House Hearing, 112TH Congress - Tsa Oversight Part 2: Airport Perimeter Security

TSA OVERSIGHT PART 2: AIRPORT PERIMETER
SECURITY
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY,

HOMELAND DEFENSE AND FOREIGN OPERATIONS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
JULY 13, 2011
Serial No. 11275

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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

DARRELL E. ISSA,
DAN BURTON, Indiana
JOHN L. MICA, Florida
TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio
PATRICK T. MCHENRY, North Carolina
JIM JORDAN, Ohio
JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah
CONNIE MACK, Florida
TIM WALBERG, Michigan
JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan
ANN MARIE BUERKLE, New York
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona
L R. LABRADOR, Idaho
RAU
PATRICK MEEHAN, Pennsylvania
SCOTT DESJARLAIS, Tennessee
JOE WALSH, Illinois
TREY GOWDY, South Carolina
DENNIS A. ROSS, Florida
FRANK C. GUINTA, New Hampshire
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas
MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania
California, Chairman
ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland, Ranking
Minority Member
EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
Columbia
DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio
JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
JIM COOPER, Tennessee
GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois
DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois
BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa
PETER WELCH, Vermont
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky
CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut
JACKIE SPEIER, California
LAWRENCE J. BRADY, Staff Director

JOHN D. CUADERES, Deputy Staff Director
ROBERT BORDEN, General Counsel
LINDA A. GOOD, Chief Clerk
DAVID RAPALLO, Minority Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE
ON
NATIONAL SECURITY, HOMELAND DEFENSE

OPERATIONS
AND
FOREIGN
JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman

L R. LABRADOR, Idaho, Vice Chairman JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts, Ranking
RAU
DAN BURTON, Indiana
Minority Member
JOHN L. MICA, Florida
BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa
TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania
PETER WELCH, Vermont
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas
MIKE QUIGLEY, Illinois
(II)
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CONTENTS
Page
Hearing held on July 13, 2011 ...............................................................................

Statement of:
Sammon, John, Assistant Administrator, U.S. Transportation Security
Administration; Stephen M. Lord, Director, Homeland Security and
Justice Issues, U.S. Government Accountability Office; TJ Jerry Orr,
airport director and operator, Charlotte International Airport; Rafi Ron,
president, New Age Security Issues, former director of security Tel
Aviv-Ben Gurion International Airport; and William Parker, inspector,
K9 Unit, Amtrak Police Department ........................................................
Lord, Stephen M. .......................................................................................
Orr, TJ Jerry ...........................................................................................
Parker, William .........................................................................................
Ron, Rafi ....................................................................................................
Sammon, John ...........................................................................................
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Lord, Stephen M., Director, Homeland Security and Justice Issues, U.S.
Government Accountability Office, prepared statement of .......................
Orr, TJ Jerry, airport director and operator, Charlotte International
Airport, prepared statement of ....................................................................
Parker, William, inspector, K9 Unit, Amtrak Police Department, prepared statement of ........................................................................................
Ron, Rafi, president, New Age Security Issues, former director of security
Tel Aviv-Ben Gurion International Airport, prepared statement of .........
Sammon, John, Assistant Administrator, U.S. Transportation Security
Administration, prepared statement of .......................................................
Tierney, Hon. John F., a Representative in Congress from the State
of Massachusetts, prepared statement of ...................................................
9
13
33
46
41
9
15
35
48
42
11
5
(III)
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TSA OVERSIGHT PART 2: AIRPORT

PERIMETER SECURITY
WEDNESDAY, JULY 13, 2011
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
ON NATIONAL SECURITY, HOMELAND
DEFENSE AND FOREIGN OPERATIONS,
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM,
SUBCOMMITTEE
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:30 a.m., in room
2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Jason Chaffetz (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Chaffetz, Mica, Platts, Gosar,
Farenthold, Tierney, and Lynch.
Staff present: Thomas A. Alexander, senior counsel; Kate Dunbar, staff assistant; Linda Good, chief clerk; Christopher Hixon,
deputy chief counsel, oversight; Mitchell S. Kominsky, counsel; Justin LoFranco, deputy director of digital strategy; Laura L. Rush,
deputy chief clerk; Sang Yi, professional staff member; Jaron
Bourke, minority director of administration; Kevin Corbin, minority
staff assistant; and Carlos Uriarte, minority counsel.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Good morning. The committee will come to order.
We appreciate you all being here for this oversight hearing, part
number 2, regarding the TSA airport perimeter screening. Id like
to welcome Ranking Member Tierney and members of the subcommittee and members of the audience who are here and participating with us, and those of you that are watching on television.
Todays proceedings are the second in a series of hearings designed to evaluate the status of U.S. airport security and the policies employed by the Department of Homeland Security. There are
a number of concerns that have been highlighted to be drawn out
here today. First and foremost, we have learned that there have
been 25,000 security breaches at U.S. airports since November
2001. And I do appreciate the TSA in tracking and providing that
data, but obviously those are the ones that we know about, and the
deep concern is what about the ones that we dont know about, and
the creativity and things that can happen in the future.
We also are deeply concerned about the TSA failing to conduct
threat vulnerability assessments in order to identify gaps in perimeter screening. In 2009 the GAO had concluded there were 87 percent of these airports that had not had these threat assessments
done, and that number really has not changed.
TSA also lacks a national strategy to secure commercial airports
and access control; this, again, coming from a GAO report that says
(1)
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that the Nations 457 commercial airports have not, been guided
by a unifying national strategy.
Also concerned about more than 900,000 security badges at these
457 airports, and the dangers that that can lead to and the challenges that that presents.
Were also concerned about whats happening at some of our Nations airports; for instance, at JFK the investigative reports show
that at least a quarter mile of the perimeter fence is down, leaving
a gaping hole in security along a main JFK runway. This project
is 4 years behind schedule.
Also concerned about what happened at Dallas Love Field. The
fence has been breached or damaged almost 20 times in less than
5 years. In fact, air traffic control tapes show that pilots on the
ground were unsure of what to do when a pickup truck crashed
through a fence and drove onto the tarmac on August 19, 2010.
One of the pilots inquired, Tower, whats the protocol for something like this? If hes coming at us, can we move? Airport control
tower responded, Just hold position.
We are also concerned about whats happening at LAX. They
have 8 miles of fence there, built in stages over the past decade,
and yet no one consistent standard has happened. We have spent
nearlywe will have spent nearly $500 million on AIT machines
I call them the whole body imaging machineby the time we get
to the year 2013. And yet these machines, there are parts and gaps
in that security that dont work.
I happen to believe that theres a better, smarter way to do this
that is more secure, less invasive, and were going to hear some
testimony today talking about the canine units and what they are
able to do. And I look forward to hearing that testimony.
Were also concerned that these AIT machines, or whole body imaging machines, would not have found some of the weapons that
were attempted to be used in the December 2009 incident. And the
list goes on.
TSA has spent millions and millions of dollars in technology that
has not worked. You remember the 207 puffer machines. After
spending $30 million and having those deployed, those were put
back on the shelf.
The challenge before us is great. Its immense. Its real. And we
have to deal with that threat to our Nation. Its not going to go
away. There is no end to the creativity of terrorists. And while I
have heard the press recount say that well, lets remember the
25,000 security breaches are 1 percent, or even less than, 1 percent, unfortunately, we have to be right all the time. Terrorists
only have to get lucky once.
A lot of what we have been participating here, in my personal
opinion, has been security theater, and has not truly done the job
to secure the airports to the degree that we need to. And I think
one of the personal challenges that we have as a Nation is how do
we become more secure and yet less invasive; that we dont give
up every personal liberty in the name of security. And we have to
find that proper balance. Its a difficult one, knowing that the
threat is real.
So I look forward to this hearing today. We are going to also
so rather than wax on, Id love to hear from the panel. But at this
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time Id like to recognize the ranking member of this subcommittee,
the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Tierney, for his opening
statement.
Mr. TIERNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank our witnesses for being here this morning as well.
Look, we understand that we are going to address some important issues here today. And one of them, for instance, is the
Screening Passenger Observation Techniques [SPOT] program. Our
Government Accountability Office has criticized that SPOT program, saying that it lacks appropriate scientific validation.
The Department of Homeland Security has released a study that
it says showed SPOT is more effective than random screening, but
it does acknowledge that it didnt address whether behavioral analysis is actually an effective way to detect potential terrorists. Now,
theyve spent $750 million on it already; theyre asking for another
$250 million. I think its pretty critical that we, with that significant investment out there, that we take a good look and scrutinize
whether or not this program actually is effective at identifying potential threats to security.
Were also going to discuss the screening of checked baggage
using the explosive detection technology. Congress mandated 100
percent screening of checked bags by the Transportation Security
Agency, but its been slow to implement those standards at airports
across the country,
Again, the Government Accountability Office said that despite
the regulations being in effect in 2005, the expositive detection
technology requirements werent put in place till 2009.
Turning to the issue of perimeter security, there have been some
high-profile breaches that we are all aware of. Specifically, we will
hear today about the tragic incident that occurred just outside of
Bostons Logan Airport, where a young man fell from a plane as
it approached the airport for landing. According to news reports, he
likely gained access to the plane after breaching airport perimeter
security in Charlotte. This is not a unique incident, unfortunately.
We have also heard about serial security breaches by Mr. Ronald
Wong, who was somehow able to make it on to a plane leaving JFK
Airport in New York to San Francisco with a stolen boarding pass.
The Government Accountability Office has also raised concerns
about perimeter security at our Nations airports. In 2009 they
found the TSA had failed to implement a national strategy to address perimeter security, and that only a small percentage of airports had completed joint vulnerability assessments. This, again,
raised serious questions that have to be addressed.
So as we evaluate these incidents and the challenges, its probably important for us to take the time to understand what security
functions the Transportation Security Administration is not directly responsible for. And one of those is the perimeter area. They
are not principally responsible for perimeter security at airports.
That perimeter security is primarily the responsibility of airport
operators, while TSAs role is to ensure that the operator is adhering to an appropriate security plan that meets Federal standards.
So, as I said at the last hearing on TSA, the Agency has a difficult and unenviable task, but its our responsibility, our role, to
provide constructive criticism with which you at TSA can strike the
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balance between security, convenience and cost, hopefully, weighing heavily on the security aspect. I hope our hearing today can
help TSA do just that. And I thank the chairman again for bringing us together.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Hon. John F. Tierney follows:]
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Mr. CHAFFETZ. We will now recognize the chairman of the Transportation Committee, and also a member of this subcommittee, the
gentleman from Florida, Mr. Mica, for his opening statement.
Mr. MICA. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Mr.
Tierney, for your leadership and also pursuing very important
issues relating to transportation security and holding a very important Agency accountable.
Having been involved with the TSA and actually picked the
name for the Agency and helped craft its enabling legislation some
10 years ago, Ive had a chance to monitor its activities closely. And
unfortunately, I become more and more concerned with the billions
of dollars that are being expended. Some of it just astounds me.
Weve created an Agency thats actually run pell mell away from
security and turned into a huge, unthinking, nonrisk-based bureaucracy. Everywhere I turn, Im appalled at whats taking place.
Recently I had the opportunity to go to our State Capitol, Tallahassee, and I left the airport to pick up a rental car. And the airport is located on about a 16-foot embankment that actually is an
embankment across the entire length of the airport. Heres the
front of the airport. Heres the embankment, 16 feet high. And just
to show youwere talking about airport security and perimeters
how idiotic we could be in implementation of any requirement like
this. But this is the parking space for rental cars. This is a 16-foot
embankment. You can see up here where cars go through the entrance of the airport.
Now, theres a new airport administrator. He wasnt familiar
with all of the details, but were going to do a thorough investigation of this. This is just one instance, again, of a nonthinking Agency.
I dont know of any explosive device that could possibly penetrate
16 feet here, except maybe a nuclear weapon. I dont know how
much it cost to put these barriers here, but again, forcing a small
airportor if TSA paid for an idiotic expense, not to mention the
cost to the taxpayer or the airport. But then, of course, they would
never consider the economic loss to the car rental firm or to the
revenue of the airport.
But every time, everywhere I turn, I see a disregard for the taxpayer. This is just one instance and one small community. Again,
just an unthinking Agency. Their budget is, what, in the $8 billion
range?
Then I open the paper a week or two ago when I returned to
Washington, and I look at this ad. Now, of course, the Humane Society is looking for a vice president of Federal Affairs and they
have a littleId say its about a sixth of the page. But we have
a four-color, half-page ad for a Deputy Assistant Administrator for
Legislative Affairs in this and other Capitol Hill publications. Half
page. Only total disregard for taxpayers resources could you expend money onwhether its a venture like this at my State Capitol airport, or in a Capitol Hill publication. And Im going to request, too, an accounting for expenditure of this money.
And let me just tell TSA, too, that if you refuse to cooperate with
my committee, the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, I
have had and will continue to have the cooperation of both this
subcommittee on which I serve, and the full committee. Mr. Issa
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and the chairman here have agreed to cooperate to get this information. And we will get the data, whether its this or other activities such as youve refused to provide information to us on regarding your expenditure of your national deployment force where you
cant hire people, or people leave their jobs and you have to fly
them in, put them up at hotels, pay their expenses, and pay them
a per diem. Whether its that issue or more than a dozen pending
items, we will get the information. We will investigate. We will protect the taxpayers who are paying the bulk of the expenses for this
fiasco.
So thank you for holding this hearing. Well get to some issues
and questions in a few minutes. And I yield back.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. Well now recognize the gentleman
from Massachusetts, Mr. Lynch, if hed like an opening statement.
We will recognize you for 5 minutes.
Mr. LYNCH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Very briefly, obviously
the interest of airport perimeter security is a tremendous one for
all of us. I know that we have spent enormously on the safety and
security of the processes within our airports. But this is something
thatthe security of our perimeters of these airports has become
much more of a concern since the fairly recent incidents that involved my district. The young man who was apparently stowed
away on an aircraft recently from, I believe it was South Carolina,
to Logan Airport in Boston, actually was found deceased in my district, in the town of Milton in my district. So I was able to see up
close the tremendous concern generated by this, the hardship on
the family, the concerns of all the law enforcement involved as
well, and obviously the concern within the aviation community.
So I think it is worthwhile to spend some time to redouble our
efforts to focus our resources on an area that we believe has been
neglected.
And I want to thank the witnesses here for their willingness to
come before us to help us with this task, to help the committee to
make sure that were being thorough in our examination, that
were not overlooking anything, and that, you know, as a result of
this incident and some others, that at the end of this process the
American flying public will be safer and our communities will be
safer, and our airports will be more secure. Thats the goal here for
both Democrats and Republicans. Thats our intent here.
And again, I want to thank the witnesses for coming before this
committee to help us with our work. I yield back.
Id like to now introduce our panel so they can be prepared for
their opening statements.
Mr. John Sammon is the Assistant Administrator with the
Transportation Security Administration. We do appreciate your
being here.
Mr. Stephen Lord is the Director of the Homeland Security Team
at the Government Accountability Office.
Mr. Jerry Orr is the aviation director at the Charlotte Douglas
International Airport.
Mr. Rafi Ron is the president of New Age Security Solutions, and
is the former director of security at Tel Aviv-Ben Gurion International Airport.
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And Inspector William Parker is the commander of Amtrak Police Departments K9 Unit. We appreciate you being here as well.
Pursuant to committee rules, all witnesses will be sworn in before they testify. Please rise, if you would, and raise your right
hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. Please be seated. Let the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative.
In order to allow time for discussion, we would appreciate if
youd limit your verbal testimony to 5 minutes or less. Your entire
written statement will be entered into the record.
So with that, well start with Mr. Sammon. Youre recognized for
5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF JOHN SAMMON, ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION; STEPHEN M. LORD, DIRECTOR, HOMELAND SECURITY
AND JUSTICE ISSUES, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY
OFFICE; TJ JERRY ORR, AIRPORT DIRECTOR AND OPERATOR, CHARLOTTE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT; RAFI RON,
PRESIDENT, NEW AGE SECURITY ISSUES, FORMER DIRECTOR OF SECURITY TEL AVIV-BEN GURION INTERNATIONAL
AIRPORT; AND WILLIAM PARKER, INSPECTOR, K9 UNIT, AMTRAK POLICE DEPARTMENT
STATEMENT OF JOHN SAMMON
Mr. SAMMON. Good morning, Chairman Chaffetz, Ranking Member Tierney, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the
Transportation Security Administrations responsibility regarding
perimeter security at U.S. commercial airports.
I would like to emphasize three points. First, every airport has
an individualized security plan of which securityperimeter security is an important piece. Two, airport authorities are responsible
for executing the plan. Three, TSA is responsible for approving the
plan and inspecting airport compliance with the plan.
Unlike checkpoint security, airport authority people investments
play the lead role in carrying out airport perimeter security. TSA
conducts airport inspections to enhance security and mitigate risk
associated with perimeter integrity, including joint vulnerability
assessments, special emphasis inspections, and the testing of access control processes at airports. TSA analyzes the results of these
inspections and assessments to develop mitigation strategies that
enhance an airports security posture and to determine if any
changes are required.
Perimeter-related airport compliance has been inspected 27,031
times over the past 16 months. Every commercial airport receives
an annual security assessment, to include an assessment of perimeter and access controls. Earlier this year, TSAs Office of Security
Operations initiated a special emphasis assessment and special inspection of all airports evaluating perimeter security, including
fencing, non-fence manmade barriers, natural barriers, closed circuit television, electronic intrusion and motion detection devices.
Assessments are complete for the largest airports, with the smaller
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airports expected to be complete by September 30, 2011. The results of the inspection were collaborative improvements and also
violations which may result in civil penalties.
Going beyond compliance, we work collaboratively with airport
operators and airport associations, and in that collaboration, TSA
issued updated and improved security guidelines for airport design
and construction, as well as an innovative measures report which
highlights best practices from airports of all sizes across the United
States. The innovative measures report effort was the first of its
kind in working closely with airports across the Nation on base lining and best practices in airport perimeter, access control, terminal
frontages, and other key areas.
Over 700 measures and practices from over 100 airports were assessed as part of this groundbreaking initiative. Because of that effort, airports now have a self-assessment module and a resource allocation tool. The tool incorporates attack scenarios, vulnerability
scores, consequence scores, and countermeasure success probabilities. It allows airports to baseline their security programs
against other airports innovative measures that will directly inform decisions about improvements to provide the greatest risk reduction for their money at their location.
TSAs goal is to work with airport authorities to stay ahead of
evolving terrorist threats, while protecting passengers privacy and
facilitating the efficient flow of travelers and legitimate commerce.
TSAs airport perimeter security initiatives are one part of that
comprehensive effort.
I want to thank the committee for the opportunity to discuss this
important issue. Im pleased to answer any questions you may
have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sammon follows:]
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Mr. CHAFFETZ. Well now recognize Mr. Lord, whos from the
Government Accountability Office. Well recognize you for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF STEPHEN M. LORD
Mr. LORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Tierney

and members of the subcommittee. Thanks for inviting me here
today to discuss aviation security issues.
The attempted 2009 Christmas Day attack provides a vivid reminder civil aviation remains an attractive terrorist target and underscores the importance of todays hearing.
Securing commercial aviation operations is difficult, given the
hundreds of airports, thousands of daily flights, with millions of
passengers and pieces of checked baggage. But TSA spends several
billion dollars each year to help secure the system. However, risks
to the system remain.
Today Id like to discuss three layers of the system. First, TSAs
behavior detection program, also called SPOT; airport perimeter
and access controls; and finally, TSAs checked baggage screening
system.
First, regarding TSAs behavior detection program, DHS has
taken actions to validate the underlying signs of the program, but
based on our past reporting more actions are needed. As we reported in May 2010, TSA deployed this program on a nationwide
basis without first demonstrating that it was based on valid
science. According to TSA, SPOT was deployed before a validation
was completed to help address potential threats such as those
posed by suicide bombers.
The good news is DHS completed an initial validation study earlier this year and found that the program was more effective than
random screening in identifying so-called high-risk passengers.
However, as noted in the study, the assessment was just the first
step. Additional research is needed, is going to be needed to fully
validate the program. And some of the recommendations made in
the latest DHS study mirror those we made in our May 2010 report.
In sum, its still an open question whether behavior detection
principles could be successfully applied on a large scale for
counterterrorism purposes in an airport environment.
I would now like to discuss some of the key findings from our
2009 report on airport perimeter security. In terms of progress, we
noted various steps TSA had made, including implementing the
random worker screening program, expanding requirements for
name-based background checks, and developing new biometric security standards. However, we found that TSA had not at the time
completed a comprehensive risk assessment as called for by DHS.
TSA subsequently completed such an assessment in July 2010;
however, the updated assessment did not include an assessment of
the so-called insider threat which TSA views as a significant
threat. The risks posed by insider threats will be included in the
next update due later this year.
We also recommended that TSA consider making greater use of
joint vulnerability assessments. These are a key tool in the TSA
tool box and are completed in conjunction with the FBI. The latest
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data show TSA has completed joint vulnerability assessments on
about 17 percent of TSA-supervised airports, leaving about 83 percent of these airports unassessed.
The last point Id like to discuss is TSAs efforts to deploy
checked baggage screening equipment. This program is one of the
largest acquisition programs within DHS. As highlighted in the report released to Representative Mica yesterday, TSA has upgraded
the explosive detection requirements for this equipment but faces
challenges in meeting these requirements.
The explosive detection requirements for checked baggage machines were established in 1998, and subsequently revised in 2005
and 2010 to better address current threats. However, TSAs current
checked baggage screening systems do not meet the 2010 requirements. Some of the machines are operating at the levels established in 2005. The remainder are operating at levels established
in 1998.
Our report describes some of the challenges TSA faces in procuring and deploying this very complicated technology. For example, DHS and TSA encounter challenges safely collecting data on
the explosives physical and chemical properties. Our report contains six recommendations for improving TSAs process for acquiring these sophisticated systems. The good news is that TSA has
agreed to take action to implement all six of these recommendations.
Mr. Chairman, other distinguished members of the committee,
this concludes my statement. I look forward to answering your
questions. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Lord follows:]
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Mr. CHAFFETZ. Well now recognize Mr. Orr. Hes the airport director and operator of the Charlotte International Airport. We appreciate you being here, sir. Youre recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF TJ JERRY ORR
Mr. ORR. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, my

name is Jerry Orr, and Im the aviation director for the city of
Charlotte, at the Charlotte airport. I have worked for 36 years in
airport management and was a small business owner for 13 years
before that. Im here today to testify on airport perimeter security.
I have been critical of the performance of the TSA since its inception. I am not critical of its mission. I am critical of its measures.
In my judgment, the effectiveness of the TSA is compromised by a
rigid attitude of arrogance and bureaucracy.
In November of last year, the body of a young man was discovered in Milton, Massachusetts, and was thought to have fallen from
an aircraft. I learned about a possible connection to Charlotte in
the media and, therefore, reached out to our Federal security director. He did not want TSA to take the lead and instead recommended I ask our municipal police department to head up an investigation and TSA would assist them.
Ultimately, the available evidence could neither prove nor disprove that a security breach had actually occurred at Charlotte.
The police and TSA theorized how the young man may have
accessed an aircraft. They came up with a reasonable assumption
about what might have happened that excludes entry through a
checkpoint. But the report fails to acknowledge that they could not
conclusively rule out this possibility because TSA had failed to preserve their surveillance video of the checkpoints, and some of it
was lost.
Im not saying that the young man came through a TSA checkpoint. What I am saying is that the TSA failed to even admit the
possibility, and deflected attention elsewhere. This mentality
serves to protect the Agency at the cost of real security needs.
The investigation focused national attention on airport perimeter
security. In Charlotte we have 19 miles of 6-foot-high chain-link
fence with three strands of barbed wire enclosing the airport. This
fence meets all Federal requirements. We spend a half million dollars annually on maintaining the fence, all from the airport budget.
We spend an additional $3 million on 75 personnel with perimeter
security responsibilities. The fence is a deterrent. It says, keep out.
However, the final line of security is the eyes and ears of the
20,000 people who work inside the fence.
TSA seems to believe that airports are automatically in violation
of the regulations, even when they did everything they were obligated to do and it simply didnt work. To me, thats like saying that
Customs and Border Protection itself is violating the law each time
an illegal alien crosses into the United States.
Other examples of TSAs lack of a partnership, we recently asked
TSA to explain their security basis and their legal authority for directing us to do something. But TSA failed or refused to respond
or even acknowledge our questions.
TSA has conflicting roles in operational and regulatory capacities
that are not kept separate. Having an Agency interpret the rules,
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implement actions, and then judge their effectiveness, lends itself
to the possibility of abuse.
I am confident that I am not the only airport operator with significant concerns about the effectiveness of TSA. An adversarial relationship between airports and the very Agency entrusted to help
safeguard them is clearly detrimental to the goal of safety and security.
So what can be done to improve our ability to focus on the real
needs of our Nations airports? Congress should continue to supportits support of allowing airports to opt out of using TSA, and
ensure that the bureaucracy does not throw up arbitrary roadblocks to discourage us from pursuing this alternative. Any entity
working with airports and airlines to achieve security must do just
that, work with them. TSAs current because I say so culture does
not foster respect.
I also believe Congress should redirect some of the available
funding for airport security from TSA directly to airports. The operator is most familiar with the airports vulnerabilities and
strengths and is well equipped to make effective enhancements.
Safety and security are always our number one priority. There
can always be more security, but the challenge is to provide better
security. We need to spend money where it counts, on things that
matter. The path forward to optimal security needs to be reasonable and collaborative. If airports are given the resources we need
and a true partner for security, the traveling public will be the beneficiary.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you, Mr. Orr.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Orr follows:]
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Mr. CHAFFETZ. Well now recognize Mr. Rafi Ron, the former director of security at Tel Avivs Ben-Gurion Airport. Mr. Ron, youre
recognize for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF RAFI RON
Mr. RON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, for inviting me to testify today. Id like to draw the committees attention to three factors that I believe they are playing a key
role in many of the shortcomings in airport security.
The first one is the imbalance that was created shortly after 9/
11 when the TSA had the overwhelming task of recruiting, training, and installing technology in airports around the country, something that has tended to be the backbone of the TSA operation and
influence over security at the airports. At the same time, the airport facility security has received much less attention, and not only
that of screening of passengers and bags where most of the attention and the funding went into, but it was also executed according
to the law by TSA, while the rest of it was left for the local authorities to take care of. Funding was relatively short. The standards
for performance of the security task on the local level are not very
clear and in many cases, do not even exist.
And the point ofor the issue of perimeter security is a very
good example for that, because I think that traveling around the
country, one can easily notice that, first of all, there is very little
consistency in our airports as far as perimeter security is concerned. Second, most of our airports today are still not protected
by an operating perimeter intrusion detection systems. In other
terms, we dont know when a breach occurs. We get to know that
only when it is addressed by somebody or when we end up with
a stowaway making his way to the wheel well and, sadly enough,
losing his life after takeoff. And obviously, this is not a good reasonable standard compared to those that we implement on the passenger and bag screening operation.
The other aspect of that is that the issue of jurisdiction is not
very clear. When it comes to the security operation, security facility
operation at the airport, by law it is the local law enforcement
agency or department that is responsible to do this. But, yet, most
or many of the police departments that provide that service in airports are still implementing their own more as a law enforcement
agency rather than a security agency, and there is a major difference between the two.
And once again, if you look at perimeter as a reflection of this
problem, you can see that the role that the local police department
is taking on perimeter security at airports is minimal and is usually based on responding to calls rather than the early detection
and the prevention.
So I think that there are two areas that still need to receive
much more attention. One is the role and the funding of the local
authorities as far as the airport facility security is concerned. And
second, the need for standards that will create consistent, highlevel performance that will characterize the security in airports
around the country. I thank you very much.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you, Mr. Ron.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Ron follows:]
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Mr. CHAFFETZ. A little bit of explanation here as we introduce Inspector Parker. You may be curious as to why we would invite
somebody from Amtrak, Amtrak Police to be here at the hearing
regarding airport security. One of the questions, I think, that is a
legitimate one that this committee would like to explore is, while
the TSA has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in whole body
imaging machines and technology, there are those, particularly at
the Pentagon, that have come to the conclusion that dogs are the
single best way to find explosive devices.
Id like to ask unanimous consent to introduce in the record
there was a press conference by Lieutenant General Michael Oats.
It says, Dogs are the best detectors. And this, I would point to
this, I know all good Americans get this magazine, Airman, which
is the magazine of the U.S. Air Force. In their May/June 2011 edition, this little pull-out quote here says, Theres no technology
proven more effective in the detection of explosives than the K9.
And there are questions as to are we investing enough in technology that we know that works in K9s, according to the Pentagon, having spent literally tens of billions of dollars.
So, again, without waxing on too much more, we do truly appreciate Inspector Parker being here. And as just a bit of explanation,
hes going to give a bit of testimony and then were going to have
a demonstration. Dont let anybody in here worry anybody in here.
But Ill let him explain how were going to conduct this.
We would just ask that anybody here in the audience stay put,
and if you have some sort of, you know, something, were glad that
youre here, Inspector Parker. But were going to do a bit of a demonstration. We just ask that you kind of hang tight while we do
this demonstration, and appreciate the leeway here of the committee as we do this demonstration. Inspector Parker, well give
you great leeway for your testimony.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM PARKER
Mr. PARKER. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member

Tierney. My name is William Parker, and Im the inspector commander of the Amtrak Police Departments K9 unit. Im honored
to be here today, and I appreciate the invitation to speak with you
about what dogs can do to improve airport security and detect explosives.
A well-trained dog is more capable, useful, reliable and effective
than equipment. Dogs do not depreciate like machines do. If dogs
are trained properly and if their training is consistent, their skill
level will increase with experience.
Perimeter security is of great concern to airports and the Transportation Security Administration. Many airports rely on surveillance beams and cameras to protect their perimeter. The problem
is, if nothing appears on the camera after the alarm goes off, you
cant just assume nothings there. Someone has to respond and
make sure no one is hiding from the camera.
A well-trained law enforcement officer with a well-trained patrol
dog can find and address that threat immediately without waiting
for backup.
On and after September 11, 2001, we used explosive dogs intensively to sweep airport terminals. The dogs were used to sweep for
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explosives in the morning before the terminal opened and in the
evening when the terminal closed. I saw a real surge in interest in
K9s capability after 9/11 as people realized dogs were effective in
crowded environments where their explosive screening abilities
were better in crowds than technology.
At Amtrak, trains are randomly swept for explosives before
boarding. We keep an explosive team present at the boarding gates
to provide a detection capability and immediate response.
I think a dog on a jetway at boarding would improve security at
no inconvenience to travelers, and would provide an elevated sense
of security. Dogs are very effective not only in detecting explosives,
but as a deterrent in many environments, any environment when
deployed properly.
Amtrak has many challenges as airport authorities, particularly
the need to secure open-space areas that intruders could use to
come into our property. We have been able to implement some new
procedures that could be used in airports. I have helped pioneer a
new application of K9 called vapor wake. Vapor wake is a dog
trained to smell the wake of explosives and material in the air
after a person passed by that area. Amtrak is working with Auburn
University and other agencies to develop this application, and other
agencies such as TSA are starting to use vapor wake K9 methods.
In closing, I would like to reiterate my position that a K9 program is an excellent investment for any agency that needs to secure high-traffic areas or facility perimeter, provided the program
is properly funded and supported with a strong infrastructure.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Parker follows:]
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Mr. PARKER. To this point, Ive brought two teams with me to
give a brief demonstration. After we conclude the demo, I will be
happy to answer any questions you might have. And thank you
again for this opportunity.
What you are going to see in this demo, sir, is thatI explained
to you about vapor wake technology. The dog will be able to detect
people that walk by. It is not intrusive. They will not stop anybodys path.
Youre going to see twofrom my right, your left, were going to
have people come through the door. As you see the dog is like pretending shes at a checkpoint. People are going to come in and the
dog is going to be able to detect who came in with something on
them. Were just waiting on a crowd of people. These are your staffers.
As you see, sir, the dog is not intrusively hurting anybody walking. As you see now, thats a hit. As you see, that person walked
by. The dog is walking. Stop decoy. As you see, this is a response
that the dog would give. And thats a person, and this individual
has ankle weights on that has explosives on his ankle. So you can
look at him physically and not see anything, but he has about 5
pounds of explosives on his ankle.
Could you show the committee, sir? And in that is smokeless
powder.
All right. The second demonstration were going to giveokay.
You can move. The second demonstration were going to give is,
like I say, when a person passes through an area. Thats Levi, our
chocolate Lab.
As a person passes through an area, youll see a person walking
through your room right there, over there to your left. Shes going
to walk and sit down. Were going to have a dog come through that
same area. That person has already sat down. That dog is going
to come in and follow the scent where the person walked to and
determine where shes located at. Theyre just trying to give it a
little bit of time because in theory, its been known that somebody
could walk through the area, and 15 minutes after they have
passed through, the dog could still pick that up. And thats a scientific fact thats already been noted.
And thats Zeta coming in. Good girl. Lets give the dogs and
handlers applause, sir.
Again, I want to thank you for this opportunity, and any questions you may have.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. Very impressive. Appreciate it.
Im now going to recognize myself for 5 minutes as we move the
questioning. And well go from there.
I want to start with Mr. Sammon here and the GAO. The GAO
in the report thats released out today, its dated today, on page 12
and 13, it says, Our analysis of TSA data show that from fiscal
year 2004 through July 1, 2011, TSA conducted JVAs, or joint vulnerability assessments, at about 17 percent of TSA-regulated airports that existed at the time, thus leaving about 83 percent of airports unassessed. How can that be?
In 2009, September 2009, there was a report issued saying that
87 percent of the airports havent been assessed. And over that
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timeframe weve now only moved that number to 17 percent assessment?
Mr. SAMMON. The joint vulnerability assessments are done in
concert with the FBI. They are donetheyre extensive assessments. They are done in a limited number of locations, but every
single commercial airport receives an annual security assessment.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. But wait, wait. Why arent there 100 percent
JVAs done, joint vulnerability assessments? Is the goal not to get
to 100 percent?
Mr. SAMMON. TSA does complete security assessments, including
the perimeter of all airports every year. Includingweve done
27,000 inspections.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Im asking about the joint vulnerability. I recognize theyre different assessments.
Mr. SAMMON. There are different assessments, and its a different assessment.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. What is your goal? Do you have the goal of getting to 100 percent? Yes or no?
Mr. SAMMON. We will not get to 100 percent of 450 airports with
the FBI every year, no.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Not even every year. At some point. I mean
okay. Mr. Lord, youve looked into this. What were your findings
in this particular area?
Mr. LORD. When we first looked at it, the number was actually
13 percent. And that was from the 20042008 timeframe. And we
asked TSA for some updated analysis. So the numbers have actually gone up. Its now 17 percent. These are very intensive examinations focused on high-risk airports, and TSA considers them the
gold standard. They obviously conduct a whole host of other activities and inspections and testing. I mean, theres quite a few things
they do. But you know, we thought this was worthwhile to single
out, given the significance. We do recognize, you know, theyre difficult to do quickly and you have to get the FBI involved. So it is
a lot.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. What I dont understand is, given the imperative,
given the knowledge and understanding that were only as strong
as the weakest link, and it may be that small airport, as we saw
on 9/11 when that person got on a plane, not at one of the major,
major airports initially, and got into the system, got behind the security line. Why is the TSA not demanding and working toward
getting to 100 percent? I dont understand. Theres 457 airports.
Why arent 457 airports getting this JVA done?
Mr. SAMMON. This level assessment will be done with a limited
number of airports. Not all airports will be done. They will have
inspections and they will have a complete assessment every year.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. I just, I absolutely dont understand that. I dont
understand. I think its unacceptable. Let me move on.
Mr. Orr, in your testimony, you said that the TSA has yet to approve this airport security program. I think you said in your testimony, We have been trying to get revisions to our approval for
about a year now. Can you explain that a little bit more, please?
Mr. ORR. Yes, sir. Were required to amend our security plan
anytime theres a change in our security procedures. And we submitted an amendment to the local Federal Security Director over
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a year ago; heard nothing for 6 or 7 months; got comment, addressed that comment. It again lay idle for a couple of months. And
then our assistant security director that we had been working with
disappeared and a new one appeared. And then the process started
all over.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Mr. Sammon, do you care to respond to that?
Mr. SAMMON. Yes. As I understand, the request to rewrite, to
change theamend the security planwas in progress, was initiated about a year ago. There was a joint vulnerability assessment
with the FBI conducted in the fall of 2010. Its my understanding
I dont know this personallybut its my understanding the parties
agreed to lets hold off on completing the rewriting of the airport
security plan until we understand the results of the joint vulnerability assessment.
Now, the joint vulnerability assessment, in terms of its analysis
of perimeter security, was not particularly flattering. And so in
terms of where the amendment is, in terms of rewriting it, I think
both parties agreed
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Well, it sounds like hes been waiting for a year.
Do you dispute that?
Mr. SAMMON. Both parties agreed to wait untilsomething you
brought up last time is the joint vulnerability assessment, and that
was an input. That should be very insightful in terms of what you
do with your security plan.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Mr. Orr.
Mr. ORR. Weve had two joint vulnerability assessments, one in
2007 and one in 2010. At the conclusion of each one, we asked for
additional information; help us to understand what youre talking
about here, and in both cases have not received that. We submitted
our plan, our amendment. We heard nothing. We checked on it a
couple of times. They said it was in the works.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. And this is the frustration. Youre telling me that
you have no goal to get to 100 percent of joint vulnerability assessments on the 457 airports. You made improvement from 13 percent
to 17 percent. And then we have an airport where you have done
a JVA, a joint vulnerability assessment, and youre not getting the
responsiveness. These should be collaborative efforts. Youve got
people all across the country. Youre supposed to be the expert in
the middle. Thats my concern.
My time has expired. I now recognize the gentleman, Mr.
Tierney, from Massachusetts for 5 minutes.
Mr. TIERNEY. Thank you very much. Mr. Lord, this joint vulnerability assessment, whats your analysis of how likely it is that 100
percent of the airports could undergo that particular scrutiny every
year?
Mr. LORD. Well, we dont think that it would be appropriate to
do every year, but perhaps on a rolling basis. Thats how they do
now. They have a target within a 3-year timeframe, they try to
focus, you know, complete JVAs on the high-risk airports. Its a
matter of resources but obviously theyre expensive and you need
to get the FBIs cooperation.
Mr. TIERNEY. Currently theyre on a 3-year rolling plan to do 100
percent of the high-risk airports within that timeframe.
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Mr. LORD. That would be difficult to achieve under the current
process. I would defer to Mr. Sammon on that. He would know
more about that.
Mr. TIERNEY. But its your understanding that thats the plan.
Mr. LORD. Its not the plan. As Mr. Sammon stated, the current
goal is not to do 100 percent. My point is they do them on a rolling
3-year basis.
Mr. TIERNEY. So Mr. Sammon, how many of those high-risk airports would be done on the rolling 3-year basis?
Mr. SAMMON. Id have to get back to our operations people and
get you an answer. Im sure wed be happy to respond to the committee on that.
Mr. TIERNEY. Would it be close to 100 percent? Would it be 50
percent? Would it be 25 percent?
Mr. SAMMON. I would have to check with the FBI. We need FBI
cooperation. Its not a TSA event. Getting FBI resources, review of
the project, sign-off, and so on and so forth; its not a TSAwe
dont run this thing by ourselves.
Mr. TIERNEY. Okay. Mr. Sammon, let mewhat we were talking
about, the Screening Passenger Observation Techniques program,
the SPOT program, can you differentiate that from the usual type
of random search?
Mr. SAMMON. Yes. Essentially I think your other witness on the
panel, Mr. Ron, is an expert in this. But what youre looking for
are microfacial anomalies in terms of the way people are behaving,
particularly the kinds of facial movements they have as they approach the checkpoint. These SPOT programs resulted in more
than 2,000 arrests since 2006, again, for people who had perhaps
criminal and other kinds of fraudulent other illegal activities that
they were engaged in.
But the science is based upon microfacial anomalies and the way
that people look, and thats what theyre trained to. So its more
than random. Youre looking for people. Youre looking at the
crowd, looking for people who have, in that context, somewhat aberrant looks.
Mr. TIERNEY. Mr. Ron, were about a billion dollars into this, or
three-quarters of a billion dollars into a quarter we didnt ask for.
Is that worth the money?
Mr. RON. Yes. I think that the investment in the behavior observation certainly makes sense because all the rest of what we are
doing is very much limited to the detection of items. And I think
10 years after 9/11, with the attempted attacks that we had during
this period of time, we reached the conclusion that we need to
spend more attention on people rather than just on items. And observing behavior is one of the basic tools that can be used at the
airport, but obviously it is only one single tool in a much wider and
more complex strategy.
Mr. TIERNEY. What kind of technology is involved in the SPOT
program?
Mr. RON. Well, it depends on the way you define technology. If
were looking at technology from the point of view of machines that
are involved, or computers that are involved in the process. This
is not a highly technological process. This is more a human-based
process. But theres certainly room to expand that into the techno-
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logical area by use of surveillance technology, and I mean smart
surveillance technology, not just cameras out there, but those that
can identify certain types of events or behavior and may help us
respond to it in real time.
Mr. TIERNEY. So at the granular level, it could be done just with
trained human beings exercising the process thats involved.
Mr. RON. Well, right now it is mostly training human beings,
yes.
Mr. TIERNEY. Well, I would imagine when you start getting remote possibilities in there and technology for that, the cost would
be enormous when youre talking about all the airports that are
around.
Mr. RON. Yes, this is correct.
Mr. TIERNEY. Mr. Orr, I just want to, just real quickly, you
talked about having the local entity be able to opt out of TSA on
that. And if your organization did that, would you be willing to
take the full responsibility and liability for failures to succeed?
Mr. ORR. Yes, sir. I have that anyway.
Mr. TIERNEY. All right. Good. I yield back.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. I now recognize the chairman of the
Transportation Committee, Mr. Mica of Florida.
Mr. MICA. Thank you. Mr. Sammon, you had as of last week, my
figures are you had 3,905 people in Washington, supposedly working for TSA, and 27 percent of them were in a supervisory or an
an administrative capacity, making on average, all of them, over
$104,000.
How many of those folks were dedicated to doing the vulnerability assessments that weve been talking about here?
Mr. SAMMON. In terms of the vulnerability assessment, I would
say a limited number. But we can get you the numbers.
Mr. MICA. How many?
Mr. SAMMON. I dont know, sir.
Mr. MICA. A dozen, half a dozen?
Mr. SAMMON. Id have to get back to you. Id like to give you a
truthful answer.
Mr. MICA. Next you have 9,656 administrative personnel out in
the field. How many of those folks are involved in the vulnerability
assessment? Those are administrative people, not screeners.
Mr. SAMMON. I would have to give you the same answer in terms
of responding to the committee.
Mr. MICA. And they are having trouble getting back with people
like Mr. Orr I see because the FBI and other agencies dont cooperate. That is your explanation today?
Mr. SAMMON. No, sir. In terms of the ASP, I will look into it. I
am not personally familiar
Mr. MICA. You couldnt possibly have an FSD or some of the people who are making over $100,000, and maybe you could get for the
record the number of people that are making over $100,000.
At Mr. Orrs airport, none of those people could check off on a
security plan to protect the perimeter of the Charlotte Airport.
Have you set the protocols and standards in Washington?
Mr. SAMMON. The plan is worked out locally with the airport director and the FSD. And it is approved through Washington.
Mr. MICA. But it takes 6 months to even get a response.
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Mr. SAMMON. I think the JVA
Mr. MICA. Cant you understand their frustration? The other
thing, Mr. Orr, too, if anyone contacts you and there is any intimidation after your testifying here today, or any indication that they
are giving you a hard time in any way, I want you to let this committee know immediately.
Mr. ORR. Yes, sir.
Mr. MICA. I have seen the way these people operate, the intimidation. I mean, youre pretty brave to be with us today. What is
the current most serious risk that we face?
Mr. SAMMON. I think right now in terms of non-metallic explosives on airplanes coming in from overseas.
Mr. MICA. Okay. That is a good point. Actually, Mr. Pistole said
that way back in November 2010, that we were in the risk management business, being a risk-based intelligence organization. That is
what he is trying to achieve and I support that goal.
Do we have a plan from TSA that you could share with us to
move toward that?
Mr. SAMMON. I dont have a plan today, but I would recommend
the committee work with Administrator Pistole. His number
two
Mr. MICA. Can you provide us with an update from him on where
you gowhere you are going with that risk-based plan?
Mr. SAMMON. I will tell you that he is working on a number of
alternatives and he hopes to announce something soon this summer.
Mr. MICA. But we are looking forward to that. And you mentioned that most of the risk is coming in from out of the United
States. For example, Orly was the shoe bomber, Mr. Reid. Amsterdam, the diaper. Christmas Day bomber, the London liquid, the
Yemen toner. The last count I hadwell, we had under 100 TSA
personnel overseas. It was really 54 when I checked. Do you know
what the number is now?
Mr. SAMMON. I dont know off the top of my head.
Mr. MICA. Do you know if you had contact with the Secretary of
State and others in trying to increase the presence of TSA overseas?
Mr. SAMMON. We work with overseas countries. We have
people
Mr. MICA. Would you provide the latest contacts with the Department of State and others to the committee onbecause you
said the threat is coming from there.
Now, whole body imaging equipment, which we spent a half a
billion dollars on and the deployment ofI mean, we are probably
in the billion-dollar range.
At this March 16th hearing, I asked the question: We know that
terrorists are moving to body-cavity inserts with surgical implants.
Does the whole body imaging equipment direct this kind ofcan it
detect this kind of threat? The answer from all of them, the experts, was that it does not.
Mr. SAMMON. It will depend. And I cant discuss it in this setting.
It is classified. I would be happy to have a classified update.
Mr. MICA. They said that it did not. Now, we have known since
this is a BBC news releasethat from 2009, September 2009, that
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terrorists were now moving. In fact, they used a bomb on a terrorist implant and it blew up in front of a Saudi prince, killed himself. I mentioned this back inwhat is the date? March. And that
appears to be a threat, that they are moving.
Obviously they have gone from shoes, to diaper, to liquid, to cartridges. Wouldnt you say that it looks like the body implant might
be a way to go?
Mr. SAMMON. I dispute that BBC report. But again, I cant discuss it in here. We could do it in a classified setting.
Mr. MICA. There is no dispute. He blew the crap out of the guy.
Mr. SAMMON. SirI will be happy to discuss it in a classified setting.
Mr. MICA. Well, in any eventand I mention thisand it was
also mentioned that the equipment we spent a billion dollars on
cant do anything about it. And TSA finally gets to July 6th, gets
recently briefed air carriers and foreign partners to provide greater
insights into intelligence indicating get you interested. There is terrorists to target aviation. And they name specifically the threat of
body implants as a threat. Is that something you issue?
Mr. SAMMON. I would be happy to discuss the specifics of that
in a classified setting, sir.
Mr. MICA. I mean, you cant tell me that you
Mr. SAMMON. We have spoken with the airlines and talked to
them about security procedures, yes, sir.
Mr. MICA. Did it take you to July to finally tell them, or did you
tell them that this might pose a threat before then?
Mr. SAMMON. We have been working on non-metallic threats for
the airlines for a considerable period of time. And this specific
threat was based on specific intelligence that was put together
Mr. MICA. And most of the testing of that equipment, both by
this committeedirected by GAO has been unsuccessful both in reports that have been published and also in GAO reports that also
look at your backup system, which is the SPOT program, which
they termed almost a total failure
Mr. SAMMON. I think Mr. Ron
Mr. MICA [continuing]. In addressing this risk.
Mr. SAMMON. I totally disagree with you, in terms of what you
are looking for are other alternatives to get around technology as
people tend to try to design
Mr. MICA. Are you aware of the hearing that was conducted by
the Science and Technology Committee where Mr. Broun from
Georgia, the chairman, questioned the usethe current application
of standoff behavior detection, which you employ now, versus the
active questioning, which is done under the Israeli system?
Mr. SAMMON. I think they are both very good.
Mr. MICA. Well, theeveryone who testified, every expert said
that the TSA current procedure is a total failure and they further
validated the findings of GAO.
Mr. SAMMON. Im not familiar with the witnesses.
Mr. MICA. Again, I had the opportunity 2 weeks ago to be in Tel
Aviv at Ben-Gurion Airport to see how it was done. And it can be
done on an interactive basis, even with a large population, if we
go to risk-based rather than hassling innocent Americans, veterans, military, children and people who pose absolutely no risk.
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I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. SAMMON. So I would encourage you to speak, to work with
Administrator Pistole. Thank you.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. We try. You know, we try to get the senior most
people to come before this committee and they refuse. And that is
one of the great frustrations. That is no surprise to the TSA. I
would love to work with them, love to work with them. But that
doesnt happen. That is the frustration of the committee.
Mr. MICA. Mr. Chairman, if they continue just toa point of procedure. I would be willing and I will advocate that we do subpoena
the appropriate personnel. They send us people like this who cannot provide us with the information. This is the chief investigative
committee of the U.S. House of Representatives. And they are
going to appear one way or the other or cooperate one way or the
other. And I put them on notice again today.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. I now recognize the gentleman from Texas, Mr.
Farenthold, for 5 minutes.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Sitting
on committees that have the most jurisdiction over the TSA, I sit
on this committee, Mr. Micas Transportation and Infrastructure
Committee, and the Homeland Security Committee. These are
issues that deeply concern me in my work with Congress and I am
happy you all are here. Im happy to be able to discuss this again.
And Im probably the recipientI have gotten more TSA patdowns since I have been in Congress than I have gotten pat-downs
from my wife. Since the topic of this is perimeter security, I wanted
to start with that, Mr. Sammon.
To what degree does the TSA coordinate with the FAA, for instance, on spending on airport security? I know in Corpus Christi
we recently got about $5 million from the FAA to improve security.
But has there been any action with the TSA in determining where
the multiple dollars are best spent?
Mr. SAMMON. I think that issince the GAO report you have
seen come out, a number of things we have been working for several years to address the specific issue youre talking about. First
of all, we worked with the airport community to come up with recommended design guidelines for airport planning and construction.
A lot of the money the airports use for planning and construction
comes from the FAA.
Next we worked with the Homeland Security Institute to develop
a best practices from all of the airports.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Im sorry. I have a real short amount of time.
But you are saying youre now working regularly with the other
agencies to make sure the right hand knows what the left hand,
the government, is doing?
Mr. SAMMON. What we are doing is working with the airports.
They have a tool. It is a specific computer program they can run
through their system. The idea is for the FSEs to work with the
airports to come up with the optimal security spending per airport.
It is not the same everywhere.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Okay. And we talk about high-risk airports.
What is not a high-risk airport when I can get on a commuter jet
at any airport in the country and end up at a hub airport and be
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on the biggest airliner in the world? What would not constitute a
critical airport?
Mr. SAMMON. I agree with you 100 percent. The report we got in
terms of the 700 innovative measures came from airports as small
as Asheville, from the airports such as Delta County, Minot. So it
is a mixture of big airports and small airports that have gotten into
best practices in terms of what are the kinds of things that are appropriate for each airport.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. All right.
Again, let me go on to Mr. Orr. I apologize for jumping around.
I have a lot of questions and a limited amount of time. Youre talking about spending on, for instance, baggage screening equipment.
I will just speak from experience. The airport I use most is the Corpus Christi Airport. We have 3 airlines, American and Continental
with small regional jets, and Southwest with 737s. Each individual
airline has a screening machine staffed by two TSA agents. We
bought three machines for the Corpus Christi Airport and there is
probably a fourth one because Delta used to come in there.
Why couldnt there just be one and a couple of TSA agents?
There are never that many people there. Why are wedo we have
any clue why we are spending multiple
Mr. LORD. That is a great question. TSA has an electronic baggage screening program which they are trying to move to what
they term optimal solutions for each airport. And essentially
what that means is in many cases they are trying to remove the
stand-alone machines and use more efficient systems or even socalled in-line systems, which require less personnel to operate. Im
not sure if that particular airport is on track to get an in-line system.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. All right.
And let me go to Mr. Ron for a second. One of theone of the
things I hear consistently from my constituentstry saying that
three times fastis why dont we follow more of the Israeli model
of dealing with people instead of things? The answer I have gotten
from a lot of people within our government is Israel only has a couple of airports and not nearly the amount of traffic that we have.
Could we implement the Israeli system for a reasonable cost in the
United States?
Mr. RON. Well, first I would like to say that the Israeli solution
is not really an issue when it comes to volume. And I dont think
that this is the main consideration. I think that the main consideration is that the Israeli legal culture, the environment is very different from the American one, and therefore I would not recommend to adopt the Israeli model as is.
But at the same time I strongly recommend that the concept that
is driving the Israeli solution, which is identifying the level of risk
of individual passengers and responding to them with a comparable
level of search and an interview, as necessary, is the right way.
And I think that an American solution that would be more comparable to the American environment can and should be developed
and implemented.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Thank you very much. I am out of time. Im
hopeful we will have a second round of questioning because I have
at least 5 minutes more. Mr. Chairman, thank you.
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Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman from
Arizona, Mr. Gosar, for 5 minutes.
Mr. GOSAR. Thank you. Inspector Parker, you know, we have
spentwe have deployed 500 advanced imaging technology devices,
spent $121$122 million on the advanced imaging technology. We
have also spent another $30 million on the puffer machines that
shoot air blasts at passengers and sniff for explosives, but they
rarely work properly.
Tell me what the end return on investment of dogs is. I mean,
I see some problems with this, because you have to move everybody
through these technologies, but that animal moves. It covers a wide
range of ground. So tell me what the return on investment is.
Mr. PARKER. The return on it, sir, is mobility. You dont have to
spend money to integrate any new odor to it because a dog is a little bit better than machinery, because technologywe can introduce odor that you come out anything new to a dog, and in 2 or
3 weeks they are proficient at it, as long as you keep that proficiency up.
Like I say, you can take the dog to an area, versus you have to
bring people to an area, as you say. And it gives a lot of people
more sense of security when they see a dog and especially when
they can see a dog working. As you saw, the dog was standing
there, people walk through. And we do it at Amtrak all the time.
People come out on the Acela with that dog at the boarding gate
and people are happy to see him and it is not intrusive and the dog
is working. And who dont like dogs?
Mr. GOSAR. The person who doesnt like dogs I dont want to
know. Tell me the average lifetime of an active K9.
Mr. PARKER. Without any medical problems, we get a dog at a
year old. I like to have the dog work until they are about 7 or 8
years old, because after the first 2 years or so, that is when the
dog really gets into its prime again if he is well trained and proficient training is there. So you will get a good 5 years, without
adding any software to him or getting a new breed because something else then came out. We just add it to a dog. We just add it
to a scent pitcher and that is another odor that he is able to detect
and perform.
Mr. GOSAR. You know, Im a businessman, so tell me what the
cost of that K9 cost is.
Mr. PARKER. Well, it aint the same cost as technology, sir.
Mr. GOSAR. Interesting. Would you say a little bit or a lot less?
Mr. PARKER. A lot less. And you have to understand dogs, like
I say, dont depreciate. If anything, they go up more in value and
they will be more effective when they get all of the training that
they need.
Mr. GOSAR. Now, they are also very keen about detecting behavior, are they not?
Mr. PARKER. Yes, sir. And that is why the vapor wake dogs are
very important right now, because they can screen people without
them even being known. If you come to Amtrak, we do it all the
time. And I know you know about the rush that comes through our
gates. And these dogs screen people, and they keep on going without even being aware they are being searched.
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Mr. GOSAR. Can they detect an implant, a bodily implanted device?
Mr. PARKER. Well, sir, scientifically right now, there is no data
that says the dog can or cannot. But given the schematics of a persons body and, you know, dogs can detect cancer on peoples bodies, tumors, the dogs can detect anything that they are taught. I
think if the dog is taught to do that, he would be a very real good
asset for that.
Mr. GOSAR. They are very innate about picking up differences in
how people, as you said earlier. One of the biggest things, Mr.
Sammon, I have seen in my limited time on the Hill is
uncoordination of coordination. In fact, I had to put a bill just to
break down jurisdictional boundaries of two different agencies. So
it seems to me like the biggest problem that we have here is tell
me who the lead is in all of this. Who is the kingpin? Who actually
dictates how all surveillance or a perimeter security should be dictated?
Mr. SAMMON. As I said in my opening point, the airportevery
airport has a plan. The airport is responsible for executing a plan
with their people and
Mr. GOSAR. Im going to interrupt you again. Who is ultimately
that is not it. Is it Homeland Security? Who oversees the whole
process of these whole aspects of a perimeter surveillance?
Mr. SAMMON. TSA oversees the plan and inspects the plan.
Mr. GOSAR. Okay. So you have the jurisdiction to do so?
Mr. SAMMON. We canif there are deficiencies in the plan, we
can levy fines of civil penalties, yes, sir.
Mr. GOSAR. So it seems to me that you could ante up all agencies
to say, on a timely basis, that you do this. I mean, I have seen it.
And just to give you a quick example, I have seen a flood, and I
have seen an agency head from the Forest Service make sure that
everybody is lined up in time, in real perspective, without delays.
I have seen it happen. So I know it can happen. So it seems to me
like the buck stops with you, then.
Mr. SAMMON. So, again, what we want to doand I think one
of the things thatwith GAO, is a comprehensive look at what
Mr. GOSAR. Im very aware of what government does. It studies
and studies and studies. And by the time you get a study out, it
is antiquated. It seems like there shouldwait a minute. It seems
like there should be a minimum standard that is equating all the
way across the board. And it seems like we are missing the point,
because I think we need to be using Mr. Ron and Inspector Parkers ideas within this, because we have to have some minimal
standards.
And Im also from Arizona and so I know that those numbers are
not right. I suspect thatwell, just to give you a quick example.
We are talking about those that you know about, security breaches.
They are not the ones that youre not talking about, that you dont
know anything about. And you cant tell me that those dont occur.
We sit on the border and we are saying that we apprehend one in
about every four.
I hope those arent the same kind of numbers here. Because from
what we have had in previous testimony, there is a lot of people
carrying badges out there that we dont have any recollection of
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and who they are and background. Seriously. That was brought up
in this committee.
Mr. SAMMON. What you have is under about 850,000 people who
have criminal history background checks and terrorist watch list
checks in addition to other checks.
Mr. GOSAR. And it is inadequate. That is becauseI can point
to you that we take a grandmother and strip her down who is
because it must be the grimacing that she is going through terminal cancerand that we also have another foreign national that
gets through with an invalid visa. The problem is that theres problems with that aspect because we are not nimble enough and we
are not working at associating with local and regional communities
better. And that needs to stop. Im out of time, sir.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Mr. Sammon, if you wanted to
Mr. SAMMON. No, no. I thinkagain, this effortthe tool which
basically allows every airport, in conjunction with the Federal Security Director, to do that evaluation of what their vulnerabilities
are, because they are unique, there isnt one standard that applies
across the whole country. But you take those standards, apply
them based upon the vulnerabilities, the attack scenarios that are
possible at that airport, so on and so forth, for each airport to come
up with an optimal solution so that every dollar that they have
that they can apply to security, they do it in the optimal way, the
best way, the best bang for the buck for that particular airport
that tool exists. It is done in collaboration with the airports and the
airport authorities.
We had over 100 airports apply. Charlotte was not one of them.
Charlotte is not particularly active in AAAE, which is a national
organization which has security committees. They are not active in
ACI, which is a national airport organization that has security
committees. So of all of the people that worked on this, Charlottes
name is not in there. So there are people who are working on this.
As a matter of fact on Monday, I had the CEO of Dallas/Fort
Worth Airport fly in with his senior staff to sit down with John Pistole and our group to tell us that they are very happy working with
TSA, and what they wanted was to volunteer for any pilot security
projects that they could have that we would work with them on.
So in terms of how the relationship with airports and working
with local authorities, it may vary across the country, but there are
a lot of them who put a lot of work into all of these reports to get
a tool that will enable them to do the best, most optimal security
assessments and reports and ways forward for each of the airports.
Mr. GOSAR. Well, then it seems to me that you just told me that
you want a nimble approach. So maybe Charlotte needs a little different TLC and maybe thats what you need to look at, is that
youre giving an individualized plan, so make sure that youre elevating that to an individualistic plan as well. You know, be careful
what you ask for there. Okay?
Just because somebody is complyingto give you an example,
you know, as a teacher, a teacher only is asking you to repeat what
they want you to. It doesnt tell you about the knowledge about the
student. You have to go a little bit further sometimes, and that is
the exact case that Im looking at is that sometimes the squeaky
wheel is actually the one that is doing something a little bit dif-
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ferent that I want to know about. And I think that behooves you
at the top to understand what they are doing, why they are doing
it, as well as all the different other models.
Mr. SAMMON. And that is why what we did is go beyond compliance with this report to get the best innovative security measures
from airports around the country, because compliance is not sufficient.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. I agree. And we will probably have this ongoing
discussion, but the idea that you havent conducted joint vulnerability assessments in 83 percent of our Nations airports is not acceptable. It is just not acceptable. We need to figure out how to
solve that. And I appreciate the follow-up with that. As it relates
to Dallas, I would hope that Dallas would be the first ones in here.
They have had 20 perimeter security breaches in the last 5 years.
They had a truck that actually came out across the field, as I noted
in my opening statement. So there is a lot that needs to be done
on security with such a big airport such as Dallas, for instance.
Let me go back to the dogs here. My understanding of the dollars
and the metrics here,and, again, if we can correct the record here
as a follow-up, my understanding is it costs roughly about $175,000
per whole body imaging machine, but the dogs are something like
$20,000 to $30,000 to have a fully trained dog ready to go. Those
arent the numbers. Let us go ahead and correct the record. But I
am pretty darn sure those are the records.
But to Mr. Gosars point, the whole body imaging machines have
something that the dogs dont have. They have lobbyists. And what
is infuriating to a person like me is I think the challenge is we
have to increase the security. We have to become more secure. But
we cant give up every civil liberty. We shouldnt be looking at
every passenger naked in order to secure the airplane. What we do
need are these good dogs because the Pentagon, having spent $19
billion, came to the conclusion, as I pointed out with the lieutenant
colonels comments, the single best way to find a bomb-making device or bomb-making materials is the K9. And we are not putting
enough emphasis on expanding the use of K9s. They are friendly.
They are noninvasive. They are effective. They are the single best
weapon, according to the Pentagon, in order to fight and find these
explosive devices.
Mr. SAMMON. Would you like a response?
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Sure.
Mr. SAMMON. In terms of the dogs you saw here, the TSA supports the Amtrak program. In fact, we probably have supported up
to about a third of the dog teams that Amtrak has. The doga
fully equipped dog team with training, trainer, dog, so on and so
forth, is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars because you
dontthe dog doesntit does. You pay for the salary of the
trainer
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Per year?
Mr. SAMMON. Yes.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. You think that is per year? Hundreds of thousands of dollars? Hold up.
Inspector Parker, can you give me a sense of justwhat does a
dog handler make there at Amtrak? What is their annual salary?
Do you have a guess of generally what they are making?
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Mr. PARKER. It depends on their rank. They are probably at 50to 70,000.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. So how do you come up with hundreds of thousands of dollars? I mean, Alpo only costs so much.
Mr. SAMMON. We oversee the Transit Grant Program where we
provide dog teams to agencies around the country, and it is in excess of $100,000. We provide
Mr. CHAFFETZ. You said hundreds of thousands of dollars per
dog. I challenge youI challenge you to verify that number.
Mr. SAMMON. We will get you the numbers that we
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Will the gentleman yield?
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Yes.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Will the gentleman yield for just 1 second?
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Sure.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. I assume that your whole body imaging machines require an operator, too, that requires a salary as well. They
dontit actually in Corpus Christi requires at least two, actually
three, one to stop you going through, one to listen on the radio, and
the one in the back thatit requires three operators for a whole
body machine.
Mr. SAMMON. They all requirethey are all expensive systems.
They each have their role.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Youre suggesting that the whole body imaging
machine is a cheaper alternative than using the K9s. I tell you
what, lets do this. I would love to do this. I would love to do this.
You take 1,000 people and put them in a room, I will give you 10
whole body imagining machines. You give me 5,000 people in another room, you give me one of his dogs, and we will find that bomb
before you find your bomb.
That is the problem. There is a better, smarter, safer way to do
this. And the TSA is not prioritizing it. And if you look at who
those lobbyists were that pushed through those machines, they
should be ashamed of themselves, because there is a better way to
do this and it is with the K9s. And Im basing that based on what
the Pentagon did. Thats what the Pentagon did. They studied all
the technology, all the information; and that is what they are
doing, they are deployingyou dont see whole body imagining machines in Kandahar, but you do see dog teams because those guys,
their peopletheir lives are on the line every day. Thats what we
should be doing.
And you brought it up and I will challenge it. Let us go look at,
dollar for dollar, what is more expensive, a whole body imaging
machine, which we know is not effective, and a K9. Lets see who
can find more bombs and lets see who is less expensive. Lets move
on.
Mr. SAMMON. And the dog does not work all day. Thank you.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Inspector Parker, how long does the dog work?
Mr. SAMMON. The dogs will work 2 to 3 hours a day, sir. And you
take a break, and they work 2 to 3 hours more is how you condition
the dog to work.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Let us keep going because I really do believe that
the dogs are a better, smarter solution.
One of the challenges that the TSA is having to deal with is the
fact that we have over 900,000 security badges out there. My un-
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derstanding as I was told, there are roughly 16,000 just at Dulles
Airport alone. What sort of background checks are they going
through? How often are those rechecked? And how are you going
to deal with the fact that we have closing in on a million people
with security badges all across the airports?
Mr. SAMMON. There are probably 850,000 badges out there that
are active. They go through a criminal history background check.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Who does that check?
Mr. SAMMON. Thethat check isit goes through the airport authorities, AAAE to the FBI. Then they do a watch-list check, which
goes through AAAEs, right. Currently the channeling mechanism
goes through TSA. We run a watch-list check on them. They are
perpetually vetted from the watch-list basis.
In addition, there are other immigration checks on those people
versus when they originally apply. They are redone every 2 years.
And at that time, the security awareness training is required at
the time of the badge reissuance.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Do you have a plan to deal with the
vulnerabilities of an insider attack?
Mr. SAMMON. There are a number of things in terms of insider
attacks, in terms of the security awareness training.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. No, but Im saying is there an actual plan?
Mr. SAMMON. In terms ofwhat particular kind of attack?
Mr. CHAFFETZ. An insider attack.
Mr. SAMMON. Well, there are manyit can take many forms.
What kind are you thinking of?
Mr. CHAFFETZ. I just wonder if there is a plan to deal with the
fact that you have 900,000 people who are
Mr. SAMMON. Yes.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. You do. Mr. Lord, what is your understanding of
that situation?
Mr. LORD. Our commentary was related to the combined risk assessments, something called TSARA, the latest edition released
last year. A notable caveat was it excluded the threat of the insider
attack in various forms and TSA acknowledged it needed to look
at that. And the next iteration due later this year will include that
threat.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. But Mr. Sammon just said he already has it.
Mr. LORD. Well, Im not sure he meant it in terms of this one
analysis Im referring to. They may look at it in other forms or
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Is Mr. Lord wrong?
Mr. SAMMON. No. Two different things. Your question, as I took
it, is what goes on daily in an airport environment. The TSARA is
athe first of its kind across all modes risk comparison, based
upon 500in excess of 550 attack scenarios. Insider attack was not
part of the first one. It will be included in the second version.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. I look forward to seeing that. The 25,000 perimeter breaches, I would appreciateis thisit is very difficult to get
any sort of analysis of this over such a long period of time. Is there
a month-by-month analysis that you can share with us?
Mr. SAMMON. I dont have it with me. That is 2,500 a year. It
could be anything from a bag left behind, a door left open
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thats where we are hoping that the TSA can provide usintroduce some details and understanding where the
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trend is going. Is this an upward trend, downward trend? That sort
of thing. Is that something that you will provide the committee?
Mr. SAMMON. I will go back and we will check into that, yes, sir.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Yes, you will provide that to the committee?
Mr. SAMMON. In terms ofif it is security-sensitive material, we
will talk to the committee about that, yes.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. All right.
Let me keep going. The perimeter fence at the JFK Airport,
based on an investigative report done by a news organization, my
understanding is that the project to fix the perimeter fence is running 4 years behind schedule. What is your knowledge of that situation?
Mr. SAMMON. Im not personally aware of that. I do know that
JFK and the New York Port Authority Airports are looking at deploying state-of-the-art intrusion detection technology in addition to
fencing because of the kinds of things that people have talked
about. The fence can be cut. You want to have a technology tied
into camera systems that will alert cameras and patrols if there is
an intrusion.
We deploy extensively in the subway tunnels, intrusion detection
in key tunnels, and particularly underwater tunnels.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. I know. We are getting off topic here. Im worried
about the quarter mile of fence at JFK and it being 4 years behind
schedule.
Mr. SAMMON. I dont know right now, today, what the status is,
but well get back to you.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Please describe for the committee your role and
responsibility. What is your responsibility?
Mr. SAMMON. My responsibility is working with the various
stakeholders, the various people in pipelines, in mass transit, in
railroads, in highways, in air freight carriers generally
Mr. CHAFFETZ. So it is not exclusive to just airports?
Mr. SAMMON. No, sir.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. And would you say that JFK is one of the most
I mean, it has to be one of the largest targets out there.
Mr. SAMMON. JFK is.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. The committee would appreciate more understanding from their perspective of why this project is 4 years behind schedule. I understand there is a local component. But from
the TSA side, that would be much appreciated.
At Los Angeles International Airport, LAX, an airport official
noted that although the current 8-mile perimeter fence complies
with Federal regulations, that it has been built in stages of the
past decade, it has no one consistent security standard. Is there a
consistent security standard for perimeters?
Mr. SAMMON. The standard varies based upon the location of the
facility
Mr. CHAFFETZ. But it is not going to vary in an airport, right?
It may vary between LAX and Bozeman, Montana.
Mr. SAMMON. It may vary based upon where the location of the
airport is, what the surrounding geography is.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Are there standards for all those various components?
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Mr. SAMMON. Those standards are againwhat we have done
the work I showed the committee earlier today in terms of developing what thosefor each airport based upon their
vulnerabilities. But they do vary with an airport. Some parts
are
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Mr. Lord, what is your understanding of this situation?
Mr. LORD. I will have to defer to Mr. Sammon on that, whether
just standards vary within the actual airport. I dont have the
expertise
Mr. CHAFFETZ. In 2009, the Government Accountability Office
issued a report stating that TSA lacks, a unified national strategy. Where is that today?
Mr. LORD. Well, first of all, that is a great question. At the time
we did the work, we were concerned about the variety of players
involvedmultiple layered ports, multiple industry stakeholders
TSA had more of an indirect oversight role. And we thought it was
important to come up with an overall game plan to unify the current efforts. And it is our understanding that draft strategies currently have been included as a model annex to a document called
the TSIP, but that is currently under agency review. So they are
close to releasing it. We have not seen it yet.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. One more question and then I will recognize Mr.
Farenthold.
The software updates. As Inspector Parker pointed out, the hardware needs software, and that software needs updating. Some of
this software is as old as 1998, is my understanding based on what
I have read. Is that your understanding? And what is the agency
doing to update the software?
Mr. SAMMON. So as I understand theall new equipment being
purchased is being purchased at the 2010 standard, the 1998
standards are more stringent than anything in the world, and that
there is a plan to update, incrementally, machines that are out
there, in phases to the 2010 standard. That is my understanding.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Mr. Lord, do you care to comment on that?
Mr. LORD. I agree with that characterization.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. So are you prioritizing the 1998 machines? Is
there a
Mr. SAMMON. I will have to get back to you with the specific plan
to update those machines. I dont have that with me.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. All right. Let me go to Mr. Farenthold to be recognized.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity for a second round of questioning.
Again, I want to start with the actual topic thatwe have kind
of gone into a whole lot of areas here. Perimeter security. Once you
are within the perimeter of the airport, there is a real potential of
you being able to do some damage. What is being done to address
much more ease of access to the tarmac area from those involved
in general aviation as opposed to those in commercial aviation? For
instance, I drive into the general aviation area to board my friends
private plane, and then I wander over and sneak something on a
plane, a commercial plane.
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Mr. SAMMON. The first thing we have done, about 2 years ago,
required extending the badging requirements to people in general
aviation. That caused quite a fuss. There was a lot of pushback on
that.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. But now theres no photo IDs for a pilot to access his or her plane
Mr. SAMMON. If he is regularly on that airport, he has to have
a badge, yes, sir. Ifbased upon where it is. But if he has proximity to the tarmac, the commercial airportand this caused quite
a bit of ruckus I think back in 2008, when we extended the badging
requirements for larger populations within the airport
Mr. FARENTHOLD. But I dont need a badge to get onto the
tarmac in a general aviation area. I dont need anything.
Mr. SAMMON. You either have to be accompanied to your aircraft
back and forth or in and out of that facility. But ifyou can be
challenged, just as anyone else on the facility if you are there.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. All right. It seems likeagain, I am just
speaking from what appears to me to be common sense, that there
really ought to be a focus on the ground staff that doesnt go up
in the airplanes. The 9/11 box cutters were potentially put on the
plane by ground crew. The ground crew doesnt go up with the
plane, so their life isnt at risk in an attack. It seems like there
ought to be a strong focus there.
Mr. SAMMON. That is why they are all badged, and they have security awareness training. That is why there is covert testing of
thoseand random screening of people on the tarmac, yes, sir.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. All right. And let us talk a little bit about the
behavioral detection. You know, before I was elected to Congress,
I actually had time to watch TV and watch Lie to Me. Is this really
a science that works, or is it a pseudoscience? You mentioned that
we were able to apprehend hundreds of criminals. Have we seen
any positive results of that in apprehending anybody with contraband at the airport?
Mr. SAMMON. We did. I believe it was in Orlando several years
ago, a person had actually explosive material in his bags. He attempted to get them onto the belt. He was detected as he came
through the door by his behavior. He had not been screened. His
bags had not been screened. He was pulled over and found that he
hadwas attempting
Mr. FARENTHOLD. So we have gotten one. Mr. Lord, did you want
to comment?
Mr. LORD. You know, I would like to respectfully disagree with
Mr. Sammon on that. Im not sure he was detected through the
BDO program. He had such an unusual appearance, I think he
alarmed the passengers waiting in line, and a ticket agent may
have alerted locals. Im not sure that was truly a BDO behavior detection success.
Also, as I recall from reading his case file, he is an Iraqi war veteran suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and wasnt on
his medication.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Mr. Ron, would you like to comment on that?
I know the Israelis were pioneers in this.
Mr. RON. Yes. The Israelithe principle of behavior is part of a
wider principle of identifying level of risk of the individual pas-
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sengers, and it is also based on looking at other sources of information rather than just observation. So you have to look at it in that
context.
But I still have to say that the BDO program, despite the fact
that it has been noted that theyboth by GAO and the Academy
of Science, that there is no scientific support. But I need to say that
there has not been serious research into this. So that by itself
doesnt prove that it doesnt stand.
In empiric terms, I think that at least those airports here in the
United States that we have worked with on this issue, mostly with
local police officers, there has been a reasonable level of success in
detecting people with malicious intentions.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. Let me just ask you one more question, Mr.
Ron. If for some reason I were to become President tomorrow, and
I appointed you the head of the TSA, what are the top five changes
you would make to improve security and improve the efficiency of
the system? Can you list maybe five off the top of your head?
Mr. RON. Well, I will start with two. The first one is aI would
redirect the strategy toward a risk-basedreal risk-based strategy
that identifies the level of risk of the individual passenger by the
access to information that we have starting with, prior to his arrival, his or her arrival at the airport. And later on thewith the
ability to talk to those very few passengers that we find as highrisk passengers based on our earlier analysis and not just search
them, but also talk to them and interview them to a level that
would provide us with more information.
Mr. FARENTHOLD. It is really interesting. I did this just kind of
as a thought experiment and I will just give youI walkedI went
from Corpus Christi to Washington, DC, without saying anything
other than thank you to a person at the airport. That was it. No
interaction beyond saying thank you to people who helped me.
Mr. RON. This is a critical point because I think that the lack of
contact between the securitybetween the security people and the
passengers is one of our greatest shortcomings, because we just
focus on items, and that is doomed to failure because the technology that we have at this point is not good enough to provide us
with a reasonable level of detection.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. I now recognize Mr. Tierney.
Mr. TIERNEY. Thank you. Mr. Sammon, I just wanted to give you
an opportunity to make some comments with respect to that.
Mr. SAMMON. Again, I dont disagree with what Mr. Ron is saying. The first thing in terms of whatthe fundamental part is access to information; and that is the more information you have, the
more you know about people and you can saybecause most of the
people going to the airport on any given day are all trusted. I
mean, there is notthere is not athey are fine. They just want
to get on their way.
The challenge is to have information that differentiates people,
one group of people or individuals from the larger group, and getting that, as he said, that information prior to their arrival at the
airport. Right now we know, we know their name, we know their
date of birth, and we know kind of where they are coming from and
where they are going through. We cant, even through secure flight,
track where they have been for the past 3 years. So it isright
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now we are in the situation of looking at how do we do better riskbased security, but also what kind of information can you have access to to do a better job? And that is one of the challenges.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. Just some very quick things. The
committee would appreciate the opportunity, particularly with Mr.
Sammon here, to ask some additional questions. Would it be all
right that we submit those. I would ask all Members of the panel
some of them werent able to be here todayto submit those within
the next 7 days.
We would also appreciate the TSA providing us a copy of each
of the incident reports. I know it is a massive amount of paper, but
we would like to pour through those. And we would appreciate it
if you would provide those to us.
We would also like to have a briefing on this risk-based approach. It is something that you had offered earlier. I recognize
that it probably needs to be in a secure setting, but it is something
we would like to schedule and work out with the TSA, moving forward.
I would also appreciate some definitions, if you will, and some
specific statistics on the number of stowaways. It is something that
we have asked for. It is something that TSA has not yet provided
to us but this committee would appreciate those.
Of those things that I asked, is there any reason to think that
those things cant happen?
Mr. SAMMON. I will go back and check and make sure that
theythe status of those requests and where they are.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. And a couple of those are new. But
the stowaways was a previous request.
The last question here about transportation security inspectors
[TSIs], as its referred to in a lot of the documents. How many of
them are there? And I know that they can impose civil penalties.
So how many civil penalties have we imposed over the years? I
dont know what timeframe to ask, but
Mr. SAMMON. I think that would be a good request in terms of
what we have. I dont have data with me today, so it would merely
be conjecture on my part. But we could give you the total number
of inspectors that are out there and the number of penalties, the
number of open cases. Also we do it in terms of findings. In some
cases the airport, on the spot, resolves the issue. In other cases
they do go to civil violations and civil fines and that kind of thing.
But I think it would be good to get you a good breakout on that
that is concise and accurate.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. We would appreciate that.
As we conclude here, I would like to give you just each a moment. Please, brief. But well start with you, Mr. Sammon, and
kind of go down the line.
What is the kind of number one thing you would like to see happen, whether it is your biggest concern or what specifically you
would like to see happen? And then we will close the hearing.
Mr. SAMMON. Again, with the committee and all committees in
Congress, is to support and work with Administrator Pistole as he
goes forward with the risk-based security. He is definitely focused
in that direction. And it is going to takethere are going to be
challenges as we referred to in terms of information: How do we
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go forward? But he definitely is going in this direction. And I would
say to give him the benefit of the doubt and work with him in
terms of where he is trying to go.
Mr. LORD. I would just like to say on behalf of GAO, we stand
ready to support the committees efforts to oversee TSAs effort to
move to more of risk-based approach. I agree with Mr. Ron; we
need to spend more time worrying about dangerous people versus
dangerous objects and theres various ways to do it. And we need
to do it in a way that makes sense.
Mr. ORR. I would like to note that both of our joint vulnerability
assessments noted no compliance issues. We were in full compliance with all of the regulations. What I would like to see is a collaborative partnership between us and the TSA to address the real
issues.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. Mr. Ron.
Mr. RON. Beyond the need for a better risk-based approach to
passenger and bag screening, I would strongly recommend to create
a better balance between the airport facility security and the passenger and bag screening operation, because right now we are
spending most of our efforts on the front door when the back door
is not secure at all.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. Inspector Parker.
Mr. PARKER. Yes, sir. Thank you.
I would like to see continued support for the K9 programs because, as I stated before, that Amtrak is doing a lot and we definitely appreciate what Congress has done for us to fund us.
Mr. CHAFFETZ. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. I appreciate it. It takes a lot of time and effort in preparation of your testimony and for you being here today. We do appreciate it. And thank
you and I wish you the best.
Our mutual goal on both sides of the aisle is to make this country as safe and secure as possible, but at the same time we need
to make sure that we are filling those gaps and asking the hard
questions. That is what makes this country great, is our ability and
opportunity to do that.
So, again, I appreciate you all being here. The committee stands
adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:16 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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TSA OVERSIGHT PART 2: AIRPORT PERIMETER

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY,

Serial No. 11275

For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office

12:33 Jan 24, 2012

COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM

LAWRENCE J. BRADY, Staff Director

NATIONAL SECURITY, HOMELAND DEFENSE

JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah, Chairman

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Hearing held on July 13, 2011 ...............................................................................

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TSA OVERSIGHT PART 2: AIRPORT

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Mr. LORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Tierney

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Mr. ORR. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, my

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