39.4 Payasi S d23 Piya

D 2.
10
Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10
Pysi Sutta
The Pysi Discourse, Se: Pysi Rjaa Sutta The Prince Pysi Discourse | D 23
Theme: Karma, rebirth, and proper giving
Translated & annotated by Piya Tan 2007, 2012
1 Sutta themes
1.1 ABSTRACT: RIGHT VIEW AND RIGHT GIVING. The events of the Pysi Sutta (D 23) occur just
after the Buddhas parinirvana and the distribution of his relics, but just before the rains-retreat when the
first council1 is held at Rjagaha (VvA 297). It is rather interesting that such a powerful person as prince
Pysi, who holds such serious wrong views, has not met the Buddha in his life. From whatever evidence
we now have, it is difficult to know his age, but it is likely that he is a still young man, during his famous
debate with Kumra Kassapa. [1-30]
It is very likely that this story is told by the council elders (sagti,kra), not necessarily those of the
First Council, to encourage the post-Buddha laity to be disciplined and generous in their support of the
monastic order. Without the personal charisma of the Buddha, the monastics must now find a new source
of faith or reward that would inspire the laity to support the sanghathat is, the doctrines of karma and
rebirth. More specifically, as related at the close of the Sutta, is that any kind of generosity to the sangha
brings heavenly rebirth, but a proper giving to the sangha brings a higher heavenly rebirth. [30-32]
1.2 KUMRA KASSAPAS TEACHING STYLE. Kumra Kassapa2 is the foremost of the monks who
have the gift of variegated or versatile discourse (citta,kathikna).3 We have is sufficient evidence to
give us a good idea of his teaching style, which, as shown in the Pysi Sutta (D 23), is full of parables
and various argumentation styles.
Kumra Kassapas argumentation style, as evident from the Pysi Sutta, shows elements of polemics.4 Most of the arguments used by Kumra Kassapa in the Sutta are clearly polemical: they are aimed at
disproving what Pysi has proposed. In fact, much of the Sutta is devoted to such lively exchanges with
Pysi giving points against karma and rebirth, and Kumra Kassapa countering these very points.
In modern terms, however, Kumra Kassapas argumentation style might be said to be prolix, but
considering the cultural context, it is an effective, even popular, style, as it wins prince Pysi over to
right view. In fact, Pysi admits that Even with master Kassapas first parable, I am already convinced,
but he continues playing an adversary (a devils advocate) because he desires to hear [Kumra Kassapas] ready wit in answering diverse questions, and regards him as a worthy adversary 5 [30.1 & nn].6
2 Sutta summary and highlights.

2.1 ARGUMENTS SUMMARY
2.1.1 Parables. The debate between Pysi and Kumra Kassapa opens with the former stating his
wrong view [5.1]. Pysi gives a total of 8 arguments while Kumra Kassapa counters them with 10
parables. Towards the end of the debate Pysi, having run out of options, still refuses to recant, Kumra
Kassapa gives another 5 closing parables, thus giving a total of 15 parables in allthe most that is found
in a single sutta. (The last parable is actually a set of two parables: the bad seeds in a bad field, and the
good seeds in a good field.)
On its canonical account, see The Five Hundred (Cv 11 @ V 2:284-293).

Kumra Kassapa: for details, see SD 28.13 (2).
3
A 1:24; AA 1:283, 2:336.
4
Greek, war, ie, a war of words.
5
A similar sentiment is expressed by the erstwhile Jain follower, Upli, to the Buddha, in Upli S (M 56.15/1:378), SD 27.1.
6
For more details on polemics and apologetics, see Psdika S (D 29) @ SD 40a.6 (4).
2
http://dharmafarer.org
55
SD 39.4
( )
(1)
(2)
(3)
( )
(4)
(5)
(6)
(7)
(8)
Pysi arguments
Wrong views stated
Hell beings do not return
Heavenly beings do not return
Tvatisa devas do not return
Pysi does not have the divine eye
Why dont the good kill themselves?
No life-force emerged from the jar
Life-force cannot be weighed
Defleshing a carcass
Defleshing a living person
( ) Pysis obdurateness
D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

Kumra Kassapas parables
(1) The sun and the moon
(2) The thief to be executed
(3) The man in the cesspool
(4) Tvatisa (relativity of time)
(5) The one born blind
(6) The womb
(7) The dream
(8) The glowing iron ball
(9) The conch-shell
(10) The fire-worshipping
matted-hair ascetic
(11) The two caravan guides
(12) The dung-porter
(13) The dice players
(14) The hemp load
(15) The seeds and the fields
References
5.1-5
6-7
8-9
10+11.1-6
11.7-13
12+13
14+15
16+17
18+19
20+21
22+23
24+25
26+27
28+29
31
At 30.1, Pysi admits that he is already convinced with the first parable, but continues to contradict
the elder simply out of the desire to hear master Kassapas various insights into the problem.
2.1.2 Pysis philosophy. Jayatilleke identifies Pysis philosophy or views as those of the Positivist branch of the Materialists. Positivism is a philosophical system that only accepts reports of sensory
experience as the source of all authoritative knowledge, and that valid knowledge or truth is found only in
this derived knowledge.7 Basically, materialism is a philsophical view that only matter is existent or real
(and that mental experiences are all caused by material states).
Pysis basic argument, like those of the materialists, is best represented here by this statement: I
know not this, nor do I see this; therefore they do not exist (aham eta na jnmi, aham eta na
passmi, tasm ta natthti) [11.7, 11.8]. It is wrong to infer from I do not see X that X does not
exist. We can simply rebutt, for example, by saying, If I were to enter a dark room, and not see any
furniture therein or know that the floor has uneven spots and holes, does this mean they do not exist, and
that I would not stumble or fall?
In the Pysi Sutta, Kumra Kassapa rebutts this wrong view with the parable of the blind born man
(jaccandha purisa) who claims that since he cannot see forms of various colours, the stars, the moon and
the sun, they do not exist [11.7+8]. Similarly, just because the hereafter are beyond the purview of our
physical senses, does not mean that it does not exist. This is however still perceivable or observable by
means of the divine eye, purified, superhuman [11.11].
Mdhava Vidyraya,8 in his Sarva,darana,sagraha, gives a more philosophical rebuttal: When
you deny the existence of an object on the ground of its not being perceived, you yourself admit an
inference of which non-perception is the middle term9 (Cowell (tr), 1882:14).10 In simple terms, we can
7
For a discussion on Pysis views, see Jayatilleke, 1963:104-106.

A 14th cent Hindu philosopher and kingmaker of the south Indian empire of Vijayanagar, and proponent of the
Advaita (non-dualist) school (to be distinguished from Advaita Vednta). Sarva,darana,sagraha (Compendium of All Views), his major work survey the 16 main schools of ancient Indian thought.
9
Anupalabdhy kacidartha pratiedhayatnupalabdhyaligakamanumnam. In logic, a middle term a subject
or predicate of a categorical proposition in both premises, but not in the conclusion of a categorical syllogism. The
middle term (in bold below) must be distributed in at least one premise but not in the conclusion. The major term
and the minor terms, also called the end terms, do appear in the conclusion (with the middle term in bold), thus:
Major premise:
All men are mortal.
Minor premise:
Socrates is a man.
Conclusion:
Socretae is mortal.
8
56
D 2.10
put it this way: You claim that ghosts do not exist. By your own denial, you have accepted at least the
concept of ghosts, hence, their possible existence. In that sense, they exist, at least in the mind or
imagination.
Such an argument has its limits, simply because we cannot define anything into existence. For example, no matter how carefully or cleverly I define God or a unicorn, does not meant that either of them
actually exist. This kind of argumenr is only helpful when we have actually directly experienced something for ourselves, and we are trying to convince others (who have no experience of it) that it actually
exists (is real) or has value (is true).11 [11.10-11.13]
2.2 SYNOPTIC SUMMARY
2.2.1 Pysis wrong views
[1.1-2.4] The Pysi Sutta opens with the elder Kumra Kassapa visiting Setavy which is governed by prince Pysi, who rejects the notions of other worlds (and after-life), karma and rebirth [2.1].
Noticing that Kumra Kassapas influence is growing in his area, he decides to debate with him [3.1-4].
Kumra Kassapa replies that he had not met any one before with such wrong views [5.1-2], and starts off
the debate with the parable of the sun and the moon [5.3-5]: they are not in our world (on earth) but
exist independently; hence, other worlds exist.12 Pysi rejects his explanation [6.1-6.3].
[6.4-10] Pysi then argues that he knows immoral people who, as such, would be reborn in some
suffering states, but they do not return to confirm with him of such states, despite agreeing to do so earlier
on. Kassapa, using the parable of the thief, tells Pysi that the thief to be executed would never get
leave from the executioner to visit his relatives; even so, the hell-being would not be able to take leave of
the hell wardens to return to earth [7]!13
[8-10] Pysi then argues that he has morally virtuous colleagues, who would as such be reborn in
the heavens, but none of them has returned to confirm it, as agreed earlier on. Using the parable of the
cesspool, Kumra Kassapa explains that the Tvatisa devas, finding humans physically repulsive,
would unlikely come down to earth [8-9].
[11.1-5] The Tvatisa parable illustrates the relativity of interworld time: one day in Tvatisa
is equivalent to a hundred earth years [11.1]. By the time these divine beings settle in and report back,
Pysi and company would have been dead! [11.5]
Pysi then challenges Kassapa as to how he knows about Tvatisa [11.6]. Using the parable of
the one born blind [11.7-13], Kassapa points to the divine eye, that is, the power of meditation-based
psychic power. Pysi then argues, in that case, why dont the good simply kill themselves since they
know that they will go to heaven [12].
[13] Using the womb parable, Kassapa gives 3 answers: (1) that such acts would prevent the accumulated good karma from fruiting [13.12-13]; (2) their continued living benefits others [13.14], and (3)
that they wish to continue living to cultivate greater merit for even higher rebirth [13.15].
2.2.2 Pysis gruesome experiments. Next, Pysi plays the role of a modern-day scientist, using
4 gruesome experiments to prove his point, that of detecting any life-force (or consciousness). (There is
no evidence that he has actually carried out these experiments, but probably merely mentions them in
theoretical terms for arguments sake.) Pysis idea is that if there is some kind of life-force, then it
can be somehow detected at the moment of dying. If such a life-force exists, then the karma-rebirth
doctrine is true; if not, it is false.
10
Sarva,darana,Sagraha, ed V S Abhyakar, 2nd ed, Poona, 1951. Tr E B Cowell & A E Gough,The Sarvadaranasagraha, London, 1882. https://archive.org/details/Sarva-Darsana-Samgraha.by.MadhavacharyaVidyaranya.tr.by.E.B.Cowell.
11
See Jayatilleke 1963:72 f.
12
See below, where Pysi admits that he is already convinced with this parable, but continues to contradict the
elder out of the desire to hear master Kassapas various insights into the problem [30.1].
13
Cf Aatara Purisa Vatthu (DhA 5.1) where hell-beings try to communicate their sufferings to Pasenadi, but
succeed in only making the sounds du sa na so. (DhA 5.1/2:1-19)
57
SD 39.4
[14] THE 1ST EXPERIMENT. In the first experiment, a criminal is sealed in a large air-tight jar. When it
is ascertained that he is dead, the pot-cover is carefully unsealed, but no sign of any life-force is seen
emerging from it. [15] Kassapa counters with the dream parable, declaring that even when we dream,
nothing, as it were, leaves our body.
[16] THE 2ND EXPERIMENT. Pysi now suggests an experiment where a criminal is weighed twice:
firstly, before being executed, and after that. In fact, he is heavier post-mortem. (Understandably, this
must have been a well-known fact at that time, even without any experiement by the Pysi.) To Pysi,
this means that the poor man has no life-force or consciousness.
[17] Kassapa replies with the glowing iron ball parable, pointing out that even an inanimate object
shows the same results: the glowing iron ball is heavier when cool, but lighter when glowing hot. The
human body, too, while alive, is lighter than post-mortem, but the living body has vitality, body-heat and
consciousness.14 The implicit understanding here is that these qualities are immaterial and hence have neither form nor weight. Whether the life-force (according to Pysi) exists or not has no bearing on the
validity of karma, rebirth and other worlds.
[18] THE 3RD EXPERIMENT. A thief is tortured until half-dead, and then examined in various positions
[18.4-14]; he is pounded with different objects [18.15-19]; and his 5 physical sense-organs examined
[18.20-25]none of them show any evidence of a life-force.
[19] Using the conch-shell parable, Kassapa shows how the conchs sound is not stored within the
shell. Only when an agent (the man) makes an effort to blow a stream of air into the conch does it make a
sound.
[20] THE 4TH EXPERIMENT. Pysis last gruesome and cruel experiment is that of excarnating or defleshing a living body, in the same manner as for the carcass [above]. At no point, is any life-force found.
[21] Kassapa counters with an elaborate parablethat of the fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic
(or the parable of the fire-sticks, for short). A fire-worshippers acolyte tries to look for the fire hidden in
the fire-sticks by breaking it up, chopping it into tiny pieces, to the point of winnowing the remnants. No
fire is found. Fire is not inherent in the wood, but arises from the meeting of the right conditions.15 Kassapa then warns Pysi on the dangers of holding on to wrong views [21.22].
2.2.3 Pysi is obdurate. [22] Finally, despite running out of options, Pysi, out of self-pride, admits that he still cannot change his views. The king of Kosala and foreign kings well know that Pysi
holds such views, so that if he were to change his views, he would lose face. As such, he would rather be
ridiculed for his wrong views than to give them up! [22.3].
[23] Kassapa now responds with the parable of the two caravan guides. Kassapa warns Pysi not
to be like the foolish caravan guide who blindly listens and follows the advice of a yaksha that there is
sufficient water and supplies in the journey ahead, and so discards all his old supplies. In due course, running out of food and water in the wilderness, the whole caravan perishes by being devoured by the yaksha
[23.1-10]. The wise caravan-leader refuses to listen to a strangers advice and holds on to his supplies
and survives the journey [23.11-23].
[24] Pysi remains obdurate, so that Kassapa comes up with a more powerful parablethat of the
dung-porter [25]. A man finds some dry dung (clearly cow-dung) to feed to his pigs with. Packing them
into his cloak, he carries it on his head. Then rain falls on him, making the wet dung trickle all over him.
Despite comments from passers-by, he persists in carrying the disgusting load on his head. Pysi remains
unmoved [26].
14
Vitality (yu), body-heat (usm) and consciousness (via): yu usu means life-span, age, longevity, but
here means life, vitality, life-force. In the suttas, heat (usm,also usum; Skt man) is the life-faculty itself,
karma-born heat (of the living body) (MA 2:350): D 2:335,15; M 1:295,24 S 2:97,10 = 4:215,23 = 5:212,22; S
2:83,9, 3:143,4*, 4:294,21. Comy, however, explains yu as the form life-faculty (rpa,jvitindriya); usm,
heat, as karma-generated heat element (kammaja,tejo,dhtu), and via, consciousness, as the mind
(citta) (MA 2:351). See Mah,vedalla S (M 43.24+25/1:295 f), SD 30.2.
15
The ancient brahmins believed that fire (the god Agni) resides in wood, so that it burns for that reasons: see
Aggi Vaccha,gotta S (M 72) @ SD 6.15 (4).
58
D 2.10
[27] Kassapa next uses the parable of the dice-players. One of them has the habit of swallowing
his dice whenever he has an unlucky throw. His partner notices this and secretly poisons his dice, so that
the first player keeps swallowing the toxic dice to his harm. [28] Pysi gives the same excuse.
2.2.4 Positive change. [29] Kassapa gives his last parablethe parable of the hempfittingly the
most beautiful in the Sutta. Two friends go to a foreign country to seek their fortune. They find discarded
hemp, and each make a bundle of it to take home. Their fortune keeps growing as they successively find
hempen thread, hempen cloth, flax, flaxen threads, linen cloth, cotton, cotton threads, cotton cloth, iron,
copper, tin, lead, silver and finally gold.
The wise friend discards his old load for a more valuable one.16 The other friend declares that he has
carried his load a long way and it is well tied up [29.67], and it would be too much trouble to re-pack!
Understandably, when they reach home, the wise friend happily enjoys his wealth with his family and
friends, while the foolish one remains poor, living a hard life. [29.71].
[30] Pysi finally admits that he is actually convinced by Kassapas teaching from the very first
parable. But I thought that I would contradict simply out of the desire to hear master Kassapas various
insights into the problem. [30.1], and then goes for refuge [30.2].
2.2.5 Pysi recants. [30.3-31.2] Inspired, Pysi then tells Kassapa that he wishes to make a
great sacrifice for his long life and happiness, and seek his advice. Kassapa instructs him using the parable of the bad seeds in a poor field [31.2], reflecting an unwholesome sacrifice, involving killing
[31.1], and the parable of the good seeds in a good field [31.4], that is, a wholesome sacrifice [31.3
+6].
[32.2-10] Pysi gets the brahmin youth Uttara to supervise the almsgiving, but offers poor food
and cloth [32.1]. Uttara declares his disapproval [32.2-4], and Pysi has him upgrade the offerings
[32.9-10]. Uttara does so and carries out the almsgiving proper in every detail.
As a result of their actions, Pysi, when he dies is reborn amongst the devas of the Four Guardian
Kings (the lowest of the heavens) [32.11], while Uttara is reborn in Tvatisa [32.12]. The arhat Gavam,pati meets the devaputra Pysi in his heaven. He explains to Gavampati that his low rebirth is due to
his improper giving and having held onto wrong views [32.13-16]. Uttara, on the other hand, having
given almsgiving properly, is reborn in Tvatisa [32.17]. Pysi then requests Gavam,pati to instruct
humans on how to give properly for a heavenly rebirth [32.19-21].
3 Prince Pysi
3.1 ON THE TERM RJAA. Pysi is a prince (rjaa), a term which comes from rj, king,
and probably related to the Vedic term rjanya, royalty (PED), or high courtier, prince, kshatriya.17 A
few translators have also used the word chieftain here.18 This stock passage describes Pysis social
status:
Now at that time, Pysi was living in [was
governing]19 Setavy, teeming with life,20 with
grass, wood and water, with rice, a royal domain
presented (to him) by Pasenadi, the rajah of
Tena kho pana samayena pysi rjao

setavya ajjhvasati sattussada sa,tia, kahodaka sa,dhaa rja,bhogga
ra pasenadin kosalena dinna rja,-
16
Cf If by giving up a limited happiness, | when he sees abundant happiness, | let the wise abandon the limited
happiness, | considering the abundant happiness (matt,sukha,pariccag | passe ce vipula sukha || caje matt
sukha dhiro | sampassa vipula sukha || Dh 290).
17
Cf uggehi v rjanyehi, with high nobles or royal princes (D 1:103,31). In Pysi S (D 23), rjao (voc)
occurs at least 90 times, while rajao (3 sg) at least 25 times.
18
Esp T W Rhys Davids (D:RD 2:347-375) & M Walshe (D:W 351-368).
19
Ajjhvasati has the senses of living (as in leading a household life) and living as a lord (over a fief, etc).
20
Sattussada = satta + ussada, lit abundance of beings, ie densely populated with humans and animals.
Comy however refers only to humans: sattussada means crowded with beings, teeming with the masses, an abundance of humans (sattussadan ti sattehi ussada, ussanna bahu,jana kia,manussa, DA 245,20).
59
SD 39.4
Kosala, as a royal gift, a brahmadeya [a fief].

dya brahma,deyya.
[1.2]
The phrase living in (ajjhvasati) also means governing here, translated idiomatically. His domain, a royal gift, a brahmadeya [a fief],21 a rich, fertile and well-populated place, is given by rajah Pasenadi. This pericope (stock passage) describes brahmins with their respective brahmadeyas.22 It is clear,
however, that Pysi is a kshatriya (khattiya), a member of the noble or warrior class.
The Commentary here glosses rjaa as an unconsecrated rajah (anabhisittaka,rj, DA 3:808).
However, in the compound, rjaa,kula (royal clan), especially in the Assalyana Sutta (M 93)23 and
the Esukr Sutta (M 96)24 in the compound khattiya,kul brhmaa,kul rjaa,kul, showing that it
is not a synonym of khattiya, but simply an adjective meaning royal, etc.25 Evidently, while khattiya
refers to a (noble) warrior, rjaa refers specifically to the actual ruling royalty or royal elite. It is thus
clear that Pysi is a kshatriya.
3.2 PYSI IN THE SUTTAS
3.2.1 Domain lord. Pysi is a prince or chieftain (rjaa) of Setavy, lording over a brahmadeya
or royal domain granted by rajah Pasenadi. He holds the view that there is no world other than this, no
fruit of actions and no rebirthin other words, he rejects the notions of karma and rebirth, two basic Buddhist teachings. [2.1 etc]
Pysi meets the elder Kumra Kassapa, who is staying in the simsapa forest outside Setavy. After a
debate with the elder, he realizes his views are wrong and finally recants. Then, he makes a public almsgiving. The gifts are, however, poor food and rough cloth, and he does not himself participate in the giving. [30-32]
3.2.2 Two kinds of giving. Pysis public giving is supervised by a brahmin youth, Uttara, a retainer in Pysis household. After noticing the poor gifts, and lack of care in the giving, Uttara voices his
disapproval, so that Pysi upgrades his giving, but nevertheless has Uttara supervising it all the same,
without Pysis personal participation.26
It is clear that givers are never fruitless (dyak ca anipphal).27 Even though Pysis giving is
poor, careless and vicarious, he enjoys its benefits accordingly. After death, he is born among the devas of
the 4 great kings (ctum,mah.rjika), the lowest of the heavens (located in the sense-world), while Uttara, who gives wholesome gifts, with care and participation, is reborn in the heaven of the 33 (tva,tisa),
a higher celestial realm. [32.1-12]
21
Brahma,deyya (Skt brahma,deya) a supreme gift, ie land granted to brahmins by the kings of Kosala (Ambaha S, D 3.1.1b/1:87 @ SD 21.3) or of Magadha (Ka,danta S, D 5.1b/1:127 @ SD 22.8) for perpetuity. Unlike
donated monastic lands, which are the corporate property of the sangha of the four directions, the brahmadeya is
the brahmins personal property or fief, which he uses for agriculture. See D:RD 1:108 n1 & Uma Chakravarti
1987:57.
22
The brahmins & their resp donors incl: Ambaha S (ukkahara pasenadi,kosalena, D 3.1.1/1:87),
Soa,daa S (campara mgadhena seniyena bimbisrena, D 1.1/1:111, 1.4/114), Ka,danta S (khu,matara mgadhena seniyena bimbisrena, D 5.1/1:127, 131), Lohicca S (sla,vatika ra pasenadi,kosalena, D 7.1/1:224), Pysi S (setavyyara pasenadi,kosalena, D 23.1/2:316); Cak S (opasda...ra pasenadin kosalena, M 95.1/2:164, 95.8/166); cf Amba,sakkhara Pv: sattussada niraya, a hell crowded
with beings (Pv 4.1.8/46).
23
M 93/2:152,11+22 @ SD 40a.2.
24
M 96/2:183,14+22+33 @ SD 37.9.
25
As at Mvst 2.112.9, where rjanya means belonging to a king, royal: of a park (udyna), Mvst 2.122.11.
(BHSD)
26
Malalasekera, prob uncertain of the Ce reading byvao [32.2n], suggests that Uttara spoke sarcastically of
Pysis generosity (DPPN 1:351) because he was passed over, spoke scornfully of the gifts (DPPN 2:127). It is
most unlikely that such a negative response by Pysi would have resulted in Uttaras rebirth in Tvatisa.
27
Dyakopi anipphalo, (Saddha) Jussoi S (A 10.177.9/5:270), SD 2.6a. A-ni-p,phala, not without fruit, not
unrewarded, not without merit, a double neg (Udena S, U 7.10/79,21, pl ~[ni]; = na nipphal sampatta,smaa,phal, UA 384) = DhA 1:222,2; (Saddha) Jussoi S (A 10.177/5:271,1, 273,8 f, dyako pi ~o), qu PvA 28,27);
Tirokua S, dyak ca ~, Khp 7.6/6* (KhpA 212) = Pv 1.5.5/11* (PvA 28) 18.
60
D 2.10
The arhat Gavam,pati meets Pysi in the deva world, and Pysi requests that he teaches humans to
give wholesome offerings, with care, and with their own hands [32.13-21].28 The devaputra Pysi is
also known as Sersaka deva,putta because he lives in the Acacia Mansion (sersaka vimna).29 His mansion story (vimna,vatthu) is found in chapter 6 of the Vimna Vatthu, which is entitled the Pysi
chapter (pysi,vagga), and is related to the last story in that chapter, which, however, is called the Uttara Vimna,vatthu.
3.3 THE KUMRA KASSAPA-PYSI DEBATE
3.3.1 Kumra Kassapas pariyya approach. The key word in Kumra Kassapas argument with
Pysi has so far not been pointed in any scholarly writings. On account of this oversight, I suspect that
teachers and scholars have not been able to fully appreciate or fathom the debate in the Pysi Sutta. Stephen Evans, for example, even faults Kumra Kassapa with the use of false dilemma, equivocation,
begging the question, and fear in his arguments (2008:66). Once we understand the meanings and usages
of the term pariyya as used here, it is easier to appreciate Kumra Kassapa and the significance of the
Sutta as a whole.
This Suttas key word, pariyya, which occurs 56 times in the Pysi Sutta, are listed below. The
asterisk (*) here means that the reference (phrase) has two occurrences of pariyya (each in a different
sense). The first sense is that of a reason (in the case of Pysi) and the second, in a manner of speaking (in the case of Kumra Kassapa), thus:
(1)
(2)
(3)
(4)
(5)
(6)
(7)
(8)
(9)
Occurrences of pariyya in Pysi Sutta

The parable of the sun and the moon
The parable of the thief
The parable of the man in the cesspool
The Tvatisa parable
The parable of the one born blind
The womb parable
The parable of the dream
The parable of the glowing iron ball
The parable of the conch-shell
References
5.5, 6.2*+3*+10*.
7.8, 8.1*+3*+10*.
9.11, 10.2*+3*+10*.
11.13, 12.2*+3*+8*.
13.6, 14.2*+3*+10*.
15.6, 16.2*+3*+9*.
17.6, 18.2*+3*+25*.
19.13, 20.2*+3*+8*.
The word pariyya, however, is not found in the remaining 5 parables of Kumra Kassapas. The
term as used by Kumra Kassapa to qualify all his parables and arguments has the sense of in a manner
of speaking or relatively speaking. The meaning of pariyya as applied here is best understood in the
light of the Neyyattha Ntattha Sutta (A 2.3.5+6), where the Buddha states that we should take special
care, when explaining the suttas to distinguish between suttas or teachings whose sense has been drawn
out (ntattha) and whose sense needs to be drawn out (neyyattha).30
Those suttas or teachings that tell stories, describe ritual acts, or that talk of beings, gods, etc,
need to have their meaning drawn out (neyyattha), as they do not directly refer to true reality: they are
indirect teachings. They use language and words in the form of a story or images to talk about true reality.
Their meaning is indirect. They are provisional (pariyya) teachings, unlike say some Abhidhamma
doctrines, which are said to be explicit (nippariyyena).31
On the other hand, Dharma teachings using words and terms like impermanent, suffering, not
self, aggregate, and consciousness, are direct teachings. While the indirect teachings, especially stories and parables, can be generally said to work at helping to clear the mind of wrong views or to inspire it
with joy,32 the direct teachings are instructions relating to clarifying right view in greater depth and detail,
and in mental cultivation.
28
VvA 297f, 331 f.

Vv 74/6.10/109 f.
30
A 2.3.5+6/1:60 @ SD 2.6b.
31
See Pariyya Nippariyya, SD 33.2(2.1) + SD 68.2.
32
See SD 11.4 (4.3).
29
61
SD 39.4
It is, however, unclear how Pysi would understand the same word pariyya which also has the
sense of reasoning here, at least to Pysis mind surely. However, let us give him the benefit of the
doubt, but for us who are more interested in the spiritual import of Kumra Kassapas teachings, pariyya
has been translated according to their respective contexts throughout.33
3.3.2 Pysi as a scientist
3.3.2.1 BUDDHISM AS MYTH. At least one contemporary scholar, Stephen A Evans, has explored the
Pysi Sutta from an academic angle, that is, Pysi as a proto-scientist, on account of his various argumentations and purported experiments [2.1]. Evans discusses whether the karma-rebirth mythology
that is, Pysis ideas criticized by Kumra Kassapa as being misguded and dangerouscan be expressed
in scientific-empirical, falsifiable terms. Clearly for the elder, a spokesman for the early Buddhists, the
karma-rebirth mythology cannotor must notbe put into falsifiable, empirically testable form. As these
are, in fact, moral categories and intuitive realities, the scientific-empirical methods are inappropriate as
means of approaching them (2008:53).34
The moral categories of Buddhismor more simply, the training in moral virtuedeals with the
purification (that is, the disciplining) of our body and speech, so that they serve as the supports for the
intuitive realities, that is, the training in mental concentration. The gap between the moral categories and
the intuitive realities is often so vast and deep that our conventional language often fails to bridge it.
Often the language of myth and myths is resorted to here. Sometimes the language speaks on a higher
level, using stories, parables and figures.
The idea of taking Buddhist teaching, especially its language, as myth, is not new. Even in my monk
years (1970-1990), I was familiar with a vision of Buddhism as mythology, but I dont think Im the only
one doing so. Back in 2007, I began working on an approach to Myth in Buddhism (SD 36.1). The
Buddhist teachingssuch as those of karma and rebirth, and its numerous accounts and stories of moral
virtue, personal growth and awakeningare best described as myths, in the sense of pointing to something bigger than we are. This motif is essentially at the heart of folklore and fairy-tales, and the great
literary works of all cultures.
3.3.2.2 BUDDHISM AND SCIENCE. The first important idea we need to understand in any comparative
study of Buddhism and science must clearly be the scientific method, which includes the formulation
and testing of hypotheses, with the in principle possible results that might show the theory to be
wrong.35 Both the Buddhist method and the scientific method make careful observation of both the 5
sense-faculties and the 5 sense-objects. While science measures such observations, Buddhism carefully
reflects on the persistent patterns of reality that our senses reveal.
While the scientific method verifies the truth of hypothesis or test a theory by performing some experiment, the Buddhist method is that of meditating on such patterns of reality. Instead of accumulating data
and deducing truths from them, the Buddhist method goes on to seek patterns of reality that still the mind
so that we can touch the depths of our own minds beyond the reach of any scientific instrument or the ken
of any scientist.
Buddhism is not science; their respective methodologies and goals, too, are radically different. While
science makes external measurements of the world (the 5 senses), Buddhism reflects back from the
external realities, putting in order the physical bases of personal development (body and speech) to clear
the path into inner reality (the mind). The mind is both the final measure of all realities, and also the true
liberator of all measuring of realitiesthe mind looks at itself in full awakening.
4 The brahmin youth Uttara
33
For a fuller discussion on pariyya, see Pariyya nippariyya, SD 68.2.

Here, the student is enouraged to read Evans paper in full bore proceeding. Hereafter, I will only discuss a few
main points relating to Buddhism and science.
35
Popper 1959:20-25, 40-42.
34
62
D 2.10
4.1 UTTARA, PYSIS OFFERING SUPERVISOR. The brahmin youth Uttara (uttara,mnava) is probably a pupil of Prsariya, a Rjagaha brahmin.36 Uttaras visiting the Buddha in a mukhelu forest (mukhelu,vana) at Kajagala is the background of the Indriya,bhvan Sutta (M 152).37
Uttara here is probably the same brahmin youth of the Pysi Sutta [32]. When prince Pysi [2] is
converted by the elder Kumra Kassapa, Pysi makes a public offering, but his gifts are broken rice
gruel with vinegar, and very rough cloth. The brahmin youth, Uttara, one of his retainers, and the offerings supervisor vents his disapproval.
Pysi then instructs Uttara to make the proper offerings, but still does not himself participate. Uttara
wholeheartedly makes, with his own hands, the proper offerings of excellent foods and cloths. As a result,
after death, while Pysi is reborn only in the empty Sersaka (Acacia) mansion [3.2] of Four Great Kings
(ctum,mah.rjika) devas, Uttara arises in Tvatisa. [32.1-12]
4.2 SERSAKA MANSION. The celestial mansion (vimna), called Acacia (serissaka or sersaka) is an
empty mansion in the heaven of the Four Great Kings (ctum,mah,rjika).38 The deva of the mansion is
also called Ser,saka, evidently the same as the yaksha Serissaka. The Dgha Commentary says that the
mansion is so called because there is, at its entrance, a great sirissa (sirsa; Acacia sirissa) tree (or forest,
says the Theri,gth Commentary), which flowers and fruits once in fifty years.39
The deva Gavampati, it is said, uses the mansion when he was still a deva. After his rebirth as a human, the mansion falls empty until occupied by Pysi. As an arhat, however, Gavam,pati, still goes there
for his day residence, that is, meditation and rest during the heat of the day [32.13].
This is the mansion into which the devaputra Pysi is reborn as a result of his offering, on account of
his carelessness in it [32.11]. Compared to Uttaras rebirth in Tvatisa, this is a much lower heaven.
Vessavaa, the guardian king of the north, it is said, stations him in a desert, shadeless and waterless, to
protect travellers from the dangers of non-humans.
It is said that he meets some merchants from Aga and Magadha who have lost their way en route to
Sindhu,sovira.40 He reveals his identity, and they offer to hold a festival in his honour on reaching safety.
He however suggests that offerings be given in his name to a pious man, named Sambhava, who was in
their company. Later Sambhava renounces the world and becomes an arhat (Vv 7.10; VvA 331).

36
Prsariya is a brahmin teacher mentions in Indriya,bhvan S (M 152). According to his pupil, Uttara, he
(Prsariya) teaches that those who have developed their physical sense-faculties (indriya) could neither see forms
with their eyes nor hear sounds with their ears, to which the Buddha retorts that in that case the blind or the dumb
would be spiritually advanced (M 152.2.2/3:298), SD 17.13. He is poss identical with the elder Prpariya. See
DPPN svv Prpariya; Prsariya; also Tha:RD 295 n1.
37
M 152/3:298-301 @ SD 17.13.
38
Ctum,mah.rjik is the lowest of the deva worlds, and part of the sense-world. the 4 great kings (mah.rja) are the guardians of the four quarters of our universe, ie, Dhata,raha (east), Virlhaka (south), Virpakkha
(west) and Vessavaa (north). According to ancient Buddhist cosmology, the Ctum,mah.rjik world is located
half-way up Mount Sineru (the axis mundi or galactic pole). Some of these devas dwell in the mountain itself, while
others in the surounding sky. (D 2:207 f, 3:194 f).
39
DA 3:814; cf ThaA 1:100; VvA 331.
40
VvA 337.
63
SD 39.4
The Pysi Discourse

D 23
Thus have I heard.
Kumra Kassapa arrives at Setavy
1 At one time, the venerable Kumra Kassapa41 was walking by stages on a Dharma-tour [peregrinating] in Kosala country with a large community of monks, numbering some five hundred. They arrived at
the Kosala town of Setavy42 and stayed in the simsapa forest43 north of Setavy.
There, the venerable Kumra Kassapa resided to the north of Setavy, in a simsapa forest.
1.2 Now, at that time, prince44 Pysi45 was living in [was governing]46 Setavy, teeming with life,47
with grass, wood and water, with rice, a royal domain presented (to him) by Pasenadi, the rajah of Kosala,
as a royal gift, a brahmadeya [a fief].48
Prince Pysi
2
Now, at that time, the following views arose to prince Pysi, thus:49
There is no other world.50
natthi paro loko
There are no spontaneously born beings.51
natthi satt opaptik
41
On Kumra Kassapa, see SD 28.13 (2).

Setavy is a town or large village near Ukkah in Kosala: see SD 36.13 (3.2).
43
On the simsapa (P sisap; Skt iap; Pkt ssava, ssama; Nepal, sisau), Dalbergia sissoo, see SD 21.7 Intro.
44
Prince, rjaa, which Comy here glosses it as unconsecrated rajah (anabhisittaka,rj, DA 3:808): see
Intro (2.1).
45
There are 2 possible etyms to this name: (1) from pysa (rich boiled in milk, milk-rice), ie one who is fed of
milk-rice; or (2) from pyti (he sets out (on aourney), whose comes aor pysi, he set out [23.5 n]. Comy is
silent.
On the possible etym of this name, see 23.5 n.
46
Ajjhvasati has the senses of living (as in leading a household life) and living as a lord (over a fief, etc).
47
Sattussada = satta + ussada, lit abundance of beings, ie densely populated with humans and animals.
Comy however refers only to humans: sattussada means crowded with beings, teeming with the masses, an abundance of humans (sattussadan ti sattehi ussada, ussanna bahu,jana kia,manussa, DA 245,20).
48
Tena kho pana samayena pysi rjao setavya ajjhvasati sattussada sa,tia,kahodaka sa,dhaa
rja,bhogga ra pasenadin kosalena dinna rja,dya brahma,deyya.. This is stock: see Intro.
49
Tena kho pana samayena pysissa rjaassa eva,rpa ppaka dihi,gata uppanna hoti. The next
para: natthi paro loko, natthi satt opaptik, natthi sukata.dukkana kammna phala vipko. This is a brief
def of wrong view. The fuller def occurs in Sleyyaka S (M 41,10/1:287), SD 5.7 & Apaaka S (M 60,5-12/1:402-404), SD 35.5. For comys on such wrong views, see Bodhi 1989:69-86 (on Smaa,phala S, D 2). See foll
nn.
50
Natthi para,loko. Cf a better known def of wrong view: There is this world, no other world, natthi aya
loko, natthi para,loko, lit this world does not exist, the other world [after-life] does not exist, ie, there ie neither
other worlds (or universes) nor the afterlife. In other words, this is the only world and only life. On the problem of
associating these two differing views to Ajita Kesambala, see Smaa,phala S (D 2,22-24/1:55 f), SD 8. See
Jayatilleke 1963: 79 f, 91 f.
51
Opaptika (BHS aupapduka), arising spontaneously, being reborn without parents; from upapta, coming
into existence, birth. Technically, it usu refers to a non-returners birth, but is here prob a generic term for all divine
and subhumans, such as hell beings [11.11]. Comys says that such a being springs up, as it were, without the need
of any of the visible causes that support other modes of birth, viz, the oviparous (aa,ja), the viviparous (jalbu,ja)
and the moisture-born (saseda,ja) (MA 2:38): these are the 4 modes of birth. The sutta passage here [2.1] is essentially a rejection of rebirth, implying that this is our only life, a kind of materialism. See Mahli S (D 6/1:27,
156).
42
64
D 2.10

There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions.52 [317]
natthi sukata,dukkana
kammna phala vipko
2.2 The brahmin housemasters53 of Setavy heard this:

It is said that master Kumra Kassapa, a disciple of the recluse Gotama, is walking by stages on a
Dharma-tour [peregrinating] in Kosala country with a large community of monks, numbering some five
hundred. They have arrived at the Kosala town of Setavy and are staying in the simsapa forest north of
Setvy.
2.3 Now this good report about master Kumra Kassapa has been going around thus:
He is intelligent, experienced, wise, deeply learned, versatile speaker, of excellent wit [witty in the
good], mature and truly worthy!54
It is good indeed to see arhats such as these.55
2.4 Then the brahmin housemasters of Setavy left Setavy in group after group according to their
district,56 or in small bands, heading northward for the the simsapa forest.57
Pysi learns of Kumra Kassapas visit
3 Now at that time, prince Pysi had gone up to the upper terrace of his palace58 for a day rest.59
Prince Pysi saw the brahmin housemasters of Setavy leaving Setavy in bands, group after group,
heading northward for the simsapa forest.
52
This is essentially a rejection of karma or accountability for our actions (akiriya,vda), implying antinomianism
and amoralism, as in the ideas of Praa Kassapa: see Smaa,phala S (D 2.16/1:52), SD 8.10.
53
Brahmin housemasters, brhmaa,gaha.patik
54
Paito vyatto medhv bahussuto citta,kath kalya,paibhno vuddho ceva arah ca. This whole phrase
occurs here twice [2.3+3.3] & Narada S (A 5.50/3:58). Occurrences of similar shorter phrases are as follows:
paita vyatta medhv bahussuta dhamma,kathika (of a Dharma speaker) (V 4:7, 93, 102, 113, 132,
141, 1422; pl V 4:106, 116, 133); paito vyatto medhv (M 4:1762, 194; A 4:107, 110; with dakkho analaso, skilled, not lazy, A 3:135; with dgha,ratta appa,rajakkha,jtiko, elderly, with little dust inhis eyes, V
1:72 of ra Klma & Uddaka Rma,putta; with paibalo, capable, M 3:176); pait vyatt medhvino (pl)
(V 3:135, 4:211; M 2:114); (of a teacher) long cpd, V 1:119, 127, 128, 337, 3382, 339; paito vyatto (V 1:171; D
1:101; with khetta-, kusalo, pasture-wise, skillful, A 4:419, 5:194; with kusalo, skillful, S 5:1513, 1524,
160; with sappuriso, true individual, A 2:3); pait vyatt (pl: V 2:190 = 195 = 198 = 3:172 with buddhimanto,
insightful; M 4:4192 of a mountain cow); pait...vyatt (split cpd) (V 1:592, 602, 61, 62, 339, 340). Cf paita,tar ca vyatta,tar ca bahu-s,suta,tar ca alam,attha,tar [Be alamatta,tar] ca, wiser than, more experienced than, more learned than, more capable than (V 2:12, 2, 36).
55
Sdhu kho pana tath,rpna arahata dassana hot ti. Arahata is 3 gen pl. For details on this statement,
see Kesa,puttiya S (A 3.65/1:188-193), SD 35.4a (comy n 1d).
56
Sagha,sagh ga,bht; as at D 23,3/2:317; M 95,4/2:164; UA 380. Tr here follows Comy, where sagha is
def as the separate communities from the districts (ekekissya disya sagho etesa atthti) (DA 1:280). It is
possible that these were tribes or clans. Cf saghna gana (M 25,12/1:231); nara,gaa,sagha (A 4.51,4/2:55*).
57
Atha kho setavyak brhmaa,gaha,patik setavyya nikkhamitv sagha,sagh ga,bht uttarena,mukh
gacchanti yena sisap,vana. On the simsapa forest, sv 1.1 n.
58
Upari,psde. The more usual expression is upari,psde,vara,gato, where vara (best) is tr as royal, a
common phrase: see Smaa,phala S (D 2,1.2/1:47,8), SD 8.10 n. Here, evidently, Pysi is only a minor prince,
ie, an unconsecrated rajah (anabhisittaka,rj, DA 3:808) [1.2n].
59
Tena kho pana samayena pysi rjao uparipsde div,seyya upagato hoti. Note the word div,seyya,
sleeping for the day, siesta: D 4.3/1:112 (the brahmin Soa,daa), D 5,3/1:128, 2:317 (the brahmin Ka,danta),
D 23,15/1:333 (prince Pysi); M 95,5/2:164 (the brahmin Cak): here, there is sleeping in the day. The more usual
expression here for monastics is div,vihra (lit, day residence), day-rest, a time of seclusion for monastics to
rest and meditate, esp after the noon meal, eg: V 1:28, 3:208; D 2:130, 182, 356, 3:17-22 passim; M 1:108 f, 147,
229, 359, 447, 502, 2:65 passim; S 1:129, 130, 132-135, 3:91, 235; A 3:75, 4:262, 264, 356, 438; U 5, 35; Pv 2.10.1/28*; Ap 2:404, 473*; (pl) div,vihr: S 1:193; Th 48a/128; Ap 1:284*, 2:417*; div.vihra,gato: vihra, S 1:198; Ap 3:37 f passim; S 1:146, 148, 197 f, 203, 225, 233: for other refs search CPD: divvihr* & div vihr*.
65
SD 39.4
Seeing them, he addressed his attendant:60

Attendant, why are these brahmin housemasters of Setavy leaving Setavy in bands, group after
group, heading northward for the simsapa forest?
3.2 It is said that master Kumra Kassapa, a disciple of the recluse Gotama, is walking by stages
on a Dharma-tour [peregrinating] in Kosala country with a large community of monks, numbering some
five hundred. They have arrived at the Kosala town of Setavy and are staying in the simsapa forest north
of Setvy.
3.3 Now a good report about master Kumra Kassapa has been going around thus:
He is intelligent, experienced, wise, deeply learned, versatile speaker, of excellent wit [witty in the
good], mature and truly worthy!
They are going to see this master Kumra Kassapa.
Pysi wishes to meet Kumra Kassapa

3.4 In that case, master attendant, approach those brahmin housemasters of Setavy and say this to
them:
Sirs, prince Pysi says thus:
Sirs, could you please wait?61 Prince Pysi, too, will go and see the recluse Kumra Kassapa.
3.5 The recluse Kumra Kassapa has before convinced the foolish and unlearned brahmin housemasters of Setavy, thus:62
that there is the other world;
atthi paro loko
that there are spontaneously born beings;63
atthi satt opaptik
that there is the fruit or result of good and bad actions.
atthi sukatadukkana kammna
phala vipko
3.6 Yes, sir, the attendant replied to prince Pysi, and approached the brahmin housemasters of
Setavy.
Having approached the brahmin housemasters of Setavy, he said this,
Sirs, prince Pysi says thus:
Sirs, could you please wait? Prince Pysi, too, will go and see the master Kumra Kassapa.
Pysi meets Kumra Kassapa

4 Then prince Pysi, surrounded by the brahmin housemasters from Setavy, went to the simsapa
forest and approached the venerable Kumra Kassapa.
Having approached, he greeted the venerable Kumra Kassapa, exchanged greetings with him, [319]
and then sat down at one side.
The brahmin housemasters of Setavy, too,
some, having saluted (by genuflecting before) the venerable Kumra Kassapa, sat down at one side;
some exchanged greetings with the venerable Kumra Kassapa, and having exchanged greetings, sat
down at one side;
60
Khatt (Skt ktt, from katra) an attendant, companion, charioteer, a porter, an equerry, a steward, the kings
minister and adviser (D 1:112, 128; M 2:164). Here, Comy says: A minister who is able to answer any questions
asked is called a khatt (~ vuccati pucchita,pucchita,paha vykaraa,samattho mahmatto: (DA 1:280). PED:
Buddhaghosa evidently connects it with katheti, to speak, respond = katth: gdha ~, A 2:107 = Pug 43 vl for
katt (cf PugA 225).
61
gamentu kira bhavanto.
62
This section: Pur samao kumra,kassapo setavyake brhmaa,gaha.patike ble avyatte sapeti; and the
foll section: itipi atthi paro loko, atthi satt opaptik, atthi sukata,dukkana kammna phala vipkoti. Sapeti (caus of sajnti, he thinks, supposes; recognizes, perceives, comprehends), he convinces, wins over (D
2:318,17); pl sapenti (A 1:75,30); other forms: sapetu, to convince (V 1:10,7 2:197,31; D 1:236,5+6; M
1:397,25; S 4:224,16+17); absol sapetv, having made known (U 17,17).
63
Opaptik, see n 2.1.
66
D 2.10
some approached the venerable Kumra Kassapa, saluted him with lotus palms and then sat down at
one side;
some announced their name and clan before the venerable Kumra Kassapa, and then sat down at one
side.
Some kept silent64 and sat down at one side.
Pysis nihilism
5 Sitting thus at one side, prince Pysi said this to the venerable Kumra Kassapa:
I, master Kassapa, hold this doctrine, this view, that is to say:65
There is no other world.
There are no spontaneously born beings.
There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions.
5.2 I, O prince, have neither seen nor heard of anyone holding such a doctrine, such a view.
How then, O prince, would you speak this, that is to say:
There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions.?
(1) Parable of the sun and the moon

5.3 In that case, O prince, I will question you on just this point. Answer as you see fit.
What do you think, O prince:
the sun and the moon, are they in this world or in another world? Are they celestial or human?66
5.4 This sun and moon, master Kassapa, are in another world, not in this world; they are celestial,
not human.
5.5 In this way, too, O prince, this is their case, in a manner of speaking,67 that is to say:
there is the other world;
there are spontaneously born beings;
there is the fruit or result of good or bad actions.
Pysis proof (1): Hell-beings do not return

6
Even though master Kassapa says thus, it is still the case for me here, that is to say:68
64
This is likely to be a case of social or emotional distance: see Silence and the Buddha, SD 44.1 (2.2).
Aha hi, bho kassapa, eva,vd eva,dih. The phrase eva,vd eva,dih, this [such a] doctrine, this
[such a] view is very common as a stock phrase, eg D 23.5.1/2:319,12; M 12.57-62/1:81 f passim; S 36.21.3/4:230,11+20; A 6.38/3:338,14; U 6.4/67 passim; Vbh 367 passim.
66
Dev v te manuss v, lit are the devas or humans? The ancient Indians believed that these heavenly bodies
were divine beings, just as many of us today take the earth as Gaia, or Mother Earth.
67
Iminpi kho te, rjaa, pariyyena eva hotu. In a manner of speaking, pariyyena [5,5, 11.2] as Kumra Kassapa is speaking on a worldly level (yet it can, in an extended way, also mean reason): see Neyyattha Ntattha S (A 2.3.5+6/1:60), SD 2.6b. Comy, however, globally glosses pariyya as meaning reason(ing), krana
(DA 3:809), but the first sense (a) is pref here, while below [5.5, 6.2*+3*+10*, 7.8, 8.1*+3*+10*, 9.11, 10.2*+3*
+10*, 11.13, 12.2*+3*+8*, 13.6, 14.2*+3*+10*, 15.6, 16.2*+3*+9*, 17.6, 18.2*+3*+25*, 19.13, 20.2*+3*+8*]
both senses apply (separately) in the two occurrences of pariyya. [The asterisk * here means that pariyya appears
twice.] Def: (a) mode, manner, way: D 1:185 (imin ~ena), 186 (id), esp in phrase aneka,pariyyena, in many
(or various) ways, V 1:16, 45; D 1:1 (cf DA 1:36), 174, 2:319,25; M 1:24; A 1:56; Sn p15; DA 1:106 (tena tena
~ena, in some way or other); (b) reason(ing) (= kraa), cause, D 2:319,25 (imin ... ~ena = kraa, reason(ing), DA 3:809), D 2:339,18 (aya... ~o yena te ~ena); DhsA 366,35 (imin ~ena, for this reason), because
(DhsA:PR 472) . See Intro (3.3.1). See also PED: pariyya & also Pariyya & nippariyya, SD 68.2. I thank Bh
Anandajoti for his assistance here (incl supplying a journal article) (Mar 2012).
68
Kicpi bhava kassapo evam ha, atha kho eva me ettha hoti.
65
67
SD 39.4
There are no spontaneously born beings. [320]

6.2 But, O prince, is there a reason by which they can, in a manner of speaking, be so,69 that is to
say:
There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions?
6.3 There is a reason, master Kassapa, by which they can, in a manner of speaking, be so, that is to
say:
6.4 Like how [Like what],70 O prince?
6.5 Here, master Kassapa, I have friends and colleagues, relations and blood relatives, who
destroy living beings,
take the not-given
commit sexual misconduct,
speak falsehood,
speak harsh speech,
indulge in frivolous chatter,
slander,
are covetous,
have a mind of ill will,
hold wrong views.
6.6 There were times when they fell sick, suffering and severely ill.
When I know that they would not recover from their illness, I approached them and said:
There are, sirs, some recluses and brahmins who hold such a doctrine, such a view that those who
destroy living beings,
take the not-given,
commit sexual misconduct,
speak falsehood,
speak harsh speech,
indulge in frivolous chatter,
slander,
are covetous,
have a mind of ill will,
hold wrong views,
with the bodys breaking up, after death, are reborn71 [arise] in a state of deprivation, a suffering state, the
downfall, hell.
6.7 Now, sirs, you are those who
have destroyed living beings,
have taken the not-given,
have commited sexual misconduct,
have spoken falsehood,
have spoken harsh speech,
69
Atthi pana, rjaa, pariyyo, yena te pariyyena eva hoti. Here, the 1st pariyya means reason or reasoning, while the 2nd sense, in a manner of speaking: see prec n.
70
Yath katha viya: this is stock [6.4, 8.4, 10.4, 12.4, 14.4, 16.4, 20.4], V 2:93, 99-103 passim; Pm 1:185,
2:218.
71
Are reborn,upapajjanti, the tr here reflects the teaching of the good recluses and brahmins.
68
D 2.10
have indulged in frivolous chatter,

have slandered,
have been covetous,
have had a mind of ill will,
have held wrong views.
If what the good recluses and brahmins say is true, sirs, you, sirs, with the bodys breaking up, after
death, will be reborn in (a state of) deprivation, a suffering state, the downfall, hell,
6.8 If, sirs, with the bodys breaking up, after death, you were indeed reborn72 in (a state of) deprivation, a suffering state, the downfall, hell,
then, come back and tell me so, that is to say,
that there is the other [the next] world;
that there are spontaneously born beings;
6.9 For you, sirs, are faithful to me, reliable, so that what you have seen will be just as if I have seen
it myself.73
They replied, Very good! [321] to me, but they have neither come and told me anything, not have
they me sent any messenger.74
6.10 This, master Kassapa, is the reasoning, whereby such is the case, in a manner of speaking,75 that
is to say:
(2) The parable of the thief to be executed

7 In that case, O prince, I will question you on just this point. Answer as you see fit.
What do you think, O prince:
Here, people, having caught a thief in the act, were to bring him in, saying:
This thief, sir, was caught in the act. Inflict upon him whatever punishment you wish!76
7.2 Then, they would say this to you:
In that case, sir, bind this mans arms firmly behind his back, shave his head clean, and lead him
around to the sound of a harsh drum-beat, from street to street, from cross-road to cross-road, taking him
out through the south gate, into the south of the city, to the execution groundchop off his head!77
7.3 They replied, Very good! to him, and having bound that mans arms firmly behind his back,
shaven his head clean, and led him around to the sound of a harsh drum-beat, from street to street, from
cross-roads to cross-roads, took him out through the south gate, into the south of the city, and made him
sit in the execution ground.
7.4 Now, what if the thief were to obtain leave from the executioners, thus:78
72
If...were indeed reborn, sace...upapajjissanti, the tr here, following the conditional syntax, reflects Pysis
unbelief or doubt in the afterlife.
73
Bhavanto kho pana me saddhyik paccayik, ya bhavantehi diha, yath sma diha evam eta bhavissatti.
74
This is one of Pysis arguments that there is no afterlife. Cf his argument at 8.9.
75
Ayam pi kho, bho kassapa, pariyyo, yena me pariyyena eva hoti. In a manner of speaking, pariyyena
[5.5, 11.2], as Kumra Kassapa is speaking on a worldly level (yet it can, in an extended way, also mean reason): see above [5.5] n.
76
Aya te, bhante, coro gucr; imassa ya icchasi, ta daa paehti.
77
Tena hi, bho, ima purisa dahya rajjuy pacch,bha gha,bandhana bandhitv khura,mua karitv khara-s,sarena paavena rathikya rathika sighakena sighaka parinetv dakkhiena dvrena nikkhamitv dakkhiato nagarassa ghtane ssa chindathti. This stock description of an execution occurs in: Pysi S
(D 23.7.2/2:321,11-21); Susma S (S 12.70/2:128,4-13); Paliya S (S 42.13/4:344-347); patti,bhaya S (A 4.242/2:241,1-10).
69
SD 39.4
Sirs, may my masters, the executioners, wait, until I have visited my friends and colleagues, or relations and blood relatives, in such and such a village or market-town, and returned, [322]
or, would the executioner simply chop off this frivolous talkers head?
7.5 The thief, master Kassapa, would obtain no such leave from the executioners, thus:
Sirs, may my masters, the executioners, wait, until I have visited my friends and colleagues, or relations and blood relatives, in such and such a village or market-town, and, having visited them, returned.
For, the executioner would simply chop off the frivolous talkers head!
7.6 So then, O prince, a thief who is a human would get no leave from human executioners, thus:
Sirs, may my masters, the executioners, wait, until I have visited my friends and colleagues, or relations and blood relatives, in such and such a village or market-town, and, having visited them, returned.
7.7 How then, O prince, would your friends and colleagues, relations and blood relatives, who have
destroyed living beings,
taken the not-given
committed sexual misconduct,
spoken falsehood,
speak harsh speech,
indulged in frivolous chatter,
slandered,
were covetous,
had a mind of ill will,
held wrong views,
with the bodys breaking up, after death, have been reborn in (a state of) deprivation, a suffering state, the
downfall, hell,
were to obtain leave from the hell wardens, thus:
Sirs, may my masters, the hell wardens, wait, until I have gone to my prince Pysi, and told him
thus, that is to say:
there is the other [the next] world;
there is the fruit or result of good and bad actions.79
Pysi proof (2): Heavenly beings do not return

8
Even though master Kassapa says thus, it is still the case for me here, that is to say:
say:
78
Labheyya nu kho so coro coraghtesu.

Cf Aatara Purisa Vatthu (DhA 5.1) where hell-beings try to communicate their sufferings to Pasenadi, but
succeed in only making the sounds du sa na so. (DhA 5.1/2:1-19)
80
In a manner of speaking, pariyyena [5,5, 11.2] as Kumra Kassapa is speaking on a worldly level (yet it
can, in an extended way, also mean reason): see above [5.5] n.
81
Atthi pana, rjaa, pariyyo, yena te pariyyena eva hoti. On the different sense of each of the 2 occurrences of pariyya, see [6.2] n.
79
70
D 2.10

say:
8.4 Like how, O prince?
8.5 Here, master Kassapa, I have friends and colleagues, relations and blood relatives, who
refrain from destroying living beings,
refrain from taking the not-given
refrain from sexual misconduct, [323]
refrain from speaking falsehood,
refrain from speak harsh speech,
refrain from frivolous chatter,
refrain from slandering,
refrain from being covetous,
refrain from having a mind of ill will,
refrain from holding wrong views.
refrain from sexual misconduct,
refrain from speak harsh speech,
refrain from frivolous chatter,
refrain from slandering,
refrain from being covetous,
refrain from having a mind of ill will,
refrain from holding wrong views,
with the bodys breaking up, after death, are reborn82 in a happy state, a heaven world.
have refrained from destroying living beings,
have refrained from taking the not-given
have refrained from sexual misconduct,
have refrained from speaking falsehood,
have refrained from speak harsh speech,
have refrained from frivolous chatter,
have refrained from slandering,
have refrained from being covetous,
have refrained from having a mind of ill will,
have refrained from holding wrong views.
8.8 If, sirs, with the bodys breaking up, after death, you were indeed reborn83 in a happy state, a
heaven world,
82
83
Are reborn: see n ad loc 6.6.

Were indeed reborn: see n ad loc 6.8.
71
SD 39.4

8.9 For you, sirs, are faithful to me, reliable, so that what you have seen will be just as if I have seen
it myself.
They replied, Very good! to me, but they have neither come and told me anything, nor have they
sent any messenger.84
8.10 This, master Kassapa, is the reasoning, whereby such is the case, in a manner of speaking,85
[324] that is to say:
(3) Parable of the man in a cesspool

9 In that case, O prince, I will give you a parable. For, some of the wise here understand the
meaning of what is said by way of a parable.86
9.2 Suppose, O prince, a person were to sink, head and all,87 in a cesspool.88
Then you were to order your men:
Now, sirs, pull this man out of that cesspool!
Having replied, Very good, to you, they were to pull the man out of the cesspool.
9.3 Then you were to say this to them:
In that case, sirs, thoroughly wipe off the dung off this persons body with a piece of bamboo.89
Having replied, Very good, to you, they were to wipe off the dung off this persons body with a
piece of bamboo.
In that case, sirs, thoroughly shampoo this mans body thrice with yellow clay.90
They then were to thoroughly shampoo this mans body thrice with yellow clay.
Now then, sirs, grease this man up with oil, and wash him well three times with chunam [fragrant
soap powder].91
Then the men were to grease this man up with oil, and wash him well three times with chunam.
Now then, sirs, groom his hair and beard.
Then the men were to groom his hair and beard.
Now then, sirs, present this man with very costly garlands, and very costly cosmetics, and very
costly clothes.92
84
Cf Pysis argument at 6.9.

[5,5, 11.2], as Kumra Kassapa is speaking on a worldly level (yet it can, in an extended way, also mean reason): see above [5.5] n.
86
Tena hi rjaa upama te karissmi. Upamya midhekacce vi puris bhsitassa attha jnanti: D 23.9/2:324; A 10.95,3.2 @ SD 44.16. Cf ... Upamyapidhekacce...: S 41.1.8/4:282. Tenvuso [Tena hvuso] upaman te karissmi...: M 24.14/1:148, 43.22/1:295, 76.52/1:523 (Tena hi sandaka upaman te...), 127.16/3:151 (Tena
vuso kaccna upaman te ...); S 12.67.25/2:114.
87
Head and all, in a cesspool, gtha,kpe sa,ssaka, as at V 3:106,36, 107,1; sa,ssaka, over his head, head
and all (V 3:106,36, 107,1; D 2:324,5; Sn 80,2). Sa,ssa, together with the head; sa,ssa, up to the head (D 1:76, 246; S 2:259,5; A 3:403,22; J 1:298, 5:274). The more common English idiom would be up to his neck, but
here the unfortunate person fell completely into the cesspool.
88
Seyyathpi rjaa puriso gtha,kpe sa,ssaka nimuggo assa. Ie, he were to fall headlong into the cesspool.
89
Tena hi, bho, tassa purisassa ky veu,pesikhi gtha sunimmajjita nimmajjathti.
90
Tena hi, bho, tassa purisassa kya pau,mattikya tikkhattu subbaita ubbaethti.
91
Tena hi, bho, ta purisa telena abbhajitv sukhumena cuena tikkhattu suppadhota karothti.
85
72
D 2.10
Then the men were to present this man with very costly garlands, and very costly [325] cosmetics,
and very costly clothes.
Now then, sirs, bring this man up into a mansion [a palace], provide him with the 5 cords of sensual
pleasures.
Then the men were to bring this man up into a palace [a tower], provide him with the 5 cords of
sensual pleasures.
9.9 What do you think, O prince, of that person, well washed, well perfumed, hair and beard well
groomed, dressed in clothes of white cloth, adorned with garlands and gems, gone to the roof terrace of
the royal palace, being consummately entertained and endowed with the 5 cords of sensual pleasures
would he ever have the desire to be sunk in that cesspool ever again?93
Not at all, master Kassapa.
9.10 What is the reason for this?
Impure, master Kassapa, is the cesspool, impure and regarded as impure, and foul smelling as such,
and disgusting and regarded with disgust, and repulsive and regarded with repulsion.94
Even so, O prince, humans are to the devas impure and regarded as impure, and foul smelling as
such, and disgusting and regarded with disgust, and repulsive and regarded with repulsion.
The smell of a human, O prince, will revulse95 a deva from a hundred leagues away!96
9.11 What more to say of your friends and colleagues, relations and blood relatives, who
have refrained from speak harsh speech,
have refrained from frivolous chatter,
have refrained from slandering,
have refrained from being covetous,
have refrained from having a mind of ill will,
have refrained from holding wrong views,
who, with the bodys breaking up, after death, have been reborn in a happy state, a heaven world
would they, then, come back and tell you so, that is to say,
that there is the fruit or result of good and [326] bad actions.
92
Tena hi, bho, tassa purisassa mahaggha ca mla mahaggha ca vilepana mahagghni ca vatthni
upaharathti.
93
Ta ki maasi, rjaa, api nu tassa purisassa su,nhtassa suvilittassa sukappita,kesa,massussa mutta,*mlbharaassa odta,vattha,vasanassa upari,psda,vara,gatassa pacahi kma,guehi samappitassa samag,bhtassa paricrayamnassa puna-d-eva tasmi gtha,kpe nimujjitu,kmat assti. mutta (Skt mukta), put on,
adorned, armed: Be mukka.
94
Asuci, bho kassapa, gtha,kpo asuci ceva asuci,sakhto ca duggandho ca duggandha,sakhto ca jeguccho
ca jeguccha,sakhto ca paiklo ca paikla,sakhto cti.
95
Oddly, we have the noun revulsion, but no standard dictionary gives its verb, revulse. Websters Third New
International Dictionary, however, has revulsed. It makes good sense to use this intransitive verb here. Also see
Nibbid, SD 20.1 (2.2.1).
96
Yojana,sata kho rjaa manussa,gandho deve ubbdhati.
97
73
SD 39.4
Pysis proof (3): Those reborn in Tvatisa did not return

10 Even though master Kassapa says thus, it is still the case for me here, that is to say:
say:
say:
10.5 Here, master Kassapa, I have friends and colleagues, relations and blood relatives, who99
refrain from strong drinks, fermented drinks, intoxicants, the bases of heedlessness.
refrain from strong drinks, fermented drinks, intoxicants, the bases of heedlessness,
with the bodys breaking up, after death, are reborn100 in a happy state, a heaven world, in
companionship with the devas of the Thirty-three [Tva,tisa].
have refrained from strong drinks, fermented drinks, intoxicants, the bases of heedlessness.
10.8 If, sirs, with the bodys breaking up, after death, you were indeed reborn101 in a happy state, a
heaven world, in companionship with the devas of the Thirty-three [Tva,tisa],
98
99
From hereon, instead of the 10 courses of action (kamma,patha), we have the 5 precepts.
100
Are reborn: see n ad loc 6.6.
101
If...you were indeed reborn... cf 6.8.
74
D 2.10

10.9 For you, sirs, are faithful to me, reliable, so that what you have seen will be just [327] as if I
have seen it myself.
They replied, Very good! to me, but they have neither come and told me anything, not have they
sent any messenger.
that is to say:
(4) The Tvatisa parable

Now, O prince, that which is a hundred human years is but a single night and day amongst the devas
of Tvatisa.
Of these nights, 30 form a month; of these months, 12 form a year.
Of such years, a thousand is the life-span of the devas of Tvatisa.
11.2 Those friends and colleagues, relations and blood relatives of yours, who
refrain from strong drinks, fermented drinks, intoxicants, the bases of heedlessness,
have, with the bodys breaking up, after death, been reborn in a happy state, a heaven world, in
companionship with the devas of Tva,tisa [the Thirty-three].
11.3 Now, if this were to occur to them:
Let us first enjoy ourselves for two or three celestial nights and days, consummate and endowed with
the 5 cords of sensual pleasures,
then we would go and tell prince Pysi that
11.4 Would they then have come to you and told you so, that is to say:
that there is the fruit or result of good and bad action?
11.5 Not at all, master Kassapa.
For, master Kassapa, we would have been long dead!
11.6 But who told master Kassapa this,
that there are the devas of Tvatisa or that the devas of Tvatisa are so long-lived?
We do not [328] believe it when master Kassapa says
that there are the devas of Tvatisa or that the devas of Tvatisa are so long-lived.
(5) The parable of the one born blind
11.7 Suppose, O prince, there is a man born blind,103 who
102
[5,5, 11.2], as Kumra Kassapa is speaking on a worldly level (yet it can, in an extended way, also mean reason): see above [5.5] n.
103
Seyyathpi, mgaiya, jaccandho puriso; so na passeyya kaha,sukkni rpni, na passeyya nlakni rpni, na passeyya ptakni rpni, na passeyya lohitakni rpni, na passeyya majihakni rpni, na passeyya
75
SD 39.4
could see
neither dark nor bright shapes,
could not see
blue shapes,
could not see
yellow shapes,
could not see
red shapes,
could not see
orange shapes,
could see neither the even nor the uneven,
could not see
the stars,
could see neither the sun nor the moon.
He would then say:
There is neither
dark nor bright shapes,
nor anyone else who sees dark or bright shapes.
There is no
blue shapes,
nor anyone else who sees blue shapes.
There is no
yellow shapes,
nor anyone else who sees yellow shapes.
There is no
red shapes,
nor anyone else who sees red shapes.
There is no
orange shapes,
nor anyone else who sees orange shapes.
There is neither
the even nor the uneven,
nor anyone else who sees the even or the uneven.
There is no
stars,
nor anyone else who see the stars.
There is neither
sun nor moon.
nor anyone else who sees the sun or the moon.
I know not this, nor do I see this; therefore they do not exist.104
11.8 Would one, O prince, who speaks so be speaking rightly?
Not at all, master Kassapa.
There are
dark or bright shapes,
and those who see dark or bright shapes.
There are
blue shapes,
and those who see blue shapes.
There are
yellow shapes,
and those who see yellow shapes.
There are
red shapes,
and there are those who see red shapes.
There are
orange shapes,
and those who see orange shapes. [329]
There are
the even and the uneven, and those who see the even and the uneven.
There are
the stars,
and those who see the stars.
There are
the sun or the moon.
and those who see the sun or the moon.
Indeed, one speaking thus, I know not this, nor do I see this; therefore they do not exist, is not
speaking rightly.
11.9 Even so, O prince, I think you speak like the blind man in the parable of the man born blind,
when you speak thus:
But who told master Kassapa this,
that there are the devas of Tvatisa or that the devas of Tvatisa are so long-lived?
We do not believe it when master Kassapa says
that there are the devas of Tvatisa or that the devas of Tvatisa are so long-lived.
11.10 For, O prince, the other world is not as you see it, imagined in this way through the physical
eye.
O prince, those recluses and brahmins who resort to remote lodgings, therein, dwelling diligent, exertive, and resolute, purify the divine eye.105
sama,visama, na passeyya traka,rpni, na passeyya candima,sriye. The underscored words are colours: nlaka
= blue, sky grey, indigo; ptaka = yellow, golden yellow; lohitaka = red, blood red; and majihaka = orange or
crimson. The usu primary-colour pericope is: nla, pta, majehaka, lohitaka, and odta (white) (M 1:509; J 6:185;
Dhs 617). This whole parable as at Pysi S (D 23.11/2:328 f), SD 39.4, (Paribbjaka) Mgandiya S (M 75.20.1/1:509 22.2/1:510 23.2/1:511), SD 31.5; (Brahma,vihra) Subha S (M 99.12/2:2013), SD 38.6. Cf Atthi,rga S
(S 12.64.8/2:102); Gaddula,baddha S 2 (S 22.100.11/3:152); (Nvaraa) Sagrava S (S 46.55.4b/5:121; (Manta) Sagrava S (A 5.193.3/3:230).
104
This hints of a positivist form of materialism: see (2.1.2).
105
Ye kho te, rjaa, samaa,brhma araa,vana,patthni pantni sensanni paisevanti, te tattha
appamatt tpino pahitatt viharant dibba,cakkhu visodhenti. For arhathood pericope, see SID: eko vpakaho
appamatt tp pahitatto viharanto.
76
D 2.10
11.11 With the divine eye, purified, superhuman [surpassing the human eye],106
and, indeed, they see the other world, and those spontaneously born.107
11.12 And this, O prince, is the way to see the other world, not in the manner that you have done in
this way by means of the physical eye.
Pysis proof (4): Why dont good people kill themselves?

12 Even though master Kassapa says thus, it is [330] still the case for me here, that is to say:
say:
say:
12.5 Here, master Kassapa, I see recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature,
desiring to live, not desiring to die, desiring happiness, averse to suffering.110
12.6 This, master Kassapa, is what I thought of them:
Now, if these good recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature, were to know thus:
Those of us who die from here will be better off111
then, these good recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature, would take poison, or draw
a knife, or strangle [hang] themselves until dead, or jump off [fall off] a cliff.112
12.7 But surely these good recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature, do not know
that
Those of us who die from here will be better off
therefore, these good recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature, desiring to live, not
desiring to die, desiring happiness, averse to suffering, do not kill themselves.113
106
This and the next line: Te dibbena cakkhun visuddhena atikkanta,mnusakena | ima ceva loka passanti
para ca satte ca opaptike.
107
From this context, it is clear that spontaneously born beings (opaptik) here is a generic term for devas and
subhumans such as hellbeings. Opaptik, see n 2.1.
108
109
110
Idhha, bho kassapa, passmi samaa,brhmae slavante kalya,dhamme jvitu,kme amaritu,kme
sukha,kme dukkha,paikle.
111
Ito no matna seyyo bhavissatti. Pysi is sayings that we cannot really be certain that a good afterlife exists
at all.
112
Idnime bhonto samaa,brhma slavanto kalya,dhamm visa v khdeyyu, sattha v hareyyu,
ubbandhitv v kla kareyyu, papte v papateyyu.
77
SD 39.4
that is to say:
(6) The womb parable

13 In that case, O prince, I will give you a parable. For, some of the wise here understand the meaning of what is said by way of a parable.
13.2 Once upon a time, O prince, there was a certain brahmin who had two wives.
One of them had a son, ten or twelve years old; the other was pregnant, near her time. 115
13.3 Then the brahmin died, and the boy said this to his other mother, the co-wife:116
Whatever treasure, madam, or grain, or silver, or goldall that is [331] mine.117 There is nothing
here whatsoever for you. Hand over my fathers heritage to me, madam!118
13.4 When this was said, the brahminee said this to the boy:
Wait, dear, wait until my child is born, dear!119
If it is a boy, then one portion will be his, but if it is a girl, she will be your maid-servant.120
13.5 For a second time, the boy said this to his other mother, the co-wife:
Whatever treasure, madam, or grain, or silver, or goldall that is mine. There is nothing here whatsoever for you. Hand over my fathers heritage to me, madam!
13.6 For a second time, when this was said, the brahminee said this to the boy:
Wait, dear, wait until my child is born, dear!
If it is a boy, then one portion will be his, but if it is a girl, she will be your maid-servant.
13.7 For a third time, when this was said, the brahminee said this to the boy:
13.8 For a third time, the boy said this to his other mother, the co-wife:
Whatever treasure, madam, or grain, or silver, or goldall that is mine. There is nothing here whatsoever for you. Hand over my fathers heritage to me, madam!
13.9 For a third time, when this was said, the brahminee said this to the boy:
13.10 Then the brahminee, taking a knife, went into the chamber and cut open her own womb, thinking121:
Let me see if I will give birth to a boy or a girl.122
13.11 Thus she destroyed both her own life and that of her unborn child, along with her wealth.
13.12 Like her, foolish and dense, fallen into misfortune and disaster, seeking a heritage without wise
consideration.123
113
Tasm ime bhonto samaa,brhma slavanto kalya,dhamm jvitu,km amaritu,km sukha,km dukkha,paikl attna na mrenti.
114
In a manner of speaking, pariyyena [5,5, 11.2], as Kumra Kassapa is speaking on a worldly level (yet it
115
Ekiss putto ahosi dasa,vassuddesiko v dvdasavassuddesiko v, ek gabbhin upavija.
116
Atha kho so mavako mtu,sa.patti etad avoca.
117
Yam ida bhoti dhana v dhaa v rajata v jta,rpa v, sabba ta mayha.
118
Pitu me, bhoti, dyajja niyydehti.
119
gamehi tva, tta, yva vijymi.
120
Sace kumrako bhavissati, tassapi eka,deso bhavissati; sace kumrik bhavissati, spi te opabhogg
bhavissatti.
121
Atha kho s brhma sattha gahetv ovaraka pavisitv udara opdesi.
122
Yva vijymi yadi v kumrako yadi v kumrikti.
78
D 2.10
even so, you, too, O prince, foolish and dense, will fall into misfortune and disaster, seeking [332] the
other world without wise consideration,
just like that brahminee, foolish and dense, fallen into misfortune and disaster, seeking a heritage,
without wise consideration!
13.13 Indeed, O prince, the recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature, rush not to ripen what is unripe, but wait for the ripening.124
13.14 For there is benefit for the learned recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature, by
living.125
13.15 For, O prince, the longer the recluses and brahmins, morally virtuous, good by nature, remain
in this long journey, the more merit they generate;126
and they keep to the path for the benefit of the multitude, for the happiness of the multitude, human
and divine.127
Pysis proof (5): No life-force emerged from the pot

14.2 But, O prince, is there a reason by which they can, in a manner of speaking, be so,129 that is
to say:
say:
14.5 Here, master Kassapa, people, having caught a thief in the act, brought him in, saying:
This thief, sir, was caught in the act. Inflict upon him whatever punishment you wish!
14.6 Then, I said this to them:
In that case, sirs, cast this man alive into a jar. Close its mouth, cover it up with wet leather, then
smear and spread wet clay over it, mount it onto an oven and start a fire.130
123
Yath ta bl avyatt anaya,vyasana pann ayoniso dyajja gavesant. The dvandva anaya,vyasana,
misfortune and disaster: V 3:199; S 4:159; A 5:156; Miln 292; VvA 327; BHS: Jtkm 215.
124
Na kho rjaa samaa,brhma slavanto kalya,dhamm apakka paripcenti; api ca paripka
gamenti.
125
Paitna attho hi rjaa samaa,brhmana slavantna kalya,dhammna jvitena.
126
Yath yath kho, rjaa, samaa,brhma slavanto kalya,dhamm cira dgham addhna tihanti
tath tath bahu pua pasavanti.
127
Bahu.jana,hitya ca paipajjanti bahu.jana,sukhya loknukampya atthya hitya sukhya
deva,manussna.
128
129
79
SD 39.4
14.7 Replying, Very good! to me, they cast that man alive into a jar. Closed its mouth, covered it up
with wet leather, then smeared and spread wet clay over it, [333] mounted it onto an oven, and started a
fire.
14.8 When we knew that the man was dead, we brought down the jar, broke the covering, and opened the mouth. Then, we carefully looked to see if his life-force was coming out.131
14.9 But we did not see his life-force coming out.
that is to say:
(7) Parable of the dream

Do you admit it or not, O prince, that when you are taking your daily siesta, you see dreams of pleasurable parks, pleasurable forests, pleasurable grounds, pleasurable lotus-lakes?133
15.2 Yes, I admit that while Im taking my daily siesta, I see dreams of pleasurable parks, pleasurable forests, pleasurable grounds, pleasurable lotus-lakes.
15.3 Are you at that time looked after by hunchbacks, dwarfs, jesters and young maidens?134
Yes, master Kassapa, at that time I was looked after by hunchbacks, dwarfs, jesters and young maidens.
15.4 Do they see your life-force entering you or leaving you? [334]
No, master Kassapa.
15.5 So, O prince, the living do not see your life-force entering or leaving you, also one living.135
How then, will you see a dead persons life-force entering or leaving him?
Pysis proof (6): The life-force cannot be weighed

130
Tena hi bho ima purisa jvanta yeva kumbhiy pakkhipitv mukha pidahitv allena cammena onandhitv allya mattikya bahalvalepana karitv uddhana ropetv aggi dethti.
131
Yad maya jnma kla,kato so purisoti, atha na kumbhi oropetv ubbhinditv mukha vivaritv saika nillokema appeva nmassa jva nikkhamanta passeyymti.
132
133
Abhijnsi no tva, rjaa, div seyya upagato supinaka passit rma,rmaeyyaka vana,rmaeyyaka bhmi,rmaeyyaka pokkhara,rmaeyyakanti?
134
Rakkhanti ta tamhi samaye khujjpi vmanakpi velsikpi komrikpti? Be velsik; Ce keasik; Ee
velmik; Se Ke celvik. Comy glosses velsika as one fond of being playful to others; a clown (?), khipardhik (DA 3:810), where khia means playful, and apardhika (adj) [from apardha, cf Skt apardhin] guilty, offending, criminal (J 2:117 vjapardhika); Miln 149 (issarapardhika), 189 (apardhikat). PED thinks
khiparadika means very young and childish. Perhaps it is related to parada = uparata, pp of upa + RAM, to
be or make content, hence meaning, finding pleasure in, fond of (PED: parada). Cf BHS velambaka (Amg velambaga, velambaya) = viambaka. The young maidens were prob musicians. The people listed here are clearly different types of court entertainers.
135
T hi nma, rjaa, tuyha jvantassa jvantiyo jva na passissanti pavisanta v nikkhamanta v.
136
80
D 2.10

to say:
say:
In that case, take this man, while still alive, and weigh him. Having done that, then strangle him with
a bowstring, and then weigh him again.138
16.7 Replying, Very good! to me, they took this man, while still alive, and weighed him. Having
done that, then they strangled him with a bowstring, and then weighed him again.
16.8 Now, when he was alive, he was lighter, softer, and more flexible,139
but when he was dead, he was heavier, stiffer, and less flexible.140
that is to say:
(8) The parable of the glowing iron ball

17 In that case, O prince, I will give you a parable. [335] For, some of the wise here understand the
meaning of what is said by way of a parable.
17.2 Now suppose, O prince, a person were to weigh an iron ball, heated all day so that it is burning and glowing brightly.142
Then, after a time, when it is cool and quenched, it is weighed again.
17.3 Now, when would the iron ball be lighter, softer, more workable: when it is burning and glowing brightly, or when it is cool and quenched?143
137
Atthi pana, rjaa, pariyyo, yena te pariyyena eva hoti. On the differing sense of each of the 2 occurrences of pariyya, see [6.2] n.
138
Tena hi bho ima purisa jvanta-y-eva tulya tuletv jiyya anasssaka mretv puna-d-eva tulya
tulethti.
139
Yad so jvati, tad lahu,taro ca hoti mudu,taro ca kammaa,taro ca.
140
Yad pana so kla,kato hoti tad garu,taro ca hoti patthinna,taro ca akammaa,taro ca.
141
142
Seyyathpi, rjaa, puriso divasa santatta ayo,gua ditta sampajjalita sa,joti,bhta tulya tuleyya.
143
Kad nu kho so ayo,guo lahu,taro v hoti mudu,taro v kammaa,taro v, yad v ditto sampajjalito sa,joti,bhto, yad v sto nibbutoti?
81
SD 39.4
17.4 When, master Kassapa, the iron ball is burning and glowing brightly, along with its fire element and wind element, it is lighter, softer, more workable.
But when the iron ball is cool and quenched, bereft of its fire element and wind element, it is heavier,
harder, less workable.
17.5 So, too, O prince, it is with the body:
when it has vitality, body-heat and consciousness,144 it is lighter, softer, more workable.145
Pysis proof (7): Examining a carcass

to say:
say:
This thief, sir, was caught in the act. Inflict upon him [336] whatever punishment you wish!
In that case, sirs, put him to death without destroying his hide [cuticle], skin, flesh, sinews, bones
and bone-marrow.148
18.7 Replying, Very good! to me, they put him to death without destroying his hide [cuticle], skin,
flesh, sinews, bones and bone-marrow.
18.8 When he was half-dead [nearly dead],149 I said this to them:
144
Vitality (yu), body-heat (usm) and consciousness (via): yu usu means life-span, age, longevity, but
here means life, vitality, life-force. In the suttas, heat (usm,also usum; Skt man) is the life-faculty itself,
karma-born heat (of the living body) (MA 2:350): D 2:335,15; M 1:295,24 S 2:97,10 = 4:215,23 = 5:212,22; S
2:83,9, 3:143,4*, 4:294,21. Comy, however, explains yu as the form life-faculty (rpa,jvitindriya); usm,
heat, as karma-generated heat element (kammaja,tejo,dhtu), and via, consciousness, as the mind
(citta) (MA 2:351). See Mah,vedalla S (M 43.24+25/1:295 f), SD 30.2.
145
Evam eva kho, rjaa, yadya kyo yu,saha.gato ca hoti usm,saha.gato ca via,saha.gato ca, tad
lahu,taro ca hoti mudu,taro ca kammaa,taro ca..
146
147
Atthi pana, rjaa, pariyyo, yena te pariyyena eva hoti. On the different sense of each of the 2 occurrences of pariyya , see [6.2] n.
148
Tena hi bho ima purisa anupahacca chavi ca camma ca masa ca nhru ca ahi ca ahi.mija ca
jvit voropetha, appeva nmassa jva nikkhamanta passeyymti. Comy glosses anupahacca as without destroying (avinsetv, DA 3:811). Here D:RD 2:361 has kill this man by stripping off cuticle and skin... but this is
not found in the Pali, but found later in 20.6.
82
D 2.10
18.9 Now then, sirs, turn him on his back [supine],150 perhaps we would see his life-force coming
out.
They turned the man on his back, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
18.10 I said this to them:
Now then, sirs, turn him on his face [prone],151 perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They turned the man on his face, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, turn him on his side, perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They turned the man on his side, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, turn him on his other side, perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They turned the man on his other side, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, stand him upright,152 perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They stood him upright, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, stand him on his head,153 perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They stood him on his head, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, pound him with the hand,154 perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They pounded him with their hands, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, pound him with a stone, perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They pounded him with a stone, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, pound him with the stick, perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They pounded him with sticks, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, pound him with a sword, perhaps we would see his life-force coming out.
They pounded him with swords, but we did not see his life-force coming out.
Now then, sirs, shake him this way, that away, and back and forth, perhaps we would see his lifeforce coming out.
They shook him this, that way, and back and forth,155 but we did not see his life-force coming out.
18.20 Even though he has eyes and there are forms,
he does not experience the faculty.
Even though he has ears
and there are sounds,
Even though he has nose
and there are smells,
he does not experience the faculty. [337]
Even though he has tongue
and there are tastes,
Even though he has body
and there are touches,
This, master Kassapa, is the reasoning, whereby such is the case, in a manner of speaking,156 that is to
say:
149
Half-dead, Ee Se addha,mato; nearly dead, Be Ce mato.

Turn him on his back, uttna niptetha.
151
Turn him on his face, avakujja nipthetha.
152
Stand him upright, uddha nipthetha.
153
Stand him on his head, omuddha nipthetha.
154
Pound him with your hands, pin akoetha.
155
Adhuntha sandhuntha niddhuntha, Comy: Odhunthti = shake him to this side (orato karotha);
sandhunth = shake him to the other side (parato karotha); middhuntha, shake him this way and that
(aparpara karotha) (DA 3:811).
150
83
SD 39.4

(9) The parable of the conch-shell

19.2 Once upon a time, O prince, a certain conch-blower, taking his conch, went to the border country.
19.3 When he came to a certain village, he stood at its centre and blew his conch-shell thrice. Then
he laid it on the ground and sat down at one side.
19.4 Then, O prince, this occurred to the people of the border village:
Friends, whose sound is this that is so charming, so enticing, so intoxicating, so captivating, so overpowering?'157
19.5 having assembled around the conch-blower, they said this to him:
Friend, whose sound is this that is so charming, so enticing, so intoxicating, so captivating, so overpowering?
It is the sound of this conch that is so charming, so enticing, so intoxicating, so captivating, so overpowering.
19.6 They turned the horn front side up, saying:
Speak, sir conch! Speak, sir conch! But the conch did not make a sound.
19.7 Then they turned the horn downwards; they turned it to one side; they turned it to the other
side, they stood it upright; they stood it on its head. [338] they slapped it with the hand; they pounded it
with a stone; they pounded it with a stick; they pounded it with a sword; they shook this way, that away,
and back and forth, saying:
Speak, sir conch! Speak, sir conch! But the conch did not make a sound.
19.8 Then, O prince, this occurred to the conch-blower:
What fools these border villagers are, how they seek the conchs sound in the wrong way!
19.9 While they were looking on, he took his conch and blew it thrice, and then departed with the
horn.
19.10 Then, O prince, this occurred to the people of the border villages:
It seems that when this conch is accompanied by a man, by effort, and by wind, it makes a sound.
But when it it not accompanied by a man, by effort, and by wind, it does not make a sound.
19.11 Even so, O prince, when this body is accompanied by vitality, heat and consciousness, it goes
and comes, it stands and sits, it sleeps and thinks,158 and
he see forms with
his eyes,
he hears sounds with
his ears,
he smells smells with
his nose
he tastes tastes with
his tongue,
he feels touches with
his body,
he cognizes thoughts with
his mind.
19.12 But when this body is without vitality, without heat, without consciousness,
it neither goes nor comes, it neither stands nor sits, it neither sleeps nor thinks, and
he does not see forms with
his eyes,
156
157
Ambho kassa nu kho eso saddo eva,rajanyo eva,kamanyo eva,madanyo evam,bandhanyo eva,mucchanyoti.
158
Evam eva kho, rjaa, yadya kyo yu,sahagato ca hoti usm,sahagato ca via,sahagato ca, tad
abhikkamatipi paikkamatipi tihatipi nisdatipi seyyam-pi kappeti,
84
D 2.10
he does not hear sounds with

his ears,
he does not smell smells with
his nose
he does not taste tastes with
his tongue,
he does not feel touches with
his body,
he does not cognize thoughts with his mind.
Pysis proof (8): Defleshing a living person

20 Even though master Kassapa says thus, [339] it is still the case for me here, that is to say:
to say:
say:
20.4 How, O prince, is that so?
In that case, sirs, flay [skin] this mans hide;161 perhaps, we would see his life-force.
They flayed the man; but we did not see his life-force.
In that case, sirs, cut out this mans skin, cut out his flesh, cut out his sinews, cut out his bones, cut
out his bone-marrowsperhaps we might see his life-force.
We cut out the mans bone-marrows, but we did not see his life-force.
that is to say:
(10) The parable of the fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic

159
160
161
Skin his hide, chavi chindatha (lit cut open the hide). A simpler rendition would be Flay him..., but
after this, we have cut open the skin (camma chindatha).
162
85
SD 39.4
21.2 Once upon a time, O prince, a certain fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic who dwelled in a
leaf-hut in a forest haunt.163
21.3 Then, O prince, a teacher emerged from a certain country-side.
Then, that teacher, having stayed in a neighbouring hermitage of the fire-worshipping matted-hair
ascetic, departed.
21.4 Then this occurred to that fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic: [340]
What now if I were to go to the teachers abode. Perhaps there I could find something useful.164
21.5 Now when it was time for the fire-worshipping matted hair ascetic to go to the teachers abode,
he went there.
And reaching there, he saw a little young boy lying on its back, abandoned, in the teachers abode,165
21.6 Seeing it, he thought:
It is not proper that I simply look on, letting a human being die. What now if I take this boy to the
hermitage, take care of him, feed him, and raise him up?166
21.7 So the matted-hair fire-worshipping ascetic took the boy to his hernmitage, took care of him, fed
him, and raised him up.
21.8 When the boy was 10 or 12 years old, a certain business arose for the fire-worshipping mattedhair ascetic in the country-side.
21.9 Then the fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic said this to the boy:
My dear, I wish to go to the country-side. Please attend to the fire, my dear.
And do not let the fire go out. If the fire were to go out, this is an axe, here is some wood, here are the
fire-sticks. Rekindle the fire and attend to it.167
21.10 Having thus instructed the boy, the fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic left.
21.11 But he was playful, and the fire went out.
21.12 Then it occurred to the boy:
Father said this to me:
Please attend to the fire, my dear.
fire-sticks. Rekindle the fire and attend to it.
21.13 How now would I rekindle the fire and attend to it? [341]
So the boy chopped up the fire-sticks with the axes, thinking,
Perhaps, Ill get fire. But he got no fire at all.
21.14 The fire-stick were split into two, then three parts, four parts, five parts, ten parts, a hundred
parts. He repeatedly splintered them, making splinters of them, and then pounded them in a mortar, and
then he winnowed them in a strong wind, thinking:168
Perhaps, Ill get fire. But he got no fire at all.169
163
Bhta,pubba, rjaa, aataro aggiko jailo arayatane paa,kuiy sammati.

Yan nnha yena so sattha,vso tenupasakameyya, appeva nmettha kici upakaraa adhigaccheyyanti. Note sattha,vsa, which means a teachers abode here but below means a caravan camp [23.9 etc].
165
Upasakamitv addasa tasmi sattha,vse dahara kumra manda uttna,seyyaka chaita.
166
The whole para: Na kho me ta patirpa ya me pekkhamnassa manussa,bhto kla,kareyya; yan nnha ima draka assama netv pdeyya poseyya vaheyyanti.
167
Sace ca te aggi nibbyeyya, aya vs imni kahni ida arai,sahita, aggi nibbattetv aggi
paricareyysti.
168
Arai,sahita dvidh phlesi, tidh phlesi, catudh phlesi, pacadh phlesi, dasadh phlesi, satadh
phlesi, sakalika sakalika aksi, sakalika sakalika karitv udukkhale koesi, udukkhale koetv mah,vte
opuni.
169
The ancient brahmins believed that fire (the god Agni) resides in wood, so that it burns for that reasons: see
Aggi Vaccha,gotta S (M 72) @ SD 6.15 (4).
164
86
D 2.10
21.15 Now when the fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic had finished his business in the countryside, he returned to his hermitage, and going to the boy, said this to him:
Why, my dear, have you let the fire go out?
Father, here I was being playful so that the fire went out,
21.16 Then it occurred to me: Father said this to me:
Please attend to the fire, my dear.
fire-sticks. Rekindle the fire and attend to it.
21.17 How now would I rekindle the fire and attend to it?
So I chopped up the fire-sticks with the axes, thinking,
Perhaps, Ill get fire. But I got no fire at all.
21.18 The fire-sticks were split into two, then three parts, four parts, five parts, ten parts, a hundred
parts. I repeatedly splintered them, making splinters of them, and then pounded them in a mortar, and then
winnowed them in a strong wind, thinking:
Perhaps, Ill get fire. But I got no fire at all.
21.19 Then it occurred to the fire-worshipping matted-hair ascetic:
How foolish is this boy, how dense! How can he ever get fire without wise consideration?
As the boy looked on, he took the fire-sticks and started the fire again.
21.20 Then he said this to the boy:
This is how, my dear, [342] fire should be kindled.
Not in being so foolish and dense, seeking fire in such a senseless way!
21.21 Even so, you, too, O prince, are foolish and dense, seeking the other world without wise consideration.
21.22 Discard, O prince, this holding on to bad wrong views! Discard, O prince, this holding on to
bad wrong views! Bring not harm and pain upon yourself for a long time!
Pysis obdurateness (1)

22 Even though master Kassapa says thus, I am unable to give up holding on to these bad wrong
views.170
22.2 For rajah Pasenadi of Kosala knows me, and foreign kings, too, know me, thus:
Prince Pysi holds such a doctrine, such a view, that is to say:
22.3 If I, master Kassapa, were to give up holding on to these bad wrong views, they will say this of
me:
How foolish is prince Pysi, so dense as to hold on to what is difficult to grasp!
I will bear it peevishly! I will bear it scornfully! I will bear it spitefully!171
(11) Parable of the two caravan guides

23.2 Once upon a time, O prince, a great caravan of a thousand carts from the eastern country was
going to the western country.
Wherever it went, it quickly consumed grass, wood, water, and green leaves.172
170
Kicpi bhava kassapo evam ha, atha kho nevha sakkomi ida ppaka dihi,gata painissajjitu. As
at 24.1+26.1.
171
Kopenapi na harissmi, makkhenapi na harissmi, palsenapi na harissmti. In other words, even if
it angers me, if it upsets me, if people denigrate [disparage] me, I will hold on to these views! This is my principle! On makkha and palsa, see Dhamma,dyda S (M 3,10/2:15), SD 2.18.
87
SD 39.4
23.3 Now in this caravan were two caravan guides, one [343] had 500 carts, and the other had 500
carts, too. It occurred to these caravan guides:
This is a great caravan of a thousand carts. Wherever we go, we quickly consume grass, wood, water, and green leaves.
What now if we separated into two caravans of 500 carts each?
23.4 So they separated into two caravans of 500 carts each.
23.5 One caravan guide, having brought along much grass, wood, and water, set out with his caravan.173
Now, after two or three days, the leader saw a black red-eyed man, armed with a quiver, wearing a
garland of lotuses, with wet garments, wet hair, driving an ass-driven chariot with wheels smeared in
mud, approaching in the opposite direction.174
23.6 When he saw him, he said this to him:
Where have you come from, sir?
From such-and-such a country.
Where are you going?
To such-and-such a place.
23.7 Was there heavy rain ahead in the wilderness?
Yes, there was heavy rain ahead in the wilderness. The roads are well watered; there is much grass
[344] and wood.175
Discard, sir, your old grass, wood and water. With a light weight, the carts go faster. Go faster, tire
not the draught-oxen!
23.8 Discard, sirs, your old grass, wood and water. Let us move on with light carts!
Yes, sir, they replied to their caravan guide, and discarded their old grass, wood and water, and the
carts moved on.
23.9 But at the first caravan camp,176 they saw no grass, wood or water, and at the second camp, too;
and the third; the fourth; the fifth; the sixth.
At the seventh caravan camp, too, they saw no grass, wood or water.
23.10 Everyone of them met with misfortune and disaster. And there were neither humans nor animals left in the caravan: the yaksha, a non-human, devoured them all, leaving only the bones.
23.11 As for the second leader, he thought:
Now, sirs, this caravan has gone very far.
Having gathered much grass, wood, and water, his caravan set out.
23.12 After two or three days, the leader saw a black red-eyed man, [345] armed with a quiver,
wearing a garland of lotuses, with wet garments, wet hair, driving an ass-driven chariot with wheels
smeared in mud, approaching in the opposite direction.
23.13 When he saw him, he said this to him:
Where have you come from, sir?
From such-and-such a country.
Where are you going?
To such-and-such a place.
172
So yena yena gacchi, khippa yeva pariydiyati tia,kahodaka haritaka,paa.

Eko sattha,vho bahu tia ca kaha ca udaka ca ropetv sattha paypesi. The caus paypesi, he had
(the caravan) set out (from pyti, he (it) sets outs) is rendered idiomatically here. Cf synonym pyti, from
which comes aor pysi, he set out, which is the name of the antagonist in this Sutta [1.2n].
174
Dvha,tha,payto kho pana so sattho addasa purisa ka lohitakkha sannaddha,kalpa kumuda,mli
alla,vattha alla,kesa kaddama,makkhitehi cakkehi bhadrena rathena paipatha gacchanta.
175
The whole para: Eva, bho, purato kantre mah,megho abhippavuho, sittodakni vaumni, bahu tia ca
kaha ca udaka ca.
176
Caravan camp, sattha,vsa; note that the same word means a teachers abode above [21.4].
173
88
D 2.10
23.14 Was there heavy rain ahead in the wilderness?

Yes, there was heavy rain ahead in the wilderness. The roads are well watered; there is much grass
and wood.
23.15 Then the caravan guide addressed his carters:
Sirs, this man says this:
There is heavy rain ahead in the wilderness. The roads are well watered; there is much grass and
wood.
23.16 But, sirs, this man is neither our friend nor relative: how are we to go by faith in him?177
23.17 Our old grass, wood and water should not be discarded. The caravan will proceed with the supplies we have brought. We shall not discard our old stock.178
Yes, sir, the carters replied to the caravan guide, and the caravan proceeded with the supplies they
had brought.
23.18 At the first caravan camp, they saw no grass, [346] wood or water, and at the second camp,
too; and the third; the fourth; the fifth; the sixth.
At the seventh caravan camp, too, they saw no grass, wood or water.
23.19 Then the caravan saw the misfortune and disaster that had occurred. There were neither humans
nor animals left in the caravan. For, they had been devoured by the yaksha, a non-human, leaving only the
bones.
23.20 Then the caravan guide addressed the carters:
That caravan, sirs, has indeed met with misfortune and disaster on account of the foolish caravan
guide as leader.
23.21 Now then, sirs, let us discard those wares in our caravan that are of little value! Let us keep
those wares that are of great value!179
23.22 Yes, sir, the carters replied to their caraven guide, and from their own caravan, they discarded those wares that are of little value, and kept those wares that are of great value.180
23.23 They safely crossed over the wilderness as a result of the wise caravan guide as their leader.
23.24 Even so, you, too, O prince, foolish and dense, will fall into misfortune and disaster, seeking
the other world without wise considerationjust like the first caravan leader.
Those who think they should believe whatever they hear, would meet with misfortune and disaster
just like the carters.
177
Aya bho puriso neva amhka mitto, na ti,slohito, katha maya imassa saddhya gamissma. Here
ti,slohito is means relations and blood relatives, but has been taken as a synecdoche for the sake of English
idiom.
178
Na vo chaetabbni purni tini kahni udakni, yath,bhatena bhaena sattha paypetha. Na no
pura chaessmti.
179
This and the next 2 paras, as at 22.1-3.
180
Cf Dh 369: Bail out this boat, bhikshus! Bailed out, it will go lightly for you. Having cut off lust and hate,
then you would go to nirvana, sica bhikkhu ima nva | sitt te lahu essati | chetv rga ca dosa ca | tato
nibbna ehisi.
89
SD 39.4

24.1 Even though master Kassapa says thus, I am unable to give up holding on these bad wrong
views.181
Prince Pysi holds such a doctrine, such a view, that is to say: [347]
me:
How foolish is prince Pysi, so dense as to hold on to what is difficult to grasp!182
I will bear it peevishly! I will bear it scornfully! I will bear it spitefully!
(12) Parable of the dung-porter

25.2 Once upon a time, O prince, a certain man, a pig-raiser [swineherd], went from his own village
to another,
There he saw a heap of dry dung that had been discarded.
25.3 Seing it, it occurred to him:
Thats a lot of dry dung183 that had been discarded. What now if I were to bring this dry dung from
here as food for my pigs.184
25.4 He spread out his cloak, and piling up a sufficient amount of dry dung, tied it up in a bundle,
and lifted it upon his head, and moved on.185
25.5 Midway along the road, a great untimely shower fell on him.
25.6 And the load of dung came flowing and trickling down to his very finger-tips, soiling him with
dung.186
25.7 A man, seeing him, said this to him:
Surely, I say, you must be crazy! Surely, youre out of your mind! How can you carry that load of
dung which is flowing and trickling down to your very finger-tips, soiling you with dung!187
Its you here who is surely mad! Youre the one out of your mind! [348] For this is food for my
pigs!
25.8 Even so, you, O prince, I think, are evidently like the dung-porter.188
25.9 Discard, O prince, this holding on to bad wrong views! Discard, O prince, this holding on to bad
wrong views! Bring not harm and pain upon yourself for a long time!
181
Kicpi bhava kassapo evam ha, atha kho nevha sakkomi ida ppaka dihi,gata painissajjitu. As
at 22.1+26.1.
182
Yva blo pysi rjao avyatto duggahita,ghti.
183
This is prob cow-dung, mostly undigested grass and plant matter evacuated by bovines, which is used even today in India, Yunnan and elsewhere for various purposes, such as fuel. It is known in Brit Eng as cowpat, & US as
cow-pie or meadow muffin and dry cow-dung as cow chips. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cow_dung
184
Aya kho pahto sukkha,gtho chaito, mama ca skara,bhatta; yan nnha ito sukkha,gtha hareyyanti.
185
So uttar,saga pattharitv pahta sukkha,gtha kiritv bhaika bandhitv sse ubbhetv agamsi.
186
So uggharanta paggharanta yva agga,nakh gthena makkhito gtha,bhra dya agamsi.
187
Kacci no tva bhae ummatto, kacci viceto, katha hi nma uggharanta paggharanta yva agganakh
gthena makkhito gtha,bhra harissasti.
188
Evam eva kho tva, rjaa, gtha,bhrikpamo mae paibhsi. Cf 27.9 where Kumra Kassapa makes a
second similar charge.
90
D 2.10

26 Even though master Kassapa says thus, I am unable to give up holding on these bad wrong
views.189
me:
How foolish is prince Pysi, so dense as to hold on to what is difficult to grasp!190
(13) Parable of the dice players

27.2 Once upon a time, O prince, there were two gamesters who were playing dice.
One dice player swallowed the dice whenever he had an unlucky throw.191
27.3 Now the second dice player saw the first dice player swallowing the dice whenever he had an
unlucky throw. He said this to him:
Now, my good friend, be a sure winner! Give me the dice, my good friend, we will make a religious
offering!192
Yes, my good friend. and then handed over his dice to the dice-player.
27.4 Then the dice-player immersed the dice with poison.
27.5 Come now, my good friend, lets play a game!
For a second time, the dice-players played dice.
27.6 For a second time, the dice-player swallowed the dice each time he had an unlucky throw.
27.7 The second dice-player, seeing the dice-player [349] swallowing the dice each time he has an
unlucky throw, for the second time, said this to the dice-player:
27.8 Litta paramena tejas
gilam akkha puriso na bujjhati
gila re gila ppa,dhuttaka
pacch te kauka bhavissatti
Smeared with the most potent fire [poison]

is the dice the man swallowed: he knows it not!
Swallow it up! Swallow it, bad dicer!
Bitter will it be to you!
(J 91/1:380)
27.9 Even so, you, O prince, I think, are evidently like the (first) dice-player.193

28 Even though master Kassapa says thus, I am unable to give up holding on these bad wrong
views.194
189
As at 20.1+22.1.
Yva blo pysi rjao avyatto duggahita,ghti.
191
Eko akkha,dhutto gatgata kali gilati.
192
The whole line: Tva kho samma ekantikena jinsi, dehi me samma akkhe pajohissmti. Be Ce pajjohissmi;
Ee pajohissmi; Ke Se pajoharissmi. Comy glosses as we will (or let us) make a pajjohana, an offering (pajjohissmti pajjohana karissmi, bali,kamma karissmti attho, DA 3:812, a sacrifice, juhana, DA 2:449 ). See
D (PTS) 2:348 n6.
193
Cf 25.8, where Kumra Kassapa makes the first similar charge.
190
91
SD 39.4
me:
How foolish is prince Pysi, so dense as to hold on to what is difficult to grasp!
(14) Parable of the hemp load

29.2 Once upon a time, O prince, a certain country arose [emerged].195
29.3 Then one friend addressed another, thus:
My dear friend, lets go to this country. Perhaps we could find some riches there.196
Yes, my dear friend, the friend replied to the other.
29.4 They came to the village, to a certain spot [street].197 [350] There, seeing a great amount of
hemp (sa) cast aside, one friend addressed the other:
This, my dear friend, is a lot of hemp that has been thrown away.
29.5 Well, my friend, you make a bundle of the hemp, and I, too, will do so. Then well both carry
them away.
Yes, my dear friend, the friend replied to the other. Having made bundles of the hemp, they both
carried them along to another village spot [another part of the village].
29.6 There they saw a great amount of hempen threads (sa,sutta) cast aside, and one friend addressed the other:
It is for the wish for this, my dear friend, that we desire hemp, and a lot of hempen threads have been
thrown away here.198
29.7 Well, my friend, you discard your bundle of hemp, and I, too, will do so. Then well both carry
away bundles of hempen threads.
29.8 My dear friend, Ive brought this hemp load a long way and it is well tied up. This is enough
for me. You decide for yourself.199
29.9 So the friend discarded his hemp load and took with him a bundle of hempen threads.
29.10 Then they both came to another part of the village.
29.11 There they saw a great amount of hempen cloth (sa,dussa)200 cast aside, and one friend
addressed the other:
194
As at 22.1+24.1.
Bhta,pubba, rjaa, aataro jana,pado vuhsi.
196
yma samma yena so janapado tenupasakamissma, appeva nmettha kici dhana adhigaccheyymti
197
Te yena so janapado, yena aatara gma,paa tenupasakamisu. Be paa; Ce patta; Ee paddhana; Ke Se pajja (road, path). Here gma,paa (as paddhana, D 2:349,30, 350,9+19, 351,1) seems not to be
found anywhere else, nor in the dictionaries. Comy says that it is a locality arisen in the village, (vuhita,gma,padeso), and gives village path (gma,pada), or street (D:RD & D:W, ad loc) as a synonym (DA 3:812): hence,
it poss refers to the approach to the vilage. It is poss that pata is a synonym of paana, a place, city, port, harbour (J 1:121, 4:16, 137, 4:75; PvA 51). Contextually, it is likely that paa (or its vll) here simply means a place,
spot, as evident below. See PED & DPL sv paana.
198
Yassa kho, samma, atthya iccheyyma sa, ida pahta sa,sutta chaita.
199
Aya kho me samma sa,bhro dr,bhato ca susannaddho ca, ala me, tva pajnhti.
195
92
D 2.10
It is for the wish for this, my dear friend, that we desire hempen threads, and a lot of hempen cloth
has been thrown away here.
29.12 Well, my friend, you discard your bundle of hemp, and I will discard my bundle of hempen
threads. Then well both carry away bundles of hempen cloth.
for me. You decide for yourself.
29.14 So the friend discarded the bundle of hempen threads, and took with him a load of hempen
cloth. [351]
29.15 Then they both came to another part of the village.
29.16-19 There they saw a great amount of flax
khoma
cast aside,...
29.20-23 Then ... There they saw a great amount of flaxen threads khoma,sutta
cast aside,...
29.24-27 Then ... There they saw a great amount of linen cloth
khoma,dussa
cast aside,...
29.28-31 Then .... There they saw a great amount of cotton
kappsika
cast aside,...
29.32-35 Then .... There they saw a great amount of cotton threads kappsika,sutta
cast aside,...
29.36-39 Then .... There they saw a great amount of cotton cloth
kappsika,dussa
cast aside,...
29.40-44 Then .... There they saw a great amount of iron
yo
cast aside,...
29.45-48 Then .... There they saw a great amount of copper
loha
cast aside,...
29.49-52 Then .... There they saw a great amount of tin
tipu
cast aside,...
29.53-56 Then .... There they saw a great amount of lead
ssa
cast aside,...
29.57-60 Then .... There they saw a great amount of silver
sajjha
cast aside,...
29.61-64 Then they both came to another part of the village.
29.65 There they saw a great amount of gold (suvaa) cast aside, and one friend addressed the
other:
It is for the wish for this, my dear friend, that we desire hemp, or hempen threads, or hempen cloth,
or flax, or flaxen threads, or linen cloth, or cotton, or cotton threads, or cotton cloth, or iron, or copper, or
tin, or lead, or silver!
And a lot of gold has been thrown away here.
29.66 Well, my friend, you discard your bundle of hemp, and I will discard my bundle of silver. Then
well both carry away loads of gold.
for me. You decide for yourself.
29.68 So the friend discarded the load of silver, and took with him a load of gold.
29.69 Then they reached their home village.
29.70 There, the friend who returned carrying the hemp load was unable to make his mother and
father happy, nor his women and children happy, nor his friends and colleagues happy, and, on account of
that, he found neither comfort [352] nor joy.201
29.71 As for the friend who brought with him the load of goldhe was able to make his mother and
father happy; he made his women and children happy; he made his friends and colleagues happy; and on
account of that he found comfort and joy.202
29.72 Even so, you, O prince, I think, are evidently like the hemp-bearer.203
200
Siya.
Tattha yo so sahyako sa,bhra dya agamsi, tassa neva mt,pitaro abhinandisu, na putta,dr
abhinandisu, na mittmacc abhinandisu, na ca tato,nidna sukha somanassa adhigacchi.
202
Cf If by giving up a limited happiness, | when he sees abundant happiness, | let the wise abandon the limited
happiness, | considering the abundant happiness (matt,sukha,pariccag | passe ce vipula sukha || caje matt
sukha dhiro | sampassa vipula sukha || Dh 290).
203
Evam eva kho tva, rjaa, gtha,bhrikpamo mae paibhsi. Kumra Kassapa makes similar charges
thrice: 25.8, 27.9, 29.82.
201
93
SD 39.4
Pysi goes for refuge
30 I am already pleased with master Kassapas parable, convinced by him from the very first one.204
But I thought that I would contradict simply out of the desire to hear master Kassapas various insights into the problem.205
30.2 Excellent, Master Kassapa! Excellent! Master Kassapa! Just as if, master Kassapa,
one were to place upright what had been overturned, or
were to reveal what was hidden, or
were to show the way to one who was lost, or
were to hold up a lamp in the dark so that those with eyes could see forms,
in the same way, in numerous ways, the Dharma has been made clear by master Kassapa.
Master Kassapa, I go to the blessed Gotama for refuge, to the Dharma, and to the community of
monks.206
May the master Kassapa remember me as a layman who has gone to him for refuge from this day
forth for life.
Pysis sacrifice & the parables of the fields

30.3 Master Kassapa, I wish to offer a great sacrifice. Instruct me, master Kassapa, on how to have
a long life that is well and happy for myself.
31 AN UNWHOLESOME SACRIFICE
A sacrifice, O prince, where oxen are killed, or goats are killed, or chicken and pigs are killed, various living beings come to destruction,207
and the participants [353] have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, and wrong concentration
such a sacrifice, O prince, has no great fruit, no great benefit, no great renown, no great pervasion.208
31.2 BAD SEEDS IN A POOR FIELD
Just as a plowman, O prince, were to enter a forest, bringing with him seed and plough,
204
Purimeneva aha opammena bhoto kassapassa attamano abhiraddho. Attamano (Skt pta + manas), is
satisfied, pleased, cheerful; willing, benevolent (D 2:14,21 = M 3:122,28; Sn 45 = M 3:154,19* = Dh 328 = J
3:418,19*; A 1:276,22, 3:337,13*; Sn 995; Vv 1:4): see CPD sv. Abhiraddho (abhi + raddha; V 1:70,23; D 2:352,11 M 1:378,28 1:379,5-19 2:163,21 A 4:185,26; M 3:271,17; ApA 420,30), pp of abhiradheti, abhiradbayati, he conciliates, wins over, is satisfied, pleases (J 1:322,11*). A similar sentiment is expressed by the erstwhile
Jain follower, Upli, to the Buddha, in Upli S (M 56.15/1:378), SD 27.1. See CPD & DP, svv, for details. See also
foll n.
205
Api cha imni vicitrni pah,paibhnni sotu,kmo evha bhavanta kassapa paccanka ktabba
amaissa. Parallel passage in Upli S (M 56), but reading paha,paibhnni (M 56,15/1:378), SD 27.1. Insight
into the problem (paha,paibhna), as at Pysi S (D 23,30.1/2:352 @ SD 39.4) & also Mah Sha,nda S (M
12,63/1:83), which I B Horner renders as ways of putting questions (M:H 2:44); amoli/Bodhi: replies to
questions (M:B 484), which follows Buddhaghosas gloss as paha,vykaraa (question-answering) (MA
3:88 = 2:53), but :[t]his perhaps slightly misunderstands him (Cousins 1997: 269). BHSD: Pratibhna refers to
readiness in speech, presence of mind, self-confidence or brilliance, esp as manifested in speech; quick-wittedness, inspiration). Of course, as Buddhaghosa indicates, this could manifest here precisely in the manner of replying. (Cousins, id). See Intro (1.2).
206
Esha bho kassapa ta bhavanta gotama saraa gacchmi dhamma ca bhikkhu,sagha ca. Note
here that Pysi goes to the Buddha for refuge with Kumra Kassapa as witness. See The one true refuge, SD 3.1
(1).
207
Come to destruction, sagha ppaji. The word saghta (striking, killing, murder, destruction)
occurs at V 1:137; D 1:141, 2:354; M 1:78; A 2:42 f.
208
Eva,rpo kho, rjaa, yao na maha-p,phalo hoti na mahnisaso na mah,jutiko na mah,vipphro.
94
D 2.10
and there, in a poor field, poor ground, with stumps and brambles uncleared,
he were to sow seeds that are broken, rotten, damaged by wind and sun, unviable,
not properly planted, and if there were no proper and timely rain,209
would these seeds sprout and grow in abundance?
Would the farmer obtain an abundant yield?210
No, indeed, master Kassapa, not in this case!
31.3 A WHOLESOME SACRIFICE
Even so, O prince, in such a sacrifice, where no oxen are killed, no goats are killed, neither chickens
nor pigs are killed, nor any kind of life brought to destruction,
and the participants have right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right
effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration.
O prince, such a sacrifice is of great fruit, of great profit, of great splendour, and would spread far and
wide.
31.4 GOOD SEEDS IN A GOOD FIELD
Just as a farmer, O prince, were to enter a forest, bringing with him a plough and seeds,
and there, in a good field, of good soil, cleared of stumps and thorns,
were to sow seeds [354] that are unbroken, fresh, undamaged by wind and sun, viable,
properly planted, and if there proper and timely rain,
would these seeds sprout and grow in abundance?
Would the farmer obtain an abundant yield?
Yes, master Kassapa!211
31.5 Even so, O prince, such a sacrifice, where oxen are killed, or goats are killed, or chicken and
pigs are killed, various living beings come to destruction,
and the participants have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood,
wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, and wrong concentration
such a sacrifice, O prince, has no great fruit, no great benefit, no great renown, no great pervasion.
31.6 In such a sacrifice, O prince, where no oxen are killed, no goats are killed, neither chickens nor
pigs are killed, nor any kind of life brought to destruction,
and the participants have right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right
effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration
such a sacrifice, O prince, is of great fruit, of great profit, of great splendour, and would spread far
and wide.
The brahmin youth Uttara

32 Then prince Pysi made offerings to recluses, brahmins, the poor, the homeless, wayfarers and
beggars.212 And amongst that giving, he gave broken rice gruel together with vinegar, and rough cloth
with thick fringes.213
209
Proper and timely rain, devo ca samm dhra, lit right and seasonable rain.
So tattha dukkhette dubbhme avihata,khu,kaake bjni patihpeyya, khani ptni vtta,pahatni
asradni asukha,sayitni. For a similar parable, see Sarakni S 2 (S 55.25.13/5:379,32), SD 77.8.
211
On Pysis proposed sacrifice, cf Kadantas: see Kadanta S (D 5) @ SD 22,8 (3.2).
212
Atha kho pysi rjao dna pahapesi samaa,brhmaa,kapaaddhika,vaibbaka,ycakna. The underscored phrase at D 1:137,24, 2:354,14; It 65,5; PvA 78; J 1:6, 262; DhA 1:105, 188 (written k~,andhika); DA
1:298.
213
Tasmi kho pana dne eva,rpa bhojana dyati kajaka bilaga,dutiya, dhorakni* ca vatthni gua,vlakni. *Be Ce:BJT dhorakni; Ce vl thevakni Ee therakni; Ke Se corakni (untraced: conjectural tr). On the
underscored phrase, see V 2:77,4 = 3:160,21 (VA 580,9), 2:78,11; D 2:354,16 (DA 814,9), 355,15; S 1:90,2 (SA
1:159,1), 91,32 = DhA 4:77,13; A 1:145,22 (AA 2:241,12), 4:392,18 (AA 4:179,1); J 1:228,6, 3:299,6 SnA 94; DhA
3:10,16 (vl pilaka,~aka); SnA 2:94,22; VvA 222,11, 298,1 (bilaka~).
210
95
SD 39.4
32.2 Now, for that occasion, a brahmin youth named Uttara214 supervised the giving.215
32.3 Having given the offering, he repeatedly declared:216
Through this giving, I have associated with prince Pysi only in this world, but not the next!217
32.4 Now prince Pysi heard: [355]
It is said that the brahmin youth Uttara repeatedly declared:
Through this giving, I have associated with prince Pysi only in this world, but not the next!
32.5 Then prince Pysi had the brahmin youth Uttara summoned and said this to him:
Is it true, dear Uttara, that you, having given the offering, repeatedly declared:
Through this giving, I have associated with prince Pysi only in this world, but not the next!?
Yes, sir.
32.6 But why, dear Uttara, have you, having given the offering, repeatedly declared:
Through this giving, I have associated with prince Pysi only in this world, but not the next!?
Have we, dear Uttara, who desire merit, not been expecting the fruit of this very giving?218
32.7 But in your giving, sir, you give such food as broken rice gruel together with vinegar, which
you yourself, sir, would not wish to touch with even your feet, much less to eat,
and the rough cloth with thick fringes, which you yourself, sir, would not wish to touch with even
your feet, much less to wear!
32.8 But you, sir, are beloved and agreeable to ushow are we to associate the agreeable with the
disagreeable?
32.9 In that case, dear Uttara, you arrange that such food that I eat be given,219
and such clothes that I wear be given!220
32.10 Yes, sir, replied the brahmin youth Uttara to prince Pysi,
and he arranged that such food that prince Pysi eats be given,221
and such clothes that he wears be given.222 [356]
32.11 Then, prince Pysi,
having given offerings without care [without enthusiasm],
asakkacca dna datv,
having given offerings not with his own hands,
asahatth dna datv,
having given offerings without proper thought,
acitt,kata dna datv,
having given offerings of what is rejected,
apaviddha dna datv,
with the bodys breaking up, after death, was reborn in companionship with the devas of the Four Great
Kings, in an empty mansion called Acacia [Sersaka].223
32.12 As for the brahmin youth Uttara, who was intent on his own giving
having given his offering with care,
sakkacca dna datv,
214
On the brahmin youth Uttara (uttara mava), see Intro (4).

Tasmi kho pana dne uttaro nma mavo vyvao* ahosi. *Ee Ke Se vyvao (pref); Be vvao; Ce byvao
Cf dna~ serving in connection with a gift, busy with giving, a commissioner of gifts, ie a superintendent installed
by a higher (rich) person (as a king or sehi) to look after the distribution of all kinds of gifts in connection with a
mahdna (PED: avyvaa, qv). See eg D 2:354; J 3:129; Pv 2.9.50 (dne yaassa ~ = ussukka panna, showed endeavour, PvA 135); PvA 112 (dne), 124 (id).
216
Repeatedly declared, anuddisati. ie, by way dedicating the offerings: see CPD.
217
Iminha dnena pysi rjaam eva imasmi loke samgacchi, m parasminti.
218
Nanu maya, tta uttara, puatthik dnasseva phala pikakhinoti?
219
Tena hi tva, tta uttara, ydisha bhojana bhujmi, tdisa bhojana pahapehi.
220
Ydisni cha vatthni paridahmi, tdisni ca vatthni pahapehti.
221
Tena hi tva, tta uttara, ydisha bhojana bhujmi, tdisa bhojana pahapehi.
222
See 32.17, where prince Pysi confirms his improved giving being made on his behalf by Uttara. Cf Rhys
Davids thinks that Uttara does this apparently at his own expense, which is unlikely (D:RD 2:372 n4).
223
Kyassa bhed para mara ctu,mah.rjikna devna sahavyata upapajji sua sersaka vimna. On this stock passage, see Deva,dta S (M 130,2/3:178 @ SD 2.23.
215
96
D 2.10
having given his offering with his own hands,

sahatth dna datv,
having given his offering with proper thought,
cittkata dna datv,
having given his offering of not what is discarded,
anapaviddha dna datv,
with the bodys breaking up, after death, was reborn in a happy state, in a heaven world, in companionship with the devas of the Thirty-three.224
The devaputra Pysi
32.13 Now at that time, the venerable Gavam,pati225 regularly went to the Acacia [Sersaka] mansion for his day residence.
32.14 Then the devaputra Pysi approached the venerable Gavam,pati, saluted him and stood at one
side. As he stood thus at one side, the venerable Gavam,pati said this to the devaputra Pysi:
Who are you, avuso [friend]?
I, bhante, am prince Pysi.
32.15 Arent you the one who held this view, that is to say:
32.16 That is true, bhante, I held such a view, that is to say:
But [357] the noble Kumra Kassapa detached me from holding on to those bad wrong views.
The devaputra Uttara

32.17 And what about the brahmin youth named Uttara? Where is he reborn?
The brahmin youth named Uttara, bhante, supervised the giving
having given his offering
with care,
with his own hands,
with proper thought,
of the not discarded,
with the bodys breaking up, after death, was reborn in a happy state, in a heaven world, in companionship with the devas of the Thirty-three.226
32.18 But I, bhante,
having given offerings
without care [without enthusiasm],
not with my own hands,
without proper thought,
of the not discarded,
Kings, in an empty mansion called Acacia.
The proper way of giving to the sangha
32.19 As such, bhante Gavam,pati, when you return to the human world, please declare this:227
224
Uttaras act here, resulting in rebirth in the heaven of the Thirty-three, is recorded in Uttara Vimna Vatthu
(Vv 74/6.10/109 f): see Intro (4).
225
On the elder Gavam,pati, see Intro (4.2).
226
Vimna,vatthu Comy says that his celestial mansion (vimna) is 12 leagues (yojana), ie about 19.3 km (84
mi) wide (VvA 298).
227
The foll set is well known: Pysi S (D 23,32.19, pl), SD 39.4; but elsewhere, with a 5 th factor, viz, seeing
what is to come: Ca Puama S (M 110,23/3:24, sg), SD 45.4; Velma S (A 9.20,3/4:393), SD 16.6. Cf Sakka
97
SD 39.4
Give offerings with care,

sakkacca dna detha.
Give offerings with your own hands,
sa,hatth dna detha.
Give offerings with proper thought,
citt,kata dna detha.
Give offerings of the not discarded.
anapaviddha dna detha.
32.20 Prince Pysi,
without care [without enthusiasm],
not with his own hands,
without proper thought,
of what is discarded,
Kings, in an empty mansion called Acacia.
32.21 The brahmin youth Uttara,
with care,
with his own hands,
with proper thought,
of the not discarded, [358]
with the bodys breaking up, after death, was reborn in a happy state, in a heaven world, in companionship with the devas of the Thirty-three.
eva
Bibliography
Analayo Bhikkhu
2012
Debate with a ScepticThe Drgha-gama parallel to the Pysi-sutta (1), Indian
International Journal of Buddhist Studies 13 2012:1-26. download
2013
Debate with a ScepticThe Drgha-gama parallel to the Pysi-sutta (2), Indian
International Journal of Buddhist Studies, 2013 14 (forthcoming).
Bodhi, Bhikkhu
1985
(Tr) The Discourse on the Fruits of Recluseship: The Smaaphala Sutta and its Commentaries. Kandy: Buddhist Publication Soc, 1985.
Cousins, Lance Selwyn
1997
Review of amoli & Bodhi (trs), The Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha (1995),
Journal of Buddhist Ethics 4, 1997: 260-280. http://www.buddhistethics.org/4/cous1.pdf
Evans, Stephen A
2008
Pysi as scientist: A Nikyan critique of scientific method. Mahachulalongkorn Journal of Buddhist Studies, Bangkok, 2008:53-70.
https://sites.google.com/site/accesstoacademicpapers/Home/buddhist-studies.
Harvey, Peter
1995
Contemporary Characteristics of the Philosophy of Nikyan Buddhism. Buddhist Studies Review 12,2 1995:109-133.
Jayatilleke, K N
1963
Early Buddhist Theory of Knowledge. London: Allen & Unwin 1963; repr Delhi: Motilal
Banarsidass, 1980.
Pemarathana, S
Nma S (S 11.12/1:229 f). For a set of 5 such factors, see Sappurisa Dna S (A 5.148/3:172), SD 22.15. For various conditions of giving, see Aputtaka S 2 (S 3.20/1:91-93), SD 22.5 (2).
98
D 2.10
2004
Popper, Karl
1959

The Notion of Verification in early Buddhism. MA in Philosophy Thesis, National Univ
of Singapore, 2004.
The Logic of Scientific Discovery [German, Logik der Forschung, 1935]. London:
Hutchinson, 1959.
Trainor, Kevin
1993
In the eye of the beholder: Non-attachment and the body in Subhs verse (Thergth
71). Journal of the American Academy of Religion 61.1 1993:57-79.
Wallace, Alan
2003
Buddhism and Science: Breaking new ground. NY: Columbia Univ Press, 2003.
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99

39.4 Payasi S d23 Piya

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D 2.

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

2 Sutta summary and highlights.

On its canonical account, see The Five Hundred (Cv 11 @ V 2:284-293).

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

For a discussion on Pysis views, see Jayatilleke, 1963:104-106.

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

Tena kho pana samayena pysi rjao

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

Occurrences of pariyya in Pysi Sutta

VvA 297f, 331 f.

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

4 The brahmin youth Uttara

For a fuller discussion on pariyya, see Pariyya nippariyya, SD 68.2.

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

The Pysi Discourse

Kumra Kassapa arrives at Setavy

On Kumra Kassapa, see SD 28.13 (2).

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

2.2 The brahmin housemasters53 of Setavy heard this:

Pysi learns of Kumra Kassapas visit

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

Seeing them, he addressed his attendant:60

Pysi wishes to meet Kumra Kassapa

Pysi meets Kumra Kassapa

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

(1) Parable of the sun and the moon

Pysis proof (1): Hell-beings do not return

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

There are no spontaneously born beings. [320]

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

have indulged in frivolous chatter,

(2) The parable of the thief to be executed

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

Pysi proof (2): Heavenly beings do not return

Labheyya nu kho so coro coraghtesu.

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions?

Are reborn: see n ad loc 6.6.

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

that there is the fruit or result of good and bad actions.

(3) Parable of the man in a cesspool

Cf Pysis argument at 6.9.

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

that there is the fruit or result of good and bad actions.

Pysis proof (3): Those reborn in Tvatisa did not return

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

that there is the fruit or result of good and bad actions.

(4) The Tvatisa parable

(5) The parable of the one born blind

11.7 Suppose, O prince, there is a man born blind,103 who

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta

Dgha Nikya 2, Mah Vagga 10

Pysis proof (4): Why dont good people kill themselves?

D 23/2:316-357 Pysi Sutta