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Ashley Mok

Professor Fimbres

KINT 003 - #36032

26 May 2019

Interview Transcript

Interviewee:​ Laurel Boc (LB)

Interviewer:​ Ashley Mok (AM)

Occupation:​ Freelance Programmer

AM​: “Hello Laurel, it’s nice to meet you! I’m currently a sophomore student at Pasadena City
College. I heard of your career choice and I’ve been really interested in programming as a career.
Before we start, please tell me more about yourself and then we can get into some questions
regarding your profession.”

LB:​ “Hello, Ashley! It’s nice to meet you too. As you know, my name is Laurel Boc and I'm a
fulltime student at the University of La Verne. I’m a Computer Science Major, with a
concentration in software, and am currently a freelance proofreader, editor, and programmer.”

AM:​ “Ooh interesting! I think it’s fantastic that you work as a freelance programmer along with
being a proofreader and an editor. Those seem like very difficult jobs to take all at once. ​What
made you first decide to take programming as a career choice in the first place? Also, when and
what was your first job like as a programmer? Was it difficult getting a job for your first time?​”

LB​: “I’ll admit at balancing freelance work and my college education can be difficult at times,
but I think I’ve managed well so far. It kind of hard to tell when I decided to pursue a
programming career, but I think it was sometime in high school. I’ve always been interested in
games and game development, so I suppose that led to my career choice. Before I took my first
computer science class, I heard from others that it was an extremely hard subject, and it took me
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a while to muster enough courage to take my first computer science course in my Senior year in
high school. Even then, I still wasn’t sure if I really wanted to major in the field, but what I did
know was that I wouldn’t want to be doing anything else either. It was the best option for me, I
guess. I got my first job sometime in November or December last year, and I'd say I got really
luck to get an opportunity so early. It was from a successful indie franchise and I was hired to
help with creating a demo for their frat visual novel adaptation of their work. There were good
and bad experiences that came with it, but unfortunately, I think the bad outweighed the good.
My work was to be monitored by a more advanced programmer, who was supposed to be like an
instructor for me, and I was fine with that because I was the newbie. But as time went on, I
wasn’t being treated with basic respect from the programmer and I wanted the project to be done
as soon as possible so I could leave it behind. After that, I started programming my own things
because that experience made me feel like I might not be good enough to get paid for my work.
It was then, when I really started to genuinely like programming. I was proud of my work and I
didn’t have someone in a higher position refusing to give me constructive criticism and never
bothered to try to help me improve when they were supposed to catch my mistakes and let me
learn from them.”

AM​: “Game development is also one of my interests as well, which is largely the reason why
I’m interested in this career path. I’ve also heard from others that Computer Science is a arduous
class, which is why I shied away from it in high school. I’m glad that you found it to be your best
option and pursued it. I absolutely love that you persevered even when you weren’t given little to
no help from your advanced programmer peer at the time and were fairly new to the job, it’s very
inspirational that you were able to be independent through your first job and not let your interest
for the subject be affected from this experience. ​Despite only being a year ago since your first
job, Do you feel you've improved since then?​ ​Is there anything you'd specifically like to
improve/work on?​ ​Also, speaking of this particular experience and your other experiences that
‘bad outweighed the good’, what are the specific advantages and disadvantages of your career?
As with any career, there are many drawbacks yet positives to why it’s a preferable choice. This
is why I’m interested to know what are the particular ones that this field has. You’ve also
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mentioned that balancing both your career and your education is difficult yet you’re able to
manage both at once. I think that’s wonderful that you’re able to do that without sacrificing one
over the other. ​Do you follow a specific agenda/schedule to help you complete your job on time?
If so, I would love to know what that schedule is like in detail.​ As someone who struggles time
management, I find it difficult at times to manage both at once without prioritizing one of over
the other.”

LB​: “An advantage that comes with the career is the income. While I don’t have a formal job
with a company and have experienced a consistent income yet, programmers are in high demand
across various businesses. For freelancing, I work with visual novels and by sacrificing the large
salary that comes with a formal job, I can make my own rate and hours. Just having a degree in
Computer Science can boost a salary too. As for disadvantages, programming is a ‘man’s world’
and sexism isn’t a secret. Then again, I could use that to my advantage when there's a higher
demand for female programmers. Another disadvantage would be concerning the learning
process; you either know it or you don’t. It's normal to spend hours, if not days, on a program
you just can’t get right. And sometimes, you just can’t do it. The tech world is constantly
changing too, so it’s best to know your way around the numerous programming languages. After
my first job, I’ve improved exponentially. I learned how to work with the advanced mechanics of
the program application I use for work, Ren'Py, in a few months. Before, I could only work with
scripts, but now I can code advanced GUI and animate. My next goal is to learn how to animate
the GUI itself. I have time to start learning again now that summer vacation is coming up.
During school, I managed to balance my personal and work schedule by giving up free time.
Once I got a school assignment, I usually started it right away and tried to finish it in a few hours
if possible. I would then dedicate the rest of the day to freelance work. There were lots of times
where I worked for days straight, but it always paid off at the end.”

AM​: “It’s empowering that you’re going strong in this field as a female in a career where sexism
is present, as it shows that everyone regardless of gender can do this. I really respect that!
Regarding programming on it’s own, what challenges do you face with programming?​ ​And what
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does programming means to you as an individual​? I would love to know that perspective from
you! It’s also great to hear that income is one of the advantages of this field! ​What is your
average pay as a freelance programmer? ​I can only imagine what it’s like considering it’s one of
your advantages. I also have a lot of respect for freelance workers as you’re able to decide on
your own rates and how you spend your time. I’ll definitely take your advice on the free time so I
can get more ahead in my work as well since I’m not the best at using my time wisely [​laughs​].​ ​I
think being a freelance worker is a wonderful idea for programming, although I’m not sure if I
would need another job to support myself nor any idea on how to properly price as it’s difficult
to count by minimum wage. ​Do you think that this freelance career is stable and can support all
your costs as a stand-alone career long term? How do you decide your pricing for a
programming job​? What you make is definitely a large part of the job process and as someone
who’s hoping to enter the field, I hope to have a stable income through this career that’s enough
to support myself. You’ve also mentioned programs such as Ren’py and programming terms
such as GUI which I’m not quite familiar with, but I think it’s fantastic that you were self-taught
with what you do. ​What other program(s) do you use? Have you changed program(s) since you
first started and if so, what are they called?​ I know that I’ve switched between programs for
video editing since I first began and I wonder if programming is similar. ​What’s the function of
each of the program(s) you use?​ ”

LB​: “There are lots of challenges with programming, and I think pretty much any challenge
possible is one. I personally think the greatest challenge is the amount of time you need to devote
to the work. It's hard to estimate how much time something will take because problems you don't
think you'll encounter, always reveals itself somehow. Programming is meticulous too, so even
just one misplaced character in the code can prevent anything from executing. Programming to
me… I don't know if it has any special meaning. I definitely see it as a special skill, but I don’t
think much of it other than a means to get a job. It's occasionally a hobby too, for when I make
my own things. I guess my average pay is around $200 per job. I haven't found a rate I'm super
comfortable yet, so it makes costs kind of a gamble. I look at how others price things and work
around that. The way things are right now, freelance programming is definitely not enough to
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sustain myself. I'll need to find a permanent job to have a stable income. Freelancing is
unpredictable and it's not uncommon to go months without work. I do plan on eventually making
a living only off of freelancing in the future, though. I’m in the process of making some products
to put on the market, made with Ren’Py and Atom. Ren’Py is a visual novel creator and Atom is
a code text editor. They're the only programs I use for programming work.”

AM​: “I see, it’s very interesting that freelance work allows you to determine your pricing as such
with feeling like a ‘gamble’. Freelancing seems like a lovely career choice, but it’s unpredictable
and seems like it comes with risks, so having a backup plan always comes in handy. Price setting
can be difficult to figure out so take your time to figure out what works best for you. As you’ve
noted, you consider programming to be a special skill and I like that you describe it as such. I
wish you luck in doing freelance programming full-time in the future! Regarding skills, ​what
skills are required for this field of work? Can someone who has no experience at all be a part of
the field?​ ​Are there any skills you’ve learned from this career that are beneficial to you outside
of work?​ Lastly, I would like to ask as an aspiring programmer myself who has yet to get into the
field, ​what is some advice that you would give to those hoping to pursue programming as a
career choice?​ ”

LB​: “I think to be a good programmer, one needs to be diligent, organized, and pays close
attention to detail. Otherwise, your own work can be your worst nightmare if you can't find a
mistake or understand what you did. Time management is important too because one should be
prepared for setbacks; they happen more often than not. And in regards to those who are
completely new, it's definitely possible to join the field. I think that if anyone puts enough effort
into learning material, they can be just as skilled as anyone else. And for skills I learned from
computer science? It's hard to tell, but I do understand some things I didn't before. Like reasons
why certain things are named what they are. I can understand more about how computers work,
like small things about the system. The only advice I can give applies to other things as well: be
organized and do your best. The amount of effort someone puts into something speaks for itself.”
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AM​: “That’s some wonderful information that I’ll remember. As with any kind of work, putting
it off to the last second can become a nightmare really quick, I think we’ve all learned our lesson
from that [​laughs]​ . Organization as an aspect of any career, which is something I really need to
practice on if I want to succeed in this field. I like that you said anyone can join as long as they
put the effort into it. Effort is huge for any career and that’s what takes us to where we want to
be. That gives me hope in this field despite it having it’s clear ups and downs. Well, thank you so
much for your time, Laurel! I really enjoyed speaking to you on programming. You expanded
my understanding on the subject much more than I originally knew and now I know it’s
definitely not easy at all, but knowing that it takes effort and hardwork, I know it should be
doable! I hope to speak with you again soon!” [​shakes hand​]

LB​: “No problem! It was nice speaking with you too. Whatever your future plans are, I hope all
goes well.” [​shakes hand back]​

[Transcript End]