Lines and Frames: An Interview with R.O.

Blechman
BY JEET HEER MAY 26, 2011

Dapper and compact, soft-spoken and full of erudite conversation, R.O. Blechman is the single most cosmopolitan cartoonist Ive ever met. He could easily e a character in a Henry !ames novel. "ppropriately enough, his art o#es a de t to that mid-century mansion of metropolitan #it, Harold RossNew Yorker, #here !ames $hur er and %illiam &teig returned cartoons to their roots in doodling. Blechmans scraggly-lined people, so minimal that they are arely visi le, sho# #hat happens #hen the tradition of $hur er and &teig is taken to its e'treme. "ll e'cess is removed and every drop of ink counts. Born in Brooklyn in ()*+, Oscar Ro ert ,-Bo ./ Blechman made his mark as a cartoonist at a young age, #ith his no# classic #ork The Juggler of Our Lady coming out in ()0*, not long after he had graduated from O erlin 1ollege. One of several protographic novels from the late ()2+s and early ()0+s, The Juggler of Our Lady earned praise for its heartfelt story and touchingly spare art. It #as made into an animated short in ()03. Blechman has gone on to distinguish himself as a maga4ine cartoonist ,appearing in everything from Harvey 5urt4mans Humbug to Esquire/, animator ,he directed the ()32 6B& special The Soldiers Tale, #hich #on an 7mmy/, advertising mastermind ,his many ads, including the ()89 "lka-&elt4er commercial, are a fi'ture of post-#ar visual culture/. In recent years, hes authored a kids ook ,Franklin he Fly/ and a very astute ook of advice for freelance creators , !ear James" Le ers o a Young #llus ra or/. In :++), Dra#n and ;uarterly pu lished Talking Lines" The $ra%hi& S ories of '(O( )le&hman, a sturdy and sumptuous collection that usefully gathers together fugitive pieces done over several decades. $his month, hes eing honoured #ith the <ilton 1aniff =ifetime "chievement "#ard from the >ational 1artoonist &ociety. I intervie#ed Bo Blechman on Octo er *+, :++) #hen he #as in $oronto to give a talk #ith &eth at the International ?estival of "uthors. <y only regret in meeting Blechman #as that I didnt tape our dinner ta le conversation, #here he ranged even #ider over his remarka le career.

R. O. BLECHMAN: I rought a copy of !ear James for you. HEER: I actually contacted your pu lisher &imon and &chuster ahead of time and got a copy. Its actually a very nice physical ook as #ell. BLECHMAN: Its O5, yeah. HEER: >othing like Talking Lines. BLECHMAN: >o. HEER: I dont kno# ho# familiar you are #ith Dra#n @ ;uarterly, ut their other ooks are all very nice physical o Aects. I think thats #here 1hris Oliveros really distinguished himself. BLECHMAN: Beah. HEER: "ll the ooks y &eth and many other cartoonists are all really eautiful o Aects. BLECHMAN: But my e'perience #ith him is that he is a first-rate editor. He #as very involved in the selection of pieces, and sometimes he did things that I #ould never think of. ?or e'ample, the very last piece in the ook I thought #ould e -Ceorgie.. %hich is a dark piece. &o 1hris thought, -Hey, lets ring the reader up a little it. so he thought to includeD HEER: -=ooking in the <irror.E BLECHMAN: Bes, its nice, ecause num er one, its auto iographical. "nd num er t#o, theres a little humor and lightness #hich Cod kno#s the reader #ould like FHeer laughsG after having gone through the harro#ing adventure of this poor dog. HEER: Beah, thats right. BLECHMAN: Its typical of ho# 1hris has een very instrumental in the shaping of this ook. HEER: Bes. I totally agree. Its interesting. $heres another maga4ine that #as doing a profile of Dra#n @ ;uarterly and of 1hris. I told the intervie#er that 1hris really sort of harkens ack to the older style of editors #ho really creates a list and really does a lot Aust in terms of selecting stuff and y editing his list. He reminds me of !ames =aughlin #ho did New !ire& ions. BLECHMAN: Oh, #o#. HEER: Bou kno#, like that sort of pu lisher. BLECHMAN: <y hero. I love New !ire& ions. I #as a out to say, I think 1hris is the <a'#ell 6erkins of the graphic novel industry. He, again, #as e'traordinarily helpful and I must say, I resisted this cover ecause I thought it #as so &tein ergian. But Im so glad that, finally, it #as produced. It only happened ecause I couldnt come up #ith my o#n design. I love to do design #ork, ut I couldnt think of anything etter than that. HEER: I dont think &tein erg is anything to e snee4ed at. $hats actually one of the Huestions I had.

BLECHMAN: Beah, sure. HEER: %as going to e pursuing this. O viously, that New Yorker generation, not the first generation, like 6eter "rno or 1harles "ddams #ho are very lush, ut the second generation of $hur er and &tein erg. Bou never mentioned &teig. BLECHMAN: Bes I did. HEER: Oh, you did mention &teig. BLECHMAN: =et me think a out it D >o, I pro a ly didnt. I pro a ly didnt. HEER: $hose are the three that come to mind #hen I Aust look at your #ork. BLECHMAN: %ell, its interesting. I #ould say there are may e four generations. $he first #ould e the #ork of the first cover artist #hose name I forget. HEER: ReaE BLECHMAN: Beah, yeah. "nd the editor D HEER: RossE BLECHMAN: "t least I remem er your name and my name, I cant remem er anything else. But Ross told his #riters to look at the #ork of Rea Irvin and then model their o#n stuff after him. But, e that as it may, there #as a look in the :+s and *+s that #as supplanted, if you #ill, y the look of the 2+s, #hich #as may e 6eter "rno, 1harles "ddams, $hur er and so forth. $hen there #as a look of the 0+s and 8+s #hen =ee =oren4 #as there. $he stuff ecame Huite anecdotal. "ll those three name ladies from =ong Island. FHeer laughsG $hen theres the ?rancoise F<oulyG ook #hich is pretty much the "rt &piegelman kind of in-your-face graphics I think there #ere all these stages. I #as involved in the third stage, and had one cover in the fourth stage. HEER: Oh, O5. BLECHMAN: "nd that #as it. But so e it. HEER: %hen did you first ecome a#are of The New YorkerE BLECHMAN: Oh, Cod. 7arly on, my !ear James talks a lot a out that. %hen it #as first starting out, I #ould su mit cartoons to them. "nd everything #as reAected, ut !ear James goes into the #hole thing, so #hy should I repeat it if you have !ear James. $hey reAected everything, and then finally they accepted something #ith a hand-#ritten letter. &o I didnt do any #ork for a long time D >o more su missions ecause I #as afraid I #ould e dropped a notch to the printed reAection slips.

Illustration by Blechman

HEER: Beah, ut in terms of the ages you #ere talking a out. It #as very much like it #as the second age of $hur er that #as #hen you ecame a#are of the maga4ine. BLECHMAN: Oh yeah. It #as during the very early 0+s D late 2+s. I never read the maga4ine that much, ut I sure as hell admired the covers and the cartoons, oth. "nd no#, y the #ay, #hat is very interesting a out The New Yorker is the illustrations, #hich they never had efore ?rancoise F<oulyG. $hats really done primarily y 1hris 1urry. Im so delighted I can think of the name. Ive forgotten so many. 1hris 1urry. "nd she has a #hole ne# look, #hich is very much the look of graphic novelists, I thought. HEER: $hats right. " lot of the Dra#n @ ;uarterly people, "drian F$omineG. 1hris %are, &eth I theyve all een incorporated into The New Yorker no#. BLECHMAN: %hich is a great look, I love it. "s a matter of fact, &eth had something in todays New York Times. HEER: Oh yeah, I sa# that. Its interesting, ecause he is also someone #hos a generation after, ut he studies the classic New Yorker and incorporated it into this style. &o you #ere more a#are of the maga4ine visually rather editoriallyE BLECHMAN: "lthough Im a great reader. I Aust happen not to have read all that much of The New Yorker, ut occasionally #hen I do read it, I like it a lot. But again, I have so many ooks and other maga4ines and ne#spapers to read that I dra# the line at D %ell, occasionally Ill read something in The New Yorker, ut it is not my primary reading matter.

Blechman!s 1""0 #e$ Yor%er co&er

HEER: >o#, am I #rong in thinking that initially, not from you, ut from other cartoonists, there #as initially a resistance to the $hur er style. BLECHMAN: Oh, no. " resistanceE Cod no. HEER: I al#ays have this sense that people, a lot of the classic cartoonists I the 6eter "rno I types #ho put a lot of s#eat into that #ould look at $hur er and say D BLECHMAN: >o, I dont think so. $hey admired him. "ctually, its rather Ro ert <ankoff #ho on a radio intervie#, Im told, dismissed, e'traordinarily, $hur ers art#ork. %hich is kind of ama4ing. But, no, I think they all loved it. $here #as so much #it and humor and intelligence and philosophy in his stuff that they may have forgiven the primitive dra#ing style. $here #ere a lot of artists in the :+s and *+s #ho dre# in a similar style. $heres a guy called Hendrik %illem van =oon. $hat so called naive look #as not unpopular #hen $hur er #as functioning. $hur er never thought of himself as an artist, he #ould Aust do pencil dra#ings and then other people #ould pick them up off the floor or the gar age can and ink them for production. HEER: $hats right. I think if it #asnt for 7.B. %hite, $hur er #ouldnt have ecome a cartoonist, #hich is interesting. $he reason that I am asking is to kind of get to the Huestion of style. It sort of comes up in !ear James and may e a little it in Talking Lines as #ell. Its an interesting thing that #hen an artist starts out, he or she often imitates #hats around them and e'periments in different

forms until he or she finds that voice, that particular thing. <ay e I asking in a rounda out #ay, ut Im trying trying to get at that Huestion of style. %hat #ere the voices you practiced efore finding your styleE BLECHMAN: %ell, Ill Aust ans#er this Huestion elliptically. <y very first Ao #as for a defunct maga4ine called *ark Eas ( $heres no contemporary eHuivalent. But I #as told, -give me a page of dra#ing and Ill give you a hundred ucks.. "nd I thought, Cod, the guy is actually going to pay me one hundred dollars for my dra#ingsE &o my first ones, #hich may e #as my first pu lished #ork, that #as in ()0: or ()0*, #as done in a stitched line techniHue. %hich #as very popular at the time, it #as kind of innovated y Ben &hahn and taken over y David &tone <artin I I think #as the guys name. "nd even, elieve it or not, "ndy %arhol #hen he #as first starting, he did the stitched line techniHue. But my #ork #as done in that style. But part of it, I no# remem er, #as that I #as given another Ao . I think it #as for the !e#ish $heological &eminary and my stuff #as very tight ecause I didnt think that a loose techniHue #as appropriate. "nd then, ho# did I come to my styleE I think its a mystery, I dont kno# if any artist can ever say ho#. But it #as a gradual, very slo#, la orious process in #hich a lot of it is natural, it comes out of you. But a lot of it is ar itrary and artificial, ecause you say, hey I feel comforta le #ith this, I like it, Im going to e'plore this. I did a lot of my dra#ings in pencil ecause I thought that the pencil line #as nice. I #ould soon reali4e that the pencil line #as not so nice and so I started doing #ork in ink. I dont kno#, I Aust dont kno# ho# I came across my style. Its not that I copied $hur er or copied &tein erg even though there may have een &tein ergian elements in my stuff. HEER: <ay e to go ack a little itJ you said that you hadnt intended to e an artist originally. "lthough you #ent to a D BLECHMAN: <usic and "rt High &chool. I didnt intend to go for music and art. I kind of slipped into it. "s a matter of fact my art teacher #ouldnt even give me a letter of recommendation. &he asically said -=ook, I cant say anything good a out you, and I #ont say anything ad a out you so I #ont say anything.. But, it may have had to do #ith the fact that my neigh or #as a ?rench refugee and a painter, a ohemian, eautiful londe young lady and I guess I #as in love #ith her and Dyou kno#, -in love.. HEER: Bou had a crushE BLECHMAN: Beah, I had a crush on her. "nd may e, and this only occurred to me a fe# years ago. <ay e my desire to go to art school #as a #ay of identifying #ith her. "nd even #hen I #ent to art school, I didnt think of myself as an artist. I #as surprised #hen I #as accepted. HEER: $hats interesting, that reminded me of something. %e have an acHuaintance, or a friend in common, =eanne &hapton. BLECHMAN: Ill e damned. Kery good. HEER: Beah, and =eanne mentioned to me, #e #ere talking a out you, and she descri ed you as a ?rancophile , #hich comes through in your #ork may e a little it. =ike, theres a little it of may e ?olon in you D BLECHMAN: Oh, I love his #ork. =ove it.

HEER: &o may e the roots of the ?rancophelia go ack toD BLECHMAN: Beah, thats interesting, and also to the fact that, #hen I #as a kid, there #as a neigh orhood theater #hich played ?rench films that knocked me out. 6lus the fact #hen I #as a out (: years of age, the Aunior high school gave t#o language courses. "nd this really dates me. One #as =atin and the other #as ?rench, can you elieve itE $he good students #ere given =atin and the students like me #ere given ?rench. &o may e there #as that. But you kno#, I think its kind of ar itrary #here youre orn geographically. I think your temperament lends itself geographically to one culture or another. HEER: <ay e the heyday of a type of "merican ?rancophelia ecause of the #ar and the alliance. "nd the po#er of ?rench culture. Reading people like &artre and then all these "merican artists #ho lived as e'-patriots. $hat sort of has disappeared from the culture. BLECHMAN: Oh, very much so. >o# the ?rench come here. HEER: By the #ay, that school you #ent to, I dont kno# if you kno# this, I elieve that #as Harvey 5urt4mans school as #ell. BLECHMAN: Bes it #as. I #ish I had kno#n Harvey #ell. I kind of regret it. But at the time, I didnt appreciate his stuff ecause I didnt like +ad maga4ine and I didnt like comic ooks. I thought it #as a cultural level elo# me. Its a terri le thing to say, ut I liked Harvey a lot. "nd I didnt kno# his #ork. $heres this #onderful ook that " rams came out #ith. <y first insight into #hat Harvey #as all a out #as #hen I attended his memorial service and "rt &piegelman gave the, I #ouldnt call it a eulogy, ut the D #ell, he talked a out Harvey and I reali4ed, -Oh my Cod, this guy #as a very important artist,. and I didnt kno# it at the time. HEER: 5urt4man is a it of a tragic figure in the sense that he #as often #orking in venues that #ere eneath him. He had this creativity that didnt have an outlet. &o +ad comics #as very good, ut a (+L comic ook full of garish colors, and then later he tried to find a creative outlet I that #as The Jungle )ook I #hich never took off. "nd then he #orked for *layboy, #hich is D you kno#. BLECHMAN: Humbug is a s#ell maga4ine. I really like it. Bou pro a ly kno# the t#o volume series. HEER: Beah. BLECHMAN: %hat a #ork of art that is.

Blechman!s Humbu' co&er

HEER: $hats greatJ the Humbug stuff is really great, and its interesting #ith you that he #as trying to find D to create a genre. $o try to find a venue for his creativity through +ad, through Humbug, and through The Jungle )ook, #hich I think you did far more successfully #ith the Juggler of Our Lady. It seems like there #ere several visual artists of the era #ho #ere trying to do comics, ut not in the comicook form and not in the New Yorker form.

Blechman!s 1"(( #e$ Yor%er co&er echoin' his Humbu' co&er

BLECHMAN: Beah, thats true. I mean, I #as lucky as hell. $he story is that in college I took a course in humor and so for my year-end thesis, I did a ook, ,hy 'ome Fell. I guess it is #hat youd call a graphic narrative. &o #hen I got out of college, I sho#ed the ook around, and one guy #ho had an art studio and #ho did a lot of ook Aackets for Henry Holt said MHey, you should sho# this to Henry HoltE. Henry Holt said, -%ell, #e cant pu lish this sort of thing. I pro a ly said this to get rid of me I - ut if you come up #ith a holiday-themed ook, #ell consider it and look at it.. &o, I #ent ack to my house and called a friend of mine and said -Hey. I Im trying to think of the guys name no# I -6aul, do you kno# any good holiday literatureE. "nd he said, -Beah, theres this medieval legend called M$he !uggler of our =ady,. and he told me a out it. "nd I got the ook the ne't day and that night at my kitchen ta le, I #rote and dre# the #hole damn thing. $hen I rought it to them and they pu lished it. I #as ama4ed. It #as Aust luck. I had to see this art director, luck they decided to get rid of me y giving me a holiday-themed thing, luck that I called my friend 6aul, you kno#. =uck, luck, luck, and ad luck, ad luck, ad luck. Bou kno#E "ll these links in one life. HEER: Beah, its interesting the medieval theme, ecause youd mentioned in one of the ooks #as "le'ander >evsky #as one of your favorite movies in college. I had thought that that might e one of the inspirations, ut o viously, I guess not.

BLECHMAN: >o, no, no. >ot eing cra4y a out movies, ut #ho the hell isnt cra4y a out moviesE %ho #asnt and #ho isntE I mean, its the maAor art form, isnt itE HEER: <ay e #e can also talk a it a out the animated film that came out of the ookE Because I #as talking to an animation historian, <ike Barrier and he made an interesting claim, #hich is that even though its done y $errytoon and Cene Deitch #as D BLECHMAN: $he director. HEER: He said that it looks more like a Blechman movie than a $errytoon movie. BLECHMAN: %ell, since it #as ased on my ook and since I #as the so-called consulting director, ho# could it not e mineE It #as and it #asnt. I mean, I didnt like the crayon techniHue and other than that, that othered me. I thought it #as an O5 film. Its a good film. But, it #as done not y Cene Deitch, he #as kind of the supervising director. It #as done y a guy called "l 5ou4el and he #as a good filmmaker, good art director. But, you kno#, they also had ?eiffer on staff and did one of his stories. He #as a storyteller at the time, in the story department D HEER: Beah, +unroe, #asnt itE BLECHMAN: Ralph Bakshi #as there at the same time. "nd you have to remem er, that $errytoons #as ought y 1B& and 1B& hired Cene Deitch. Cene Deitch and I #orked together in an animation studio called &tory Board #ith !ohn Hu ley I an ill-fated enterprise. <y very first Ao ever #as eing a story oard artist for !ohn Hu ley, and incidentally, in todays Times, there #as a revie# of Finians 'ainbow. Did you kno# that !ohn Hu ley had done a story oard and financing for Finians 'ainbowE Had scored it #ith 7lla ?it4gerald and ?rank &inatraE It #as all set to move, ut there #as a guy called &enator <c1arthy #ho #as on his patriotic, or unpatriotic rampage and the minute the investors learned !ohn Hu ley #as a radical, #ithdre# the funds. $ragic. It might have een a great film. It had all the ingredients. Kery sad. HEER: $hat story reminds me of something that occurred to me ack #hen #hile I #as reading theTalking Lines ook and may e also a little it of !ear James, #hich is that you seem fascinated y stories of fate. $hats the recurring theme in your #ork. Coing ack to even The Juggler of our Lady, its a out a life of someone #hose life is th#arted until he succeeed. $hat seems like the issue you come ack to. BLECHMAN: "lthough, like ho# many artists, he didnt do anything ut. "nd its not as if he didnt #ant to do everything, ut the only thing he could do #as Auggle. "nd I think a lot of artists can only do art#ork #here they speak to the #orld through their art. &o, tomorro# #hen &eth and I are intervie#ed on stage, #e damn #ell etter speak -Heer laughs. #ith more than our art. I have a story in my !ear James a out $.&. 7liot, #ho #as called -dull, dull, dull oth in#ardly and out#ardly.. He pro a ly #as. $he guy #as pro a ly a misfit I a social misfit, #hich pro a ly reinforced his art#ork a lot. But, yeah, I suppose fate. =ike any freelancer, I had a lot of tri ulations, a lot of trials. HEER: &ure, sure. BLECHMAN: Its Aust the nature of it, if youre a freelancer, you kno# every no# and then a Ao doesnt come through or something is #hatever, #hatever. ?reelancers live very much on the edge. I

al#ays think of myself as semi-retired ever since I ecame a freelancer at ::. 6eople think Im retired. &o retirement holds no fear for me. Ive een preparing for it for 0+ or 8+ years, so #hat the hellE HEER: In the Na ional *os intervie# you had mentioned that your mom #asnt cra4y a out you ecoming an artist and sort of tried to stop it D BLECHMAN: >o, not really. $he truth of it, I #asnt called y my mother. Beah, ut she pro a ly #anted reassurance that #hat I #as doing #ould earn me some kind of living, thats all. I think thats very normal for parents to e concerned, may not e very normal to make telephone calls to inHuire a out that. >o, its understanda le. One of my sons is studying for his 6hD in philosophy and Im concerned, ut Im not going to call up his college and ask a out his chances of getting a Ao . HEER: $o go ack to The Juggler of Our Lady, thats also one of themes or lessons of the ook. $hat persistence in the face of reAection or lack of success. BLECHMAN: Kery true. HEER: Boure right though, it is natural for parents to #ant their kids to have a normal career #here they can see #hat the re#ards are going to e. "side for your mom, #as your dad also concerned #hen you #ent into this freelance lifeE BLECHMAN: %ell, I #asnt a#are his concern or unconcern. He Aust never talked to me a out it. "nd my father #as pretty cut off. $hank Cod I didnt go into the family usiness, my older rother did and he #as cut do#n y my father viciously. <y father #as, in many #ays, not a nice person. HEER: %hat #as the family usinessE BLECHMAN: Oh, it #as #holesale dry goods. HEER: &o your older rother #ent intoD BLECHMAN: He #ent into the family usiness. But he later ecame a novelist and I think his novels #ere very affected y early life and e'periences #ith my father and e'periences #ith my father and #ith the family. HEER: Beah, that is al#ays a tricky thing. I guess may e youve e'perienced some of it as #ell, like a father and son are in the same usiness, like there is some D
Illustration by Blechman

BLECHMAN: $ension. I "ccept that my son is an art director for The New York Times and theres a solutely no tension #hatsoever e'cept he sometimes dismisses me as a designer, #hen I am a damn good designer FHeer laughsG, ut thats kind of his take. &o pro a ly, he #ould like to have his o#n territory, thank you. I dont care, I have plenty of other stuff to do. Im not necessarily going to do design #ork or e kno#n as a designer. But e that as it may D no, my relationship #ith my son is highly compati le and collegial. HEER: I guess in some #ays, you #ere lucky for not eing the oldest son. BLECHMAN: Its true. HEER: Bour older rother took the flack. BLECHMAN: %ell, also, my older rother #as gay. "nd at a time #hen it #as very difficult to e that. I could see that there #as a tremendous resentment. >ot that it #as articulated y either him or my parents, ut I think that it #as kno#n ut there #as this terri le tension, no dou t that resulted in the antagonism. "nd, #ell, so e it. <y rother #as far eyond the family usiness. %hich later ecame shoes, my father #as a shoe manufacturer. Boure really getting an earful of the Blechman family history. HEER: Its interesting ecause you did mention in Talking Lines some of the stuff a out your mother and your father. I thought a little it a out it ecause there are these sort of family themes in some of the stories. $heres this theme of like fate the sort of lives people make for themselves and %hat sort of lives they have to make #ith their families. I think that comes through in the =eonard %oolf story and theres &hakespeares sister D BLECHMAN: "nd &hakespeare and also &hakespeares father. Remem er in Hamle , he #as al#ays giving his son advice. "nd I #onder if I you have to remem er that &hakespeares father #as a council mem er and pro a ly one #ho really #anted a shield of arms. $here may have een some type of conflict et#een father and son there. Its funny that 6olonius is mocked in Hamlet. Its very possi le that Hamlet #as a stand-in for &hakespeares father. HEER: Its very speculative, ut I think theres a lot of that parental-son tension in &hakespeare. /ing Lear as #ell as Hamle . 7ven the 5afka story. 5afka famously had a trou led relationship #ith his dad. BLECHMAN: I love doing that one. I did that one for =eanne. &he had a ook, I cant remem er the name of it. It #as kind of a self-pu lished ook that #as Nero'ed, ut eautifully designed. Ho# could it not e eautifully designed #hen she does itE HEER: %as that for !@ = or #as that something elseE BLECHMAN: >o, I cannot remem er the name of the ook. HEER: $hats fine. BLECHMAN: >o#, I cant remem er it. But it #as a eautiful little ook, eautiful little ook. "nd thats #here the 5afka story first appeared. "nd I mention it in the ook, I think.

HEER: I didnt #ant to pry to much into your family D BLECHMAN: Oh, its O5. $he ghosts arent going to haunt either of us. HEER: Did your rother marryE Bour older rotherE BLECHMAN: >o, no. HEER: &o yeah, they might have een a#are. "nd may e, in that era, for a man to have a gay son. He might #ant to erate him, or try to reform him, or change him. BLECHMAN: Beah, yeah. I dont think so. I think they never ackno#ledged it, ut they #ere a#are of it. Once I told my mother and father, they #ere shocked that I #ould tell them this. I figured, #ell, you kno# it, #hat am I telling you thats ne#E "nd I didnt do it in terms of hostility, I Aust said Mhey, hes got londe hair and lue eyes, cant you see itE Bou kno#, that kind of thing. Occasionally, they #ould ask me Mcant you match him up #ith a girlE %ell, it #ouldnt do very much good. HEER: Its one of these things #here people #ill kno#, ut dont actually say it. I think people used to e like that a out cancer. Bou kno# someone #ho has cancer, ut to actually say the #ord is to reak some sort of ta oo. &o, in terms of your am ition, you mentioned several times that your dream #as to make an animated feature. %here did that come fromE I mean, o viously you had a love of movies. Did that come a out ecause of the first animated filmE BLECHMAN: >o, #hen I #as in college, I think in ()29, I thought to myself -the future art from is animation.. Ho# I came across that, I have no idea and I #as #rong. It hasnt een true yet. "lthough I have to say that I ought to e seeing 0loudy wi h a 0han&e of +ea balls. 7'cept that Im not very sympathetic to *D animation, I like the :D kind, ut so e it. >o, I dont think that it has yet reached its prime. I think it #ill eventually happen, so many of the graphic novels that #e are enAoying #ill one day e, I hope, turned into animated films. I hope y the right film makers. HEER: I think the one thats really done this I have you seen *erse%olisE BLECHMAN: Beah, it #as a good film. I thought the ook #as etter than the film, ut that #as of course, ecause I didnt like the opening. HEER: %ell, its interesting a out animation not having lived up to its potential, ecause you do get a sense, going ack to %insor <c1ay that practitioners of animation have these sort of grand dreams for it, ut that its een an art form thats really een constrained y money and y other factors. BLECHMAN: %ell, I find that a lot of the constraint comes from the graphic novelists, themselves. I dont kno# ho# many times Ive asked &eth and "rt &piegelman. "nd yeah, every no# and then Id speak to these guys and if they #ant to have you #ork it into a film, they seem not to e interested. "nd I can understand it ecause their #ork is so self-contained and perfect as a #ritten form, and they al#ays think -Hey, its going to e ruined,. ut I think if they #ork #ith the right people it can e enhanced. HEER: In terms of your career, #as it the early 8+s #hen you #ere involved #ith advertising and doing those animated cartoonsE

BLECHMAN: Beah, M8+s, 9+s. HEER: Beah, starting in the 8+s, yeah. BLECHMAN: Beah, ut remem er my first Ao #as a story oard artist at an animation studio in ()0* and I #orked #ith Cene Deitch. &o, its not as if I am unfamiliar #ith animation even though nothing of mine #as ever animated and my style of art #as never used. It #as al#ays shipped out to, I #ouldnt even say other artists, I #ould Aust say artists. I dont think I #as ever considered an artist. I #as a story man, #ho #ould visuali4e these things. "nd I dont think all that #ell, I didnt kno# #hat the hell film #as all a out. It really took me a long time to learn that I had to make films. HEER: %hat do you think of the #hole sort of, I guess #ould it e the $errytoons or O6" revolution in animation in the 0+s I early 0+sE BLECHMAN: %ell, the O6" did some e'traordinary things. I mean havent seen all that many O6" things, ut the $hur ers, the Bemelmans are first rate ecause they manage to eautifully maintain the style of the original. But then they got a little pretentious #ith the $ell-$ale Heart. $heyre pro a ly selfcontained, they had to e more high- ro#. "nd I found that pretentious. I like +agoo a lot. I guess it al#ays othered me that they never #ent into feature filmmaking, ut that might have een a proAection on my part ecause I #anted to do it. I think I had a hard time ecause of the <c1arthy period, you kno#, one of the principles #as a guy called FDavid Hil ermanG and he #as considered leftist, so they may have had pro lems during the <c1arthy period. HEER: Bour career started I0* is right #hen <c1arthy #as running high. BLECHMAN: I guess so, 0:. HEER: >o, I think he #as, in 0*, very much a po#erhouse. I dont think it #as until 02 or 00 that he #as censured y the &enate. In any case he certainly had a lot of impact. Bou #ould have een seeing <c1arthyism having an impact around you. Bou mentioned a couple of times. BLECHMAN: Beah, sure. I mean I kne# of people #ho #ere crippled. "t that time I didnt kno# Hu leys proAect. It #as only many years later that I learned a out it. "nd no#, #ho kno#sE <ay e that #ouldnt have een a good film. But I think it #ould have een. I remem er though, in ()0*, seeing Hu leys films and eing a#are that his humorous films #ere his est films. His other films struck me as eing a little pretentious. It didnt other me. I thought that humor #as a vehicle in #hich he did his est stuff. HEER: $he reason I #as sort of ringing up <c1arthyism #as, it seems to me like a lot of artists that came from a radical or critical stance started to do allegorical #ork in the 0+s and 8+s to get around that. In some #ays Dr. &euss might fall into that, or <aurice &endak. =ike a lot of people D BLECHMAN: >o, <aurice, he did #hat he #anted to do period. ?rankly, Im Aealous as hell that today, #alking do#n the street and on the one side I see 0loudy ,i h a 0han&e of +ea balls #hich is done y a very dear friend of mine, Ron Barrett. "nd across the street, ,here he ,ild Things 1re, #hich #as done y, Ill tell you, a very dear friend of mine, <aurice &endak. "nd here I am, in the middle, and Ive never een a le to fulfill my dream. Its very painful.

HEER: %ell, #hy #ould you say thatE In terms of the films that you have done, do you feel that like a short film is inferior y nature to a feature filmE BLECHMAN: Beah. I think that a short story is inferior to a novel. Its Aust that I #ant to do something on the ig screen. "nd I #ant to do something that #as richer than a shorter cartoon can possi le encompass, if you get my language. Ive had so many proAects, and none of them have ever come through. I think that may e Im a slo# uilder. I dont think Ive pushed hard enough. I dont think I contact people I kno# #ith enough conviction. <ay e I feel -ho# can I ask people for so much money #hen I dont kno# that its going to return the money, that it #ould e a great film, or if it #ill e a ad film that #ill make any money.. I feel funny asking people, that I kno# are #ealthy-enough people, ut I feel funny asking them or contacting them. &o thats not good.

The )oster *or Blechman!s 1+hour animate, *ilm, The -ol,iers Tale, broa,cast on .B- in 1"/0

HEER: $his issue of not having made a feature film, or a feature animated film, it comes up a couple of times, and Im not sure if I #ould agree that a novel is necessarily superior to a short story. I think a story like !ames !oyces The !ead and compare it to someone #ith many novels, like &tephen 5ing, #hich are inferior. BLECHMAN: It does seem a little it funny there. Boure a solutely right. Its Aust that you can develop so much #ith a feature. I mean part of it is D #ell Im a little concerned a out my age. Im full of energy and ideas ut Im going to e 3+ years old. %ho kno#s that if a feature ever gets launched Ill have the stamina for it. I pro a ly #ill. $heres al#ays this fear that #hen youre undertaking anything large, you kno#, can I do itE >o matter #hat the hell it is. It doesnt necessarily have to e in the artistic field. But so e it, Ill e all right.

HEER: In terms of the stuff that you have done, is it also an issue of television versus the ig screenE BLECHMAN: Beah, it is. $elevision is one-time only, good ye. Or a fe# times only, thats it. I guess I am cra4y-in-love #ith film. I suppose its as simple as that D #ell #ell see #hat happens. I mean, Ive got a lot of proAects still out there and some might happen. One of them for e'ample is &empeP and I have een in contact #ith one another a out doing a feature ased on one of his ooks. It #ould e in his style. Ill direct the damn thing I story oard it. But he may not agree to it ecause Im taking his ook and made the changes necessary to adapt it to film medium. "nd he may feel -Hey #ait a minute, thats not my ook.. %ell, it is and it isnt, its a film, ased on your ook. He might e Huite difficult #ith these things. On the other hand, he may say, -Beah, sure, fine, go ahead.. I #ould like to do it ecause I like the story Ive made out of his ook, I think Ive enlarged it. I put a lot of myself into it, so I think that, hey, its a dou le ill in the form of a single film. I like that phrase. HEER: FLaughs(G -Dou le ill in the form of a single film,. it is nice. One thing that came through in!ear James is this issue of eing a commercial artist and #hether thats inferior to eing a fine artist and #hether youre al#ays #orking in the service of someone else. I think that actually comes through in the stories as #ell in Talking Lines. Including the story of the guy that sells the gun. Its like eing a hired gun. BLECHMAN: Beah, for e'ample, I love getting commercials. $hey pay very #ell, and I still have a lot of ills to pay. I really need to do commercials. But right no# a client, Im told y an agent, is here in $oronto. &o I stepped into the studio and asked #hats happening #ith this particular proAect. I #as told that the advertising agency has done a story oard or an animatic and is eing tested. $hen it comes to me, and so Im going to have to struggle to make the damn thing #ork. %hat of course they should do, ut this never happens, isQ me, I should do the story oard and the animatic. $hats #hat should e tested. But forget it. $hey naturally #ould go to staff to do it. $hey have these people on staff, so that they #ork for their pay. But its a ack#ards thing. I have to #ork like hell to see if I can make something entertaining out of it. But, it could e a piece of Aunk Im given, so Ill do a piece of Aunk. 7ntertaining Aunk. Bou kno#, I have to earn a living. HEER: &ure, of course. %e all do. But it seems like in your career, in advertising, youve done this serious alancing act of #orking #ithin the constraints of #hat a client #ants, ut then also doing so in your o#n voice. I think the !ear James ook theres that add for Look maga4ine #hich is not a maga4ine youre cra4y a out R its not an assignment youre cra4y a out. But you did something very inventive that I think only you could have done. BLECHMAN: $hats true, I dont kno# a out the -only I could have done.. But in a #ay, I dont give a damn a out advertising. Im free to do something thats playful. I think the state of play is essential for the production of any good art. &o I have fun. &o I al#ays push to the limit. %hich is very funny, ecause Im a very conventional guy. I #atched a very interesting film t#o days ago. It #as a documentary on the acidification of the ocean and one chemist took sparkling #ater and put a tooth in it and after a fe# days sho#ed the tooth. "nd it #as all roken up in the car onated #ater. "nd so the point is that theres a lot of ad shit in car onated #ater. FHeer laughs(G Ho# a out thatE HEER: Kery distressing.

BLECHMAN: Kery distressing, ut here #e are drinking car onated #ater. Better #e should destroy our livers #ith #ine.

A )rint *or the literary 1ournal -tory, by Blechman