www.eightmartinis.

com ISSN 2045-2462 (Print) ISSN 2045-2470 (Online)

*
“What is an ‘eight-martini’ result?

*eight martinis
Well, this is an intelligence community
in-house term for remote viewing data
so good that it cracks everyone’s realities.
The State of the Art of Remote Viewing So they have to go out and drink eight
martinis to recover.”
- Ingo Swann

ISSUE: 17 OCTOBER 2019

The Other Half of Hella’s Brain - An Intimate Conversation with Russell Targ |
Remote Viewing The FIFA 2018 World Cup - An experiment in using Associative
Remote Viewing (ARV) to successfully predict a global event 2 months into the
future | In the Archives of a Many-sided Man - Ingo Swann, the ‘Father of Remote
Viewing’ | Mind To Mind - What part does Telepathy play within Remote Viewing?
 *eight martinis The State of the Art of Remote Viewing

“
*eight martinis Issue: 17
OCTOBER 2019
There is an old saying that
*eight martinis is a biannual magazine.
Print copies are available from: something can occasionally be
http://www.magcloud.com/browse/
Magazine/25471 recognized by its voluminous or
For further information Email:
[email protected]
thunderous absence. The topic
Publisher: Daz Smith
of awareness clearly falls into the
Editing & advice: Coleen Marenich
category of subtle absenteeism.

”
Contributors:
Daz Smith, Debra Lynne Katz, Jon
Knowles, Michelle Freed-Bulgatz, Tunde - Ingo Swann - Awareness and the super powers
Atunrase.

Artwork & Design: Daz Smith

ISSN 2045-2462 (Print)

ISSN 2045-2470 (Online)
Welcome to Issue 17 of eight martinis. This issue covers some of the latest topics
© Copyright: Daz Smith, 2019. including: an interview with Russell Targ;
Well, the field of Remote Viewing seems groundbreaking ARVresults; a quick peek
to be going through some very healthy into the Ingo Swann archives; and a look
changes and growth this last couple of at the possible role of telepathy in RV.
years. The number of example remote
viewing sessions, videos and discussion Thanks for downloading or purchasing a
forums indicate a very healthy and lively printed copy of eight martinis magazine.
community. Keep up the good work
and practice!

Daz Smith
[email protected]

Daz Smith
*Please be aware that the views and comments from the contributors to eight martinis are their own and not
the views held by this magazine/owner or editors.

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:2

CONTENTS
ISSUE 17 - OCTOBER 2019

Introduction.
Page 2

Contents.
Page 3

The Other Half of Hella’s Brain - An

Intimate Conversation with Russell
Targ.

Debra Lynne Katz, Michelle Freed-

Bulgatz
Page 4

Remote Viewing The FIFA 2018 World

Cup - An experiment in using
Associative Remote Viewing (ARV) to
successfully predict a global event 2
months into the future.

Tunde Atunrase
Page 22

In the Archives of a Many-sided

Man - Ingo Swann, the ‘Father of
Remote Viewing’.

Jon Knowles
Page 29

Mind To Mind - What part does

Telepathy play within Remote Viewing?

Daz Smith
Page 33

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:3

AN INTIMATE CONVERSATION WITH RUSSELL TARG:

THE OTHER HALF OF

HELLA’S BRAIN
By Debra Lynne Katz &
Michelle Freed-Bulgatz

In early June, 2018, Debra Lynne Katz and Michelle Freed-Bulgatz, (aka the“psi chicks”)
conducted a phone interview with Russell Targ. They were already familiar with the work he
did at SRI, the research arm of the clandestine military programs that operated from 1973
through the mid 1990’s. But whereas so many interviewers merely skimmed the surface, they
wanted to go deeper and further into Targ’s psyche than any had gone before. Their mission: to
discover the secret to the program’s success in terms of what it was that Russell did with those
“non-psychics”, “civilians, senators, generals” who came to SRI as skeptics and left not only
as believers, but with pledges to continue financial support of the psycho-energetics program
which brought in well over a million dollars each year. By the time the interview ended, they
had remote viewed Targ’s most prized possession and not only revealed the secret to Targ’s suc-
cessful out bounder experiments, but learned more about Scientology’s possible hold on one of
the program’s remote viewers, Targ’s connection to Bobby Fischer and how his secret mission
to corral a publisher at his church led to meeting his true love.

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Debra: One of the things that we would like to ask you about cause I have the original film which appears in my movie, I
is your ideas about how people develop with their abilities. have the original audio. You’ve probably seen my film, right?

Russell: Okay, there’s all these questions about ESP nobody Debra/Michelle: Yeah!
really knows the answer to, but I’m happy to try. You see, since
we don’t know how psychic abilities work, we don’t really Russell: So, in that you have me walking her through this. I say
know what makes them work well, or what makes them not “Hal is now in his hiding place, can you take a couple of deep
work well. But, I’ll share with you my experience in trying to breaths, quiet your mind and tell me about the surprising
do this. images that come into your awareness?” I would never say,
“Where is Hal hiding” because that’s an analytical question
Debra: One of the things I’ve found that you don’t find in and psychic abilities are a non-analytical function. So the only
the write-ups of different parapsychology studies, you read kind of questions I will ever ask a person is “What are you
obviously the results, the quantitative results, the statistics, experiencing? I understand what you’ve just said; what are
and the methods - What you don’t read about is what was you experiencing that makes you say that?” Those are the only
going on in the person’s head? What were the processes? things that I would ever say. I could say that in different ways,
For example: when you, I know you sometimes will even do a but I would start her out by saying “Hal’s at his location, I have
remote viewing session yourself - we could ask you if someone no idea where he is, of course, can you tell me what you see
gives you a target, what processes are going through in your that is interesting? What kind of surprising images show up
mind to get a result? Or let’s say Hella Hammid, you know, in your awareness?” And those are basically the magic words
when she first came in to SRI, she didn’t have any experience that I’ve used throughout the program to get people started.
and one thing I’ve always wondered, it’s not like she walked The goal is to have them look internally for a surprising image
in and you stuck her in a room by herself and didn’t give her rather than trying to guess where they’re at.
any instructions at all, right? So what did you do to walk her
through the process? If you could talk about that a little bit. Debra: What you’re saying there, I think is extremely
important. That word “surprising” why do you use that word
Russell: Hella was an experienced meditator. She had as opposed to other words?
never done any psychic stuff before. She was a professional
photographer, very well thought of, born in Germany, lived Russell: Because we’re trying to get away from what Ingo
in France, came to America, so she was fluent in several calls “Analytical Overlay”; which has been understood for
languages. Did you know Hella? 800 years – Padmasambhava, the great Buddhist master who
brought Buddhism from India to Tibet wrote a book called,
Debra: I didn’t know her personally but I’ve watched videos of Self Liberation Through Seeing with Naked Awareness. Self-
you and her together in a session. liberation is seeing with naked awareness. Who we are is the
being with naked awareness, it’s our nature. And in order
Russell: She was very charming; an intelligent woman. You to experience that, you have to get away from naming and
could take her anywhere, she’d never embarrass you; nothing grasping. So the idea of naming and grasping as a source of
weird about her. She comes across as a charming sort of noise is not a new discovery. This is what he knew in the year
European edge professional woman; like a movie star. She was 800. Warcollier knew about this in the 1940’s. Ingo wrote
very easy to work with. What happened was we worked with about it specifically and called it “Analytical Overlay”. Anything
Pat Price and Ingo Swan and they, of course did excellently in that’s analytical brings noise into the system so the process
the tests that we did and then the CIA said, “Can’t you bring us that makes ESP work - we don’t know how to increase the
an ordinary person into the control who had never done this signal, nobody knows that - but we’ve gotten very skilful at
before?” And Hella was a friend of the family, a friend of mine, diminishing the noise. For example, when you do the remote
and she had just come to California and I thought it would be viewing at a quiet place, you do it in a place where the lights
fun! It would be amusing to work with her doing this since are dim and there are no weird paintings on the wall. So, you
I’d already done work with numerous people who had never want to get rid of audio noise and visual noise.
done it before. And Hella thought it would be fun to work with
me ‘cause we got along very well. So her introduction to the Debra: Now you’re saying you don’t know much about what
program was actually nothing. She had never done remote increases it, but again, getting back to the word “surprising”
viewing, but she was an enthusiastic meditator. and you’ve used that word a couple of times, you weren’t
saying “interesting” or telling us what to see….
Debra: Can you walk us through the very first time you had her
do a target? Do you remember what you did with her? Russell: “Interesting” is an analytical idea. I’m not trying to
interest you; I’m trying to surprise you!
Russell: Yes. We went to our upstairs work room which was
really a sitting room, was an easy chair and a couch. She laid Debra: You know, in all of these years that I’ve been studying
down on the couch. I said, “It’s 3 o’clock now, Hal is at some remote viewing, I’ve never heard anyone suggest using that
kind of distant location.” Well you currently heard this on film, word, what “surprises” you. See, this is already extremely

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:5

helpful! so I was totally queued up to be examined in experimental
psychology. I mean here I am: a 20 year-old trying to explain
Russell: It’s all about signals and noise. I have them sitting to the Chairman of the Psych Department, why I don’t want
down quietly, I’m chatting with them, and my last instruction - to take any of the stupid courses, but I’m prepared to take
the thing I always, always use in this kind of thing - I often deal their qualifying exam. And they politely explained, “If you
with army people who have never done this and don’t believe want a degree in Psychology, you’ll have to take psychology
in it. I say, “You can’t do this wrong because all I’m asking you courses.” That’s a long answer to your question, but I was sort
to do is look at your own internal process and just tell me what of prepared for the job I created for myself.
you’re experiencing. There’s nothing. No mumbo-jumbo here.
Hal’s hiding some place, you’re connected to him, there’s no Debra: I have to tell you this is a tangent here, but you know
separation between you and Hal in consciousness, and I just I’m in a psychology Ph.D program right now and I have one
want you to tell me what comes into your awareness that year left and I’m not supposed to take my qualifying exams for
might pertain to where he is. What’s new? What’s surprising? another year, but I just recently had that same conversation
He’s going to be in a visually interesting place. He’s not going with my Ph.D Chair and said “You know I’m ready to take my
to be hiding in a black box.” exams right now, I don’t have to study, like I could just do it
right now, right here.” And he said, “No, we’re not doing that,
Debra: What would you do if someone said, “Well, I’m just not you’re going to have to wait.” I was just kind of floored and I
seeing anything”. You must have sometimes had that happen, was like, “What the heck am I doing here?”
right?
Russell: And you’ve never heard this story, you’ve sort of gone
Russell: I once went with a visiting scientist who was a part of through it?
an oversight panel. I can’t remember his name, a very famous
Israeli physicist whose name I just can’t remember right now. Debra: Yea, exactly. That’s incredible. But, going back to when
And Hal and another guy went to hide some place, and I’m you’re guiding someone through a session, what do you do?
sitting with this well-known Israeli man, and he said, “I don’t
know about you Russ, but when I close my eyes it’s dark, I’m Russell: My guy’s first name is Yakir, Yakir Aharonov. Probably
just not getting anything.” And I said, “Well, the time is almost going to win a Nobel Prize in Physics shortly.
up, they’ve been at their place for a half hour, why don’t you
just close your eyes and make up something. Pretend that you Debra: Wow, and he turned out to be an excellent remote
see something and tell me what you are making up, what sort viewer without having to try.
of thing comes to your mind if I ask you to make up something?
Russell: Everybody I sit with turns out to be a pretty good
Just free associate.” And he said, “Well, what I’m looking at are
remote viewer.
some ducks like around my mother’s farm in Israel, she raises
ducks and I see all these stupid ducks gathered together, that’s Michelle: Can I sit with you?!
my image.” I said, “Well that’s wonderful, can you draw that?”
And he drew a duck for me on the road. And the place they Russell: The secret here that’s not really known is that we got
were hiding was at the duck pond in Palo Alto. a lot of money for doing ESP research, like a million dollars a
year, two million dollars a year and most of the people who
Debra: That’s pretty darn good. And what prompted you to gave us money wanted to see something psychic. And what
say that? How did you know to suggest that? To just imagine I would do, I would say, “I have an interesting object in my
it, or pretend? briefcase here. I sort of knew that this was going to happen,
but I’m not going to do a demonstration for you because if I
Russell: Well I’ve studied psychology - I’m a physicist - but
show you something psychic, you’ll then decide that it was a
I’ve studied psychology in college. As it turns out, I’ve been
trick and you’ll spend your time trying to figure out how I did
unsuccessful at learning another language. For certain
the trick.” ‘Cause people understand that I have a background
reasons, I can’t do that. So, I took a second major in college in
in magic and I could probably fool them. So I said, “I will lead
psychology. So I knew a lot about experimental psychology and
you through remote viewing. Here’s a piece of paper and I
abnormal psychology and Jungian psychology. So I was not an
want you to draw a picture of the object I’ve brought to you.”
engineer that just dropped into the ESP lab, I’d actually been
It could be very easy to do. And I would then lead this under
thinking about things like this my whole life. I mean, I knew all
Secretary of Defense or general, or whomever I was talking
about association and free response and I knew a lot about
to, and I would lead them into a remote viewing session and
psychology. In fact, when I went to Columbia graduate school,
they would then draw my object. And I had very, very good
what I wanted to do was get my degree in Physics. I wanted
success rate with that. I have a couple of favorite objects. I
to get my PHD in Experimental Psychology but I wanted to
don’t always bring the same one, because I don’t want the
take courses in the physics department because I felt I was
word to get out, but I have three favorite objects that I would
prepared to take the psychology qualifying exam on the spot. I
bring with me. All of them were various kinds, shiny and metal
had just read a big, fat handbook on experimental psychology,
in different shapes.

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:6

Debra: You’ve personally got these great effects with these think there are people out in field distribution like Ingo and
people. Do you think there’s something about you? Joe McMoneagle and Pat Price.

Russell: You can ask a surviving witness. You could ask Jessica, Now Hella is quite interesting. In the beginning of my story I
because I did this with her in a quite noisy café. She said, was talking about Hella being brought in to be the control, and
“You know, I’ve never actually taken part in a remote viewing we had done a series of remote viewing experiments designed
experiment.” I said, “Well this is the right moment Jessica, by Ingo, the “psychic hide and go seek” where someone goes
here’s a napkin. I’ve got an object for you” and I would lead out into the Bay area to one of 60 possible targets and then
her into a remote viewing and she made a terrifically good the “stay at home psychic” has to describe what it looks like,
description of an object which I’d just then put in her hand. and you know all about that. In doing that, Pat Price got
7 out of the 9 matched in the first place. That is, if Hal had
Debra: And that’s Jessica Utts? She’s been the President of the been kidnapped 9 days in a row, Pat would have found him
American Statistical Association for a while. the first place he looked in 7 out of those 9 cases. And that
was significant. Odds of better than 1 in 100,000 in 9 trials.
Russell: Yes, she’s a living, trustworthy person. This isn’t So that’s an amazing efficiency of psychic functioning - to do
hard to do; I’m sort of trying to get people to come out of an experiment where your total is of 9 trials. That’s really very
the psychic closet and admit they have psychic abilities. That’s hot stuff.
the pitch in my two-hour documentary. Psychic abilities are
available and you can do this, and we’ve done it with all kinds Debra: Yeah. That’s pretty impressive.
of people. It’s not hard to do.
Russell: Hella was significant, at 1 in a million. So Hella was
Debra: So you know Hella turned out to be excellent, Pat Price 10x more significant than the most psychic man in the world.
did, Ingo Swan did, Joe McMoneagle. Do you feel that there’s
something that sets apart those who really excelled, let’s say Debra: And that’s pretty stunning considering she was your
Pat Price - what set him apart from some other people who control to start off with.
would try to do this?
Russell: That’s right. You said you had some questions about
Russell: My opinion is ESP is like a musical ability and some the phenomenology of psychic functioning and I said, “Well we
people sit down at a piano. My good friend was composing have a lot of data but we don’t really understand much.” Now,
as a four-year old. He would just sit at the piano and music Pat Price could certainly draw much more detailed drawings
would just come out of him. He’d just play and play and play. of something that we wanted to find. I mean, he was a high-
And that’s the way he came. He became a pianist, of course: a quality analytic psychic; you give him coordinates for example,
composer. And nobody had to teach him a thing. He just heard and he could draw essentially a mechanical drawing of what
the music. There’s a piano in the house and he just sat down was there. Hella couldn’t really do that, but Hella could draw
and played. well enough so that you could match up her nine drawings
with the nine places. It turned out that she got five first place
I had a very nice piano in the house with me for a while, I matches and four second places matches, and it wasn’t her
was piano-sitting and I tried very hard. I took piano lessons fault. On another day with other judges, she would have
unsuccessfully as a little child and I really wanted to learn to gotten them all right. What happened was, four of the targets
play piano. I spent half a year unsuccessfully, because I simply comprised of two pairs of very similar targets. For example,
couldn’t remember music. I could recognize a lot of music. I her famous “pedestrian overpass” which you’ve probably
have a pretty good memory for “what’s that tune” in classical seen. That was ranked 2nd place. We don’t tell people that
music; but if I wanted to learn to play something and I made it was ranked 2nd place because the other target in that pool
a mistake, I’d have to go back to the beginning, and all I had was a set of railroad tracks; a railroad bridge. So it was tracks
was muscle memory, and I was at a disadvantage, because my with an overhead catamaran support. The judge said, “What
vision is very poor so I can’t actually read music, so I had to am I suppose to do?” and he guessed wrong. And the other
memorize it. pair of targets: one was a plaza in city hall and the other was
a plaza at SRI; and the judge couldn’t get the right one. So in
So, I’m at the other end of the scale. So even though I wanted rank order judging, first and second place are very close to
to play piano, it wasn’t going to happen. In between are most one another. So Hella came out at one in a million, whereas
people. In the 1930’s, every well brought up woman knew the two that Price missed were way down at the bottom and
they had to play the piano, as soon as the family gathered those were real misses.
around the piano; she would play and they would sing. So,
somehow playing songs on the piano is something essentially Debra: That’s a good point because in that case I would have
everybody can do, unless you’ve got some tragic flaw that perhaps just called to disqualify that trial due to both photos
prevents you from doing that. And I think that psychic ability is being too close.
that way. I think that everybody, to a greater or lesser degree,
if you set the stage for them, they could be pretty psychic. I Russell: The whole thing was done double blind with no

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:7

replacement. So, some other person prepared our 60 targets took a break and then I said, “What else is there to see? Is
and obviously you can’t have them. In another universe you there anything in addition or different that comes into your
could have separated them out so you didn’t have the railroad awareness?” And she said, “Well, it’s like water going down
target with the overpass target, but if the psychic knew that to a dark trough. But this trough has holes in it.” I said, “Well
she’d say “Well then it becomes a kind of forced choice. I’ve that’s interesting. Can you make a drawing of that?” And she
had a railroad target, so it couldn’t be a railroad. I’ve had my did that. We took a little break for a few minutes. The idea
railroad and I’ve had my church.” So if she knows it’s done is you take a break so you can clean the slate. So we came
without replacement, then she knows once you’ve got a back and I said, “You had a lot to say about this. Do you have
church, you’re not going to get another church and that would any overall feeling for it, about what this place is?” And that’s
require a different kind of judging. when she famously said, “Well it’s squares within squares
within squares.” And she drew that, and that turned out to be
Debra: Yeah, that makes sense. a very close match to what the place actually looked like.

Russell: So it’s a tough one. Our silver forecasting failed Debra: Now, if you hadn’t been there with her, let’s say she
because of a thing like that. We did for silver futures where was in a room by herself and didn’t have you to say “can you
we got nine in a row correct with Keith Harary, and the next sketch that” or “can you turn around and look over here”, but
time we tried to do that, you just sent her into a
it didn’t work and it was room with no help, what
really a failure of the do you think would’ve
judge - which was me, happen? Would there
uh, because Harary said, be a difference in how
“I see a zoo with details” well she could report?
and I said, “No, that’s
not it, it’s actually a little Russell: There would be
race track with racing no result.
cars.” And in the target
pool of four things, there Debra: And why is that?
was a zoo and a little
racing car thing, so it Russell: Because
made it very hard. With I handled all the
little experience, this analytical parts of the
was the first thing I had experiment for her, she
to judge. I never did any just had to lay there
judging, and I guessed and talk into her tape
wrong. Because we had recorder. She had no
done nine in a row, our responsibility for any
investor was very enthusiastic, so there was a lot of money of the mechanics of the experiment except telling me what
riding on this second series. Numerous things were changed. she’s experiencing. And then from time to time I would hand
Unfortunately. We were in sort of a financial bubble at that her a clipboard and say, “draw whatever you’re seeing” and
time, rather than doing good experiments. We should not then I would take away the clipboard. She didn’t have to worry
have had the interviewer being the judge, because we know about “am I getting a good answer?”, or “am I doing what they
that there’s problems with that. want?”

Debra: So many people think that if a trial fails or an Debra: So, essentially you were acting like one lobe, or one
experiment fails that it’s the remote viewer’s fault - they’re part, of her brain?
not looking at all the different factors of the judges that target
Russell: Exactly! That is exactly what I was doing. Remote
the photo selection. There are so many factors that go into
viewing represents the bicameral part of the brain. I’m doing
this. But one of the questions I have is, let’s say you take away
all the analysis to the best of my ability and she does the non-
the experimental design and you’re just using remote viewing
analytic direct experience. If I wasn’t there, if I just put her
for practical application, was there -
in a room and said, “You’ve got ten minutes now or fifteen
Russell: I have to finish going through the Hella experiment. minutes now; I’d like you to make a description of where Hal
She said, “I see motion. There’s something moving.” I said, is sitting”, there would be no way for her to actually do that
“That’s very interesting, can you draw anything corresponding because she wouldn’t know what to do.
to that?” And she drew some arrows: one following another. I
Debra: Would you say that’s true for most of the people that
said, “Okay, let’s take a break.” Usually I do these experiments
you were providing that function for as well?
doing three sessions with three breaks and a summary. So she

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:8

Russell: Ingo’s a professional psychic, so Ingo doesn’t need any about the color or the texture or the material? Turn it over in
help. Ingo has been working hard all of his life to learn how to your hand, did something new show up?” And then you get a
do what I’ve been describing. Pat Price was a natural psychic, succession of what Ingo called “Aesthetic Impact” of how the
but I sort of set the stage for him. I kept asking him “do this, do object actually interacts with you as you turn it over and look
that, take a break, do something else”. Price was a functioning at it. And then you show the object to the person.
psychic. He functioned in the world as a psychic person. He
knows how to turn on the ESP switch. But, in the laboratory, Debra: And would you say that that is really important, the
we want things a little more structured, because I was sort aesthetic impact? Where the person is really experiencing it
of the intermediary for the CIA. It’s like going to the Delphi as if they were touching it and as if their body was in contact?
Oracle. You’ve got the guy who comes in with a question to How important - I know Ingo thought that was very important,
the Oracle, then you’ve got the priest who deals with the and after someone would have a sense like “the sun is shining
Oracle, and the priest is the one who talks to the Oracle and in my eyes” or “the building’s bigger than me”, as if their body
then tries to make sense out of what she says. The priest is the is there, how important do you think that sensory experience
one who questions the Oracle, and that was my job. is?

Debra: Wow! Russell Targ, the Priest. ( Laughter ) I like that. Russell: It’s very important as long as they’re not guessing.
You know, it’s pretty astonishing the way you are laying this You see, you don’t want the person to get fixated on the
out. So what would you then say to people that have an wrong target. My psychic said, “I could smell the animals, I can
interest in remote viewing today, maybe they’ve shown some see the water on the ground.” See, he was going on a whole
promise with their abilities but they don’t really have the analytical trip to the zoo which he knew quite well and he
benefit of having you act as their priest, or the left side of could tell me all sorts of incorrect things about what was going
their brain. So is this where training and perhaps what Ingo on, but these were things that once went on when he was last
discovered? I know people don’t need to go through all of there, so he gave me a very heartfelt aesthetic description of
the training or follow his method, but is there some value in an incorrect place.
having something in writing if you can’t have the benefit of
Russell Targ? Sitting there with you, day after day. Debra: Oh no! So his mind kind of just got locked into that
and then from his memory and who knows, maybe a part of
Russell: Well, it’s easier than that. If two people decide to work him was connecting but it was connecting with the zoo, not
together, if you could find a friend and you have the friend put the correct place.
an object in a bag and come to your house and say, “I have an
object in the bag, it’s a quite interesting object. I know what Russell: Right, because he was an experienced psychic he then
it is so I can send it to you by mental telepathy or you could said, “You know, that’s not the place, it’s really something
visualize what I’m going to show you in a little while. Make a entirely different” which he then described correctly. But as
little picture or two of what you think you’re going to see in an inexperienced judge, I said “well you’ve got this whole
a few minutes. You can have them do that with some breaks aesthetic impact, and generally the first thing a psychic sees is
and then you open the bag and show them the object, which the most valuable”. So, I incorrectly said, “I think he’s gone to
will probably correspond moderately well with the object. the zoo.” And then he was extremely angry with me. He said,
And you do that a couple of times and then you show up with “I’ve done all this work and you still don’t trust me, I told you
two bags and you mix them up on the floor, and put one on the zoo was not the right answer! How could you choose the
the table and say, “There’s something interesting in this bag. I zoo?” And that was basically the end of our friendship and the
do not know what it is. You see I do not want to teach you to end of the showroom forecasting.
read my mind; I want to teach you to experience the world.
Debra: Oh no! Well remote viewers can get very sensitive
So we’ve got this bag here with a paper clip on it, I’m going to
about things like that. But you know that brings up an
put it on the floor because I don’t want to teach you to try and
interesting…
look into the bag like Superman. So this is not an exercise of
looking into the bag, I want you to look into your awareness of Russell: Especially when there’s a lot of money involved!
what we’re going to show you in a little while, which happens
to be the object in the bag. So in this case, I’m not sending it Debra: Oh no! How much did you lose over that one?
to you by ESP, you can directly see what the target is; which
would be direct clairvoyance or you could look into your Russell: Well I didn’t, but the other person lost in the six
immediate future and see what am I going to show you in ten figures.
minutes at the end of the experiment and I put an interesting
object into your hand. So, we’ve got a target identified, make Debra: Ouch! I can only imagine! But, do you think - I just had
a little sketch of what you see remembering that I don’t know this experience because I was serving as an interviewer or
what this object is.” And they’ll draw something and you’ll say, monitor for a student - I tend to just be my own remote viewer
“Well that’s interesting. Could you look at it again and see it and not really monitor people too much, but, she was having
what it feels like in your hand, for example? Could you tell me an analytic overlay of a circus tent and I knew it wasn’t going

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to be a circus. But because of what she was describing, it was visit Premier Brezhnev’s office”. And everything she saw was
most likely a building. And because I had realized at that point correct. The red door with the brass upholstery tacks, the
in my mind I had it solidified as the interviewer that she must windows on the left and the desk on the right. I did not ask
be describing a building and then she went into this whole what’s behind the door.
description of a building. It turned then that it was totally
wrong, the target was of Crater Lake. It was a photo flying over Debra: Well that’s just incredible that they let you into the
Crater Lake. So was it possible that I got the wrong idea in office and that you actually got that confirmation. Do you
my mind similar to what you were saying, and then perhaps think she did so well because you would, in the future, end
telepathically she went to where I was going - to a building up getting that confirmation as far as your feedback? Do you
that wasn’t even there? think there was some connection to that?

Russell: Well, that’s a multi-part question. First of all, Crater Russell: That’s a very interesting question. I’d never thought
Lake is like being in a building. If you’ve ever been to Crater of that! The first question after that was, “Was she still alive?”
Lake, Crater Lake is a small lake surrounded on all sides by and the answer to that was yes. Hella was still alive.
2,000 ft. high mountains; so its not unlike being in a tent for
example. Debra: So she did get that feedback, and you were able to
share that with her.
Debra: Interesting! I’ve never been there, so I didn’t know
that. And the photo was aerial, up high so you just see more Russell: Let’s see, I was there in ’84 and she died in ’99 so I must
of a round circle, so that could have been part of the problem have given her feedback on that. I don’t remember giving her
because she was actually trying to send herself to the location. feedback, but it was quite likely because I was in touch with
Very interesting. her. See, I went to Russia after the program. I couldn’t go to
Russia during the program because I had top-secret clearance.
Russell: Now, I will often have the experience of going to the I left the program in ’82, and I went to Russia in ’83 and ’84.
place with the person. So if they have a problem, I can try and See, my daughter was with me - I think it must have been ’84.
help them. For example, the CIA once targeted Hella and me,
this is a demonstration of ability task: “Can you tell us what, Debra: You really have an astounding memory for these dates
can you describe Premier Brezhnev’s office in the Kremlin?” and places! I mean, were talking, what, 30 years ago or more!
So we know we’re not in the cornfield, and we’re in a building. So, I know we are almost out of time…
Can you describe that. So Hella and I are in our little workroom,
Russell: The only things that really etched in my memory,
and she said, “Well I’m walking down a hall and everything is
because I’m doing magic. So it’s like, Bobby Fischer was a great
red color. At the end of this hall, there’s a door with an arch
chess player, happened to be my brother-in-law, and he could
over it, and the door is covered with red leather, held in place
tell you about every chess game he ever played through his
by brass upholstery tacks.”
whole life.
So I’m already salivating because I know that that’s a strong
Debra: Wait, he was your brother! Bobby Fischer was your
identifiable, unique object. And I said, “Can you go into the
brother-in-law?
room?” I had the idea she’ll just drift in, and she said, “No the
door is closed.” So I said, “Okay, I’ll open the door.” And she Russell: Yeah.
said, “It’s dark in the room, they’re 8 hours ahead of us.” So I
said, “Okay I’ll turn on the lights, we can look around and see Debra: He was married to your sister?
what’s there.” She said, “Well on the right hand side, there’s a
really big desk covered with glass, and on the left side I think Russell: I was married to his sister.
I’m looking out on Red Square. And by the way, behind the
desk there’s a door on the wall: there’s a wood panel wall.” Debra: Wow, that, I never heard that before! Is there anything
you could tell us about that? What was he like in person?
I said, “Okay, why don’t we open the door and see what’s
there.” And she said, “Well, there’s a flight of stairs going Russell: Well, he gets bad press. In person, he’s humorous,
down.” So I said, “Well, what do you see as you walk down very intelligent, interested in what’s going on. Amiable, sort
the stairs?” She said, “I see a computer bay: lots and lots of of a little self-serving, like President Trump, everything circles
computers.” around him. After he won the championship, he stayed with
us, but he had gotten into a very anti-Semitic way of thinking,
And at that point I began to get frightened, I felt vulnerable and we eventually kicked him out because we didn’t want him
being in the depths of the Kremlin, like who knows what kind talking that way around our little children. There are reasons
of psychic countermeasures you’re going to find. So I said, “I why he would be anti-Semitic, which I don’t want to go into
think we’ve got enough, let’s get out of here.” And two years now; I don’t want to put it on the tape.
later I was l lecturing at Premier Brezhnev’s office and they
said, “Did you want to see anything?” and I said, “I’d like to Debra: Yeah. Well did you ever play chess with him, yourself?

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Russell: Um, I once played with him a blindfold game, and he still with me?
beat me without problems, swiftly.
Debra: Yes! Michelle and I have done a lot of work with Marty
Debra: And I’m assuming he was wearing the blindfold and and his organization and we’ve had some pretty good runs
not yourself. (Laughter ) too. So yeah it’s exciting to see what’s happening now.

Russell: We were in different rooms. He was eating lunch in Russell: The secret to his success right now is that he’s working
a different room and I was playing with both sides. But that with very talented people. So if you’ve got people who can
reminded me of another version of chess, where each person score 60-70, you can make a lot of money. If you’ve got
has a full chess set in front of them but they don’t see where ordinary people hovering around 50, they will have occasional
the other person moves. So, you’ve got a referee who is on “hot-runs” and then they’ll crash and you lose all of your
the move, and they’ll then say to the other person “White has money. So there’s no secret as to what targets you should use,
moved”. And you keep track of your moves and try and figure how you should do it, if the people are not innately out on the
out where the other guy moves. And it’s quite an interesting table of distribution. It’s not going to work because you can’t
and playable game. And he didn’t like that, because I would average noise.
capture his pieces and he would say, “Where did my bishop
go?” and they’d say, “Well, Russell captured that”. Debra: I agree with you right there. Here is another question.
I’ve watched a video where you were monitoring or
Debra: He didn’t like that too much, huh? (Laughter) Are you interviewing Hella, and I felt that you were going into a trance
familiar with Darren Brown? He does all those YouTube videos. state yourself, and maybe that’s what you were talking about
He’s a mentalist and his name is Darren Brown. There’s a video before; of going to the target location with her. But I was like,
where he’s playing against eight or nine chess masters, and he “Russell looks like he’s in a trance.” You know how you get this
beats them all, all at once. And basically, he does it, they’re feeling when someone’s in a deeper state? Would you say that
all at different tables, and he memorizes the moves that one you were aware of that?
makes at one table and then he copies that and makes the
same move at the next table and then somehow by the end, Russell: I’m on this side of the trance, but I would drift in
he’s beat everyone. It’s pretty phenomenal. and out of a remote viewing state. See, I’m operating a tape
recorder, I’m taking notes, I’m watching the time. So I am
Russell: That’s very interesting. So he must be a chess player in pretty analytical but I would certainly - if she starts to say
addition to being a mentalist. He’s not doing this blindfolded, something that sounds analytical then I will announce her
I presume. taking a break now.

Debra: No, he’s not. He’s just showing that he could beat Debra: So you would really help her to get out of the analytic
several of the best players in the world all at once. I’ll send you part. Maybe trance is a strong word, but when you say “remote
the link. It’s pretty cool, I’m sure you’d enjoy it. Well, we don’t viewing state”, you know, somehow maybe saying “getting
have a whole lot of time left, so I just have one more question into the zone” or “getting into the flow”, but I just felt that.
and then Michelle has a few questions for you.
Russell: I described the thing in Brezhnev’s office. She says,
Russell: Well, I have something that you should know. Our “its dark” and I say, “I’ll turn on the lights”. I’m pretty much
work at SRI worked very well because we had very talented with her that whole trip. In a certain sense you can say that we
people and we had some good ideas about how to work with were both having an out-of-body experience traveling through
them. So I would say that for naïve people, an interviewer is the Kremlin together, and when she needed the lights turned
very important to show people the moves. So after they’ve on or the door opened, I would do that for her.
learned the moves, then they may not need an interviewer.
And the other thing to know is that, Marty Rosenblatt is now Debra: So you really had to be intimate with her each moment.
doing very, very well with the Silver Forecasting because he You couldn’t be sitting there while she’s doing it and thinking
now has a couple of people who individually are scoring in the about your taxes.
65-70/75% bracket in binary trials. So that’s what he’s shown
through what must be 15 years of work, is that you can’t Russell: No, no. I’m always very close with anybody I’m leading
make any progress unless you have really talented people. in remote viewing. I’m really paying very close attention
He has the idea - very democratic idea, that everybody has to what they’re doing, even if it’s somebody, some army
psychic ability and that people want to play, and he would set officer across the desk, because I know that I really have to
up groups with lots and lots of people. For a period of time listen to every word he says, even when I don’t know what
they would do very well and then they’d crash. But if you work the target is. I’ve become very skilful at discerning whether
with people who actually have ability like, Hal and I chose six what the person is saying sounds like remote viewing. I can
people from a big group of army folks, and they continued. Joe give you an example of that. Jeffrey Mishlove got his Ph.D in
McMoneagle was one and uh, I can’t remember right now the Parapsychology as you know, and during that period he was
other. But, the army people continued their ability. Are you very interested to see what we do at SRI. So we sent Elizabeth

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Rauscher off to hide some place. And I was sitting with Jeffrey when you hit it, you know, if you can be diligent about your
and I said, “Well, Elizabeth should be at her target now. I have own inner processes, would you agree that that could be the
no idea where that is, of course. What comes to view?” And next best solution?
Jeffrey said, “Well it looks to me like Macy’s.” So that sentence
communicated to me, first of all, he’s not doing a remote Russell: I have the idea that it would be tough to learn remote
viewing. What he’s doing is taking an analytical guess based viewing from a book.
on a flash that he got. So I rudely said to him, “Come on,
Jeffrey, don’t tell me about Macy’s! Let’s take a break. Tell me Debra: Did you find that over time maybe in the end, Hella or
what you’re experiencing that makes you say Macy’s. What some others like them may not have needed your guidance
images do you have that make you say that?” And he said, as much towards the end? So, in that case, some learning did
“Well I see something like a bunch of coat hangers on a rail, take place?
and they’re one after another after another.” And I said, “Well
Russell: Joe, for example, was ready to march off. Joe
that’s very interesting; can you draw that?” and he then made
McMoneagle was a unique, outstanding person. Yeah, he used
an excellent drawing of the Pedestrian Overpass, which was
a monitor in the army. He doesn’t do it anymore.
where Elizabeth was hiding. That required me to know that
Macy’s was not the answer to the remote viewing trial. Debra: How many years would you say he had a monitor?
Debra: And how did you know that? Did you know that Russell: Um, well, he had a monitor for six trials with me, and
logically? he got five out of those six in first place matches. So he was
independently significant in 1 in 1,000 in six trials, which is
Russell: It’s never the answer, because I need him to tell me
really outstanding. He then went back to Fort Meade and the
about his experience, rather than to name a department store.
protocol was to work. I’ll guess that he worked for another
Debra: So naming it… year with a monitor because I know Skip Atwater was working
as a monitor. Skip studied with Ingo so Skip knew what remote
Russell: People think that they can name it. They say, “I know viewing was. Skip was the manager of the Fort Meade program
what that looks like. The S.P.D. Parlor; that looks like the with all of those viewers. All of whom I had trained with as
airport.” And indeed it might look like what you’re naming it, a monitor there, so all of them had an idea of what remote
but it might be something entirely different. If somebody said, viewing sounds like.
“I think I’m inside a tent”, I would say to myself, “Well, there is
an awful lot of things that sort of look like a tent.” I’d say, “Let’s Debra: So, it sounds like it was a combination of your own
take a break, tell me what you’re experiencing that makes you expertise, what Ingo picked up from you and then you might
say “tent.” And all kinds of things could come to mind. They have picked up some things from Ingo, and then Skip learned
could say “a tent,” it could be indoors, outdoors. There are from Ingo and then he was monitoring Joe, so Joe got the
many tent-like structures in the world that have nothing to do benefit both of what you and Ingo brought to the table so to
with a tent. You want to be very vigilant against the person speak, until he was ready to just launch on his own.
flipping into analysis, especially early into the interview.
Russell: Ingo was the one who told us the words about
Debra: So really, to sum this all up then: it really is very analytical overlay and that analysis is a problem. I had never
important what the interviewer is doing. You’re pretty much heard that before even though it was in Warcollier’s book,
saying that you can’t just take a brand new person into remote Mind to Mind. He understood all that in the 40’s, but I had
viewing and not give them a monitor or give them anything. not read that yet. But, it totally registered. Once Ingo started
You need to give them at least a monitor or some instructions talking about mental noise, I totally got that, like the prepared
of how to proceed. mind. As soon as Steve Jobs saw the user interface, he couldn’t
wait to get himself out of there and build that. He just had to
Russell: You need an experienced monitor to steer them away see it on the screen to create Apple computer; he didn’t need
from analytical overlay. any further - he was a prepared mind. He just looked at us and
said, “Let me out of here. I know what the future looks like.”
Debra: That’s important because sometimes you do hear And Xerox closed down P.A.R.C. and Jobs created Apple.
people say, “Oh well, you know people don’t need training”.
You know I’m an advocate for instruction just because a lot of Debra: Just as soon as he had that vision. So what would be
times people don’t have the benefit of a trained monitor, so the analogy there, then?
the idea of instruction would then be okay. Well, what do you
do when you get into having to learn how to recognize analytic Russell: You’ve got to have your viewer understand the
overlay yourself when it’s coming up. It’s hard. But that’s what problem of mental noise. That you’re looking for, as soon as
Ingo did over time. So would you say - would you agree that you want to name the thing, you’ve got to take a break. It’s not
if you don’t have the benefit of a monitor and you can’t find that you’re on the wrong track, but once, uh, you were asking
a friend - that having some guidelines to get yourself out of it me before, “What if they were by themselves?” Well, if Jeffrey

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was by himself and saw Macy’s, he would be stuck. He would No cool down, I just turned my chair, closed my eyes, took a
be anchored to Macy’s. It requires somebody to say, “Okay, couple of deep breaths, and looked for something interesting
that’s interesting, lets take a break. What are you experiencing that popped into my awareness.
that makes you say Macy’s?” It’s not rocket science. You just
have to pry them off of the stuck places. Michelle: Can I ask a question? Have you ever heard of “The
Black Pearl”? I heard about it in a meditation about letting go.
Debra: Yeah, and I love that expression: “it’s not rocket
science”, coming from a physicist. Russell: “The Black Pearl”, maybe? Yeah, I sat with Swami
Muktenanda in 1974. He wanted to know if I saw the black
Russell: I mean, I’ve done this with Art Bell, for example, and pearl in remote viewing, which I did not. He also wanted to
George Noory, where they would have an object and I’m sitting know if we could affect people’s behaviors at a distance. I told
here at my desk and I’d describe their object and my desk was him that there is a lot of evidence for distant mental influence
full of interesting things. I’d just close my eyes and look for on living systems.
something that’s qualitatively
different than anything I have in Michelle: Because I was told that
front of me, some new interesting you have to kind of shed every
three-dimensional object. single thing you know to be a
good remote viewer. That was
For example, I was once sitting at the statement that was told to
my desk at SRI just before I left me: To shed everything you know
because I had a very boring task. and think you know, to become a
I was spreading the numbers for good remote viewer.
my program on a spreadsheet on
my computer, and it was pretty Russell: I wouldn’t say that. I
hard for me cause I don’t see well, wouldn’t agree with that. You
but that’s what I was doing. And have to quiet your mind. Being a
I get a phone call from a woman meditator is very helpful because
who said, “You gave a very nice it gives you access to the “off
talk at my house.” (A wealthy switch”, which many people
house in Hillsborough), and I don’t have. If you can’t stop the
said, “Thank you. I was happy to ongoing chatter, you can’t do a
be there.” And she said, “But I’ve remote viewing. It’s a signal and
lost my tennis bracelet and my noise problem. It’s really noise
husband will kill me if I don’t find management. You’ve got to get
it! Can you help me find it?” And rid of the environmental noise.
I said, “Well, I actually don’t know You’ve got to get rid of your
what a tennis bracelet is. Can you analysis. Remote viewing… see,
tell me what I’m looking for?” we talked to a famous terrible
And she described this circlet of person, Sid Gottlieb, who was in
diamonds, platinum ring with the CIA, who invented or who
diamonds set in it and she said, “I ran the MK Ultra program, and
have no idea where I could have he thought it would be cool if
lost it.” So I just turned my chair we could give LSD to our remote
around away from the screen, to viewers. This is in ’72 so it was
look at the plain wall in front of an amusing idea for me. But I
me and closed my eyes and I said, “In your property, is there already knew that remote viewing was an intellectual task,
a place where you’ve got two 4x4’s painted white, about four not necessarily analytical, but you needed your functioning in
feet away from each other in the grass? Just two posts painted order to separate the signal from the noise. The whole process
white.” She said, “Well, yeah by my back door there are two in remote viewing is to separate the signal from the noise, like
4x4’s marking a path out of the house.” And I said, “Take a when you meditate, no matter how good of a meditator you
look, I think it’s near there, I’ve just had a flash of this thing”, are, all kinds of junk is going to pop up into your meditation
which I wouldn’t normally say. I mean, it’s a very unusual thing because that’s the way it is - it’s seeing things come up. And in
for me to get a picture of these two 4x4’s with pointed tops. remote viewing, you’ve got to be aware of the things that are
The image just came to me. And she came back in five minutes. going to come up that have nothing to do with the target. So
“Oh thank you so much!” She didn’t say how could I thank you’ve got to recognize the signal and recognize the noise and
you, cause I could have probably thought of something. She take a break, or let go of the picture. If you get a picture of the
just said, “Thank you very much. It was right where you said.” Macy’s department store - which is a big analytical thing - you

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know that that’s not the target. Or, it’s not yet the target. If Russell: Well, the thing that interests me most right now is
you describe, “I see a brick building. I see arches, a big piece my dreams. I’m interested in precognitive dreams. I mean
of glass, this reminds me of Macy’s,” well Macy’s may appear precognition is certainly a big part of remote viewing, because
at the end of 10 minutes of remote viewing because you’ve you can often describe what you’re going to see for feedback.
described the bits and pieces of Macy’s. But if you come in And that’s often helpful. Or you may have a precognitive
with Macy’s, it’s most likely, never is the right answer. target. With the Silver Forecasting, you don’t get to see the
thing until afterwards. The ARV is straight precognition. In my
Debra: So what happens at the beginning of the session is dream life, I remember my dreams pretty well. And I have to
different than what happens at the end; you would look at learn to separate the anxiety dreams and the wish-fulfilment
the data or perceptions differently, or at least the naming of dreams from the dreams that are bizarre or unusually clear.
things differently. So for example, I still have anxiety dreams about college
where I’m going to be examined and my worst dream is an
Russell: If the person comes in naming something, I would examination on the blackboard and I can’t see it. I had a replay
assume that he’s screwed unless he starts over. Because of that recently. I’m in a movie class at Stanford and they sat
once you have a strong analytical hook into something, it’s us down in one of the little lecture theatres and there is a
very hard to undo that. I often would tell people before we guy that looked just like my nemesis at Columbia who was a
would start. I would say, “Is there anything that you should teacher that didn’t speak English very well, and everything
tell me before we should start this session? Has anything was on the blackboard and I couldn’t see it. It was a terrible re-
happened to you that we should debrief before we start the stimulating of that bad experience. So if I have a dream about
session?” And they might say, “Yeah! I was almost run into by examinations, I know that that’s an anxiety dream. But if I
an orange Volkswagen”, Joe McMoneagle once told me. And have a dream that is unusual and has bizarre elements and is
I said, “Good. Lets get rid of that orange Volkswagen and put unusually clear, then I will tell my wife about that and she can
it right on the top of the paper and call that an AOL.” So I had enter that into the figurative “big book”, and I get credit for it
mentioned that for a long - I don’t know if I’ve ever told anyone if it’s correct. Because you’ve got to separate. If I told my wife
that, but we would always, with the army people especially, every dream I had and some are correct, well that wouldn’t be
we would always debrief any kind of analytical overlay that very interesting. But, I’ve learned to separate out those that
you would come in with. have unusual elements.
Debra: And that seems like something that Ingo incorporated So, two days ago I had a dream where I was invited to Esalen
into his work. I know that he would make that suggestion that Institute where I’ve been many, many times. I taught there
people would have to declare what it is they just dealt with for 40 years, so I really know it well. And I was invited to
and anything bothering them or distracting them… That makes join a circle in the big house, and I couldn’t do that because
sense. But Michelle, you had a question that we had discussed it was $1,500 admission and I didn’t have that money to pay
before Russell had joined us. Do you remember that one? admission. So I woke up and thought all of that is really quite
bizarre and realistic. And I told my wife about it, and then, by
Michelle: Well, I was thinking about the fact that Art Bell
10:30, I was sitting in front of my big monitor here and a guy,
passed and I started thinking to myself, not that I’m saying this
I can’t remember his first name, who’s making a film, sent me
or anything or whatever, but I knew that we were going to
the film he’s made and it opens with a circle sitting in the big
be talking to you and I wanted to kind of ask you, how you
house, including me. And I haven’t been to Esalen since 2012.
would want to be remembered? I know that’s kind of a morbid
And there it is on my screen and there I am in the circle. I
question, but I think that it’s also important because it brings
actually felt shocked when I saw that picture. It was really a
out the most important things that you have done in your life
shock of recognition, right out my dream!
that you want to impact. Like a big, huge, strong message.
Debra: And you had just had that dream that night?
Russell: I’d say that I had an insatiable curiosity, like the
elephant’s child. I don’t take anything for granted. I always Russell: Right. I saw it on the screen about a half hour after I
have more questions. Whenever I go to a lecture, I’m the one had just relayed the story to my wife.
who has the most questions.
Debra: That is pretty awesome, and what about the $1,500?
Debra: Yes, we’ve noticed that! (Laughter) We’ve noticed that
at the conference, you always ask a question after every talk. Russell: That was just free-floating anxiety. I have a lot of
dreams like that. I would say that these days, once a month, I
Russell: Because I’m always trying to find out, “What is the have a quite high-quality precognitive dream about something
thing they haven’t told us?” that’s going to happen a few hours after waking up or in a
movie.
Michelle: Right. That’s what we want you to do, tell us - what
haven’t you told us? Debra: Do they seem to always pertain to your own life? Or
have you had any that pertain to wider society?

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Russell: Some of them pertain to just what’s in the film. silver ballpoint pen in this pretty empty church. And she just
Before I saw the E.T. film, I had a really clear dream in which came over to say hello. I was wearing a jacket and slacks and I
I used to ride a motorcycle all the time, which you may know was sort of odd. This odd person with his nose in his notebook
- so in this dream I was riding my bike down the hill and across and this shiny pen. So she sort of came over to get a better
the bridge and up the other side of the hill over running water. look at “who is this apparition with the curly hair and the dark
And I thought that was pretty unusual, because it sort of had shirt?” And basically said, “Hello. Do you come here often? Are
an unreal Disney quality. So that got me to tell my wife about you a member of the church?” And I said, “I am a member of
it. And that exact thing turns out to be a famous scene in E.T. the church”, and so was she. So I had the advantage of having
which we saw that night. a pretty girl go up with me to see Marc Allen and I handed him
my manuscript and he published it and we got married.
Debra: Wow, that’s really cool! Well, you just brought up one
of the great mysteries of the universe which is: how does Debra: And how long ago was that?
Russell Targ ride a motorcycle if he’s legally blind? (Laughter)
Russell: 15 Years. So I found my wife and my publisher in
Russell: Very carefully. I’m vigilant. (Laughter) church.

Michelle: Let me know when you’re going to be on the road Debra: Wow. Who would ever expect that to happen in
and I’ll just take the day off. (Laughter) church?

Russell: I’ve gotten rid of the motorcycle about 10 years ago. Russell: Well, that’s what A Course in Miracles teaches. The
main teaching in A Course in Miracles is to expect a miracle.
Michelle: What kind of motorcycle did you have?
Debra: Yep! So I have a question, and just let us know if you
Russell: I had a Honda 250 Nighthawk. Quite a nice bike. have to go, because I know we’re over time, well, we have all
night, it’s just how much energy you have. But, if you think to
Michelle: Did you wear a helmet? the most stunning display of Psi, whether PK, or just the most
stunning thing you ever saw that still shocks you, that maybe
Russell: Of course.
we haven’t discussed yet. What would you say that was? Like,
Michelle: Oh wow! You’re a motorcycle dude. something that you still can’t believe you saw, but you know
you saw it.
Russell: I give a pretty good impersonation of somebody who
can see what they’re doing. My wife was aware that I had Russell: Well, if I was going to name something, uh, I was
problems reading because I’d kept my nose in the book. It once doing intuitive remote viewing with Pat Price, and Hal
was clear that I had some kind of problem, but it wasn’t until had gone to South America, Costa Rica. And each day at noon,
we were married for a couple of years that she realized how Pat was supposed to describe where Hal was hiding, and
very bad my vision was. And she said I’ve got to get rid of my we, of course, didn’t get feedback. He’d see a church, or a
motorcycle. “You’re 70 years old!” and the argument was that marketplace, or a harbor, or a volcano and then on day number
if I had gotten into an accident, I would not recover as fast as a 5, Pat didn’t show up. So I’m in my little shielded room at SRI,
younger person. So I got rid of my bike about 10 years ago, but it’s 12:00, Hal is some place, Price didn’t come. So I said, “You
I rode my motorcycle for 35 years in and around the Hillsdale know, remote viewing is so easy; why don’t I just do it?” So I
of Silicon Valley. closed my eyes and I saw an airport, and I saw a long airport
with a building on the left and sand and gravel on the right,
Michelle: Can I ask you a personal question? How did you and ocean at the end of the runway, and that’s what I wrote
meet your wife? down. Sand and gravel on the right, airport building on the
left, ocean at the end of the runway. That was that. Hal came
Russell: I met my wife in church. It’s so funny; I’d gone to back, and he had a picture of an airport building and another
church because Marc Allen, the owner of New World Library, picture of the ocean and he said, “You basically drew exactly
was going to be lecturing on his book. He wrote a book called, where I was.” And we then got a photographer to fly down to
Visionary Business. And I knew that he had just published this island of San Andres and take a picture, and the picture I
Deepak Chopra’s latest book and made a million dollars on it. have in front of me is essentially my drawing of that picture.
So I knew that he has tons of money, and I had just written a The picture was taken from the angle that I was looking at it.
book called, Miracles of Mind and I was having a hard time So I have a picture with the airport running from the lower left
finding a publisher, so I thought that Marc Allen would be a to the upper right and the ocean is at the end of the runway,
good guy to publish this. So I went. It was my church, so I went and the building is on the left, and sand and gravel are on the
to church to listen to Paul, to Marc Allen. So I went to see Marc right. And I would say that that’s my most remarkable contact
Allen, to put this book in his hand as he was in the front of my with remote viewing because I have absolutely positively no
church. After it was done. And I was there writing down some doubt of its genuineness. Nobody could have fooled me. No
notes and my wife Patricia saw me there, with a very shiny possibility of error.

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:15

Debra: Yes, that’s amazing that that’s what it comes down day after he would do a remote viewing, with the CIA, with
to because I’m sure you’ve seen all kinds of amazing feats. I Ken Kress, he would then have a meeting with his Scientology
mean, you’ve worked with Ingo and Uri Geller and so many auditor. And he would tell the Scientologist everything in that
others, but when it comes down to it, you trust your own top-secret activity between him and Ken Kress. And that’s a
experience. That’s pretty profound. Do you feel that spiritual fact. That’s a known fact.
beliefs are important to remote viewers?
Debra: Do you think that the CIA knew he was doing this, at
Russell: Hella and I were the only people in the whole program the time?
at SRI who were not Scientologists.
Russell: I don’t know that but I know that he died six months
Debra: Can you say a little more about that? later.

Russell: Probably not. Scientologists had a big interest in Debra: And is there anything you could tell us about his death?
remote viewing, before us. I mean, Hubbard was interested in I know in one version of your film, I think I remember mention
remote viewing. Ingo and Pat Price were Scientologists. of this, but I know there’s been different versions. But what do
you think happened to him?
Debra: And was it just a coincidence? Did they know each other
before they came in, or was it just a coincidence that all these Russell: I don’t know what happened. The CIA had a problem.
people who had an interest had started out in Scientology? I know that they were worried about Price. The thing in a
nutshell is, what do you do when you discover that Superman
Russell: I’ll never know that. is a double agent? They knew that Price could quiet his mind
and read the launch codes from a nuclear weapon. And that
Debra: Were you concerned there was some kind of conspiracy made them nervous.
of infiltration, or did you ever feel nervous about them being
Scientologists? Debra: Had he done that? Or you’re saying that you knew that
he could do that?
Russell: I was never nervous. Scientologists are sort of
selling ESP as a part of the rewards for joining them, so the Russell: He had potential.
Scientologists were very excited that Ingo and Pat were doing
so well. Michelle: I could see how that could totally scare them.

Debra: Yeah and it’s probably hard to say - you may know Russell: So anyway, when you asked me, what do I believe?
I’ve been studying Ingo’s archives since they’re located at There’s another thing that I believe. I believe that we forecast
the university I’m going to right now for my Ph.D. And so I nine Silver trades in a row where each of them was a 1 in 4
go there every week downstairs to SPECIAL COLLECTIONS trial. And I’m confident that there was no slip-up in that
where his archives are, and one question I was very interested experiment, because the only people involved in that was me
in was: what was the Scientology link? And I have found in one end, interviewing Keith Harary, and my broker at the
correspondence between Ingo and L. Ron Hubbard. But I other end, who had took complete control of the targets. And
haven’t been able to really ascertain if they really had any he was known by the viewer. He was in another place and I
knowledge about Psi or was it really more just there was an didn’t even know him. It was done through an intermediary.
openness. So I was separated from the target and from the guy choosing
the targets. So it was a double blind, triple blind experiment,
Russell: Oh no, no, no. It’s a much more serious problem than so that nobody knew anybody. So I have complete confidence
that. When Pat Price did a serious project for us, where he was in the Silver experiment.
describing a Soviet weapons factory at Semipalatinsk, you’ve
probably seen the nice crane he drew, and other stuff. Right Debra: And that was just stunning.
after that, the week after that, the CIA hired Price to leave
SRI and come live on a farm adjacent to CIA headquarters in Russell: Well, it shows that the future can be known. I would
West Virginia. And Price was then living on a farm owned by sit with Keith and he would describe the funny object that I
the Scientology organization. No doubt about it. And he was was going to show him at the end of the week, and then the
somehow president of something called the Princess Coal week would come and I would show him the object. That’s as
Company, which was also a Scientology organization, and this close to magic that I had ever seen.
is all common knowledge and was in the paper.
Debra: And what would you say as far as your experience with
Debra: But wait. You said the CIA invited him to go work for Uri Gellar? Did you walk away pretty convinced that he was
them. So how is the CIA connected to the Scientology? really doing his PK? I think I remember reading in Mind Reach,
is that where you gave the example that he seemed to be able
Russell: We’ll never know. But what we do know is that each to do some kind manifestation out of thin air?

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:16

Russell: No, no. I would not testify to that. Hal believes that. Debra: And in the end, it may turn out that you’re one of
I was not convinced. I am convinced that he had telepathic the most talented psychic subjects of them all. From your
abilities and some kind of clairvoyant ability. Because again, descriptors to your dreams. So, your wife is keeping track of
in the film we show that I’ve just come from the safe, which your precognitive dreams now, it sounds like?
neither Hal nor I could open. We didn’t know the targets, so I
had a double sealed SRI envelope with a picture in it and Uri Russell: No, nobody’s keeping track.
was able to make quite a good copy of that picture before it
left my inside jacket pocket. So I think he definitely had some Debra: Oh no, that would be good to keep track. I know that’s
clairvoyant ability. work. And did you know that Michelle and I worked with Dale
Graff? We just recently finished up a year-long ARV dream
Michelle: Do you believe in UFO’s or aliens that have come to study where we used our dreams for ARV, and Dale was
visit us? one of the dreamers, and we’re done with it, and it’s been
written up. We’ll be submitting that somewhere pretty soon,
Russell: I have no experience with UFO’s. I believe in survival. I and we ended up not having quite enough trials to be able
think the evidence that some aspect of a human’s personality to determine statistical significance. We were only wagering
survived is correct, but I don’t know anything about UFO’s. $100 at a time, but we did end up yielding $500. We definitely
I’ve just seen Steven Greer’s film, Unacknowledged, the two- had some success and it was so fun. Michelle had some great
hour film on UFO’s, and I know that he’s devoted his life to it. dreams, and I had a couple. Dale Graff, you know, he’s just the
But, UFO’s are much more elusive than ESP. Because there is master at dreaming photos. He’ll see in the future and he’s
always a trickster element in the UFO’s. You can never say, “I’m actually a pretty good artist.
absolutely certain that this is true because I was there and I
did it”. See, that’s why, when I tell you that I drew a picture of Michelle: My next venture now, and my new obsession,
where Hal was, there’s no doubt that that happened. Nobody besides remote viewing, is dream share. To set an intention to
could trick me. share a dream with somebody, which, of course, Debra, you
and I by accident had that happen.
Michelle: Right, because you were talking about telepathy
and because I know they talk about these trans-dimensional Russell: There’s a lot of data about twins sharing dreams.
beings that can kind of drift in and drift out, and also talk in Larry Dorsey can tell you about that.
your mind. I guess it’s true you can’t for sure know if it’s your
imagination. Debra: Oh great. I think he might be coming to an upcoming
conference.
Russell: I have no experience with that. Like Alice in
Wonderland, I can only believe one impossible thing at a time. Russell: Because Larry’s a twin and has experiences like that
(Laughter) with his brother.

Debra: And if anyone wants to see your film, what’s happening Debra: Yeah, I have a twin sister too. That’s how I got interested
with it? Is it completely done now? in all this stuff. Because we definitely had dreams like that. But
Michelle, tell Russ about your dream, with me in it. You had
Russell: Yes it’s completely done, and we’re looking for that dream as part of our dream study where, didn’t you say
distribution. that you were dreaming about doing a remote viewing session
and then I walked up and I pointed to an aspect - I think it was
Debra: Oh that’s great. Michelle, do you have any final like a railing - in the dream.
questions?
Michelle: It was like a cruise ship or something -
Russell: I can tell you this: the CIA liked Hal a lot better than
they liked me, and we reveal a little of that in the film, because Debra: There was a part that had railings on it and I told you
the CIA was worried that I was too enthusiastic and they to sketch that, I told you what to sketch in the dream and
thought that was a bad thing. then it turned out that what I told you, that was the matching
element that matched the picture, and helped us get a hit for
Debra: Too enthusiastic in general, or too enthusiastic about - that trial. So I thought that was pretty cool.

Russell: About ESP. They thought I was a believer. Russell: That’s interesting. I would say if you want to dream
about things you want to see the next day, start with movies.
Debra: Oh no. Not a believer. Because they found that movies are better than pictures.
I have an interesting remote viewing object that you can
Russell: And of course you’ve got to be a believer to make it describe right now. Something that’s describable. Interesting
work. You can’t do 10 years of remote viewing interviews if object.
you’re not a believer. They wouldn’t be able to do that.
Debra: Okay let’s try it. Do you have it with you right now? Debra: And there may be even, is it possible that there is two
of them?
Russell: Yes.
Russell: Come on! you know what it is, why don’t you just tell
Debra: Okay. Michelle are you ready? me?

Michelle: What are we doing? Debra: I’m not really sure, I did just get an oval shape, but um -

Debra: You and me are going to tune into whatever object Michelle: Just say it!
Russell has right now. Let’s do it. (Editors note: for this interview
they are all at their own homes, talking via telephone with no Debra: Is there a reason you would put it up to your face?
visuals).
Russell: Yes.
Michelle: Okay.
Debra: You know, I don’t know, I’m just seeing the impressions.
Debra: Might need a minute. Hang on, (Laughter). Okay, let me see a clue that will really help -

Michelle: Okay, I’m getting something that’s narrow on one Russell: Why don’t you just visualize -
side and wider on the other. And something that’s wrapped
around. Repeatedly wrapped Debra: Okay, let me visualize it. If I was going to sketch it, it
around. almost kind of reminds me like
a heart shape, where it would
Debra: I think I’m getting be kind of roundish like two
something that’s kind of parts, you know, a heart shape
something like, it may be a pale where its kind of roundish on
yellow color. Not bright, but a the top, a kind of oval.
pale yellow or beige.
Russell: What you’re looking
Russell: That’s the color. at right now is kind of heart
shaped.
Michelle: Oooh!
Debra: Okay, and tapered at
Debra: Let me try to tune into it the bottom. Is there anything,
a little more. And it seems like - should I keep going?
can you kind of pull it apart? It
seems like it may be where I’m Michelle: Is it like a coil? Or a
seeing a hand motion of kind cone shape? Or something like
of stretching something out, that.
something kind of stretchy.
Debra: It seems like it’s pliable
Russell: Yes. This target is kind of and are you holding it in your
stretchy. hand right now?

Michelle: Like a spring? Russell: Yes.

Debra: Does it kind of hang down a bit? It seems like you could Debra: Yeah. I’m getting the sense of seeing your hand with
. it, could there be a piece of metal on it? Like a little chain or
something?
Russell: Okay, you are seeing the target. Why don’t you draw
what you’re seeing, because you’re describing the target. This Russell: I’m going to have to go because my object wants to
is a kind of stretchy beige target that hangs down. go outside.

Debra: Okay let me see if I can draw that shape. Michelle: Your cat!

Russell: Just draw what you said; you’ve got a stretchy beige (Laughter)
object that kind of hangs down. That’s it.
Russell: Large, tan, Siamese cat.
Debra: Does it make some kind of sound?
Michelle: Oh, that is so cute, I love it!
Russell: Yes it does make a sound.

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:18

Russell: Hold on, please. help sketch it.

Debra: I didn’t see a cat, though. I mean, I wasn’t really seeing Russell: I thought you were in a workshop of mine at the
it. Omega Centre.

Michelle: No, not at all! Debra: No, no. It was actually with Marty. It was the very first
workshop I had ever gone to. I remember it was you, and there
Russell: Zeno’s a 20lb Siamese cat, mainly tan, and he’s been were nine guys and myself and I was shocked that usually, you
with me this whole time and has decided, enough of that. I go to something psychic-related and it’s all women.
want to get out of here.
Russell: Yeah, I remember asking you to draw something, but
Debra: So that’s funny, because we were talking about your I had a sort of memory that you were in a class with me, but
cat before we got on the phone with you, too. 20lbs - that’s it wasn’t my class.
a huge cat.
Debra: Yeah, it was Marty’s workshop and you asked me to
Michelle: That’s a big baby. draw a cat, and here was the thing: the target turned out to be
a cat. And then my husband called and said at that moment
Debra: You mentioned that you had done an object test like - about 7 or 8 cats, (black cats), had run into our house and
this with Art Bell and George Noory. How did they do? were running all over the house and he caught some of them,
but they were feral. And so I got this phone call that cats were
Russell: I was viewing for them.
running all over my house right after you had asked me to
Debra: Oh, you were viewing for them. And how did you do sketch a cat that turned out to be the remote viewing target.
for them?
Russell: Oh! That’s amazing.
Russell: I did just fine. I was reading the Times this morning
Debra: Yeah! What are the chances of that? Very bizarre.
about a woman in England who had rescued a little dog
because the dog needed rescuing, and the dog just was not Russell: Part of living in a psychic bubble.
well-behaved. It was the only really misbehaving dog in all of
Germany, and she said whenever she would take it out, people Michelle: Yeah! You’ve got to live with it. You’ve just got to
would say the nastiest things about the dog. But, her husband accept it. It is what it is.
was ill and then the dog was a wonderful healer. It would just
sit with him and was friendly and was totally attentive to her Russell: Well, enjoy it. I’ve had a fortunate life, so I’m very
husband through his whole-long illness. And I read that story happy to be a part of this.
and Zeno came and found me and sort of crawled up on my
chest and wanted to rub noses, and I thought that was such an Debra: Yeah. It’s things like that where it just defies such
appropriate thing for him to do after I had just read this article explanation of how these things can come about, and that’s
about an affectionate animal. where the miracle of life really hits you. This life is pretty
awesome!
Debra: That is so sweet! It sounds like Zeno might be intuitive.
Russell: And it’s a miracle in which we do not yet understand.
Russell: Yeah, Zeno is very intuitive. I have a number of stories
like that where he does just the right thing, appropriate to Debra: I guess I go back and forth thinking, “Do we need to
what I had been doing. understand it? Does that take away the specialness if we did?”

Debra: Very cool. Michelle: No, we have to. We have to understand it.

Russell: I had a different name for him when we had got him, Russell: As soon as we understand it, there’s going to be
except I had realized he was then much more. I had given something new to understand.
him Serena or some other peaceful name and eventually we
got him home, and I realized he was much too intelligent for Michelle: Yeah, there’s more after that. It’s infinite.
that, so we should name him Zeno after a very smart Greek
Russell: It’s the idea that your awareness is limitless. I wrote a
Philosopher. It’d be insulting to call him “Fluffy”.
book called Limitless Mind. You’re awareness is spacious. The
Debra: That’s too funny! Well, I was telling Michelle about whole Dzogchen teaching in Buddhism is about your spacious
the first time I met you was at one of Marty Rosenblatt’s ARV nature.
workshops for the weekend, and you had asked me to sketch
Michelle: Russ, what was the attitude when you grew up?
your cat or sketch a cat; because the target, if I remember
Your family, your parents; what was their attitude towards this
correctly, was of a cat, and for some reason you asked if I could

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:19

stuff? What made you be you from your basic childhood? Russell: Yeah I’ve talked to Melbourne Christopher and to
The Great Kreskin and they both said that basically you can
Russell: I was interested in magic and cards. I played cards supplement your act when ESP comes your way.
since I was an early teen, and I usually had very good card
sense about what to do. And I got involved with professional Debra: That is way too cool!
magicians when I moved to New York because you could meet
and talk with magicians at professional magic stores. I did that Russell: I have to go now. I’m going to lose my voice. I’m very
as a young teenager and then I used to do magic shows. happy to chat with you about my favorite subject. Nothing I’d
rather do.
Michelle: How did your parents feel about it?

Russell: Very supportive. My father was interested in the

science fiction. He was a book publisher and he used to bring
me books about magic. He took me to see Blackstone when I
was a young kid, the great magician. So I made the transition
in high school. See, I was about 14 and Robert Rosenthal,
who was a classmate of mine, a year ahead of me, came into
my biology class with a deck of ESP cards, and had us just
guessing the cards for a classroom experiment. And that made
me totally give up magic and get interested in the real thing!
So by the time I was out of high school, I wasn’t doing magic
anymore; I was reading ESP journals.

Debra: And would you say that your earlier experience with
magic, would you say that helped you as a researcher?

Russell: Oh definitely. First of all, it made me resistant to

being fooled by tricky people, and be aware of them. Made TO LISTEN TO THE AUDIO VERSION OF THIS INTERVIEW – TUNE
me vigilant of not being deceived. Because it made me INTO: www.psichicks.com
understand how easy it is to fool people. I was a pretty good
magician and it’s shocking how easy it is to fool people. I had
experience, you see; standing on the stage pretending to read
Russell Targ
somebody’s mind, but I had already read the card they put
in the fishbowl. So I would know what their question was. is a physicist and author who was a pioneer in the development
However, I would have the experience of knowing stuff about of the laser, and co-founder of the Stanford Research Institute’s
the person beyond what was in the fish bowl. So I was aware investigation into psychic abilities in the 1970s and 1980s.
as a teenage magician that I was getting to supplement my
tricks with whatever ESP came my way. He most recently authored The Reality of ESP: A Physicist’s
Proof of Psychic Abilities; Limitless Mind: A Guide to Remote
Debra: That really answers the question I have of so many Viewing and Transformation of Consciousness; and Do You
magicians and mentalists for so long. Is there an aspect of Psi See What I See? Memoirs of a Blind Biker: Lasers and Love,
and how aware of it are they? ESP and the CIA, and the Meaning of Life. He is co-author
of Mind Reach: Scientists Look at Psychic Abilities; The Mind
Russell: Well, if you’re a professional magician, you wouldn’t
Race: Understanding and Using Psychic Abilities; Miracles of
base your act on any ESP because it’s too unreliable. But
Mind: Remote Viewing and Spiritual Healing; The Heart of the
certainly, if you get a flash, you can supplement your act with
Mind: How to Experience God Without Belief; and The End of
a little ESP.
Suffering: Fearless Living in Troubled Times.
Debra: And do you think that happens a lot?
His full length feature film, “Third Eye Spies”, was released in
Russell: Yes, if you’re in a Psi-receptive mood. I mean, you’re 2019. The film’s tag line is: “For more than 20 years the CIA
standing out on the stage with your eyes closed, and what used psychic abilities operationally in a top secret spy program.
you’re actually doing is trying to remember what was on the You paid for it, and now you deserve to know about it”. Check
piece of paper that you read, but you’re then open to whatever out the fan page for further details https://thirdeyespies.com.
other information comes your way.
His banned Ted Talk now has over 2.8 million views on YouTube
Debra: Yeah, so you’re in the perfect state for something to – help him to reach 3 million!
happen. And have you talked to other magicians?
https://youtu.be/hBl0cwyn5GY

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:20

Debra Lynne Katz

is a long-time and highly trained remote viewer, psi researcher,

psi research subject, professional clairvoyant, and founder
and director of the International School of Clairvoyance (ISC).
She is an author of “You Are Psychic: The Art of Clairvoyant
Reading and Healing”; “Extraordinary Psychic”; and “Freeing
the Genie Within”. She is a former Federal Probation officer
and legal victim advocate and director of programs for
adults with developmental disabilities. She holds a Master’s
Degree in Social Work and is currently finishing up a Ph.D in
Psychology from the University of West Georgia where she’s
been cataloguing and studying the Ingo Swann Archives. She
is a former TV show host of “The Psychic Explorer”, and future
co-host of “Psi Chicks” Radio Show.

Her website is: www.Debrakatz.com

Michelle Freed-Bulgatz

is a remote viewer, remote viewing instructor, NGI board

certified consulting hypnotherapist, psi researcher and the
producer for “Midnight in the Desert” Radio Show. Michelle
has been directing musical theatre and teaching classes for all
ages for over 20 years. She is also a mother of 3 teenagers.
She is also the future co-host of “Psi Chicks” Radio Show.

Her website is: www.michellebulgatz.com

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:21

 REMOTE VIEWING THE
FIFA 2018 WORLD CUP
AN EXPERIMENT IN USING ASSOCIATIVE REMOTE VIEWING (ARV)
TO SUCCESSFULLY PREDICT A GLOBAL EVENT 2 MONTHS INTO THE FUTURE.

By Tunde Atunrase

I’ll start off this report with a brief definition of ARV for those I must admit I have never been a fan of ARV (Associative Remote
not familiar with this term. According to former ex-military Viewing) because of the dreaded displacement problem which
intelligence remote viewer Paul Smith Ph.D: has been a thorn in the side of ARV practitioners for decades.
(Displacement is essentially when a remote viewer provides an
“Associative Remote Viewing, or ARV, is a way of using accurate description of one of the feedback photos in a target
remote viewing to obtain a certain kind of information set, which description also collectively comprises aspects
about the future. Any workable method of remote from other feedback photos). However, I decided to give it an
viewing can be used for an ARV project. extended trial again in 2017. I practiced various techniques
and methods and performed a ton of practice sessions all in
You can think of the function of ARV as a way of “sending preparation for the biggest prediction of all from a football
back” information from the future. The purpose of ARV fan’s perspective – The FIFA World Cup which was to be held
is to help make decisions in the present about a future in Russia in 2018.
outcome or event.
Early results looked very promising and challenging at the same
Usually a binary-outcome event is involved. An example time. but I stuck with it, improved my self-judging analysis and
of a binary-outcome event would be a football game, even embarked on trial projects with fellow viewers using
where either one team will win, or the other will”1 different blind protocols and techniques.

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:22

In the end, I settled for a self-judging method where I would do favourites Brazil, Belgium, Germany and even England.
my ARV sessions while being blind to the target photos which However the remote viewers had other ideas, as we will soon
had already been selected by someone else. I also chose to find out.
analyse my session results before the World Cup even began.
The RV strategy seemed easy enough but I was puzzled as to
I started to notice a few things which I will try to summarise why no one else was doing this, or if they were, I hadn’t heard
at the end of the report. Please note this is NOT a scientific of any successful attempts using the pool approach. It was
experiment of any kind, just a simple ARV trial for the purposes a long shot and I knew there was always the risk the whole
of study and primarily for fun, hopefully winning some money thing could become a displacement nightmare. But in the end
in the process. the idea gradually grew on me and I started to get excited
by the prospect of just doing FIVE simple ARV sessions and
potentially ending up with a World Cup winner!

THE PROTOCOL
For this event I wanted to try something different. I knew the THE PHOTO PAIRS
Word Cup would contain 32 teams and I thought of the best
way to pick out a winner without doing dozens of sessions or The next major hurdle was getting five pairs of feedback photos
resorting to other predictive tools. In the end I picked ARV to use for the project. I needed someone with a high degree of
and decided to divide the 32 teams into TWO seperate pools expertise in selecting quality photos for use in ARV. I contacted
labelled POOL 1 and POOL 2 - This system will ultimately be Daz Smith, an excellent CRVer with years of experience, and
called Primary Pool RV© or PPRV© he graciously provided five pairs of feedback photos with my
specific instructions to place them into ZIP files so I would not
The order was picked from the official World Cup webpage. I see the photos until I was ready to open them AFTER I had
simply copied the names of the teams listed and placed them done my viewing. With the photos selected and labelled by
in the two pools seen in the table below: Daz (photos P1, P2, P3 to P10), I was now ready to move onto
the next phase.
Pool 1: Pool 2:

EGYPT BRAZIL
RUSSIA COSTA RICA THE TARGET
SAUDI ARABIA SWITZERLAND Given my several months of RV practice and knowledge of
URUGUAY SERBIA ARV, I decided on setting up the session cues in a very specific
IRAN GERMANY way. Below is the RV template for the first target which would
MOROCCO SOUTH KOREA become the basic template for all five sessions leading up to
the final session:
PORTUGAL MEXICO
SPAIN SWEDEN
AUSTRALIA BELGIUM
DENMARK ENGLAND MAY 0705
FRANCE PANAMA DESCRIBE THE TARGET ASSOCIATED WITH THE OBSERVED
PERU TUNISIA AND MOST PROBABLE OUTRIGHT WINNER OF THE 2018 FIFA
ARGENTINA COLUMBIA WORLD CUP FINAL
CROATIA JAPAN
STARTS AT 16:00, PLAYED ON JULY 15th 2018 Sunday.
ICELAND POLAND LOCATION - Luzhniki Stadium, Moscow Russia
NIGERIA SENEGAL
IF OUTRIGHT WINNING TEAM IS IN POOL 1
The aim was for me to set up a target that would determine DESCRIBE PHOTO P1 ONLY
which pool the winning team would eventually come from
two months into the future. Once the first ARV session was IF OUTRIGHT WINNING TEAM IS IN POOL 2
completed I would repeat the process again dividing the DESCRIBE PHOTO P2 ONLY
POOL into two separate groups until eventually after FIVE ARV
sessions, I would be left with just ONE potential winner. (I WILL EASILY AND ACCURATELY OBSERVE AND RELAY THE
MOST PROBABLE WINNING ASSOCIATED TARGET PHOTO TO
On paper I was 100% convinced POOL 2 would be the pool MYSELF AT THE TIME OF THE REMOTE VIEWING)
to look out for. It had the strongest teams such as red hot

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:23

THE REMOTE VIEWING advance??? I’m not a statistician but I’m sure the odds would
have been quite high indeed.
I did the first session target ID MAY 0705 with some degree
of apprehension. What if I got the first target wrong? What Other viewers soon stepped in and I was hoping they too
if I displaced to the WRONG pool? All my data would be for would match the same results Elisa and I produced and reach
nothing including all the subsequent RV sessions. I knew I had the same conclusion.
to focus ALL my intent on nothing but the target and hoped I
The other viewers were Daz Smith, Jon Knowles and Glyn
would be right come Sunday July 15th.
Carr. I’ve worked with all three for many years on and off so
The first session was hard to judge. Both photos had some their experience came in handy. After the completion of five
elements of data although one had more than the other. In sessions (Daz was tasked with different photo pairs by myself
the end, I settled for the Tsunami photo using all my previous as he would not have been allowed to view the same photo
exposure to self-judging and analysis to help make that crucial pairs that he had selected for my project), here are the teams
decision. Remember, if the FIRST session is a MISS, the whole the viewers picked:
project collapses.
Daz Smith – RUSSIA
I continued the process over the period of a week and
Jon Knowles – URUGUAY
completed my sessions with the final Target MAY 1105.
Glyn Carr – SPAIN
One thing I noticed very quickly was that despite the sheer
determination NOT to displace to another feedback photo,
there were still instances where some elements of BOTH
photos would turn up in the data. The dreaded displacement What was remarkable about all five participants, including
factor had reared its head once again. However this time myself, was that we ALL picked feedback photos for POOL 1!
I was prepared. I knew what to look out for and picked the
photo with the strongest ‘basic gestalts’ that matched my That was a HUGE development in my opinion because I knew
data but not necessarily the most obvious or high level data right there and then that there would be a strong possibility
descriptions. the winning team would come from POOL 1, even if France did
not win it. What’s even more remarkable was that CROATIA
However, my final target and session, MAY 1105 came as a would meet FRANCE in the final. And Croatia was in POOL 1!!!
complete surprise and shock due to the clarity of the data
produced. But I was even more stunned at the eventual team You can imagine the nervousness this caused for us as the
that the photo represented. To say I was excited by the final tournament progressed. We kept the information to ourselves
choice would be an understatement. Was this possible? Did I and used the data to place wagers on various online betting
just predict that FRANCE would win the World Cup? sites. Everyone placed a wager on France to win the world
cup as well as their individual teams they picked. What is also
I desperately needed a second opinion. I was afraid I was interesting is that teams like Russia were totally written off
simply deluding myself all along and tried to keep myself from before the start of the tournament yet went on to reach the
believing the data until I got some sort of consensus from later stages.
another viewer. Luckily I didn’t have long to wait.
Russia went out cruelly on penalties to Croatia but it could
The call went out for other viewers to take part in my little easily have gone the other way so who’s to say they might
experiment and use the exact same process, targets and not have reached the final? This leads me to believe in the
where possible the same feedback photos I had been given possibility of ‘probable outcomes’, hence the need for exact
by Daz Smith. and precise wording with the tasking. I suspect all probabilities
exist in the future with some probable events more likely to
The first person to heed the call was Elisa Lagana. A talented occur than others. Which probable event we end up observing
psychic and remote viewer in her own right. I wondered how depends on the remote viewer and their ability to home in on
she would fare on a project like this. Immediately she jumped that event. This is extremely difficult to achieve 100% of the
at the chance to participate and within a space of a week, she time due to all kinds of factors but more so for remote viewing
had completed all five sessions. Some of her remote viewing using ARV because of the displacement factor, as well as the
also suffered the displacement problem but she still produced fact that no one really knows how RV works.
some remarkable stunning remote viewing. The biggest
surprise of all….she had picked FRANCE to win as well!!!! One of the issues we noticed was the type of photos used
during other ARV targets for separate games we ran during
What were the odds of not one, but TWO remote viewers the World Cup, but not part of the main project. Games
picking the exact same team, using the exact same targets including the quarter and semi-finals. We used a new set of
and photos for an event that was yet to start 2 months in

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:24

photo pairs for these games and produced some very accurate WHAT WE LEARNED FROM THE WORLD
displacement sessions. Some of the photo pairs had extreme CUP
differences in entropy between them and I believe this was
the root cause for displacement. As a result we really need • Practice, Practice, Practice! Learn how to describe
to look into what is the best use or way forward for selecting the target in detail with just a few pages. Pay attention
good reliable ARV photo pairs. to low level gestalts over high data descriptors in your
session. Show coherent and detailed data in your final
summary report to help your analyst or during self
judging.
THE FINAL FEEDBACK
• Pick your ARV photo pairs with great caution and care.
FRANCE would end up winning the tournament just as Elisa Photos should have an even balance of entropy within
and I had predicted months in advance, beating Croatia (a them. Not too high and not too low but also remain
POOL1 Team) 4-2 in a fierecely contested game which saw completely different from one another. For example
France take the lead initially and looking the stronger team. We do NOT use photos that have a space shuttle rocket
were all ecstatic and elated. We all won substantial amounts launch against a photo of flower in a green field. NEVER
of money based on our early bets and taking advantage of the use photo-shopped images under any circumstances.
high odds before the World Cup began. Try to use live, real-world images. Do not use photos
of animals unless you know your viewers are good at
Another bonus, at least for myself, was because I had reliable
describing different types of lifeforms.
RV information that France would most likely win the WC, it
gave me the confidence to wager and ultimately win every • POOL based ARV works!!! Try it. Modify it to suit your
qualifying game France played in the tournament right up to events, forecasts or targets. Prepare the pool carefully
the final itself. in advance if you are a tasking and ensure everything is
as clear as possible.
We had beaten the football experts and city wiz kids who
produced all kinds of sophisticated algorithms and statistics • Use ONLY experienced, confident, trusted and reliable
to predict the winner and we did it using nothing but pure psi viewers/psychics for your ARV projects and ensure they
and a simple ARV process. I see no reason why this cannot be are fully committed to the project just as you are (the
replicated for future projects. tasker/project manager)
We managed to replicate the success of the World Cup • In my experience, it makes no difference if the viewer
producing excellent predictions months in advance such as: never sees one of the other photos – displacement still
occurs (see comments on Photo Pairs above). Likewise,
• The 2019 NFL Super Bowl finalists (LA RAMS reaching
keeping the ARV tasks separate (analyst, tasker and
the Super Bowl – this project was started BEFORE the
viewer, etc) does not guarantee a displacement-free
season even begun!!!
ARV result.
• NFL Super Bowl winner plus UNDER score prediction.
• Self Judging Works! The myth that viewers cannot be
• 2019 UEFA Champions League Finalists and winner trusted to judge their own sessions is just not true. ALL
– probably our best and most outrageous prediction viewers in this project judged their own work.
to date accurately predicting months in advance
• Take responsibility for failure and learn from it.
both LIVERPOOL and TOTTENAM would reach the
It’s easy to get discouraged after a miss but use that
final despite incredible odds against them and the
disappointment to increase your intent, focus and
unbelievable way they did it.
determination to do better.
• UEFA Europa League Cup final Chelsea to beat Arsenal.
• Do not be concerned about whether you miss or hit
• 2019 Eurovision Song Contest – won by the the target. Absolutely 100% focus on the moment you
Netherlands get your feedback. Experience the feedback event,
observe every detail and try imagining sending the
If remote viewers can succeed in predicting global most important part, feature or description of each
events 6 to 12 months into the future on a relatively target photo back to your conscious self during every
consistent basis, the benefits of such an achievement session you do.
will be extraordinary to say the least.
• If you are an ARV project Tasker/Analyst/Manager,
know your viewers’ weaknesses and strengths.
Encourage positivity and keep it fun!

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:25

 • Encourage confidentiality. Unless you are in the Pool 3: Pool 4:
business of selling predictions, try not to brag about
your prediction until AFTER the event. Believe it or not
some people would love to see you fail or miss and EGYPT AUSTRALIA
the effects of this can be quite demoralizing for some RUSSIA DENMARK
viewers. SAUDI ARABIA FRANCE
URUGUAY PERU
• Don’t gamble more than you can afford to. Placing
IRAN ARGENTINA
large sums of money you can’t afford only increases the
emotional risk of making bad choices or no choice at all MOROCCO CROATIA
in some cases. Keep it fun. PORTUGAL ICELAND
SPAIN NIGERIA
• Don’t guess or encourage frontloading. It’s okay to
know you are viewing an event but you should always
remain blind to the target photos before doing your
session ALWAYS. 2 viewers picked the winning POOL 4

Photo 4 (Jupiter)

The ARV Pools

Pool 1: Pool 2:

EGYPT BRAZIL
RUSSIA COSTA RICA
SAUDI ARABIA SWITZERLAND
URUGUAY SERBIA
IRAN GERMANY
MOROCCO SOUTH KOREA
PORTUGAL MEXICO Pool 5: Pool 6:
SPAIN SWEDEN
AUSTRALIA BELGIUM AUSTRALIA ARGENTINA
DENMARK ENGLAND DENMARK CROATIA
FRANCE PANAMA FRANCE ICELAND
PERU TUNISIA PERU NIGERIA
ARGENTINA COLUMBIA
CROATIA JAPAN 2 viewers picked the winning POOL 5
ICELAND POLAND
NIGERIA SENEGAL Photo 5 (The Great Pyramid of Giza)

All FIVE viewers successfully picked the first winning POOL 1.

*2 viewers picked POOL 1 using a different set of photos.

Photo 1 100% (Tsunami)

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:26

 Pool 7: Pool 8: Pool 9: Pool 10:

AUSTRALIA FRANCE FRANCE PERU

DENMARK PERU
2 out of 5 viewers correctly picked FRANCE from the winning
POOL 9
2 viewers picked the winning POOL 8
Photo 9 (Volcano)
Photo 8 (Statue of Liberty)

FINAL FEEDBACK OBSERVED:

On the 15 July 2018, France beat Croatia 4 – 2 in the final of the FIFA 2018 Word Cup in Moscow Russia.

Notes: 1 Paul Smith PhD - https://rviewer.com/associative-remote-viewing-arv/

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:27

 Tunde Atunrase has been Remote Viewing for over 16
years and has been a full TDS trained student of Pru
Calabrese since 2002.

He has practiced and worked for various RV groups

over the years. His book is titled “Remote Viewing :
The Visitors” Tunde lives and works in London.

E: [email protected]

t un ra s e
Tunde A

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:28

 IN THE ARCHIVES OF A
MANY-SIDED MAN
- INGO SWANN, THE ‘FATHER OF REMOTE VIEWING’

By Jon Knowles & Debra Lynne Katz

Housed in the Ingram Library at the University of West Georgia One of the longer ones has just been issued as a book titled:
in Carrollton is a vast collection (187 boxes) of Ingo Swann’s Psychic Literacy and the Coming Psychic Renaissance, with
correspondence, manuscripts, art collection, audios, videos, introductions by well-known authors Colin Wilson and Dean
photographs, press clippings and much more. Radin. To hear the inside scoop on this book check out an
interview with UWG’s assistant archivist, Brian Lord here:
The Estate of Ingo Swann and the UWG archivist, Blynne https://runesoup.com/2019/05/talking-ingo-swann-with-
Olivieri, encourage researchers to visit these valuable archives. brian-lord/

Debra Katz and I spent many days in the archives. Debra The remaining manuscripts range from short stories to drafts
Katz is pursuing her Ph.D in Psychology at UWG, and I on a variety of subjects. Titles include: The Truth Seeker
spent two weeks in the archives typing catalogue notes (1956); Human Psychic Abilities (1978); Subtle and Hidden
for Ingo’s extensive correspondence. We both found this Factors Regarding the UFO-ET Situation (1999); 2000 Years
a very rewarding experience. Ingo Swann was a man of of My Reincarnations; Agony and Ecstasy of the Signs of the
prodigious energy, intense intellectual curiosity, great talent Zodiac; Anacalypsis: A Psychic autobiography; The Emerald
in art and “perception” (psi), a meticulous record-keeper, an Kingdom; and The Mongolian Prophecies.
extraordinary artist, and ... more.”
Pieces like Anacalypsis: A Psychic Autobiography (60 pages)
While Debra and I already had a sense of Ingo the person and The Emerald Kingdom (81 pages) appear to have provided
from his writings and videos of his presentations, there is material for Psychic Literacy.
nothing like spending time amid all his works, including
correspondence, to get a better sense of what an unusual Meanwhile, according to recent correspondence we had with
person he was, his lengthy ventures into numerous fields, and Ingo’s family, Journalist and author Nick Cook is editing a “lost
his considerable accomplishments. manuscript”. This will be combined with the Emerald Kingdom
into one book. Although both manuscripts seem to have
As samples of what’s in the archives…Ingo left a number of been written at the same time as Psychic Literacy, and touch
manuscripts which were not published during his lifetime. upon a few of the same topics as Psychic Literacy, they are

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:29

presented in a different way. The book is said to contain many him. Valentino must have been the rage even in the 1960’s
extraordinary insights into Ingo’s views on life, death, purpose in New York City because Ingo admits he knew of eight other
and the nature of consciousness. people who claimed to be a reincarnation of the Hollywood
heart-throb!
It is not well known that Ingo spent many years (he says 30+)
studying astrology, nor that he wrote a 198-page manuscript Given the wide interest in Ingo’s published book Penetration,
on the subject. The draft (Agony and Ecstasy) contains a lot which contains incidents involving his experience of a UFO and
more on astrology than the recently published Psychic Literacy. alien creatures, his draft Subtle and Hidden Factors Regarding
He had many birth charts of the famous (and not-famous): e.g. the UFO-ET Situation (c. 80 pages) is a bit of a let down
Aleister Crowley, Deepak Chopra, J. Edgar Hoover, Bill Gates, because he does not relate further personal experiences
Van Gogh, Picasso and with UFO’s. But he does
Edgar Mitchell. offer considerations and
speculations about our
Further, Ingo felt that “Earthside” perspectives in
knowledge of astrology relation to what the UFO-
was a vital complement to ETs are likely to be -- what
remote viewing. Someone they think and do, their
once wrote to him out of likely frames of reference
the blue about the murder and ours. The material
of his brother. Ingo wrote is quite thoughtful with
back, offered to help and provocative sections like:
right away wanted to “DELETING THE EARTHSIDE
know the brother’s time CONCEPT THAT SENSE
of birth and then had the ORGANS ARE ABSOLUTELY
astrological chart made. NECESSARY WITH REGARD
Ingo followed up by TO ALL POSSIBLE KINDS OF
corresponding about the INFORMATION IN-TAKE”.
case, using his perceptual
abilities (psi) and his There are additional
version of astrology to manuscripts which we have
deliver conclusions to the not had a chance to look
surviving brother about into: Psychic Activities for
what had happened. the New Age; Our Psychic
Energies; The Psychic Child;
Another subject which Panoramic Consciousness;
Ingo investigated was The Magnification of Self;
reincarnation. The Hidden Greatness of
Human Consciousness;
He claims in the Flying Saucer One - Novel
Reincarnation manuscript Drafts. Good reason to
that it is really a question return to the archives!
of memory. He cites and
recommends the book by In addition to the
George Johnson, In the manuscripts there are
Palaces of Memory: How many documents about
We Build the Worlds Inside the development of
Our Heads. Amazingly, Ingo Controlled Remote Viewing
claimed to have traced his own reincarnations back 2000 (of which he was the primary developer), including reports to
years. However, he covers only one of these in detail in his and correspondence with Hal Puthoff and Ed May at SRI. Of
84-page draft, 2000 Years of My Reincarnations: A Test in Past- great value to CRV enthusiasts are the early remote viewing
Life Memory. transcripts of his original students (Bill Ray, Paul Smith, Ed
Dames, etc.) along with the detailed notes Ingo demanded
Who do you think Ingo believed he was in his most recent his students take regarding every aspect of his stage-based
previous life? It was…Rudolph Valentino! Ingo offers the training. While Ingo didn’t write up his own training manual,
indicators of this identification, including odd aversions he had these notes were written from a variety of perspectives and
that related to Valentino’s life and most importantly, a serious approved by Ingo before being stored into his files and offer
stomach condition which was the decisive factor convincing insights into his teaching one may be hard pressed to find

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:30

elsewhere. There are also a few transcripts of lectures he gave And then there is the art collection which is housed in 58
to his students, such as one where he admonished them all for boxes containing the amalgamated collection of Raymond
failing to take breaks when they got stuck, or were struggling Piper with Ingo Swann. There are folders with art works
with analytic overlay or even when getting too emotionally and/or correspondence relating to numerous artists: L. F.
attached to something in a session. Bastien; Constantin Brancusi; Beniamino Bufano; Alexander
Calder; Marc Chagall; Salvador Dali; Max Ernst; Paul Gauguin;
Also in the files can be found exploratory pieces and copious Willy Jaeckel; C.G. Jung; Kandinsky; Leo Katz; Rockwell Kent;
data sheets of Ingo’s attempts to recognize letters, numbers, Jacques Lipchitz; Georgia O’Keefe; the psychic artist Pauline
symbols, shapes (work he called “Analytics”) along with Peavy; Picasso; Reva Remy; astrologer Dane Rudhyar; Blanding
reports to SRI about his Sloane; Faith Vilas and
efforts. Ingo wrote that literally hundreds more.
he would sometimes
do a few hundred Ingo also maintained
trials “before lunch” – a vast collections of
to give a sense of the newspaper clippings
great effort he put into and articles about
this. He also recorded other psychics and
in several places he also intuitive based
was discovering that organizations. These
with practice and offer rare glimpses
observation of what into society’s attitudes
was working and not surrounding these
working, “learning was topics, some of which
taking place.” reflected an openness
and enthusiasm, some
We came across several reflecting outright fear
real life search-based of what widespread
projects in various adaptation of intuitive
stages that Ingo had powers might mean for
been involved with that our future, particularly
could fall under the in the hands of a hostile
category of “field work”. foreign government.
Since these involved
private clients, not all The archives also
have been discussed demonstrate Ingo’s
elsewhere outside of fascination with
the archives. These precognition, as
included: Deep Quest; evidenced by his
The Alexandria Project; “prophecy project”.
the Ft Huachuca While he offered
Treasure Project; the his own predictions
Halbouty Oil Exploration via intuitive and
Project; the 1976 astrological methods,
Ghana Exploration; he also spent quite a
the 1976 Coppermine bit of time tracking the
River Exploration; the predictions of others.
1981-1985 Washburn Oil Exploration; the Robert Jones Buried These were then printed in his “prophecy project newsletter”.
Treasure Project; and the Ada Oil Company Sites. This is a project his family is carrying on through a newly
created website of the same name that can be accessed via
Ingo maintained correspondence (1975-2007) with many this link: http://theprophecyproject.com/
prominent and ordinary people, receiving up to 50 letters
some weeks. He was so sure his work would be in a university Another development, not announced elsewhere yet, is that
archive one day and so kept carbon copies of letters he sent! Ingo will not be alone for long in special collections at UWG.
These letters provide many insights into Ingo’s activities and Along with Bill Roll, (who was the first parapsychologist to
thinking, and the interest in and great respect people had for find a home there for his vast collection of papers, books, and
him and his work. audio tapes, many related to his highly publicized poltergeist
investigations) Ingo will be in good company with colleagues

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:31

such as Cleve Backster, Paula Roberts, Stephen Schwartz, and edu/uwg/view?docId=ead/MS-0060-ead.xml
Stanley Krippner, all whom have recently agreed to donate
their papers to the archives. Also, Ingo’s family have been hard at work republishing most
of his books, which are now available through Amazon. A
We hope this brief introduction to the archive has whetted the new edition of Penetration is also in the works. Check out
appetite of others like ourselves who have come to the library the recent interview Ingo’s niece, Elly Flippen, who lived
to learn more and spread the word about the multiple sides with him and acted as his assistant for many years, did with
of this very productive and very rare man. We guarantee you Blynne Olivieri and Tom McNear on March 17, 2019 at:
will find some surprises! You can read to your heart’s content, http://21stcenturyradio.com/audioarchives/2019/index.html.
scan documents, do research and enjoy Ingo’s art.

If you would like to visit the library, contact Blynne Olivieri at:
Ingo Swann image courtesy of the estate of Ingo Swann
https://www.westga.edu/library/special-collections/contact-
us.php The Valentino image is found on Wikipedia.

Ingo Swann papers. Special Collections, Irvine Sullivan Ingram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolph_Valentino

Library, University of West Georgia. http://uwg.galileo.usg.

Jon Knowles has been a remote viewer since 1999. He was Training Coor-
dinator with TransDimensional Systems (2000-2003), project manager and
admin with the Aurora Remote Viewing Group (2006-2010) and a group
manager and a staff member with Applied Precognition Project (2012-
2016). He is the author of Remote Viewing from the Ground Up (2017),
which focuses on TransDimensional Systems’ history and methods. TDS
was a successful early remote viewing company (1997-2003).

Web: 120+ (RV links) http://www.mprv.net/one20.html

Web Portal: https://jonknowles8.wixsite.com/mprv

Jon Knowles
Email: [email protected]

Debra Lynne Katz is a long time and highly trained remote viewer, psi
researcher, psi research subject, professional clairvoyant, and founder
and director of the International School of Clairvoyance (ISC).She is an
author of “You Are Psychic: The Art of Clairvoyant Reading and Healing”;
“Extraordinary Psychic”; and “Freeing the Genie Within”. She is a former
Federal Probation officer and legal victim advocate and director of
programs for adults with developmental disabilities. She holds a Master’s
Degree in Social Work and is currently finishing up a Ph.d in Psychology
from the University of West Georgia where she’s been cataloging and
studying the Ingo Swann Archives. She is a former TV show host of “The
Psychic Explorer”.

Her website is: www.Debrakatz.com

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:32

MIND TO MIND
WHAT PART DOES TELEPATHY PLAY WITHIN REMOTE
VIEWING?

By Daz Smith
Background
This article is the result of a talk at the IRVA 2017 online
conference between myself (Daz Smith), John Cook and For many years we have seen, read and heard about how the
Pam Coronado on the topic of the role of telepathy in Stargate unit got back at Tasker Ed Dames by tasking him with
Remote viewing. Santa Claus. The confusion Ed experienced when he did his
Santa Claus session involved repeatedly describing - in great
The core of this discussion was: can the beliefs or detail - a life in a flying vehicle that was zipping about, all over
intentions of a tasker, monitor and viewers significantly the place. This story always intrigued me because obviously
influence the result of an operational RV session even Santa Claus is not real. He is not a physical target. He is a
under blind conditions? In essence - What part does character in stories, myths and social construct.
telepathy play in RV?
Then many years later there was a very interesting and well
Researching far and wide for this talk, I collected constructed project from the Hawaii Remote Viewers Group
examples of RV sessions that seem to indicate that (HRVG) that added to my growing fascination about this
the connection and communication between Remote somewhat ignored component of Remote Viewing.
Viewing taskers and viewers may be more complex
and intimate than previously thought. These examples
generally include targets that do not physically exist,
and some ONLY exist in the mind of the tasker. Yet, The HRVG Tanner Dam Experiment
talented Remote Viewers can accurately describe these
targets in great detail, with no discernible difference In 2008 HRVG ran a blind Remote Viewing project involving
in the feel or the quality of the data in comparison to several Remote Viewing schools and methods. The Viewers
normal or actual physical targets. included: ERV (1person); CRV (2 people); SRV(1 person );
and HRVG (5 people). In total there were ten people in this
experiment - a unique event in Remote Viewing circles.

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:33

The experiment was a great success. All the Remote Viewers Dick also created sketches of the dam and hired an artist
described and sketched the target. The only problem was that to create a rendering based on his thoughts. (Fig 1. Artist
THE TARGET DID NOT ACTUALLY PHYSICALLY EXIST. rendering of Tanner Dam - below)

Dick Allgire created a place in his mind called TANNER DAM. He All the participating Remote Viewers in this experiment
spent many hours, days and months visualising and creating described a natural location, land/water interface, rocks and
this location in his mind. He thought about its location, the many other details. These details felt as real to the Viewers
environment, the local population, their activities and much as any other Remote Viewing session. None of the Viewers
more. reported any difference in the feeling or in the quality of the
data from this physically non-existent target. A few examples
of their data is presented below:

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:34

 For the next decade, this great project stayed in the back
of my mind. During this time I participated in thousands of
Remote Viewing projects, ops and practice sessions - but
that HRVG project was something that I just couldn’t shake
  and it was something that I felt was very important to try to
figure out. With this in mind, and for an IRVA presentation, I
finally decided to collate examples of this enigma and try an
experiment of my own.

Other possible Telepathy examples in RV

During and after the initial IRVA talk on this subject for the
2017 online conference, other project managers came forward
with other examples of Remote Viewers accurately reporting
on targets that did not physically exist.

Hydropolis Target from Pam Coronado

Pam Coronado gave this target to a beginning/intermediate
level Remote Viewing class in which students could use CRV
or free style RV methods. (At the time she was struggling with
confusion and neurological difficulties after being bitten by
a black widow spider.) Pam believed the target to be a real,
physical place because it came up on travel websites.

Only when she tried to locate the actual address of the target
for dowsing purposes did she realize that the target didn’t
exist, was never built, and that the photos were merely a
concept design. When she discovered this, she expected
that the session work would be mostly misses. Much to her
surprise however, students did seem to connect with the
conceptual target.

The Hydropolis Underwater Hotel and Resort was a proposed

underwater hotel in Dubai. Hydropolis is to be the first multi-
room underwater hotel in the world. It was planned in the
Persian Gulf of Dubai. Originally the hotel was planned to
be located 20 meters (66 ft) under water off the coast of
Jumeriah beach and cover an area of 260 hectares (640 acres),
which is equivalent in size to the area of Hyde Park in London.
The construction cost for Hydropolis was approximately €600
million Euro, which will make Hydropolis one of the most
expensive hotels ever created.

fig2: Hydropolis concept design

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Fig 3 & 4 - Hydropolis concept designs - detail.

Pam Coronado Student session examples

Below are some of the descriptions from the Remote Viewers
on the Hydropolis target:
fig 5 & 6 - session sketches from the Hydropolis Target.
JV - Body of water, fish, several biologicals. AOL: sports
stadium; As the data shows, it does not seem that the Remote Viewers
were hindered in any way by the fact that the target was not
TW - Splashing, fish, circular manmade shape next to water. real or physical. 
Pathway next to water, images looked cartooney or not real;

PS - Water, ocean, see sketch of interior;

The DNA idea
MA - Standing on a simple smooth stone in the middle of large
body of water. Another huge area, round shape with even In October 2015, Stewart Edwards wanted to find out if, under
edges, light in color. Sandpiper, crushed shells and a tea cup; blind conditions, it was possible for a Remote Viewer (Edward
Riordan) to not only perceive and describe an idea/invention
WG - Animal or life form, water, something jutting up. Land/ that existed in Stewart’s mind, but to also see whether there
water interface. was any way to protect his idea, his “intellectual property”.
If a person can “remote view” the creative ideas of another
person, are they in fact stealing that person’s vision?

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:36

Stewart describes: I could not tell during the experience that I was
perceiving something that only existed in the mind of
“As part of an online course on biochemistry with the Stewart.
University of Kyoto, Japan, “The Chemistry of Life”
KyotoUx-001x, in 2014, I (Stewart Edwards) submitted During the deep exploration and hit of the DNA target
a brief project which was ranked in the top 100 (out itself, I began to experience a separate element that
of 20,000). This project was a biochemistry adaption to appeared to be triggered by the actual attainment of
our DNA to help improve crime detection accuracy. the desired element, that being DNA. The separate
element was musical in nature and appeared to have
In essence: “Excluding identical twins, 1 in 3 million no relevance to what I had been experiencing prior
individuals have identical DNA. This means that in to it. I found this seemingly “outside” element to be
the UK I share my DNA with 20 other people. Globally interesting for approximately 2 minutes before making
2,386 people share your DNA. You could be imprisoned the decision to discard this element as a “distraction”.
because of this if you were at the wrong place at the
wrong time. By inserting a DNA marker, like a digital I later learned that this musical element was in fact the
fingerprint used by photographers, that is unique to “distraction” that Stewart has coded into his tasking in
you, you could largely eliminate the possibility of false his attempt to safeguard his own intellectual property.
conviction. Your children could have a suffix added to
this as in the name Howard-Carter II. Also default for So we return to the original questions, can a Remote
high security building access, banking, even contracts.” Viewer perceive and describe something that only
exists in the mind of another person and, even more
I initially researched and then formulated this project in my importantly, is there a way to protect one’s own ideas
mind before writing it up on the computer, printing it and and or visions from being accessed without their
emailing it. consent or knowledge? I will not be the one to give an
absolute answer to this dilemma, but it appears there
I set this target up in three stages: truly are no secrets anymore…”

(1) the basic targeting was simply “DNA” The videos for this project are available through these links:

(2) advanced targeting was the commercial application https://youtu.be/K8Dj-_I2Ti8

explained above
https://youtu.be/Ta_63KooyFw
(3) I set up a “distracter” to divert viewers from
accessing this target (details of how I did this are my https://youtu.be/16jMSWIYSwo
personal intellectual property).

In the context of targets formulated in people’s mind, I can

confirm that: (1) initially this target was formed in my mind, but Daz Smith - May 2017 experiment
at the time of tasking it was on paper, had been transmitted by
email, had been evaluated and selected by The University of In light of my interest in this enigma and the looming IRVA
Kyoto’s staff as a Top 100 submission. The target was an idea discussion on this topic, on 26 May, 2017 on my Remote
as opposed to a physical location or object. Viewing Facebook group that has over 3,600 members, I asked
if people would contribute RV sessions for a small experiment.
In my opinion Edward did a fantastic job in penetrating into I had ten people respond and send me their Remote Viewing
this target.” data.

Now, as with the Tanner Dam experiment from 2008, the

Hydroplois, and the DNA project, my target did NOT physically
Edward Riordan describes: exist. In fact, probably even to a lesser degree than the other
similar experiments because I didn’t even get an artist painting
“I, as the Remote Viewer, was completely blind to all or concept drawing made. That would have created a physical
tasking and communicated only via text messenger component which could be Remote Viewed. And we know
over the Internet. All of my work was done on dry erase that sometimes a Viewer can view their feedback. I also did
board and all was captured on video, 4 videos in total. not record anything in relation to the target in any physical
form. I wanted to formulate an experiment where the target
The “target” being DNA was perceived and described had no actual physical record, including having no physical
during these sessions, as was the “marker” element. feedback for the Remote Viewer to access.
The “marker” element being the purely idea-driven
invention aspect was perceived and explored, and My experimental target – which only existed in my mind, and

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:37

a brief description of which I typed into ’notepad’ on the P.C. The results:
(existing only as digital ones and zeros), was:
To a greater and lesser degree, almost ALL of the ten participants
described: energy, UFO/vehicle or similarly triangle/pyramid
shaped object. They very accurately described up and down
Target: 2605-8811 movement, a whooshing noise and even more descriptions
that accurately matched a target that only existed in my
I am going to create a fictional target in my mind and this text
imagination, and as zeros and ones in digital data.
pad only.
A few of the Remote Viewers’ sketches are shown below:
In the playing ’field’ near to my house a circular grassed/green
area with a cross-shaped path in the middle, plus a waste bin.
A UFO will land in the centre here, descending slowly from
the sky.

A pyramid shaped UFO of 30 ft in height - glowing blue from

the top. This will descend during a quiet day. It will leave a
burnt/black patch underneath it.

Out of this will come a 8ft tall very thin, long armed being,
who will communicate with me.

This being will be holding hands with a small, young girl

wearing a blue dress, and with long blonde hair - her name
is Goldilocks (from Goldilocks and Three Bears fame). She will
smile at me but say nothing.

After 10 minutes, they will get back on board and the object
will lift up. It will rise straight-up then will disappear in a flash
of white light. No noise will be made other than the whoosh
of air.

My intent for this target is for the viewers to ONLY describe

these fictional events that exist only in my mind and nothing
more.

The Data I expected to see in the Viewer’s data was:

• circle with cross

• grass/green
• pyramid shape
• UFO/vehicle
• colour blue
• very tall skinny man
• blonde girl wearing blue/goldilocks.
• burnt/black grass/grass
• moving upwards/downwards
• whoosh noise

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:38

 Other interesting parts in the Viewers’ data that fit with my
imagined target were:
Image - Credit: ESO/M. Kornmessera
1. the shape of the real location that I had imagined as
the setting for this fiction – a square field in the middle
of an oval shape of houses, with a cross-shaped path
which also shows up in the data;

2. one or more life forms;

3. very early on in Stage1, one of the Viewers picked

up an AOL of ’teddy bear’ - maybe a nod towards my
fictional Goldilocks character in my description of the
fictional event that I consciously added as a joke, but
also just to see if that obscure data could also be picked
up.

In this project, like the previous examples, the Remote Viewers

seemed to have no problem recording data that fits with the
target. Especially clear was the key component of the fictional
target - the pyramid shaped UFO/object. When asked, none of
the Viewers noticed any difference in the quality or feeling of
this target in comparison to any other type of target they had
previously done.

All the Remote Viewers’ data looks and feels as though they
are trying to describe a real and physical object and event.
There is no evidence to indicate that they knew it was a
concept or a thought.

What does this mean? What are the

implications?
Well, that’s really the 64 million dollar question. But from the
growing list of projects, experiments and from other personal
experiences I have collected, it appears that a Remote Viewer
can accurately and easily access a target even if this target and
information does not physically exist. More so, the target need

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:39

only exist in the mind of a person and it can still be accurately Did I get the information from the target? From other people?
accessed just like any other target. Or am I just pulling information or having the information
pushed to me directly from the tasker’s mind? In my opinion,
Thoughts, theories, ideas, visions, probably even memories we just do not know the answer to this yet.
are all just as valid and accessible as real physical objects are.
Problematically for a Viewer, there seems to be no difference It has also bolstered my trust in the protocols and in the
in data feel or quality during the transfer process. absolute need for quality ’confirmatory feedback’ evidence
when using Remote viewing to solve problems and answer
For me, this calls into question the role of EVERY person questions.
involved in the RV project. From the tasker, to the project
manager, to the viewer, analysts and probably even the future As the Father of Remote Viewing (Ingo Swann) said:
people who read, disseminate, comment and review the
project data. They could all be connected, all have a part to “Remote Viewing is composed of a five
play, could all be sources of information. part protocol, and when any one of the five
We know that thoughts, ideas, concepts and more can easily
parts are omitted (such as confirmatory
be accessed by Remote Viewers. What we don’t know yet is by feedback), then what has taken place is
what mechanism is this done? And how much of what we call something other than remote viewing…..
Remote Viewing is telepathic?
If these important definitional boundaries
Is Remote Viewing a mechanism whereby all information, no are not understood and maintained,
matter if it’s physical or non-physical, is recorded or connected the ultimate result will be ambiguous
in some way? This theory is the physics of Non-Locality and
Entanglement - whereby particles exist in more than one place
definitional quagmire of benefit to no one,
at more than one time, and communication is instantaneous and the demolition of what the remote
across limitless distances. All information is everywhere. viewing protocol achieved in terms of
respect and repute”
OR...
Ingo Swann – Fate article – On remote viewing UFOS
Is the role of direct mind-to-mind communication a larger and extraterrestrials September 1993.
component of the Remote Viewing process than originally
given credit for? Could it be that a Remote Viewer is just What these collected examples have shown me as a practicing
tapping into the thoughts, ideas, wants of the tasker and Remote Viewer is that until we, as Remote Viewers, know
other humans, and supplying information? And perhaps even more about the role of ’possible’ telepathy within Remote
reaching out to future analysts, reviewers and other minds for Viewing and also the underlying mechanism of the Remote
information to fill in the blanks? Remember, time does not Viewing process, then we should all be very cautious when
seem to hinder nor be in play within Remote Viewing. Remote Viewing is used in ANY project that does not have
’sufficient confirmatory feedback’.
Clearly in the examples shown in this article, this could be a
possibility because the only place the target existed for my We need to be diligent and ethical in making any claims, and
experiment was in my mind. in using this information. It appears that Remote Viewing
really does NOT have ANY boundaries including the minds and
To be honest, we just don’t know - yet. thoughts of anyone involved in the projects.

Because we still do not know the mechanics of PSI. It could The data we supply as Remote Viewers may just be a theory
be either of these theories, a combination of both or even or idea that the tasker wants us to confirm. And we MAY just
something else. Something completely new. But clearly, and be ‘parrot reporting’ this back to them, thinking it is real data.
at this stage, we cannot discount ANYTHING. After all, Remote In my opinion, this - at the very least - has to be taken into
Viewing is based on scientific protocols, born out of a scientific account until we know otherwise.
need. So until proven otherwise, we have to look at all the
possibilities and include all the possibilities. Thoughts, ideas, concepts, theories and much more can ALL
be accessed with no discernible difference from any other
My recent project, the past projects and now my growing information, which does somewhat confuse our situation. But
collection of this type of ’non-physical’ situations has made me it is also that which, in itself, opens up a whole new universe
even more curious and re-sparked my interest in this field. But of potential for this art form and where we can take it and
it has also made me become more wary about the information develop it from here. This excites me greatly.
I supply as a Remote Viewer. Because really, where did the
information come from? We, as Remote Viewers, project managers and even as paying

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:40

clients all have to be open and honest that, at this stage, we hack into any computer system on earth. Finally, in the words
have not discounted that reported remote viewing information of Edward Riordan: ” it appears there truly are no secrets
MAY be coming direct from the tasker (or maybe even others) anymore…”
in some form of telepathic communication. We already
suspect that somehow the Remote Viewer unconsciously So please be careful out there.
knows what the tasker’s intent and target choice is, so some
form of connection or communication is already taking place
in the RV process. There is nothing at this stage to say where
Thanks to:
this communication starts and stops.
Glenn Wheaton (HRVG), Dick Allgire, John Cook, Pam
Coronado, Stewart Edwards, Edward Riordan, for your help
In conclusion: in both the IRVA presentation, this article that followed,
and in the work you do. Also a big thanks to ALL the Remote
What part does Telepathy play within RV? Viewers from all the projects mentioned, and even more who
contribute and publicly share projects and experiments so
Well, that’s the question isn’t it? I don’t feel we can yet fully that we can all more fully understand our practice.
answer this. But it’s very possible that it’s a huge part and until
we know otherwise, this always has to be considered in every Glen Wheaton (HRVG) - https://www.hrvg.org
project we ALL do. Especially so on projects that don’t have
sufficient confirmatory feedback sources. Dick Allgire - https://www.facebook.com/dallgire

The role of telepathy, in my opinion, still needs much more IRVA - http://www.irva.org
consideration and research to discern how much of a role,
Pam Coronado - https://pamcoronado.com
when and how it comes into play. Hopefully we can all take
this journey together. Edward Riordan - http://erviewer.com
There really does seem to be no boundaries whatsoever in Daz Smith - http://www.remoteviewed.com,
what can be accessed and reported using Remote Viewing.
This also includes the ’non-physical’. Things like thoughts, https://www.facebook.com/groups/remoteviewers/,
ideas, concepts and many things that hide in our minds. Things
that a great many people on this planet would rather not have http://www.eightmartinis.com/
accessible, but clearly they are.

In the 1992 film ’Sneakers’ with Robert Redford and Sidney

Poitier they used the anagram of ’setec astronomy’ which
turned out to mean ’too many secrets’, for a device that could

Daz Smith is a remote viewer using the CRV methodology. Daz has been
remote vieiwing for over 22 years and can often be found in his popular
Facebook Remote Viewing group, working on projects, publishing this
magazine and working with the team of viewer on Cryptoviewing.com on
cryptocurrency, news predictions & mystery projects.

Email: [email protected]
Web: www.remoteviewed.com
https://www.patreon.com/cryptoviewing

Daz Smith

*eight martinis | issue 17 page:41

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Remote viewing Resources
Ten Thousand Roads [TKR] - RV resources - www.dojopsi.com/tkr
Remoteviewed.com (RV examples, documents) - www.remoteviewed.com
Firedocs - massive RV resources and files - www.firedocs.com
Biomindsuperpowers - The Ingo Swann website - www.biomindsuperpowers.com
Jon Knowles 120+ Rv links - www.mprv.net/one20.html
Remoteviewed RV bibliography - www.remoteviewed.com/remote-viewing-bibliography.html
Precognitive remote viewing playground - www.ThePremonitionCode.com/tester.
Precognition and precognitive remote viewing Telegram chat group - t.me/PremCodeX_group

Remote Viewing Targets

RV Targets.com - www.rvtargets.com
Ten Thousand Roads - www.dojopsi.com/tkr
Target Monkey - www.remoteviewed.com/target/
Lyn Buchanan’s Target of the week - www.crviewer.com/TARGETS/TargetIndex.asp

Remote Viewing Groups

The Farsight Institute - www.farsight.org
N.Y. RV Practice Group - www.rvpgnyc.com
Daz’s Facebook - Remote viewing group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/remoteviewers/

Remote Viewing - Individuals

Ingo Swann’s Biomind website - www.biomindsuperpowers.com
Joe McMoneagle website - www.mceagle.com
Russell Targ website -www.espresearch.com
Daz Smith news/blog - www.remoteviewed.com
Intuitive Recon - www.intuitiverecon.com
Pj’s Red Cairo Rv blog - redcairo.blogspot.com
Dean Radin website - www.deanradin.com
Marty Rosenblatt website - www.p-i-a.com
Jon’s 120 RV links blog - mprview.blogspot.com
Alexis Champion - IRIS I.C. - www.iris-ic.com

Remote viewing training & trainers

Tier1 Remote Viewing - Daz Smith (CRV) - www.tier1remoteviewing.com
RVIS - Paul H Smith (CRV) - www.rviewer.com
P>S>I - Lyn Buchanan (CRV) - www.crviewer.com
Angela T Smith (CRV) - www.remoteviewingnv.com
Stephan A Schwartz (Natural) - www.stephanaschwartz.com
Ed Dames (LearnRV/TRV) - www.learnrv.com
David Morehouse (CRV) - www.davidmorehouse.com
Australian Remote Viewing Unit - www.remoteviewingunit.org
The Farsight Institute (SRV) - www.farsight.org
Intuitive Specialists (CRV) - intuitivespecialists.com
Aesthetic Impact Informational Services (CRV) - www.aestheticimpact.com
Coleen Marenich (CRV) – www.crvtraining.ca