Senate Hearing, 112TH Congress - The Homeland Security Department's Budget Submission For Fiscal Year 2012
Senate Hearing, 112TH Congress - The Homeland Security Department's Budget Submission For Fiscal Year 2012
Senate Hearing, 112TH Congress - The Homeland Security Department's Budget Submission For Fiscal Year 2012
112196
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
HOMELAND SECURITY AND
GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
OF THE
(
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON
66623 PDF
2012
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(II)
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CONTENTS
Opening statements:
Senator Lieberman ...........................................................................................
Senator Collins .................................................................................................
Senator Landrieu ..............................................................................................
Senator McCain ................................................................................................
Senator Johnson ...............................................................................................
Senator Tester ..................................................................................................
Senator Portman ..............................................................................................
Senator Akaka ..................................................................................................
Senator McCaskill ............................................................................................
Prepared statements:
Senator Lieberman ...........................................................................................
Senator Collins .................................................................................................
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WITNESS
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2011
Hon. Janet A. Napolitano, Secretary, U.S. Department of Homeland Security:
Testimony ..........................................................................................................
Prepared statement ..........................................................................................
Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record .....................................
4
38
49
APPENDIX
Department of Homeland Security Budget-in-Brief, Fiscal Year 2012 ...............
129
(III)
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U.S. SENATE,
ON HOMELAND SECURITY
AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS,
COMMITTEE
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:39 p.m., in room
SD342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph I. Lieberman, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senators Lieberman, Akaka, Landrieu, McCaskill, Tester, Collins, McCain, Johnson, and Portman.
OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN LIEBERMAN
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September 11, 2001, and I would like to talk to you during the
question-and-answer period about that.
But to get to the bottom line here, the Presidents budget request
for fiscal year 2012 asks for $43.2 billion in net discretionary funding. That is an increase of 1.5 percent from the current level of
funding, and it is a decrease of 0.8 percent from the Departments
request for fiscal year 2011.
Given the enormous deficits and national debt that we are struggling with today, it seems to me, generally speaking, that the
Presidents budget request for the Department of Homeland Security is responsible and it is fair. It does not include everything I
would have wanted in the best of times, but I appreciate that we
are not living in the best of times economically, and that the President and you have had to make some tough decisions in putting
the budget together.
I do want to say I was pleased that the budget request does put
additional resources into critical mission areas, such as terrorist
travel security and cybersecurity, and I think those are the right
priorities.
I also want to express my appreciation for the fact that the budget funds these increases and a few other programmatic increases
by cutting administrative costs by $800 million, including a significant and, from my perspective, welcome reduction in personal services contracts. That is just about the best way to fund some of the
critical needs for extra support in the budget, which is to say by
finding economies within your own budget. And you have also identified selected programmatic decreases across the Department, as
you must in tough times.
There are some reductions which I am sure trouble other Members of the Committee, as they do me, and we will undoubtedly talk
about them with you. The Federal Emergency Management Agency
(FEMA) takes a hit in its operating budget. There are some cuts
in the program of Federal grants for local fire departments, which
have a lot of support here in Congress. But, overall, I repeat what
I said at the beginning, in a tough time for our Federal Government with probably the major focus that all of us have, as you can
see from the day-to-day developments around here: How do we
bring Federal spending back into balance with revenues? I think
this is a fair and responsible budget. I almost said fair and balanced, but I got worried that it would be confused with other activities in Washington.
So I look forward to your testimony and, of course, to continuing
to work with you in this session Congress, as we very productively
in the last one, to ensure that the Department of Homeland Security has the resources and the authority it needs to carry out its
critical mission on our behalf.
Senator Collins.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS
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Senator COLLINS. First, Mr. Chairman, let me associate myself
with your comments about the two ICE agents, one of whom was
killed, and the other wounded. It does remind us of the tremendous
risks that law enforcement officials at every level of government
faceparticularly since we are here today with the Department of
Homeland Security, we want to recognize those efforts, law enforcement at every level makes on our behalf of us each and every day.
When Congress and the Administration formulate the budget for
this country, we are in essence establishing our national priorities.
Controlling spending, reducing our ruinous level of debt, and funding highly effective programs to protect our Nation are among
those priorities.
Many of us are disappointed in the Presidents budget. We believe that it does far too little to rein in spending to bring the Federal debt under control. It spends and borrows too much. It will
lead to a record $1.6 trillion deficit in the next fiscal year. It would
double the publicly held debt by the year 2013 and triple it by
2020. That is simply not sustainable and puts our Nation on a ruinous fiscal course.
Today we are gathered to review one component of that budget:
The proposal for the Department of Homeland Security. Protecting
our Nation and our citizens is not just a line item. It has to be a
top priority. In fact, I think most people would agree that the number one responsibility of a government is the protection of its citizens. With tight budgets, we must work together to eliminate
wasteful and unproductive programs and to increase the effectiveness and efficiency of government operations.
The criteria used by the Administration in making these decisions for the Department of Homeland Security, however, seem to
be opaque because some very important programs appear to have
been cut while others remain unscathed.
For example, the homeland security grants that help our local
first responders improve their effectiveness and serve as a force
multiplier for Federal resources have been reduced. That could undermine our State and local partners who are the first on the scene
whenever disaster strikes, whether it is a natural disaster or a terrorist attack.
In testimony before the House last week, Secretary Napolitano
stated that in some ways, the [terrorist] threat facing us is at its
most heightened state since September 11, 2001, and that is why
we have to take a close look at the funding levels.
I am also disappointed that the Administration again has proposed to limit Operation Stonegarden to just the Southwest Border.
This effective program, which relies on partnerships with State and
local law enforcement, should be used to help secure both our
Northern and Southern Borders.
Senator Lieberman and I recently released a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report that found, shockingly, that the
Border Patrol has effective control of only 32 miles of the 4,000mile Northern Border and has situational awareness of only about
a quarter of that border. And while the Northern Border does not
have as many problems as the Southern Border, it is vulnerable,
nonetheless, to illegal crossers, including individuals seeking to il-
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legally come to this country, criminals trafficking in humans and
drugs, and, potentially, terrorists.
I have mentioned before that the smuggling of methamphetamine is one example of the growing problem along our Northern
Border, and it is a particular problem in the State of Maine.
The Stonegarden funds have been extremely successful in my
State in allowing local, county, and State law enforcement to work
with the Border Patrol and other Federal officials.
The Chairman has mentioned the fire grant program, a program
that works with a minimum of bureaucracy to ensure that fire departments have the support they need.
Let me just finally mention one area of great concern to me, and
that is the budget for the Coast Guard. The Coast Guards fleet is
among the oldest in the world, yet the men and women of the
Coast Guard continue to perform ever expanding missions with a
high degree of success. They deserve a fleet worthy of their efforts,
but the Presidents budget proposes a 22-percent reduction in the
Coast Guards Deepwater program. That is a cut of $259 million.
Much of this cut is due to the fact that no funding is proposed for
the sixth National Security Cutter. This will push completion of the
eighth, and final, cutter back to 2018. And as we know, the High
Endurance Cutters, of which there are 12, are aging rapidly and
causing a great number of problems for the Coast Guard.
I am, like the Chairman, pleased to see the increases in the cybersecurity budget. I think this is an emerging threat that is getting worse with each passing day.
Finally, I will be pursuing in my questions that I remain disturbed that FEMA has done so little to recoup the improper payments that occurred in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. The investigation we did showed that those improper payments approached
$1 billion, and the inspector general (IG) has identified more than
160,000 applicants that have received improper payments totaling
more than $643 million that have yet to be recouped.
Again, I look forward to discussing these issues with the Secretary. I do want to acknowledge that I appreciate the efficiencies
and business practices that the Secretary has worked very hard to
achieve. Thank you.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Collins.
Secretary Napolitano, it is great to welcome you back. It has
been a real pleasure to work with you the last couple years, and
we look forward to the next two as well.
TESTIMONY OF HON. JANET A. NAPOLITANO,1 SECRETARY,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
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ICE Special Agent Jaime Zapata, and our retired CBP agent in
Kandahar this past week.
Now, Mexico is leading the criminal investigation into the death
of Agent Zapata, and we are supporting them through a joint Department of Justice (DOJ)-DHS task force that the Attorney General and I announced yesterday. I can speak for the entire Administration when I say we are not only saddened by the loss of an
agent, but we are outraged by this act of violence against an officer
of the United States. And make no mistake, justice will be brought
to those involved. We owe nothing less to the memory of Agent Zapata and to those who are still on the job in Mexico.
We remain relentless in our efforts to keep our borders secure
and to assist Mexico in breaking up the cartels that are plaguing
that country. The loss of these brave agents is a stark reminder of
the sacrifices made by the men and women of the Department of
Homeland Security every day. It also strengthens our resolve to do
everything we can in our power to protect against, mitigate, and
respond to threats and to make our Nation more resilient for years
to come.
It is also a reminder of the solemn duty of the Congress and this
Committee to support and oversee the Department. And I want to
thank you, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, for the
support you have shown to the men and women who carry out our
many missions.
Todays threat picture features adversaries who evolve quickly
and are determined to strike us here at homefrom the aviation
system and the global supply chain to surface transportation systems, critical infrastructure, and cyber networks. We are leading
the Administrations unprecedented effort to strengthen Southwest
Border security coupled with a smart and effective approach to enforcing immigration laws in the interior of our country. And we
continue to prepare for, respond to, and recover from disasters of
all types.
President Obamas fiscal year 2012 budget for the Department
allows us to continue to meet these evolving threats and challenges
by prioritizing our essential operational requirements, while reflecting an unprecedented commitment to fiscal discipline that
maximizes the effectiveness of every security dollar that we receive.
Reflecting the current fiscal environment and building the fiscal
year 2012 budget, all DHS components identified savings associated with the Departments 33 efficiency review initiatives, and we
cut Administration and overhead, including my own offices budget,
by over $800 million. Savings were realized through efficiencies in
acquisition, asset and real property management, as well as employment vetting and credentialing, hiring and on-boarding of personnel, and information technology. And we cut professional services contracts, travel, and non-mission-critical training.
We also delayed construction of FEMA at the new DHS headquarters at St. Elizabeths and deferred numerous office collocations
as well as building maintenance and enhancements that would
have furthered our mission.
My written statement includes a comprehensive list of the operational priorities in our budget request, and today I would like to
highlight a few of them for you here.
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As you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, our first priority is preventing
terrorism and enhancing security. This was the founding mission
of the Department and remains our top priority today.
The budget safeguards transportation modes through a layered
detection system, including the deployment of additional transportation security officers, behavioral detection officers, canine teams,
and advanced imaging technology machines at domestic airports.
While expanding watchlist vetting through the Secure Flight Program and enhancing screening and targeting of international travelers before they board U.S.-bound flights through the Immigration
Advisory Program.
The budget also strengthens surface transportation security by
supporting 12 new multi-modal Visible Intermodal Prevention and
Response (VIPR) teams which conduct operations throughout the
transportation sector to prevent potential terrorist activity.
The request also provides funding for the Securing the Cities
Program to protect our highest risk cities from a radiological or nuclear attack, and it makes a significant investment in the National
Bio and Agro Defense Facility (NBAF), which will provide enhanced diagnostic capabilities to protect our country from foreign
animal and emerging diseases.
The request expands support for the national network of State
and local fusion centers to enhance baseline capabilities and provide local law enforcement with the tools to address threats in
their own communities.
Our second mission is to secure and manage our borders. The request continues the Administrations historic border security efforts
by supporting 21,370 Border Patrol agents and 21,186 U.S. Customs and Border Protection Officers, both all-time highs. The budget includes $242 million for the continued deployment of proven effective surveillance technology along the highest trafficked areas of
the Southwest Border to better meet the operational requirements
of our agents on the front lines.
For the Northern Border, the budget request supports investments in technology tailored to the maritime and cold weather environment, including proven stand-alone technology to provide immediate operational benefits.
And for our Nations maritime borders, this budget includes
funding to continue the essential National Security Cutter program
and makes historic investments to recapitalize the Coast Guards
aging assets, including six fast response cutters, 40 response boats,
as well as a sizable investment in the renovation and restoration
of shore facilities. I look forward to talking about that part of the
budget with you, Senator Collins.
The budget request also continues the Departments focus on
smart and effective enforcement of our countrys immigration laws,
while streamlining and facilitating the legal immigration process.
Building on our record over the past 2 years, the Department will
continue to prioritize the identification and removal of criminal
aliens who pose a threat to public safety, and we will target employers who knowingly and repeatedly break the law. This request
enables U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement to fund 33,400
detention beds, remove over 200,000 criminal aliens, and deploy secure communities to 96 percent of all jurisdictions nationally in fis-
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cal year 2012, while promoting compliance with worksite-related
laws through criminal prosecution of egregious employers, Form I
9 inspections, and continued expansion and enhancement of EVerify.
The request also funds immigrant integration efforts, including
programs supporting English language and citizenship education
and continues detention reform efforts currently underway.
To safeguard and secure cyberspace, the budget increases resources to identify and reduce vulnerabilities in our Nations key
cyber networks. The request includes significant investments to expedite the deployment of EINSTEIN 3 to prevent and detect intrusions on government computer systems, increase Federal network
security of large and small agencies, and continue to develop a robust cybersecurity workforce to protect against and respond to cybersecurity threats. The budget also focuses on combating cyber
crime and preventing attacks against our critical infrastructure.
To ensure resilience to disasters, our next mission area, the
budget request focuses on moving resources out of
Washington, DC, and into the hands of State and local responders who are often best positioned to detect and respond to terrorism, natural disasters, and other threats by sustaining Federal
funding for State and local preparedness grants, providing over
$3.8 billion in fiscal year 2012.
The funding includes $670 million for assistance to firefighter
grants, including $420 million to rehire an estimated 2,300 laid-off
firefighters and retain veteran first responders. And to lead and
support essential national and economic security efforts, the budget
expands the Coast Guards operational capacity by funding 50,682
military and civilian positions and establishing the Coast Guards
first Incident Management Assistance Team, which will be deployed rapidly to support incidents of national significance.
The request also continues to support ICE and CBPs enforcement and investigative efforts to protect U.S. intellectual property
rights as well as the Secret Services state-of-the-art forensic support to several missions, including the National Center for Missing
and Exploited Children.
This budget is the culmination of a major first-of-its-kind effort
by the Department through the Quadrennial Homeland Security
Review and the Bottom-Up Review to align our resources with a
comprehensive strategy to ensure a safe, secure, and resilient
homeland, while making an unprecedented commitment to fiscal
discipline.
I would be remiss, however, if I did not note that all of this
progress is at risk in the continuing resolution currently being debated in the House. It is somewhat of a moving target, as we know,
but the current proposal cuts technology investments and security
improvements on the Southwest and Northern Borders, aviation security measures including new technology, funding to sustain the
progress that has been made in enforcing our immigration laws,
critical cybersecurity tools and operations, intelligence personnel,
and State and local fusion centers, Coast Guard funding to support
the war efforts abroad, and grants that support counterterrorism
and disaster response at the local level. I would be happy to answer some of those questions as well.
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Chairman Lieberman, Senator Collins, and Members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify. I ask that my full
statement be included in your record, and I am happy to answer
your questions.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Madam Secretary, and, of course,
we will include the full statement in the record without objection.
Let me ask you to begin by focusing on, in a sense, the catalyzing
mission of the Department after September 11, 2001, which is the
terrorist threat, and the statement you made last week that the
terrorist threat may be at its most heightened state since the attacks nearly 10 years ago.
Talk a little bit, if you would, about why you said that, what you
had in mind.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. I said that because, in addition to core alQaeda, we now have spin-off groups of al-Qaeda, including, I think
importantly, Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), who have
demonstrated their intent to attack the West and to attack the
United States. They continue to focus on transportation modes,
particularly aviation security, which is why the aviation part of
this budget is so important. But combined with that, we now are
seeing the rise in the so-called homegrown terrorism, which is, I
think, accelerated by a connection with the Internet. So we are
dealing with more dissipated sources abroad, but also from within
the country. That means that we have to be working both things
at the same time. That is why the fusion centers are so important
here in the country and our effort to push information and intelligence analysis out to States and to cities, but it is also why we
are so focused on aviation security at domestic airports and internationally, as well as adding support to surface and other transportation. As we know from the Najibullah Zazi case, for example, just
a very recent one with the attempt to attack surface transportation.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Right. Let me ask you outcome about the
threat of homegrown radicalization. As I am sure you know, Senator Collins and I recently released a bipartisan staff investigation
into the murders at Fort Hood in November 2009, and in addition
to specific recommendations to the Department of Defense, the
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), etc., we recommended that
there be a review done, preferably under the auspices of the White
House, probably by John Brennan, which would include DHS, to
determine what we can do to better, with a whole-of-government
approach, counter homegrown radicalization. We had a hearing on
our report this week with a group of excellent witnesses. One of
them, Phil Mudd, who as you know was with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for a long time and was almost with DHS,
was with the FBI, said this is a needle-in-the-haystack problem.
And Charlie Allen, your former Director of Intelligence and Analysis, was here and he quotedI do not remember exactly, but from
September 11, 2001, to 2009, there was something like 46 or 48
cases of homegrown radicalization, 13 of them in 2009. So there
was an increasing pace. Obviously, 46 or 48 over a 9-year period
is a very small percentage of the Muslim-American population,
though an individual, as we saw with Nidal Malik Hasan at Fort
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Hood, can do terrible damage: 13 people killed, 32 injured, some seriously.
Do you have any ideas about what the Department can do, along
with other Federal agencies, to better identify, counter, and prevent the existence, certainly the spread of homegrown radicalization of Muslim-Americans into Islamist terrorists?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, first of all, I read your report even
though it was about the Department of Defense (DOD), FBI, and
the Hasan matter, but I thought it was a very important report to
review. So I thank you for having that review done. It was very
well written, well done. I do not know if the actual scripter was
you wrote it yourselves. [Laughter.]
I thought you did a very nice job.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Here is where we have been focused. We
looked at this, and we had the Homeland Security Advisory Committee, which is chaired by William Webster, the former head of
the FBI, especially look at this whole issue of homegrown and
countering violent extremism. And we decided that the most effective way from the homeland security perspective was to focus on
local police departments and techniques that have been shown to
work in the past, neighborhood and community policing, where you
have police who are specially trained, but who really are located in
a particular area all the time. They get to know the people. The
people get to know them. You begin to build trust. That is how information can flow.
So just this past week at the Federal Law Enforcement Training
Center (FLETC), we test drove a training curriculum on this kind
of homegrown violent extremism, and we had representatives there
from a number of different police and sheriffs organizations to give
us their comments so that we can rule that out. But this homeland
security architecture that we are building, I think one of the things
we have to recognize is that the Federal Government alone is not
going to be the only player here. The folks who are really front
lines are State and local police, sheriffs, medical personnel, the people who are in the detention facilities who work as guards in our
jails and our prisons, these are all people who need to be woven
into what we are doing.
We also met this past week with the FBI and have joined efforts
with them on the detention populations and their potential when
they are released for radicalization. So there are a whole number
of efforts underway there, but our key focus, Mr. Chairman, is on
what we can do to support State and local law enforcement from
a community-oriented policing strategy to identify tactics and techniques and behaviors that could be a real tip-off to a terrorist.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. I think that is a very significant conclusion. It makes a lot of sense to me. We know in a couple of cases,
as in the New York City Police Department (NYPD), they are operating something like that quite effectively. We also know, just from
years of local law enforcement experience, that the cop-on-the-beat
programs in previous years dealing with crime have a very positive
effect. So I am actually heartened to hear that.
I guess the final question, bottom line, is: Are there resources in
this budget that will allow you to begin to move forward on assist-
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ing local police departments that do not have that kind of program
going now?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Mr. Chairman, a few things. One, there
are resources in this budget for the fusion centers, and we have
been, first of all, upgrading the quality of the fusion centers. It is
a nascent kind of development. We looked at all 72 of them this
last year, and identified which ones were meeting certain baseline
standards, which needed to come up. We are making sure that they
all have access to classified information, networks, and we are moving intelligence analysts from Washington, DC, to the fusion centers in the country not only to help with intel analysis, but to train
State and locals on intel analysis. So there is money in the budget
for fusion centers.
There is money in the budget to support grant programs that can
be used by State and local police and first responders, and when
I get to Senator Collins, I think we can have a colloquy perhaps
about how the grant money is actually budgeted in the Presidents
budget.
The third part of this, however is the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program. That, of course, is not in our budget.
That is in DOJs. And so that part I do not have.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. That is great. I take you to say you are
going to be driving training, at least, of local police departments in
a counter-homegrown radicalization program.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. That is true.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. That is great. Senator Collins.
Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Before I get to the Coast Guard and the grant money, there are
two other issues that I want to bring up with you. First is the improper payment problem at FEMA. Hurricane Katrina was back in
2005, and the American people were very generous in responding,
as I know Senator Landrieu would attest. But they are also very
frustrated when they see improper payments. It was disheartening
to see the latest IG report which indicatesand here we are 6
years after Hurricane Katrinathat there is still outstanding at
least $643 million in improper payments related to Hurricanes
Katrina and Rita.
Now, I know there were some court developments which slowed
the recoupment process, but the fact is, according to the IG, FEMA
has yet to implement a new process to recoup those payments.
We just cannot afford to have $643 million in improper payments
at a time when the budget is under such pressure. We cannot afford it at any time. It is unacceptable.
Why arent we recouping that money or prosecuting the cases of
fraud that exist within those 160,000 cases?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, Senator Collins, this is an area that
I think we need to work with the Congress on, and you and I may
have a respectful difference of opinion here. But, first of all, one of
the problems is an IG report that comes out so many years after
the fact, and there are, I must say, some disagreements with their
conclusions on some of the payments.
Second, it is not as if one, two, three, or four entities received
that money. It is spread over literally thousands and thousands of
beneficiaries, most of whom are spread across the country now.
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And I am informed by FEMA that the average overpayment, even
accepting the IGs conclusions, would be about $2,500. So it is a lot
of money when you add it all together, and believe me, I respect
the value of a dollar. But this is now going back years and years
after the fact to try to find people to recoup relatively small
amounts of money.
We may want to look at this whole recoupment process as it affects Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. It was such an unusual disaster
with such unusual requirements that I do not think it should be
the pattern. So I really would like the opportunity to meet and talk
with you more about that as we move along in this budget process.
Senator COLLINS. I would be glad to, but let me suggest that I
have talked to the IG just within the past week about this, and he
has told me that the discouraging part of his report is that the
same problems and lack of internal controls that allowed these improper payments to occur have been evident for decades, literally,
and they have just never been remedied.
I think to most people who are struggling right now, $2,500 is
a lot of money.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. It is a lot of money.
Senator COLLINS. And in the aggregate, it is a huge amount of
money.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Agreed.
Senator COLLINS. I would be glad to work with you, but FEMA
needs to actually start recovering this money and making sure that
the controls are in place so that when the next disaster strikes
and inevitably it willthe same thing does not happen again. In
talking to Inspector General Richard Skinner, he said he could go
back to 1993 and show me the same kinds of problems. I held hearings prior to Hurricane Katrina that showed improper payments
with Florida hurricanes.
So this seems to be a systemic problem in FEMA, and it is one
that we need to correct once and for all.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. And it may beand, again, I do not
knowthat it merits a more substantial conversation, particularly
with the Hurricanes Katrina and Rita victims or survivors are concerned. But there is a real tension between getting money out
quickly to people who immediately need monies to get a home, to
get re-established and so forth and the controls on that, versus 4
or 5 years after the fact going back and saying, well, it should have
been this much, not this much, that sort of thing.
That is different from actual cases of fraud. Fraud should be
prosecuted.
Senator COLLINS. Of which there were many. I remember in our
investigation that we discovered prisoners who were applying for
housing assistance after Hurricane Katrina and received checks in
jail for housing assistance. I mean, there really were some blatant
fraudulent schemes.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Indeed.
Senator COLLINS. Let me switch to another issue. I was surprised
to see that the Presidents budget includes a proposal to begin imposing a $5.50 inspection fee on travelers entering the United
States by air or sea from Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean. Now,
as you know, Canada is our biggest trading partner. There is $1.5
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billion in commerce transacted between the two nations on a daily
basis. People are flying and arriving by ferry back and forth all the
time.
What is the rationale for this fee? My concern, for example, is
that it will discourage cruise ships from coming to the State of
Maine from Canada. That is a popular route right now. But if there
is going to be this additional inspection fee on the thousands of
people who may be on a cruise ship, that may discourage the cruise
ship from even stopping here. And I am also concerned about the
impact on tourism and families going back and forth in general.
What is the rationale? And did the Department look and assess
what the impact would be on commerce and tourism?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, the rationale is fairness. We charge
that fee for travelers from every other country except Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean. It has always, in my understanding, been
the intent to implement that fee. It is not for land. It is just for
the air and sea. We thought and looked at potential impacts, but
to give you an example, if you have a traveler coming from London
to the United States, they fly direct, they pay that fee. But if their
plane stops in Canada, so they are coming from Canada, they do
not pay the fee. So you have some real discrepancies in the system.
In terms of effects on tourism and travel, I think we can look at
the Electronic System For Travel Authorization (ESTA) fee, which
went into effect. These are things that get added to the ticket price,
and so that the travelers from other parts of the world are not essentially underwriting travelers who are from Canada or Mexico.
Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Collins.
In order of both arrival and seniority at the gavel, Senator
Landrieu, Senator McCain, Senator Johnson, and Senator Tester.
I asked about that, and I was reminded that when the gavel falls,
it goes whoever is here by seniority on the Committee. It is the
Armed Services rule.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANDRIEU
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My first question has to do with disaster relief, and it is concerning because it is a big number. The Senator from Maine was
just referring to a number associated with failure to recover in
large measure $2,000 payments equaling about $640 million. That
is a lot of money, and I want to comment on that in a minute. But
there is an issue over $1.6 billion in this years budget, and I think
you are aware that in the House continuing resolution that is being
debated and in the Presidents proposal, they are both recommending that we basically fund disaster recovery out of the base
budget of homeland security, which in my mind is a radical departure from the past and will absolutely, if left unchecked, undermine
your Departments ability to respond to all the threats that I just
mentioned and that have been pointed out.
Could you comment? And what is your position on that? And are
you prepared to work with us and the President to fund known recovery costs for previous disasters on an emergency basis?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Thank you, Senator, and I do look forward to appearing before you at the Appropriations Subcommittee
hearing.
Yes, what is going on, this is the Disaster Relief Fund (DRF),
and the way we budget the DRF is to take a 5-year rolling average
of what is basically the emergency response cost. But added to
that, then, you have so-called catastrophic disasters, and those are
disasters that are over $500 million. And, it is difficult to predict
when you are going to have those, how many you will have in a
given year, or if you will have any. And so historically what the
Congress has done is approve the 5-year rolling average, and then
via supplemental when we know what we are looking at, then they
appropriate the rest.
By not proceeding in that fashion, you have two challenges. One
is it requires us to have perfect crystal balls to tell how many disasters of a catastrophic type we will have in any given year. And
our crystal balls are not that clear.
Second, we have to pay for disaster response. It is really non-negotiable. So what that means is that if you do not have a mechanism to fund them, it is just a hidden cut to FEMA, and it is a substantial one, as you have noted.
Senator LANDRIEU. Well, I just want to bring this to the Committees attention. Of course, as the Appropriations subommittee chair,
I will be focusing on it, but I really want the Members to fully appreciate the numbers here. It is $1.56 billion in fiscal year 2011
that is missing from this years budget. But for fiscal year 2012
through 2014, FEMA is estimating $6.7 billion. Those are outlying
bills from Hurricanes Katrina, Rita, Gustav, Ike, and flooding in
the Midwest, Rhode Island, and Tennessee. These costs are not accounted for in the Presidents budget request. And it most certainly
cannot come out of the basic homeland security budget. We have
to designate this funding as the emergency that it is so that this
Department can adequately support its other components, including the Border Patrol, the Coast Guard, etc. So I just really wanted
to bring that up.
The National Disaster Recovery Framework is very important,
Madam Secretary, and I understand that it is not yet fully operational. And it gets a little bit back to what Senator Collins was
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saying about we know Hurricane Katrina was an exception. It was
not blanket fraud, but it was just mismanagement of distribution
of monies, of $2,000 on average per family. We did not have the
right software to verify addresses. We double-paid some families. It
is going to be difficult. But we can find a better way, a more accurate way to make sure we are making appropriate payments. But
for this National Recovery Framework, I understand that it is still
not in place.
So do you know what the status of that initiative is? Does this
budget include sufficient funding to complete it? Because it is very
important that we get it completed before we have an earthquake
in Memphis or some other catastrophic event.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, Senator. But it also crosses many
lines and many agencies, and it also crosses State and local. So
there has been, as you might imagine, a lot of consultation that has
gone into drafting recovery framework responses. The immediate
stuff you do right away. Recovery is how you restore communities,
housing, small businesses, and the like.
In terms of the departments that are impacted, we have made
a strong recommendation to the White House about how this
should appear and be organized. We are waiting now for the White
House to agree, concur, amend, or disagree. And my understanding
is at that point we may need to make some adjustments. But under
the current practice with what we have now, the budget request is
adequate.
Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. Senator
McCain.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCAIN
Senator MCCAIN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Madam Secretary, for being here. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you
for the frank and very candid conversations we have concerning the
issue of border security. And I also want to appreciate the time and
effort you take to keep me and the other Members from the Border
States informed as to the efforts you are making on border security. And I think it is important that we continue the conversation,
and I appreciate the briefing that you gave me just the other day.
As you know, there is a February 15, GAO report that contains
some very interesting information, and in that report it says, As
of February 2011, CBP did not have an estimate of the time and
efforts that are needed to secure the Southwest Border as it transitions to a new methodology for measuring border security.
I think this is part of our problem and our dialogue, because you,
I think very appropriately, point out that there has been an increase in assets, an increase in apprehensions, certainly increases
in efficiencies. And yet at the same time, if you look at the same
situation from another viewpoint, we have seen the violence in
Mexico grow dramatically. As I predicted to you, an American was
just killed and another one injured, and I am convinced, tragically,
that if the status quo remains, that violence will continue to spill
over onto our side of the border.
Everyone knows that these drug cartels have become more aggressive, better armed, better equipped, more efficient, and the
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level of violence in Mexico continues to go up dramatically. Some
30,000 Mexican citizens or more, have been killed during President
Felipe Calderons presidency. So you can look at it from one viewpoint that we have made some significant improvements and investments. But I also find, when I go to the Southern part of my
State, as you have on numerous occasions, one, they do not feel
safe; two, they are still subject to home invasions; three, in the
Tucson sector, 91,000 illegal aliens were apprehended on Federal
lands, and the estimates are by almost every objective observer
that three times as many get through. Well, if you do the math on
that, you still have over 200,000 people crossing through the Tucson sector illegally and not being apprehended. I do not think that
is acceptable.
And then last week I had a meeting with the High Intensity
Drug Trafficking Areas (HIDTA) Program office, friends of yours,
in factthe great U.S. Attorney, a former assistant of yours, was
thereand they said that there is anywhere from 100 to 200 spotters positioned in mountain ranges of Arizona using two-way radios
to communicate with marijuana load drivers or human smugglers.
Now, it does not give my constituents a feeling of confidence if
there are 200 spotters in Arizona living on mountaintops directing
drug smugglers. And they maintain that Arizona has become the
funnel from Nogales up through Pinal County into Maricopa County and then all over the country because the Sinaloa cartel is a
major distributor to the entire country of these drugs.
Again, I have had the privilege of visiting with your people and
knowing them. They are outstanding, hard-working, and dedicated.
Those that are working in the forward operating bases on our border, it is a hardship duty. And obviously we have seen cases where
it is not without danger.
I am sorry for the long opening comment. We have to agree on
certain criteria on what is successful securing of our border. Senator Jon Kyl and I have a 10-point plan. We think that secures the
border. I think it would be very helpful to all of us if you could lay
out what assets need to be devoted and what statistics would show
us that the border is being secured. And at that time, I think we
could move forward with comprehensive immigration reform.
Thank you.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, thank you, and there is no one
more committed to securing that border than I am. I have spent
the greater part of my professional life on border-related issues. I
used to chair the HIDTA to which you refer, and a number of the
same members are there. And I know the men and women that we
have working for us and that you have helped supply for us are so
committed as well.
We can talk about and arrive at some common metrics, and that
also merits probably a different and longer conversation. But I
think, of the metrics we do have, they are all going in the right direction. The problem is they are not going in the right direction
fast enough in the Tucson sector, and that is the sector to which
you refer.
And so our plan is to increase and to be pouring even more resources into that sector from supplying monies for State and locals
down therethis is the Operation Stonegarden issue to which Sen-
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ator Collins referredto radios, to other technology that they can
actually work.
When we get to discussing SBInet, as we might during another
round of questions, I would be happy to explain how some of those
monies have been redeployed on the ground for front-line detection.
I will say that it is a system. You have to have troops or boots
on the ground at or near the border, you have to have checkpoints,
and you have to have interior enforcement. And, it is a three-legged
stool. And so it is boots, it is technology, it is that infrastructure
that gives us security. And at a certain pointand I do not know
if it is subject to an actual absolute number, because these numbers jump around all the time. But at a certain point, we have to
be able to agree that the Tucson sector has become akin to, say,
El Paso, for example, and at that point proceed with the other discussion to which you refer.
Senator MCCAIN. Well, thank you. I would like for you to think
about certain benchmarks and certain criteria that we could use to
gauge success or failure that both of us could agree, all of us, and
we could say we have achieved X amount of apprehensions, a certain amount of fencing, whatever it is, which obviously the results
would be obvious from that.
Mr. Chairman, I have overstayed my time. I just wanted to say
one word about SBInet. It is a colossal failure, a waste of over $1
billion, and that cannot be fixed. I still think that the contractor
ought to be held responsible, but maybe that is a subject for a conversation another day. But I would urge you to look at what the
Armed Services Committee has passed legislation which helps us
track better the progress or lack of progress of weapons systems
that we purchase, such as the Nunn-McCurdy trigger that Congress has to be notified once there is a certain cost overrun. There
are certain benchmarks and criteria which the Congress has to be
informed of and participate in decisionmaking. So I would like for
you to look at what we do as regards to weapons procurement in
DOD because I think maybe it would be very useful and helpful to
us in tracking these situations.
I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank you, Madam Secretary, for
your hard work.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator McCain.
Madam Secretary, as we discussed the other day, we did announce at our organization meeting the other morning that border
security is going to be one of our priorities this year, and we are
going to start a series of hearings, hopefully in Marchthat is, we
will start in March. And the point that Senator McCain raises is
an important one, which is whether we can find a metric, a set of
standards we can agree on where we can say we are doing as much
as we all agree together we can do to secure our border. And that
will not only achieve security, it may also here in a broader context
enable us to deal with the possibility of comprehensive immigration
reform, which I know you are also interested in.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Very good.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you. Nest is Senator Johnson, then
Senator Tester, and then Senator Portman.
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OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHNSON
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are at their lowest point in decades. And so as apprehensions go
down, we extrapolate that illegal crossings have gone down as well.
Senator JOHNSON. What would that number be then based on the
current extrapolation? What is your estimate of current crossings?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, I can give you those actual numbers, let me see if I have it right here. The apprehension number
is around 196,000 in the Tucson sector of the Border Patrol, which
is the most heavily trafficked. The others are much smaller.
Senator JOHNSON. In your estimation
Secretary NAPOLITANO. So you have to assume that the Tucson
sector represents about 45 percent of the apprehensions. So take
195,000 and then do the math.
Senator JOHNSON. Now, I will say at the onset I realize it is not
an easy problem, but we have been talking about securing our borders for years. I would just like to ask your opinion. What is the
number one problem preventing us from doing that?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, you have to look at borders not just
as the physical line on the map, but what needs to be done before
people get to that border and then after they get into the interior
of our country. So we absolutely need to be working with Mexico
to prevent, detect illegal immigration, drug smuggling, human
smuggling, and money laundering. A number of efforts are underway in that regard.
At the border itself, you need manpower, you need technology,
you need infrastructure. Some of the things in the Presidents
budget will really assist in this regard because they will allow us
to complete some interoperability projects in terms of communications along the border. And also we put more into technology and
boots on the ground nearer the border than at sector stations, for
example. So we have increased the number of forward-operating
camps. We have an agreement from the Tohono Oodham Nation
that we can put more camps on their lands, those sorts of things.
And then you have to deal realistically and very firmly with creating a culture of immigration compliance among employers in the
United States. That is why we support E-Verify. That is why we
are doing more and more audits. That is why we are referring more
companies for debarment and for prosecution because that is the
incentive for much illegal immigration. It is narcotics, but the big
numbers are people coming in search of work.
Senator JOHNSON. So those are three different issues. One of
those would be resources, correct?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Sure, yes.
Senator JOHNSON. How much do you think it would cost to secure the border?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, I think the Presidents budget gives
us the resources we need to fit into the plan we have for the Southwest Border. That is our part. The budget for the DOJ part in
terms of what you do by way of prosecution, detention, and so
forth, that is in the DOJ budget. But I think the Presidents budget
is adequate to meet our plan. I would not go below that, that is
for sure.
Senator JOHNSON. Well, thank you.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Johnson. Next is Senator
Tester.
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OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR TESTER
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Secretary NAPOLITANO. I will look into it, and we will respond to
you directly.
Senator TESTER. Thank you.
I recently sent a letter to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates and
you on the increased rate of drug smuggling across the Northern
Border by low-flying aircraft. Low-flying aircraft is a real problem.
We have heard from folks on the ground that you can hear them
but you cannot see them. And we have been working for low-level
radar for some time now. It is something that I think that you need
to work with the DOD. I think it is the same report that Senator
McCain talked about. It talked about the Northern Border not
being as secure as we wanted by a long shot. So we need technology as a comprehensive part of that.
The National Guard in Montana has done a pilot project up
there. I think they have done some good work. I really think that
if a low level of radar was implemented, it may save some manpower and may make that border more secure. I do not know how
you move forward on it, but I think we need to get started on it.
Any thoughts on this at all, on the low-level radar?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. There is actually money in the Presidents budget for a low-level radar project, and we have that in
mind for both borders.
Senator TESTER. Good. And I was going to ask you, you talked
about the Presidents budget as applied to the Southern Border.
What about the Presidents budget as it applies to the Northern
Border and getting it secured?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, the Presidents budget actually has
a lot of enhancements for the Northern Border, but it is a different
border, so we need different types of equipment.
Senator TESTER. Absolutely.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. We need equipment that can survive extreme cold. We need more maritime equipment up there. And so
that is where you will see the enhancements, is in that sort of
thing. It does recognize and provide agents at the Northern Border
but it meets all of Congress requirements there. It is not just the
agents. It is really the technology and the maritime assets that we
need to augment that agent support.
Senator TESTER. I could not agree more. In fact, I think that if
we were to get some more technology up there, in the long haul I
think it is going to make the border more secure. And I think that
it really would not have to cost us more money. In fact, it could
save us more money in manpower. I really believe that. You are
the professional in that area, and I respect your perspective. But
I am just saying that from my perspective I think if we could get
some of that technology implemented, it could really save us some
money and make the border more secure in the process.
The next question is one that you and I have visited about a
number of times. No one is more firmly aware of our Nations responsibility to protect animal agriculture and public health from biological threats and foreign animal diseases, but I still have some
major concerns about the $150 million that is included in the Presidents budget for the National Bio and Agro-Defense Facility to be
built in the middle of Tornado Alley, where I think about 10 percent of this Nations cattle are within 200 miles of it. And I think
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food security is critically important. The economic harm that could
happen if there were to be an exposure is incredible. We received
a risk assessment, and one of the things it found was that there
was a 70-percent chance that a release of foot-and-mouth disease
would result during this 50-year lifetime. That would be catastrophic. Whether it happened next year or 25 years from now, it
would be catastrophic.
It is a lot of money. I would ask you to reconsider the proposal.
And I was just wondering if you have looked at the report, if there
was any redesign that was done, or if you are going to move forward.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, I read the report. You are talking
about the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) report?
Senator TESTER. Yes, I am.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. I reviewed it. Actually, we responded to
it. I think you have to view it, Senator, as a preliminary report
based on a preliminary design. And that allowed us or enables us
to make adjustments or changes in the design to deal with some
of the issues that were raised. It has not caused us, however, to
revisit the basic decision of that, Tornado Alley aside. I do not
make light of that except to say that was already taken into account when this project was peer reviewed up the wazoo when it
was originally awarded. Then we have re-reviewed it and re-looked
at it compared to the alternatives, and now we have the NAS report, which we will be very responsive to as this project moves forward.
But we think overall this is the best place to host such a facility,
these three and four labs, and so we do intend to proceed, and the
Presidents budget has finances in there for that.
Senator TESTER. My time has run out. I have said this before.
And I have to say it again. I very much respect the job you are
doing. I think you have a very difficult job, and I think you have
done a remarkable job. There is always room for improvement. You
know that. And I think you are working hard on doing that. But
as far as the animal defense, as a farmer I cannot figure it out. I
would not want it at Bozeman, Montana. I think where it is at on
Plum Island is rightand the New Yorkers might be unhappy with
me, but it is off the shore of the mainland. And I know it is hard
to get researchers out there, but there is a bigger issue than even
that here. I mean, these are highly contagious diseases, and if they
have an outbreak, it couldthe economic and the food security
issues that revolve around that are huge, and I cannot get that off
of my front burner, to be honest with you. I cannot get the assurances, and then compound it by being someplace where they have
some pretty doggone wicked weather patterns. Anyway, the decision has been made, but I really wish it would be revisited.
With that, I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you,
Madam Secretary. I appreciate your work.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Tester.
I want to share with both of you that I have a vision, after one
of your exchanges, that your helicopter has picked up that recalcitrant Customs employee official, and he is now being dropped on
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the roof of the building in which Senator Tester has his office. The
meeting is about to begin. [Laughter.]
Secretary NAPOLITANO. From a very high height. We will deal
with that particular issue. You know what, Senator? That one I can
deal with.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. I am going to stop myself from suggesting
he may be dropped onto Plum Island. [Laughter.]
Senator Portman.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PORTMAN
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Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, and so there are a couple of things
to consider.
First of all, E-Verify itself, the system is being improved to be
less susceptible to identity theft, for example, if somebody is using
a Social Security number that has also appeared somewhere else,
it will be able to pick something like that up.
Second, I think in its early iterations there were some false entries into the system or inaccurate entries. The accuracy of the system now is very high. We have also wanted to make it easy for
small businesses to have and to operate, and I have seen it and
used it myself. As people who work with me know, I am not exactly
the worlds best computer person, and it is pretty easy to operate.
So that is part of it.
And if and whenand we hope it is sooner rather than later
the Congress takes up immigration reform, one of the things we
would like to work with Congress on are the actual charges that
can be brought against employers and the elements of the burden
of proof because the way the statutes are written now, even when
we have somebody that everybody knows very well that has been
hiring illegal labor, actually proving that under the elements of the
current statute is very difficult. Therefore, it is difficult to get U.S.
Attorneys to take those cases and so forth. So we look forward to
working with the Congress on improving those statutes.
Senator PORTMAN. Likewise, and it takes resources and it takes
focus in coming up with a system that is, as you say, easy to use
and relatively low cost for the employer. Given our economy, we do
not want to burden employers more, but we do need, I think, to get
at the issue where it is most effective, and that is going to be
through the employer and through the interior enforcement.
I was involved in the Department of Homeland Security organization, consolidating 20 or so agencies and departments when you
were still governor, and I cannot say that I am proud of everything
that has happened in the interim period. There have been some
management challenges, obviously, including with the way FEMA
was brought in, including with just some of the different cultures
I will use that word againthat had to mesh together.
Now I am in the position with Senator McCaskill to be on the
Ad Hoc Subcommittee on Contracting Oversight which deals with
acquisitions. I have noticed in the budget proposal we have before
us that you have made a request to provide more funds, $24 million more, to strengthen your acquisition workforce, 150 new positions throughout the Department.
First, I guess I would ask you, Why are you asking for those additional resources? And what can we do to ensure that those additions, should they be approved, actually promote efficiency, transparency, avoid some of the management breakdowns we have seen
and, therefore, save taxpayer dollars? If you can talk a little about
that.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, Senator. Actually, this is part of creating the department, having that internal management structure
and the assets with which to do that. It is a big department. We
do a lot of acquisitions, and we are often criticized for some of those
acquisitions. There have been different standards used by different
elements of the Department, different requirements employed, dif-
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ferent oversight done. But what we want to do is create a professionalized acquisition workforce that knows the DHS missions, that
understands how things fit together. So part of bringing the additional workforce in is also training into the department and consistency of training so that anybody who is working in the acquisitions area isthere is some consistency. It is a real part of the professional development of the department.
I think you can tell by the money we have already saved through
the efficiency review process, where part of that has been acquisitions reform and also some comments made in some recenteven
I think the GAO has made some comments about improvements
they have already seen in the way that we do acquisitions and acquisition oversight.
Senator PORTMAN. We look forward to working with you. Our job
is to look at, of course, all agencies and departments, but because
this is the Homeland Security Committee, DHS may get special attention, which I am sure you are looking forward to. But I look forward to having you or your representative before the Subcommittee
at the appropriate time to talk more about that.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Very good.
Senator PORTMAN. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Portman. It is great to
have you and all the experience you have had on our Committee.
Thank you very much.
Senator Akaka.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA
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manpower, and the like. So the fee is associated, the $1.50 per
enplanement is associated directly with the threat we confront.
With respect to impact on the industry, we already have, as I
mentioned earlier, the ESTA fee, which has already migrated, and
we did not see any impact that I could see on that.
The way I looked at it, Senator, was when the airlines charge
fees for checking a bag or for buying a Coke, we can certainly have
a fee to protect the safety and security of the passengers. And that
is what this is about. Or Pepsi. I did not mean to pick.
Senator AKAKA. Madam Secretary, the Departments budget requests $7.3 million for security costs for the Asia-Pacific Economic
Cooperation (APEC) summit. This national security special event
will take place in November in my home State of Hawaii and includes earlier events in Montana and California as well. The summit requires extensive coordination between Federal, State, and
local officials to protect President Obama and other world leaders
attending. Please discuss why these funds are necessary to enable
the Secret Service to fulfill its responsibilities.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, thank you, Senator Akaka. We requested those monies because of the importance of the summit, because of the protection issues that it entails. The money is based
on estimates from other similar type events where you have groups
of international leaders combining in one place. We want to make
sure safety and security is taken care of and is done very smoothly,
is done in cooperation with the State and local entities, and that
everybody can rest assured that that part of the summit has been
taken care of, as I said. So the actual money request is based in
part on our experience with other similar events.
Senator AKAKA. Madam Secretary, in its budget submission, the
Department proposed pay and retirement changes for certain CBP
employees. However, draft language to make these changes has not
been provided to this Committee. I have focused on pay and retirement issues as Chairman of the Federal Workforce Subcommittee.
In the months ahead, will you pledge to work closely with your authorizing committees on your proposal?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Absolutely, Senator, and part of this is
our process, and it goes to something Senator Portman referenced,
is from a management perspective, how you unit all these disparate pay systems that we have as well. And one of the big
changes that the Congress approved last year was the conversion
or the eligibility to journeyman pay in CBP. And so part of what
you are seeing is that conversion over and now streamlining how
we are organizing pay, whereas, before ICE and CBP were treated
very differently, trying to harmonize all those systems. So we will
look to working with your Committee on that. But that is the underlying purpose.
Senator AKAKA. Madam Secretary, our focus today is, of course,
the fiscal year 2012 budget, but I want to ask you about the fiscal
year 2011 continuing resolution (CR) the House is considering.
While I support responsible and targeted reductions to address our
budget deficit, I am troubled by draconian cuts that would harm
job growth and may hamper the governments ability to keep this
country safe.
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How would the proposed cuts in the continuing resolution put
forth by House Republicans affect the Departments mission?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, it is not good, and, of course, it is
a moving target. So changes are being made even as we speak. But
it cuts technology investments that we need for both borders,
Southern and Northern. It cuts new technology for airports that we
need to make sure that individuals who are trying to move explosives onto planes are not able to do that. It cuts cybersecurity,
which is a very important area that we have large responsibilities
for. It cuts the intelligence personnel for the fusion centers and for
State and locals that I referenced earlier as part of the architecture
that we need to have. And it cuts grants to state and locals. Now,
one amendment restored some of those grants this morning, I understand, but not the bulk of them. So that is just a few of the
things that the House CR would do.
Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much for your responses. Thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks, Senator Akaka.
If your time allows, we will do one more round of a couple of
questions each. We will do it with a maximum of 7 minutes.
Let me ask you about two items relating to DHS that were on
the GAOs high-risk list yesterday. One was what I would describe
as cybersecurity, governments efforts to protect Federal systems
and critical infrastructure. As you know, cybersecurity legislation
is a top priority for this Committee. Senator Harry Reid has made
it a top priority. Senator Collins and I are working on reintroducing the bill that we introduced last year.
It is very important to note, as you have, that the Presidents
budget before us now proposes increasing the Departments, your
Departments cybersecurity funding by 17 percent, a very sizable
increase in these times, but in my opinion definitely a necessary increase. And to the extent that you can in open session, I wanted
to ask you to spend a minute or two just describing what that increase in funding will enable the Department to do that you are
not doing now to protect our cyber systems.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, it will enable us to deploy EINSTEIN 3, which is the name for the new protection and prevention
of intrusion technology across the Federal family, including the medium and smaller sized agencies. Without the money, we will not
be able to do that. That is probably the most important thing.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. OK.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. I think the second thing is that it will enable us to continue to expand the cybersecurity workforce. We are
pretty bare bones on that now. It is difficult to bring cyber experts
into the Federal Government, much less into a new Department.
But we have been given direct hiring authority by the Office of Personnel Management, and we are making some headway there. But
we want to make sure we have the resources for that full time
equivalent employee.
Then the third thing is that it will enable us to strengthen the
obligations we have undertaken pursuant to the memorandum of
understanding we forged with the Department of Defense this summer on how we each can use the technological resources of the National Security Agency (NSA).
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Chairman LIEBERMAN. Well, we will follow that. Obviously, this
Committee, Senator Collins, and I are very focused on strengthening the Departments role as the lead agency for protecting Federal Government non-defense Web sites and the critical private infrastructure.
I received a note that you have to leave at 4:30, so let me
ask
Secretary NAPOLITANO. I think I have a meeting at the White
House with
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Do you think that is more important?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. No, never.
Senator COLLINS. The old White House excuse. [Laughter.]
Secretary NAPOLITANO. And I will be glad to come back.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. That is OK. So you have a number of programs focusing on assisting critical infrastructure owners in identifying and remediating cybersecurity risks. But they proportionally
receive a lot less funding, those programs, than the ones focused
on protecting the Federal Government Web sites in cyber space.
Do you have enough to do what you need to do in that area since
so much of our critical infrastructure is in private hands?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. It is, but it also is getting resources from
the private sector. The operators, for example, of the grids know
the operators of our financial institutions, the big critical infrastructure institutions, as we all know, are so important to us and
potentially subject to cyber attack. They are putting resources into
this as well. We are working closely with them. But this is going
to be a multi-year and it is probably going to be an ongoing type
of expenditure that we have. And I think where we were
prioritizing is where we think we need to start and where we have
the greatest need, and that is, making sure that the Federal Government itself is protected.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. And the note has now been amended to
say you have to be at the White House at 4:30. I am going to wrap
up and give my colleagues
Secretary NAPOLITANO. We have to leave at 4:30.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Well, I am much relieved.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. I will try to keep my answers shorter.
Chairman LIEBERMAN Rather than ask you another question, I
am going to end with an appeal. The second item on the GAO I
was going to talk about, the high-risk report, is implementing and
transforming the Department of Homeland Security. It has been on
the high-risk list since the beginning, since 2003, remains there in
this new report, although GAO says the Department has made
progress in the last years toward an improvement in the management and integration of the Department. I want to set a joint goal
with you that, as we approach the 10th anniversary of at least September 11, 2001, that we work together to see if we can get you
off the list next year.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. I am with you.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you. Senator Collins.
Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am mindful of the
fact that Senator McCaskill is here and undoubtedly has very
tough questions, so I am going to submit most of mine for the
record, but I do want to ask you one question about the Coast
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Guard, which, as you know from our conversations, I am very concerned about whether the Coast Guard has the assets for its very
important maritime security role which has been so critical since
September 11, 2001. And the plan is to replace 12 high endurance
cutters with only eight National Security Cutters. And the problem
is that, as I understand the budget request, it provides no funding
for the sixth National Security Cutter and pushes the completion
date for all eight from 2016 to 2018.
I am told that every 1-year delay in the acquisition program increases the cost per cutter by $45 to $60 million. So if this plan
goes through, it is going to cost $180 million more than it would
if you stayed on schedule. And we see this in navy shipbuilding all
the time, that when you push off the acquisition, you end up paying more.
It strikes me that this was a short-term decision that buys you
some budget relief this year but ends up costing more in the long
run.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. I would disagree, Senator, and I will tell
you what we did. The budget does pay for some of the after-acquisition costs associated with number five, and so that is all paid for
by 2012.
What we did not do was set aside for 2012 what are called the
long lead time expenses for number six, and the reason we did not
do that is because, while we fully intend to build them and we fully
intend to build them on the current scheduleand the schedule
has been pushed back not by money as much as it is just taking
longer to build these things than was originally predicted. But the
reason we did not set aside the long lead material is that there was
no way it was going to be spent in fiscal year 2012. So rather than
spending it on long lead material and just parking it, we decided
we would rather buy more response boats and smaller boats, as I
described in my opening statement.
So we put the money there. OMB has issued a letter saying that
we intend to fund number six, so if there is any hesitancy by the
contractor, they have us and OMB all saying we intend to fund
number six, but we are not going to simply park that precious fiscal year 2012 dollar. So you have extra assurance that we are going
to do that.
Senator COLLINS. Well, I am glad to hear that. I still think a 2year delay in the overall acquisition is going to end up costing us
more, but that is a discussion we can continue.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, and if I might Senator?
Senator COLLINS. Yes.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. It is not a delay caused by this. It is that
the construction of these cutters has becometheir missions have
expanded, and so their actual construction is taking longer than
was originally predicted.
Senator COLLINS. Thank you. I am going to submit the rest of my
questions.
I regret we did not get into air cargo security given the Yemen
package plot. There are so many issues. But I do want to allow
time for questions.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Collins. Senator
McCaskill.
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OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MCCASKILL
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Senator MCCASKILL. Yes. I think that is the theme I am hearing
from people, that they are not able to manage the shift power to
make them work. So we will stay with that and talk and figure
that out.
I know you have made a real effort about the contractors. I know
you have. And I know that you identified 3,500 contractor positions
last year that you are converting to Federal positions. Can you tell
us if there has been cost savings from the conversions from contractor personnel to Federal personnel?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, and we can give you some numbers,
but there have been cost savings, and we are this year accelerating
that conversion because as contracts come up, we can review and
not renew. So I will get you some actual numbers, but when this
Department was established, just because of the various mission
sets it had and just the business of standing up a department, it
had to rely a lot on outsiders to help. But as we mature, then we
can start reducing that, and we are being very aggressive about
that effort.
Senator MCCASKILL. Well, the cost savings is really important,
frankly, I do not have anything against contractors. I just want to
make sure that they are saving us money if we are using them.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Right.
Senator MCCASKILL. So if we are saving money by converting, I
would be thrilled to hear about that. And I bet we are.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, we are, and in someit is not just
saving money. It is, Are they doing work that we can do with our
own folks?
Senator MCCASKILL. Right. I know you also did an efficiency review that you initiated in March 2009. My staff has attended many
if not all of the budget briefings that you presented this week about
the various components. It is clear from those presentations that
your 2012 budget request, that cuts were made. Can you identify
the areas where the efficiency review has provided the savings to
the Department? Because I would like to carry this message to
other departments and tell them that there really is savings that
can be realized by this kind of effort.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Contracting, acquisition, procurement,
on-boardingi.e., vetting and identifyingalso simple office expenses that when you extrapolate to a large department save a lot
of money. There are several others. We have a whole briefing just
on this that we can provide for you. The contractor conversion
saves money and will save more money over time.
Senator MCCASKILL. Right.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. So we have identified in this budget $800
million or so, and that is a lot.
Senator MCCASKILL. That is a lot; $800 million is a lot.
Finally, I know you have to go, but I wanted to ask youlast
year, Senator Chuck Schumer and I were successful in getting
some legislation passed that provided for additional Border Patrol
personnel. It is my understanding that the House in its action yesterday on the CR, or the day before, has cut a lot of that money
that we identified as additional resources to be brought to the border.
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I have to tell you, I get whiplash sometimes around here. I listen
to sanctimonious speeches about more resources for border security
that is the only thing that we must focus on, securing our border
as it relates to all the immigration issues in our country. And then
5 minutes later, the same people that are giving the sanctimonious
speeches are yanking out the money in the budget that we need to
secure the border.
I assume that what they did yesterday basically wiped out what
we were able to add to this effort last year?
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Yes, it was an experience in whiplash.
Senator MCCASKILL. Yes. I just think we have to call folks on
this. I am sick of hearing lectures about border security and people
not being willing to put the resources behind it. This is nobodys
responsibility but the Federal Governments. We could probably afford to pull back a little bit of the big checks we are writing to the
oil companies to secure our borders. And I would like someone to
get that set of priorities straight and say, maybe we give a billion
less to the oil companies this year. Maybe they will not be the most
profitable corporations on the planet, but almost the most profitable corporations on the planet, and we actually put real resources
into securing the border.
But I for one am sick of hearing them talk about it if they are
not going to put their money where their mouth is, and I wanted
to get that out of my system, and I knew that you would let me.
Thank you, as always, for the great work you are doing. I think
you are a shining star in the Administration and doing very good
work. And I want you to stay on those contractors.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. All right. Thank you.
Senator MCCASKILL. Thank you, Madam Secretary.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. I cannot top shining star. [Laughter.]
I think you are good. Anyway, thanks, Secretary Napolitano.
What we have tried to do after these hearings is to sit and reason
ourselves, we will talk to you and your folks, and then make recommendations to the Budget Committee and the Appropriations
Committee as we go through the process. But thanks for your time,
and good luck on the trip to the White House.
Secretary NAPOLITANO. Well, thank you, and I think the Appropriations Subcommittee hearing is March 2, so we have some time
to work together.
Chairman LIEBERMAN. Excellent. We will keep the record of the
hearing open for 15 days for additional questions and statements.
The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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