1.06?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. It's reading .53 on the surface?
15 Q. The third would be 0.90?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. And that -- 0.90 is roughly four and a
18 half times the level of oxygen that you and I are
19 breathing right now?
21 Q. You talked about metabolism. What's the
22 average metabolism, based on your experience, of a
23 diver breathing on a closed-circuit rebreather in
24 warm water --
25 A. Holding a camera.
(888)811-3408
1823
1 Q. -- holding a camera ascending on a line?
2 A. You said ascending.
3 Q. Yes. Well, maybe they're just stationary.
4 A. He's some negative buoyancy, so he's
5 having to thin up the line. About 1.1, 1.2 liters
6 per oxygen.
7 Q. Let's talk about that as far as partial
8 pressure.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. Make the conversion for me, how much
11 oxygen would an average diver who is holding a
12 camera, thinning up a line at a slow rate of ascent
13 metabolize in partial pressure?
14 A. Two different things. One is the volume
15 of oxygen, and the other is the partial pressure of
16 oxygen. So they're like apples and oranges. Can't
17 do a straight comparison.
18 If he would normally be on setpoint of
19 1.4, on the surface you would be .5, .7, that sort
20 of range. You would expect that on surface. If
21 you're deep, you expect the rebreather when it came
22 back on after the water had cleared, it would give
23 1.4. And then as you go up, that would then reduce
24 because you would escape -- gas escaping. And so
25 the PPO2 falls. So at 60 feet --
(888)811-3408
1824
1 Q. Let talk about stationary.
2 A. Okay.
3 Q. Look, this is at 33 feet.
4 A. You may want to put the 60 feet figure
5 there as well.
6 Q. I do. You read my mind. As the diver
7 ascends to 66 feet, with the setpoint of point --
8 just use this from primary, .42, what would the
9 partial pressure of oxygen be at 66 feet?
10 A. It would be three times that.
11 Q. Three times that. So three times .42?
12 A. .42 times 2, then times 3, yes.
13 Q. So 3 times 42 is 126?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. 3 times 53 is 159, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. 3 times 45 is --
18 A. 3 times 45, 1.35.
19 Q. So this would be the partial pressure of
20 oxygen at 66 feet. And we know that Mr. Skiles
21 ascended from roughly 63 feet?
22 A. That's right. And so the rebreather,
23 after the water cleared, comes back on and controls
24 the gas.
25 Q. I'm not getting to your theory yet; I'm
(888)811-3408
1825
1 only getting to partial pressures and where it would
2 be at depth.
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. And then with metabolism, as --
5 A. There's no metabolism. The diver is not
6 breathing from it.
7 Q. Let me finish my question.
8 A. Please.
9 Q. Based on metabolism, divers diving on the
10 bottom, holding a camera, he might be a big husky
11 guy like me, maybe a little taller. What's an
12 average metabolism rate for a diver perhaps just
13 being on the bottom at 66 feet filming a fish?
14 A. 1.1 to 1.2 liter per minute.
15 Q. 1.1 to 1.2 liters per minute?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And if the oxygen is not coming into the
18 rebreather, how much will the partial pressure drop
19 per minute?
20 A. Right. It depends on his fixed depth or
21 if his depth is changing.
22 So, the oxygen has to fall for about ten
23 minutes in order to go from normal setpoint to a
24 setpoint that doesn't sustain life if the oxygen is
25 falling. So you're looking at a point of about 72
(888)811-3408
1826
1 minutes into the dive or so. And at that point, you
2 expect to see a dip, reduction in the bouyancy and,
3 therefore, an increase in depth until the diver
4 corrects it, which is what you see.
5 Q. So, if the water blocks the sensors and it
6 stays on the sensors, the diver isn't going to just
7 suddenly lose consciousness, is he?
8 A. That's correct. It takes quite awhile.
9 It took maybe ten minutes for the oxygen level to go
10 from the safe point of 1.4 down to an unsafe point
11 of .065 to .1.
12 Q. You have the plate with the sensors on it?
13 MR. HERMAN: They're there.
14 MR. CONCANNON: Apologize for the floor.
15 THE COURT: That's fine.
17 Q. So, here we are. This is not the position
18 of the sensors -- well, it could be the position of
19 the sensors if the diver is doing what?
20 A. If he's trying to vent some gas out, he'll
21 go on the left in order to get the gas out of the
22 counterlung. But then remember the unit is
23 stabilized because it's in water. The water has a,
24 like, stabilizing effect on everything. Slows
25 everything down. So now you put that vertical and
(888)811-3408
1827
1 you put it on the table, just look how long the
2 water stays there for. That's pure water.
3 Q. Doctor, if I put this on a table and leave
4 it there, that water could stay there overnight?
5 A. Stay there for long time. But eventually
6 drops off. It does drop off.
7 Q. The water drops off?
8 A. Yeah, the water drops off.
9 Q. Why is that?
10 A. It's mixed with something which is hot.
11 The scrubber is hot.
12 Q. Are you saying that the hot gas or the
13 hot --
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. -- created from the sensor is eventually
16 going to make that water --
17 A. It's related to the scrubber, which is
18 hot, and also the scrubber slightly absorbs water.
19 Remember it's loaded the water. As the water
20 trickles down out of it, bottom, if you get the
21 scrubber, you will find it very slowly absorbs
22 water. And so if I put that like this, stick it
23 here, I'm going to get the scrubber and put it next
24 to it.
25 Q. Let's be accurate about this. It's
(888)811-3408
1828
1 actually in that position, isn't it?
2 A. Well, it's --
3 Q. The diver is kind of head up?
4 A. He's not head up. He's prone. He's not
5 in that position. He's now in that position.
6 Q. Okay. How much water is on that sensor?
7 A. The first, second and third sensors are
8 completely covered.
9 Q. Three sensors. That's right, because the
10 diver is still on his side, right?
11 A. Well, vertical. It didn't make much
12 difference. Remember it's not pure water. He's got
13 equivalent of drain cleaner, he's got sodium
14 hydroxide, potassium hydroxide and calcium hydroxide
15 dissolved in that water.
16 Q. Are you a chemist?
17 A. No, but I've been trained in that
18 particular --
19 Q. Are you a medical doctor?
20 A. Let me say I did O level of chemistry.
21 Q. Tell the jury, please, what "O levels" are
22 in England.
23 A. If you wanted to go on to university, they
24 first of all, get O levels in and then A levels. In
25 Scotland, we have something called national grade
(888)811-3408
1829
1 and then a higher. The O level is in between. If
2 your O level is high, you go straight to university.
3 Halfway between the level which you would leave
4 school at 16 in Scotland, and the level which you go
5 into university. O level is in somewhere in between
6 that. So you get a reasonable education in
7 chemistry. And so the chemistry of this is --
8 Q. Wait, wait. You have a high school
9 level --
10 A. Chemistry. Basic chemistry.
11 Q. Basic high school chemistry?
12 A. Also seen those scrubbers many times and
13 with water in them, and it is slightly sticky. And
14 I demonstrated this to Mr. Herman and I brought the
15 unit over, poured the water on it. It's quite
16 sticky. First you have to look at the device
17 itself. It doesn't flow as easy as water because
18 it's got all these salts.
19 Q. So the sticky water theory is part of your
20 expert opinion, right?
21 A. An intrinsic part, because the facts are
22 that the by elimination, one eliminates the best
23 possibility of failures and then looks at what is
24 left. And the evidence from the medical examiner
25 shows quite a lot of water in that scrubber
(888)811-3408
1830
1 compartment.
2 Q. We'll get to that. Let's stick with the
3 sticky water theory.
4 A. Slightly more sticky than pure water.
5 It's got higher -- a larger viscous radius.
6 Q. I see. When was the -- we just heard
7 yesterday these are the actual sensors that were in
8 Mr. Skiles' rebreather?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And when was the first time you ever held
11 these in your hand?
12 A. Yesterday. I used other sensors which
13 have the same membrane. That's why I said my
14 sensors stuck above that plate, and I then found at
15 the end of the dive, after the dive, they had
16 actually moved below the plate.
17 Q. So, Doctor, this the first time I've ever
18 held these sensors, and I am looking at them just
19 like you are, just --
20 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor, I'm going to
21 object.
22 THE COURT: Sustained.
24 Q. So your sticky water theory, you never
25 tested it with the actual sensors that Mr. Skiles
(888)811-3408
1831
1 used on his rebreather, right?
2 A. No, but I know that the membrane material
3 has not changed since those materials are used
4 because the people from Analytical Industries, they
5 left Teledyne. They were the team that developed
6 the Teledyne sensor, and they kept the -- that
7 membrane material the same. I have the exact spec
8 of that.
9 Q. I'm asking you about these sensors.
10 MR. CONCANNON: May I hand this to the
11 jury to pass down through the jury box?
12 THE COURT: Sure.
13 MR. CONCANNON: If anybody would like to
14 take a look.
16 Q. So you never tested Mr. Skiles' oxygen
17 sensors to do a stickiness test, right?
18 A. No.
19 Q. First time you ever poured water on them
20 was yesterday. And you never tested them. You've
21 been engaged in this case for over three years, and
22 never tested the dropoff rate of the -- whether they
23 were reading oxygen?
24 A. I can't because the sensors are too old to
25 do that.
(888)811-3408
1832
1 Q. What about three years ago?
2 A. I couldn't do that even then. The sensors
3 are too old. I relied on the test of the sensors
4 the day after -- two days after they were recovered.
5 As you walk about shaking that water, obviously some
6 water comes out. To examine those sensors, you pour
7 water on this, you can then adjust the position and
8 then at quite an angle facing down, the water stays
9 there.
10 Q. But you've never done any chemical testing
11 on Mr. Skiles' sensors, have you?
12 A. Well, those particular sensors --
13 obviously I did a very detailed report; did
14 seven-year evaluation of that particular sensor
15 model.
16 Q. Let's talk about Mr. Skiles' sensors.
17 Those are the sensors that supposedly got blocked
18 with sticky water and took this man's life.
19 A. They're -- all material aspects of that
20 sensor are identical to the sensors I used for
21 testing. And I had done a seven-year study on those
22 sensors, on that sensor model.
23 Q. Let's be clear.
24 A. That sensor model, that exact sensor model
25 I did seven-year study, published that study, it's
(888)811-3408
1833
1 been out for years. And that is so thorough, I
2 advised the board level of Analytical Industries in
3 terms of the advice of the divers for use of those
4 sensors. So I know those sensors quite well. But I
5 never touched those physical ones until yesterday.
6 Q. Right. You never tested your theory with
7 these sensors, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. These sensors, other than what we've shown
10 to the jury where you poured water on them from a
11 water bottle, you've never tested your theory on the
12 sensors that Mr. Skiles used?
13 A. It's impossible to test it on those
14 particular sensors on a dive because those sensors
15 are out of date. They do not work anymore.
16 Q. What about the stickiness?
17 A. Stickiness, the material of the membrane
18 is identical to the material of the membrane which I
19 tested.
20 Q. These are the sensors that need to be
21 tested. Would you agree?
22 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor --
23 A. It's impossible to test those because --
25
(888)811-3408
1834
1 BY MR. CONCANNON:
2 Q. Withdraw the question.
3 Was there any reason why you could not
4 verify your expert opinions in this case with these
5 sensors?
6 A. Yes. I asked for where is the equipment,
7 where are the sensors, and so on, and I was not
8 provided them. So I did ask for them. I would have
9 preferred to have them. But I couldn't get them. I
10 went and got sensors that were the same membrane and
11 fitted them.
12 Q. So you asked who to provide you with
13 Mr. Skiles' sensors?
14 A. Asked Mr. Herman to please find where the
15 equipment is and please try and get it. And when he
16 reported that he could not do so, I then asked him
17 to purchase the exact same model. He found when he
18 tried to do that, it's -- he didn't succeed with
19 them.
20 So I asked one of my staff to find
21 rebreathers. The staff found, almost straightaway,
22 three, four rebreathers for sale, same model, and
23 asked Mr. Herman please could you procure one of
24 those rebreathers.
25 Q. We've talked about the importance of chain
(888)811-3408
1835
1 in custody in accident investigations, haven't we?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Doctor, do you know the chain of custody
4 of those oxygen sensors from the time they left the
5 Naval experimental dive unit, immediately after they
6 were tested in 2010, until yesterday?
7 A. I do not. The serial numbers of those
8 each -- each sensor has a serial number so you can
9 identify whether it is the same sensor. But I --
10 first time I saw those sensors was yesterday.
11 Q. What is this?
12 A. That's a Shearwater dive computer.
13 Q. Do you understand that this is the
14 Shearwater dive computer worn by Wes Skiles on the
15 day he died?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. When was the first time you saw this piece
18 of equipment?
19 A. That was also yesterday. But it's useless
20 to me because I cannot get data out of it because
21 after such a passage of time, it doesn't have data.
22 So I relied on the very helpful photographs of the
23 dive logs of that. I did ask for the actual dive
24 log from that computer repeatedly, and I could not
25 get it.
(888)811-3408
1836
1 Q. Who did you ask?
2 A. I asked Mr. Herman.
3 Q. Repeatedly since 2013?
4 A. Yes. And so I then --
5 Q. You never got it?
6 A. I never got it. So I found a way of
7 getting that information by using the photograph --
8 the photographs taken straight on the screen and
9 then putting that photograph into AutoCAD and
10 getting the dive profile.
11 Q. Right. Exactly. You took this photograph
12 and you put it into an AutoCAD program, and then you
13 had to re-create Mr. Skiles' dive, whatever it is
14 you did, based on a photograph, when the original
15 computer was available to Mr. Herman at some
16 point -- do you know the chain of custody of this
17 piece of equipment?
18 A. I know part of the chain of custody, but
19 unfortunately, that log wouldn't be there by the
20 time -- that wasn't available.
21 Q. Hold on.
22 A. I need --
23 Q. Stop.
24 A. I need the logs on the day.
25 Q. I don't want to argue with you. But
(888)811-3408
1837
1 when -- 2013, did you ask for this computer?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you get it?
4 A. No.
5 Q. 2013, this information that was on this
6 computer was downloaded apparently to the Palm Beach
7 medical examiner. Did you get that data?
8 A. No. In 2013, that's interesting, no. I
9 asked specifically for that.
10 Q. Something Mrs. Skiles family had to
11 download, right?
12 A. I don't know. I asked specifically, I
13 need that data, otherwise I would have to do some
14 work, more work, in order to get it. It takes quite
15 a long time to do all of those points, tracing them
16 out on AutoCAD and then getting the AutoCAD file and
17 inputting in the correct format and then checking
18 that you've got the file correct.
19 Q. Right. And then this appeared in this
20 courtroom, correct?
21 A. Correct.
22 MR. HERMAN: Objection, Your Honor.
24 MR. CONCANNON: Would this be a good time
25 to take a break?
(888)811-3408
1838
1 THE COURT: Perfect. We're at our 3:00.
2 Let's go ahead and take our afternoon break.
3 We'll be in recess until 3:15.
4 Remember, there's no texting, tweeting
5 blogging or emailing about the case. Please do
6 not discuss the case among yourselves or with
7 anyone else. Do not do research about the case
8 or read any news articles related to the case.
9 You guys have a great break and I'll see
10 everyone back at 3:15.
11 (Jurors exited the courtroom.)
12 MR. SPOHRER: Can we ask how much more
13 cross examination we're going to have?
14 MR. CONCANNON: At least an hour.
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 MR. HERMAN: Do you expect to be done by
17 5:00?
18 MR. CONCANNON: I certainly hope so. I
19 really want to be done as quickly as possible.
20 (Recess was held from 3:01 p.m. until 3:18 p.m.)
21 COURT DEPUTY: Court is back in session.
22 THE COURT: Bring the jury back in.
23 (Discussion off the record.)
24 COURT DEPUTY: Jury entering.
25 (Jurors entered the courtroom.)
(888)811-3408
1839
1 THE COURT: Welcome back, everyone.
2 Mr. Concannon, you can proceed when you're
3 ready.
4 MR. CONCANNON: Thank you very much.
5 A. Just one item. I do remember those
6 pictures, the numbers -- I remember going through
7 them with Dr. Konow reported and also with
8 Ms. Littlefield. I remember the numbers were
9 slightly lower than what I expected when I went to
10 within Ms. Littlefield's report, but I do remember
11 seeing the pictures, but I haven't commented on them
12 in my report.
14 Q. All right. So your testimony is you do
15 remember seeing the pictures that Crime Scene
16 Investigator Elizabeth Rodon took at the dock?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. And the numbers were slightly lower --
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. -- than in Ms. Littlefield's
21 photographs --
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. -- that we're going to show to the jury?
24 Thank you, sir.
25 Let's talk about your gag strap theory for
(888)811-3408
1840
1 a moment -- well, actually, let's stay on the
2 numbers.
3 If your sticky water theory is correct and
4 oxygen sensors were blocked, how would numbers like
5 this appear at the dock just 20 minutes later?
6 A. It wasn't 20 minutes later it was quite a
7 while later. So, the point is at the dock, as
8 you're recovering the body, you bring the rebreather
9 up dropping it on the boat, not handling very gently
10 on the boat, dropping it on to the boat, knocking
11 sensors, that's clearing water.
12 As the diver is no longer breathing
13 through the scrubber, it's now going -- generating
14 water. Actually, it's like a sponge, it absorbs
15 water. If I get hit that scrubber -- on those
16 sensors, water on them, you see, very slowly, the
17 water coming off. So over time, the sensors clear.
18 They can clear quite quickly, even if the diver is
19 not just knocking them enough can actually clear
20 them.
21 Looking for two sensors to clear before it
22 then returns the PPO2 to corrected level.
23 Q. Two sensors?
24 A. Yes. Once you get clear -- clearing it,
25 it's now realizing that the PPO2 is low and started
(888)811-3408
1841
1 to inject gas. So, quite honestly, that's straight
2 average. So some rebreathers we exclude one sensor
3 and then take two common. If I recall correctly,
4 this one is from the average.
5 So once you get a sensor cleared, it will
6 then now start injecting gas depending what the
7 actual figures are. And those are two sensors
8 injecting gas. The scrubber is slightly absorbed to
9 water. That's why when it's shipped, it has quite a
10 bit of water in the scrubber because it needs water
11 to work.
12 Q. So, Doctor, do you need one sensor to
13 clear before it injects gas or two sensors?
14 A. On this unit, again, I've tested so many
15 things, I think on this unit the average is once
16 you've cleared one sensor, you've got more than
17 5 percent difference, it will clear. Most
18 rebreathers exclude one sensor. So you need two
19 sensors to clear.
20 I used the simulator box with me, and so I
21 used the simulator box to check the different
22 sensors. I did this now two months ago. I was just
23 going through the checklist what occurred.
24 Q. So, if a diver -- hypothetically speaking,
25 you're saying for water to block the sensors --
(888)811-3408
1842
1 first of all, in the 20 years that rebreathers have
2 been available to the diving public, can you name
3 one fatality where a medical examiner, a coroner,
4 the United States Navy, the Australian Navy, Polish
5 Navy, any Navy has concluded after a thorough
6 investigation, that a complete block of three
7 sensors was the cause of the diver's death? Give us
8 the name of the diver.
9 A. Most diver accidents do not have detailed
10 investigations.
11 If you will hold on one second. I've got
12 to look at other accidents.
13 Q. I want to know the name -- I don't want to
14 know where you concluded.
15 A. I understand that.
16 Q. Some investigative body, anywhere in the
17 world, concluded that a total block of three sensors
18 caused a diver to die.
19 A. I don't recall any. What I do recall
20 Dr. Clarke at the Navy Experimental Dive Unit, doing
21 a presentation in 2009 of water blocking sensors.
22 Q. That would be hearsay and --
23 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor --
25 Q. I asked you for the name of the --
(888)811-3408
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1 MR. HERMAN: He just asked for an answer.
2 THE COURT: He asked for a name. The
3 question was the name of case or --
4 MR. CONCANNON: Or a diver.
5 THE COURT: -- or investigation. So if it
6 relates to that, that's the question asked.
7 MR. HERMAN: That is, Your Honor.
8 THE COURT: Okay. Does Dr. Clarke that
9 you're talking about relate to a case or a
10 death where investigative body found --
11 THE WITNESS: This is in 2009 I saw the
12 presentation. The -- related to the output of
13 the oxygen sensors not being -- the water being
14 on the sensors causing the measured PPO2 to
15 differ from the actual.
16 It was then followed up by presentation by
17 Dr. Anthony from QinetiQ, the prime UK body
18 used to test rebreathers, where he described
19 another rebreather design where he found that
20 the oxygen level was drifting over time, and it
21 was due to the moisture appearing on the
22 sensors.
24 Q. Doctor, did you understand the question?
25 A. I did, but those -- I think Dr. Clarke was
(888)811-3408
1844
1 going to fatality.
2 Q. You think --
3 A. This was 2009 and now it's 2016. But in
4 that presentation he was looking at a fatality. In
5 my report, I list other accidents.
6 Q. All I want to know -- I only want where
7 did Dr. Clarke, Dr. John Clarke from the United
8 States Navy, Navy Experimental Dive Unit --
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. -- where did he give this presentation?
11 A. He gave the presentation at the -- quite a
12 few conferences. I think this one was the DAN
13 conference, DAN Technical Diving Conference.
14 There's three presentations. One of them was by
15 Gavin Anthony. And then also an article which
16 Dr. Clarke wrote that's online.
17 If you Google Dr. Clarke, I'm sure it will
18 come up.
19 Q. In your 138-page report, do you cite to
20 that study from John Clarke?
21 A. I cite a number of them.
22 Q. I'm asking you about Dr. Clarke.
23 A. I don't cite Dr. Clarke's report, but I do
24 cite many others in including where witnesses saw
25 the rebreather showing everything normal, but there
(888)811-3408
1845
1 was sudden loss of consciousness, hypoxia.
2 Q. Doctor, please, I'm asking you --
3 THE COURT: Can I have the attorneys
4 approach real quick.
6 THE COURT: I know you're concerned about
7 time, and I don't know if you want to instruct
8 him. If he answers the question asked, this
9 will go a lot faster. And I think that this
10 may turn into a two-hour cross because he's not
11 answering the questions asked.
12 I don't know if you want a moment to
13 talk -- have the jury step back and let you
14 instruct him to answer the questions. He can
15 answer whatever way you want. I just know that
16 you're pressed for time.
17 MR. SPOHRER: Absolutely.
18 THE COURT: How do you want to handle, let
19 me know.
20 MR. SPOHRER: I think part of it's the
21 answer being verbose, but part of it is the
22 question -- he doesn't like the answer and so
23 he's --
24 THE COURT: No, no, no, no. To his
25 defense, he's asking -- like, he just asked him
(888)811-3408
1846
1 Did you cite this in your report --
2 MR. SPOHRER: Okay.
3 THE COURT: -- this reference, article of
4 Dr. Clarke?
5 He says, I cited to other things. And he
6 wants to give a long answer instead of just
7 answering the question. You guys have a
8 chance --
9 MR. SPOHRER: In the interest of time,
10 I'll just, if you don't mind, with your
11 permission, just tell him to stick to answering
12 the question asked.
13 THE COURT: I don't want the jury to see
14 us. I can send them out.
15 MR. SPOHRER: I hate to do that because we
16 lose so much time.
17 Why don't you tell him? I don't mind if
18 you tell him.
19 MR. CONCANNON: I don't mind.
20 THE COURT: I'll instruct him that in the
21 interest of time, if you answer his questions,
22 your attorney is going to be able get back up
23 and follow up. I don't want to overstep.
24 MR. CONCANNON: That's fine.
25 MR. SPOHRER: That's perfect.
(888)811-3408
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1 THE COURT: I know if he has to stay for
2 another -- until Monday probably going to cost
3 a lot of money, so I'm trying to moving it
4 along.
5 MR. HERMAN: I instructed him very heavily
6 not to talk about other deaths.
7 MR. SPOHRER: Now he's being invited to
8 talk about it.
9 THE COURT: Well, that's why I didn't know
10 if you want to take two minutes and we'll
11 address this.
12 MR. HERMAN: No, no.
14 THE COURT: It's 3:30, Doctor, so if
15 you'll just listen to his question and answer
16 his question, then your attorneys will get up
17 back up and follow up with things that they
18 think is important. I just know we're trying
19 make sure you get out of here today.
20 So in the interest of that, go ahead.
21 A. The name Brent Cooper.
22 THE COURT: Hold on. Wait until there's a
23 question. I'll have him reask a question.
24 Thank you.
25
(888)811-3408
1848
1 BY MR. CONCANNON:
2 Q. I didn't hear -- there was no question
3 pending.
4 A. You asked me of another event, same as
5 this, is Brent Cooper. And the witnesses saw the
6 handsets while the loss of consciousness occurred.
7 Q. I asked you to give the name of a diver
8 where an investigative body, a formal investigative
9 body, not what some witnesses saw, but somebody who
10 did a formal investigation like a coroner or police
11 agency or Navy concluded this.
12 Is your answer I don't recall? Please
13 just say yes or no.
14 A. The coroner in this case stated the diver
15 went out like a light. And the witness statement in
16 that case was they saw his displays and were all
17 normal. This is on O2ptima. Brent Cooper and it's
18 December 7, 2013.
19 Q. What was the name again?
20 A. Brent Cooper.
21 Q. Brent Cooper. And when?
22 A. Sorry?
23 Q. When was the date?
24 A. 7th of December, 2013.
25 Sorry, Mr. Bailey, 2009 as well --
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. Doctor, stop, just stop.
2 A. I do believe his name is Brent Cooper --
3 Q. Doctor --
4 THE COURT: Hold on. Is there a question
5 pending?
6 MR. CONCANNON: No.
7 A. Please.
8 BY MR. CONCANNON:
9 Q. Let's talk about your gag strap theory.
10 Hypothetically speaking, if a diver lost
11 consciousness due to hypoxia -- right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. -- the gag strap keeps the mouthpiece in
14 their mouth?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Approximately how much time would they
17 have to live before the lack of oxygen took their
18 life, if they're just lying on the bottom?
19 A. Well, actually, it increases the oxygen
20 because as the diver fell, the ADV came on. The
21 formal modeling shows ADV fired and gave him extra
22 oxygen.
23 Q. Fair enough. Formal modeling -- I don't
24 want to know about formal modeling.
25 I want to know about what would happen if
(888)811-3408
1850
1 a diver is just resting on the reef and the oxygen
2 is at point -- when did you say they would lose
3 consciousness? I think you say in your report 0.10
4 to 0.65 PPO2, right?
6 Q. And then one of the reasons why I asked
7 about the metabolism. It would be something less --
8 they would have to be unconscious with a PPO2 at
9 0.10, correct?
10 A. Except it raises because ADV fires.
11 Q. It's rising and then if the diver is still
12 breathing, wouldn't they wake up because now they're
13 getting oxygen?
14 A. They would wake up and realize that
15 something happened.
16 Q. So they wouldn't die; is that your
17 testimony?
18 A. The likelihood is they would not.
19 Q. I see. Because the mouthpiece -- their
20 lips would remain sealed on the mouthpiece?
21 A. Reasonably sealed.
22 Q. Reasonably sealed.
23 In any case, every single case, right?
24 A. Well, on the mouthpiece here, I've tested
25 that with different divers, and with the gag hand
(888)811-3408
1851
1 off, mouth open, there's very little water ingress.
2 I demonstrated here it's quite a good
3 seal. It's forced hard against the teeth. It
4 doesn't seal on the lips, it's sealing on the teeth.
5 Q. You have done this?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. With diving?
8 A. Yes. You can try it yourself. Try to --
9 mouthpiece on, put it on, and realize what it's
10 doing, we get some complaints because it's pressing
11 on the teeth.
12 Q. I'm talking about the O2ptima. Talking
13 about the O2ptima that Mr. Skiles was using or any
14 O2ptima that anybody was using, do you get a
15 complete seal around the lips?
16 A. That is a an open-circuit-type mouthpiece
17 and that does not have as good a seal as the
18 rebreather designed mouthpiece, so the seal is
19 partial, but you still get a reasonable -- so the --
20 the gag strap is pushing it hard to your mouth. If
21 you design a gag strap, you need to make the
22 mouthpiece so it doesn't pop into your mouth.
23 There's a lip around the mouthpiece which then
24 forces itself against your teeth. On that unit
25 there, you can try it yourself right now if you
(888)811-3408
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1 wish.
2 Q. Nope.
3 Would a diver's jaw relax if they lost
4 consciousness?
5 A. It does, like I demonstrated when I opened
6 my mouth.
7 Q. All right. Okay.
8 A. If he loses consciousness from hypoxia.
9 If they lose consciousness from hyperoxia, it would
10 tense up very different.
11 Q. If they lost consciousness from hyperoxia,
12 they were tense?
13 A. They would tense in the tonic phase.
14 Q. So with your sticky water theory, it's
15 your testimony that if the -- somehow, some way, if
16 the readings were that, at the dock, that something
17 jolted the canister and the water was dislodged?
18 A. It could be dislodged being jolted, it can
19 dislodged by simply the EEC absorbing water.
20 Q. So Mr. Skiles is on his side for 11
21 minutes and then he hits the bottom, hypothetically
22 speaking, could that jolt the water?
23 A. Yes, it can. Anything can jolt the water
24 out. But in water tends to stabilize you.
25 MR. CONCANNON: Let's talk about
(888)811-3408
1853
1 Exhibit 76.1, Eric, please.
2 BY MR. CONCANNON:
3 Q. So your testimony is, I believe, that you
4 wrote the draft of that document from Analytical
5 Industries, Incorporated?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. How large is Analytical Industries,
8 Incorporated?
9 A. They've got a number of divisions and
10 groups. So I'm not too sure about the overall
11 company size.
12 Q. Why would Analytical Industries ask you to
13 write the draft of this?
14 A. Because we had done an enormous amount of
15 testing on their sensors, and they commented that
16 the -- we had done far more extensive testing than
17 they had ever done, provided written results to
18 them, had identified some issues which could be
19 improved for rebreathers on sensors. They developed
20 better sensors for rebreathers. We had very strong
21 dialogue with them. And they developed a specific
22 sensor for us.
23 Q. When did you write the draft of this
24 document for Analytical Industries?
25 A. I don't remember.
(888)811-3408
1854
1 Q. Well, the document says that in 1994,
2 Analytical Industries started with a clean sheet of
3 paper and started to R&D with the objective of
4 advancing sensor technology. Were you helping
5 Analytical Industries in 1994?
6 A. No, I wasn't. I could not tell you
7 anything about the history of Analytical Industries
8 that they were a good and reputable company. They
9 then added a bit more to that.
10 But the work on these oxygen sensors
11 occurred between 2006 -- but the prime work -- we
12 started the work in about 2003. But the prime work
13 with a significant team on it was 2006 to 2009.
14 Q. This document's dated October 2009,
15 correct?
16 A. Yes, I believe so. One second.
17 Q. You have it?
18 A. Yes, 2009, yes. When we had concluded
19 everything with our characterization of oxygen
20 cells.
21 Q. Why aren't you credited as having assisted
22 with the drafting and study of this?
23 A. I don't know if anyone's credited, not
24 even the staff of Analytical Industries. Not sure.
25 I said I drafted and provided it for them. A lot of
(888)811-3408
1855
1 companies, they provide something in the company's
2 name, and my name is not important.
3 Q. Do you have anything that you can show the
4 jury to reflect -- do you have a copy of the draft?
5 A. I do. It's on my computer, which is in
6 the back of your car. Fairly sure I've got a copy
7 of it on that. So, yes, I've got a computer with
8 me, and that will have a copy of the original draft
9 of this on it. I can look on the server and get
10 those emails.
11 Q. Well, Doctor, you're on cross examination.
12 You've been here for two days. Do you think that
13 would have been important to bring that in to show
14 the jury yesterday?
15 MR. HERMAN: Objection, Your Honor.
17 A. I didn't anticipate your question about
18 it. I gave you an answer. I know it's being
19 recorded. If this is not true, I would be blasted
20 all over the place for saying something like this.
21 Analytical Industries knows that I wrote that
22 document.
24 Q. At the bottom on the bottom right,
25 "Analytical Industries, Incorporated and their
(888)811-3408
1856
1 advanced instruments business unit has become the
2 preferred supplier of electricomechanical-based
3 oxygen analyzers to global companies in the field."
4 And very bottom, "In the field of industrial gases,
5 petrochemical products, natural gas, beverages,
6 metals, ventilators" --
7 THE COURT: Slow down a little bit.
8 BY MR. CONCANNON:
9 Q. -- "anesthesia machines, diving and
10 rebreathers, the latter includes supplying the U.S.
11 Navy with O2 sensors for the Mark 16 rebreather
12 since 1998."
13 A. Uh-huh.
14 Q. For two years before you ever certified to
15 dive on a rebreather, Analytical Industries is
16 supplying sensors to the United States Navy?
18 Q. And then is it your testimony that somehow
19 you came along and helped them improve their sensor
20 technology?
21 A. We did. We did an enormous amount of
22 testing. We did more testing on those sensors, more
23 characterization than they had done. Very
24 intensive. They're not experts in rebreathers. And
25 so by doing very extensive work for rebreathers,
(888)811-3408
1857
1 they improved the products.
2 Q. Is it your understanding that the U.S.
3 Navy goes with rookies when they --
4 A. Analytical Industries is not a rookie.
5 Analytical Industries is a very solid company. They
6 were the team that did the original sensors in
7 Teledyne as well.
8 Q. So, do you think the United States Navy
9 did testing before they adopted the sensors in 1998?
10 A. I don't know what testing the United
11 States Navy did. My job was to characterize the
12 sensor before I use it in a rebreather.
13 MR. CONCANNON: Okay. Third page, Eric.
14 Can you enlarge this?
16 Q. According to Analytical Industries in a
17 document that you helped draft, according to you,
18 condensation on the sensing surface of the sensor
19 reduces the signal output by blocking the diffusion
20 of oxygen into the sensor and is mistakenly
21 categorized as a sensor defect. In reality, there
22 is no damage to the sensor. Simply remove the
23 liquid, and the signal output returns.
24 Where is your warning here that water will
25 stick to the sensor?
(888)811-3408
1858
1 A. It doesn't say that. On the left, it
2 shows the position, and the warning is make sure
3 since your position or orientation is important,
4 that's the warning on the right. And then there's a
5 section at the back of it that summarized these
6 things where it explains about water must not be
7 allowed to pool on the sensor, temperature and so
8 on. So the wording is in the bottom right.
9 Analytical Industries were a bit too worried about
10 strong warnings.
11 Q. Doctor, I'm doing my best to finish today.
12 A. Thank you.
13 Q. Complete coverage, signal output decreases
14 12 millivolts to 10 millivolts, 17 percent after 20
15 minutes with complete coverage. Is that correct?
16 A. In air, yes.
17 Q. In air?
18 A. That is numbers. The 12 millivolt is an
19 air reading.
20 Q. Why doesn't it say that?
21 A. Because someone who submitted those
22 sensors knows that 12 millivolt is an air reading.
23 That's what it produces in air.
24 Q. Partial coverage, however, signal output,
25 no change?
(888)811-3408
1859
1 A. That's correct. Becomes slower, but it
2 doesn't -- does not cause that complete block.
3 Q. Partial coverage is what we saw just now
4 when we poured water on the sensors from Mr. Skiles'
5 rebreather, isn't it, when we flipped it back up?
6 A. First time we did it, it was complete
7 coverage even after it was up. But when you -- as
8 you move it, tiny bit drop off. But first time I
9 had it here, I had complete coverage. Whereas when
10 I showed it around yesterday, I had probably about
11 75 percent coverage.
12 Q. Doctor, you don't know the chain of
13 custody of those sensors over the last six years, do
14 you?
15 A. No, I don't.
16 Q. And you don't know what's happened to them
17 or what environment they've been kept in or whether
18 or not they've been subjected to humidity or any
19 other variables that could make water stick to them
20 more so today than six years ago, if it sticks to
21 them at all?
22 A. Well, that is not true. We've done a
23 seven-year study of those cells and seven years to
24 see what happens over a period of seven years. And
25 so we had cells which are aged well beyond the
(888)811-3408
1860
1 normal years and see what happens.
2 So the membranes, those plastics are very
3 stable. They have to be because the liquid inside
4 is extremely aggressive.
5 Q. Doctor, you knew what the chain of custody
6 was for those cells in that seven-year study, right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You maintained them?
9 A. Correct.
10 Q. Did you maintain them in an atmosphere
11 that you controlled?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you maintain them in an atmosphere
14 that would not interfere with your study?
15 A. We maintained them in different
16 atmospheres. Some of them put out and put them on a
17 bench, others we held in nitrogen. So we had
18 different sense --
19 Q. Did you make any effort to maintain the
20 integrity of the atmosphere that those cells were
21 kept in?
22 A. The ones that were simply left in normal
23 atmospheres, in air, which is left like that and
24 that was putting a box on a rack with exposed air
25 and just left.
(888)811-3408
1861
1 Q. But you don't know how these cells have
2 been stored -- these cells, do you?
3 A. That is correct.
4 Q. Right? You don't know if they might have
5 been in somebody's coat pocket or --
6 A. I do not know the chain of custody of
7 these cells. The first time I saw them in my
8 hand -- well, I've seen them in photographs. The
9 first time I saw them in my hand was yesterday.
10 Q. So would you agree with me that whatever
11 they're doing today is based on their condition
12 today?
13 A. Correct.
14 Q. Thank you. "Partial coverage signal
15 output, no change." That's what this says, right?
16 A. Yes. The signal stays the same but the
17 response rate reduces, gets slower.
18 Q. And this image here, is this condensation
19 or vapor?
20 A. It's intended to be tiny, tiny little
21 droplets. So remember that cloud situation where
22 you've got condensation in a sort of cloud but you
23 don't have coverage of the sensor surface.
24 Q. Orientation is important?
25 A. Yes.
(888)811-3408
1862
1 Q. It's oriented on its side, correct?
2 A. Well, that picture is on its side. I've
3 advised them to please change that picture to a
4 different picture facing down. They do the
5 graphics. I do the tests, they do the graphics.
6 And I suggested what pictures to put and they
7 actually had their graphics artist do those
8 pictures.
9 Q. But by the time Analytical Industries
10 created this graphic, they've been supplying sensors
11 to the United States Navy for over a decade, right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Do you think they knew how to orient
14 sensors by that time?
15 A. They knew that water should not be on the
16 sensor and they knew that --
17 Q. My question, Doctor --
18 A. -- it should be faced down.
19 Q. Please answer my questions. This will go
20 a lot faster.
21 Do you think Analytical Industries knew
22 how to depict a properly oriented sensor by 2009?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Thank you.
25 MR. CONCANNON: Next page, Eric. Okay.
(888)811-3408
1863
1 Enlarge this up here, please.
2 BY MR. CONCANNON:
3 Q. Oxygen sensors have a finite life.
4 Understanding the date code embodied in the serial
5 number is critical to determining the age or
6 manufacture date of a sensor, maximizing the benefit
7 of the warranty period and helping users avoid
8 buying and/or diving with aged sensors, which is a
9 bad thing, right?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. This is how you read the date code, right?
12 What is the first digit?
13 A. The year of manufacture.
14 Q. So the first date, if it's a 9, it means
15 the date of manufacture is 2009, right?
16 A. Right.
17 Q. The next two digits identify the month,
18 correct?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. So 07 is the seventh month.
21 All right.
22 MR. CONCANNON: On the other page from
23 there, Eric, "what we have learned,
24 preventative maintenance," enlarge this.
25
(888)811-3408
1864
1 BY MR. CONCANNON:
2 Q. "Our investigation has yielded a
3 surprising number of cases involving diving with old
4 sensors, the lack of regular sensor replacement, and
5 failure to follow the rebreather manufacturer's
6 calibration procedures."
7 Right?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. That's what AI is telling its audience of
10 rebreather divers or any diver that's intelligent
11 and knows diving is that there are a surprising
12 number of cases involving diving with old sensors,
13 right?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. It's a really bad idea?
16 A. Old sensors, yes.
17 Q. And you could be risking your life if you
18 dive with old sensors, right?
19 A. Depends how old --
20 Q. Well --
21 A. -- and depends whether they've been
22 tested.
23 Q. Uh-huh.
24 A. But, yes, it's a bad idea.
25 Q. Right. Did the Navy Experimental Dive
(888)811-3408
1865
1 Unit attempt to re-create the circumstances of
2 Mr. Skiles' dive when it did its testing in Panama
3 City, Florida?
4 A. Not as far as I'm aware.
5 MR. CONCANNON: "Temperature." Just
6 underneath.
7 BY MR. CONCANNON:
8 Q. "The CO2 scrubber generates heat, which
9 keeps the temperature inside the rig around
10 90 degrees Fahrenheit. The design should locate the
11 oxygen sensor in the coolest location possible."
12 Correct?
13 A. Yes. The first number is actually -- they
14 used the word rig. It wasn't there. Just after
15 scrubber is about 90 degrees Fahrenheit and
16 sometimes hotter.
17 Q. Just after the scrubber --
18 A. Yes. We measured 50 Centigrade. It's
19 much hotter than that. That's when the diver is
20 working hard and the water is quite warm. So,
21 90 Fahrenheit is quite a common figure.
22 Q. All right. What was the temperature --
23 the air temperature on the day of this dive,
24 Mr. Skiles' last dive?
25 A. It was quite warm. Remember water
(888)811-3408
1866
1 temperature is 23 and the air temperature was warmer
2 than that.
3 Q. Air temperature was 95 degrees?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And the water temperature was 23 degrees
6 Celsius?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What is that in Fahrenheit?
9 A. 23 is 70, something like that.
10 Q. Almost 80, isn't it?
11 A. Perhaps if I could use a calculator. I'm
12 used to doing metrics.
13 Q. So the temperature outside the scrubber
14 canister is 80 degrees and the temperature inside?
15 A. Would be hotter.
16 Q. Is 90?
17 A. It's going to be hotter still. If you've
18 got such a warm water temperature, the difference
19 between the ambient temperature and the outward
20 scrubber is a basic constant number. And so if
21 you've got such warm water, it will be over hundred.
22 Q. Doctor, yesterday you did a little
23 demonstration for the jury where you were talking
24 about how bangs on the CO2 scrubber will bang on the
25 sensor plate, right?
(888)811-3408
1867
1 A. Yes. The scrubber is slightly large.
2 Q. Was it your concern that the scrubber also
3 contains little grommets?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Little grommets right here to prevent
6 banging and there's rubber grommets on the other
7 side, too, and that the sensor -- not the sensor. I
8 apologize.
9 The canister sits on those rubber grommets
10 and they'll cushion any movement, correct?
11 A. Not really. It telescopes.
12 Q. Telescopes?
13 A. If you look at the surface of that
14 scrubber, that's a scrubber that I've used, and it
15 starts off flat, and these oxygen sensor rings sort
16 of extend out slightly. And the profile that's has
17 been matched with that plate.
18 So although they held on the edge very,
19 very close to the sensors, after a bit use the
20 telescopes downwards and hits the sensors.
21 MR. CONCANNON: May I show this to the
22 jury, Your Honor?
23 THE COURT: You may.
25 Q. So, Doctor, the plate rests down here,
(888)811-3408
1868
1 right?
3 Q. And it rests below this rubber grommet.
4 Members of the jury may examine it, touch it, if you
5 would like.
6 And that rubber grommet is intended to
7 make sure that the scrubber canister does not touch
8 the sensor plate; is that correct?
9 A. Measured it about 4 millimeters.
10 Q. And is it true, sir, that the hot air or
11 gas covering -- coming out of that scrubber will
12 cool a little bit before it gets to the sensors,
13 right?
14 A. Not with the sensors that close. The
15 sensors are right up against it. If you look at the
16 profile of that scrubber, you see it's telescoped.
17 It's following down the profile so the outer rings
18 of the scrubber are lower and shorter than the
19 middle. It's telescoped outwards.
20 Q. Doctor, what is this little black device
21 around this white tube?
22 A. That's a grommet, which is intended to
23 seal the white tube to the ball of the scrubber.
24 It's 10-millimeter outside radius, outside diameter.
25 Q. All right. You testified yesterday that
(888)811-3408
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1 the rebreather Mr. Skiles was using had a small-bore
2 cover, correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. So this is intended to seal the bore so
5 that carbon dioxide does not escape past the
6 scrubber?
8 Q. Because if carbon dioxide or if gas
9 escapes past the scrubber and the CO2 is not
10 scrubbed out, the diver will be breathing more CO2
11 than is intended?
12 A. That's correct. Tiny amount more.
13 Q. Pardon me?
14 A. Tiny amount more.
15 Q. But the diver is supposed to move this
16 grommet, and then as he puts the canister on, it
17 creates a seal, right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did Mr. Skiles do that?
20 A. No.
21 Q. So we can say with some certainty that
22 some carbon dioxide is bypassing the scrubber and
23 getting to Mr. Skiles?
24 A. Yes. We measured it. It's very tiny,
25 about 400 parts per million. Much less than is in
(888)811-3408
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1 this room.
2 Q. But you're not a doctor, right?
3 A. I'm --
4 Q. Not a medical doctor?
5 A. I was trained in physiology.
6 Q. No, no, are you a medical doctor?
7 A. Not a medical doctor.
8 Q. Not giving any medical opinions in this
9 case?
10 A. Not giving medical opinions.
11 MR. SPOHRER: Your Honor, I just wanted to
12 caution the witness to try to abbreviate his
13 answers because Mr. Concannon is trying to --
14 THE COURT: I want everybody -- we're
15 trying to get it done.
16 MR. SPOHRER: I would ask Mr. Concannon
17 not to reask the same question about whether
18 he's a medical doctor. Thank you.
20 Q. Just so we're all clear what you looked
21 at, Doctor --
22 MR. CONCANNON: Eric, would you please
23 call up the photographs that were taken at the
24 medical examiner's office during Mr. Derrick's
25 inspection? I believe we have it at B21. Can
(888)811-3408
1871
1 you just bring up photograph number 19?
2 BY MR. CONCANNON:
3 Q. I don't want to spend a lot of time on
4 this, but I want to go through this so that we
5 understand. This is in evidence. This is the
6 display on the secondary controller when Mr. Derrick
7 did his inspection, correct?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. It says alert 0.6. 1.4 we determined is
10 the setpoint, right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. 0.51 is what sensor?
13 A. Sensor one.
14 Q. The partial pressure of oxygen is 0.51.
15 0.63 and 0.53. That's what the three sensors are
16 reading?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. If they're doing their job?
19 A. Correct.
20 MR. HERMAN: This is in evidence, this
21 picture, and they're all Bates numbered,
22 there's like 400-some pictures. I would ask
23 that we identify it so the jury knows which
24 picture it is that's in evidence.
25 THE COURT: Do we know? Is that something
(888)811-3408
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1 we can determine afterwards?
2 MR. CONCANNON: We can determine that
3 afterwards.
4 THE COURT: We'll take a shot of this one
5 and I'll make notes, and we'll get that
6 information.
7 BY MR. CONCANNON:
8 Q. So the record is clear, I'm calling these
9 out to the AV consultant by the photograph number as
10 supplied to us by the medical examiner's office.
11 THE COURT: Okay.
12 MR. CONCANNON: So when I say number 19,
13 it is number 19 -- 0019.
14 Eric, 0020.
16 Q. What is this, Doctor?
17 A. Light saying it's below setpoint.
18 Q. It's a red light?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So we know the red light, the warning
21 light is working on the secondary controller?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. 27, number 27, please.
24 Again, is this just another photograph of
25 the secondary handset?
(888)811-3408
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Readings are the same?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Number 33.
5 And, Doctor, what are we looking at here?
6 A. That's the primary handset. It's got a
7 low reading on the first sensor and then much the
8 same, .62, .53.
9 Q. Is that unusual for the two sensors to be
10 read differently on the other handsets?
11 A. It happens from time to time. Different
12 loadings.
13 Q. Right. And the setpoint is 1.4. What is
14 the 78?
15 A. I can't remember. I don't remember -- I
16 remember going through the manual quite a few times.
17 I go through the manual every single time because I
18 see so many displays, so many handsets and so many
19 different versions I can easily mix them up when I
20 do things.
21 So I think that's the scrubber run time on
22 that particular unit. But I use the manual. When I
23 say "display," I'll get the manual out and go
24 through it.
25 Q. What is the 110?
(888)811-3408
1874
1 A. I think I have to go to the scrubber
2 stack. I refer to the manual. I don't do it by
3 memory, I go through the manual every single time.
4 MR. CONCANNON: 146, Eric.
5 BY MR. CONCANNON:
6 Q. What are we looking at here?
7 A. Looking at the other end of the scrubber.
8 There's a water trap that's there, intended to be a
9 water trap. It's a flow cone -- actually, first
10 function is flow cone, but it also acts as a bit of
11 a water trap. The gas comes in at an angle, and has
12 to be spread evenly because once the gas starts
13 going through the scrubber, if it's not evenly
14 spread, you get a greatly reduced scrubber life.
15 Q. And is this -- what I'm pointing to, the
16 red rubber gasket that holds the scrubber canister
17 in place?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. 149. What is this photograph of, sir?
20 A. That looks like that's the same thing with
21 the flow cone removed.
22 Q. There's the red rubber gasket that holds
23 the canister in place?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. We see some residue, don't we?
(888)811-3408
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is that residue from the scrubber?
3 A. Normally, yes.
4 Q. And there's -- does it appear wet?
5 A. Yes, I would expect it to be wet.
6 Q. It's supposed to be wet?
7 A. Not supposed to be, but because -- if the
8 diver has water in the scrubber, in the whole
9 scrubber canister, and then leans to his right, the
10 water will go into there and not be able to escape
11 easily until it gets to the level of the flow cone.
12 In that case, it comes out.
13 Q. That's the water trap, isn't it?
14 A. Certainly a water trap.
15 Q. It's the water trap on the O2ptima?
16 A. Well, the counterlung is also -- acts as a
17 bit of a water trap.
18 Q. Right. There's two water traps before the
19 water gets to the scrubber.
20 MR. CONCANNON: And I hate to keep doing
21 this, but may I show the jury?
22 THE COURT: You can, but when you're
23 moving the equipment, it creates noise and we
24 can't hear the witness. So when you're
25 showing, don't ask questions. And when you're
(888)811-3408
1876
1 showing, we won't have him answer because it's
2 really hard to hear.
3 BY MR. CONCANNON:
4 Q. Stick your hand in there. You can feel
5 there's a lip, and that water will run into the
6 water trap and it will not come out unless the level
7 of the water -- am I paraphrasing you right,
8 Doctor -- the level of the water goes above that
9 lip?
11 Q. 154. What are we looking at in this
12 photograph, Doctor?
13 A. That's the sensor end of the cap. It's
14 the left -- diver's left side cap. It's the outlet
15 to the scrubber.
16 Q. Here is the red gasket again?
17 A. Yes.
18 MR. CONCANNON: Please blow.
20 Q. It up. And this is the grommet that we
21 were talking about?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And that's supposed to be here, but it's
24 actually pushed down into the sensor head, below the
25 sensor plate?
(888)811-3408
1877
2 Q. Does that -- that's not where it's
3 supposed to be?
4 A. Correct.
5 MR. CONCANNON: The next photograph, Eric,
6 is 155.
7 BY MR. CONCANNON:
8 Q. This is a closeup of the sensor plate,
9 correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Do you see any residue on the sensor
12 plate?
13 A. No. I didn't find any residue when I
14 tested it.
15 Q. This is the one that Mr. Skiles was using.
16 Do you see -- you see residue on the red gasket,
17 right?
18 A. Silicone. Silicone changes shape and
19 tends to stick to it, so you see residue on the ring
20 just like you see on the one that I brought.
21 There's no residue on the plate.
22 Q. There's no residue on the plate, and there
23 doesn't appear to be any residue around the outside
24 of the sensors, which are also black, correct?
25 A. Which is what I found also.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. 156. Better shot of the gasket, correct?
2 Do you see any water?
3 A. Earlier -- if you show the other slide,
4 yes, you can see water pouring out of the scrubber.
5 I can give you the slide number, if you wish.
6 Q. We'll get to it, don't worry. Here's a
7 little residue around the outside, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. It's on the black section, but there's
10 nothing on the plate?
11 A. Yes, doesn't stick to the plate.
12 Q. You don't see anything here on this rubber
13 grommet either, do you?
14 A. No, it doesn't, because it's a plastic
15 matrix, it doesn't stick to the plate. The scrubber
16 is a plastic matrix.
17 Q. 160. There's a little bit of water in the
18 sensor head, correct?
19 A. Yes, but there's more pouring out in the
20 earlier slide.
21 Q. Let's go to 151. Can you go back to 151?
22 This is the scrubber --
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. -- from Mr. Skiles' rebreather?
25 A. Yes.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. Where is the telescoping?
2 A. Can you zoom into it? Which end is which?
3 So there's a number of different pictures of the
4 scrubber. Can you zoom in?
5 Q. Just did.
6 A. Can you zoom again? Now, that is the
7 other end of the scrubber. If you look at that lip,
8 the outside is raised, so the center has dropped
9 down. So this is the end of scrubber that was at
10 the -- near the water trap. And it dropped down,
11 telescoped down. And the thing that stops the
12 telescoping further is the plate. That's why it's
13 telescoped down.
14 Q. That's what you see in this photograph?
15 A. Yes. Only 4 millimeters of telescoping.
16 Q. 161 -- 24 millimeters [sic], but that was
17 not measured in this instance, right?
18 THE COURT REPORTER: For clarification,
19 it's 4 millimeters or 24 millimeters.
20 THE WITNESS: 4 millimeters.
22 Q. We're looking the sensors now. This is
23 what they looked like on the day -- or within days
24 of the accident, correct?
25 A. Yes. Again, there's other pictures where
(888)811-3408
1880
1 there's water coming out of the back of them.
2 Q. Can we stick to this question, please?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What are these markings?
5 A. Those are the dates that we --
6 Q. Those are the dates that Mr. Sapp fitted
7 the sensors into the O2ptima, correct?
8 A. Normally, yes. It doesn't state that.
9 That's what those dates normally are for a trained
10 rebreather diver, you note the date you fit them.
11 Q. Exactly. Trained rebreather diver is
12 trained to write the dates on the sensors so he not
13 only knows how old they are, but he knows how long
14 he's been using them, right?
15 A. Which is even more important, yes.
16 Q. Right. And what is this number here?
17 A. That's one which is 11/08.
18 Q. Which is November of 2008?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And this accident occurred in late
21 July 2010?
22 A. That's right.
23 Q. Almost?
24 A. Nineteen months.
25 Q. Nineteen months of use, correct?
(888)811-3408
1881
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. What is this number?
3 A. I think that's the one that's 08/12 or
4 something. It's in my report. I forget what the
5 numbers were.
6 Q. We have other photographs. We'll get to
7 those.
8 A. There's one which is 2012. There's
9 another one that's 2011 -- 2008.
10 MR. SPOHRER: We have the dates.
11 THE WITNESS: Exactly.
13 Q. Go back to the whole picture without
14 anything blown up. Okay.
15 Doctor, the dates are clearly visible,
16 correct?
17 A. Yes, and I read them into my report.
18 Q. On the checklist that Mr. Skiles
19 supposedly completed, did he write the dates?
20 A. I don't recall seeing the dates. I don't
21 recall seeing dates.
22 Q. A rebreather diver would be trained to
23 record those dates before every dive, right?
24 A. I don't recall the dates in the checklist.
25 Q. My question was: Would a rebreather diver
(888)811-3408
1882
1 be trained to record the date of the sensors he's
2 using before every dive?
3 MR. HERMAN: Object to the form.
5 A. Depends. Some rebreather divers do, some
6 don't.
7 BY MR. CONCANNON:
8 Q. Are you familiar with the checklist that
9 Mr. Skiles was using?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Does it have a place for him to record the
12 dates of the sensors?
13 A. Yes. But divers have checked some days
14 earlier, and they don't go and check every day.
15 Q. Doctor, I'm just asking you what the
16 checklist completed by Mr. Skiles shows.
17 A. On that dive, he did not write down the
18 dates.
19 Q. Thank you. 163. We have a more clear
20 image that at least this sensor was fitted in
21 November 2008, right? Can you answer the question?
22 A. Yes, that's correct.
23 Q. 164. What is that number written in
24 Sharpie?
25 A. Looks like 12-2008.
(888)811-3408
1883
1 MR. SPOHRER: We can stipulate to the
2 dates on all the sensors. It's in his report.
3 It's not in controversy.
4 THE COURT: It's established. Let's move
5 on.
6 MR. SPOHRER: I don't know why we have to
7 take so much time on this. I object.
8 MR. CONCANNON: I thought Mr. Herman was
9 handling this witness.
10 MR. SPOHRER: He is.
11 THE COURT: Can you guys approach.
13 THE COURT: Please refrain from doing that
14 in front of the jury. It doesn't make me look
15 bad. It's disrespectful to the Court. It's
16 more disrespectful to you guys. If you would
17 have just said objection, asked and answered, I
18 would have sustained and we would have not
19 taken this time up. I'm trying to get this
20 witness on and off.
21 I can't have you keep undermining my
22 authority in front of the jury. It's not fair
23 to me. I've been very patient with you guys.
24 I've warned you guys continuously. Please do
25 not do speaking objections. The next time a
(888)811-3408
1884
1 speaking objection is done -- I don't want to
2 have to do contempt proceedings. Please don't
3 make me do that. I don't know how else to say
4 don't do it again, or I'll keep reprimanding
5 you even harder in front of the jury.
6 MR. SPOHRER: I understand, Your Honor.
7 THE COURT: Step back.
9 BY MR. CONCANNON:
10 Q. 167. Doctor, what are we looking at in
11 this photograph?
12 A. I think the amount of water that's come
13 out of one of the -- I think that particular one is
14 out of the scrubber canister, but there's lots of
15 these, and each label of how much water was coming
16 out of each place.
17 Q. Where is the telescoping in the canister
18 that you talked about?
19 A. Look at -- if you need -- zoom in right at
20 the bottom. The bottom of that. You notice it's
21 not flat on the table. The center of it is down.
22 It's not sitting flat on the table.
23 Q. Do you know what happened --
24 A. Now look at the other side.
25 Q. Do you know what happened to this scrubber
(888)811-3408
1885
1 canister?
2 A. I do not know everything that happened to
3 that scrubber canister.
4 Q. You don't know the chain of custody of
5 that scrubber canister?
6 A. I do know the chain of custody. You asked
7 me what happened to it. So when the rebreather was
8 recovered from the water and put on the boat, I
9 don't know exactly how heavy it was put down, so
10 there are some aspects I do not know about the
11 scrubber canister.
12 Q. Do you know that the scrubber canister was
13 tested by the Navy?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Do you know what happened to the scrubber
16 canister after it was tested by the Navy?
17 A. After it was tested by the Navy? No.
18 Q. Did you ask for this scrubber canister to
19 be supplied to you?
20 A. I asked for the whole rebreather to be
21 supplied.
22 Q. Okay. And at least the sensors ended up
23 in the position of -- the possession of the
24 Plaintiff's counsel, right?
25 A. Yes. I did read --
(888)811-3408
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1 THE COURT: This has been asked and
2 answered. We're moving on.
3 MR. CONCANNON: Thank you, Judge. Sorry.
4 Didn't mean to. Moving on. 169, please.
5 BY MR. CONCANNON:
6 Q. Now, this is the closeup of the other
7 photograph. How much water was removed from the
8 head -- the entire head of Mr. Skiles O2ptima
9 rebreather?
10 A. That looks like a hundred -- quite a large
11 container, so I assume it's 100 milliliters -- yes,
12 that looks like 100 milliliters.
13 Q. 100 milliliters. This is a 500-milliliter
14 bottle?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. About as much water as in this water
17 bottle? In this entire --
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. -- in the entire head?
20 A. So there's another slide where they have
21 water pouring out of the scrubber onto the rig.
22 He's got the scrubber cap opened, and see the
23 pouring out and then going across the harness, going
24 across everything else in those same set of slides.
25 Q. I thought you said you don't have any
(888)811-3408
1887
1 criticisms of how Mr. Derrick or the medical
2 examiner conducted this equipment exam.
3 A. I don't. But I noticed that they have
4 this measure and also have a picture of showing how
5 it's done, and you see other water pouring out and
6 spreading over the harness or the drilling of the
7 rebreather. So they've not captured all the water.
8 Q. In your opinion?
9 A. Yes. But that's a lot of water. I don't
10 normally see any water in a rebreather in that
11 location.
12 Q. 172. Just as an example, here's the
13 serial number. The date on this sensor is August of
14 '09, correct?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. 2009, almost two years before the
17 accident?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. 202. We can agree that the sensors were
20 almost two years old, right?
21 A. Correct, but they worked because NEDU
22 tested them and also Mr. Derrick tested them, and
23 they worked.
24 Q. How long did NEDU test the sensor for?
25 What duration?
(888)811-3408
1888
1 A. I think 60 minutes, but they don't get
2 worse.
3 Q. What are we looking at here in this
4 picture?
5 A. That the cylinder. Both cylinders are
6 inspected a lot earlier than the dive. This one is
7 2007, December 2007 inspection stamp.
8 Q. So part of this equipment safety program,
9 valid for one date from the date punched, correct?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. The date it's punched is December 2007?
12 A. Yes, that's a visual inspection.
13 Q. So nobody had done a visual inspection or
14 maintained this tank for at least two years or two
15 and a half?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. 217. Here's another sticker, similar
18 sticker, this green label, what does that indicate?
19 A. It's probably the oxygen cylinder.
20 Q. What's the date punch on here?
21 A. That one is July. It's got two stamps,
22 July -- there is -- first punch is December 2007.
23 That one bottom is just someone's -- they get
24 scored.
25 Q. Like a tear?
(888)811-3408
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1 A. Yes.
2 December 2007.
3 Q. So the oxygen tank had not been inspected
4 for two and a half years?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. And pure oxygen can be dangerous, right?
7 A. Of course.
8 Q. If you don't properly care for your
9 equipment, you can cause a fire?
10 A. You can. But it didn't occur.
11 Q. Didn't, but it could be quite a serious
12 fire?
13 A. Oh, yes.
14 MR. HERMAN: Objection, relevance, Your
15 Honor.
18 Q. 220. What is this, Doctor?
19 A. 98 percent oxygen.
20 Q. What's this date? Do you understand what
21 that writing is?
22 A. 07/10 is the month Wes Skiles analyzed it.
23 So when I read that, because American dates -- I
24 don't know if it's 10th or 7th, or 7/10th.
25 Here -- I don't know if he's marked it -- normally
(888)811-3408
1890
1 you mark it with a day and the month. So in
2 American form, it is the 10th of July, Wesley
3 Skiles, 98 percent oxygen, which is normal oxygen.
4 Q. Divers are supposed to analyze their gases
5 when they're using oxygen or mixed gases before
6 every dive, correct?
7 A. Correct. Supposed to analyze it three
8 times: When you collect it, when you're putting it
9 on the boat, and when -- before you use it.
10 Q. As far as this tape indicates, Mr. Skiles
11 examined it once, and that was 11 days before the
12 dive?
13 A. He examined -- all I know from that
14 sticker is that he examined it on that date.
15 Whether he then reanalyzed it before the dive, we
16 wouldn't normally mark the cylinders until just
17 before the dive, making sure the cylinder is marked
18 before it goes on the boat.
19 Q. Moving on to Dr. Deas' photographs, DSZ --
20 A. I spoke incorrectly. Can I correct
21 myself?
22 THE COURT: Yes, go ahead.
23 A. They analyze the gas when they use it, but
24 don't usually write it down because it's marked
25 already that's it on the boat.
(888)811-3408
1891
1 BY MR. CONCANNON:
2 Q. Doctor, you did provide with us some
3 photographs of your in-water testing, correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And just to authenticate this, you are in
6 a pool in a house in Portugal, right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Not in a test facility in your place of
9 business?
10 A. No, the water is too cold.
11 Q. I see. And just so the jury is clear,
12 where are the oxygen sensors in this rebreather?
13 A. Sensor's underneath my hand.
14 Q. And slightly to the right of that?
15 A. Probably just underneath my hand,
16 actually.
17 Q. 1203. What are we looking at here?
18 A. Took some pictures before starting the
19 dive on the surface to make sure it was okay and
20 asked my wife to take some pictures. I think it
21 might be a picture my wife took. That's the rig
22 after I've dived it. That's one of the tests. I
23 put it on the side, and that's the front of it.
24 Q. Did you take these photos with a cell
25 phone?
(888)811-3408
1892
1 A. Probably, yes.
2 Q. Could you --
3 A. Because my GoPro failed.
4 Q. What is this device? Can you blow it up
5 even more, this thing down here?
6 A. Yes, that's the DIVA alarm. And what
7 you're doing is seeing whether it's visible putting
8 it initial positions, left and right, different
9 marks so I can see whether it was visible or not. I
10 wanted to see the top of it.
11 Q. This position that you put it in for
12 visibility was at a 90-degree angle, so it's
13 pointing straight down?
14 A. Correct.
15 Q. You didn't have it angled down to the
16 mouthpiece?
17 A. It's on a piece of metal which is bent at
18 sort of an angle, so I tried that left, and I tried
19 that right. I was trying to reproduce the image
20 that was predive for Mr. Skiles and see left and
21 right high what was visible.
22 Q. You answered the question.
23 1188. What are you doing in this image?
24 MR. CONCANNON: Blow it up.
25 A. This is before I start the dive. I just
(888)811-3408
1893
1 want to check -- in fact, I have to have a look.
2 Checking to see what I'm holding. I wanted to --
3 that may be just my fin. I forget which one it is.
4 This is just before I started the dive. This is
5 just the shallow end of the pool. I just wanted to
6 make sure the unit was working before I start diving
7 it.
8 BY MR. CONCANNON:
9 Q. Okay. What is this device on your left
10 wrist?
11 A. That's the handsets. I put it -- one of
12 the handsets.
13 Q. You put it where you could see it?
14 A. I put it there so I could see it, or move
15 it about.
16 Q. You're wearing another dive computer on
17 your wrist?
18 A. We're doing test, I've got another
19 computer.
20 Q. What is this device here?
21 A. Another handset. There's two handsets.
22 Q. Is the primary controller the one on the
23 left?
24 A. I'm trying to remember the dive. I marked
25 them so I know which is which. Normally I have the
(888)811-3408
1894
1 primary -- when I dive, my primary is on the left
2 and secondary is on the right. Here I was looking
3 at the PPO2. So I think I just ran them around and
4 was just comparing them.
5 MR. CONCANNON: 1195. Blow it up, please.
6 BY MR. CONCANNON:
7 Q. What you are doing here, sir?
8 A. Here, just checking that I can read the
9 handset before we start diving the unit.
10 Q. Checking the primary with your -- you're
11 looking at it and you're manipulating it with your
12 right hand, correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. 1197, that's essentially the same
15 photograph?
16 A. Yes, I asked her to take some pictures
17 while I was on the surface. Obviously, she couldn't
18 take decent pictures underwater. I'm just checking
19 that I can see the handsets, that they give me
20 proper values.
21 There were a couple of tests I wanted to
22 do just to make sure I knew how quickly the oxygen
23 would drop if I turn things off, and I wanted to
24 also see if I can access this valve, the shutoff
25 valve. I couldn't. So I was in and out of the
(888)811-3408
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1 water quite a bit to see if I can access that valve.
2 Q. Do you wear reading glasses?
3 A. I do wear reading glasses, but not -- for
4 example, there's enough light in Portugal. Portugal
5 is really bright, like here. If it's bright, I
6 don't need reading glasses, but if it's dim, I'll
7 put on reading glasses.
8 Q. So when you're looking at the handset, you
9 can read it?
10 A. Oh, yes.
11 Q. Maybe 6 inches from your face?
12 A. Yes, I can read it. Characters are quite
13 bigger than these ones. I can read small print when
14 it's not wet literature.
15 Q. 1201. I won't ask any questions about
16 this one.
17 1202.
18 MR. HERMAN: Your Honor, I would ask --
19 objection, relevance, for each photo.
20 THE COURT: Overruled. They're his
21 photos. Overruled.
22 MR. CONCANNON: Yes, thank you. So sorry.
23 THE COURT: Can you guys approach?
25 THE COURT: I'm not offended by it. How
(888)811-3408
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1 much longer do you have?
2 MR. CONCANNON: Ten minutes.
3 THE COURT: Because I'm going to hold you
4 to the ten minutes so that they have redirect
5 time. Good.
7 THE COURT: I was just checking to see how
8 much longer we have. We're going to finish him
9 on time.
10 MR. CONCANNON: Rolling as fast as I can.
11 THE COURT: I know. I just wanted to make
12 sure we were going to finish.
14 Q. 1202. Again. Doctor, what's in your
15 hand?
16 A. I think it's a bag with a cell phone.
17 That's one -- the first one flooded. That's a bag
18 with an Apple iPhone 3GS which flooded.
19 Q. So you had problems with more than one
20 camera?
21 A. Yes. Fails quite often when I use it, and
22 so -- it happens.
23 MR. CONCANNON: Just rolling through here
24 as quickly as I can, Your Honor.
25
(888)811-3408
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1 BY MR. CONCANNON:
2 Q. During your analysis, did you consider
3 whether Mr. Skiles was task loaded?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. By task loading, he was operating a camera
6 and he had a light, correct?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. It's been your experience in diving the
9 O2ptima rebreather, I think you said you tried to
10 simulate using a camera?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you also try to simulate using a
13 light?
14 A. No.
15 Q. During your simulation, were you using a
16 camera, how did you do that?
17 A. I used cylinder, first 7-liter steel
18 cylinder, a bit too heavy, so then changed to
19 83-liter cylinder. And just making me bouyant.
20 Q. Did you also use a viewfinder or try to
21 simulate using a viewfinder in any way?
22 A. No, I was looking around the unit with my
23 head up, trying to keep the same position.
24 Q. Did you draw any conclusions about how
25 difficult it is to use a camera and light while also
(888)811-3408
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1 using the O2ptima rebreather?
2 A. I did. The O2ptima is quite a heavy
3 task-loading rebreather, I found. First of all, the
4 counterlungs restrict my view, and so because of
5 that, it's heavy task loading in the way the
6 hosing -- hoses run and things like this.
7 Q. Doctor, I want to show you -- do you have
8 a user manual for the Apocalypse?
9 A. Yes.
10 MR. CONCANNON: Turn it on, Eric.
11 MR. HERMAN: Is this an exhibit?
12 MR. CONCANNON: We are going to mark this
13 Defendant's 3 for identification.
14 THE COURT: Defendant's 3. Have you guys
15 seen this?
16 MR. HERMAN: (Shaking head.)
17 MR. CONCANNON: Just hand them a copy.
18 THE COURT: I couldn't hear you. Do you
19 need to approach?
20 MR. HERMAN: No, Your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Okay.
22 (Thereupon, marked for identification as
23 Defense Exhibit 3.)
25 Q. Doctor, do you recognize this document?
(888)811-3408
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Tell the jury what that is.
3 A. It's the user manual for the Apocalypse
4 rebreathers.
5 Q. For the rebreather that we've seen here in
6 the courtroom?
7 A. Yes, it's available online. We publish it
8 for anybody.
9 Q. Can you zoom out. Page 1. First page.
10 Mr. Huskey, please zoom in on this top
11 paragraph.
12 These are the general precautions and
13 warnings you give the divers before they use the
14 Apocalypse rebreather, right?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. This is the very first page, right?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What is the very first warning?
19 A. "Before using the Apocalypse rebreather,
20 all divers must pass a manufacturer-approved
21 training course." Second?
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. "Never exceed operating limits set down
24 herein." Do I need to explain that?
25 Q. No.
(888)811-3408
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1 A. "If a user breathes from this underwater
2 breathing apparatus without monitoring and
3 controlling the oxygen content of the breathing gas,
4 he will suffer death or severe injury. Oxygen
5 levels not controlled automatically."
6 Q. Let me back up. Warning number 3, "If the
7 user breathes from this underwater breathing
8 apparatus without monitoring and controlling the
9 oxygen content of the breathing gas, he will suffer
10 death or severe injury," is that the equivalent of
11 your PO2?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Number 4 doesn't apply to what we're
14 talking about?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. Number 5 doesn't apply. What is number 6
17 please?
18 A. "The rebreather requires a carbon dioxide
19 scrubber to be fitted and replaced in accordance
20 with the guidelines in this manual."
21 Q. Mr. Skiles didn't do that?
22 A. Well, did he fit it, and it was replaced.
23 And within its life, the scrubber worked.
24 Q. This one piece of the scrubber was out of
25 place?
(888)811-3408
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1 A. Well, a tiny grommet which is 40PPM of
2 CO2.
3 Q. What does warning number 11 --
4 A. "This rebreather must be factory serviced
5 at least once a year." Which the user did. "Do not
6 use the rebreather with overdue service in label."
7 We label every hose and the rebreather.
8 Q. This rebreather -- what's number 12?
9 A. "This rebreather must not be dived without
10 100 percent completion of predive checks, following
11 all procedures and processes as set down herein."
12 Q. Did Mr. Skiles do that with the O2ptima
13 rebreather, as far as you know?
14 A. There are a few checks that he missed, but
15 not relevant to the mishap.
16 Q. Page 2. What are the warnings --
17 MR. CONCANNON: Zoom in on the top, Eric,
18 or is it too --
20 Q. Can you read this warning to the jury,
21 sir?
22 A. "Unapproved modifications to the
23 rebreather are likely to result in your serious
24 personal injury or death.
25 "Use of the rebreather without undertaking
(888)811-3408
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1 approved training is likely to result in your
2 serious personal injury or death.
3 "Now contemplate for a moment the
4 devastating effect your death will have on your
5 children, partner, parents, wider family members and
6 friends. Think of their pain at your funeral and
7 the waste of all your potential in the future.
8 Awful, isn't it?"
9 It's to try and keep people to please
10 follow the instructions.
11 "So diving has intrinsic risk. To avoid
12 amplifying those risks, do not modify this life
13 support system, do not use it without first being
14 trained to do so by an OSEL-approved instructor, and
15 follow all procedures set down herein. Diving
16 is" --
17 Continue?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. "Diving is a hazardous activity.
20 Decompression diving, overhead environments, deep
21 diving and cave diving involve significant
22 additional inherent risks that may not be fully
23 mitigated. Solo diving is not compatible with
24 rebreathers and involves extreme risk on this
25 equipment. All equipment will fail sooner or later.
(888)811-3408
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1 You must be competent to detect that failure and
2 take appropriate action. If in doubt, bail out."
3 Q. Doctor, these are the warnings that you
4 give to prospective users of your rebreather?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. You make them available on the Internet
7 for everybody to see?
8 A. Correct.
9 Q. And you have done so since at least 2009?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Did you do that because these are
12 important rules for rebreather divers to follow
13 before they undertake rebreather diving?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. You don't want to see anybody die, do you?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. That's why you tell them to follow these
18 rules at all times?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Page 39, do you have that in what I
21 provided to you?
22 MR. CONCANNON: Page 12.
24 Q. Zoom in on the yellow, Eric. Or the top
25 of the page so you can see these portions at the
(888)811-3408
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1 top.
2 Doctor, what does that say?
3 A. "This manual is supplied with all Open
4 Safety rebreathers to provide information on basic
5 principles, physics, physiology and safety. This
6 manual is the sole user manual supplied with the
7 Apocalypse type 4 O2CCR and ICCR sports rebreathers.
8 This is not a training manual nor is it substitute
9 for proper training."
10 Q. Continue.
11 A. "Complacency danger: This rebreather is a
12 complex human life support system which operates in
13 a manner entirely different to conventional scuba or
14 other rebreathers. Using this rebreather without
15 studying and passing a manufacturer-approved
16 training course is no different from taking the
17 controls of a helicopter in flight without training.
18 It is suicidal.
19 "Complacent use of this rebreather can
20 cause serious permanent injury or death without any
21 prior warning symptoms. The user is entirely and
22 solely responsible for maintaining, inspecting and
23 operating this rebreather, for having a working
24 knowledge of the abort procedures when problems
25 arise.
(888)811-3408
1905
1 "Safe operation of this rebreather
2 requires the user to follow specific procedures on
3 every dive and to observe scrupulously the specified
4 maintenance intervals.
5 Q. Doctor, who wrote this warning?
6 A. I did.
7 Q. Do you believe -- do you take these
8 warnings seriously?
9 A. We do. We wish our customers did.
10 Q. Do you follow them, personally?
11 A. Yes. I do follow those.
12 Q. You wish your customers would take these
13 warnings seriously, don't you?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. You don't want to see anybody die?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Because eventually anything can fail?
18 A. Eventually everything fails.
19 MR. CONCANNON: Thank you, Your Honor --
20 or thank you, Doctor. No further questions.
21 THE COURT: Redirect.
22 MR. HERMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.
23 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
24 BY MR. HERMAN:
25 Q. Mr. Concannon asked you about not wanting
(888)811-3408
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1 to see people die. Is that why you test your
2 rebreather?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Is it enough to just give warnings on a
5 rebreather and not do testing?
6 A. Absolutely not. One has to test
7 rebreathers. They will fail. When you test a new
8 rebreather, it fails somewhere.
9 Q. How many tests have you done on oxygen
10 sensors in your career?
11 A. I cannot count. Published a seven-year
12 study on oxygen sensors. We had a team working just
13 characterizing oxygen sensors for years and years.
14 Q. Does water getting on the sensors, does
15 that affect all sensors with that well around it?
16 A. If water blocks any gas sensor, you get
17 the same effect.
18 Q. So every sensor out of the box is
19 vulnerable to a water block?
20 A. It's got a well, it's particularly
21 vulnerable. Our sensors don't have a well, so
22 vulnerability is much less. If someone puts in a
23 well, then it becomes a problem.
24 Q. That's why they put these warnings by the
25 manufacturer that you had a hand in writing --
(888)811-3408
1907
1 A. Correct.
2 Q. -- about water being generated by the
3 scrubber and collecting on the sensors?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Doctor, the Navy Experimental Dive Unit
6 tested the sensors that Wes Skiles was using?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What testing could you have done on those
9 sensors that would have been different or given more
10 information than the testing that the Navy
11 Experimental Dive Unit did?
12 A. Testing they did was completely adequate.
13 They showed the sensors were fully functioning.
14 Q. Counsel has talked about the sensors
15 that -- the Navy Experimental Dive Unit only being
16 tested for 60 minutes. Would you explain if there
17 is any relevance to that argument at all.
18 A. No. Sensors get worse over time. They
19 get worse when they've been recovered from accidents
20 usually. And so when a sensor has been recovered
21 from an accident and works perfectly, we can quite
22 confidently assume it was working at the time of the
23 dive. Sensors get worse.
24 In looking at those curves, there's more
25 information than just the straight curve, by the
(888)811-3408
1908
1 way. I look at what the voltage output is and why
2 one side is a little bit different. The fact is
3 those sensors worked during this dive. One sensor
4 is quite close to the age -- failed two or three
5 months after that. The other two sensors probably
6 go on for quite a while. At the time of the dive,
7 these sensors worked. Many divers use the sensors
8 until they see them start to fail.
9 Q. Doctor, you've had your rebreather at the
10 diving equipment manufacturers association's
11 convention in -- was it early 2009?
12 A. No, it was October, November, I think
13 November 2009 at the time.
14 Q. And Lamar Hires saw your equipment?
15 A. Yes, I showed him the water --
16 MR. CONCANNON: Objection, beyond the
17 scope.
19 BY MR. HERMAN:
20 Q. Counsel asked you why you didn't -- you
21 had had sales ordered, you had sold the units, but
22 didn't actually deliver the unit until 2011; is that
23 right?
24 A. That's right. Then I had to pull that
25 product because somebody else on an independent
(888)811-3408
1909
1 completely separate rebreather had an accident which
2 our staff concluded wouldn't have happened in the
3 diver had been using this. That's one item we
4 hadn't considered in the safety.
5 Q. What were you doing between when you had
6 the unit ready to go -- you could have sold the unit
7 in the United States?
8 A. Absolutely.
9 Q. You weren't able to sell it Europe
10 legally?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. What were you doing between 2009 and 2011
13 when you actually released it on sale in Europe?
14 A. We wouldn't sell something in the States
15 with a lower safety level than Europe.
16 Q. You were doing testing on the unit?
17 A. Well, we had -- at the time we showed it
18 and started collecting orders, we had an audit
19 carried out by SGS, safety audit, and there was one
20 test they wanted repeated straightforward.
21 Unfortunately, after the show, we
22 collected orders, they came back and say the UK is
23 auditing them on rebreathers because of another
24 rebreather independent to us. And they were going
25 to go through this with fine-toothed comb. So fine.
(888)811-3408
1910
1 It took two years and 2 million euro.
2 Q. Just to do more testing?
3 A. More testing, repeating testing, changing
4 the protocol of the testing by tiny little factors.
5 Q. Mr. Concannon was talking about the
6 difference between rebreathers and training on
7 different rebreathers and whether Mr. Skiles had
8 training on different rebreathers. Could you
9 describe the difference between these various
10 rebreathers on the market. Are there major
11 differences? Or are they fairly similar?
12 A. Right. ECCRs tend to be very similar to
13 each other, the handsets just change. Our
14 rebreathers are quite different, and so because
15 they're manual rebreathers, someone who is trained
16 on eCCR should get retraining for the manual because
17 it's a different product. But within the example
18 Megalodon or -- they have different handsets over
19 different periods, so if someone gets trained once
20 on Megalodon and they may be using it with totally
21 different handsets, essentially a different
22 rebreather, but very rarely you retrain.
23 So the rebreather -- each time you tend to
24 get training on one, but the training industry tries
25 to get you to pay for training. Training costs as
(888)811-3408
1911
1 much as a rebreather.
2 Q. Training is part of the business?
3 A. Yes, big business. Trainers get as much
4 as we sell a rebreather for. We have to double the
5 price of the rebreather to include training with the
6 product.
7 Q. Let me ask you about the handsets. So the
8 different rebreathers have different handsets?
9 A. Yes. The same rebreather has different
10 handsets over time.
11 Q. Do you know if there are different
12 training -- every time a rebreather gets a new
13 handsets, is there different training required? Do
14 you have to get recertified for the --
15 A. I don't -- each time I meet a diver, I
16 don't ask him his training details and everything
17 else. But speaking to them, I've just never met
18 divers to just retrain on different handsets, unless
19 they happened to be instructors and they get an
20 update. Handsets change quite often. Software
21 downloads change hands quite a lot.
22 Q. Have there been different versions of the
23 Juergensen Marine handsets as on the O2ptima?
24 A. Yes. That's why getting this one, I was
25 very specific about exactly which model we required.
(888)811-3408
1912
1 The Rev C+.
2 Q. And the handsets are the major difference
3 between electronic rebreathers?
4 A. Between these types, between the Megalodon
5 and the O2ptima, yes, they're both over-the-shoulder
6 type counterlungs. The scrubber is different. But
7 the scrubber -- marketable scrubber, one could be
8 brain dead and just fit that, it's just battery, put
9 it in, close it. Whereas the Megalodon use
10 granules, which I have to be bit more careful with.
11 Q. Mr. Concannon asked about the bailout
12 options that Wes Skiles had. Could you please tell
13 the members of the jury what bailout options Wes
14 Skiles had on July 21, 2010?
15 A. He had three. Talking about in the middle
16 of his ascent. If he realized there's a problem, he
17 could have easily done three different -- he could
18 have, first of all, switched into SER mode. That's
19 a normal mode when the rebreather fails.
20 What that means is that you stick some
21 oxygen in to start with, press the oxygen injector
22 button, which is here, and then every third or
23 fourth breath, you breathe out, and that will cause
24 the ALV to fire and keep giving you gas. So every
25 third or fourth breath, you exhaust, and you can do
(888)811-3408
1913
1 quite a long dive on a small cylinder if basically
2 you're only exhausting one breath in four. Here you
3 exhaust every breath.
4 Q. You can just press one of these buttons
5 and inject air?
6 A. The other side injects oxygen. And at
7 30 feet, I would be switching to oxygen and just go
8 to the surface. That's the first one, just go to
9 SER mode. 30 feet is a little bit deep for sports
10 divers to be using oxygen. But my background, I
11 would switch straight to oxygen mode. Nearer the
12 surface, he could go on pure oxygen. That's fourth.
13 Bailout.
14 So the second bailout he had available,
15 which is to take the mouthpiece out and swim to the
16 surface. The gas in your lungs expands as you go
17 up, and so -- I've done this from well over a
18 hundred feet. At 20 feet, just take the mouthpiece
19 out and go to the surface.
20 Now, rebreather divers are trained to take
21 the mouthpiece out -- should be -- and open circuit
22 trained to keep it in because as you go up, the gas
23 expands and you get an extra breath or two. But
24 I've done it from really quite deep. The gas in
25 your lungs expands, you don't feel you want to
(888)811-3408
1914
1 breathe. Just amazingly, gas is coming out of your
2 mouth because the pressure is reducing, gas is
3 expanding, and you go up to the surface. Just take
4 it out and swim up.
5 The third one is if there wasn't an
6 overhead environment here, but, say, he looked up,
7 oh, dear, I'm straight underneath the boat, just 30
8 feet back down, just swim back down and grab the
9 cylinder. Easy.
10 Q. Was Wes -- did he have any decompression
11 obligation when he was --
12 A. No.
13 Q. -- on his way up?
14 A. No. He's really conservative on the
15 decompression.
16 Q. He was with the other divers down at the
17 bottom until his decompression was over?
18 A. Correct.
19 Q. And then he just -- he's there with the
20 bailout, community bailout bottle?
21 A. It would be quite close to him. He could
22 swim to it.
23 Q. And then he starts going up?
24 A. Yes. And we wouldn't call that solo dive,
25 by the way. Solo diving. He's with a group just
(888)811-3408
1915
1 going to the surface.
2 Q. Doctor, Mr. Concannon asked you about
3 this -- it's not there -- the grommet?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did that play any role, whatsoever, in the
6 death of Wes Skiles?
7 A. None whatsoever.
8 Q. Please tell us why.
9 MR. CONCANNON: Objection, Your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Overruled. Come on up.
12 THE COURT: I think you need to rephrase
13 the question. Because I think you'll get the
14 same thing. Does it play a role in the
15 equipment malfunctioning and giving too much
16 CO2 that would cause someone to pass out.
17 MR. CONCANNON: That's the dose-response.
18 THE COURT: How would a medical examiner
19 know that equipment malfunctioned enough to
20 give -- or even to give CO2?
21 MR. HERMAN: He opened the door.
22 MR. CONCANNON: CO2 has a narcotic effect
23 130 times more powerful than nitrogen. So the
24 at -- and they crossed Dr. Sawatzky for an hour
25 and a half on this issue.
(888)811-3408
1916
1 THE COURT: Be careful. I'm not going to
2 let doctor after doctor and come in and testify
3 to the same thing he's testifying to.
4 MR. HERMAN: We don't have a doctor.
5 THE COURT: You said Dr. Sawatzky.
6 MR. CONCANNON: My doctor. They were
7 saying my doctor, the diving doctor, can't even
8 testify to the dose-response. And they're
9 going to let their engineer.
10 MR. HERMAN: He's going to say the amount
11 of CO2 was so minimal. They did a test on it
12 and they showed --
13 MR. SPOHRER: We need to leave time for
14 their questions.
15 THE COURT: I think you need to rephrase
16 your question.
17 MR. HERMAN: Sure.
19 BY MR. HERMAN:
20 Q. Did you measure the amount of carbon
21 dioxide, if any, that was leaking through the inside
22 of the scrubber?
23 A. Yes. We calculated and measured it, and I
24 did my dives without the grommet -- I left it out
25 deliberately.
(888)811-3408
1917
1 Q. And what effect would that have had -- did
2 that cause a failure in this case?
3 A. None. The amount of carbon dioxide, the
4 bypass, is really tiny.
5 Q. Did you review the testing done by Martin
6 Parker, one of the Defense witnesses?
7 A. Yes. He initially suggested that was the
8 cause of the accident. I'll point out this is
9 absurd, because the numbers are obviously out by a
10 factor of a hundred. So, he asked me to do the
11 actual test, because it's obviously wrong. So, I
12 did the test and came up with similar sort of
13 numbers calculated. I did it quite slow, because
14 the fast system we had was in use.
15 Q. Did you review the actual testing and the
16 documents --
17 A. NEDU.
18 Q. -- from Defense reports?
19 A. Two figures that seem to straddle our
20 figure, and he comes up with a number which, again,
21 is so low it doesn't make any effect. CO2 in this
22 room is more than the diver's breathing in.
23 Q. The Defense witness agrees that it's a
24 very low number?
25 A. Correct.
(888)811-3408
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1 Q. Finally, Doctor, Mr. Concannon made this
2 diagram over here. Scott Braunsroth, the person on
3 the boat, he's going to come in -- well, we're going
4 to have his deposition testimony for the jury. Do
5 you remember his deposition testimony that the boat
6 was not anchored over the divers?
7 MR. CONCANNON: Objection. He's
8 testifying now, not the witness.
9 THE COURT: He just asked him if he
10 remembered in the depo. Is that what you're
11 objecting to?
12 MR. CONCANNON: Yes.
14 MR. CONCANNON: The depo he didn't read.
15 A. I only read part of the PTX file, and I
16 had to use Acrobat in order to open it. It's a real
17 pain because the text listed with all sorts of funny
18 characters, so I only read part of it because he
19 wasn't underwater. I was able exclude he's not
20 underwater, he didn't see it; therefore, rule it
21 out. I'm only interested in what caused this
22 mishap.
23 BY MR. HERMAN:
24 Q. The anchor -- actually what was anchored
25 to the bailout bottle, do you remember if that was
(888)811-3408
1919
1 attached to dive surface bouy?
2 MR. CONCANNON: Objection.
4 BY MR. HERMAN:
5 Q. Do you remember what the rope was that Wes
6 Skiles was ascending up?
7 A. I don't.
8 Q. Doctor, do you know if the boat was
9 anchored like it's drawn there, this picture, or if
10 it was drifting in the ocean?
11 A. I do remember going through this, but,
12 again, I have tunnel vision -- is the fact relevant
13 to the mishap, and as soon it's not, I just go
14 straight through it. I've got thousands of pages to
15 go through, and if it's not relevant to the mishap,
16 I'm not interested. So I do remember reading it,
17 but this was some while ago.
18 Q. Fair enough, Doctor. Did the questions
19 that Mr. Concannon asked you on cross examination,
20 do they change your conclusions in any way that the
21 O2ptima rebreather failed and that led to the
22 drowning of Wes Skiles?
24 THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase your
25 question.
(888)811-3408
1920
1 BY MR. HERMAN:
2 Q. Did the questioning of Mr. Concannon in
3 any way change your opinion that the O2ptima
4 rebreather in this case that Wes Skiles was using
5 failed?
8 A. No, the items he brought up were items
9 which were, quite frankly, not pertinent to the
10 mishap. The cylinders do not burn, the cylinders
11 held the gas, they didn't leak. These items are not
12 relevant to the mishap.
13 There's one error I may have made or two
14 names I swapped over when Mr. Concannon asked me
15 about. Mr. Bailey is one with the coroner that said
16 went out with the light. The other one Mr. Brent
17 Cooper, where the diver is with him, so the displays
18 were fine both with O2ptima, displays on the video
19 were fine, where the sudden loss of consciousness
20 occurred --
21 MR. CONCANNON: Objection. Move to
22 strike.
23 THE COURT: Sustained. That was not even
24 to a question.
25
(888)811-3408
1921
1 BY MR. HERMAN:
2 Q. Doctor, did -- Mr. Concannon asked you
3 some questions about other deaths involving a water
4 block. Do you remember reading what John Clarke
5 from the Navy Experimental Dive Unit has said about
6 water blocks?
7 A. I do, but I read so much that -- he's done
8 an article about water blocks.
9 MR. HERMAN: Thank you. We have no
10 further questions.
11 THE COURT: Great. We'll turn to the
12 jurors. Do any of the jurors have any
13 questions? If I can have the attorneys
14 approach.
16 THE COURT: "What is the lifespan on the
17 hydrophobic membrane located on the oxygen
18 sensors produced by Analytical Industries?"
19 MR. SPOHRER: Okay.
20 THE COURT: Do you have another one? No.
22 THE COURT: If I may ask a question on
23 behalf of the jurors, Doctor.
24 JURY QUESTIONS
25 THE COURT: "What is the lifespan on the
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1 hydrophobic membrane located on the oxygen
2 sensors produced by Analytical Industries?"
3 THE WITNESS: Lifespan is indefinite.
4 It's a type of -- the lifespan of that membrane
5 is almost indefinite. That is not what fails
6 in the sensor. It's a type of PGFE. And it
7 would -- I could go back to it and 30 years
8 later, I wouldn't expect to see any significant
9 change.
10 THE COURT: Any other questions? All
11 right. Seeing none, we're concluding. It's
12 5:00. Doctor, you can go ahead and step down.
13 We are done for the weekend.
14 I want to remind you Monday is when you
15 might run into some problems with the downtown
16 railroad being closed. Since you're coming in
17 at 10:00, I hope it won't be too bad for you.
18 Alternative routes will be Palm Beach Lakes or
19 Belvedere or Southern, if you wanted to come up
20 one of those back ways. So I will just remind
21 you of that.
22 I know the weekend is coming. I know
23 you're going to think about this case all
24 weekend. I was waiting for the laughter.
25 Perfect. You guys are doing it. Go home,
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1 forget about this case, do not discuss this
2 case with anyone or amongst yourselves. Do not
3 do any research about the case. Please do not
4 read any news articles about the case. Do not
5 blog, Tweet, Facebook, any social media about
6 the case. I'm sorry; I tell you that at every
7 break. I know it's annoying.
8 If -- after this case when you are allowed
9 to research, you can go back and find out about
10 how many times we've had juror misconduct even
11 though we give that instruction at every break,
12 and you will be shocked. So I do it to just
13 remind you of the importance of it.
14 With that, you guys have a great weekend.
15 Thank you for working so hard this week. I've
16 seen you taking notes. We appreciate that.
17 Leave those behind. We'll lock those up. You
18 guys have a great weekend. I'll see everybody
19 Monday at 10:00.
20 Just on Monday, because I can't say it, my
21 JA is not here, Monday at 2:00 we're going to
22 take a 15-minute break because my JA is getting
23 an award. So I just want to run down, present
24 her with that award, and then I'll run back up.
25 So just remember at 2:00, we'll take a
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1 15-minute break. I promise I'll make it quick.
2 You guys have a great weekend.
3 (Proceedings concluded for the day at 5:10
4 p.m., and will continue in Volume 15.)
5
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COURT CERTIFICATE
STATE OF FLORIDA
COUNTY OF PALM BEACH
I, KIMBERLY FONTALVO, Registered

Professional Reporter, certify that I was
authorized to and did stenographically report
the foregoing proceedings and that the
transcript is a true and complete record of my
stenographic notes.
Dated this 13th day of May, 2016.
________________________________
KIMBERLY FONTALVO, RPR, CLR
Realtime Systems Administrator
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answered apparatus argument 1912:11 1754:3
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anyway 1791:21 1921:14 1808:20 1816:21 1891:5
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1837:16,16 1824:23 bang 1866:24 bent 1892:17 1859:2
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caves 1757:25 1766:6 1885:4,6 1794:8 1795:3 1809:2,3
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1759:20,23 1772:23,24 1776:11 1841:21 1865:1
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1787:21 1775:2 1776:4 changes 1765:22 checks 1901:10 Clarke's
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centimeters 1772:20 characterizati... 1828:20 1751:5 1772:3
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1788:20 1774:18 characterizing children 1902:5 1821:13
1794:16 1777:23 1906:13 Christmas 1832:23
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1875:14 1817:1 charged 1785:2 1794:20,21,22 1824:23
certainty 1834:25 check 1748:2 1794:23 1841:5,16
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clip 1783:2 1784:5 1865:21 1828:8 1849:8
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1908:4 1912:9 1884:12 1763:1 1901:10 1856:8
1914:21 1915:10 1798:23 complex 1857:13,15
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1796:8 1922:19 1914:20 1904:12 1863:2,22
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1822:23 1875:12 company's 1835:12,14,24 1871:2 1872:2
closeup 1877:8 1917:20 1855:1 1836:15 1872:7,12,15
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CLR 1740:24 1825:17 comparison 1802:24 1879:21
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CO2 1865:8 1880:1 1830:1 1742:8 1743:8 1884:9 1886:3
1866:24 1884:15 compatible 1743:20 1886:5
1869:9,10 1914:1 1902:23 1744:3,10,22 1889:17
1901:2 1922:16,22 competence 1745:6,7,9 1891:1
1915:16,20,22 commented 1798:11 1749:8 1892:24
1916:11 1801:2 competent 1758:23 1893:8 1894:5
1917:21 1806:22 1903:1 1771:4 1894:6
coast 1780:20 1839:11 Complacency 1779:10 1895:22
1810:25 1853:15 1904:11 1783:3 1785:7 1896:2,10,13
coat 1861:5 comments Complacent 1792:4 1896:23
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collect 1890:8 1756:6,7 1778:25 1826:14,16 1903:22,23
collected 1760:7 1842:6 1830:23 1905:19,25
1909:22 1761:18,20,21 1851:15 1831:10,13,15 1908:16
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1912:11 1798:15 contact 1751:1 1908:11 1780:13,17,18
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1919:2,19,23 1875:11 1791:1 1823:10 1786:20
1920:2,6,14,21 conference container cool 1868:12 1791:17
1921:2 1844:13,13 1886:11 coolest 1865:11 1792:20
concept 1761:2 conferences contains 1867:3 Cooper 1847:21 1796:9,11,14
concern 1805:11 1844:12 contemplate 1848:5,17,20 1796:15,18
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concerned 1907:22 contempt 1849:2 1802:21
1845:6 configuration 1884:2 1920:17 1804:4,5,9
concessionary 1791:4 content 1900:3,9 copy 1855:4,6,8 1806:13
1785:21 connect 1762:18 context 1769:13 1898:17 1809:5
1786:3,6,11,12 Connecticut continue 1745:3 COREY 1741:7 1810:12,13
1787:5 1743:14 1819:24 corey@roman... 1812:10,13,14
concluded consciousness 1902:17 1741:7 1812:16,17
1785:6 1799:3,9 1904:10 coroner 1842:3 1813:23,24
1819:23 1800:21 1924:4 1848:10,14 1814:1,16,17
1842:5,14,17 1801:9,12 continued 1920:15 1814:19
1847:13 1806:5 1826:7 1743:1 Corporation 1815:18,23
1848:11 1845:1 1848:6 continuously 1740:11,12 1821:16,20,22
1854:18 1849:11 1883:24 correct 1745:19 1821:23
1884:8 1896:6 1850:3 1852:4 control 1750:9 1745:20,23 1822:10,14,16
1909:2 1852:8,9,11 1760:12 1746:1,2,11,12 1822:20
1916:18 1920:19 1761:7 1746:14,15 1825:3 1826:8
1921:21 conservative 1770:14,18,20 1747:2,22 1837:17,18,20
1924:3 1914:14 1771:18,21,24 1748:6 1837:21
concluding consider 1750:2 1772:1 1749:12,13 1840:3 1844:9
1922:11 1750:4 controlled 1751:25 1850:5,9
conclusions 1761:18 1817:1 1753:1 1853:6
1897:24 1788:25 1860:11 1754:11 1854:15
1919:20 1789:20 1900:5 1755:2 1756:1 1856:17
condensation 1790:13 controller 1756:12,13 1858:15
1857:18 1796:2 1803:1 1753:13 1759:20 1859:1 1860:9
1861:18,22 1803:12 1821:1 1871:6 1762:5,8,10,12 1861:3,13
condition 1897:2 1872:21 1762:24 1862:1
1861:11 considerably 1893:22 1763:11 1863:10,18,19
conditions 1761:9 controllers 1765:18 1864:8,14
1748:21 considered 1753:14 1767:11,12 1865:12
1749:3 1752:5 1750:5 1909:4 controlling 1768:8 1867:10
1754:20 constant 1747:8 1900:3,8 1772:11,15 1868:2,8
1761:25 1866:20 controls 1824:23 1774:23,24 1869:2,3,7,12
1763:20 consultant 1904:17 1775:5 1871:7,8,17,19
1802:24,25 1872:9 controversy 1777:24 1872:22
1809:13,16,18 consuming 1883:3 1778:6 1876:10
(888)811-3408
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1877:1,4,9,10 County 1740:1 1882:4 1883:4 1768:13 1784:14,14

1877:24 1740:19 1883:11,13,15 credited 1788:11
1878:1,18 1810:17 1884:7 1886:1 1854:21,23 1791:15
1879:24 1811:6 1925:5 1889:16 crest 1804:12 1793:14,19
1880:7,25 couple 1894:21 1890:22 Crime 1812:11 1795:14,22,25
1881:16 course 1807:8 1895:20,23,25 1839:15 1814:13
1882:22 1889:7 1896:3,7,11 critical 1794:1 1888:5,19
1887:14,21 1899:21 1898:14,18,21 1863:5 1890:17
1888:9,10,16 1904:16 1905:21 criticisms 1897:17,18,19
1889:5 1890:6 courses 1772:17 1908:18 1887:1 1913:1 1914:9
1890:7,20 1772:21 1915:10,12,18 cross 1742:8 cylinders
1891:3 court 1740:1 1916:1,5,15 1744:8 1745:3 1774:13,14,16
1892:14 1743:2,2,4,13 1918:9,13 1745:8 1789:11
1894:12 1743:14,18,25 1919:3,24 1838:13 1791:12
1897:6 1744:4,8,19,25 1920:7,23 1845:10 1888:5
1900:15 1748:22,25 1921:11,16,20 1855:11 1890:16
1903:5,8,10,16 1758:14 1921:22,25 1919:19 1920:10,10
1903:19 1770:24 1922:10 crossed 1915:24
1905:16 1778:12,15,17 1925:1 CSI 1812:18 D
1907:1,4 1778:20 Courthouse 1813:6 1814:4 D 1742:1
1909:11 1797:8 1740:19 1815:25 d/b/a 1740:8
1914:18 1809:10 courtroom cumulative damage 1857:22
1917:25 1818:11,15,19 1744:24 1809:9 DAN 1844:12,13
corrected 1818:21 1837:20 Current danger 1904:11
1840:22 1819:4,13,20 1838:11,25 1765:24 dangerous
correctly 1819:22 1899:6 currently 1751:15
1811:21 1826:15 cover 1785:14 1786:19 1889:6
1841:3 1830:22 1785:25 curve 1907:25 data 1763:6
corrects 1826:4 1831:12 1786:9 1869:2 curves 1907:24 1790:19
cost 1786:5,10 1833:24 coverage cushion 1867:10 1802:24
1847:2 1837:23 1858:13,15,24 custody 1811:12 1803:5,7
costs 1752:7 1838:1,15,21 1859:3,7,9,11 1811:16 1835:20,21
1785:11,14,15 1838:21,22,24 1861:14,23 1812:3,4,9 1837:7,13
1785:25 1839:1 1843:2 covered 1743:12 1814:12,15 date 1740:18
1786:9 1843:5,8 1766:13 1817:2 1835:1 1772:16
1910:25 1845:3,6,18,24 1828:8 1835:3 1773:4
counsel 1885:24 1846:3,13,20 covering 1836:16,18 1833:15
1907:14 1847:1,9,14,22 1868:11 1859:13 1848:23
1908:20 1849:4 covers 1785:11 1860:5 1861:6 1863:4,6,11,14
count 1906:11 1855:16 cracking 1885:4,6 1863:15
counterlung 1856:7 1793:23,24 customer 1880:10
1781:14 1867:23 1794:15,25 1786:13 1882:1
1826:22 1870:14 created 1827:15 customers 1887:13
1875:16 1871:25 1862:10 1759:14 1888:9,9,11,20
counterlungs 1872:4,11 creates 1869:17 1905:9,12 1889:20
1792:15 1875:22 1875:23 cut 1765:5,6,8 1890:14
1898:4 1912:6 1879:18 creature cylinder dated 1854:14
(888)811-3408
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1925:14 1902:2,4 1742:15 depth 1754:1 1851:18

dates 1880:5,6,9 1904:20 1845:25 1756:12,14 designing
1880:12 1915:6 1898:23 1780:4 1825:2 1780:12
1881:10,15,19 deaths 1847:6 1917:6,18,23 1825:20,21 desired 1753:23
1881:20,21,23 1921:3 Definitely 1826:3 destroy 1815:7
1881:24 decade 1862:11 1757:15 deputy 1743:2 detail 1769:23
1882:12,18 Deceased 1740:5 degrees 1865:10 1810:17 1779:25
1883:2 December 1865:15 1811:6,11 1811:4,5
1889:23 1778:24,24 1866:3,5,14 1812:7 1813:11
DAVID 1741:19 1779:8 deliberately 1838:21,24 detailed 1778:23
1741:21 1848:18,24 1916:25 Derrick 1740:10 1812:23,24
david@david... 1888:7,11,22 deliver 1908:22 1814:16,18 1813:10
1741:21 1889:2 demonstrated 1815:1,5,6,17 1814:10
day 1769:6,8,16 decent 1894:18 1829:14 1815:22 1832:13
1769:18 decide 1743:16 1851:2 1852:5 1871:6 1887:1 1842:9
1770:4 decides 1754:7 demonstration 1887:22 details 1911:16
1771:12 decision 1777:5 1866:23 Derrick's detect 1903:1
1785:13,14,16 decompression denying 1773:16 1813:18 determine
1787:2,4 1757:22 depend 1819:16 1870:24 1802:4 1872:1
1791:12 1758:3 1819:17 descending 1872:2
1806:20 1772:14 dependent 1795:8,9 determined
1809:14 1902:20 1780:4 1799:16 1760:8 1871:9
1814:11 1914:10,15,17 depending descends determines
1832:4 decreases 1841:6 1821:21 1753:11
1835:15 1858:13 depends descent 1793:18 determining
1836:24 deep 1757:3 1820:21 1800:12 1863:5
1865:23 1773:6,10,12 1822:2 describe devastating
1879:23 1773:12 1825:20 1779:25 1902:4
1882:14 1774:4,11 1864:19,21 1782:10 developed
1890:1 1924:3 1818:3 1882:5 1816:11 1831:5
1925:14 1823:21 depict 1862:22 1910:9 1853:19,21
days 1832:4 1902:20 depo 1918:10,14 described device 1768:14
1855:12 1913:9,24 deposition 1790:25 1829:16
1879:23 deep-diving 1743:9 1811:20 1868:20
1882:13 1798:14 1752:21 1843:18 1892:4 1893:9
1890:11 deeper 1817:25 1769:14 describes 1893:20
dead 1912:8 1818:1 1820:8 1770:7,9 1816:12 dherman@sp...
dear 1914:7 defect 1857:21 1784:21 design 1752:16 1741:11
Deas 1742:7 defective 1788:25 1761:11 diagram 1918:2
1745:2,4,10 1749:11 1789:21 1765:20 dialogue
1797:8 Defendant 1796:2 1785:15 1853:21
Deas' 1743:16 1741:18 1807:15,20 1786:1 diameter
1890:19 Defendant's 1808:22 1843:19 1868:24
death 1842:7 1898:13,14 1918:4,5 1851:21 die 1842:18
1843:10 Defendants depositions 1865:10 1850:16
1900:4,10 1740:13 1790:7 designed 1903:15
1901:24 defense 1742:12 1795:20 1785:14 1905:15
(888)811-3408
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1906:1 1767:22 displayed 1811:12 1764:23

died 1762:11 1774:16 1821:14 1815:2 1817:1 1769:9,19
1765:14 1798:25 displays 1817:24 1773:10,11
1835:15 1809:16 1760:23 1818:7 1826:1 1774:11
differ 1843:15 1897:25 1763:21 1830:15,15 1781:10
difference diffusion 1791:21 1833:14 1787:21
1757:17,18 1857:19 1848:16 1835:5,12,14 1792:16
1816:2 digit 1863:12 1873:18 1835:23,23 1793:16
1828:12 digits 1863:17 1920:17,18 1836:10,13 1796:12
1841:17 diluent 1788:10 disrespectful 1842:20 1797:2
1866:18 1788:17 1883:15,16 1844:8 1798:23
1910:6,9 1793:7,7,14,16 dissolved 1856:15 1803:18
1912:2 1793:17 1828:15 1864:18,25 1804:23,24
differences 1794:3 distance 1865:2,23,24 1805:4,5,6,9
1766:20 dim 1895:6 1793:22,23 1881:23 1806:13,14,15
1910:11 dioxide 1764:23 1794:1 1882:2,17 1806:15,18,20
different 1869:5,8,22 DIVA 1892:6 1888:6 1890:6 1806:24
1745:21 1900:18 dive 1740:8,8,9 1890:12,15,17 1807:4,5,5,6,7
1756:8 1916:21 1740:9 1891:19 1807:10,13,13
1758:22 1917:3 1748:13,17,21 1892:25 1807:16,24
1760:13 dip 1826:2 1749:4,5,11 1893:4,16,24 1808:7,10,13
1761:2 disabling 1802:6 1750:1 1894:1 1905:3 1809:7
1763:25 disconnect 1751:15 1907:5,11,15 1821:21
1783:17 1762:19 1754:14,20,22 1907:23 1822:7,23
1820:1 1764:16 1754:24 1908:3,6 1823:11
1823:14 discovered 1757:3 1913:1 1824:6 1825:5
1841:21 1795:13 1759:13 1914:24 1825:12
1850:25 Discovery 1761:1 1919:1 1921:5 1826:3,6,19
1852:10 1801:17 1763:12 dived 1766:24 1828:3,10
1860:15,18 discuss 1838:6 1767:19,21,24 1770:13 1840:12,18
1862:4 1923:1 1770:5 1773:9 1775:12,13,21 1841:24
1873:11,19 discussion 1775:3,10 1780:2 1781:6 1842:8,9,18
1879:3 1892:8 1818:20 1776:2,8,14,16 1891:22 1843:4 1848:7
1904:13,16 1838:23 1777:7,10 1901:9 1848:14
1907:9 1908:2 1845:5 1779:20 diver 1746:21 1849:10,20
1910:7,8,14,17 1883:12 1780:2,20,21 1747:15,24 1850:1,11
1910:18,19,21 1895:24 1781:1 1750:24,25 1864:10
1910:21 1915:11 1783:15 1751:1,21 1865:19
1911:8,8,9,11 1921:15 1787:15,20,22 1753:12 1869:10,15
1911:13,18,22 dislodged 1787:24,25 1754:7,7,18 1875:8
1912:6,17 1852:17,18,19 1788:7 1789:5 1755:10,13,14 1880:10,11
differential Disney 1759:9 1790:11 1755:16,20,20 1881:22,25
1793:21 Disney's 1791:5,13,24 1756:15,21 1909:3
1794:4 1759:19 1793:14,15 1758:2,4,16,18 1911:15
differently display 1760:17 1799:6 1760:11 1920:17
1873:10 1818:6 1871:6 1802:16,24 1762:22 diver's 1757:24
difficult 1756:22 1873:23 1810:1 1763:12,13,15 1794:14
(888)811-3408
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1842:7 1852:3 1784:16 1903:13 1881:15 1858:11

1876:14 1787:16,17 1908:10 1882:15 1861:11
1917:22 1804:1 1914:25 1884:10 1866:12
divers 1748:5,8 1807:14,19,21 1916:7 1889:18 1871:18
1748:12 1808:1,4,5,14 divisions 1853:9 1891:2 1875:20
1751:4 1808:20,21 divorce 1743:10 1896:14 1883:13
1757:14,25 1809:1,2,3 1743:11,21 1898:7,25 1892:7,23
1758:16 1916:24 Dixie 1740:19 1903:3 1904:2 1893:18
1760:1,2,9 diving 1747:22 dock 1812:2 1905:5,20 1894:7 1909:5
1761:7,8 1752:18 1816:6,14,15 1907:5 1908:9 1909:12,16
1779:20,22 1753:15 1816:17 1915:2 1916:2 1922:25
1796:8,18,24 1756:6,7 1817:6,9,15,18 1916:2,4,6,7,7 dollar 1786:20
1797:1,5 1757:13,17,18 1839:16 1918:1 1919:8 1786:21,22
1798:1,2,9 1757:19,19,20 1840:5,7 1919:18 Don 1816:20
1800:3,18,19 1757:23,25 1852:16 1921:2,23 door 1915:21
1800:19 1758:1,5 docks 1810:10 1922:12 dose-response
1801:1,8,10,11 1760:7,15 doctor 1749:9 document 1915:17
1801:13 1761:20,21,24 1765:2 1770:1 1853:4,24 1916:8
1803:22 1763:19,21 1776:2 1854:1 double 1789:25
1804:10,16 1764:9,16 1783:13 1855:22 1806:4 1822:6
1805:1,3,8,13 1765:21 1801:7,18 1857:17 1822:7 1911:4
1805:17 1768:6,10,15 1809:19 1898:25 double-check
1806:6 1807:2 1770:17,17 1813:3,21 document's 1789:22
1807:3 1811:8 1771:8,24 1815:24 1854:14 doubled 1752:6
1825:9 1833:3 1772:15,18,18 1820:12 documents 1752:8
1850:25 1773:6,12,12 1827:3 1917:16 doubles 1822:1
1864:10 1773:13 1828:19 DODD 1741:13 doubt 1903:2
1882:5,13 1774:18 1830:17 dogmatic 1770:7 doubtful
1890:4 1776:1 1835:3 1771:11 1743:16
1899:13,20 1779:21,22 1841:12 doing 1756:15 dove 1777:21,22
1903:12 1780:12 1843:24 1764:20 1780:9
1908:7 1789:10 1845:2 1768:25 download
1911:18 1797:1 1806:3 1847:14 1773:5 1774:9 1837:11
1913:10,20 1806:16 1849:1,3 1774:10,14 downloaded
1914:16 1807:8 1808:3 1855:11 1776:13 1837:6
1918:6 1808:4,25 1858:11 1779:4 downloads
dives 1758:10 1809:15 1859:12 1781:16,19 1911:21
1768:19,22,25 1825:9 1842:2 1860:5 1787:4,12 downtown
1769:1,20,24 1844:13 1862:17 1792:5,8,17 1922:15
1770:3 1773:2 1851:7 1856:9 1866:22 1797:15 downwards
1773:6,7 1863:8 1864:3 1867:25 1801:5 1806:7 1867:20
1774:14 1864:11,12 1868:20 1806:10 Dr 1745:2,4,10
1777:15,19 1893:6 1894:9 1870:2,4,6,7 1807:8 1797:8
1778:4 1897:8 1870:18,21 1826:19 1800:22
1779:15,18,25 1902:11,15,19 1872:16 1842:20 1801:3,4,16
1781:3,4,5 1902:20,21,21 1873:5 1876:8 1851:10 1803:24
1783:20 1902:23 1876:12 1856:25 1806:21
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1807:12,17 due 1756:19 1915:22 1831:21 1875:23

1808:7,10,15 1785:3 1917:1,21 engineer 1916:9 1887:2 1888:8
1809:4 1812:5 1843:21 effort 1860:19 engineering 1889:9
1813:13 1849:11 eight 1774:14 1764:3 1902:25,25
1816:19,20 dump 1764:18 either 1756:2 1801:20 1908:10,14
1817:14 duration 1878:13 England 1915:15,19
1820:1 1839:7 1761:22 electricomech... 1828:22 equivalent
1842:20 1887:25 1856:2 Englehardt 1828:13
1843:8,17,25 DUSTIN electronic 1797:2,12 1900:10
1844:7,7,16,17 1741:11 1753:1,4 1800:5,6,8,13 Eric 1853:1
1844:22,23 1754:12 1800:16 1857:13
1846:4 E 1759:24 1801:2 1862:25
1890:19 E 1740:10 1760:3,6 1806:12 1863:23
1915:24 1742:1 1753:1 1912:3 1816:20 1870:22
1916:5 EA143 1756:19 Electronically Englehardt's 1872:14
draft 1853:4,13 Eagle 1741:19 1753:9 1806:16 1874:4 1877:5
1853:23 earlier 1765:17 electronically-... enlarge 1857:14 1898:10
1855:4,8 1766:25 1756:5 1863:1,24 1901:17
1857:17 1767:5 1813:2 electronics enormous 1903:24
drafted 1854:25 1816:3 1878:3 1747:16,18 1853:14 error 1920:13
drafting 1878:20 1754:8 1765:1 1856:21 escape 1823:24
1854:22 1882:14 Eleven 1765:19 ensure 1798:24 1869:5
Drager 1774:20 1888:6 eliminates entered 1744:24 1875:10
1774:22 early 1768:16 1829:22 1809:25 escapes 1869:9
drain 1828:13 1774:13 elimination 1838:25 escaping 1804:3
draw 1897:24 1778:7 1829:22 entering 1823:24
drawn 1919:9 1908:11 Elizabeth 1838:24 ESER 1756:5
drifting 1843:20 easily 1873:19 1812:12 entire 1808:15 ESQ 1741:6,7
1919:10 1875:11 1839:16 1886:8,17,19 1741:15,25
drilling 1887:6 1912:17 emailing 1838:5 entirely 1904:13 ESQUIRE
driving 1773:21 East 1741:9 emails 1855:10 1904:21 1741:11,21
drop 1785:4 easy 1829:17 embodied environment essentially
1825:18 1914:9 1863:4 1757:21 1757:20
1827:6 1859:8 eCCR 1752:24 emphasize 1859:17 1894:14
1894:23 1755:18,22 1752:4 1914:6 1910:21
droplets 1756:4,7 1759:14 environments established
1861:21 1762:1 empty 1793:8,15 1902:20 1812:8 1883:4
dropoff 1831:22 1910:16 1793:19 equipment Estate 1740:4
dropped ECCRs 1910:12 1794:3 1763:11 euro 1786:16,17
1785:19 edge 1867:18 1795:14,22,25 1791:4 1910:1
1879:8,10 education ended 1885:22 1811:16,17,18 Europe 1750:13
dropping 1829:6 enforce 1750:12 1812:15,19 1909:9,13,15
1840:9,10 EEC 1852:19 1750:13 1814:12,14 European
drops 1827:6,7,8 effect 1797:12 enforcement 1817:1,4 1756:19
drowning 1826:24 1814:19,21 1834:6,15 euros 1785:16
1919:22 1902:4 1815:21 1835:18 1785:18
DSZ 1890:19 1906:17 engaged 1836:17 evaluation
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1832:14 1890:11,13,14 1826:2 1899:24 1919:12

evenly 1874:12 examiner 1838:16 1907:16 factor 1917:10
1874:13 1814:11,23 1875:5 1922:8 explained factors 1910:4
event 1848:4 1829:24 expected 1794:16 factory 1765:25
eventually 1837:7 1842:3 1792:15 explains 1858:6 1901:4
1827:5,15 1887:2 1839:9 exposed 1860:24 facts 1770:2,4,6
1905:17,18 1915:18 expeditions EXPRESS 1790:20
everybody examiner's 1773:11 1740:8,9,9,9 1795:23
1870:14 1870:24 1774:5,7,9 extend 1867:16 1802:18
1903:7 1872:10 1798:14,19 extended 1829:21
1923:18 examining 1805:8 1772:22 factual 1770:20
evidence 1787:24 experience extensive 1771:6
1782:23 example 1759:18 1813:22 1802:19
1793:12 1753:15,19 1761:19 1853:16 Fahrenheit
1800:15 1754:2 1762:3 1772:5 1856:25 1865:10,15,21
1801:11 1758:17 1776:23 external 1866:8
1802:11 1761:1 1777:6 1813:11 fail 1902:25
1811:21 1773:25 1780:11 extra 1758:14 1905:17
1813:4,8 1887:12 1798:16 1822:4 1906:7 1908:8
1815:7 1895:4 1801:6 1849:21 failed 1892:3
1829:24 1910:17 1803:25,25 1913:23 1908:4
1871:5,20,24 exceed 1899:23 1808:17,19,24 extract 1803:7 1919:21
exact 1780:6 exceptional 1808:25 extrapolating 1920:5
1813:14,15 1762:3 1822:22 1771:13 fails 1896:21
1831:7 exclude 1803:9 1897:8 extreme 1902:24 1905:18
1832:24 1841:2,18 experienced extremely 1906:8
1834:17 1918:19 1807:4,12,23 1770:7 1860:4 1912:19
exactly 1744:3 exhaust 1912:25 1809:7 1922:5
1744:14 1913:3 experimental F failure 1864:5
1776:7 exhausting 1835:5 F 1741:6,15,23 1903:1 1917:2
1810:24 1913:2 1842:20 1741:25 failures 1829:23
1836:11 exhibit 1742:15 1844:8 f/k/a 1740:8 fair 1849:23
1880:11 1853:1 1864:25 face 1795:16 1883:22
1881:11 1898:11,23 1907:5,11,15 1895:11 1919:18
1885:9 EXHIBITS 1921:5 Facebook fairly 1855:6
1911:25 1742:12 expert 1749:10 1923:5 1910:11
exam 1887:2 existed 1773:25 1749:24 faced 1862:18 fall 1825:22
examination exited 1838:11 1778:9 1785:8 facedown falling 1825:25
1742:3 1744:9 expand 1799:24 1790:4 1795:16,19 falls 1823:25
1745:3,8 expanding 1801:19 facility 1891:8 familiar 1882:8
1838:13 1804:3 1914:3 1813:22 facing 1832:8 family 1837:10
1855:11 expands 1829:20 1862:4 1902:5
1905:23 1913:16,23,25 1834:4 fact 1750:8 fantastic 1806:2
1919:19 expect 1805:4,6 experts 1856:24 1764:8 far 1768:5
examine 1832:6 1805:17 explain 1751:5 1770:10,11 1807:12
1868:4 1821:5,7,10 1755:5 1787:20 1808:25
examined 1823:20,21 1757:18 1893:1 1908:2 1809:6 1810:5
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1865:4 film 1782:22,24 first 1749:5 1884:21,22 followed
1890:10 1784:18 1753:12 flight 1904:17 1843:16
1901:13 1787:10 1764:1 flipped 1859:5 following
fast 1896:10 1792:25 1768:11 float 1794:7,10 1740:22
1917:14 1793:1 1771:23 1795:4 1804:10
faster 1845:9 1805:23 1772:24 1799:17,18 1868:17
1862:20 filmed 1773:17 1778:22 floats 1792:14 1901:10
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1911:21 1798:16 1899:20 1833:17,18 1870:4,6,7,8
lots 1772:17 1890:17 1904:15 materials 1870:10,18,24
1808:2 1897:19 manufacturers 1831:3 1872:10
1884:14 malfunctioned 1761:4 1775:7 mathematical 1887:1
low 1746:23 1915:19 1908:10 1801:19 1915:18
1752:4 malfunctioning manufacturing 1802:13 meet 1911:15
1794:17 1915:15 1780:13 matrix 1878:15 Megalodon
1840:25 man's 1832:18 March 1775:1 1878:16 1766:15
1873:7 manage 1758:5 1778:7 1779:1 matter 1744:16 1767:7,17,21
1917:21,24 manipulate 1779:15 1747:12 1768:18,20,22
lower 1839:9,18 1754:19 margin 1821:2 1794:24 1768:25
1868:18 1760:12 Marine 1740:10 matters 1743:22 1769:5
1909:15 manipulating 1911:23 1744:1 1770:11
lunch 1744:11 1894:11 mark 1740:10 maximizing 1771:10
1745:1 manner 1764:24 1813:18 1863:6 1775:20,25
lungs 1913:16 1779:5 1814:16,18 MB 1740:2 1910:18,20
1913:25 1904:13 1815:1,5,6 MCCR 1746:13 1912:4,9
lying 1849:18 manual 1746:13 1856:11 1755:18 member
1746:16,18 1890:1,16 MCCRs 1760:8 1748:16
M 1755:7,19,23 1898:12 MCRR 1752:23 members 1868:4
machines 1759:20,23 marked 1742:12 1755:7 1902:5
1856:9 1763:15 1889:25 mean 1751:6 1912:13
main 1795:21 1775:17 1890:17,24 1753:7 membrane
maintain 1776:10 1893:24 1754:21 1830:13
1751:13 1873:16,17,22 1898:22 1759:10 1831:2,7
1753:6,9 1873:23 market 1749:6 1817:19 1833:17,18
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1860:10,13,19 1900:20 1763:24 means 1759:8 1922:1,4
maintained 1904:3,6,6,8 1764:1 1759:10 membranes
1789:17 1910:15,16 1910:10 1863:14 1860:2
1860:8,15 manually marketable 1912:20 memorial
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1774:1 1757:3 mishap 1788:25 1786:24 1820:2 1859:8

memorials military 1755:25 1793:3 1796:7 1840:1 1869:15
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memory 1874:3 1756:23 1802:3,6,20 1902:3 1893:14
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mentions Miller 1810:17 1919:13,15 1786:4 1847:3 1867:10
1808:21 1812:8 1920:10,12 monitor 1746:22 movies 1787:9
merchandise milliliters missed 1901:14 1760:12 moving 1795:10
1756:8 1886:11,12,13 mistakenly monitoring 1821:11
met 1810:12 millimeters 1857:20 1755:21 1847:3
1911:17 1868:9 mitigated 1900:2,8 1875:23
metabolic 1879:15,16,19 1902:23 month 1791:24 1886:2,4
1747:14 1879:19,20 mix 1753:12 1863:17,20 1890:19
metabolism million 1869:25 1873:19 1889:22 moxied 1769:9
1746:20,20 1910:1 mixed 1817:4 1890:1
1822:21,22 millivolt 1827:10 months 1778:5 N
1825:4,5,9,12 1858:18,22 1890:5 1841:22 N 1742:1
1850:7 millivolts MKVI 1801:17 1880:24,25 name 1789:23
metabolize 1858:14,14 MLV1234 1908:5 1842:2,8,13,25
1823:13 mind 1824:6 1787:8 mouth 1792:22 1843:2,3
metabolizes 1846:10,17,19 mode 1761:21 1794:14 1847:21
1822:3 minimal 1785:1 1849:14 1848:7,19
metal 1892:17 1797:12 1912:18,19 1851:1,20,22 1849:2 1855:2
metals 1856:6 1916:11 1913:9,11 1852:6 1914:2 1855:2
meters 1753:16 minister 1774:1 model 1755:19 mouthpiece named 1774:2
1754:4 minute 1747:5 1766:19,23,25 1792:22 names 1773:19
1756:16,16,17 1747:10,20 1767:3,5 1793:20 1773:20
1756:18,25 1752:21 1832:15,22,24 1794:5,9,14 1810:18,21
1757:3,4,6,8 1825:14,15,19 1832:24 1795:4,8,14 1920:14
1772:15 minutes 1758:9 1834:17,22 1799:14,17 narcotic
methodically 1810:1 1911:25 1849:13 1915:22
1795:18 1812:19 modeling 1782:6 1850:19,20,24 national
methodology 1816:8 1801:19 1851:9,16,18 1828:25
1744:6,12 1825:23 1802:14 1851:22,23 natural 1856:5
1779:12 1826:1,9 1849:21,23,24 1892:16 Naval 1835:5
metrics 1866:12 1840:5,6 moderate 1913:15,18,21 Navy 1773:15
Miami 1741:24 1847:10 1809:17 mouthpieces 1774:2
microphone 1852:21 modifications 1794:7 1795:5 1786:16
1797:10 1858:15 1901:22 MOV1217 1842:4,4,5,5
middle 1868:19 1888:1 1896:2 modify 1786:14 1782:9 1842:20
1912:15 1896:4 1902:12 MOV1234 1844:8,8
miles 1757:24 1907:16 moisture 1792:2 1848:11
militaries misconduct 1843:21 move 1771:1 1856:11,16
1756:16,17 1923:10 moment 1809:10 1857:3,8,11
(888)811-3408
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1864:25 1833:5,6,11 1875:3 1880:8 1871:21 1830:21

1885:13,16,17 1836:5,6 1880:9 numbers 1882:3 1883:7
1907:5,10,15 1899:23 1887:10 1817:16 objecting
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Nearer 1913:11 1751:16 1893:25 1821:9,10 1748:20,23
necessarily 1759:12 normoxic 1835:7 1839:6 1818:8,18
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1917:17 1784:21 notes 1872:5 1881:5 1917:9 1884:1
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1778:12,14 news 1838:8 1884:20 O 1915:9 1918:7
1785:25 1923:4 noticed 1792:14 O 1828:20,21,24 1919:2,23
1787:25 nice 1760:25 1887:3 1829:1,2,5 1920:6,21
1793:17 Nicolai 1816:20 November O2 1856:11 objections
1794:17 Nineteen 1880:18 O2CCR 1904:7 1883:25
1798:23 1880:24,25 1882:21 O2ptima objective
1802:15 nitrogen 1908:12,13 1754:14 1769:19
1813:10,11,13 1860:17 number 1768:25 1770:13 1815:11
1820:21 1915:23 1769:23 1777:7,12,17 1854:3
1833:20 noise 1875:23 1774:13 1777:20,21,22 obligation
1836:22,24 nonumbilical 1808:22 1777:23 1796:23
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1851:21 normal 1785:11 1821:7,21 1780:9 1781:2 oblige 1750:14
1884:19 1791:22 1835:8 1811:19,23 observe 1905:3
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1899:24 1848:17 1864:3,12 1820:14 obstacles
1915:12 1860:1,22 1865:13 1821:14 1797:22
1916:13,15 1890:3 1866:20 1848:17 obvious 1755:10
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needing 1749:6 normally 1753:8 1872:12,13,23 1875:15 obviously
needs 1760:11 1764:9 1873:4 1878:5 1880:7 1886:8 1832:5,13
1794:23 1769:19 1879:3 1897:9 1898:1 1894:17
1841:10 1782:25 1880:16 1898:2 1917:9,11
nefarious 1785:13,20 1881:2 1901:12 OC 1746:8
1815:7 1786:18 1882:23 1911:23 occasions
negative 1823:4 1792:16 1887:13 1912:5 1744:2
never 1760:3 1793:18 1900:6,13,16 1919:21 occur 1777:11
1779:14 1795:1 1798:4 1900:16 1920:3,18 1777:12
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1831:16,20,22 1820:6,23 1917:20,24 object 1778:10 1889:10
1832:10 1823:18 numbered 1809:8 occurred 1779:1
(888)811-3408
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1810:5 1786:7 1899:7 1887:8 1920:3 1866:13

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offended 1872:11 1809:2,2 1826:21 1757:21
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offer 1755:23 1885:22 1913:21 1918:16 1902:20
offered 1787:19 1891:19 1918:16 ordered 1908:21 1914:6
office 1783:25 1893:9 open-circuit orders 1909:18 overnight
1870:24 1898:21 1770:17,17 1909:22 1827:4
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officer 1774:6 old 1831:24 1788:10 organizations 1748:22
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OFFICES 1880:13 1851:16 1774:5 1882:4
1741:19 1887:20 opened 1767:2 orient 1862:13 1889:16
offshore 1810:5 onboard 1788:2 1852:5 orientation 1895:20,21
1810:7 1788:5,8,16 1886:22 1858:3 1908:18
oh 1741:10 once 1754:4 1915:21 1861:24 1915:10
1793:3 1794:18 operates oriented 1862:1 1918:13
1889:13 1799:16 1762:17 1862:22 1920:7
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1749:14 1901:5 1899:23 OSEL-approv... owned 1789:4
1752:12 1910:19 1904:23 1902:14 oxygen 1746:19
1766:13 ones 1764:1,3 operation outer 1868:17 1746:23,23,24
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1772:6,25 1766:10 operator 1763:4 output 1843:12 1753:7,8,17,17
1775:7 1777:1 1774:10 opinion 1743:13 1857:19,23 1753:20,22
1778:17,20 1775:20 1743:14 1858:13,24 1756:3,9,11
1779:11 1833:5 1749:11,24 1861:15 1757:13
1780:16 1860:22 1750:6 1908:1 1763:8
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1782:18 online 1751:16 1793:6 1798:10 1781:14
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(888)811-3408
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1814:13 1901:16 1861:14 1782:21 1796:21

1820:9 1821:4 1903:20,22,25 1871:14 1796:17 1798:13
1821:4,18,18 pages 1740:16 particular 1798:16,20,21 1801:5
1822:18 1742:5 1753:6,25 1798:24 1803:14
1823:6,11,15 1790:18 1766:17,19,23 1806:23 1814:24,25
1823:16 1803:6 1777:11 1807:7,11 1816:24
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1825:17,22,24 paid 1785:8,16 1828:18 1831:4 1902:9 personal 1740:4
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1843:13,20 1918:17 1884:13 1754:2 1821:1 1902:2
1849:17,19,22 Palm 1740:1,19 particularly 1821:2,3 personally
1850:1,13 1740:20 1770:16 1841:17 1905:10
1854:10,19 1810:16 1811:15 1858:14 pertain 1803:9,9
1856:3 1811:6 1837:6 1906:20 1859:11 1803:14,20
1857:20 1922:18 partner 1902:5 1889:19 pertains 1803:8
1863:3 1925:5 parts 1869:25 1890:3 pertinent 1920:9
1865:11 Panama 1865:2 party 1750:15 1901:10 petrochemical
1867:15 paper 1854:3 pass 1803:10 percentage 1856:5
1871:14 paragraph 1831:11 1752:10 PGFE 1922:6
1888:19 1899:11 1899:20 1753:17 PH.D 1742:7
1889:3,6,19 parameters 1915:16 perfect 1838:1 phase 1852:13
1890:3,3,5 1764:24 passage 1835:21 1846:25 phone 1782:16
1891:12 paraphrasing passengers 1922:25 1783:7 1784:2
1894:22 1876:7 1797:19 perfectly 1802:15
1900:3,4,9 Pardon 1778:1 passing 1904:15 1907:21 1891:25
1906:9,12,13 1800:10 patch 1804:17 period 1769:10 1896:16
1912:21,21 1869:13 1804:21 1805:19 phones 1784:6
1913:6,7,10,11 parents 1902:5 patient 1883:23 1813:1 1784:10
1913:12 Parker 1775:6 pay 1910:25 1817:12 photo 1799:18
1921:17 1917:6 paying 1786:14 1859:24 1895:19
1922:1 part 1788:18 1800:3 1863:7 photograph
1829:19,21 1805:14 periodically 1814:4 1817:8
P 1836:18 1806:6,9 1781:19 1836:7,9,11,14
P-600 1741:23 1845:20,21 pays 1763:18 periods 1910:19 1871:1 1872:9
P.A 1741:13,23 1888:8 1911:2 pen 1758:13,14 permanent 1872:24
p.m 1740:18,18 1918:15,18 pending 1848:3 1904:20 1874:19
1743:1 1810:4 partial 1747:1 1849:5 permissible 1876:12
1838:20,20 1821:17 people 1749:22 1744:18 1877:5
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PA 1741:20 1823:13,15 1751:16 1846:11 1884:11
page 1742:3,13 1824:9,19 1752:10 person 1747:6 1886:7
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(888)811-3408
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1782:23 1892:17 1809:24 1781:4,6,9,11 1838:19

photographs 1900:24 1814:3 1816:7 1781:12,17 1865:11
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1813:19,25 pioneer 1768:15 1828:21 1783:21,22,23 1828:14
1815:9,18,25 pioneers 1834:14,15,23 1784:1 potential
1816:1,3 1768:16 1838:5 1845:2 1802:14 1751:23
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1835:22 1740:22 1849:7 1853:1 1893:5 potentially
1836:8 1762:24 1862:3,19 pop 1851:22 1804:23
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1861:8 1779:25 1870:22 portion 1796:4 pounds 1785:18
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1881:6 1796:8 1800:4 1876:18 1903:25 1786:18
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photos 1813:6 1874:17,23 1884:2 1886:4 1783:22 poured 1829:15
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physical 1833:5 1891:8 1900:17 1895:4 1859:4
physics 1904:5 1900:25 1902:9 posed 1770:24 pouring 1878:4
physiology Plaintiff 1740:6 1912:12 Poseidon 1878:19
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pick 1782:20 Plaintiff's PO2 1900:11 1801:15,17 1887:5
1784:11 1885:24 pocket 1861:5 1808:18 powerful
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picture 1862:2,3 1878:14,16 1769:7 1799:2 1794:5 1795:7 1747:3,19,21
1862:4 plastics 1860:2 1824:7 1795:13,15,21 1753:6 1754:1
1871:21,24 plate 1826:12 1825:25 1813:15,16 1754:2,3
1881:13 1830:14,16 1826:1,10,10 1826:17,18 1755:8,10,11
1887:4 1888:4 1866:25 1836:16 1828:1,5,5 1755:14,16,21
1891:21 1867:17,25 1840:7 1850:2 1832:7 1858:2 1756:20,25
1919:9 1868:8 1917:8 1858:3 1757:2
pictures 1812:24 1876:25 pointing 1885:23 1760:19
1813:10 1877:8,12,21 1874:15 1892:11 1761:2
1818:9 1839:6 1877:22 1892:13 1897:23 1781:18
1839:11,15 1878:10,11,15 points 1837:15 positioning 1817:15
1862:6,8 1879:12 police 1803:13 1819:16 1819:25
1871:22 play 1759:7,11 1810:12,14,20 positions 1820:25
1879:3,25 1759:14 1810:22 1819:10 1821:3,9
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1894:16,18 played 1783:2 1816:10,11,12 possession 1840:22,25
piece 1763:11 1792:3 1816:16,25 1885:23 1843:14
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precautions 1824:9,19 1892:1 1908:5 1786:13 1834:8

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1901:10 pressures 1906:23 Professor provisions
prefer 1818:17 1825:1 1912:16 1816:19 1776:14,14
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preordered prevent 1867:5 1904:24 1836:10 1780:2,7,14,16
1766:7 preventative 1922:15 1867:16 PTX 1918:15
preparation 1863:24 procedures 1868:16,17 public 1842:2
1792:17 previous 1864:6 profit 1786:9 publish 1899:7
prepared 1766:24 1901:11 program published
1787:23 previously 1902:15 1836:12 1832:25
1813:21 1743:23 1904:24 1888:8 1906:11
preparing 1768:6 1905:2 project 1791:9 pull 1764:11
1790:4 1789:12,13,14 proceed 1839:2 1808:16 1777:15
presence 1789:16 proceedings 1809:5 1790:20
1814:18,20 price 1752:6,8 1740:15,23 projects 1786:16 1908:24
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1816:12,17 primary 1924:3 prone 1795:13 punch 1888:20
1923:23 1755:17 1925:10 1795:15,21 1888:22
presentation 1816:6 processes 1828:4 punched 1888:9
1842:21 1817:17,18 1901:11 proper 1744:8 1888:11
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press 1755:9 1854:11,12 1921:18 1759:13 1834:17
1760:19,20 principle 1922:2 1777:16 purchased
1912:21 1755:22 produces 1862:22 1765:7 1766:4
1913:4 principles 1858:23 1889:8 purchaser
pressed 1845:16 1904:5 producing prospective 1751:24
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1851:10 1895:13 product 1749:15 protocol 1910:4 1752:13
pressure 1747:1 prior 1762:8 1749:23 prototype pure 1756:3
1753:17,20,22 1789:20 1750:2,16,18 1759:1 1757:13
1753:24 1808:15 1750:20 prove 1773:24 1762:1 1827:2
1754:3 1904:21 1786:2,13,14 1773:25 1828:12
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1860:24 1845:11,14 1908:4,6 1863:11 1813:11
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qualifications 1919:18 1901:20 1917:4
1806:17 1921:3,10,13 R 1918:14,15,18 Realtime
qualified 1921:24 R&D 1854:3 1921:7 1923:4 1740:24
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Reasonably 1789:5,6,9,17 1900:18 1910:6,7,8,10 1783:8

1809:15 1790:9 1792:6 1901:4,6,7,8,9 1910:14,15 records 1760:8
1850:21,22 1792:12,18,21 1901:13,23,25 1911:8 1912:3 recover 1806:24
reasons 1850:6 1794:2,25 1903:4,12,13 recall 1809:3 1807:9
REBECCA 1795:24 1904:11,14,19 1811:6,11 recovered
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rebreather 1801:17 1905:1 1906:2 1842:19,19 1806:21
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1766:5,14,17 1844:25 1776:6,23,25 1761:13 1826:2
1767:25 1851:18 1776:25 recommended redundant
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1780:9 1781:2 1887:10 1899:4 recorded referring
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refrain 1883:13 remember replaced 1769:12 revision 1764:2

regarded 1772:16 1900:19,22 requires rig 1865:9,14
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Registered 1810:19,21,24 1810:24 1808:7,10,12 1747:10
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regulation 1819:20 1813:18,18,22 1923:3,9 1754:24
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regulator 1827:19 1815:10,15 residual 1757:1 1756:18
1758:19,21 1828:12 1816:4,10,11 residue 1874:25 1763:14
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1788:9,10 1839:6,8,10,15 1816:25 1877:11,13,16 1766:1,15,16
relate 1782:4,5 1853:25 1817:7 1877:19,21,22 1767:9,14
1795:23 1861:21 1818:25 1877:23 1768:22
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relates 1843:6 1919:5,11,16 1881:4,17 1861:17 1775:4
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relatives remembered 1740:23 1797:19 1788:1
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1907:17 1787:19 reprimanding 1911:18 1811:14
relevant repeated 1884:4 retrained 1812:9 1813:8
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1837:11,19 risk 1776:5,12 1874:16,22 1909:13 1908:17

1839:14 1776:19,21 1878:12 sales 1908:21 scored 1888:24
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1862:11 1788:7 1923:23,24 saw 1790:24 screen 1820:22
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1864:25 Road 1741:19 1807:18 1869:10
1865:22 ROBERT S 1815:14,15,16 scrubber
1866:25 1741:15 Saap 1790:25 1817:14 1827:11,17,18
1867:5 1868:1 Rodon 1812:12 safe 1756:12,14 1820:2 1827:21,23
1868:13,15,25 1814:4 1779:23 1835:10,17 1829:25
1869:17 1839:16 1781:13 1843:11 1840:13,15
1870:2 Rodon's 1796:24 1844:24 1841:8,10
1871:10 1812:18 1798:19 1848:5,9,16 1865:8,15,17
1873:13 1813:6 1826:10 1859:3 1861:7 1866:13,20,24
1875:9,18 1815:25 1905:1 1861:9 1867:1,2,14,14
1876:7 role 1915:5,14 safely 1774:11 1908:14 1868:7,11,16
1877:17 rolling 1896:10 1776:15 Sawatzky 1868:18,23
1878:7 1896:23 1777:13 1915:24 1869:6,9,22
1879:17 ROMANO 1787:25 1916:5 1873:21
1880:14,16,22 1741:4,6 1798:15 saying 1760:25 1874:1,7,13,14
1881:23 rookie 1857:4 safer 1760:9 1800:8 1874:16
1882:21 rookies 1857:3 safety 1760:7,8 1818:25 1875:2,8,9,19
1884:19 room 1806:3 1761:6 1819:1,16 1876:15
1885:24 1870:1 1773:10,11 1827:12 1878:4,15,22
1887:20 1917:22 1774:6,11 1841:25 1879:4,7,9
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scuba 1761:21 1792:11,22 1829:12 1868:8 1871:15

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1792:11 1877:11,16,16 send 1846:14 1832:12,16,17 1805:25
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1854:16 1887:5,10 1822:9,11 1834:5,7,10,13 1913:9
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07 1863:20 10th 1889:24 155 1877:6 1842:1 2012 1740:2
07/10 1889:22 1890:2 1550 1810:6,8,9 1858:14 1763:24
08/12 1881:3 11 1765:17,21 156 1878:1 1913:18 1766:18,24
09 1887:14 1852:20 159 1824:15 200 1741:19 1767:3 1881:8
1890:11 15TH 1740:1 2000 1768:7,7 2013 1836:3
1 1901:3 16 1775:9 1775:1,1,4,9 1837:1,5,8
1 1826:11 11/08 1880:17 1776:23 2003 1854:12 1848:18,24
1899:9 110 1873:25 1780:11 2006 1854:11,13 2015 1765:23
1,850 1785:13 116 1741:20 1829:4 2007 1764:1 2016 1740:18
1785:16,19 1188 1892:23 1856:11 1888:7,7,11,22 1762:5 1766:1
1.06 1822:11 1195 1894:5 160 1878:17 1889:2 1779:15
1.1 1823:5 1197 1894:14 161 1879:16 2008 1764:3 1844:3
1825:14,15 12 1756:17 163 1882:19 1766:24 1925:14
1.2 1754:6 1757:3,4,6,8 164 1882:23 1767:24 202 1887:19
1823:5 1758:10,12 165 1741:23 1788:7,19 205 1740:19
1825:14,15 1858:14,18,22 167 1884:10 1820:16 21 1912:14
1.34 1786:25 1901:8 169 1886:4 1880:18 216)-696-3232
1.35 1824:18 1903:22 17 1858:14 1881:9 1741:10
1.4 1754:6 12-2008 1882:25 1700 1741:9 1882:21 217 1888:17
1817:21,23 120 1754:4 172 1887:12 2009 1755:19 220 1774:15
1820:8,19 1201 1895:15 1740 1740:16 1759:1,3 1889:18
1823:19,23 1202 1895:17 1742:5 1767:25 23 1866:1,5,9
1826:10 1896:14 1745 1742:8 1768:2 24 1879:16,19
1871:9 1203 1891:17 1850 1786:15 1842:21 24-hour 1769:10
1873:13 1217 1783:1 1898 1742:15 1843:11 27 1872:23,23
1.40 1786:24 126 1824:13 19 1871:1 1844:3 290 1741:23
1.50 1786:23 13 1740:18 1872:12,13 1848:25
1.6 1756:20,25 130 1915:23 1905 1742:8 1854:13,14,18 3
1.90 1786:25 1330 1809:25 19087 1741:20 1862:22 3 1742:15
1:00 1740:18 138-page 1921 1742:9 1863:15 1824:12,13,15
1743:1 1844:19 1924 1740:16 1887:16 1824:17,18
10 1752:3 13th 1925:14 1925 1742:5 1903:9 1898:13,14,23
1753:16 14 1740:16 1979 1772:11 1908:11,13 1900:6
1821:1 1742:5 1994 1854:1,5 1909:12 3-feet 1809:17
1858:14 1400 1809:25 1996 1772:15 2010 1762:11 3:00 1809:20
10-millimeter 146 1874:4 1998 1856:12 1764:4,14 1810:4 1838:1
1868:24 149 1874:19 1857:9 1765:10 3:01 1838:20
10:00 1922:17 15 1794:18 1999 1772:15,24 1766:3 1835:6 3:15 1838:3,10
1923:19 1924:4 1880:21 3:18 1838:20
100 1772:15 15-minute 2 1912:14 3:30 1847:14
1886:11,12,13 1923:22 2 1741:14 2011 1762:8,9 3:31 1817:18,20
1901:10 1924:1 1824:12 1763:24 30 1753:16
100-meter 150 1764:12 1901:16 1765:10,12,23 1799:6,7
1772:23 1500 1809:21 1910:1 1766:24 1805:22,24
(888)811-3408
Page 1968
1913:7,9 1769:1,1 7/10th 1889:24

1914:7 1922:7 1809:1,1 70 1754:2
300 1765:24 1813:25 1866:9
305)956-9040 1865:18 700 1807:13,18
1741:24 500 1798:14 1807:21
32204 1741:14 500-milliliter 1808:4
33 1753:21 1886:13 701 1741:13
1821:25 53 1822:13 72 1825:25
1822:1,8 1824:15 75 1859:11
1824:3 1873:4 1873:8 750 1787:6
33169 1741:24 54 1820:25 76.1 1853:1
33460 1741:5 550 1773:6,9 78 1873:14
38 1757:11,13 1785:14,23 7th 1848:24
39 1903:20 1787:5,6 1889:24
3GS 1896:18 561)533-6700
1741:5 8
4 8 1756:16,25
4 1817:14 6 1768:3,4
1868:9 6 1756:16,18 80 1866:10,14
1879:15,19,20 1794:24 800 1787:6
1900:13 1817:15 82 1810:1
1904:7 1895:11 1822:9
40 1757:9 1900:16 82-minute
400 1869:25 60 1753:16 1787:15,15
400-some 1773:4 1784:6 83-liter 1897:19
1871:22 1823:25
40PPM 1901:1 1824:4 1888:1 9
42 1824:8,11,12 1907:16 9 1863:14
1824:13 60-meter 90 1752:12
44114 1741:10 1772:24 1865:10,15,21
45 1820:25 62 1873:8 1866:16
1824:17,18 63 1764:20,24 90-degree
460 1813:20 1774:15 1892:12
1799:2 900 1808:3
5 1824:21 904)309-6500
5 1817:15 66 1824:7,9,20 1741:15
1820:6,6,13,25 1825:13 90s 1772:18
1821:1,2,3,12 95 1866:3
1823:19 7 98 1889:19
1841:17 7 1747:4,6,10 1890:3
1900:16 1754:2
5:00 1838:17 1794:24
1922:12 1795:1 1818:7
5:10 1740:18 1821:10
1924:3 1823:19
50 1740:2 1848:18
1764:12 7-liter 1897:17
(888)811-3408

Cross-Examination of Alex Deas at Skiles v. Lamartek Trial in 2016

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Filing # 44141980 E-Filed 07/19/2016 04:27:54 PM

CASE NO.: 50 2012 CA 013132 MB AN

TERRI SKILES, as Personal

TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL PROCEEDINGS

DATE TAKEN: May 13, 2016

This cause came on to be heard at the time and

I, KIMBERLY FONTALVO, Registered

Dated this 13th day of May, 2016.

A 1909:1 1917:8 adjust 1832:7 ahead 1749:2 1884:12

1790:21 1898:8 1899:3 1776:18 1845:8,11,25 1771:15

1836:9,12 1823:22 ball 1868:23 benefit 1863:6 1842:6,17

1914:20 1760:24 buoyancy 1801:16 carry 1767:9,11

cave 1757:24 1869:21 1835:3 1750:23 1796:8,12

clearing 1840:11 collecting 1761:24 1858:13,15 1834:1

1910:5 conducted 1747:7 convention 1779:16

1877:1,4,9,10 County 1740:1 1882:4 1883:4 1768:13 1784:14,14

1925:14 1902:2,4 1742:15 depth 1754:1 1851:18

1906:1 1767:22 displayed 1811:12 1764:23

1842:7 1852:3 1784:16 1903:13 1881:15 1858:11

1807:12,17 due 1756:19 1915:22 1831:21 1875:23

1832:14 1890:11,13,14 1826:2 1899:24 1919:12

1853:16 FILL 1740:9 fires 1850:10 flat 1867:15 1905:2,10,11

1787:9 fused 1803:23 gauges 1813:16 1779:2 1907:9 1914:3

1922:23 1867:3,5,6,9 handling 1840:9 happens 1758:7 hearsay 1842:22

1826:13 1849:4 1896:3 1915:24 I 1803:1

indicated 1917:7 Inspiration 1847:20 1814:23

1741:6 1846:13 know 1747:19 1871:25 laboratories

1892:8,18,20 1864:17 1825:15 1785:2 1813:1 1790:1

1767:9 1888:14 1746:23 1912:7 measure 1887:4

1774:1 1757:3 mishap 1788:25 1786:24 1820:2 1859:8

1864:25 1833:5,6,11 1875:3 1880:8 1871:21 1830:21

1810:5 1786:7 1899:7 1887:8 1920:3 1866:13

1814:13 1901:16 1861:14 1782:21 1796:21

1782:23 1892:17 1809:24 1781:4,6,9,11 1838:19

precautions 1824:9,19 1892:1 1908:5 1786:13 1834:8

1876:24 1825:7 1834:2 1768:19,22 1786:25 1921:4

Reasonably 1789:5,6,9,17 1900:18 1910:6,7,8,10 1783:8

refrain 1883:13 remember replaced 1769:12 revision 1764:2

1837:11,19 risk 1776:5,12 1874:16,22 1909:13 1908:17

scuba 1761:21 1792:11,22 1829:12 1868:8 1871:15

1838:21 sheet 1854:2 shown 1766:14 similar 1774:9 1762:11,15

1813:5 1830:8 sole 1904:6 1741:8 spread 1874:12 stated 1771:17

1857:25 1913:11 1786:10 1904:12 1762:24

swale 1809:17 1905:12 1814:12,14 1846:11,17,18 1843:18

1799:13 1882:19 1873:20 1818:21 1808:23

1873:16 1870:5 1880:9 1803:7 1893:24 1873:9

1850:8 1836:19 1829:2,5 1904:21 1873:19

1847:22 1782:7,17 watched 1852:14,17,19 1779:11

1923:14,18 wife 1749:25 1784:6 wrestling 1789:14,16

0020 1872:14 1773:2,3 1810:2 2,200 1787:3 1767:3 1881:9

1913:7,9 1769:1,1 7/10th 1889:24

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