Exhibits43 48

Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-9 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 1 of 122
EXHIBIT 43
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS
WESTERN DIVISION
TERRY HOBBS, §
Plaintiff, §
§
v. §
§ CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM
NATALIE PASDAR, et aI., §
Defendants. §
DECLARATION OF JO LYNN MCCAUGHEY
I, Jo Lynn McCaughey, declare as follows:
1. "My name is Jo Lynn McCaughey. I am over the age of21 and competent to give
this declaration.
2. All of the information set forth herein is within my personal knowledge and is
true and correct.
3. On May 6, 1993, the bodies of Steven Branch (who was nicknamed "Stevie"),
Christopher Byers and Michael Moore, were discovered in the Robin Hood Hills
area of West Memphis, Arkansas. The boys had been murdered.
4. I am the sister of Pam Hobbs ("Pam"). Pam is the mother of Stevie. At the time
of the murders, Pam was married to Terry Hobbs ("Terry"). I have known Terry
throughout his marriage to Pam (from the mid-1980s to 2004) up to the present.
5. The press and public have been very inquisitive about the murders of the boys and
the subsequent trial of three teenagers for the murders. The teenagers who were
tried and convicted of the murders have been called the "West Memphis 3."
News organizations from allover the world have covered the story of the
murders, the trials, the West Memphis 3, the families of the victims, and the effect
the murders and whole ordeal has had on the families.
6. Soon after the murders, the national television show America's Most Wanted did a
story on the murders of Stevie, Christopher and Michael. I have seen statements
by the West Memphis Police Department that after the show aired they received a
great number of phone calls and leads on the case.
7. The Geraldo Show, another national television show, also did a show on the
murders, the victims, the families of the victims, and the West Memphis 3. Both
Pam and Terry were on this episode of The Geraldo Show in 1994. Attached here
to as Exhibit 1 is a true and correct copy of the transcript of that show.
PAGEl
DECLARATION OF Jo LYNN MCCAUGHEY.DOCIUNKNOWN
8. My family has received, and Pam and Terry in particular have received, a huge
volume of letters and cards from people allover the world expressing their
sympathy and interest in the case. Even Bill Clinton, the president of the United
States, sent Pam and Terry a letter expressing his sympathy over their loss. We
have also been contacted for interviews by countless news organizations,
magazines and other media outlets from all over the world. Numerous websites
including TV and newspaper sites, have stories on the events, on Pam and Terry
and the other parents, on the victims, on the West Memphis 3, on the trials and on
theories of the case.
9. I know Terry has been repeatedly contacted by the media, and he has willingly
appeared on television and given interviews to the media to discuss the murders,
his whereabouts on May 5 and 6, 1993, the trials of the West Memphis 3 and the
effect of those events on him and his family. The press has always been
interested in Terry as it relates to the case, the murders, the events, the trials and
the families, and Terry has willingly talked to press and the public many times
about the events.
10. The press and public interest in the victims, the victims' families, the West
Memphis 3, the trials, and the events surrounding the murders has continued from
1993 to the present.
11. The cable network HBO showed two documentaries about the Murders and the
trials, called Paradise Lost, Parts I and II. Those documentaries received a lot of
attention and press, and made the murders, trials, victims and victims' families
even more well known.
12. In 2006, Terry and Pam entered into a deal with Dimension Films to sell their
story and Stevie's story to Dimension Films. It is my understanding that
Dimension Films bought those rights so they could make a movie about Stevie,
Pam and Terry, the murders, the West Memphis 3 and the trials. The agreement
with Dimension Films also gave Dimension Films permission to use information
from any book that Terry or Pam wrote. Terry and Pam each got $12,500 for
signing the agreement. Representatives of Dimension Films interviewed Terry
and Pam to get background for the movie. Attached as Exhibits 2 and 3 are true
and correct copies of the transcripts of the interviews that Dimension Films did
with Pam and Terry. I know about the contract, the rights, the money and the
interviews because Terry and Pam each told me about them.
13. The public's interest in the events related to the murders went way up in 2007,
when the defense team for Damien Echols filed a request for release of Damien
based on new evidence. The new evidence included evidence that DNA from one
hair that had been found in the ligature binding one of the victims was consistent
with the hair of Terry and that DNA from another hair found at the murder scene
was consistent with the hair of Terry's friend, David Jacoby.
PAGE 2
14. Other new evidence was provided by me. I was at Pam and Terry's house on
May 6, 1993. I personally saw Terry wash clothes, bed linens and curtains at an
odd hour. It was very strange to me that he would do all of that laundry at such a
horrible time. It was also strange that he was not just washing the dirty laundry,
but was also taking clothes out of the dresser drawers and washing those, too. It
was my opinion that there was no other reason or pressing need that I am aware of
for Terry to do that laundry at that time other than to hide evidence of the crimes.
15. Also in 2003, I was with Pam when we found numerous knives in Terry's
nightstand. I showed the knives to my father, Jackie Hicks, Sr. and he recognized
one of the knives as a pocketknife he had given to Stevie that Stevie always had
with him. Pam had been surprised that the knife was not found with Stevie's
body. When I showed the knife to my father and told him that Terry had it, my
father was devastated. I was again immediately concerned that Terry was
somehow involved in the murders.
16. Terry also made comments about the murders that made me uncomfortable and
made me question his involvement. In 2003 or 2004, Terry asked me if I felt like
he had murdered Stevie. I asked him why he was questioning me like that. He
said he wanted to know. I told him that if he asked me then I was going to tell
him what I truly felt. I told him I believed he was involved in Stevie's murder
either directly or indirectly. He told me that hurt his feelings. Then we were
talking about whether Christopher Byers had been mutilated, and Terry said the
pathologist had said the cut was so precise that if it wasn't done by a surgeon
perhaps it was done by a jeweler. My husband is a jeweler, so I said that theory
did not quite fit. I looked at him, and Terry then said, something like, "You know
I've got experience from working in a slaughterhouse, don't you?"
17. In May of 2007, investigators for the West Memphis 3 interviewed me and I told
them about the laundry, the knife and other concerns I had about Terry.
18. On or about June 19,2007 I met with the West Memphis Police Department for a
formal interview about my concerns about Terry and whether he was involved in
the murder of Stevie and the other little boys. I believe that my interview has
been public and available for people and the press to access since that time. A
true and copy of that interview is attached hereto as Exhibit 4.
19. I told the West Memphis Police Department on or about June 19, 2007 about my
concerns and suspicions about Terry Hobbs and whether he was involved in the
murder of Stevie and the other little boys.
20. In July and August of 2007, Pam gave interviews to the press and in those
interviews she stated that she believed that Terry was involved in the murders.
Also in those interviews, Pam discussed the fact that Terry waited until 9 p.m. to
tell her that Stevie was missing, the discovery of the pocketknife in Terry's
things, and the chronology of events on May 5, 1993.
PAGE 3
21. Also in June of 2007, the West Memphis police interviewed Terry. The West
Memphis Police Department made that interview of Terry available to the public
and press. There were many newspaper reports following Terry's interview which
discuss the fact that the West Memphis police had interviewed Terry.
Additionally, the video of the interview of Terry was posted on the Internet and
can be easily located by doing a Google search of Terry Hobbs and the West
Memphis Police.
22. In the 2007 police interview, Terry claims he and Pam saw a suspicious black
man on May 6, 1993. At no time since the murders have Terry or Pam ever
mentioned to me seeing a black man on May 5 or May 6, 1993.
23. In October 2007, I gave an interview to the press in which I stated, "Terry Hobbs
had the motive. Terry Hobbs is the one suspected of murder and the wounds that
were inflicted on my nephew where turtles bit his face. No knives and no
weapons were used."
24. In sum, I have informed Terry, I have informed the newspapers (in October of
2007), I have informed the West Memphis 3 investigators (in May of 2007) and I
informed the West Memphis Police Department (in June of 2007) that I believe
that it is possible that Terry was involved in the murders of Stevie and the other
little boys.
25. Damien Echols' lawyers and the West Memphis 3 spread the word out in the
press and the news about this new evidence - the DNA, the laundry, the knife,
and the fact that the police had interviewed Terry among other things - and about
their filing to get Damien Echols out of prison or a new trial. Echols' defense
team held a big press conference in late October of 2007, on the new evidence and
the filing and it was covered by press from allover the country.
26. Many newspapers carried the story of the new evidence, of the police interviews
of Terry, of Damien Echols' court filing, of the DNA findings, and of the
suspicions of whether Terry was involved in the murders. All of the new
evidence and Echols' filing, starting in July of 2007, caused an intense new wave
of publicity on the murders, the trials, the West Memphis 3, and, of course, Terry
Hobbs.
27. My family and I personally witnessed all this attention and press because I saw it,
and we got requests for interviews from the press, news organizations and others
regarding the new evidence and the filing.
28. Starting in approximately July 2007, Terry was even more in the spotlight than
before because he was so involved in the new evidence - the DNA which was
consistent with him and his friend, his possession of Stevie's prized knife, doing
the laundry at odd hours and being interviewed by the West Memphis police.
29. Terry hired a spokesman to talk to the press. The spokesperson gave interviews
to a number of news organizations and willingly talked to them about Terry and
PAGE 4
, ' Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-9 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 6 of 122
the murders. Numerous articles ran regarding his spokesperson's conversations

with the press in which he addressed Terry's possible involvement in the murders
based on the new evidence and on the Damien Echols' filing and on the
information put forward by the Echols team. The spokesman was Ross Sampson.
Ross Sampson was the entertainment lawyer that negotiated an agreement in
which Terry and Pam sold the rights to their story to Dimension Films.
30. Also around that time, Terry gave interviews to media where he himself talked
about the new evidence and whether he was involved in the murders. I saw and
read many of these articles, and Terry said that the West Memphis 3 defense team
had ruined his reputation by bringing forward all of the new evidence. On many
occasions prior to July 2007, Terry has told many people that my family has
ruined his reputation because we believe he was involved in the murders. I've
also seen statements from Terry where he says the West Memphis 3 defense team
has ruined his reputation and life.
31. I have a copy of a book handwritten by Terry Hobbs which I found in some of
Pam's things. I read it. It is about the murders, the events, the trials, his
whereabouts on the night in question and how he has been affected by all the
events. The book is strange in that Terry always refers to Stevie as "the boy," not
by name.
32. Terry has very bad morals. He has behaved very badly to his family and he is a
mean person. Terry has a very bad reputation in the community. Some of the
reasons that I think so little of Terry Hobbs' reputation and moral character are
listed below.
33. Terry has repeatedly sexually molested his daughter, Amanda. Not long before
Stevie's death, when Amanda was 4 years old, Amanda told me that Terry had put
his fmger into her "booty."
34. I told Pam what Amanda had told me. Pam took Amanda to the hospital and the
doctor confirmed that there had been penetration.
35. Throughout the years, Amanda has repeatedly accused Terry of sexual abuse. In
approximately 2002, Amanda told me that Terry had grabbed her breasts. On one
occasion Amanda called me at 3 AM and asked me to come and get her in Paris,
Tennessee and take her away from Terry. She refused to go back home to Terry. I
told her that I was 2 hours away and thilt we should get her mom, Pam, to go and
get her. She said okay, and that she wanted me to meet her and Pam halfway. So
Pam went and got Amanda and I met them halfway. Amanda came with me to
Blytheville and refused to go back to Terry in Memphis. I called the Tennessee
government and told them that Amanda had told me that Terry had sexually
molested her. Tennessee sent an agency to investigate the matter. They
interviewed Amanda and made a report.
PAGE 5
36. Terry is also a known drug user. Pam ultimately decided to leave Terry and move
from Memphis to Blytheville, Arkansas. Terry tried to take Stevie's things from
Pam. I had moved to a bigger house so Pam and Amanda could stay with me and
my husband. I went to Memphis with Pam to pack her things. We took the police
with us so Terry could not hurt anyone. When we got there, Terry had taken all
of Stevie's belongings and locked them up in the trunk of his car. He lied to the
police and told the police that he did not have Stevie's belongings. I told the
police that Stevie's belongings were probably in the trunk of his car. The police
asked Terry to go open up the trunk of his car. Before we could get out to the car,
Amanda had pulled out Terry's drug paraphernalia from where he hid it and
showed it to the police. The police made Terry open the trunk of his car, and
when he did, he could see that all of Stevie's things were in the trunk. The police
then arrested Terry. I know that Terry has been involved in drugs. He has used
marijuana, cocaine and crystal methamphetamine.
37. Later, when Amanda was older, she again told me that Terry had sexually abused
her and that he was physically abusive to her when she was pregnant. She said
that Terry slammed her into a sink, causing the loss of the pregnancy.
38. I am aware that Terry had molested a neighbor of his many years earlier; the
neighbor's name was Mildred French, and while Mildred was in the shower Terry
broke in, went in her bathroom, and grabbed her breasts.
39. Terry, I believe, physically abused his wife, Pam, and he has shot my brother with
a gun, which ultimately resulted in my brother's death. In 1997, Terry and Pam
had an argument in which Terry had hit Pam in the face and Pam called the family
to come help her. My brother, Jackie Hicks, Jr., got into a fight with Terry when
they got to Pam's house (Terry was supposed to have left) and Terry shot my
brother in the abdomen in front of my parents. My brother was seriously injured,
and had to have a large number of surgeries as a result. My brother died in
approximately February of 2006 from complications with one of those surgeries.
40. Terry is a violent individual who is always armed. Terry always had guns around.
Also, it seemed like he traded guns with other people a lot. In fact, it was very
strange, but Terry would frequently obtain a gun, take it somewhere and later, he
wouldn't have the old gun, but he would have a new, different gun.
41. Terry has squandered the charity the public gave to Stevie's family. People from
all over the country have sent money and gifts to Pam and Terry to help them take
care of their family in the time of crisis. The money that has come in has been
squandered by Terry. Terry has literally used thousands of dollars given by
sympathetic people for his own interests.
42. Terry physically abused Stevie when they were alone. Terry had a bad
relationship with Stevie. He would punish Stevie by hitting him with a belt until
he drew blood. Terry would also punish Stevie by locking him in a closet. One
time when Stevie was staying with my parents and he was potty training, he had a
PAGE 6
DECLARATION OF Jo LYNN McCAUGHEY.DOCIUNKNOWN
...~ \ ~ r
little bit of an accident. He got terrified and went and hid. My mother, Marie
Hicks, and I looked everywhere and could not fmd Stevie until we went in my
mother's room. She had a box of clothes in her closet and his foot fell out of the
box. When we pulled Stevie out he was hot and sweaty and we asked him what
was wrong. Stevie siad "Daddy Terry's going to whip me, he's going to whip
me." Stevie was terrified.
43. Terry did not act responsibly following Stevie's death. Terry did not seem to
mourn the loss of Stevie. Instead he seemed to immediately move on. He left my
sister Pam for approximately 2 weeks and moved away with another woman.
44. Terry has stolen from his own family. Terry's family had a family business
where they owned restaurants. Terry used to work for the family business, but his
father kicked him out of the business because he caught Terry stealing money
from the business.
45. My family has taken action because of Terry's bad reputation. My family had
Terry's name removed from the gravestone at Stevie's grave. We did this based
on Terry's character and reputation. We did not want Terry Hobbs associated with
the memory of Stevie because of all the horrible things he has done to my family,
and the horrible way that he treated Stevie.
46. Terry has promised Pam that if he wins this case he will pay her $50,000
immediately. He has told her that he plans to make $250 million from winning
this case."
I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct and that this
declaration was executed in Mississippi County, Arkansas.
Dated: Lff!~ c20 / ~dO '1
PAGE 7
DECLARATION OF Jo LYNN MCCAUGHEy.DOCIUNKNOWN
'UvlCtlUV 1J1lVVV ""-6-'" "-".... - ,
Copyright 1994 Investigative News Group

GERALD0 -- m
)(
SHOW: GERALDO (4:00 PM ET) ::t
m
=i
March 16, 1994, Wednesday 2:50PM
LENGTH: 7258 words
HEADLINE: KlDS WHO KILL: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT? PAM AND TERRY HOBBS, PARENTS OF MURDERED
ARKANSAS CHILD; JESSIE MISSKELLY, FATHER OF CONVICTED TEEN MURDERER; DR. HERBERT NIEBURG; JACK LEVIN;
JACK ROPER; MARCOS QUINONES; ADOLESCENT SATANISM
ANCHORS: Geraldo Rivera
BODY:
HOST: Geraldo Rivera
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Martin M. Bennan
KIDS WHO KILL: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT?
GERALD a RIVERA: art May 5th, 1993, three eight-year-old boys were brutally murdered in a small town in eastern Arkansas. There is
evidence the killings may have been part of a Satanic ritual. But much about this awful case remains unclear. Today, we'll try to solve the
remaining puzzle with the cooperation of experts and family members from both the young victims' side and the side of the teen-aged
accused.
Pam and Terry are the parents of Stevie Hobbs; Stevie, one of the eight-year-old boys brutally murdered. Jackie is the victim's grandfather. I
lmow it's difficult, Pam, but can you describe the wounds on Stevie's body?
Mrs. PAM HOBBS (Son Murdered By Alleged Satanic Teens): The left side of his face was cut and mutilated. He was tied hand and foot...
(Photo of Steven Hicks)
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~ ....... s. HOBBS: (Voiceover) ...and he had injuries to his head whelc they had--his brain had scattered when they hit him.
RIVERA: Essentially, he was beaten to death?
Mrs. I-IOBBS: Mm-hmm.
RIVERA: Tell us your reaction, Terry, when you heard what had happened to your stepson.
Mr. TERRY HOBBS (Stepson Murdered By Alleged Satanic Teens): I don't know. I just--I couldn't believe it. We've been--went into shock--
may be in shock now. And I still can't believe it. We hadn't--it's like a long nightmare that you keep waking--waiting to wake up from. And
we're here in the middle of it. .
RIVERA: Joining us via satellite from West Memphis, Arkansas, is the father of one of the three teen-aged accused. Actually his son has
already been convicted of murdering the three eight-year-olds. This is Jess--Jessie Misskelley Sr. He's joined by some supporters, you can
see, in the background.
Before I talk to that side and this--much more deeply about what happened, you should know that this story of the murders of the three young
boys has taken many bizarre twists and turns. Indeed, new revelations are emerging every single day. Our team visited West Memphis,
Arkansas, to investigate_ Here's the story of the three dead young men.
(Begin investigative report; narration by Geraldo Rivera)
RIVERA: Reminiscing over children's photos brings joy to most families. But in the house of Marie Hicks and her daughter, Pam Hobbs, it is
a painful and torturous event.
(Photograph of Steven Hicks)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) Pam's eight-year-old son, Steven, was sexually molested and brutally murdered...
(Photos of Michael Moore and Christopher Byers)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) ...along with two other eight-year-old boys, Michael Moore and Christopher Byers. It happened in West Memphis,
Arkansas, on May 5th, 1993. Christopher had also been castrated.
(Photos of Jessie Misskelley Jr., Damian Echols, and Jason Baldwin)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) Charged in the brutal murders are three local teen-agers; Jessie Misskelley Jr., 18; Damian Echols, 18; and Jason
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_<dwin, just 16. The parents of one of the murdered boys yellea at Damian on his way to a court appearance.
Unidentified Man #1: Faggot! What you know about the faggots?
RIVERA: Adding to the parents' horrors...
(Newspaper headline reads, "Misskelley Friend Says They Attended Cult Event")
RIVERA: (Voiceover) ...were reports that the killers had participated in devil worship.
(Footage of Jessie Misskelley Jr. in police custody)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) On Februmy 4th, Jessie Misskelley Jr. was found guilty of the murders. He was sentenced to life in prison plus 40
years. The trials of Damian Echols and Jason Baldwin are scheduled for late February.
(The Commercial Appeal newspaper headline reads, "Cult Experts Gave Warning in 1992")
RIVERA: (Voiceover) In June oflast year, 1993, the Memphis Commercial Appeal reported that cult experts had warned West Memphis
officials, back in 1992, that Satanic cult activities were present in the community.
(Photos; Satanic grafitti on wall)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) One of the three defendants told West Memphis police that local cult activities included eating dogs and participating
in sex orgies. Acquaintances of Damian Echols told reporters that Echols customarily wore black, killed cats and worshipped the devil.
(Footage of Damian Echols in police custody)
RIVERA: Stephanie Dollar, a West Memphis resident, said there has long been talk about cult activities in West Memphis.
Ms. STEPHANIE DOLLAR (West Memphis, Arkansas, Resident): Yeah. It's just, I mean, all the talk about it. I mean, the symbols that you
see wrote everywhere--I mean, which it could be just kids writing things. I don't know. I mean--but there's just too much talk about it for it
not to be true.
(Footage of the West Memphis trailer park)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) Jessie Misskelley Jr., like his two co-defendants, lived in a rundown trailer park in the West Memphis area. The teen-
ager's room revealed nothing extraordinary.
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(Interior of Jessie Misskelley Jr.'s bedroom shown)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) Most of the pictures and posters were fairly typical for an 18-year-old boy's room. Although a jury found his son
guilty, Jessie Misskelley Sr. steadfastly professes his son's innocence.
Mr. JESSIE MISSKELLEY Sr. (Son Convicted Of Murder): I've got 15,20 people that saw him out here in this trailer park that day up until
7:30. Then he went to Dysart and he saw the wrestle. There's no way he could have been up there to kill those boys. He was out here in this
trailer park because they have witnesses to prove that he was here. But the police--they say he was not here. They got up there and lied. Jessie
was not in on it because--said he ate the hind leg of a dog? Jessie won't even eat fried chicken. What are you talking about?
RIVERA: Jessie Sr.'s story is supported by 15-year-old Susie Brewer, Jessie Jr.'s girl friend.
Miss SUSIE BREWER (Jessie Junior's Girl Friend): I think they're stupid. I don't think he did it. I just tell him I still love him and we're all
behind him. Damian's weird looking and--and Jason, he's just quiet.
RIVERA: Police believe the murders occurred in a small grove known by the locals as Robin Hood Woods. It's a popular spot for teen-age
beer drinking and parties. Based on police and news reports, we have recreated the boys' final moments.
(Partial re-enactment shown during narration)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) Late afternoon on May 5th, 1993, the boys entered the woods. One was riding a girls' bike, the other a boys' bike, the
third child had a skateboard. It is believed the boys spent some time roaming and playing in the woods. At some point, however, after 6:00
PM, the three children and their assailants met. The following day, May 6th, the police spotted a young boy's sneaker and a Cub Scout hat
floating in a small creek. The bodies of the three boys were found just yards away.
(End investigative report)
RIVERA: Pam, can you tell us what happened that afternoon? What happened to your son? What was he usually doing at that time?
Mrs. HOBBS: After school, Michael had come over and asked could Stevie go to his house and play. At first 1...
RIVERA: Michael Moore, one of the three victims, yeah.
Mrs. HOBBS: Sorry? Yeah. To Michael Moore's house, the other boy. And at first, I told him no. And he kept begging so I went ahead and
told him that he could go, and I gave him a time to be home. I told him to be home by 4:30, that if he wasn't home, he would be grounded.
And I had to go to work that night. And I left for work around 4:55 and he still wasn't at home. So I went on to work and my husband started
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~_..uching for him. And we searched all night and just--it come Up me next day that he was dead.
RIVERA: Who told you that they found his body?
Mrs. HOBBS: My husband and I went to the school to check, to tell them that we hadn't found the boys. And there, a lady said, I heard they
just found three boys.' So we went to the park where they had found them at, and I run up. They already had the police line out and
everything, and I run up, and someone said that it was Stevie, that it was the boys:
RIVERA: Grandpa Jackie, do you believe this was a--a devil-worship cult? Do you believe this was a Satanic organization?--or these boys
were in some way connected? And how do you respond to that?
Mr. JACKIE HICKS (Grandson Murdered By Alleged Satanic Teens): Yes, I definitely believe that it was. At the time of the murders,
Satanic was a world of its own. It--it was something that wasn't even in my mind. But as time progressed and goes on, and we've learned a
little more, studied a little more and went along with it; it all points, from what we've read and studied--yes, it was a Satanic-type murder.
RIVERA: What's your reaction? I know you folks are nervous about being on TV. What's your reaction to what happened to your grandson?
Mr. HICKS: Well he--him and a couple ofthe boys were just beautifullittle boys, a-playing. Those little boys still believed in Santa Claus
and the Easter Bunnies.
(Photo of Steven Hicks)
Mr. HICKS: (Voiceover) They were playing in the woods, called Robin Hood Park where all the neighborhood kids play at. And evidently,
they run up onto something. And those boys were cruelly beaten to death. They were beaten to death. I saw my grandson at the funeral home
before he was tal(en out of a body bag, just like he came back from the coroner. And it was pitiful.
RIVERA: Tell us. Help us understand that. What did they do to him?
Mr. HICKS: What did they do to him? His jaw was completely tore loose from his face. His eye was busted in the socket. His chest and all
was kicked and stomped. His face was kicked and stomped--just pitiful, pitiful. It's something that a decent human being wouldn't even do to
a live dog, let alone a human being.
RIVERA: Did a feeling of rage swell up in you?
Mr. HICKS: Well, naturally, you know, the feeling of rage swollen up, yes, it's--it's swollen up. Yeah, it did.
RIVERA: Did you want to go out and find his murderers yourself?
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Mr. HICKS: Naturally, you know that, too. Yes, I did want to go out and find these murderers myself at the time.
RIVERA: Do you believe that the right teen-ager was convicted?
Mr. HICKS: Yes, I do.

RIVERA: Jessie Misskelley Sr. can you hear me?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yes, sir.
RIVERA: You still, despite the fact that a jury has convicted your son and sentenced him to life plus 40 years, you believe him to be
innocent?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yes, sir, I sure do.
RIVERA: Isn't it a fact that Jessie Misskelley Jr. was a member of one of these Satanic cults?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No, he was not.
RIVERA: He didn't attend meetings?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No, he did not.
RIVERA: There was testimony to that effect at the trial.
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: That's a lie.
RIVERA: Do you think everyone is lying about your son?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yes, I do.
RIVERA: And you believe that he had an alibi?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: I know he did.
RIVERA: Then why did he make a 32-minute confession to the cops?
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Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Because they hounded him, they cussed him, they threatened him. And he just made a statement to get him off his
back.
RIVERA: Terry, you want to say something to Mr. Misskelley Sr.?
Mr. HOBBS: I have a lot to say to that man. But I can--I don't want to talk to him. I don't appreciate the actions of your son. He come out of
your home, out of your raisings. And, no, 1...
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Sir--but my son did not do it.
Mr. HOBBS: He said he did.
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: But he--he's mistaken. He--they made him say that.
Mr. HOBBS: Hehad a chance to tell the whole world he didn't do it. And he didn't.
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: What did he say?
Mr. HOBBS: He didn't.
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: We tried.
Mr. HOBBS: He didn't. He had a chance.
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Well, he tried, but they wouldn't let him.
RIVERA: Paul Morrison is a television reporter who got so close to this case that he became almost obsessed with it; so much so that he was
forced to quit his job in a Memphis television station. -
Paul, what about the Satanic angle here? Were these boys ritually slaughtered?
Mr. PAUL MORRISON (TV Reporter Fired For Obsession With Satanic Case): So far, we've heard nothing from the police certainly. They
did not establish motive in the killings. As you know, you don't need to establish motive for a conviction, but publicly, there's been no
mention that the motive of these killings was sa--a--cult-related.
RIVERA: What else could it have been?
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Mr. MORRISON: I think in--when you look at a case like this, some of the questions that might go through your mind would be child-sexual
abuse or if--ifthe motivator was indeed sexual as opposed to cult-related. 1--1 cannot say for sure it was or it wasn't. I do know this much, as
you've already indicated, I'm convinced there was a cult of some fOmi or fashion alive and well in West Memphis, Arkansas.
RIVERA: Isn't it a fact that aside from the brutal beating that they administered to these three eight-year-olds, that they also castrated one of
the boys?
Mr. MORRISON: Christopher Byers' sexual organs were rather artfully removed. To my lmowledge, they've never been found.
RlVERA: Picture this happening in your town. Three eight-year-old boys, wonderful, innocent, Santa Claus-believing, eight-year-old boys,
brutally beaten to death, hacked and mutilated. Later, three teen-agers arrested, one of them already convicted, the trials of two others to take
place. What impact would it have in your community--particularly if you learned that there was possibly a Satanic cult that these teen-agers
belonged to? WHEN KIDS KILL KIDS: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT? the focus of this edition ofGERALDO.
(Theme music and applause)
(Announcements)
RlVERA: ....KlLL KIDS: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT? I want to go back to West Memphis, Arkansas, back to Jessie Misskelley
Sr., surrounded as you can see by other supporters and family members of the--of the youngster--17 years old at the time of the crime, now 18
years old and sentenced to life plus 40 years.
Mr. Misskelley Sr., we have one of the victims' grandfathers here. He's a man, I think, who knows you.
Jackie, do you want to say something to Jessie?
Mr. HICKS: Yes, Mr. Misskelley, I didn't get a chance to say anything to you after the trial. But what I say--and I'm talking personally to you.
I see a re--repeat--a repeat of a beer-drinking--all I see is--it--what I'm trying to say is it's his raising. I feel sorrier for· him than I do for you.
You've never done nothing for him. And that's all he ever lmew is what he was done. And brother, that's your fault as much as it's his.
(Applause)
RIVERA: Mr. Misskelley, do you want to respond?
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Iv1.l. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No. They can run me down all they want 1.0. But I don't care what they say. Just leave me the hell alone.
RIVERA: But, Mr. Misskelley, isn't it possible, now that your son is convicted, can't you look at this thing a little more objectively?--
convicted after a confession.
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: A confession...
RIVERA: Isn't it possible that he went astray some place?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No.
RIVERA: Something went wrong with your son?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No. He was coerced in making that--station. He was kind of scared. He had the mind of a seven, eight-year-old, and
he was scared. And he told them anything they could--he could think ofto get them off his back.
(Photo of Jessie Misskelley, Jr.)
RIVERA: (Voiceover) And the woman--I believe, Paul, her name was Hutcheson?
Mr. MORRISON: Victoria Hutcheson.
RIVERA: Who--who testified, Jessie, that your son was at one of these cult meetings--at least one?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: She lied.
RIVERA: Why would she lie?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: That I don't lrnow.
RIVERA: Paul, how convincing was her testimony?
Mr. MORRISON: It was rather brief but it--she indicated that she had attended what appeared from the testimony to have been a--a meeting--
a Satanic ritual called an Esbat, which in those terms, is more or less a monthly or regular business meeting.
RIVERA: Jessie, is your son going to testify against the other two boys? Against--what's his name?--Damian and Jason?
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IV.l1'. MISSKELLEY Sr.: That I don't know.
RlVERA: Let me introduce our experts because I want to broaden this beyond West Memphis, to talk more about this whole, very
controversial issue of Satanic cults and devil worship. Whenever this is mentioned in polite society, people like to bury their head under the
pillow and--and refuse to believe that it exists. And very often, reporters, like Paul Morrison, get an awful lot of heat for staying with these
stories. I know when we did our devil worship special, how very controversial that was. But we still stand by that one as well as what you're
hearing today.
OK. Dr. Herbert Nieburg, a man who specializes in adolescent Satanism among many other things. He has been counseling victims and ex-
cult members for years. Jack Roper is one of the nation's leading authors and experts on Satanic cults. Our old friend, Jack Levin, renowned,
certainly well-known professor of criminology at Boston's Northeastern University, a man who says Satanism is used as a cop-out and an
excuse by troubled, violent teen-agers. And finally, a man who knows it from the--from the streets, Marcos Quinones. He's an officer with the
good old NYPD, New York City Police Department. He says that more Satanic murders occur than we know about.
These four experts, joined by our--ou;r bereaved relatives. On both sides, they are saddened. We'll continue this discussion of WHEN KIDS
KILL KIDS: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT; right after this brief intermission.
(Photos of Satanic grafitti)
(Announcements)
RIVERA: WHEN KIDS KILL KIDS: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT? Our specific focus, this horrible triple homicide just west of
Memphis on the Arkansas side of the river. Yes?
Unidentified Man #2: With the cult, I know that there's a history of hallucinogenic use, and was there any such, I guess, tie with that in this
murder?
Mr. MORRISON: During Jessie's trial he indicated, or the--the testimony indicated, that he had had some experience.with drugs. I do not
know the extent of it. It didn't--and the other two, we--we do not know yet because, basically, the case file is sealed.
RIVERA: Jessie? Jessie Sr., was your son a drug user?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No. Not especially. He'smoked a little marijuana every once in awhile.
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Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-9 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 19 of 122 .I,
RIVERA: Dh-huh. Was he a big boozer?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No. Not a big boozer. He dr--he did drink: whiskey though.
RIVERA: Dh-huh.
Unidentified Woman #1: Do you have any more children?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yeah.
RIVERA: Pam?
Mrs. HOBBS: Yes. A little girl.
RIVERA: How old is she?
Mrs. HOBBS: She just turned five.
RIVERA: Does she have any understanding of what happened to her brother?
Mrs. HOBBS: No, she doesn't understand it. She misses her brother but she doesn't understand. She knows he's gone and she says she knows
he's in heaven. But to really understand it, no she don't.
Unidentified Woman #2: Eli. I would like to know what type of person it is that gets involved with cults?
RIVERA: 1--1 don't know. Dr. Nieburg, I want to save you for the bigger question of whether you think: this is Satanic-related. I want to ask
Jack Roper that question. Is there a--is there a typical kid who gets involved?
Mr. JACK ROPER (Satanic Cult Expert): I think you have to look at--just look at the overall view. It can be from all educational
perspectives, from those that are real unintelligent to those that are extremely intelligent--valedictorians: So we have to look at where they're
coming from, their--their--their background of the family, how the family treats them, have they been abused. So there's a lot of factors you
have to consider with each...
RIVERA: One of the defendants stylized himself Damian after the character in "The Omen." It's not his given name, but he calls himself
Damian. Is that an indicator of anything to you?
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(Photo of Damian Echols)
Mr. ROPER: (Voiceover) There's also a well-known church--there's a Satanic organization and the leader ofthat, his AKA is also Damian. I
won't bring up his name.
RIVERA: What's the dagger you're holding?
(Close-up of dagger)
Mr. ROPER: Well, I want to point out that this kind of stuff is available. You can go to warehouses. There are cult warehouses in the country
where you can buy this kind of stuff.
RIVERA: See the skull atop with the rubies? OK. What else?
Mr. ROPER: And also now there are--there are cases, active cases, and--and dismissed cases out there. But this is one case of an individual. I
have his Satanic diary, his book of shadows. And this individual was--sent threatening letters to President Carter. The US Circuit--Secret
Service was involved with this case. I also have another one where an individual, who is in prison right now in Massachusetts, he sent me.a
letter to get some information on Satanism. But he was also, according to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, said here that he was involved
with a decapitation, a killing and a mutilation.
RIVERA: A decap--oh, brother.
Mr. ROPER: Yes.
RIVERA: Let me--let me go to Dr. Nieburg. Does what happened in West Memphis smack of Satanism to you?
Dr. HERBERT NIEBURG (Ph.D., Specializes In Adolescent Satanism): It's a crime that's associated with Satanism. This is not a typical
Satanic crime. Typical Satanic murder, one would expect, is part of a ritual. You would expect a--an altar. You would expect certain kinds of
ritualistic functions to have been performed. You would expect vestments. You would expect lots of other signs. I think this is a very tragic
case, one that's not terribly atypical or unusual. I think this is a murder that's perpetrated by some very disturbed young men. And 1--1 agree
totally with--with Dr. Levin, that--that these cases are where somebody takes up the identity and wants to be known as a Satanist to condone,
to justify what they're doing, which really, antecedes--goes way back before anything about Satan. These are disturbed kids who are
murderers. This was a mens rea, a criminal mind, using Satanism as a--as an excuse.
RIVERA: Jack?
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Mr. JACK LEVIN (Criminology Expert): Yeah, I think that's a very good point. And you don't need Satanism as an excuse. There are plenty
of others. You can blame pornography, you can blame drugs or alcohol or maybe even a bad childhood. But Satanism is particularly easy in
tenns of a justification because it ritualizes. And, you know, even something as hideous as--as rape and murder, can seem wonderful when
you envelope it in this--this mystery of the Satanic ritual. Also ...
RlVERA: I neglected to mention the boys were also--two of the boys were also raped...
Mr. LEVIN: That's right.
RIVERA: ...by these perpetrators.
Mr. LEVIN: And--and--I mean, you know, it's interesting that Satan himself is seen as a--as a powerful figure. And, you know, as Dr.
Nieburg points out, these kids probably were very marginal. They probably weren't getting along very well at home, not doing well at school,
dropouts, spiritually as well as physically, and felt very, very powerless. Maybe 20 years ago, they would have stolen hub caps. But today in
this age of decline of moral responsibility, you know, they'll do a lot worse than that.
RIVERA: Where the hell did they get the idea, though, to do something this brutal?
Mr. LEVIN: You can get the idea in a lot of places nowadays. You can get it in comic books. You can get it by watching television. You can
get it from your friends. ,You can get it from--from attending a meeting of strangers. But I don't think it's the point that Satan per se is the
problem. I think--let me point out, in Clifton, New Jersey, not long ago, three guys--teen-agers--brutally strangled their buddy while they
recited Hail Marys. And--and--and Jeffrey Lundgren killed five people in 1989. He thought he was a prophet. He talked to--he land oflike
had a direct line to God, he thought. He--this was a radical offshoot ofthe Monnon church. It isn't MOlmonism that we blame. And clearly,
we don't blame the Catholic church either. We shouldn't. The point is that religion, and also the occult, can be used for good or evil. In this
case, it's used to justifY something horrific.
RIVERA: Your reaction to the father's alibi? The father saying his son...
Mr. LEVIN: Well, I--you know, I'm going to take issue with everybody here. I have to because, you know, there are a lot of victims of this
brutal kind of multiple murder besides just the three eight-year-old boys. Yeah, I'll tell you who else gets victimized. The family of the--as
you can see--of--of Stevie and the other boys who were brutally murdered. And, you know, sometimes it's also the family of the perpetrator,
who tries to support and protect his youngster. He may know in his heart that his son is guilty, but, you know, he also knows that everybody
will blame him for having created a monster, whether he deserves it or not. So maybe we should be a little bit more tolerant and withhold
judgement unless we understand all of the facts of the case.
Dr. NIEBURG: Jack, that's a point, though, because nobody--what we forget is that you can lead somebody down a path. The ultimate choice
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au...1 decision--the ultimate responsibility for this murder was not 1HS father. This boy chose to do that, regardless of what those other
antecedent causes are.
Mr. LEVIN: Exactly. Let's blame the killers...
Dr. NIEBURG: Exactly.
Mr. LEVIN: ...for the crime.
Mr. NIEBURG: Right.
(Applause)
RIVERA: All right. We have a reporter standing by now in Arkansas, wh0 will give us the latest on what's going on in the case.
Jim Taylor, are you there?
Mr. JIM TAYLOR (KAIT Reporter, Jonesburo, Arkansas: (By Telephone) Yes, I am, Geraldo.
RIVERA: OK. Let me take a break. We'll come to Jim Taylor from KAIT injust a minute.
Stay tuned. An update on the triple homicide, the trial going on right now.
(Announcements)
RIVERA: WHEN KIDS KILL KIDS: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT? Yes?
Unidentified Man #3: I want to know, did the children know who their killers were? Like, were they frien--were the--did the children know
their killers, so, like, they were friendly?
RIVERA: Did Stevie lmow Jessie or Damian or--or the other fellow, Jason?
Mr. HOBBS: Not to my lmowledge, he didn't.
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RIVERA: Now as the case has been reconstructed, Paul, was there a stalking of these particular victims?
Mr. MORRISON: In testimony, the mother of one of the victims told the court that a month or two prior to the killings, that a man dressed in
black had taken a picture of her son. And then during the trial, it was still rather unc1--a little bit unclear, but it was--prosecution indicated that
there had been a photograph, or photographs of the young boys and implied that there was some stalking going on.
RIVERA: Are you there, Jim Taylor?
Mr. TAYLOR: Yes, I am.
RIVERA: From KAIT?
Mr. TAYLOR: Yes, I am.
RIVERA: Well, welcome. What's going on?
Mr. TAYLOR: Today, more jury selection. Five people have been chosen so far. One man and four women. And they're looking for 12
people, plus two alternates. So 14 people have to be chosen. Five have been chosen and more jury selection this afternoon and tomorrow, I'm
sure.
RIVERA: What's the buzz about Jessie Jr. testifying against his two co-defendants?
Mr. TAYLOR: If you--and just give you a moment of time, I can tell you that in Arkansas, the judge in this case appointed a separate attorney
to meet with Jessie Jr. to explain what benefits Jessie could receive...
(Photo of Jessie Misskelley Jr.)
Mr. TAYLOR: (Voiceover) ...for his testimony. That attorney met with Jessie Jr. on Tuesday night, and I do know for a fact that Jessie Sr.
was with Jessie Jr. whenever those discussions were taking place. There is lots of speculation as to what type of year amount Jessie
Misskelley Jr. was offered in exchange for his testimony. But that's a question that I think Mr. Misskelley Sr. could answer, and that's
something that a lot of people in our area would like to lmow. What was the year amount that Jessie Jr. was offered from the prosecution in
exchange for his testimony?
RIVERA: Let me ask Jessie Sr. They attempted, or are attempting, to make a deal with your son to testify against the other two boys who are
accused of this triple homicide. How many years did they say they would take offhis life plus 40-year sentence, in exchange for testimony?
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h ...... MISSKELLEY Sr.: Well, I don't think I should tell you all. 1 uon't think the lawyer would want me to say that.
RIVERA: Is it a substantial reduction in his sentence?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr. : Yes, sir.
RIVERA: So he would be out when?--by his middle adult years?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: That I don't know.
RIVERA: You don't want to say?--a 20-year sentence?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No, it's more than that.
Mr. TAYLOR: Geraldo, I think--Geraldo, can you hear me?
RIVERA: Yes. Go ahead, Jim.
Mr. TAYLOR: I think Mr. Misskelley could give us more insight into what his son was thinking, because he was with his son when the
decision process was going on. And we can get a better understanding of--of Jessie Misskelley Jr., the defendant, if Mr. Misskelley is allowed
to elaborate on what they discussed the other night when the offer was made.
RIVERA: You hear him, Dad? Why don't you tell us? What were they talking about?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Well, they was talking about telling the truth. And that's what he said he was going to do, cause he was not...
Mr. TAYLOR: Mr. Misskelley, if! may ask you, sir, is your son holding out for a better deal?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No, he was not. He said that...
Mr. TAYLOR: Do you think. ..
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: ...that...
Mr. TAYLOR: Do you think your son will change his mind and testify?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: That I don't know. I know one thing. They asked him, up there, ifhe could walk out the door right now, would he get
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Up and testifY, and he said no. He said...
Mr. TAYLOR: Why did he say no?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: He said, because he didn't want to get up there and tell a lie and...
(Photo of Jessie Misskelley Jr.)
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sf.: (Voiceover) ...send somebody to prison, death, if they weren't guilty. He said he don't know if they're guilty or not
because he was not there.
RIVERA: He still maintains he was not there?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yes, sir.
RIVERA: But he's willing to testifY against the--I'm sorry, Grandpa Jackie?
Mr. HICKS: It was proven in the trial that he was there...
Mr. MORRISON: 1--1 think...
Mr. HICKS: ...by his own testimony.
Mr. MORRISON: ...that they--they--they convicted Jessie Misskelley...
Mr. HICKS: That was a coerced testimony.
Mr. MORRISON: ...convicted Jessie Misskelley Jr. based on one thing: that was the confession. There was no physical evidence--none...
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No.
Mr. MORRISON: .. .linking him to the crime scene in any way, shape or form.
RIVERA: Well, what physical evidence existed?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: He was...
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MORRISON: Very little. A number of hair fibers--that we know of; that--that the investigators will tell us--a few hair fibers and some
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microscopic clothing fibers.
Mr. HICKS: Yeah, he...
RIVERA: Jackie, do you have any doubt in your mind that the right guy has been convicted?
Mr. HICKS: Yes, I think the right guy's been convicted. He's had--he had all of his testimony. He had any time to back out on what he was
saying. And he didn't back out until it came up before trial, and now he wants to back out. His daddy wants to play him ignorant. And
everybody else wants to play him ignorant, and he's not ignorant. A man that is not guilty will stand up. He'll stand up. He won't fall in for the
police or nobody and confess guilty.
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: He's not a man, though. He's a seven- or eight-year-old kid.
RIVERA: Is he retarded? Is that what Dad is saying here?
Mr. MORRISON: He functions--he functions at an--at an IQ level of 72--an over all IQ. SO in a--in a legal sense, he is not retarded. Jessie
Misskelley, though, it was apparent, is a--is a slow thinking teen-ager.
RIVERA: Who is the ringleader allegedly?
Mr. HICKS: Well, he can think fast enough to do and get out and do what he was doing down there at Mem--West Memphis; drinking his
beer and carrying on with the other people. So, you know, it's just like Paul said, in the state of Arkansas, mental retardation starts at an IQ of
65. Seventy-two? We've all got some mental ability, you know? If you want to holler that, then I'm a little bit nuts, too.
RIVERA: Me, too.
(Applause) .
RIVERA: We'll take a break. WHEN KIDS KILL KIDS: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT? Stay tuned.
(Announcements)
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-~ VERA: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO iT? We're exallJ.Ll1ing a brutal, triple homicide. Three eight-year-olds hacked to ueath down
in West Memphis, Arkansas. Yes, sir? .
Unidentified Man #4: Yeah. I'd like to know, do you feel that your son may have been involved in this Satanic cult himself; because now kids
are very impressionable and you never know?
RIVERA: No. These kids were eight years old. There's no...
Mr. HOBBS: Not a child. No.
RIVERA: No, sir. Terry, do you want to say something about your son?
Mr. HOBBS: Well, we had a--you know, an honor roll student, three years. We had an outstanding little boy. And he deserved better than
this.
RIVERA: Do you ever, Pam, second guess yourself, as so many survivors of murder--murdered children do? Oh, I shouldn't have let him out.
Oh, I shouldn't have let him walk across town. Oh, I should have kept my eye on him?'
Mrs..HOBBS: I blamed myself for awhile.
RIVERA: Oh, you can't do that. You know that's...
Mrs. HOBBS: Well, I did at first. I blamed myself because I let him go, but it's not my fault. I can't take the credit of saying that it's my fault.
It's not my fault.
Mr. MORRISON: These three kids did--did exactly what anyone of your children did that afternoon. They went out for a bike ride in their
neighborhood and they never came back.
RIVERA: Mm-hmm.
Unidentified Woman #3: For the parents, do you think that justice was served? Do you think that this boy deserves the death sentence? Or
what would you like to see happen to the one who was convicted?
Mrs..HOBBS: I'm satisfied with the sentence--the sentence that he did get. And I don't want to--them to reduce it to get him to testify. I would
rather them, the prosecution and all, to go with whatever information they do got without him.
Unidentified Woman #4: We saw the perfect room of a teen-ager. I'm curious to know, there's got to be other signs of dysfunction that would
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'.-6ger someone in their mind to say this is someone who's very plJssible--could get involved in a Satanic cult. One of my--one of my more
specific questions is dysfunction, meaning rebellion.
You know, you had boundaries for your son. You knew where you sent him. He knew when he was to be back. But to Misskelley, did your
son have boundaries and did he follow his boundaries? Do you know where your son was?
RlVERA: Mr. Misskelley, was Jessie kind of a hell-raiser?
Unidentified Woman #4 (Neighbor Of The Misskelleys): No.
RlVERA: Jessie?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No, he was--no, he was not a hell-raiser.
Woman #4: I don't think they can hear me.
RlVERA: Who else is speaking? Is that your wife sitting by you?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No. It's a neighbor.
RlVERA: OK. Hello, neighbor. Do you want to say something?
Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: She's the one that baby-sit--Jessie baby-sit for.
RlVERA: You let Jessie baby-sit your children?
Woman #4: Yes, and I would today.
RlVERA: Are you one of the people who claims you saw Jessie the night of the crime?
Woman #4: I don't claim that I saw him, I know I saw him.
RlVERA: Did you offer to testifY on his behalf?
Woman #4: I did testify.
RlVERA: Obviously, they didn't believe you. Why?
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Woman #4: I don't know why they didn't believe me. I told them the truth and that was the truth. I seen him out here at 6:30 that evening and
that's where he was at.
RIVERA: OK. Terry, you want to comment on what she just said?
Mr. TIOBBS: I heard a lot of testimony come up there for his defense, that was not convincing even to me. And I wasn't ajuror.
RIVERA: Now go back to Paul Morrison there. I want to get to our Satanic experts and broaden this discussion, Paul, but what about what
the young lady in the first row asked? What about evidence that Misskelley was in some other way, to use that much-bandied expression,
dysfunctional?
Mr. MORRISON: I think you--you could find that. As a matter of fact, his own clinical psychologist and several pretrial hearings said as
much on--and this was his defense psychologist. And the other two, Damian and Jason, I think you'd find that they, too, come from what is
the politically-eorrect term, a dysfunctional home, to one degree or another. But so do a lot ofteen-agers in this day and age.
RIVERA: OK. Jack Levin?
Mr. LEVIN: I think that's a good point. There are millions of people who've had troubled childhood experiences, and they don't go out and
commit these hideous acts. On the other side, I think that we--parents everywhere--have to know that their kids--their teen-age kids,
especially--are being supervised. You know, it's--it's not that our--that television is responsible for everything. Because we're always blaming
television. It's that our other institutions, our families, our religion, and our schools have become so weak. We've got to invest as much in our
teen-agers as we now invest in the stock market.
(Applause)
RlVERA: Let me take a break on that note. Then I'm going to go to Marcos Quinones, the cop here in New York, ask him what the big-city
reality is in this regard.
Stay tuned. Be right back.
(Announcements)
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1'-0. J"ERA: Professor-Levin was talking about the decline and fallot American civilization with emphasis on family, church and scnool. But
not all kids--I mean, some kids given the same opportunity, they do fine. Like little Stevie, one ofthe victims, Pam and Terry's boy. This is
his homework from the day he was murdered. In math, he got 100. In cursive writing, he got a--a star. And in English, he got a Very Good.'
And now he's dead, brutally murdered by--well, one 17-year-old already convicted, two others allegedly also responsible.
I want to go to NYPD's Marcos Quinones. Is any of this relevant to big-city America? Is it relevant to New York?
Office MARCOS QUINONES (Researcher Of Cu~t Crimes): Yes, I think it is. I think that many children, depending on the lifestyle they have
at home and the fellowship with their parents, if they don't have that family structure, will look into something else. I think because of the
lack of power that they have, they will tum to Satanism or some other form of the occult. There's so many things out there that will introduce'
this kind of philosophy. The philosophy is out there. My condolence to the family over, you know, this situation. Fortunately, not--not all kids
will, you know, kill or commit suicide with the exposure of Satanic material. But you get that one child out of a thousand--all of a sudden,
you have something like this. And I think it's very important for parents, teachers to be on top of these children, giving them what they need. I
think the basic home life, the love--I think that's the answer to all of this.
RIVERA: Are there more Satanic or ritual homicides here than we know about?
Officer QUINONES: I think in looking at some cases, a lot of it is labeled as Satanism. I don't think every mutilation crime is a Satanic crime.
I think we have to separate fact from fiction. But you get a case like this, and it's my own personal opinion--I think there's an element here. I
don't know, Paul, if in your investigation you feel that there are adults involved in this. That--you know, you just don't kill someone or three
individuals like this. The training that it took for these people to do this...
Mr. MORRISON: Not only that, but how do three teen-agers, one of them admittedly slow, no matter how diabolically clever, so thoroughly
sanitize the crime scene, and the time--and do all ofthe--all ofthe--made all ofthe injuries, committed the crimes and basically, be back home
in three hours? To the point there's not one drop of--excuse me--there was some microscopic drops of blood ruled inadmissible. No blood at
the crime scene.
RIVERA: How about the semen samples?
Mr. MORRISON: Well, the semen sample--they--a DNA specialist out of Greensboro, North Carolina, did testifY that he found what
appeared to be semen on one of the young bo--victim's pants, but there was not enough of that material for a proper test to get any match.
Questions.
RIVERA: Dr. Nieburg, overview on this?
Dr. NIEBURG: 1--1 think it's a very perplexing case. I think it's clear that there--there was a--there was a murder perpetrated. I think we--we
have not heard enough about the backgrounds, as--as Jack Levin had said. I'm--I'm convinced that if one does what's known as a
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p;:;ychological autopsy; if we really go back--and I think Paul is really doing that, as--as a result of his chronicling and his record-keeping--
things are going to come out; and especially after the trial. There's an awful lot sealed here that we don't know about. And...
RIVERA: What about the larger question of is there an epidemic of ritual cwi--crime?--violence?
Dr. NIEBURG: There's not an epidemic. There are more cases reported, it's out in the open. We're educating people. As a matter of fact, one
of the things I really wanted to share with both of you is, if there's anything that would--and I don't mean the word justify' in its--in its real
sense--the fact that you are here, the three of you, to educate other people to what this is about, in--in one sense says that you're doing your
part to help this heal.
Mr. HICKS: Definitely. That's exactly right.
RIVERA: We'll be right back.
(Announcements)
RIVERA: Professor Levin, do you have a 30-second bit of wisdom for us?
Mr. LEVIN: Well, you know, we've already said make sure you know where your kids are. But I would say, make sure you know who your
kids' friends are.
Mr. MORRISON: Make sure you know what they're reading, too.
Mr. HICKS: Yeah.
(Applause)
Mr. LEVIN: And make sure that you know what they're seeing in every day life, because we don't want to let the peer groups fill the void in
our children's lives, that ought to be filled by our traditional institutions.
(Credits roll)
RIVERA: Jackie, do you want to say something?
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Mr. HICKS: Yes, I would. I'd like to say that the only reason that I come to New York to be on this show, I'm--don't want my little grandson's
death to go in vain. I don't want to be critical, but I want to very, very much make a plea to all the mothers, fathers, grandmas, granddaddies:
please love your children. Believe it. Get your heads' out of the sand. It's real. Love them, respect them, show them your love.
RIVERA: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT? We'll keep you updated on this. Thanks for watching, folks. Bye-bye.
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Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of 2)
[Beginning of recorded material)
Interviewer: [Unintelligible] recording?

Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of 2)
Interviewer: Yeah. I just got to do this. [Unintelligible] right this way. [Where's] the
mic? I1lleave [unintelligible].
Interviewer: I was thinking this might be a good"thing. Maybe even if you don't
mind just starting over, just --
Interviewer: Starting over this -
>')~)1; Interviewer: Yeah. Just because I want-
Interviewer: [Crosstalk] afternoon [crossta1k] --
Tigerfislt
Transcribing-Editing Interviewer: _: because one ofthe things -- because again, one ofthe things I want
to make sure tbat we do, what we are intending to do is the-the whole
203 Columbus Avenue' San Francisco 94133 thing you and I talked about as far as showing-showing - making
toll-free 877-TJOERFISH
Stevie a person. I want to see him at school. I want to see him come
www.tlgerfuh.com
home. I want to see him with his mom. You know, 1want this person
--
to be a person. And so .-
Interviewer: And what's great about this --
m Interviewer: - specific details of-ofthat are really-really good. llove the Elvis
)(
[') -
:r: story. I think there's a good chance that's going in the movie.
OJ
:::j
Pam and Terry Hobb. Interview (I 0(2) Pam and Terry Hob\>! Interview (1 0(2)
Page 2 Poge3
And so, Stevie and Michael left just as happy as they could be. I
Interviewer: And wbat's great about this is -- thought Michael had a watch on, because he told me as they rolled off,
he said, "My mom's not home yet, but she11 be home in five minutes, I
Interviewer: And-and the conversation about Mik~ buying the Elvis lamp. promise." Well, I wouldn't think five minutes had passed by the time
Christopher was knocking on the door. And he asked about Stevie a
Interviewer: This bas -- this bas all -- this has the three kids in it. This is just lot, and I told him, "Well, you just missed him. They just left to go to
[crosstalk]. Michael's house." And he said, "Well, can I come in and see Amanda
for a little bit?" And I said, "Yeah, that'd be fine." So, they sat in the
Interviewer: And this is all three of them. This might be a useful way for partly to den and watched the Muppet Babies, and when the Muppet Babies
frame all that. went off he left. So•..
Interviewer: I love that. I love that. Okay. So, pick him up the 2:45. Interviewer: How much older - or Amanda was a little younger, right?
Pam Hobbs: Yeah, at school. Pam Hobbs: She waS 4.
Terry Hobbs: At school. Interviewer: Four. So, he had a little crush on-on Amanda?
Pam Hobbs: And then we walk home. And of course on the way home, Stevie told Pam Hobbs: Yeah.
me - probably a million times; I didn't count them - "They love me."
I'd say around 3:00 or 5:00 is when Michael arrived, because school Terry Hobbs: Four years older.
got out around 3:00 or so, and we lived so close. Michael came over,
and Stevie would get into the [car fort] [unintelligible] by the time Pam Hobbs: Melissa had told me that after they were murdered, that, urn,
Michael got there, and Michael asked if Stevie could come over to his Christopher came home one day and said, "[I'm going to bave a]
house. And I told him, "No, not today. I'm getting ready for work. I'm girlfriend." And she said, "Uh, wbo?" And he said, "Yeah, but she's
cooking supper and all that." And Stevie and Mike were both begging, younger than me." And she said, "Well, how old is sbe?" And he told
"Please, please! I'll be back!" And I said, "Boy, if you're not back her, "She's 4, and she's [who is she?] Stevie's sister [Amanda]."
home by 4:30, you're grounded two weeks [unintelligible]."
[Laughter]
Pam aDd Terry HDbbs Intervle" (1 o(2) Pam aDd Terry HDbbs Intervle" (1 ofZ)
Pnge4 PageS
Interviewer: Dat-dating a WOman half his age already. Terry Hobbs: I said, "You tell her in here, boy."
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm. [Laugher]
Interviewer: It's-it's like in Hollywood or something. Interviewer: Who was -- who was Stevie better friends with, Christopher or
Michael?
Pam Hobbs: And Stevie was, uh -- [always hitching up a date] with Michael
Moore's sister, Dawn. Pam Hobbs: Michael.
Terry Hobbs: And she was older. Interviewer: Yeah. They were - were they like best friends, the two of them?
Interviewer: I think I remember-remember hearing that, because Stevie was - he Pam Hobbs: Yeah.
was ambitious in the older women.
Interviewer: They were - they did everything together. But they hung out with
Pam Hobbs: Yep. Chris quite a bit?
Interviewer: And, uh - and Chris had the younger - that's [crosstalk]. Pam Hobbs: Uh, Chris and Stevie were in the same [group]. So, I would say
probably, uh, about a month before the murder was when Chris really
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] hung out with Mike, or Chris come over and I got him [not started hanging around them both.
wanting toJ kiss Amanda.
Interviewer: Okay. What would you think of - I mean, uh, of Mike and-and Chris,
Pam Hobbs: And he was just [over-abused] in that day. And, uh, he'd come in, and particularly -- just-just in your encounters with them, with the boys?
I asked Terryifhe could tell Amanda, "Bye." And Terry said, "Well,
tell her bye," and Christopher shyly put his hands in his Pocket and Pam Hobbs: [As the boys]?
told her, "Bye," which Stevie was out on the car fort laughing, because
he knew Christopher wanted her to come out there so he could give Interviewer: Yeah, just [unintelligible].
her a kiss bye. And Terry [got him], "Tell her bye now."
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intervlew (I ofZ) Pam and Terry HobbaIntervtew (I ofZ)
P8ge6 Page?
Pam Hobbs: [Unintelligible]. Uh, Michael was over one day, and he had a little
play badge, and he told me he as an undercover drug agent. And I said, Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible] Todd--
"Boy, you going to get them" --
Pam Hobbs: We knew the Moores.
Interviewer: A little -- a little sheriffs badge [unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: -- Todd was [crosstalk].
Pam Hobbs; I said, "Boy, you going to go get them bad boys, ain't you?" He said,
"Yeah,1I [Crosstalk]
Interviewer: Yeah. What about Chris? Interviewer: Right, right, right, right.
Pam Hobbs: Michael spent more time -- Chris, uh, he was just a little shy little boy Terry Hobbs: We met Mark Byers [unintelligible].
then. Started coming over right before they died.
Interviewer: Right.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer; So, all you - the only way you -- you didn't know them directly at all,
Pam Hobbs: He didn't spend as much time there as Michael did. but their boy, because of being in the neighborhood, would just come
over -- he had just started kind of coming over as sort ofhanging out
Interviewer; He was more quiet and -- with your son, and with -- and with Mike?
Pam Hobbs: Yeah, qniet. Pam Hobbs: Yeah.
Interviewer: Had you guys -- had you all known the Moores before that, or did you Interviewer: And you knew they were in the troop, or you knew they knew each
kind ofjust get to know them when their kids started hanging out? other from school.
Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible]. Interviewer: And so, let's talk -- let's talk about what-what-what you remember
from the night, from the time you went to tell Pam that he was still
Interviewer: Vb, really? So, you hadn't even met them, [unintelligible] parents? missing.
Porn ond Terry Hobbs Interview (I 0(2) Pam ond Terry Hobb.lntervlew (1012)
Page 8 Poge9
Pam Hobbs: Yeah. Terry had .come home, 00, a little bit after 4:00, and the first
Interviewer: Or do you want to start from where we stopped her, and just kind of thing he asked was, "W4ere's Frog Leg?" That was Stevie's nickname.
take it on through? And I said, "He went [unintelligible] .- or rode bikes with, uh, Mike
boy. He'll be -
Interviewer: Yeah, sure. That's fine. You said around 3:05, or wlult was it, that they
Interviewer: I guess that's - is that because of the way he looked, or [crosstalk]?
took off, right?
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk].

Interviewer: Well, they were left here.
Interviewer: Frog-Frog Leg? Tell, tell.

Interviewer: Steve •• ub, Chris left.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah. We was living up in Indiana. My dad had a re - a chain of

Terry Hobbs: Yeah, but they were .-
restaurants - we had 32 restaurants. Okay, one -- had [some up in]
Indiana. The one I refer to has a big lake to have a swim, and have a
Pam Hobbs: CJ;uis left--
good time. Right in the middle ofthis lake waS a -- something like this
out there floating around, where you could climb up on it and dive off.
Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible] -.'
Uh, 80-foot -- there's signs posted out·there, 80-foot beach
[unintelligible]. We all get out there to that, and climb up on there.
Pam Hobbs: •. almost around 4:00.
Pam's still on her way, swimming out there to it.
Terry Hobbs: •• [about] 4:00, because after the show ended.

Interviewer: Right.
Pam Hobbs: The Muppet Babies come on at 3:30, and [they're off] at 4:00.
Terry Hobbs: And me and Stevie's already up there on top of it. And he bails offin
there, not knowing how to swim.
Terry Hobbs: Right..
Interviewer: Ohman.
Interviewer: And you had •• then they weren't back by 4:30?
Pam nnd Terry Hobb. Interview (1 ofZ) Pam nnd Terry Hobbs Inlervlew (IoU)
Page 10 Page Il
Terry Hobbs: And boy, immediately I go in to get him. But when I go down to get driveway and look, you know, closerit gets to 4:30, to see if! can see
him, he just looking like a frog. him coming down the road, because I had to take her to work by 5:00.
Interviewer: [Laughs] Pam Hobbs: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] kicking his legs and arms, trying to go up. He wasn't going Interviewer: And then -- and then [crosstalk)?·
down.
Pam Hobbs: We left about 4:45, so we could go by the Moores to see if Stevie was
Interviewer: That's [unintelligible]. I used to teach [unintelligible] by throwing there, and tell him he was grounded. But, you know, they wasn't there.
them in the water, because they'll-they'll do it naturally. And I went [crosstalk) --
Terry Hobbs: I put my band on his butt, just, you know, brought him up. Interviewer: So, is that [while] you were -- as-as soon as it was 4:30, you were,
upset --
Interviewer: Brought him up, yeah. I love that. They call him "Frog Leg" ever. since
then. Pam Hobbs: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah. Interviewer: -- you were mad that he wasn't there?
Interviewer: That's fantastic. Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk) wasn't home.
Interviewer: So, so you came home. She was getting ready for work, right, I guess? Terry Hobbs: [Not] mad.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah. Interviewer: Well, I mean [unintelligible].
Interviewer: And you came home, and you guys were like worried? Pam Hobbs: Not really thinking that anybody [unintelligible].
terry Hobbs: I asked her, "Where's Stevie at?" Because Amanda was there, and she Interviewer: That's valid. Just thinking he just missed his --
said, "He's off riding his bicycle. He'll be home at 4:30." I waik out the
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1012)

Pogel2 Porn "od Terry Hobbs Interview (IoU)
Poge 13
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk].

her. Then Dana comes over to our house and says, "You seen
Michael?" I say, "No, he was supposed to be at your house." She went-
Interviewer: So at that point, you're going on to work, and you just feel like, "Okay,
went back to her house, and kind ofpatrolled the neighborhood, and
he-he stayed out too long. I told him."
that's where I met Mark Byers, when I went to her house. He carne
across the street and asking if we'd seen Christopher. And we said,
Interviewer: So, from 4:45 - what time did you have to start work? IlNo" __
ParnHobbs: At 5:00.
Interviewer: Is it - is it 4:00 - about 4:00 - about 5:00 [crosstalk], so 5:30, 5:I5?
Interviewer: At 5:00, okay.

Terry Hobbs: Something in there.
Interviewer: So, you took her on to work after you guys checked with the Moores.
Interviewer: . Okay. And that's the first time you've laid eyes on him actually, right?
There had been -- nobody had heard anything from him, and the
Moores weren't worried either, right? They just knew that these boys
Terry Hobbs: In my life.
were staying out [crosstalk].
Interviewer: Yeah. He's like, "I'm Mark Byers" --

Terry Hobbs: Todd was out of town. He's a truck driver.
Terry Hobbs: Big old boy.

Interviewer: Hm.
Interviewer: -- Chris' dad. llive up the street Have you seen -

Terry Hobbs: And Dana's not home.
Terry Hobbs: He lived right across the street from the Moores.
Interviewer: Okay.
Interviewer: Right.
Interviewer: And she's thinking [crosstalkl--
Terry Hobbs: Mm-hmm. [Unintelligible].

Terry Hobbs: [Unmtelligible]. I took her to work. I go back to my house. You know,
me and Amanda ride through the neighborhood to see if we could see
Pam and Terry Hob!>! Interview (I o(2) Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (I of2)
Page 14 Pogo IS
Interviewer:· And so, you guys had actually just driven by the Moores just to see if Terry Hobbs: Well, we hadn't heard from them. They leave our house to go to her
they were there, and you took her on to work. You went back to the house.
Moores •• or Dana Moore came over.
Interviewer: Ycab. And then Mark Byers walked over.
Terry Hobbs: Well? I went back to the neighborhood, iooking around [crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs: That's when Mark came walking across, asking about Chris.
Interviewer: Yeah. By yourself]
Interviewer: So, what happened then?
[Crosstalk]
Terry Hobbs: We figured out they might be together.
Interviewer: Ycab.
Interviewer: He - so, Mark Byers came to your ·house?
Interviewer: So, this would've been at 5:15 or so.
Interviewer: No, he came across the street to -
Terry Hobbs: Right?
Interviewer: Came to Dana's house, [because they were out] at 6:00.
Interviewer: Ycab.
Pam Hobbs: [Unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: And we end up back at our house. Then Dana shows up at our house ••
Terry Hobbs: That Was between 5:00 and 6:00.
Interviewer: Okay.
Interviewer: All right, I missed something. So, how did you end up at Dana's
Terry Hobbs: - and asks about Mike. house?
Interviewer: And then while you guys are kind of walking and looking around, you Interviewer: They went over there after driving around.
run into Mark Byers? Had you guys started [crosstalk]?
Interviewer: Uh, you drove around, ilien went back to Dana's house, and then Mark
came over and it was about 6:00?
i
Pam Bnd'Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of 2) Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (l 011.)
, Poge 16 Page J7
Terry Hobbs: Somewhere in there. Terry Hobbs: No. We were - there's paperwork over there saying that I called them
between 5:00 and 5:30, I believe, and -- to report kids missing - our
Interviewer: Somewhere in there, [unintelligible). Okay. And then - and then Dana kid's missing.
said -- Didn't Dana -- didn't Dana testify that she saw him around
6:00? Interviewer: After Chris had -- after Mark Byers had walked over, do you think, or-
or before?
Pam Hobbs: , I think [someone did).
Terry Hobbs: I think before.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.
Interviewer: But it Was right in that timeframe. You know, basically once Dana
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk]. Moore came over, said, IIHave you seenfl -- you know, "I'm
concerned," and you guys went back to the Moores' house, and you
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk). That's right. were kind oftogether thinking, "Okay, both of our kids are gone.
They're both late. We're a little worried now." Then Mark Byers walks
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk). over, says, "I'm Mark Byers. I'm Chris' dad. Have you seen him?"
Then the three of you guys figure these - the kids may be all together.
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk) that's right. [Crosstalk] -- yeah. So, somewhere in that time you were getting concerned enough that
you calIed the police and said, "Hey, we've been looking for our boys.
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk] go into a wooded area. We can't find them. Can you guys start [unintelligible)?"
Interviewer: So, why do you think, urn - why do you think at that point that Stevie Terry Hobbs: And the answer the police told me -- "Don't worry about it. They're
didn't come home? Like -- I mean, ifthey were out, [unintelligible) over at someone's house playing. They'll be home. "
obviously [unintelligible] the neighborhood around 5:30.

Interviewer: Because it was so soon after they --
Terry Hobbs: J called the police to make a report about 5:30.

Terry Hobbs: Right.
Pam Hobbs: I thought you made the report at [9:00) [unintelligible]?

Pam and Terry Hobb.. Interview (1 of2) Pam aDd Terry Hobin Interview (1 orl)
Page 18 Pogo 19
Interviewer: So, you were starting to just get that slight sense of, "I'm a little Interviewer: Right.
worried, '
Terry Hobbs: -- to her house. Well, we never did run across nobody. I mean nothing,
Interviewer: Because [unintelligible]. no boys. That's what we was looking for. I take Amanda over to a
friend ofours that lived over by us, and pick her husband up, and leave
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] [or not]. Amanda there, and tell him, I sDid, "I can't find Steve." He knew
Stevie [unintelligible]. So, me and him spent the rest ofthe evening--
Interviewer: No? he-he stayed with me.
Terry Hobbs: He did want to help, kind of, like [crosstalk].. Interviewer: Who's he?
Interviewer: And had-had Stevie ever done that before, just not come home on-on Terry Hobbs: David [Unintelligible]. He was just a friend who had a daughter
time? [crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs: It was unusual enough that you felt like -- Interviewer: [Crosstalk].
Interviewer: Right. Interviewer: And his daughter, you said, was a friend of [the family]?
Terry Hobbs: •• something needs to be done, Terry Hobbs: Right. But me and him worked together [over in Memphis]. Vh, we
rolled around, and I got him with me. And we went everywhe~ we
Interviewer: And what happened from that point [unintelligible]? could think ofto look. You know? And didn't know where to look.
Terry Hobbs: We was told, "Don't worry about it. They'll be home." Well, as Interviewer: [Did you go] near or into the woods at that point [unintelligible]?
parents, you know, we •• the Byers, Mark and Melissa, go out and ride
around [unintelligible]. And me and Amanda go ride around Terry Hobbs: No, not then.
[unintelligible). And Dana stays at her house, in case they come home
Interviewer: Was that a place that they played in a lot, or did you not
[unintelligible]?
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (I of2)

Pago20 Pam and Terry Hobbs IntervJew (1012)
Pogo 21
Terry Hobbs: Not at that time.

Terry Hobbs: It was a place where kids had played and did thIngs, like there's a
[unintelligible] -
Interviewer: Okay.
Interviewer: [Unintelligible] kids would get up in there somehow and just run Terry Hobbs: But we did later.
around and play?
Interviewer: Yeah. So, at the time [unintelligible].

Terry Hobbs: [But they·they] didn't know where he was at. [Unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible] we would go up and ask, "Have you seen three boys?"
Interviewer: [Crosstalk] definitely didn't know it as a place where he'd go play. And every - a lot of the kids were saying, "Yeah, we seen three boys
go into Robin Hood Hills." I didn't know where Robin Hood Hills was,
Terry Hobbs: That's rigbt, yeah. as far as they called it. But yeah, the more the people we asked, you
know, some ofthem kept saying, "Yeah, they [went there]."
Pam Hobbs: The first time [crosstalk] ••
Interviewer: You were •• so, you ran into a couple ofpeople who said they actually
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk]. - they saw them go in there?
Pam Hobbs: •• Stevie, you're not in here. Terry Hobbs: Right.
Interviewer: That's •• so, you had just heard about it, and you go there and •• you Interviewer: So, at what point did you - so, so you're still riding around at this
didn't know kids go in there personally, they would go in. point, haven't seen them •. separately·· it's you riding around with
your friend .•
Terry Hobbs: Right.
Terry Hobbs: David.
Interviewer: You just heard that maybe kids - Did you •• had you also heard
anythil,lg about it being like a place not to be after dark, like maybe Interviewer: - in your car. And, uh, assume the Byers •• you're not in touch with
transients being there, anything else about it? them, but you assume they're out looking, because [crosstalk]-
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intorvlow (1 of2) Porn ond Terry Hobbs Intervlow (IoU)
Pago22 Pag023
Terry Hobbs: Well, we had seen them.

Interviewer: Yeah, yeah.
Interviewer: -- around. Are they walking or driving?
Interviewer: And you were getting away from your little group of the rew people
Terry Hobbs: Driving. you knew right around there. You're just starting to ask strangers, but
you just [unintelligible].
Interviewer: And then, uh -- and Dana Moore's still at home?
Terry Hobbs: .The police -- the police had at one point told us, "Go door-to-door and
Terry Hobbs: Right. ask." So, a lot of us was doing that. You know, people we didn~ even
know, there was starting to get -- be a gathering.
Interviewer: And then what happened?
Interviewer: So, people were starting to get the word that some-some of our
Interviewer: And were any of the people that told you that they saw -- they saw neighbors we don't even know, three ofthe boys are gone. And some
them go into the woods, were they people you knew? people are starting to come out, and then they're asking their
neighbors, and it's becoming a--
Terry Hobbs: No.
Pam Hobbs: That actually --
Interviewer: Yeah. You just - you were just asking people [unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: Neighbors [crosmalk].
Terry Hobbs: Right. Door-to-door, [unintelligible].
Pam Hobbs: - didn't happen until the next day.
Interviewer: Uh, really? So, it was -- you were getting that --
Interviewer: Okay.
Terry Hobbs: Starting to -
Pam Hobbs: People going door-to-door and stuff. Urn, a police officer came to
Interviewer: Starting to get -- [Catfish Island] where I worked, and took a report, went out to the
wooded area [with us] -- and I think [Gina Baker] was there. And
Terry Hobbs: Starting to want to know something.
Porn aDd Terry Hobb. Interview (loll) Pam and Terry Robb. Interview (loll)
Pagel4 Page2S
those were the last two poliee offieers I seen all night. They might be Terry Hobbs: Before dark. And right at dark before Pam came, I picked her up from
it. work. There was a •• there was, uh, boys on four-wheelers, three-
wheelers, riding. And everybody kept pointing to Robin Hood, and
Intefviewer: Okay. there was people actually going out in Robin Hood looking to see if
.they was out there.
Terry Hobbs: And we-we was going down to the poliee station. [Crosstalk].
Interviewer: Okay. So, it had started·· some local _. some people in the - in the
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk], and all that. And they told us, "We have every available neighborhood had started thinking they could be there, and [crosstalk].
man on the force out there looking." Well, Terry was riding around
with David, and my daddy came down to help join the search too. But Interviewer: What time were you -- what time were you •• were you supposed to
at one point I found myself -- and I was speeding through Broadway in work until? Until 9:00?
West Memphis, and there wasn't a eop to stop me. I didn't see a cop
nowhere. Terry Hobbs: Until 9:00.
Interviewer: And this was all, though, much later that [night]? Pam Hobbs: Until 9:00.
Interviewer: This is after [crosstalk]. Interviewer: Ycab, okay. And then - and that's why you went there at 9:00,
because you knew it was time for her to get off.
Pam Hobbs: Yeah, later on.
Terry Hobbs: Right.
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] after 9:00.
Interviewer: And when you picked her up, nobody had talked to you yet, right?
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm.
Interviewer: So, leading up to 9:00 then still, just to get that sense of your first
experience of it, you were still driving around? People actually Interviewer: You were at work. So, basically you had gone to work knowing that
[unintelligible], but you were going door-tn-door-- Stevie was late in coming home.
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of2) Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of2)
Page 26 Page 27
Pam Hobbs: Yes. Terry Hobbs: She said it [first thing].
Interviewer: And then he came and picked you up, and that's where it's like -- you Interviewer: Is that -- that was the first thing? You just -- your first response was-
said, "Did Stevie ever come home?" or whatever, and you said you had
the pieces of candy -- Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk].
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk] went to the car and -- Interviewer: - "He's dead ll ?
Interviewer: -- you said you-you had two pieces of candy in your hand for them, Pam Hobbs: When I called my sister at work to tell her Stevie was missing, that's
for-for your kids. the first thing I said to her too. I said, "He's dead." I said, "I'll never see
him alive again." And she's, "Dh God, Pam, don't say that. He's going
Pam Hobbs: -- [crosstalk] for Amanda -- to be okay. We're going to find him," but [crosstalk] Stevie
[unintelligible]. I knew --
Interviewer: And so, you went - you hended out to the car expecting to see both of
them. Interviewer: Did you start [to get] frantic [unintelligible] inside?
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm. Pam Hobbs: And when I didn't see him - when I didn't see him in the car, I
[unintelligible], because Stevie wasn't that type of child.
Interviewer: Because they usually come all to pick you up together.
Interviewer: You just knew?
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm.
Interviewer: And then what exactly did you say, if you remember?
Interviewer: And so from that point, for you, the night was-was just sort of this in-
Terry Hobbs: She asked me where Steve was. I said, "We haven't fotuld him yet." inside, frantic fear, [unintelligible]--
Interviewer: And that's when you said, "He's dead"? Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk].
Pam and Terry Hobbs IntervIew (1 of!) Pam and Terry Hobbslntervle", (I or2)
Pago 28 Poge29
Interviewer: -- stress, driving fast, trying to --

Interviewer: That's all that night.
Terry Hobbs: Praying to God that you're wrong.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.
Pam Hobbs: "God, please don't let this be so," but kind ofknowing in my heart that
[that's] really what happened. Interviewer: So, different people are'saying -- they literally are saying, "I saw three
kids, uh, getting in that ice cream van."
Interviewer: And meanwhile, you had [set offto] keep looking [or whatever]?
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] around dark.
Interviewer: Somebody else says, "I saw three boys over at the laundromat."
Interviewer: And just trying to be calm, trying to keep her calm as you're feeling
scared yourself inside? Interviewer: Somebody says -- what-what-what -- somebody said they were put in
an ice cream van?
Terry Hobbs: Yeah. [Unintelligible] the closer to dark it got, I mean, they were--
they -- he's scared of dark. Terry Hobbs: A van.
Interviewer: You knew that was bad. Interviewer: Was it - okay. Well, it could've been any van, not necessarily an ice
cream Van.
Interviewer: At that point, at least you're thinking -- are you thinking maybe he's
had an accident, something like that? Or are you thinking maybe, even Terry Hobbs: And that lawyer that they brought from California -- what was his
that early, that someone had done something to him? narne?
Terry Hobbs: Whatever we-we-we hear -- we heard so many things. You know, we Pam Hobbs: Chris [Unintelligible].
heard that they was over there at the laundromat, so we ran over there
te the laundromat to see ifthey were in there. We heard somebody put Terry Hobbs: He lived here in West M.emphis, and somehow he ended up i~
them in a van. You remember that? We heard somebody put them in California. They broUght him back to West Memphis t~ question him,
an ice cream van. because, uh - because he drove an ice cream van.
Pam nnd Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of 2)

Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 0(2)
Page 30 Page 31
Interviewer: And then somebody else said - I think how - I mean, did they sound
So that night, all you heard was a white van, white or yellow? certain when they were telling you this stuff, or would they be like, "I
Interviewer:
[Unintelligibie] found out it was an ice cream van. think maybe I saw some boys over at the laundromat"? I mean --
Terry Hobbs: We did -- we went over to the laundromat and checked.

Terry Hobbs: Yeah. And I worked for an ice cream coml?any at the time.
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm.

Interviewer: [Unintelligible], yeah.
Interviewer: The official statements are pretty solid that people saw them go into
Terry Hobbs: So, I had some of my customers tell me, "You did it!"
the woods. That's the last time they were seen.
Interviewer: Yeah. Who was it -- do you remember who it was that said that they
Terry Hobbs: There was somebody watching a show that was on about 6:00
saw them get in the van?
[crosstalk] --
Terry Hobbs: Just neighborhood people.

Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk] the news.
Interviewer: Just neighborhood people? And was it -- did they say "van," or did
Terry Hobbs: Yeah. And they-they said, "Yeah, we live here in the woods over--
they say "ice cream van?"
and see them going in there."
Terry Hobbs: Van.

Interviewer: All right
Interviewer: Just van?

Interviewer: Was that -. do you happen to know ifthose folks that said that - and
they're watching the news, so that's how they knew the time?
Terry Hobbs: . A white van.
Interviewer: Roughiy it would've been·· was it 5:30 evening news, between 5:30
Interviewer: A white van.
and 6:00? Or was it the 6:00?
Pam Hobbs: [Unintelligible] 6:00.

Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (I o(2) Pam ond Terry Hobbs Interview (I ofl)
Poge 32 Page 33
Interviewer: The rest of the night.

Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible].
Interviewer: -- you keep on -- you keep looking-Jooking then. What do you

Interviewer: Was that over by the pipe, that place? Or was that over at a different remember about that period ofjust the search? You searched all night
part? Do you remember the pe9ple that you're talking - that you
talked to, where they said -- and they said they saw them going in. Interviewer: Yeah. Like it was like, and what-what was happening. I've heard that
Like going on into the woods, three-three boys. there were tons ofpeople.
Terry Hobbs: Wouldn't it be by the apartments? Interviewer: I-I -- yeah, it's one of those things I haven't heard very much. There's
not much to-to find in terms of documentation about --
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm.
Interviewer: Right.
. Interviewer: By the Mayfair Apartments?
Interviewer: -- what actually went on that night.
Terry Hobbs: By Mayfair.
Terry Hobbs: Because there was no police.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer; And-and were you - how angry were you about that?
Terry Hobbs: It's over on the end where the pipe is.
Terry Hobbs: Very! We had made--
Interviewer: Mm-hmm.
Interviewer: Imeljll--
IntefViewer: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: -- two or three trips down to the police station that night.
Interviewer: That's where they found the bicycles too.
Interviewer: Where were the cops? Where were they? Still don't know?
Interviewer: That's right. Okay. So, anyway, IUD, so --
Pam and Terry Hnbbs Interview (1 0(2) Pam and Terry Hobbs interview (1 orZ)
Page 34 Pago 35
Terry Hobbs: They told us to go home, don't worry about it; they'll be home (to Pam Hobbs: Michael Moore.
sleep].
Terry Hobbs: And Chris.
Interviewer: Okay.
Interviewer: I've never heard that.
Pam Hobbs: I told them one time, I said, "He's 8 years old. He sleeps with a
nightlight in his room. He did not run away from home." So. Terry Hobbs: And we-we heard it. We don't know if it's true.
Interviewer: And they just -- they just were not -- Interviewer: Right.
Interviewer: They didn't give you any reason why they thought these boys might -- Interviewer: And we'd heard some things about, you know, Chris [may have] some
they might have run away, like maybe they thought one of the kids had problems. So, so I wonder -- did you get any sense that the police
done that, or anything, or? Because you're saying - Stevie's-Stevie's acted like they knew somethIng about some ofthese other boys that
not a runaway. You said, you know, "We know he's"-- made them more inclined to believe that they might have run off or
something like that, or they -
Terry Hobbs: We didn't know if the other two had done it at the time, but we found
out some things about them after the fact. Terry Hobbs: The police made you believe like they didn't care.
Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Like what? Interviewer; That's when [crosstalk]?
Terry Hobbs: Well, didn't someone tell us that they broke into school? Interviewer: (Crosstalk] show up.
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm. Terry Hobbs: Mark Byers had called Search and Rescue in Crittenden County.
Interviewer: Who broke into school? Interviewer: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: Michael Moore. Terry Hobbs: Crittenden County told Mark that, "We can't come to West Memphis
until the police invite us." And they wouldn't (do].
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Page 36 Pom and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 en)
- . Page 37
Interviewer: A couple of boys said they went back alilfle later for a splash or
Interviewer: And as far as you knew -- like you said, you're-you're like -- maybe
whatever, and they were -
going looking -- well, first you're driving around town, just like going
crazy, "Where could they be in town?" holding all this nervous energy,
Terry Hobbs: Yeab. We was together at one point during that night when we heard
I guess. And at that point, you had been in the woods, right, yourself?
some splashing.
Or yon --
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk] about 9:00.

Pam Hobbs: I was -- we went [crosstalk).
Terry Hobbs: And [crosstalk] like animals. It was more like -- they've never [done it
Terry Hobbs: We went to the woods [crosstalk].
before].
Interviewer: .So, you'd been -- you got a little bit into the woods. You callout
Interviewer: You'd never been in there, so you wouldn't had anything to relate to in
Nobody sees anything. Then you go back. You-you're driving around.
the wilderness. It was all new to you. You're like going in these
And meanwhile you're seeing no police, no police in the woods.
woods, [crosstalk].
Neighborhood people are in the woods, kids on four-wheelers are in
the woods.
Terry Hobbs: We didn't know where we were going.
Terry Hobbs: . Closer [on into] to the darkness, people start going home. It was just
Interviewer: And all you had was little flashlights.
us_
Pam Hobbs: Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah. Because I've read some things, and, you know, [unintelligible]
people talking about that night, kind of the chaos in the woods, that
Interviewer: That's what you had.
some people were riding around on-on ATVs and stuff. And then a lot
of them did leave, but a handful ofpeople- Terry Hobbs: We were all sticking together and just kind oflooking around.
Terry Hobbs: [They came] back. Interviewer: You said the first time you went in there, you're like, "Oh God, Stevie,
you're not -- you're not" --
Pam and Terry Hobbs interview (1 0(2) Pnm and Terry Hobb. Interview (1 0(2)
Page 38 Poge39
Pam Hobbs: Just by the way it was grown up and everything, I was thinking, "Lord
have mercy, son, you're not out here." And I started, uh, yelling out his Terry Hobbs: And [unintelligible] no [unintelligible] that time.
name, saying, "Stevie, son! You're not in trouble! Come homel" We
didn't find him. Interviewer: So all that night, you guys - by then you're sort of together, you've
done your driving around. And most -- off and on you're together or
Interviewer: And-and your feeling was, "This is not the kind of place Stevie would you're with [your friends].
go play anyway," or you-you're hoping not?
Pam Hobbs: He's with David, and I'm with my dad.
Terry Hobbs: Right.
Interviewer: Your - because you dad had come down pretty quick. You called him
Interviewer: Because it's just so overgrown and-and -- after you got offwork.
Pam Hobbs: Mrn-hmm. Pam Hobbs: As Soon os Terry got there, yeah. And, uh, from [BlyWood] it takes
about an hour and 15 minutes, and daddy was there in probably 30.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: And that's when he kind of hurt his back or leg or something, because
[Crosstalk] he was out messing around --
Interviewer: What's left of it, yeah. It felt like it was pretty swift. Did you get down Pam Hobbs: He did that when he went to the woods by himself with nobody out
to the water too, and [crosstalk]1 there with [crosstalk] -
Terry Hobbs: . [Well], we crossed the pipe. Interviewer: Was that your dad?
Interviewer: And you saw it, and the water's moving [unintelligible]1 Pam Hobbs: -- went through there, and he had a flashlight. And he had told us the
he tried two sels of, uh, bicycle trails, and it looked like that two boys
Terry Hobbs: It was deep. was on one bike, and down there close to the pipe was [unintelligible)
lost his balance.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of2)

Pem end Terry Hobin Interview (I of 2)
Pege40
Poge41
Interviewer; Yeah. So, he had gotten to that pipe, and that's where he -- where you turned around to woIk back to the truck. I wanted to run. And my
guys had heard somebody say they had gone in. And sure enough, daddy was getting ready to go back in, because he thought
thars where he said he saw some tracks -- [unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs; Right Interviewer; So, he had [crosstalk] most everybody had gone home, like you said,
the people who had been in the woods. And then your dod said, "I'm
Interviewer: -- on that mini-gutter. So, he was one of the fust ones -- be was the going to go look again," and he went by himself. You know, can you
first one to really start looking around in the woods. And then these switch with me? Because I - my back's killing me. I think this seat
kids - or had others been in the woods? might be better [crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs; They-they [unintelligible] the woods before dark. Interviewer; Yeah.
Interviewer: Okay. Interviewer: [Cro.stalk]. I got to change my angle for my lower back. We're both
having back trouble today. My neck is kinked up, and hi. [crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs: [And riding] --
Interviewer: We're-we're a mess. Uh, what do you think -- when you'think about it
Interviewer: But there was nobody in there, you're saying, when he went at that now, do you think -- what do you think that fear was? Do you think --
time? do you have an -- do you bave an idea ofwbat it was, or do you know
now?
Pam Hobbs; No, not when doddy -
Pam Hobbs: Urn, thinking back to when it happened and all that, I think maybe
Terry Hobbs: Right. [who] might have done it [wasn~ completely] out ofthe woods--
Pam Hobbs: -- went in there. And I thought daddy was in there a little bit too long, Interviewer: And then you -
and so I was going to go in and find him. And there was a full moon
out that night, so I could see as I walked in there without a flashlight. Pam Hobbs: -- and was watching me.
And there was a certain point that I got to that a fear had come over·me
like I ain't never felt. It's like the hair is .tanding up on my arms. And I
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Porn and Terry Hobb. Interview (I of2)
Page 42
Page 43
Interviewer: And it was •• God was watching? That's why 1·1 -- that's why I asked, Terry Hobbs: And I ain't scared of nobody.
is it just keeping you safe?
Intervicwer: Ycab.
Pam Hobbs: Mm·bmm.
Terry Hobbs: And my hair starts standing ••
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: You had the same experience.
Interviewer: Yeah. So, I-I just [unintelligible] about gettiog up through the night to
that point. So then, at this point, your dad comes back, right? Or did he Terry Hobbs: I did.
go on - did you go on home, and did he keep [crosstalk]?
Interviewer: Wow. Well, that night •• yeah, and people have _. you know, people
Terry Hobbs: He stayed. talk about a sixth sense you have, like [if} [unintelligible] in perception
runintelligible] -
Interviewer: So, he stayed. And you're still --
Terry Hobbs: Just a few feet from where I stopp.ed was that ditch that they were
Terry Hobbs: At one point, ine, David, and her dad •• my father-in-law - hooked up, found in.
and we came into the woods from the service road side. And walking .
straight back to the pipe, there's a trail·· there was a trail that cut offto Interviewer: . [Crosstalk].
the left, and David and her dad kept walking back that way, and I took
offdown that trail. Interviewer: Well, if you •• ifyou were - you were on the service road, the-the·the
path you're talking about isn't - it's .- it doesn't run right along that
Interviewer: Yeah. ditch, because the - uh, I know what you're talking •• I know what
you're talking about.
Terry Hobbs: And it seemed like the further I went down that trail, the scarier •• the
more scared I got. Terry Hobbs: I think there was a blue beacon (truck wash] -
Interviewer: Yeah. Interviewer: Yeab, I know the geography of it pretty well.

Pom ond Terry Hobb.lntervlew (IoU)

Pege44 Pom ond Terry Hobbs Intervle", (1 o(2)
Pege 45
Terry Hobbs: -- where you could walk straight past the blue beacon all the way back
to the pipe.
Interviewer: Basically from the pipe, there's a path that goes in [unintelligible] what
you were going down, right? Did you cross the [pipe]?
Interviewer: I know where you're talking about. I know what path you're talking
about.
[Crosstalk]
Terry Hobbs: But then there's a path, as I was saying, that cut offto the left -
Terry Hobbs: She [unintelligible] the pipe.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: And your path ultimately merges with that pipe, with that same path
that comes from the pipe bridge and goes right to the ditch. Because
Terry Hobbs: - toward the ditch where they really found [crosstalk].
[unintelligible] -
Interviewer: It's kind of what we were talking about yesterday, when he said that
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] in the service road, it cut off to the [east].
there'was a way through there that's now [offthe road].
Interviewer: Vb-huh.
Interviewer: You're not -- you're not talking about-- you-you're not talking about --'
you didn't walk through that [blue] beacon area to get to the path,
Terry Hobbs: And went straight to that ditch.
right? You're talking about -- 00, you -- okay. So, you --
Interviewer: And you had the same fear.

Terry Hobbs: [Where-where] [unintelligible] came back to the pipe-
Terry Hobbs: I got so scared I couldn't walk.

Interviewer: Okay. And then there's a path thot's from [unintelligible]--
Interviewer: That's that area that's [gone].

Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] -
[Crosstalk]
Interviewer: I know where it is, yeab.
Interviewer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Terry Hobbs: -- to go left.
Pam aad Terry Hobb, Interview (IoU) Pam and Terry Hobb, Interview (1 of 2)
Page 46 Page 47
Terry Hobbs: But that's where the-the ••

Pam Hobbs: There's just a certain point of as you go in, and you could go up like a
Interviewer: Right, where the •• where the bodies were, yeah. hill, and then you go the other way to go to the pipe. As I corne up on •
• where the hill was, that's when [that fear] [crosstalk] --
Interviewer: So, so the night goes on. No luck. Some of you guys are still kind of
going back and looking [crosstalk]. Interviewer: Now, did your dad corne back then, or did he stay out and send you on
home? Your-your·your dad, did he stay out there at that point
Interviewer: What time was that that you got .- had that scare? searching?
Terry Hobbs: Vb, I'd say around -- after midnight, around 2:00. Between midnight Pam Hobbs: He was with his truck .-
and 2:00.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: And what time was it for you, Pam? Do you remember roughiy?
Earlier? Pam Hobbs: -- and he was thinking to come and get me.
Pam Hobbs: Probably about 10:30 or so. Interviewer: Okay.
Interviewer: Yeah. And that was about _. ub, it was when your dad had gone in by Pam Hobbs: And I was [on the road] back to the truck.
himself, and she went looking for him [unintelligible] and was
approaching the pipe, and under the full moon. Interviewer: Yeah.
Pam Hobbs: I didn't get in that far. Pam Hobbs: When I was walking, I seen daddy coming back [crosstalk].
Interviewer: Not even that far. Interviewer: [Crosstalk].
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk]. Interviewer: So, things had gotten a lot quieter by this time, like when you're
looking.
Interviewer: Right at the edge and then some.

Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (I of2)

Page 48 Pam and Terry Hobbs IaterVIew (I of2)
Page 49
[Crosstalk] Terry Hobbs: And David.
Interviewer: Yeob. interviewer: - David, Jacob, [crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs: They ended their search. Terry Hobbs: And her family.
Interviewer: About what time? Interviewer: Did - and you never saw any police offi~ers out that night after
midnight searching? [Never one]?
Terry Hobbs: Well, it was around 2:00 or 3:00.
Terry Hobbs: That's probably [crosstalk].
Interviewer: Yeob.
Interviewer: That's insane. lbat'sjust crazy.
Interviewer: When you were aware of like Mark? Did you run into him searching
off and on maybe like during the night? Terry Hobbs: And I probably made two or three trips down there. [Unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: Well, during the night, we would cross paths somewhat. Interviewer: So, the whole time as you were going around searching, you're going
back to the police --
Interviewer: Like either in the woods or [unintelligible] groves?
Interviewer: Going back to the police.
Terry Hobbs: Yeob, driving around.
Interviewer: •• police station, and you're telling them, "We've been everywhere.
Interviewer: And then at a certain point after midnight, Mark and Melissa had gone We've looked everywhere, and nobody's seen anything. But people
home. You know that. You had seen them leave, or - saw these boys go into" -- did •• were you telling them then that people
had seen the boys go in the woods, "and we can't find them?" That's -.
Terry Hobbs: Right. Well, they told us they was going to go home.
Interviewer: Did you get .• did you get testy at times? I mean, were you getting
Interviewer: And-and it ,was just you, Jacob •• loud and getting, you know -
Pam ond Terry Hobbs Interview (I ofz) Pam ond Terry Hobbs Interview (1 0(2)'
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Terry Hobbs: They made us leave one time. Interviewer: He-he was working the desk? Was it -- what was it - what -- was it
one guy who was like continually the guy shoving you away?
Interviewer: They made you leave? I'm sorry, That's the kind of thing that just rna--
upsets me. It just makes me mad. It just makes me really mad. Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] the same one. We kept going down there.
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk]. We went down there [unintelligible], you know, and we Interviewer: Usually-usually there:s like -- in a big police station, there's like a desk
[unintelligible]. sergeant or somebody just kind of out in front who talks to people.
Interviewer: I know. And your [crosstalk] - Terry Hobbs: \Vell, somebody was trying -- didn't somebody come up there to tell us
to go home?
[Crosstalk]
Pam Hobbs: No, I think, uh, that black officer come out there and told you all that
Interviewer: And everybody in the neighborhood's doing it, and if they won't come Dave was at the police station, and he wanted to come to our house,
and you all said, ''No, we'll go to the police station."
Interviewer: He's-he's not coming home. Interviewer: Told you he was -- he was there?
Interviewer: Is it [unintelligible]? Did you get a sense the cops were all off Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible] heard [unintelligible].
somewhere else just on patrol, wouldn't be bothered?
Interviewer: Ub, uh, uh. Right, right, right.
Terry Hobbs: I didn't see them, so I don't know what [crosstalk].

Interviewer: And she said she drove through town and didn't see any police.
Interviewer: So, he had showed up at a certain point.
. Interviewer: You don't remember who it was that sent you away, do you?
Terry Hobbs: Yeah, because [unintelligible] thought he might [unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: He was a black officer. Vb, I don't remember his name.
Pam aad Terry Habbs Interview (1 oeZ) Pam aad Terry Hobbllntervlew (1 oeZ)
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Interviewer: So, they •• then somebody called him, and then when he heard they
were missing you came [down] with him. Had you seen - had he been Terry Hobbs: Not until the next day.
seeing little Stevie much lately •• at that time? Because he didn't •• I
had heard that he was kind ofnot really in touch with you guys much· Interviewer: So, they weren't on ahift, and they were just [unintelligible] -
Terry Hobbs: Not [unintelligible].

Pam Hobbs: [He wasn't}.
Interviewer: •• detectives [unintelligible].
Interviewer: •• until all this happened.
Terry Hobbs: Wasn't it around 6:00··5:00 or 6:00 in the morning Channel 13
Terry Hobbs: Right. showed up?
Pam Hobbs: Yeah. Pam Hobbs: No, it was during school when it started, because, 00, all of us
gathered and go to the school to see maybe ifthey would show up at
Terry Hobbs: Then he started coming to the trial and getting all [unintelligible]. school.
Pam Hobbs: But not [unintelligible]. Sort oflike [unintelligible]. And, 00, I told her Interviewer: So, then it kind of ended after the night •• after the search petered out
ifshe knew how to get a hold of Steve - which I didn't know how to that night, you guys even gave up. Like, I mean, you searched pretty
get a hold of him·· I said, "Let him know that Stevie's missing, and much all night.
keep his eye out for him." And then I guess within the hour, Steve was
in West Memphis too, to get on the search and see ifhe could Terry Hobbs: We searched all night.
[unintelligible}.
Interviewer: And then you came back •• you never slept?
Interviewer: During that first night, do you guys remember if you talked to any of
the policemen that ended up being the ones that were involved in Terry Hobbs: No.
finding them, like Brian Ridge, Mike Allen, Gitchell?
Pam Hobbs: NOO·uh.
Interviewer: They were probably all asleep [unintelligible}.
Pam and Terry Hobbslntervle.. (1 of 2)

Page 54 Pam and Terry Hobb.lntervle.. (1 0£2)
Page 55
Interviewer: And you didn't sleep? You'd been in and out. So, you guys then got Terry Hobbs: Right.
together again with what, the Moores and the Byers, is it at that point?
Interviewer: Do you know how they got the word, got involved [in it]?
Terry Hobbs: The next moming, yeah.
Terry Hobbs: I mean, somebody called - 00, [was it Barbam that] called the media?
Interviewer: Yeah.
Pam Hobbs: Mark did [then].

Terry Hobbs: The Byers came back out. Todd -- when Todd [unintelligible].
Interviewer: He did -- someone he knew, or he just started -- like after he hact called
Pam Hobbs: He got in about 6:00 that moming.
for Search and Rescue and nobody showed up, then he's - did he tell
you that he was doing it just to try to get attention, to get somebody to
Interviewer: Okay. Freaking out, I'm sure. Did he -- did he come home because he [unintelligible]?
was missing, or was he [crosstalk]?
Terry Hobbs: I didn't know he had done it until we ran across the media out there.
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk] he had got home early. [Crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs: I think they called him and told him. Interviewer: Why would he - why did he call the media? Did he ever tell you why?
Interviewer: Would you know - you guys weren't around when he found out. You Terry Hobbs: Because we couldn't get no [unintelligible].
just knew that he found out, and he had to come home. So at that point,
it's-it's like the start of school time or whatever, and you guys gathered Interviewer: Because no one would act; no one was acting. So, he called.
-- and did other people from the neighborhood gather with you, or was [Crosstalk] TV station or [something].
it-
Interviewer: [Crosstalk] probably a smart move.

Terry Hobbs: [Right]. And the media was there.
Terry Hobbs: I'm not saying for sure, but it seemed like I heard that he did that.
Interviewer: And the media? So, someb9dy hact called --
Porn Dod Terry Hobbs Ioterview (I of2) Porn Dod Terry Hobbs Iotervlew (I o(2)
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Interviewer: Terry Hobbs: It was like an evil presence.

Okay. So, he never necessarily told you. You're not -- you don't
remember. But about that morning, you guys gathered up at your - in
Interviewer: -- did that stick with you in feeling like you needed to go back, like
front of your houses, or did you--
that was the place?
Terry Hobbs: At the school.

Terry Hobbs: To me, it felt like I didn't want to go back.
Interviewer: So, you all kind of converge at the school. Had you planned it, or you
Interviewer: You just didn't want anything to do with it.
just kind of all turned up there?
Terry Hobbs: There's 0 reiJr out there like you've never run across. And I didn't want
Terry Hobbs: Well, we knew that jf we hadn't found them by the _. uh, that night,
-- I told her dad and David about it. They didn't know what to think
that maybe they'd show up at the school.
about it, and we didn't go back.
Interviewer: But [unintelligible] independently came up With that? Mike showed

Interviewer: Was it sort of a fear of - do you think now, looking back, it's partly
up, and [unintelligible] the Moores had showed up.. Because that's
maybe a fear of what you might find, or just a fear of the whole _. the
where you all had gone -- the kids all went.
terror of what can happen?
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk], and all ofthem said, "Well, [crosstalk] school, and see if
Terry Hobbs: You know, I [crosstalk] a preacher [unintelligible] people [they called]
[unintelligible] come to school."
[unintelligible].
Interviewer: And so, you all get there, and there's the media who also heard that
Pam Hobbs: Mro-bmm.
these kids have been missing all night. And then what happened at that
point?
Terry Hobbs: And' you see people praying, casting evil spirits out. I've seen that
done.
Terry Hobbs: They didn't show up.
Interviewer: Yesb.
Interviewer: Your -- did you have - after both of you had that experience of fear
going into the woods --
Terry Hobbs: It's-it's like that presence of evil.
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intervl." (1 0(2) Pam and Terry Hobb'lntervle" (I or2)
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Interviewer: So, you guys are all at the school at this point. The kids don't show up.
Interviewer: Yeah. Can you sort of remember like the ne - the next day, and-and into that
night?
Interviewer: And that's what you felt?
Terry Hobbs: Search and Rescue started after the media got involved.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: And you -- and you didn't share that with [unintelligible]-
Terry Hobbs: Search and Rescue and police officers --
Interviewer: You felt it, and-and --
Terry Hobbs: Everybody started showing up.
Interviewer: Did your dad feel it?
Interviewer: At the school or at your houses? I mean, where [crosstalk] -
Terry Hobbs: Well, I don't know if [unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: Just in the neighborhood.
Interviewer: Did your dad - you know, did that happen - I mean, the same
experience? Interviewer: So, [unintelligible] -- so, [unintelligible] is like knocking on all the
doors --
Interviewer: [I got to hand it] to Mark, [man]. That was the thing to do, you know?
Interviewer: Yeah. "[I] just couldn't get a reaction [out of -~ and I'll do it]," you know?
Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible] when only I cut down the path. Ijust seen a path there, Terry Hobbs: Maybe it will.
and I just started walldng it.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Pam aad Terry Hobb, Interview (1 0(2) Pam and Terry Hobb, Interview (1 o(2)
Page 60 Page 61
Terry Hobbs: That got some -- Terry Hobbs: [Or] they had them head detectors on.
Interviewer: That got some -- got some response qWck. Interviewer: So that was Search and Rescue from-from Memphis.
Mm-hrnm. Terry Hobbs: Memphis carne over.

Terry Hobbs:
Interviewer: And Crittenden County also.

Interviewer: Mm-hmm.
Terry Hobbs: And boats.

Interviewer: And [Abby] --
Pam Hobbs: Yeah.

Interviewer: [Unintelligible].

Interviewer: And so, then that morning while they were all out searching, what
were you two doing?
Interviewer: And that's what Crittenden County was doing? So, you think it was
Memphis PD and their helicopters? And that went on all day, sort of
just searching.
Interviewer: Just-just looking around for evidence?

Terry Hobbs: Up until [crosstalk]. Didn't they find them around 2:00?
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk], looking, [unintelligible].

Pam Hobbs: [Unintelligible] what time they found them. ! don't know exactly
when.
Interviewer: Asking everybody about it.
Interviewer: So, you-

Terry Hobbs: Then we -- you know, there was one point -- didn't we say, "You
know, the [unintelligible] Robin Hood from Memphis."
Pam Hobbs: But they called the search off! guess about 2:00.
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm.

Interviewer: So, you--
ram and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 oC2)

Page 62 rom ond Terry Hobbs Interview (1 oC2)
Page 63
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk]. Terry Hobbs: [Whenever] we heard that they had found some bodies, we took off
[unintelligible] --
Interviewer: So, you had encountered these detectives that morning? They had
started showing up in the neighborhood, and [you] talked to Gary Interviewer: Where were you when you' heard that? Do you remember?
Gitchell, and maybe Ryan Ridge, Mike Allen .- some of these guys?
Terry Hobbs: Where was we at?
Terry Hobbs: No.
Pam Hobbs: We was sitting at the restaurant eating, and, urn, it was the talk ofthe
Interviewer: Just Gitchell? town, and [crosstalk] ••
Terry Hobbs: [Not then]. Interviewer: Whicb restaurant?
Interviewer: Just Gitchell? Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs: Not even Gitchell. Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk].
Interviewer: So, you're just telling me -- you said you heard that they kind of started Interviewer: Yeah.
showing up --
Pam Hobbs: And, urn, the police officer said, '~Well, I think they just found three
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk]. boys. Was that your son they found?" And I said, "Ub?" And he said,
"Yeah, I think they just found three boys. But I don't know; I'm not
Interviewer: -- the police. sure." So, me and Terry went out, and we go to the school. And
somebody from the school -- and I don't even know who it is -- that
Terry Hobbs: They're [unintelligible]. We didn~ know none of them. runs all the [unintelligible] they found three boys. [Crosstalk] --
Interviewer: So, it wasn't until they found-found them and contacted you that you Interviewer: They-they're not saying if they're alive or dead? They just said
started hearing directly from people like Gary Gitchell? [crosstalk]?
Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 ofZ) Pam aDd Terry Hobbs Interview (1 of Z)
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Terry Hobbs: Right. Pam Hobbs: Saw [unintelligible].
Interviewer: Now, nre they saying where they found them? Has anybody said where Interviewer: Okay.
at that point?
Pam Hobbs: You know, [unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.
Interviewer: Had he been just .- he happened to have been hanging out down there
pain Hobbs: No. Uh-- when it happened [unintelligible] when they found them?
Terry Hobbs: Over where ,- Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible].
Pam Hobbs: Mayfair Apartments. Interviewer: And you didn't say anything. You just knew.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah. [Crosstalk]
Pam Hobbs: Yeah. That's where all the traffic and the crime scene things and all Interviewer: So, you fell-- you fen to the ground [unintelligible]?
that [unintelligible]. When we left the school and went there, and
Terry gets out of the car and I get out, and we're talking offrunning Pam Hobbs: I was kicking and screaming, "God, nol God, nol"
because we had to park quite a ways back. And we just
[unintelligible]. Interviewer: And you went past her and tried -- is this where -- is it true that I've
read that you went up there, and big Steve said, "You're not allowed in
Interviewer: [Unintelligible]. there past the police tape," and you said something like, "The hell I'm
not," and you went on in? Is that -- tell me what hap -- what you did.
Pam Hobbs: I hit the ground, started screaming.

Terry Hobbs: Yeah. I went from there to [unintelligible].
Interviewer: Because he already knew. So then you saw him -- I'm sorry,
[uniptelligible] -- Interviewer: You knew [him]? Or you just saW [unintelligible]?
Pam and Terry Hobin Interview (I of2) Pam and Terry Bobbs Interview (I of2)
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Interviewer: They - you guys got her back in the car.

Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk] that crime scene tape and said, "You're not allowed back
there." Terry Hobbs: Right.
Interviewer: And-and what did you say? Interviewer: Did you leave to take her home?
Terry Hobbs: [Unintelligible] I just almost [unintelligible]. I was sitting down on the Terry Hobbs: Well, when we got her back in the car, I [unintelligible] the crime
ground. [Unintelligible]. scene tape, [unintelligible] see Gary. I mean, it's where I met Gary.
Interviewer: Okay. Interviewer: And was Steve the one who - did he say that thing I was talking about
before? You got to the tape, he tried to tell you, "You're not supposed
Terry Hobbs: Then he told me, "What do you mean I can't go back there?" to go in." You just kind of barreled past him?
Interviewer: He said, "It's a homicide. " Terry Hobbs: [I did].
Interviewer: And that was -- that was the moment that you knew for sure. Interviewer: Pam, what was the rest ofyour day? [Unintelligible]?
Terry Hobbs: And you guys know that [unintelligible] at that point, [uninteJligible]. Pam Hobbs: [Unintelligible].
I-I didn't tell her.
Interviewer: And what was •• what was the rest of your day after that? I mean, how
Interviewer: But you - but Gary Gitchell [crosstalk]. did it-·
Terry Hobbs: Gary told me that. Pam Hobbs: Um, pretty much [uninteJligible].
Interviewer: So, you're over there [unintelligible]. Interviewer: Were you home the rest ofthe day?
[Crosstalk] Terry Hobbs: We did go back home.

Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1012) Pam aDd Terry Hobbs IDtervlew (Ion)
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Pam Hobbs: . [Crosstalk]. obviously now you know is you didn't do anything wrong .- that you
were going through, did you ever at all feel like, "Stevie, why did you
Interviewer: Yeah. go do this?" Or [unintelligible] did you sort of only feel that toward
yourself, like none ofthe three boys did you feel ani sense of, you
Terry Hobbs: Yeah. know, "You should have minded" •• or, "Why did you guys go do
that?" you know, [unintelligible]?
Interviewer: And then probably folks started coming by, and --
Pam Hobbs: I didn't hear a word you said.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.
Interviewer: I'm sorry. I just got to talk louder. I had wondered -- yeah, was sitting
Pam Hobbs: People started coming by, bringing food, you know, [unintelligible). over there. I just wondered if you had felt any frustration even toward
And families started coming in. It's just the worst day than the boys in your mind or, you know, it was just all toward your
[unintelligible) in my life. parental, yourself, that unfair thing and feeling like you should bave
never let them g07
Interviewer: Your dad was already there, right? So, you guys are both
[unintelligible]. Pam Hobbs: No. I never felt anything, you know, "It's their fault," and all that.
Pam Hobbs: Once I got home, though, uh, I went to Stevie's room, and I punched Interviewer: Yeah, yeah.
the door and [unintelligible]. You know, I was angry. I just wanted to
last out at anything. That's what I did. [Unintelligible] punch [at Pam Hobbs: They were just being little boys.
doors].
Interviewer: What are - what are some of the other moments from like that first
Interviewer: Punched the door. That was the-the same day? week afterwards that you remember? I mean, do you remember
specific things that were -- you know, go into Stevie's room, or
PllID Hobbs: Mm-hmm. [unintelligible], or phone calls -- either one [of you]. I mean, IS it·· is
it the kind of -- are·are there specific things that you remember that
Interviewer: Did you ever on any·any part of yourself -- you know, you're -' you being moments ofthat week that were·· that stick out in your mind?
know, you're angry at yourself or you're feeling bad - which is

Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (I of2) Pam nnd Terry Hobbs Interview (10[2)
Page 70
Page7!
Terry Hobbs: Things were just starting to happen real fast. Terry Hobbs: "I'm sorry," yeah. And didn't identify herself, and had come from them
trailer [courts] or whatever [unintelligible] our house.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: That's - their ho -- that's quite a ways away.
Terry Hobbs: Things - people were coming in our home. Jason Baldwin's mother
came to our house -- Interviewer: Did anyone else associated with the others come that you recail? You
don't know? So, [unintelligible] people. Your house is kind of.- is
Interviewer: Uh-hah. open. I mean, family - everybody's coming to help, they're bringing
food. Your-your - you guys can't work, I guess. You're just sitting
Terry Hobbs: - we didn't know her. But we -- but when we ran across her in the there, paralyzed [unintelligible], trying to help each other. Urn, and
trials, why, that's when we placed them together. when a lot's happening real fast, do you also mean were like the police
talking to you a lot? Was it that kind ofthing? Or was it just funeral
Interviewer: And why did .- and you don't know why she came to your house? preparation? What?
Terry Hobbs: No. Terry Hobbs: Wasn't no funeral, because they kept them down at Little Rock .-
Interviewer: That's very peculiar, [very]. Interviewer: Right.
Terry Hobbs: She just came among all the people who came to say, "I'm sorry about Terry Hobbs: -- for a while. But, uh, it was the City Council, the mayor, people from
your child being" -- the town coming by. We didn't know nobody other than family. We
didn't know what to think, or who to talk to, or nothing.
Interviewer: Did you remember talking to her when she came?
Interviewer: Did the police talk to you about your son in that first week or two? I
Terry Hobbs: Mm-innm. [Unintelligible]. mean, did you see - do you remember who you spoke to in the police?
Interviewer: She just came to say -- Terry Hobbs: When was it that we started going down there for .- when they would
call us down there - that first week?
Pam and Terry Hobb. Intervle.. (1 of 2) Pam and Terry Hobb. Intervle.. (10£2)
Pagen Pag.73
Pam Hobbs: Was it - yeah, it was in the first week. Terry Hobbs: No, he told me.
Interviewer: That's when they wanted to lmow where you were, and what - you Interviewer: Db, because he lmew that they had blown it.
know, they're doing their investigation.
Terry Hobbs: And he also made the statement [unintelligible] to the police
Pam Hobbs: I [crosstalk] one that carne to the house and was questioning us, and he department, "You should've called me."
was saying that there will be a time that ifthey [have-have] blood and
hair and all that kind of stuff, [unintelligible]. And then, you lmow, I Interviewer: So, nobody had let him lmow, and he didn't lmow until he says -- until
was going through, "This one's done it, that one done it," you lmow the next morning when the - everybody was being called it, it became
[crosstalk] anybody who -- -- I guess he came to work or whatever, and they said, "Look, there's
these kids that have been missing all night. n And that's when they got
Interviewer: "Have you looked at so-and-so? I think he might have done it," or on it.
[whatever].
Terry Hobbs: [Crosstalk).
Interviewer: You were just -- you were just losing it at that point.
Interviewer: This is a -- this is a part of the story I didn't lmow. I didn't -- I didn't
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hmm. lmow how hard you had tried to get the police to get out there and
look. And that sounds like that was your whole night. Your whole
Interviewer: They were just trying to say, "Cairo down. We're do -- we're doing the night was mostly [crosstalk].
best we can." I mean, "We're looking into it." Did you all express any
of your anger that they had not been involved that night, Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk] the police department about what [unintelligible]. On the
[unintelligible]? Did you feel an anger at them that-- fir~ day in court, they roade roe leave the courtroom because I think
[unintelligible] saying that cops just had a legal way to be corrupt. You
Terry Hobbs: Gary Gitchell roade the statement to the police officers, "Not one of lmow, I was just saying things aloud.
you guys deserve to wear that uniform."
Interviewer: Yeah.
Interviewer: He said that to them? You were there when he said that?
Pam aDd Terry Hobbs Interview (1 0(2) Pam and Terry Hobbs Interview (1 0(2)
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Pam Hobbs: And, "They're getting people's drugs, and going over here and smoking
it," you know, just doing that. And, uh, Steve took off -- Stevie's dad [End of recorded material]
took offrunning towards Damien, trying to get to him. And when he
did that, all the cops started grabbing Steve. And I jumped up and
screamed, "Yeah, [why don't] you like [get] daddy [unintelligible] help
us search for our child!" And the judge told me if! couldn't contain
myself, get out of the courtroom. So, I got up and got out ofthe
courtroom.
Interviewer: Did you feel any sense of - because you talked about getting drugs
from people, this and that, you know -- did you feel any sense of - did
police seem maybe not, you know, not confident or corrupt or
anything before this happened to you? What was your impression of
the police before this? Obviously this made you angry.
Terry Hobbs: We never had no run-ins with them.
Interviewer: Mrn-hmm. And you hadn't heard anything about that, about --
Pam Hobbs: [Crosstalk] -- yeah, we did.
Terry Hobbs: [Remember], prior to this happening --
Pam Hobbs: When that come out, I think shortly afterwards [crosstalk].
Terry Hobbs: -- they was under investigation for corruption.
Interviewer: Yeah.
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intention (2 of 2)
[Beginning of recorded material]
Male Voice: We had heard that after the slllte police were looking into him.
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intention (2 of 2)
Terry Hobbs: Yeah, no, I know about all that stuff.
Male Voice: Urn,okay.
Terry Hobbs: I mean, it's a-it's a-it's a-it's a, you know, that police department was a
messed up department in a lot of ways, but. ..
>')~W Male Voice: So that week, so you're getting some, 00, [Brownridge] comes out, you
guys are going in --
Terry Hobbs: (Stao Birch].
Tigerfish" Oh, Stao Birch, okay.

"
Transcribing.Editing Male Voice:
203 Columbus Avenue' San Frnnci'co 94133 Pam Hobbs: [Not a day go bys].
toU-free 877-TlOERPlSH
WW'W.dgerlbh.com
Male Voice: And you guys are going in, urn, occasionally to talk to them and
they're just saying, "This is what we're goona need, n and they're asking
~
you about your diet. AIe they showing you pictures of anybody? Did
they do anything like that?
~ m
><
:r: Terry Hobbs: No, they's wantin' us to give them pictures of --
-
m
=i
Pam ond Terry Hobbs Iotentlon (2of2)

Psge2 Pam and Terry Hobbs Intention (2 of2)
Page 3
Male Voice: Ofthe boys. Male Voice: You felt it immediately.
Terry Hobbs: -- the boys. Pam Hobbs: I had heard someone say that, "We've been trying to tell the police that
they've been doing Satanic rituals back there for yenrs and they won't
Male Voice: But they weren't, like, saying, "Here's-do you recognize any ofthese [pay any attention to it]," so right then I started-
people?" --
Male Voice: So you heard it that-that night _
Terry Hobbs: No.
Pam Hobbs: - [unintelligible].
Male Voice: -- or do any ofthat stuff yet?
Male Voice: - from one ofthese people coming out and talking, like, from the
Terry Hobbs: [unintelligible] identified them by pictures. Mayfair apartments --
Male Voice: At what point,'urn, at-how far after the discovery of the bodies was it Terry Hobbs: Right.
that you started hearing that it was maybe somehow connected to the
occult Or to Satanism or to that sort-or any of that kind of stuff. Was it Male Voice: - or from the neighborhood or whatever that __
soon after or was it a long ways, a'iong time after?
Pam Hobbs: [unintelligible],
Terry Hobbs: The media --
Male Voice: _. that's been going on. And what was the church that you were a part
Pam Hobbs: [Actually] [l said it that day]-- of then or were you involved in --
Terry Hobbs: -- [there the media] -- Pam Hobbs: [Mount Jersey].
Male Voice: You said it that day? Male Voice: -- that it was-it-that-you were just weren't really-that wasn't a big thing
in your life --
Pam Hobbs: That day .-
Terry Hobbs: Nope.
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intention (1oU) ram and Terry Hobbs Iatentlon (1 nU)
P.ge4 Page 5
Male Voice: -- at that time. Pam Hobbs: [psycho Witch Hunt] or something like that, I think.
TenyHobbs: So during the trials, you know, during the [Dnmien Eccles'] Male Voice: But you-had you, urn-what was it about that-
counselors, they're testimony, you know, and probably a little bit
before that, during the trials is when it-they started bringing in all this TenyHobbs: [unintelligible] thought that was mythical, we didn't know.
Satanism and the media prior to the trial --
Male Voice: Thought that the town-the-the-thought what, specifically?
Male Voice: Right.
Teny Hobbs: That there was a-a church over there, [Todd Moore] is pastor, we
TenyHobbs: -- started bringing in all this Satanism stuff -- thought they -- Pam carne up with this - kept thinkin' his church th-
they killed 'em at the church --
Male Voice: So did you hear ,that as a-a rumor brewing in the town? Thars part of
what we're wondering, like, did that -- Male Voice: Right.
TenyHobbs: We [thought] the same thing, -- Teny Hobbs: --took 'em out there and dumped 'em, [unintelligible] --
Male Voice: -- start to be things you heard -- Male Voice: Why-why Todd-why Todd Moore's church?
TenyHobbs: -- there was a movie one time about something like that and we had TenyHobbs: Well, I dunno. Ask her.
thought it, didn't we?
Pam Hobbs: Vb, because of being Catholic, Episcopal, or whatever, urn, I think in
Male Voice: , You remember what movie it was that made you think about it? Like, the Catholic faith that they do believe in ritualistic --
was it The Believers or some-you'd seen something about Satanic
groups doing what, like -- Male Voice: Dh--
TenyHobbs: The town. We'd seen, 00, there was a movie out one time [for our Pam Hobbs: - killing--
town.]
Pam and Terry Hobbs InteDtiOD (Z or Z) Pam and Terry Hobb, InteDlioD (Z or Z)
Page 6 Page 7
Male Voice: - right, right, right

Male Voice; _. cult worshippers in the town, like you see in movies sometimes,
Pam Hobbs: -- [that talked] [unintelligible]. where you sacrifice children who do these _
Male Voice: You just need to add a more ritualistic -- Terry Hobbs: (unintelligible] [think about it] --
Pam Hobbs: That kind-well-my no -- Male Voice: - terrible things because it's such a terrible crime you can't imagine
why else would you kill three little boys? It seems so monstrous and
Male Voice: -- kind of service -- different. And you heard it growing in the town, then, as to what rom-
and the media also, like you'd be seeing it on, what TV would talk
Pam Hobbs: - might [unintelligible] my fears, no [pain]. about. "People think it could be a, you know, ritual killing," or
something like that. Okay. So that built up as the trials were
Male Voice: Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm-I'm-I'm just wondering where-where your approaching. Were you hearing in-within all that, were you ever
head was at the time. hearing anything about, "And we think we know that-who it could be.
lt could be tliis Damien Eccles and his friends, like these teenagers," or
Male Voice: But basically, you know, it sounds like people had a1ready-in-in-the were you hearing more just a general thing about cults and devil
pa-I mean it's part ofthe-y!Ju know, it's part of the world, here, you worshipping and stuff? Do you remember?
know, we're in the Bible Belt, people talked about the possibility of
people being devil worshippers, whatever, you had kind of, more after Terry Hobbs: Gary [Dietsal] told us that it was Damien Eccles. We didn't know it
this happened, started hearing some people talking about and even before he told us.
wondering yourself ifthere could be some kind of group within the
town, like -- Male Voice: When was this?
Terry Hobbs: Right. Terry Hobbs; But 1--
Male Voice: - maybe there was some kind of -- Male Voice; At the arrest or before that?
Terry Hobbs: We thought that Terry Hobbs; At the arrest. When he called us and told -
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intention (2 012) Pam and Terry Hobbs Inteatton (2of2)
Page 8 Pnge9
Male· Voice: Yeah, 80 you really hadn't heard any of those names until they called Terry Hobbs: -- you don't kill my kid or I'll kill yours, or you.
you and said, "Are you sitting down?" That whole thing you told us
about, and then they said, "We think we have it; it's three teenage Male Voice: Yeah.
boys, here's their names." You-how do you know them? And you said,
"I've never heard of 'em." You Imow, okay. Terry Hobbs: You know? That comes in your brain.
Male Voice: Did you feel a lot of relief when you heard there-there was an arrest? Male Voice: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: Probably confusion, 1don't Imow about relief. Terry Hobbs: There's nlI kinds ofthings -
Male Voice: And you did-you didn-didn't make you feel any better? Male Voice: Oh, I mean, ifI-if-if! were in your shoes --
Terry Hobbs: But we still didn't know who it was .- Male Voice: It would be the hardest thing not to do.
Male Voice: Right, Male Voice: -- that wa-thars all I'd think about. That's all I would think about, I-I
just Imow, you Imow, ood that's not-doesn't make it good -
Male Voice: And anger, but you don't have a face to put it with.
Male Voice: And that eats you -
Terry Hobbs: You just woot to kill him.
Male Voice: -- [unintelligible) you do.
Male Voice: And that's why you said, "1-1 want to see him," right? 1mean, you're
like, "Those names don't mean anything to me and 1feel all this anger Male Voice: _. up from the inside. It's like if you come to this forgiveness thing,
~O," .... we've.talked about that too, that the hardest thing-the first thing you
only imagine is that all you wanna do is-you get obsessed with
Terry Hobbs: [unintelligible) there's a Wng they called revenge .- destroying the people that took, you Imow, that did that to your child,
'cause you can't imagine anything else. But --
Male Voice: Yeah,
Pam and Terry Hobb. InlentlDn (2 DfZ)

Pam and Terry Hobb. Intenlion (Z ofZ)
Pagell
Page 10
Terry Hobbs: . And at the same time, you know, look at the innocence. Everybody on Terry Hobbs: [unintelligible].
our side was innocent -

Male Voice: •• but-if-ifyou·ifyou don't mind me asking is it·is it·was it mostly
Male Voice: Yeah. alcohol? Was it mostly drugs? Was it both?
Pam Hobbs: Vb, really neither one, it just .-

Terry Hobbs: -- arid you [drug] right into something like that--
Male Voice: Oh you·you wasn~-you wasn't •.

Male Voice: Yeah.
Pam Hobbs: -- it [unintelligible).

Terry Hobbs: - not know which way to go.
Male Voice: -- you wasn't so much about substance, you weren't -

Male Voice: Nobody --
Pam Hobbs: Nub ub, not a·I was-I was .-

Terry Hobbs: [What to do?]
Male Voice: - doing a lot of, ub, drinking too much.

Male Voice: -- nobody could eyer deserve to .-
Pam Hobbs: - doing no drugs and alcohol.

Terry Hobbs: Who to trust?
Male Voice: But that wasn't a·that wasn't -

Male Voice: Yeah, you're just living your life and this happens. So, okay, well
that's-that took us through the [nine) in the first week, so basically the
Pam Hobbs: Nub 00, [unintelligible] --
weeks then turned into more weeks, meanwhile you're going through
that six-six, seven months ofjust -
Terry Hobbs: We [has] the prescription drugs.
Pam Hobbs: [unintelligible).

Male Voice: Yeah. Was that mostly what the drugs were? Just taking too many of
those, or were you, I mean...?
Male Voice: •• you're losing it, you guys are trying to hang in there .-
Pam and Terry Hobb, Intention (Z oCZj Pam and Terry Hobb, Intention (Z oCZj
Pogo 12 PBge 13
Pam Hobbs: I-just think at-that at the state of the mind I wanted to •• Pam Hobbs: - [unintelligible] start eating.
Male Voice: It was just-it was just where _. Male Voice: Yeah.
Pam Hobbs: -- [unintelligible]. Pam Hobbs: Urn, then I started writing, uh, writing on my book and things like that,
urn, but sleeping a lot and things like that, and just [unintelligible]
Male Voice: •• head was. much out front, away from everybody _•
Pam Hobbs: I don't think other drugs and alcohol played a major, real big role in Male Voice: Yeah. Did you ••
my-
Pam Hobbs: - [unintelligible] how much they [unintelligible].
Male Voice: And what·and·and what were _.

Male Voice: _. did yOll go back to work at all or did you just -
Pam Hobbs: .- in my actions.

Male Voice: [unintelligible].
Male Voice: You just self·medicated.

Pam Hobbs: Not 'til after the trials were over with.
Male Voice: •• you doing, mostly, with your time, duiing those six months? I mean,
were you sleeping a lot? Were you, you know·· Male Voice: So, then you were up-part of the time YOll'd be up with your family and
stufflike that, or were you mostly staying ••
Pam Hobbs: At times ••

Pam Hobbs: [unintelligible] part of the time, yeah.
Male Voice: - you-you weren't eating .•

Male Voice: - [unintelligible]. So you basically moved out, then. And the town·so,
_. I would sleep but .- at that point, the town was full ofrumors, full of craziness, but you just
Pam Hobbs:
had to get away from it and go be with your family.·
Male Voice: _. if you [say if! were you].

Male Voice: Andwhere-
Pam aDd Terry Hobbs Intention (2 o(2) Pam and Terry Hobb.lntentloo (2 o(2)
Pag,14 Page IS
Male Voice: -- and try to protect [unintelligible). Terry Hobbs: [unintelligible).
Male Voice: _. where were you working at the time? Male Voice: -. to·to, uh, to stores --
Terry Hobbs: [MinterJIce Creom company. Male Voice: Stores.
Male Voice: Okay, and ba-you-you had to keep working, right? I mean, somebody Male Voice: -- and stuff'l
had --
Male Voice: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: Right

Male Voice: Okoy. And how did-how did people at work, I mean, how did people
- to keep paying the bills. talk to you or act arouod you? I mean...
Male Voice:
[unintelligible] kept driving back and forth to work. Terry Hobbs: They was .- they killed me kindness. I've never been overwhelmed
Terry Hobbs:
with generosity -
Male Voice: Right. And you were driv-wha-ub, were you driving a truck-tru-an ice
creom truck at the time, or were you...? Male Voice: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: - I quit my job. I went to my boss and soid, "Look. I-you know, I hod
Terry Hobbs: Right.
a 110 customers I couot on every week, and I've been doing this for
years, and when they found out it was us, [but) the people ofmy
Male Voice: Okay.
customers just, they wouid-everyone one of them would come up and
I'd go in the stores and sell them ice cream and come up and gmb me
Terry Hobbs: Not a van, but 0 truck.
and hug me, n _.
Male Voice: Right.

Male Voice: Oh.
Male Voice: Like delivering --

Pam and Terry Hobbs Intention (2 o(2) Pam and Terry Hobbsl.lenllo. (2 of 2)
Page 16 Pagel?
Terry Hobbs: -- "and cry, make me cry, and that went on until it just was killing me."
Male Voice: Does it--
Male Voice: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: -- nice.
Terry Hobbs: I went and told my-John, my boss, I sRid, "I gotta quit."
Male Voice: Tbis is jumping out of the S'!ory, but, you know, it's like I-I-I've cried
Male Voice: You juS'! didn't want - on more than one occasion thinking about your son, and I'm one of
thousands.
Terry Hobbs: [Didn't want it). SRid I can't Inke it. They're too ojce to me.
Male Voice: Yeah.
Male Voice; Right.
Male Voice: Does that comfort you now? Do-do-does it mean something to you
Terry Hobbs: [unintelligible] ahowered me with love .- thaI so many people care about Stevie and thaI-that he's such a part of
people's memory? Does that ••
Male Voice: [unintelligible].
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.
Terry Hobbs: - and I can't [help it).
Male Voice; .- mat-is that meaningful to you?
Male Voice: And everyone else's grief and feelings over this, you know, even
though you don't-they don't think they're doing that in many ways, Terry Hobbs: We went up here to [Bryant's) breakfast house here the other day, get
'cause they feel stuff _. some breakfast. We walked in, me and Pam walked in, and that lady,
uh, behind the cash regimer, tell 'em what she told you.
Terry Hobbs: I --
Pam Hobbs: She remembered who I was and, urn, I was tellin" her about meeting
Male Voice: _. they're using-you become their place where all their grief has to go John Walsh, she was telling me about a mary that John Walsh had in
to, and you're like, "I can't carry everybody's." the paper and I was telling her about me meeting John Walsh and John
Walsh telling me I was a lady with a lot of courage, not to give up,
Terry Hobbs: Right. And there just trying to be -- and, ub, she told me that I really was.
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intenllon (2 of 2) Pam and Terry Hobbs Intention (2 of 2)
Page 18 Page 19
Male Voice: Is he your colwnnist who writes for the local - Male Voice: - arrested the boys.
Terry Hobbs: America's Most Wanted. Terry Hobbs: - [unintelligible] and it's just, we still hear people talk about it.
Male Voice: Db, John Walsh, you mean-- Male Voice: See, now that-I think that, you know, it's funny, because I think that
yeah, you know, the docwnentaries and the whole West Memphis
Male Voice: Yeah. Three thing, it's a-it's obviously a big part of what gets people's
interest, but I just-I think there's something about, you know, seeing
Male Voice: - [unintelligible], I'm sorry. I didn't think about him for a minute. those-seeing the photographs of, you know, of-ofyour-of your boy
and-and Chris and Michael --
Male Voice: No, 'cause ofWal-'cause--

Male Voice: [unintelligible] terrible.
Male Voice: I know you guys --

Male Voice:. - you know, that you just see those pictures of, you know, fresh face,
- this-this-this show -- you know, happy kid and -

Male Voice:
- may even benefit. Terry Hobbs: He only has five haircuts.

Male Voice:
Male Voice: [unintelligible] but actually this.,one -

Terry Hobbs: Right.
Terry Hobbs: Yeah.

Male Voice: -- they did a bit on this-on this story --
Male Voice: -- is so precious. This one I just kept on looking at. Ob, precious
Male Voice: Yeah.
picture. I want to see more pictures of him if you [have some].
Male Voice: -- before they-before they, uh --

Terry Hobbs: [Yeah] [unintelligible]--
Terry Hobbs: When we heared this -

Pam aod Terry Hobbs loteotloo (2 otl) Pam and Terry Hobbs Inteotlon (2ofZ)
Page 20 Pnge21
Male Voice: [unintelligible).

Terry Hobbs: We-we have a lot of pictures from when we had that house over there
Male Voice: We might love to -- on [McCcHin] Street·-
Pam Hobbs: I've got a-- Male Voice: Yeah.
Male Voice: -- see more. Terry Hobbs: - with the big pool and all that.
Pam Hobbs: -- picture [box]. Male Voice: Yeah.
Male Voice: We might need [unintelligible). Terry Hobbs: Got a lot ofpictures from that place.
Pam Hobbs: I don't have 'em with-with me now. Male Voice: Yeah, it's hard. This is hard for me. I mean, you know, it's just-it's hard
to-to even-even imagine that, urn, you know, this is very -- you should
Male Voice: Okay, all right. That's probably good, because I would probably lose it post this, you know, because, I mean, that, I don't know, I read this and
ifI were 10-f1ipping through-- I just think, "That's-that's what-that's what God can do." You know?
What only God can do, 'enuse if-if-if God can take you through this to-
[unintelligible] earlier-· to a point where you can write something like that, you-boy, you are
Male Voice:
strong.
Male Voice: •- those pictures.

Terry Hobbs: He wouidn't put more on you than you --
Male Voice: _ ljust at the store you talked about, I-I been kinda holdin' back··
Male Voice: Than you --
Terry Hobbs: [unintelligible].

Terry Hobbs: .- than you can bear.
Male Voice: - the whole time, you know?

Male Voice: -- than you can bear. Well, you-you two got pushed all the way to the
limit _.
Male Voice: I'm going to use your restroom real quick, if you don't mind?
Pam and Terry Hobbs Intenllon (20f2) Pam and Terry Hobbs !ntenlloo (2 of 2)
Page 22 Pogo 23
Pam Hobbs: When people tell me I'm strong and I'm courageous and stuff like that,
Pam Hobbs: Mm-hnun. I say, ''No, I'm not made of stone, now. I have my bad days, too." But
I'm glad that maybe I can be an inspiration to someone if they can just
Male Voice: -- I'll tell you that. look at me and say, "My problem's not as bad as I thought it was,"
then, you know -
Terry Hobbs: Mm-hnun.
Male Voice: Well, I think pretty much anybody can look at you and think that.
Male Voice: Oh,God.
Male Voice: Well, you know it's funny because my wife [unintelliiIble] -
Terry Hobbs: It's been, uh, something else. You hope no one else goes through, you
know? Pam Hobbs: It's worthwhile.
Pam Hobbs: I treasure that eight years I had with him. I was blessed. He was an Male Voice: Yeah. Is-it-it's-it is. I mean, you've probably been a big source of
Honor student and just the best little boy a mother could ever ask for. inspiration to a lot ofpeople, you know? And yeah, my-my, uh-rny
wife-my wife puts me in-puts my whole world in perspective all the
Pam Hobbs: And I'd say now he might not have gotten me my (unintelligible] time, 'cause, you know, we'll go to dinner some night or, you know,
Promised Land on this earth, but he's in Heaven -- and I'll be complaining, "lbls agent didn't call me' back," or "this
movie deal fell through," whatever it was, and then she's like, "Yeah,
Male Voice: Yeah. you know, uh, Jeremy, he's six years old, well, he died today, and-and
I gotta go to the funeral on Saturday," and, you know, and-and that's
Pam Hobbs: -living in my Promised Land, so. when you just realize, you know, that-that's-the parents who survive,
and-and even-and it's funny because I think that-I-I was having this
Male Voice: That's your Promise Land. conversation with-with, uh, Joyce about it, you know, and how, you
know, cancer you-cancer's a-a-is-is --
Pam Hobbs: Yep.

[Abrupt end ofrecorded material]
Male Voice: You know.my, uh, urn...

Today's date is Tuesday June the 19th 2007 the time now is 1: 12 p.m. I'm Detective Lt.
Ken Mitchell along with Detective Chuck Noles. We are currently in the Criminal
Investigation Division of the Blytheville Police Department conducting an interview with
a Ms. Jo Lynn, and you told me yesterday your name had recently changed, what is it
now?
Jo Lynn: McCallie
Mitchell: McCalhe ok. Db. we'll call you fo Lynn for this interview ifthat's ok is that
alright?
Jo Lynn: yeah that's fine.
Mitchell: Ok you know we're you understand we're doing ah recording of our interview
right?
Jo Lynn: (not audible)
Mitchell: Ok you have any objections us recording interview with you today?
Jo Lynn: say what?
Mi~chell: You have any objections us recording the interview with you today?
Jo Lynn: No.
Mitchell: Ok. Detective Noles is going to go over a form with you. It's called a Rule 2.3
Rights Form if you'll listen to him as he goes over it with you.
Noles: Jo Lynn this is a Rights Form what time you have now?
Mitchell: 1:12 p.m.
Noles: and it says you are advised that Law Enforcement Authorities desire to have you
to meet with them at the Blytheville Police Department CID for the purpose to have you
furnish information otherwise cooperate in the investigation of a prevention of a crime.
You're not legally obligated to furnish information or otherwise cooperate in this
investigation or prevention of a crime. It is entirely your choice whether to appear at the
time above noted place and time to cooperate or furnish information. I have read this
Form or have had it read to me. I understand my rights and listed above and I agree to
appear and cooperate with· Law Enforcement Authorities at the above noted place. If
that's a true statement I just need your signature right there for us. Ok, I'm mon sign right
below ya and let him sign and we'll be ready.
Mitchell: Ok as I said before Jo Lynn if you will just hold this in your hand that way and
speak clearly so you can be heard ok.
EXHIBIT
I
Jo Lynn: Ok.
Mitchell: Db what we are here to talk to you about today we're following up on a report
on the investigation into the death of the lih three boys from 1993 uh the one which was
your nephew Steven Branch. 'Uh we just got threw interviewing Pam Hobbs, and what is
your relation to Pam? \
Jo Lynn: Ok uh I was in Blytheville at the time all this happened.
Mitchell: What's your relation, how are you related to Pam?
Jo Lynn: I'm her sister.
Mitchell: Ok that was my question.
J 0 Lynn: Ok yeah just speak up to me cause ha ha ha.
Mitchell: ok yeah that's fine. Like I say just trying to (not audible). All right and in May
'of 1993 where were you living?
Jo Lynn: I was living in uh Cuter MO.
Mitchell: Is that just north of the state line.
Jo Lynn: right state line of AR and MO.
Mitchell: And uh when did you learn when did you learn about the three boys and their
deaths?
J0 Lynn: Db well the, Pam and my dad it was like uh IO 0' clock maybe 11 it was in late
hours of the night. Uh my dad received a phone call that Steve had not come in he was
missing. Uh so my dad immediately goes to West Memphis.
Mitchell: from where?
Jo Lynn: From Blytheville. Db he meets with Pam and Terry and you know he's doing
his part ta look for Steve. Uh I'm communication with thefarnily by telephone. You
know they hadn't found him looking for him, we just kinda of the family stayed up all
night, you know questioning did he get in trouble and maybe he was hiding you know
and not to get you know a spanking or something. And uh maybe we would [md him by
. morning, you know don't know what little kids do but we had fear in our minds and heart
that something bad was happening.
Mitchell: When you said Terry a minute ago who, who were you referring to who were
you talking about?
Jo Lynn: \Vhen I said say it again?
Mitchell: You said Terry, who were you talking about?
Jo Lynn: Terry?
Mitchell: Terry who were you talking about when you say Terry? ,,\
J 0 Lynn: Terry? Terry Hobbs.
Mitchell: Ok I just need you clarify on the tape when you're talking about somebody if
you mention a fIrst name I need to clarify one time and fInd out who you're talking about.
Jo Lynn: Ok.
Mitchell: Db and Terry at that time was married to your sister Pam is that correct?
Jo Lynn: yes.
:Nliu;hblhU11 did yOll come did you come to West Memphis doing that time?: .
Jo Lynn: I arrived after they found the boys. The family was all at Pam and Terry's
home. My dad was there and my mother uh my sisters, my brother they had all arrived. I
may have been the fourth or fIfth person to arrive. By that time they had it on the news
showing that they had found the bicycles the boys and it was uh a reality to us at that
time.
Mitchell: \Vhat was Pam state of mind? How was she at that time?
Jo Lynn: Db she was in like shock. The way every thing was going on we had the family
crying some of us were you know in different rooms. Db I have a sister that has epilepsy,
she had a seizure had to call paramedic ta come and tend to her. Db Pam spent that time
in Steve bedroom just holding some things of his and you know ...
Mitchell: how was Terry doing that time? Did you see him and see what was his
demeanor?
Jo Lynn: Db the way that I observed him he kinda stayed in the back ground observing
everybody, he was quiet and one thing that I noticed about it is that he was washing
laundry. He wasn't just washing the dirty laundry, he was taking clothes out of the
dresser dr(lwers and washing those~ So I mention it to my father what is he doing? You
know its just strange behavior to me. uh terry was kind of quiet and just stayed in the
back ground watching everybody.
Mitchell: Tell me what you know about, what'll ah you know about Terry? Tell me about
Terry?
Jo Lynn: He didn't show any compassion for Pam like being there being supportive you
know being by her side. He was just like when the family was gathered in the room we
would be like in the kitchen and dinning room area and he's in the living room, and he
always stays in the back ground watching. Uh he didn't volunteer to speak a whole lot
unless it was the media or the camera in his face or something like that.
Mitchell: and what I'm asking to also uh Jo Lynn is prior to this happening and I'm
talking about threw their marriage...
Ja Lynn: Prior to the
Mitchell: Early in their marriage what kind of person is Teny? Tell me about Terry.
Jo Lynn: well, ha me and my sister Pam being the closet other than my brother uh of all
the children Pam and I have always communicated. Terry married her uh when she was
going threw a divorce with her fIrst husband. Pam had just come back from Texas and a
lot6ffhingG happened, she.had·amemal.break down, Uh and he manied· her in that state
of mind. And I question you know my mom and dad aren't you concerned about this
man who's taking an interest in Pam, who is not mentally stable at this time. she had just
gone threw every thang. I did not like Terry. I felt that he was a secretive person, he
wasn't straight up he didn't communicate with us like you know we all do. And I told
him ifhe ever hurt my sister you know he would answer to me for it. And I mean to use
her for what ever reason, when they fIrst married uh I sensed jealousy of the child you
know he had just gone to his daddy's momma divorce and he's only two years old. So
she has to lay down in the bed with him at night to get him to sleep you know lay with
him. Uh Terry would get kinda of angry about it uh let him sleep by his self, ifhe cry let
him cry himself to sleep. You know you belong in the bed with your husband well, I
didn't like that I didn't like that at all. There were several events uh where we found
bruises on him.
Mitchell: On him who you talking bout?
Jo Lynn: On Steve.
Mitchell: VVhere did you fInd bruises?
Jo Lynn: On his back, leg area uh some time on the shoulder uh mom and dad kept Steve
other than when he went to school. You know they practically raised him. Uh when he
was big enough to say daddy Terry wbip me, you know he would tell these things. un
one time he used the bathroom in his underwear he was potty training and all and a little
behind with it uh and he dirtied his underwear he got terrifIed and he went and hid. My
mom and I we were looking we looked every where all around we were historical we
could not fInd this child. un we were in my mothers room she had a box of clothes in the
closet and then his foot fell out of the box. I said momma he's in there so we pull him out
he's hot, he's sweaty we're like baby what's wrong? ""What's wrong with you? Daddy
Terry gonna whip me, he's gonna whip me, I mean the kid was terrified. Well the family
question it we didn't get a lot of answers about that and so my mom and dad just kept
Steve with them. And Pam and Terry lived in Indiana. He moved her from Jonesboro first
Blytheville then Jonesboro and then Indiana. <
Mitchell: ""Where at in Indiana?
Jo Lynn: I do know that Terry, that Steve was terrified of Terry.
Mitchell: Where at in Indiana did they live?
Jo Lynn: I couldn't tell she can tell you though. Db but his father and family run uh a
restaurant well they started catfish I don't recall the name of it at this time but that's what
he would do is lUn the restaurant for his father. But it carne out that he was embezzling
money from his father, so his father kicked him out ofthe business.
Mitchell: you know what kind of hobbies or activities that Terry had?
. .....
Jo Lynn: None that I know of. He did not fish. He did not hunt. He didn't collect you
know anything uh he would get up every Saturday morning at 6 a.m. stay gone uh till 1
p.m. or so. Said he was yard selling but he never brought anything back. I always
thought he was mysterious person because me being married fourteen years my husband
we share you know everything as far as our finances, uh anything we discuss we were
friends you know as well as parents. Db Pam never knew how much money he made she
never seen a pay check stub. He did not pay bills Pam did. Pam always had ajob she paid
the bills he kept his money.
Mitchell: did you ever go visit them in West Memphis before this happened? You ever go
down to West Memphis to visit them?
Jo Lynn: Did I do what now?
Mitchell: Did you ever got to West Memphis and visit Pam and Terry(not audible)?
Jo Lynn: Oh yeah many times, many times.
Mitchell: and this is your driving from Cuter MO. to Vlest Memphis?
Jo Lynn: Awe yeah cause I've also lived in Blytheville, we when I moved to Cuter we
had a home build so that's where I was deciding at the time but I've lived in Blytheville
and Steal MO.
Mitchell: Db have you had any conversation uh with uh Terry Hobbs since Steve death,
in the years since his death uh that have uh resulted in any conversation anything being
said that uh you felt might be unusual or uh unexpected that you didn't expect to hear
from him or hear him say?
Jo Lynn: Well, he questioned me one time. He asked me did I feel that he had murdered
Steve? I asked him why are you questioning me this. He said I just wanna know. And so
I told him if you want to ask me I'm gonnatell you what I truly feel. I believe you
involved either directly or indirectly. He said well that hurts my feelings. It was a lot of \
unanswered questions. You know Terry was never question at the time (not audible) you
know they got a statement from Pam uh they question Pam never did they question
Terry. There was never any kinda of hair anything taken from him. It was like he was
always in the back ground never put in the spot like. Never question like he was the
innocent victim the father of. And he would never call Steve by his name he would call
him "the boy". Now 1. . .I didn't like that either.
Mitchell: Did you ever have any uh any thing else he ever call Steve nickname or
anything like that? .
Jo Lynn: Uh he nicknamed him frog leg because when he was young he jumped off the
side of a boat went down in the water and Terry said he looked like a frog comingup so
. _he nic.1::iiiamed him frog leg.
Mitchell: Now did you have uhwhere were you at when you had this conversation when
Terry asked you if you thought he had any involvement in this case? You remember
where you were at?
Jo Lynn: where were we at? He uh I wanna say uh this was early on after it was prior to
him shooting my brother. So I'm gonna say I lived in Blytheville at that time, and it was
within the year after Steve was ...
Mitchell: You said you had a computer (not audible) conversation here in Blytheville?
Jo Lynn: yes in my home.
Mitchell: Ok all right now have you since after that at some point did you come into
possession of some property uh that you turned over to an attorney?
Jo Lynn: uh yes.
Mitchell: Tell me how that happened and what you found?
Jo Lynn: ok uh Pam and Terry have been back and forth uh a few times during the
marriage. At one time when I was in Cuter uh this was after him shooting my brother,
Pam come to my house and stayed. At that time she had some of her belongings and in it
there was a copy of his divorce from his first wife. Db she ask me to keep it so that I
would have and he wouldn't, she cause she knew she would end up going back to him I
guess. You know it was a back and forth thang. Well, in 2004 uh Amanda called me at 3
a.m. and Amanda, Pam's daughter Pam and Terry's daughter. She calls me aunt Jo Lynn
can you 'come me? Where are you? I'm in Paris, TN. Baby what are you doing there. I'm
not going back home the child would tell me thangs from the time she was a baby up till
she was a teenager. About things that her dad would do to her, uh physical and sexual.
And me telling her I can't help you until help me help you. You have to tell this to
someone. You know I wbuld have to tum hiin in and then I can help you, otherwise I'm
not going to be able to hel~ you. So she calls me to come and get her you stay where you
are Amanda I'm 2 hours away let your mom come and get you. So she did and only on
the condition that Pam meet me halfway and her come to me. So Amanda came to me
she refused to go back home uh so that's what brought Pam to Blytheville. Uh I moved
from the home I was in in Cuter to a bigger house in Blytheville so that me and Pam
could you know share a home together. Db I called Tennessee I turned it in, they come
and investigated it. uh they interviewed Amanda they made a report and saw you know
documented. So Pam come to me I went to Memphis to move her and her things. Terry
was there we took the police with us he had all Steve belongs locked up in the trunk of
his car. so we go inside and he's lying to the Officers he say's I don't have it. I say's p.e's
got it out there in the trunk of his car. Well, the police officer asked ifhe would go out
and open up the trunk? Well, he saying yes before he could get out the door the baby
pulls drugs paraphernalia out.
Mitchell: The baby who?
Jo Lynn: Amanda, Amanda pulls out drug paraphernalia she knew where her daddy hid
it. so when uh-I let the officer know one of em she's got it in her hand Amanda. So he
was then arrested taken out ofthe house. Well that gives us the chance to pack up Pam's
belongings. Well there's a night stand next to the bed in Pam and Terry's bed room and I
open it up it had a door and there in a towel was fourteen knives different shapes, sizes
from this to little pocket knives. So I just wrapped that towel up and I put it in with the
things we were packing up. uh Pam was going threw the closet his, his belongings and
there was a fire proof lock box and we took it down and we open that box up, and the
only thing was inside that box was a partial plate that fits in your mouth where Terry had
had dental work after Steve death. This was the first set of partials, and I'm like is this not
the oddest thing I've ever laid eyes on. It's the fire proofbox that locks up and all it has
in it is the partials plates. So I wrapped that up in a napkin and I take it with me. I felt to
uh to tum it in to Brent Davis at first. I went to my father and daddy what should we do?
When I open up the towels to show daddy the knives he spotted Steve pocket knife. The
one he had given him. Uh Steve was my daddy's first grandbaby the apple of his eye and
you know, so dad got kinda of sickly I had get him a glass of water you know and to wet
his face. So daddy didn't wauna touch any of the knives uh and he thought about it and
he said well, the prosecution at this time they have a conviction they don't need anything
they probably want even test it, he said your best bet to tum it in to the defense so I called
Dan Spiddem's he met me in Cuter MO. where the Chief of Police there had a restaurant
we closed it up for two hours of that we could have enough room and privacy to do all
this. So Dan we took out all the knives and he took pictures of all of it. One of em had a
sleeve on it and he pulled it out and something fell out of the sleeve. So they had gloves
on and they just put it in a bag and you know took it with em. Db and I give every bit of
that to him.
Mitchell: \liTho all was present when you gave (not audible)?
Jo Lynn: It was uh me and Dan another guy that came with Dan, uh the Chief of Police
Merrill J 0 Stewart and his wife.
Mitchell: Who was the can you name everybody I mean by name who was there?
Jo Lynn: uh I don't know the gentleman's name that was with Dan, but it was me, Dan
Spiddem, who ever he had with him I don't know that man's name, Farrell Jo Stewart
which is the Chief of Police Ruth Ann Stewart we were all present. And later we were
out at Robin Hood Hill and we had pulled up ah rod it appeared to me uh in the shape it
was in may have been a table leg. Then after my dad looked at it he said maybe it's a
handle to a wagon an old wagon that you know that you pull. But I noticed at the end
when ever Pam pulled the stick up it was like identical to that mark on Steve head. I'm
like wait a minute, wait a minute stop let me have that. We took the stick and uh we
stopped at the store and I had it laying in the back seat and I picked it up and it hit my uh
. "f::.:;islBI'fi§.edirt come.out the other end of it; the one end Flas1ciild of-sbiap'cliRe·you'kuow.
similar to a belt buckle and it the way it was shaped the other end was hallow it was and
it had the dirt in it, it some of it fell out and I was like and by me knowing and every
thing I know about this case I know there was an irregular wound on the back of Michael
Moor's head that was a quarter inch puncher hole. So my dad being a welder and me
knowing measurement the way that I do, I'm like this is bout and half inch and it would
make a quarter inch insert. I didn't wanna disturb anything cause if it was shoved into the
ground there may have been something inside this. We took it home uh we were gonna
meet with Dan uh he asked ifI would take pictures send em over to em on my computer
and I was gonna do so. Uh Pam was back and forth to Memphis, Amanda done went back
to Terry to live with him so I just put it up in the top of the closet of the house we lived in
and right now I have the landlord looking to see if possibility if it's still there. when we
moved it was left behind.
Mitchell: in Missouri?
Jo Lynn: No it uh it at our house in Blytheville.
Mitchell: house in Blytheville?
Jo Lynn: 1024 West Gunn.
Mitchell: How long ago did you move D.·om there?
Jo Lynn: We lived there in 2004, uh I moved 2005 we lived there a year.
Mitchell: When did you contact the landlord to see if she...

Jo Lynn: today.
Mitchell: Today.
Jo L)rnn: uh Pam had asked them probably about two, two and a half years ago about it.
And t-q.ey said they looked for it but it's on a shelf high up and if you don't have a stop
ladder you can't get to the back of that closet, s,o I'm hoping it's still there. .
Mitchell: People has been living since then?
Jo Lynn: Um huh so all these things a questionable to me.
Mitchell: you were telling me on the phone something about some papers that you have
from ...
Jo Lynn: His book.
Mitchell: Tell me go threw and tell us about this. 'Who's writing is ...
Jo Lynn: it was in some of Pam's things. And it says on the front of it I believe uh Terry
Hobbs book and all so I set down and I read it. It starts out the night of May the 5th lih he
the way he words it trying to do it in a professional manner. He uses uh approximately
4:30 p.m. uh he takes Pam to work at Catfish Island uh he say's that Steve did not come
home he called him the boy. He tells about what time him and the little girl Amanda are
walking down the side walk looking for him, uh going from house to house, he tells
about meeting with a guy name David Gukoba uh Mark Byres he's giving approximate
times on this. Uh he tells his story about that when they found the boys uh and it leads all
up to the day he shot my brother. And it stops right there.
Mitchell: Is it typed? Is it hand written?
Jo Lynn: Hand written. And it starts off my name is Terry Wayne Hobbs and you know.
Mitchell: Now where's is that now?
J 0 Lynn: I have it in the storage.
Mitchell: How long have you had it?
Jo Lynn: I've had it since 2004.
Mitchell: where did you git it from?
Jo Lynn: from his belongings when we moved Pam?

:Mitchell: what that in Memphis?
Jo Lynn: Urn huh.
Mitchell: Have you shown it to anybody since then?

"
Jo Lynn: No, no uh Pam she come in later and I waq sitting on the bed reading it And I
said Pam have you ever read this? No, he never would let me read it you know he I've
looked at Pam and she was sort of a program person get up you know clean the house,
you know do her chores. Uh the children in school, Amanda was at home uh fix em
something to eat and go to work. Work all night come home and do the same routine over
and over. She never snooped in any of Terry's things she never went you know and
question anything.
Mitchell: Ok uh when did you find what year was it that you found this, this wagon
handle possibly that you're talking to us about?
J 0 Lynn: Lets see I'm gonna have to think uh I would go back to the least I'm gonna say
September 2003. Because they Terry filed divorce the divorce become final in April of
. ·2004. ·Wben the' divorce.wa:sfmaiT got Pam to sign'r was under advice from'lllTalj:jrnef" " .
.Linda
.
(not audible)
. he's in Blytheville
. AR to get Pam to enter ina contract with me the
power of attorney to protect her rights from Life Story uh the Exploitation of the children.
the comer autopsy the photographs uh that crime scene footage that's on the beginning of
that documentary Paradise Lost uh they'promise the family they would not do that. I also
have a hundred and one comer autopsy photographs; That was taken by my father at the
West Memphis Police Department when they open up the file and let every body come
in and view and look the pictures were laid out. My father had his camera and and he shot
pictures till he ran out of film and I have those pictures.
Mitchell: did you ever tell Mr. Spiddmen about the, the wagon handle?
Jo Lynn: Did I what?
Mitchell: Did you ever tell Mr. Spiddmen about the wagon handle or the bar that you
found?
Jo Lynn: Uhjust my father and me and Pam viewed this. It went up in the closet and
that's the last bfthat. uh one night Pam and I were talk and Terry this is just prior to this
last break up with em. Which brought me to Memphis I am out to breach this contract
with Dimension Film, because Pam entered into this contract at the time we were burying
my brother. So you know there's a lot going on with this but Terry was paid $12,500.00.
:Mitchell: What does Dimension?
Jo Lynn: Dimension Film?

Mitchell: Yeah what are they wanting to do?
Jo Lynn: Db their doing a film on the book uh Merritt Leveret book the Devils Knott.
They're doing ah movie and I have that contract I have every thang on that.
Mitchell: You said Terry got $12,500.00 and Pam got $12,500.00 you know minus the
attorney's fees. And right now that was in August last year he was already broke. He's
living out of his truck and he sleep in motels West Memphis, AR. he is attending the
Apostolic Church that is off next the Big Star, you know where Big Star is in West
Memphis he's with the Apostolic Church there by the next door. I tried to find him I can't
find him.
Mitchell: How uh how difficult would it be to find and to locate uh these writing you say
you have in...
Jo Lynn: just time in my storage. Uh I've got these things stored because I've been back
and forth my husband he sold his jewelry store here. He's gone into ah towing service for
West Memphis and we're about to open ajewelry store in West Memphis, but uh I'm
back and forth. So these things are stayed in the storage.
Mitchell: What towing service your husband have?
Jo Lynn: I had Pam writing uh I have Terry's.
Mitchell: No what towing service?
Noles: What's the name of your towing service?
Mitchell: What the name of your husbands towing service?
Jo Lynn: Glen Wray Towing Service.
Mitchell: Glen Wray ok.
Jo Lynn: Are you familiar with that one?
Mitchell: Yes ma'am I am. Ok uh would you be willing to give us a copy of these
writings?
J 0 Lynn: Yes I will, because I know that you're out to get a statement from him now.
What he says now and what he said then you'll have something to compare it to.
Mitchell: Exactly, exactly.
Jo Lynn: I'm dying to see what his story is now.

Noles: Can you tell us what kind of truck he's driving?
Ja Lynn: He was driving a ah is it a Dodge it's a yellow a real bright yellow we call it
canary yellow, uh it's a short wheel base sports truck. I'm gone to say it's a 2000
anywhere from a 2002, 2004 model, it has a ah cover over the uh bed of it that's where he
keeps his belongings. I know'this man is uh on drugs really bad. Uh I know of several
occasions that he was :involved~ drugs and I worked with the DEAyou know. Anything
that you blOW I could do to help them I do, and at the time that I was in Pena Scott
County doing some work I found out Terry was involved with this young man with met
amphetamine so it was crossing over back and forth. So at that time I revealed to Pam
and that was one of their fights and break ups too. He threaten my life as well, anything
happens to me I've got your number, let him come on with it. He shot my brother he can
shoot me.
Mitchell: Is there anything else you can think of that we hadn't gone over anything that
might be of interest or value or help to us in this case that we hadn't gone over with you
and you would like to tell us.
Jo Lynn: I know he still in association with Mark Byers. He clarned the knives came from
I\l,:l1:tB"Y'::;lSYOU know. Uhjust him revc:;;aliilgt;::;::ne that he was a meat cutter- at onetime
and then he just openly come out one night we were talking about how the uh Christopher
Byers was mutated and how the uh pathologist had said that the cut was so precise that if
it wasn't done by a surgeon perhaps a jeweler. Well, I'm married to a jeweler ok so I'm
like that just don't q.uit fit it. And Teny just spoke out and said well what about ah
butcher? And I'm like what? And he said well I use to work in a slaughter house. I said
well what did you do in a slaughter house? He said I dismembered animals. I said I don't
know why you're telling me this but this is enough of this conversation you know I left it
at that. Oh my God uh all I can do is just give my opinion I believe he's capable when he
sat and he had every opportunity to prevent what happen between him and my brother.
Yau know my brother was an hour away 45 minutes to an hour away and any man that
loads a gun sticks it down in his pants he knows he's fixing to pull the trigger. Why
didn't he call the police that's what there there for, you know they could have been there
when my brother amved and the hole conflict would of never happen the way that it did.
But he had made a comment to my ex-husband that he had a bullet with my brothers
name on it and my father. This is prior to this happening cause he said no man runs my
house, no man tells me what to do. He's just that kind of person he comes from that
Apostolic back ground. He's told stories about his mother abusing him sexual abuse, uh
activity with animals it was just god awful disgusting stuff.
Mitchell: You got anything else?
Noles: No, no
Mitchell: Ok I don't have any-iliing else either we're going to go ahead and close the
interview out with you it's uh 1:50 P.M. uh we wauna tell you how much we appreciate
all the cooperation from you and your sister Pam today your mom for coming up here
you know in support and uh...
Jo Lynn: well, you got my fullest cooperation and I will be obtaining all those things you
know anything I've got. Now I'm not gonna let these book writers have it they're not
getting it.
'\
Mitchell: As soon as you can find this if you would give us a call we'll make
arrangement to come back and meet with you and get a copy of it ok. I'm ah close this
interview.
Jo Lynn: and I hope for the best in this case uh I sure don't want three innocent boys
spending their life in prison for something they didn't do.
Mitchell: we're gonna go ahead and close this interview now like I said it's 1:50p.m. on
. Tuesday, June the 19th 2007.
Detective Lt. K. Mitchell/215/ Det. C. Noles/235/eac/355
Case file#
----------------------------
EXHIBIT 44
•• l'

WESTERN DIVISION
TERRY HOBBS, §
Plaintiff, §
§
v. §
§ CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM
NATALIE PASDAR, et al., §
Defendants. §
DECLARATION OF MARIE HICKS
I, Marie Hicks, declare as follows:
1. My name is Marie Hicks. I am over the age of 21 and competent to give this
declaration.
true and correct.
3. I am the mother of Pam Hobbs and the grandmother of Steven Branch, who was
called Stevie, one of the boys killed in the Robin Hood Hills Murders which
occurred on May 5, 1993. Stevie was Pam's son from her marriage to Steven
Branch.
4. My daughter Pam was married to Terry Hobbs until 2004. I believe they were
married in the mid 1980s. As a result, I have known Terry Hobbs from the mid
1980s to the present. Pam and Terry had a daughter, Amanda, in 1989.
5. Ever since the murder of Stevie, the press has been following the story of the
three boys, their murders and the trial of three teenagers, the West Memphis
Three, for those murders. After they were convicted, many people began to think
the West Memphis Three did not commit the murders. As a result, there have
been many articles written about the events and many questions raised about who
committed the crimes. There have been numerous newspaper articles, many
television news reports, and many postings on the internet, not just about the
murders, the trials and the West Memphis Three, but also about the little boys
who were killed and their families.
6. When word got out about the murders it seemed like so very many people from
around the country heard about it and were interested in Stevie and his family.
DECLARATION OF MARIE mCKS PAGEl

DECLARATION OF MARIE HtCK:s.DOC/10900361
Many people sent notes and cards to our family. President Bill Clinton sent a
letter of sympathy to Terry and Pam.
7. Right after the murders, the television show America's Most Wanted did a story
on the case that people all over the country saw.
8. About a year after the murders, Pam and Terry and my husband, Pam's father,
Jackie Hicks, Sr., went on The Geraldo Show to talk about the events of that
night, May 5, 1993, to talk about Stevie, and to talk about our family.
9. Through the years, the newspapers have kept writing about the murders, the West
Memphis Three and the families and the events surrounding the murders. Since
1993, the press has kept the story in the papers and on the television.
10. Hairs were found at the crime scene. In July 2007, the results of DNA testing
were released. The DNA testing revealed that one hair was possibly the hair of
Terry Hobbs, and one hair was possibly the hair of Terry's friend, David Jacoby.
The papers reported the results of the DNA testing.
11. About that same time, in June, 2007, the West Memphis Police Department
interviewed Terry. The papers reported that the West Memphis Police had
interviewed Terry.
12. Terry gave interviews in July, 2007 to news media. He talked about the DNA and
about whether he was involved in the murders. He said he had been questioned by
the police. I saw a good number of these articles.
13. Terry also hired a spokesman. The spokesperson gave interviews with the press
and talked about the DNA evidence and whether Terry was involved in the
murders.
14. My daughter Jo Lynn had found in Terry's nightstand a pocketknife that Stevie
used to carry with him everywhere, and that we thought he would have had with
him at the time of the murders. This made me very concerned about why Terry
had that knife.
J5. In late 2007, one of the teenagers that had been convicted for the murders,
Damien Echols went to court to try to get released based on the DNA and new
evidence. His request of the court brought even more public attention to Terry,
because his filing put forward the DNA consistent with Terry and his friend, the
knife evidence and other evidence. Newpapers and television news made reports
on the filing by Darnien Echols. I sawall this press and attention, and members of
my family were called by the news agencies for interviews and statements.
16. Terry was in the middle of all of this press starting in July of 2007 because the
DNA was consistent with his. Also, Terry told the police in his police interviews
in June 2007 that several of his relatives suspect him in the murders and the
DECLARATION OF MARIE mCKS PAGE 2

DECLARATION OF MARIE HICKS.DOC/I0900361
• t
papers reported that as well. Terry was also in the press because his spokesperson
was giving interviews and so was he.
17. I was very close to Stevie, and he wduld frequently visit me or stay overnight at
my house. On one occasion, Stevie was over at my house visiting. He had been
playing, and I went to look for him. I could not find him. Ultimately, I found
Stevie hiding in one of my closets. When I asked him why he was in the closet,
he told me he had gone to the bathroom (defecated) in his pants. Stevie told me
that he was scared that Terry would hurt him for "messing" his pants, and told me
that Terry always punished him severely when he had "accidents." Stevie told me
that Terry had locked Stevie in the closet as punishment for having such
accidents.
18. One time, Terry and his daughter, Amanda, were at my house. Out of nowhere,
Amanda announced "Daddy [Terry] sticks his finger up my butt." Terry jumped
up and grabbed Amanda and took her to another room. When they came back,
Amanda said that she had been lying, that her daddy had not stuck his finger in
rear end. I knew that a four year old would not just come up with that statement
out of the blue, if there had not been some sort of abuse.
By:~a~
Marie Hicks
iLdu!
DECLARATION OF MARIE mCKS PAGE 3

DECLARATION OF MARIE HICKS.DOC/10900361
EXHIBIT 45

WESTERN DIVISION
TERRY HOBBS, §
Plaintiff, §
§
v. §
§ CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM
NATALIE PASDAR, et a!., §
Defendants. §
DECLARATION OF JUDY SADLER
I, Judy Sadler, declare as follows:
1. "My name is Judy Sadler. I am over the age of 21 and competent to give this
declaration.
true and correct.
3. I am the aunt of Steven Branch or "Stevie," who was one of the three little boys,
murdered in Robin Hood Hills area of West Memphis, Arkansas on or about May
5, 1993.
4. Pam Hobbs, the mother of Stevie, is my sister.
5. Pam was married to Terry Hobbs. Terry Hobbs is a party in the suit, Terry
Hobbs. v. Natalie Pasdar, et aI, CV No.: 4-09-CV-008BSM. I know Terry very
well.
6. There has been a whole lot of press, newspaper and television stories, magazine
articles and internet blogs about the murder of Stevie and the other little boys,
about the trials of the teenagers who were tried for the murders, about the yvents
of that night of the murders, about the families of the victims and about the effect
on the families of all the events. Many, many newspapers, authors, television
stations, websites and others have contacted my family, and Pam and Terry in
particular, to interview them about and to discuss the murders, the trials, the
teenagers convicted and the effect of these events. Pam and Terry have both
given interviews on these topics. I remember that they have been on television
shows. I have seen Terry on The Geraldo Show and Anderson Cooper 360. I
have read numerous articles where Terry has been quoted and discussed.
7. I was very close to Stevie, and we frequently had personal, private conversations.
When Stevie was eight, I was only 15, so we were fairly close in age. Stevie was
PAGEl
DECLARATION OF JUDY SADLER.DOC/10900361
'r"'
very scared of Terry. Stevie told me on that on many occasions, Terry had locked
Stevie in the closet as punishment for things he had done. I have personal
knowledge that Terry beat Stevie on multiple occasions.
8. When Stevie had just turned 7 years old, he told me that Terry made him and
Amanda (age 3 or 4) watch pornography. When he made Amanda and Stevie
watch pornography, he would always have Amanda on his lap. If Stevie told
Terry that he didn't want to watch the pornography, Terry would lock Stevie in
the closet until about 30 minutes before Pam got home. Stevie said that Terry told
Stevie not to tell anyone what they were doing, and that if he did, Terry would kill
Stevie's grandmother (Marie Hicks), Stevie's grandfather (Jackie Hicks, Sr.) and
Pam.
9. Stevie also told me that Terry would make Stevie watch Terry masturbate.
Additionally, Terry would make Stevie sexually molest Amanda. Terry would
watch and tell Stevie what to do sexually to Amanda. These were not isolated
incidents; they were recurring from the time Stevie was six until his death.
10. I wish that I had told people about what Terry was doing to Stevie and Amanda. I
knew it was wrong. But Stevie was scared and made me promise not telL
Additionally, I was a child myself, and was scared about what would happen to
my family if I did tell.
11. Stevie absolutely hated Terry. Sometimes Stevie told me that he wished Terry
was dead because he was so mean and bad. Stevie told me that he wanted his
mother to leave Terry.
12. On one occasion in 1993, Stevie specifically told me that he wanted Pam to leave
"Daddy Terry."
13. Attached hereto as Exhibit 1 are true and correct copies of pages from Amanda's
journal, in her handwriting. In it, Amanda discusses the sexual and physical
abuse that Terry inflicted on her.
14. I am aware that Terry has hit my sister Pam in the face and that Terry shot my
brother, Jackie.
15. Terry has a horrible reputation in the Arkansas and Tennessee communities he has
lived in. He is known to be violent. He is known to carry and use guns. He has
hit my sister Pam in the face. He beat his step-son, Stevie. He is knO"WIl to use
drugs. He used drugs like cocaine, crystal methamphetamine and marijuana in
front of Stevie and Stevie's half-sister, Amanda. Terry's daughter, Amanda, has
told me that Terry has sexually molested her. Terry is frequently out of work. He
is a known gambler who often goes to Tunica with whatever little money he has.
Terry has a criminal record, and was put on probation for years for shooting my
brother.
PAGE 2
DECLARATION OF JUDY SADLER.DOC/I0900361
16. In sum, terry is not a nice person and I do not believe he has treated his family
welL In particular, I know that Terry did not treat Stevie welL As set forth
above, his public image and reputation is not good."
I declare under penalty of peljury that the foregoing is true and correct and that this
Dated: 57 ~O I 0 ~
/ I
By: Q~ hsaclWc
J y Sadie
PAGE 3
DECLARATION OF JUDY SADLER.DOC/I0900361
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-9 Filed 08/21/2009
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EXHIBIT 46

WESTERN DIVISION
TERRY HOBBS, §
§
Plaintiff, §
§
v. § CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM
§
NATALIE PASDAR, et at, §
§
Defendants. §
DECLARATION OF PAMELA MARIE HOBBS
I, Pamela Marie Hobbs, declare as follows:
1. "My name is Pamela Marie Hobbs. I am over the age of 21 and competent to give
this declaration.
true and correct.
3. On May 6, 1993, the police found three little boys, Steve Branch ("Stevie"),
Christopher Byers and Michael Moore, murdered in Robin Hood Hills (the
"Murders").
A. I am the mother of Steven Branch, one of the boys killed in the Robin Hood Hills
Murders which occurred on or about May 5, 1993.
5. At the time of the Murders, I was married to Terry Hobbs, the plaintiff in the
lawsuit entitled Terry Hobbs v. Natalie Pasdar, et al., CV No.: 4-09-CV-
008BSM. I was married to Terry Hobbs from 1986 until 2004. When I married
Terry, my son Stevie, from my prior marriage to Steve Allen Branch, was
approximately one and one-half (lllz) years old. Later, in 1989, Terry and I had a
daughter, Amanda Hobbs ("Amanda").
6. Throughout the time I have known Terry, he has had a bad reputation and
character. Specifically, he is known to me and my family to have very poor
character and reputation, and in the West Memphis, Memphis and Crittendon
County area I believe he is generally known to have a bad reputation and low
character. The following events which I describe below are only some examples
of Terry's activities which reflect upon his character and reputation.
PAGEl
7. During our marriage, Terry was a regular user of drugs. He frequently smoked
marijuana in our home and out of the house. He also used crystal
methamphetamine and cocaine.
8. Terry was violent and he hit me twice. In 1999, Terry and I got into an argument.
I insinuated that Terry had a girlfriend. As I attempted to leave the house to get
away from Terry and just drive around to cool off, Terry fought me for the car
keys. When he couldn't get the keys, Terry hit me in the face with a closed fist. I
was truly hurt, and was worried that he had broken my jaw because he had hit me
so hard. I called my family, and I talked to my brother, Kevin Hicks. I asked him
what a broken jaw felt like. My brother and parents immediately came to check
on me. I told Terry my family was coming to take care of me and I believed that
Terry would leave the house. Instead, Terry waited outside for them, sitting on
the tailgate of his truck.
9. When my family arrived, there was a fight between Terry and my brother, Jackie
Hicks, Jr. As they were fighting, Terry pulled out a gun and shot Jackie in the
abdomen. He was moving to again shoot Jackie and my father started walking
toward Terry. At that point, Terry pointed the gun at my dad and said "You'd
better not go any farther; I'll shoot you, too, you fat motherfucker." My father,
Jackie Hicks Sr. was able to grab the gun from Terry's hands. My brother was
severely injured as a result of the gunshot. He had to have over ten surgeries.
The doctors first decided to leave the bullet where it was lodged because they
thought it would kill him to remove it, but later it caused a bowel obstruction, so
they removed the bullet. After that surgery to remove the bullet, Jackie developed
a blood clot and died from an aneurysm.
10. Terry would frequently hit the kids with a belt. He would make them hold up
their hands in the air as he whipped them. Sometimes when he whipped Stevie he
would leave belt marks on him.
11. Stevie and Terry did not have a good relationship. Stevie had a journal that he
had been writing in at school before he died. On the back of the journal Stevie
had written, "Stevie, Sr. is my real dad." In fact, approximately three days before
Stevie's death, Stevie asked me to leave Terry.
12. In contrast, Terry was very close to Amanda and favored her. He was protective
of her but not close to Stevie. Terry acted like he resented Stevie or considered
him a rival.
13. Terry did not grieve for Stevie when Stevie was murdered. In fact, he did not
seem to be affected by Stevie's death at all.
14. Two weeks after Stevie died, Terry left town. Terry left me in Blytheville,
Arkansas and moved to Hardy, Arkansas. He said I was too much to handle and
that he could not stay around me anymore.
15. I had Terry Hobbs' name removed from Stevie's gravestone.
PAGE 2
16. Many people were very kind and generous to me and my family following
Stevie's death. When money started coming in to our family from strangers
trying to help, Terry always took any money allotted to our family. I do not know
what he used the money for.
17. Terry has also mistreated our daughter, Amanda. In 1993, when Amanda was 4
years old, my sister, Jo Lynn McCaughey, told me that Amanda had told her that
Terry had put his finger into Amanda's "booty."
18. I took Amanda to the hospital in Blytheville, Arkansas, so a doctor could do a

physical examination. That doctor told me that Amanda had been vaginally
penetrated and that she had a yeast infection.
19. In approximately 2002, when Amanda was older, approximately 13 years old, and
developing into a young woman, she told Jo Lynn (and Jo Lynn told me) that
Terry grabbed her breasts. This revelation caused me great concern because it
was the second time Amanda had said that Terry had sexually molested her.
20. As a result and because I was concerned about Amanda, I asked Amanda whether
Terry had actually grabbed her breasts. Amanda told me that yes, it was true,
Terry had grabbed her breasts.
21. Terry has been violent and abusive to people outside my family as well. Prior to
our marriage, Terry was married to Angela Timms. I saw the divorce papers in
which Angela accused Terry of sexually molesting their son, Bryan Hobbs.
22. Terry has tried to take Stevie's old possessions - the only things I have left of
Stevie, really - from me. In 2004, Jo Lynn and I went to see a Billy Ray Cyrus
concert. Terry showed up. I got my picture taken with Billy Ray Cyrus. The next
day John Walsh, of America's Most Wanted, was at the casino and Terry and I
were able to see Mr. Walsh, to speak to him and to tell him that he was an".
inspiration to victims like me. John Walsh had featured Stevie's case on
America's Most Wanted, and he told me that I was a lady with a lot of courage
and that I should not give up.
23. The next day Terry said to me, "I'm glad I'm from the mountains." He said he
was glad he was from the mountains because he could tell the difference between
a slut (he said slut or whore, I cannot remember which) and a lady. It was clear to
me that Terry was calling me a whore or a slut, just because I had talked to John
Walsh.
24. When Amanda and I returned there was a note on the door from Terry that said
something like, "I'm gone for the weekend and don't come back because I won't
be back until then." Amanda was able to get in the house through the back door.
When she got inside she saw that Terry was there. He hadn't left or gone
anywhere.
25. Amanda let me into the house. Terry was angry and we began to fight. Amanda
and I left and I asked the police to come with us to get our things so we could
move out. Amanda was aware that her father, Terry, used drugs, and she told the
police that her father did drugs. Amanda told the police officers that Terry did
cocaine and he did crystal methamphetamine. The police asked her, "Do you
know where he keeps his drugs?" When we got back to the house, Amanda went
back into the bedroom and found marijuana and a white powder.
26. When the police escorted me into the house, the first thing I went to look for was
the little suitcase that had belonged to Stevie which Stevie had labeled "My Ninja
Stuff: Do Not Touch." Stevie's suitcase was not where I kept it. I asked Terry
where the suitcase was. He said he did not know. The police officers told Terry
that if he knew where the suitcase was and where Stevie's things were and that
they wanted him to go and get them. One police officer took Terry out to his
vehicle and had him open the trunk. Everything of Stevie's, including the
suitcase, was in the trunk of Terry's car.
27. At some point after our divorce in 2004, I did return to Memphis to live with
Terry and Amanda, because Terry was allowing a twenty-one-year-old man to
live with Amanda, who was only fifteen. I felt like I was going to lose Amanda
as well as Stevie, so I went back to Memphis and lived with Terry and Amanda
for another fifteen months or so, so that I could be around my daughter and try to
protect her.
For all ofthe reasons I stated above, I believe it is possible that Terry was involved in the
murders of Stevie, Christopher and Michael."
declaration was executed in Mississippi(]ounty, Arkansas.
Dated: ---->-<......~-=--+-=--'-------
By: ---:.'fj~t:vh"t!~J~q-l-rn~aA.Al.4.<p~tJ~Q~~.
Pamela Marie Hobbs
~__
PAGE 4
EXHIBIT 47
Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM
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PAGE 02

WESTERN DIVISION
TERRY HOBBS, §
Plaintiff, §
§
v. §
§ CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM
NATALm PASDAR, et aI., §
Defendants. §
DECLARATION OF JOHN MARK BYERS
I, John Mark Byers, declare as follows:
1. «My name is John. Mark Byers. I am over the age of 21 and competent to give
this decl.ara.tion.
2. All of the inforo'l.ation set forth herein is within my personal knowledge and is
true and correct.
3. I am the father of Christopher Byers. Christopher is one of the 8 year old boys
who was murdered in Robin Hood Hills, West Memphis, Arkansas, on or about
May 5, 1993.
4. In 1994, three teenagers, Damien Echols, Jessie Miskelley, Jr. and Jason Baldwin
were convicted of the mur.ders. The press has referred to these three teenagers as
the West Memphis 3.
5. It is alm.ost unbelievable the attention that the public and press have focused on
the murders, the trials, the West Memphis 3~ the victims and the victim's families.
Newspapers from West Memphis, Arkansas~ Memphis, Tennessee, Little Rock,
Arkansas, and all over the United States, including The New York Times have run
stories on the murders, the trials, the West Memphis 3, the victims, the victim's
families and how all of these events have effected everyone.
6. HBO, the national cable channel, has air.ed two docum.entaries on the murderers,
the t'rials and the victims and their families. The first documentary is called
Paradise Lost: Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills, the second documentary is
caned Paradise Lost: Revelations. I know that the documentaries have appeared a
number of times on REO. I also know that the documentaries are available for
rental on VHS al:ld DVD. There is no telling how many people have seen this
r
story of the murderers, the trials and the victims and their families as a result of
these documentaries.
PAGE.l
DECLARAT10N 01' JOHN MARK BYERS 5_1 5)l9.POC!J 09Q036 I
,
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OFFICE 2359 Page 115 of 122
PAGE 03
7. Soon after the murders~ in J994, Pam Hobbs and Terry Hobbs ("Hobbs"), the
parents of one of the victims, Stevie Branch~ appeared on Tlw Geraldo Show to
discuss the murder.s, the trials, the West Memphis 3, how their lives have been
affected by the murders and some of the events of May 5, 1993.
8. In Jtule of 2007, the West Memphis police interviewed TeIl'Y Hobbs. The
interview of Hobbs was made public and was put on the Internet. The video ofihe
interview and transcripts of the interview are available to the press and public and
have been since around the time of the interview. If you sear.ch the net for Terry
Hobbs West Memphis police you can fwd videos of these in.terviews.
9. Tn June and July 2007, certain events happened that made the murders, the trials~
the victims, the victims' famjJjes and Terry Hobbs· in particular even more the
focus of press attention. Specifically, new evidence came to light regarding the
mutders and that new evidence was made public in July of 2007. The first bit of
new evidence that came to light was that two hairs had been found at the crime
scene. These hairs were tested for DNA, and one hair was consistent with the hair
of Hobbs. The other hair was consistent with the hair of Hobbs' friend David
Jacoby.
10. As you call imagine, when it was announced in. July 2007 that DNA at the scene
appeared to be DNA from the stepfather of Stevie Branch, the press pushed the
story. There were many news stories which reported the DNA evidence and
linked it to Terry Hobbs.
11. Terry hired a spokesman who gave many interviews in response to the finding of
the DNA evidence. I read numerous interviews wer.e the spokesperson was talking
about the DNA evidence and whether Terry could have been involved in the
murders. The spokesperson was named Ross Sampson.
12. Terry also gave a number of interviews in which he discussed the DNA evidence
and whether he was involved in the murders. I read many of these ani.c1es.
13. In some of the articles, Terry complained that the Wegt Memphis 3 defense team
was ruining his life and reputation.
14. Based on all of this new evidence, Damien Echols filed a doclUIlent in court
seeking to get his release or a new trial. This d.ocument was filed some time in
late October of 2007 or early November of 2007. His team Qflawyers held a press
conference and announced inforoJ.ation about the filing.
15. I believe Terry Hobbs was involved in the m.urder.s. Some of the reasons I believe
Hobbs was involved are set forth below.
16. Hobbs has claimed that the first time he met me was at 6:00 PM at Dana Moore's
house when Dana, myself and Bobbs were looking for our children. He has
claimed that at this time, 6 PM, J said I was going to call the p<.1lice and report my
son missing. Hobbs ha..,,; also stated that he al1d his friend David Jacoby were
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PAGE 04
searching Robin Hood Hills for the boys at 6:00 PM or 6:30 PM. Hobbs'
statements ate false.
17. In fact, I met Hobbs at my house at approximately 8:20 or 8:30 PM. I know it was
8:20 or 8:30 PM or so~ because: (1) Dana Moore had last seen the boys riding
their bikes around 6:00 PM; and (2) T called the police to report Christopher
missing around 8:08 PM. Simply put, I did not and Dana Moore did not even
think the boys were missing at 6:00 PM or 6:30 PM. At 6:00 PM J was in the
West Memphis courthouse picking up my son~ Ryan, who was testifying in a car
wreck case. Officer Regina Meeks came over to my house to take the report after
I called it in.. Dana Moore, the mother of Michael Moore~ saw the polioe car and
came over to my house to report her son missing as well. As Officer Meeks was
leaving, Hobbs walked up.
18. I beUeve the reason that Hobbs' incorrect statements about the time We met and
when he was searching is so important is because in fact, Hobbs' whereabouts
from approximately 6:00 PM to 8:30 PM are wholly unaccounted for. David
Jacoby, Hobbs' 'friend, has stated to me that Hobbs came to his house at
approximately 5:00 PM and that as he was opening the door to let Hobbs in~ he
saw 2 boys on bicycles and 1 boy on a skateboar.d ride by his house and that he
believes one of the boys was Stevie. Jacoby has stated that HobbS left at
approximately 6~OO PM or 6:30 PM to see if Stevie had come home. No one
knows Hobbs' whereabouts from that time, 6:00 PM or 6;30 PM, until I saw
Hobbs at the my house at approxi.mately 8:30 PM. I believe that Hobbs has
stated that he met me at the Moores at 6:00 PM so that he has an alibi for. this time
period in which his whereabouts are actually unknown. Jacoby also told me that
he did not cross the pipe bridge or search in. the woods for Stevie.
19. Several years ago~ I was talking to Hobbs and he made the statement that we had
met for the first time around 6:00 PM on May 5, 1993. I told him that no, it was
around 8:00 PM. He became enraged and started yelling, "it was 6:00 PM, it was
6:00 PM." I believe he was trying to convince me that it was 6:00 PM so that he
would have an alibi, and the fact tbat I knew 'that he was lying sent him into a
rage.
20. HobbS also failed to tell his wife that Stevie was missing until he picked her up
from work at 9:00 PM. This seems very strange to me. Tf a child were m,issing,
the mother would want to know alid I would think the stepfather would can her at
work and tell h.er to leave work and come look.
21. Fairly soon after the murders, I asked Hobbs to go with me to shoot guns. I knew
he had a 9 mm gun because Hobbs had told me about it. He claimed he couldn't
go shoot with me because he thought his brother-in-law, Jackie Hicks, Jr., had
stolen his gun.
22. In June of 2007, Hobbs also stated that he saw a black male "brun" orossing 'the
bridge by Catfish Island, that he had long hair, raggedy clothes and that "he's
PAGE 3
, , Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-9 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 117 of 122
05/19/2009 17: 02 901-576-1514 FEDEX OFFICE 2359 PAGE 05
noticeable, that image sticks in frame" for Hobbs. Hobbs also claims that his
wife, Pam, was with him when he saw the black man.
23. Prior to .Ttme 2007, I am unaware of Hobbs ever having mentioned seeing the
black man to police or to me or to anyone involved with the events. That means
that for 14 years! Hobbs had never said anything about the black man to anyone
who bad the power to investigate the sighting. I believe that Hobbs is now trying
to throw another suspect into the mix to keep attentlon off of him. However, his
statement is completely incredible. Why would a father not merltion to the police
for 14 years that he had seen a suspicious man around the location of the
murder.s? It makes no sense, unless Terry Hobbs is trying to deflect attention
from himself.
24. Hobbs told me many things that were simply llot true around the time of the
murders. He told me he was living i.n a different house at the time of the m.urders
than the house he was actually living in. He told me that Stevie was cut from his
ear to his jaw and that the right side of Stevie's face was gone; that was not true.
Hobbs claimed he searched the woods with Officer Regina Meeks and in fact, she
has stated she did not ever search into the woods because there were too many
mosquitoes.. Hobbs has said that he was the first parent to call the police about
the missing boys; that is not tme.
25. Hobbs called me and told me that an investigator for the West Memphis 3, Ron
Lax., bad called him and told him that the DNA in the ligature of one of the
victims matched his DNA. Hobbs told me that he had met with Lax. I asked
Hobbs why he met with Lax, and Hobbs said that he went out of curiosity.
26. On one occasion, 1 asked Hobbs, "What if those three (the West Memphis 3)
didn;t do it, what happened if it was an accident?" Of course, it is preposterous to
think that three 8 year old boys could be killed in the way that they were and it
was an accident. Hobbs responded: "You are right, it could have been an accident
and that would be like a drunk. diver, that person would not be a monster," I
thQught it was appalling that a father of a victim would attempt tQ excuse such a.
vicious murder. It made me very suspicious of Hobbs' involvement to see him.
having sympathy for the murderer and/or explaining that he might not be a
monster.
27. Hobbs has told me that he has a storage area where he keeps things. I have tried
to get him to take me there and he has said he will but he never wilL"
, Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-9 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 118 of 122
05/19/2009 17:02 901-576-1514 FEDEX OFFICE 2359 PAGE 06
I declare under penalty that the foregoing is true and correct and that this declaration was
executed in Shelby County, Termessee.
Dated: _W~ CJ-
PAGES
EXHIBIT 48

WESTERN DMSION
TERRY HOBBS, §
Plaintiff, §
§
v. §
§ CV NO.: 4-09-CV-0008BSM
NATALIE PASDAR, et aI., §
Defendants. §
DECLARATION OF MILDRED FRENCH
I, Mildred French, declare as follows:
1. "My name is Mildred French. I am over the age of 21 and competent to give this
declaration.
true and correct.
·3. In 1982, I was a neighbor of Terry Hobbs in Hot Springs, Arkansas. I lived in a 2
story duplex next door to Terry Hobbs, his wife, and their child. On different
occasions in the mornings I caught Terry standing outside looking at me in my
window.
4. On one occasion I heard a baby crying and sounds that indicated to me that Terry
Hobbs was beating his wife andlor his child. I ran next door to Terry's unit and
rang the outside bell to Terry Hobbs' residence. After a moment, Terry opened
the door and asked me with disgust in his voice, "What do you want?" I told him
that if he touched his wife or his baby again I would call the police.
5. A few months later, I had worked outside in my yard. I went inside my home to
take a shower and get cleaned up. I specifically remember that I locked all of the
screen doors when I came inside. I went upstairs and took a shower. While I was
in the shower I did not hear anything unusual.
6. When I got out of the shower, I reached to put on my house coat, and at that
moment, Terry Hobbs, who had broken in and somehow gotten upstairs into my
bathroom, physically grabbed me from behind and grabbed my breast. I screamed
at Terry loudly, "What are you doing in my house?" and screamed "GET OUT."
I kept repeating, loudly, "GET OUT," and Terry hissed "Shhhhhh" at me.
However, I kept yelling for Terry to get out, and ultimately Terry ran out of my
home and ran downstairs into his unit. The bathroom window over my tub was
partially open and my yelling could be heard outside. I recall a man was outside
PAGEl
DECLARATION OF MILDRED FRENCH. DOC!
across the street working in his yard. I believe that Terry intended to further
molest and/or harm me because his actions and demeanor indicated that was his
goal, but I believe my continued yelling and screaming alarmed him and caused
him to run off. At the time, I was afraid that Terry would rape, harm or even kill
me.
7. I called the police to report Terry's break in and attack. I believe the police filed
an incident report on the matter.
8. I also went that day to Terry's mother-in-law who lived nearby and told her all
what Terry had done -- that he had broken into my home and had assaulted me in
my bathroom. I told the mother-in-law that Terry was a very sick man and that he
required counseling immediately. The mother-in-law told me that her family was
not in favor of sending Terry to counseling. She was a member of some sort of
Pentecostal church. I told her then that I would pursue the matter with the police.
9. That night, after I told my landlord about the attack, my landlord set up a meeting
in which both Hobbs and I sat down face to face in front of the landlord. Terry's
father-in-law was also there. I said to Terry, "tell them what you did to me."
Terry said, "I didn't do nothing." After I articulated what Hobbs had done to me,
Terry looked me square in the eye and said calmly, "It never happened." He was
cool and collected as he told me it never happened. If you had not known for
certain Terry was lying, you would not have been able to tell by his demeanor that
he was lying. I was sickened and frightened by Terry's ability to deny his horrific
and perverted actions and seem so calm in doing so. I looked at Terry and told
him, "You are a liar and you are sick."
10. Terry looked back at me with cold, dead eyes and said, "Yeah, I'm sick."
11. The landlord kicked Terry and his family out of Terry's unit as a result of his
attack.
12. I appeared in court to press charges against Terry Hobbs. Though I do not
remember the specifics, I do recall that at the hearing Terry was ordered to go to
counseling and the matter was resolved in that manner. I do not know if Terry
went to counseling but he was supposed to go to counseling at a facility located
on 7th Street in Hot Springs.
13. I believe Terry was in his early 20s at the time of these events. I recall that he
was a quietly violent and scary man. I believe that Terry became angered because
I had interfered in his ability to beat his wife and child at will, and attacked me as
set forth above, by grabbing me while I was naked coming out of the shower, as a
way to punish me for my actions and to intimidate me into not interfering in his
domestic acts of violence in the future. I was astounded by Terry's violence, his
willingness to break into my house in broad daylight, his perversion and evilness
in coming into my home to attack me while I was naked in the bathroom, and his
chilling ability to calmly lie about what he had done. I believed then that Terry
PAGE 2
DECLARATION OF MILDRED FRENCH.DOC!
was a violent, abusive, sick predator. I was happy when the landlord forced him
to move out of his unit and I am grateful that I have not ever again crossed paths
with Terry Hobbs. I recall these events even though it has been 27 years because
it was so horrible and I was so terrified of Terry Hobbs.
declaration was executed in Garland County, Arkansas.
Dated: _.=..~-,~::...----..:o=----.!.q_-_o~7c--_ By~--4--~

Mildred French
PAGE 3
DECLARATION OF MILDRED FRENCH.DOC!

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Case 4:09-cv-00008-BSM Document 38-9 Filed 08/21/2009 Page 1 of 122

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

DECLARATION OF JO LYNN MCCAUGHEY

I, Jo Lynn McCaughey, declare as follows:

the murders. Numerous articles ran regarding his spokesperson's conversations

declaration was executed in Mississippi County, Arkansas.

Dated: Lff!~ c20 / ~dO '1

Copyright 1994 Investigative News Group

LENGTH: 7258 words

ANCHORS: Geraldo Rivera

EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Martin M. Bennan

KIDS WHO KILL: DID THE DEVIL MAKE THEM DO IT?

(Photo of Steven Hicks)

htt! lllahan.8k.com/wm3/geraldo.html \ . . _j.'

RIVERA: Essentially, he was beaten to death?

Mrs. I-IOBBS: Mm-hmm.

(Begin investigative report; narration by Geraldo Rivera)

(Photograph of Steven Hicks)

(Photos of Michael Moore and Christopher Byers)

(Photos of Jessie Misskelley Jr., Damian Echols, and Jason Baldwin)

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RIVERA: Adding to the parents' horrors...

(Footage of Jessie Misskelley Jr. in police custody)

(Photos; Satanic grafitti on wall)

(Footage of Damian Echols in police custody)

(Footage of the West Memphis trailer park)

http: illahan.8k.coIri/wm:3/geraldo:htinl ""'\._)'.:.: '''l::'.~

(Interior of Jessie Misskelley Jr.'s bedroom shown)

(Partial re-enactment shown during narration)

(End investigative report)

RIVERA: Michael Moore, one of the three victims, yeah.

RIVERA: Who told you that they found his body?

(Photo of Steven Hicks)

RIVERA: Did a feeling of rage swell up in you?

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RIVERA: Do you believe that the right teen-ager was convicted?

Mr. HICKS: Yes, I do.

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yes, sir.

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yes, sir, I sure do.

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No, he was not.

RIVERA: He didn't attend meetings?

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: No, he did not.

RIVERA: There was testimony to that effect at the trial.

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: That's a lie.

RIVERA: Do you think everyone is lying about your son?

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Yes, I do.

RIVERA: And you believe that he had an alibi?

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: I know he did.

RIVERA: Then why did he make a 32-minute confession to the cops?

RIVERA: Terry, you want to say something to Mr. Misskelley Sr.?

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: Sir--but my son did not do it.

Mr. HOBBS: He said he did.

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: What did he say?

Mr. HOBBS: He didn't.

Mr. MISSKELLEY Sr.: We tried.

Mr. HOBBS: He didn't. He had a chance.

RIVERA: What else could it have been?

(Theme music and applause)

(Theme music and applause)