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Calculating short circuit of parallel generators

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02-09-12 03:49 PM
J oin Date:
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Aug 2010
Lambertville, MI
4
Calculating short circuit of parallel generators
I have (6) 1.25MVA generators feeding a paralleling switchgear. To determine the
switchgear short circuit rating, do I calculate the short circuit of each individual
generator and multiply by (6) generators? Or do I consider the system as (1)
7.5MVA generator with an equivalent parallel Xd" (1/Xd" total = 1/Xd"1 + 1/Xd"2
+ ...)?
#1
J unior Member
Noooorm
02-09-12 04:07 PM
J oin Date:
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Feb 2003
Wisconsin
7,465
Good idea.
Actually I put six of them into my software (PTW by SKM) and let it do itss thing.
#2
Moderator
jim dungar
Originally Posted by Noooorm
I have (6) 1.25MVA generators feeding a paralleling switchgear. To determine the
switchgear short circuit rating, do I calculate the short circuit of each individual
generator and multiply by (6) generators?...
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Calculating short circuit of parallel generators http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=143070
1 of 6 11/17/2012 6:56 PM
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
02-09-12 04:25 PM
J oin Date:
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Aug 2010
Lambertville, MI
4
Could you? I don't have the software. They're 400V, 50hZ. I guess go with the
worst case, 0.09 for X"d. I'll see which answer it's closest to.
#3
J unior Member
Noooorm
02-09-12 04:29 PM
J oin Date:
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May 2005
Redmond, WA
694
#4
Senior Member
rcwilson
Calculating short circuit of parallel generators http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=143070
2 of 6 11/17/2012 6:56 PM
Calculate for one generator and multiply by 6.
I short circuit = FLA/Xd" = [1.25 x 1000/(.480 x 1.732) ] /0.2 = 1504 /0.2 A =
7517 Amps per generator.
7517 Amps x 6 = 45,106 Amps
Or using the MVA method:
Assume typical Xd" = 0.2, Short Circuit MVAsc = 1.25 MVA/ 0.2 = 6.25 MVA,
I short circuit = MVAsc x 1000 / (kV x1.732) = 7517 amps (assuming 480 V).
Total short circuit = 7517 amps x 6 = 45,106 Amps.
Same answer if we multiply MVAsc of one generator by 6 and calculate amps.
6.25 x 6 = 37.5 MVA total short circuit power,
I = 37.5x 1000/(0.480 x 1.732) = 45,107 Amps.
Since the impedance Xd" is per unit or per cent and not in actual ohms we don't
need to calculate the parallel impedance. Example:
Six each 1.25 MVA units = 7.5 MVA all with Xd"=0.2. MVAsc = 7.5/0.2 = 37.5 MVA,
same answer as above.
Bob Wilson P.E.
Originally Posted by Noooorm
I have (6) 1.25MVA generators feeding a paralleling switchgear. .... calculate the
short circuit of each individual generator and multiply by (6) generators? Or do I
consider the system as (1) 7.5MVA generator with an equivalent parallel Xd" (1/Xd"
total = 1/Xd"1 + 1/Xd"2 + ...)?
02-09-12 04:31 PM
J oin Date:
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Feb 2003
Seattle, WA
16,105
I think you will get the same answer either way. If the generators were not
identical, however, a method closer to your second one would be needed. But
my preference is to use SKM, and leave the messy math to someone else.
Charles E. Beck, P.E., Seattle
Comments based on 2008 NEC unless otherwise noted.
#5
Moderator
charlie b
02-09-12 04:33 PM
#6
Calculating short circuit of parallel generators http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=143070
3 of 6 11/17/2012 6:56 PM
J oin Date:
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May 2005
Redmond, WA
694
400V will change you short circuit current to 480/400 x 45,107 = 54, 128 if your
generators have the typical 0.2 Xd". I think most generators in this size have Xd" =
0.12 - 0.25 per unit ( 12-25%).
Don't forget to add in any contribuiton form motor loads.
Bob Wilson P.E.
Senior Member
rcwilson
02-09-12 04:48 PM
J oin Date:
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Aug 2010
Lambertville, MI
4
Thank you! You are gentlemen and scholars.
#7
J unior Member
Noooorm
02-10-12 02:26 PM
J oin Date:
Posts:
J un 2003
5,229
That was my first though too, but it doesn't seem to work. Consider (2) 1KW
generators, z = 0.2. That's 5000 amps SC per genrators, or 10000 amps total.
Using the second method, you would have a 2 KW generator, and z =0.2 in parallel
with 0.2 would be 0.1. 2000/ 0.1 = 20,000 amps. Unless my math is wrong, that
answer is too high.
For the second generator, we are both doubling the capacity, and halving the
impedence, giving a 4 fold increase, when the real fault current is only going up by
a factor of 2.
#8
Senior Member
steve66
Originally Posted by charlie b
I think you will get the same answer either way. If the generators were
not identical, however, a method closer to your second one would be
needed. But my preference is to use SKM, and leave the messy math
to someone else.
#9
Calculating short circuit of parallel generators http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=143070
4 of 6 11/17/2012 6:56 PM
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02-10-12 05:15 PM
J oin Date:
Location:
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May 2005
Redmond, WA
694
The generator impedance is expressed in percent or per unit. It is the measured or
calculated impedance based on the generator nameplate data. That number is not
the actual real world ohms that we could measure with an ohmmeter (if there was
such a thing as an AC ohmmeter).
If 0.2 was real world ohms, then adding them like parallel resistances is correct.
But since it is a percentage or per unit number we don't change it when we are
paralleling identical units.
Said another way, the per unit impedance of two paralleled 1 MVA generators with
impedance = 0.2 pu is still 0.2 per unit. The math works because on individual
units, it's 0.2 per unit of 1 MVA and on two parallel units it's 0.2 of 2 MVA.
If you want to do it in real world ohms just convert to ohms:
MVA = kV^2 / Z. (Power = voltage squared/ ohms impedance). or Z= kV^2 /MVA.
Zgen = (0.400kV x 0.400kV)/ 1.25 MVA = 0.1280 ohms. This is the 100% or 1.0
per unit impedance. If Xd"= 0.2 pu, then Zgen = 0.2 x 0.1280= 0.0256 ohms
Short circuit current for one 1.25 MVA generator at the OP's 400V is limited only by
the generator impedance of 0.0256 ohms. Isc = 400V / (0.0256 x 1.732) = 9,021
amps. Six generators would be 6 x 9021= 54,126 Amps.
With six generators in parallel the impedance for a short circuit would be the
parallel impedance of six generators = 1/ (1/0.0256 + 1/0.0256 + 1/0.0256 +
1/0.0256 + 1/0.0256 + 1/0.0256) = 0.0256/6
Z= 0.00427. Isc = V/Z where V= phase- neutral volts = 400 /(1.732 x .00427) =
54,126 amps.
I probably confused some of us, but I was trying to explain the per unit, per cent
concept.
Bob Wilson P.E.
Senior Member
rcwilson
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