An Interview with Karel Reisz

Prez Ru, Carmen. Literature/Film Quarterly 31.2 (2003): 156-160. In an interview, director Karel Reisz talks about the Free Cinema movement, costume dramas, the ictorian a!e, the relationshi" between the #ilm $%he French Lieutenant&s 'oman$ and the novel, the screen"lay, the most im"ortant sta!e o# #ilm "roduction, and im"rovisation( )ou started with the Free Cinema movement, which !ave a social and "olitical stance to *ritish cinema( %his movement attem"ted to !et #ree #rom commercial constraints( I wonder i# at this sta!e in your career you consider you have #ollowed this "ath and achieved what you wanted( In the main, yes, ut n!t "!m#$ete$y. %s the &i$ms 'et m!re e(#ensi)e y!u *! 'et m!re restraints &r!m the stu*i!s, ut !n the +h!$e my "areer has een ,uite &ree, n! "!m#$aints. )ou are re"uted to be a director with a !reat interest in outcasts, in characters that #all out o# the ordinary( 'hy is this+ 'hy have you so o#ten chosen this sort o# character+ It is )ery *i&&i"u$t t! ta$- a !ut !ne.s !+n +!r- in that ana$yti"a$ +ay. /!u -n!+ +hat ha##ens is: y!u rea* materia$, an* y!u ta$-, an* y!u $i)e, an*... su**en$y y!u &in* that there is a su 0e"t that interests y!u. It isn.t that y!u -n!+ +hat the theme is, y!u &in* the su 0e"t interestin', an* then !)er the years y!u &in* that it has een the same su 0e"t e)ery time1 ut it isn.t intenti!na$, it isn.t a #r!'ramme, it.s s!methin' insi*e y!u an* I thin- that &r!m that #!int !& )ie+ the artist is un+ise t! #in *!+n the themes t!! mu"h. I mean it.s the "riti"s. 0! t! say: 23h, yes he.s *!ne that e)ery time !r ... the artist sh!u$* -ee# himse$& &ree rea$$y t! &in* +hate)er ! sesses him.2 I thin- y!u are ri'ht there is a "!mm!n theme, ut it is "ertain$y n!t intenti!na$, 23h, I must ma-e an!ther &i$m a !ut a re e$,2 y!u -n!+, it *!esn.t +!r- $i-e that. /!u &in* y!urse$&-I &in* myse$& !r I.)e &!un* myse$& in the #ast ein' intereste* y su 0e"ts +here the "entra$ "hara"ter '!es in s!me +ay a'ainst the 'rain !& his +!r$*, an* +hy that is y!u +!u$* ha)e t! as- my #sy"h!ana$yst, n!t that I ha)e !ne ut. .. . From a "olitical "ers"ective such as the one that ins"ired Free Cinema, do you think that art, and cinema in "articular, can not only record but also in#luence chan!es in society+ 4e$$, in a #!$iti"a$ +ay #r! a $y n!t )ery mu"h1 main$y the "inema re&$e"ts s!"iety rather than "han'in' it, e"ause su**en$y y!u &in* *i&&erent thin's in the ner)es !& the au*ien"e, an* th!se are the thin's that e"!me #!#u$ar. 5ut these m!)ements, "han'es, are e(treme$y *i&&i"u$t t! #er"ei)e. I thin- I +!u$* ha)e t! say there is n!t )ery mu"h in&$uen"e. I *!n.t thin- the arts "han'e s!"iety in the sense that y!u.re ta$-in' a !ut. /!u -n!+, it.s een trie*, the 6ermans trie* it, the Russians trie* it. I& the attem#t t! "han'e the +!r$* is t!! !)ert, the #u $i" re0e"ts it e"ause they thin- they are ein' $e"ture*, s! the ans+er t! y!ur ,uesti!n is a )ery ,ua$i&ie* n!. 'hy is the costume #ilm still so healthy+ 'hy does it a""eal so much to directors and audiences+ Is it a sort o# esca"e #rom reality+ 7!, I *!n.t thin- it is ne"essari$y an es"a#e &r!m inner rea$ity at a$$. In &a"t, I thin- that +!r-in' at arm.s $en'th in a *i&&erent #eri!* in a *i&&erent "!untry s!metimes ma-es it easier &!r !ne t! i*enti&y meanin's e"ause it is ta-en a+ay &r!m the *ay-t!-*ay rea$ity. I thin- 8he 9ren"h :ieutenant.s 4!man, the n!)e$, the ;i"t!rian st!ry, is a re$ati)e$y tra*iti!na$ su 0e"t. I mean, it is n!t a$$ that *i&&erent &r!m s!me !& the 8h!mas <ar*y n!)e$s. =("e#t I thin- there is an e$ement in it that is, y!u mi'ht a$m!st say ma-es it, a ;i"t!rian n!)e$ use* as a -in* !& s"ien"e &i"ti!n )ehi"$e, sin"e it #!sits the #!ssi i$ity !& a +!man +ith t+entieth-"entury *esires $i)in' in the nineteenth "entury an* ha)in' there&!re t! $i)e )ery mu"h in her ima'inati!n, an* assumin' "ertain -in*s !& &ree*!m !&

ass!"iati!n, that in a n!rma$ $i&e she +!u$*n.t ha)e. 8here is then a )ery stran'e thin' that ha##ens in the n!)e$: a !ut three ,uarters !& the +ay thr!u'h, she "han'es "!m#$ete$y. 4e *!n.t see the transiti!n. %t !ne #!int she is *!+n in $ine an* then there is the i' s"ene an* she runs a+ay, then she *isa##ears an* +e *!n.t see her, an* then the ne(t time +e see her she.s s!rt !& e"!me a -in* !& t+entieth-"entury +!man, she has s!rt !& eman"i#ate*. 8he #sy"h!$!'y !& the "hara"ter *!esn.t seem t! interest the artist at a$$. I& he +as intereste* in that +e +!u$* ha)e t! see the transiti!n, ut he is intereste* in #uttin' her in !ne +!r$* an* then #uttin' her int! a m!re eman"i#ate* +!r$*. %n* he is a $e t! *! that e"ause he has this #attern !& '!in' a+ay &r!m the #ast t! the #resent, an* #ast, t! s#e"u$ati!n an* #ast, t! 'enera$ *is"ussi!n an* #ast, t! the ma$e "hara"ter '!in' t! %meri"a. >! that +hen the $ea# "!mes &!r 28he 9ren"h :ieutenant.s 4!man2 t! e 0u*'e* +e say, 23h? I see +e.re in a *i&&erent +!r$* n!+,2 she.s 0!ine* this Pre-Ra#hae$ite 'r!u#, the m!ra$ity !& +hi"h is "!m#$ete$y *i&&erent &r!m the m!ra$ity !& :yme Re'is s!"iety. >! there is a )ery str!n' inte$$e"tua$ s#e"u$ati)e e$ement in the n!)e$. It isn.t $i-e a <ar*y n!)e$, +here it is a$$ in !ne +!r$*, it 0um#s. %n* the e$ement !& s#e"u$ati!n in the n!)e$ is )ery, )ery str!n', n!t !n$y in the &a"t that it -ee#s 0um#in' in an* !ut ut a$s! in this #arti"u$ar #$!t *e)i"e in +hi"h she is !ne -in* !& +!man an* then she 0um#s an* e"!mes an!ther. >! it.s a rather e$a !rate #attern. %he ictorian a!e in "articular, is nowadays still very "resent with *ritish intellectuals, writers, #ilmmakers( 'hy do you think this is+ 8he $iterature (a$s! #re-;i"t!rians), the $iterature is )ery, )ery str!n'1 the ,ua$ity !& @ane %usten, <ar*y, 6. =$i!t is )ery, )ery remar-a $e. It.s n!t sur#risin' that +!r-s !& su"h ,ua$ity remain in the "!ns"i!usness, ut y!u -n!+, >ha-es#eare is #er&!rme* a$$ the time. I *!n.t thin-, it is n! m!re than the 9ren"h, the 9ren"h *! a $!t !& #eri!*s t!!. I thin- it has t! *! +ith the ,ua$ity !& the +!r-, )ery r!man"e, )ery mu"h a$i)e. ,ow would you de#ine the relationshi" between the #ilm -%he French Lieutenant&s 'oman. and the novel+ 3h? I +!u$*n.t try. I thin- i& !ne *!es an a*a#tati!n !& a n!)e$, !ne has s!me ! $i'ati!n t! e intereste* in the s#irit !& the n!)e$-+hat it +as asi"a$$y tryin' t! *!- ut !ne has a s!$ute$y n! ! $i'ati!n t! the *etai$s !& the n!)e$. 8he t+! me*ia are s! "!m#$ete$y *i&&erent, the n!)e$ +!r-s y *es"ri#ti!n, the "inema +!r-s y *em!nstrati!n, s! these t+! #r!"esses are s! asi"a$$y *i&&erent. . . . 4hen y!u ma-e a &i$m y!u ha)e an ! $i'ati!n t! *ramatize, y!u nee* t! -ee# the #ressure !& e)ents '!in' in su"h a +ay that the au*ien"e is he$* &!r the t+! h!urs. I -ee# thin-in' that the #r! $ems are "!m#$ete$y *i&&erent. /!u -n!+, y!u ha)e n! #r! $ems !& *es"ri#ti!n, &!r instan"e, +hen a n!)e$ist intr!*u"es a "hara"ter, he te$$s y!u +hat "!$!r her eyes are, +hat she $!!-s $i-e, +hat her hist!ry is, +hat her "$!thes are, +hat -in* !& #ers!n she is. In a m!)ie the #ers!n is there. 3n the !ther han*, the n!)e$ has the hu'e *i&&erent #!ssi i$ity !& the auth!r.s "!mments, that.s t! say, the t!ne !& the auth!r.s "!mments, the "!ntent !& the auth!r.s "!mments. In this "ase the a"tua$ #resen"e !& the auth!r is s!methin' that is #ermitte* an* &as"inatin', that y!u "an.t *! in the m!)ie. /!u "an.t su**en$y ha)e s!me !*y a**ressin' the au*ien"e. >! the means are "!m#$ete$y *i&&erent an* I thin- y!u *!n.t *! the n!)e$ a &a)!r y ein' &aith&u$ t! the *etai$s. /!u nee* t! inter#ret them &!r the me*ia y!u are +!r-in' in. /inter&s version in the screen"lay concentrated on the relationshi" o# the twentieth0century "layers with the #ilm they were "roducin! and with their characters( %his sub"lot contributes to maintain the meta0te1tual statement o# the novel, but it has been described as disru"tive #or some audiences( 2o you think that the #ilm somehow de"ends on the novel because o# this+ 3h? It.s )ery *e#en*ent !n the n!)e$, yes, the e)ents are )ery simi$ar, ut the *etai$s !& "!ntinuity are "!m#$ete$y *i&&erent. /!u see, I thin- that the im#!rtant thin' a !ut the t+! "!ntinuities is that it ena $es y!u t! *! t+! thin's1 it ena $es y!u t! ha)e a &i"ti!n, the ;i"t!rian &i"ti!n, an* it ena $es y!u t! 0um# !ut !& it an* "!mment !n +hat &i"ti!n a"tua$$y *!es. It is $i-e a *is"ussi!n !& &i"ti!n ut I thin- that in the "ase !& the m!)ies it is a natura$ *ra+in' attenti!n t! the &a"t !& the &i$mma-in'.

%n* the #r! $em is t! -ee# the thrust !& the st!ry a$i)e +hi$e ta-in' the "ar#et a+ay &r!m un*er the "hara"ters e)ery n!+ an* then. %n* !& "!urse, it +!u$* ha)e een easier t! etray the n!)e$ an* te$$ it in !ne, ut that +asn.t a "h!i"e. I thin- the !ther thin' that.s )ery, )ery interestin' in the !!- . . . in the !!- an* in the &i$m in a *i&&erent +ay: In the !!-, +hen he (9!+$es) 0um#s !ut !& the st!ry he "!ns"i!us$y uses the s!rt !& sensi i$ity that is )ery t+entieth "entury-he ta$-s a !ut <enry A!!re, an* he ta$-s a !ut 9reu* an* he ta$-s . . . m!*ern. In the m!)ie +e -ee# 0um#in' t! the t+entieth-"entury sensi i$ity !& the a"t!rs, their +h!$e sense !& se(ua$ity is "!m#$ete$y *i&&erent, their +h!$e sense !& $!ya$ty is "!m#$ete$y *i&&erent, their m!ra$ an* s#iritua$ #ri!rities are ,uite *i&&erent. %n* the "!mments they ma-e a !ut the #arts they #$ay a** t! the #ara*!(. >!, !& "!urse it.s a *i&&erent thin' &r!m the n!)e$. 8hen it.s an e,ui)a$ent, it.s an attem#t t! -ee# the 'ame +hi"h the n!)e$ ha* starte*. 4e ha)en.t re0e"te* the n!ti!n !& the 'ame, ut +e.)e "han'e* the ru$es !& the 'ame. ,ow would you de#ine the two styles that you created in both stories+ 8hey are )ery *i&&erent$y $it. 3ne is $it in a )ery *ramati", *ire"t-$i&e +ay an* the !ther is !un"e* $i'ht an* n! sha*!+s. 8hey $!!- *i&&erent. In the m!*ern set there is an attem#t at a -in* !& #atternin' +ay !& $!!-in', +hereas the ;i"t!rian stu&& is )ery *ramati"a$$y $it, an* the an'$es are mu"h shar#er an* the sha*!+s are mu"h hea)ier. It.s '!t a *i&&erent sme$$ an* &ee$. I #eel that Anna is a much more conventional character than 3arah in the sense that her reaction is not 4uite as brave or as "ur"ose#ul( %n!ther +ay !& sayin' it is she.s in)!$)e* in an em!ti!na$ re$ati!nshi# that isn.t )ery im#!rtant t! her. 4hat is im#!rtant t! her is the +!r- an* +hen the &i$m en*s, there is n! su''esti!n that that re$ati!nshi# she.s ma*e *urin' the &i$m has '!t any 'reat +ei'ht t! #ermanen"e. 3& "!urse, there isn.t time t! *ramatize the m!*ern "hara"ters in the *e#th as the !thers, there isn.t. 5ut I thin- they are ,uite s#e"i&i" #e!#$e, an* n!t 0ust an a"t!r an* an a"tress. I thin- there is a$s! an assum#ti!n !& e,ua$ity et+een the t+! !& them, +hi"h "!ntrasts )ery str!n'$y t! the re$ati!nshi# !& the ;i"t!rian "hara"ters. 'hy did /inter make 3arah a "ainter, an artist+ 4hat is she in the !!-B C!es she -ee# a *iaryB /!u see, -ee#in' a *iary is a $iterary +ay !& 'ettin' t! the in+ar*ness !& a "hara"ter. Cra+in' an* seein' *ra+in's is a )isua$ +ay. 4e see *ra+in's y her. )es, there is a very "ower#ul scene in which she is drawin! her sel#0"ortrait( 4e$$, it is a "inemati" e,ui)a$ent !& a "!n&essi!na$ *iary. I& +e ha* a *iary she +!u$*.)e ha* t! rea* !ut !& the *iary +hi"h is a )ery un&i$mi" *e)i"e. 8his +ay +e +ere a $e t! *! it y ima'ery, y the nature !& +hat she *ra+s an* the "!m#aris!n she ma-es $!!-in' in the mirr!r. It.s an!ther &i"ti!nit.s n!t a trans$ati!n. /inter reduced the social statement about the ictorian "eriod( ,e sort o# concentrated more on the meta0te1tual than the social( I thin- the "!m#$e(ity, the num er !& #!ints y!u "an ma-e ... in the "!urse !& a $!n' n!)e$, is !& "!urse *i&&erent &r!m an!ther art &!rm. %$s! in a &i$m y!u ha)e the ! $i'ati!n t! -ee# the thrust !& the narrati)e '!in' &!r+ar* t! h!$* the au*ien"e, an* it is a *i&&i"u$t en!u'h tas- +ith a$$ the 0um#s that -ee# ta-in' us a+ay. It is a$s! true that +e *i* sh!!t a $!n' se,uen"e, the e,ui)a$ent !& the s"ene in the n!)e$ +hen he '!es t! see the #r!stitute1 +e *i* sh!!t that an* that "arrie* a )ery hea)y s!"ia$ +ei'ht. %n* +hen +e sh!t it +e &!un* it un a$an"e* the st!ry s!meh!+-it seeme* rather $i-e a #ie"e !& s!"i!$!'y in the mi**$e !& a *rama an* +e *r!##e* it. 'hat can the cinema do with novels and what can&t it do+ 4e$$ that.s y!ur 0! , it.s n!t my 0! . %o what e1tent do you #eel com"elled to use novels as sources+

I *!n.t &ee$ "!m#e$$e* at a$$. I mean I.)e ma*e s!me &i$ms that ha)e een, s!me &i$ms that ha)en.t een. 8here is n! "!m#u$si!n. 9r!m the #!int !& )ie+ !& the &i$m in*ustry, it.s easier t! 'et m!ney &!r a #r!0e"t that the &inan"iers . . . , +hen there is an!ther +ay !& them e(#erien"in' it. Rea*in' s"ri#ts is an e(treme$y *i&&i"u$t thin'-#e!#$e *!n.t *! it +e$$1 an* the #r!&essi!na$s *!n.t *! it +e$$ either, the m!ney #r!&essi!na$s. 8he 9ren"h $ieutenant.s 4!man +as a$rea*y a )ery #!#u$ar !!- s! I thin- m!ney #e!#$e th!u'ht yes, this is a '!!* et. 5ut a sh!rt st!ry !r a ne+s#a#er arti"$e !r 0ust an i*ea is 0ust as '!!* a s!ur"e. I *!n.t thin- there is any ru$e a !ut this. 3ome directors 5like Anthony 6in!hella and 3ally /otter7 have declared to have read a book and sort o# $seen $ it in their minds in cinematic ima!es( )ou have made a number o# ada"tations and I was wonderin! i# this was your case as well( 8hat *!es ha##en, ut it.s n!t the !n$y +ay. /!u -n!+ I ma*e a m!)ie "a$$e* 8he 6am $er, +hi"h starte* y a y!un' man "!min' int! my r!!m an* 'i)in' me si(ty #a'es !& aut! i!'ra#hy. 8here is n! ... y!u "an.t ma-e any ru$e a !ut +hat starts the "reati)e 0ui"es !& the *ire"t!r-there are many thin's. 'hich is the most im"ortant sta!e o# #ilm "roduction #or you as a director+ Is there a stron! "oint on which you base the #inal out"ut+ %$$ the sta'es are #art !& the same #r!"ess. %n* they are a$$ im#!rtant. 8here is a hu'e 0um# et+een the !ri'ina$ i*ea an* the s"ri#t, an* there is a hu'e 0um# et+een the s"ri#t an* the rehearsa$, an* there.s a hu'e 0um# et+een the rehearsa$ an* the sh!!tin', an* there is a hu'e 0um# et+een sh!!tin' an* then inter#retin' the materia$ in the "uttin' r!!m. 8here is then a min!r 0um# in #uttin' in the s!un* tra"-. 8hey are a$$ #art !& !ne #r!"ess. %n* #reten*in' that s!methin' is m!re im#!rtant than the !ther is s!me +ay t! misun*erstan* the me*ia. 4hat is im#!rtant is t! 'i)e aut!n!my t! ea"h !& the #r!"esses. I mean, !n"e y!u.)e sh!t the materia$, the materia$ "han'es &r!m the s"ri#t, it 'r!+s. It e"!mes ... it has !ther sensi i$ities in)!$)e*. %n* then +hen y!u.re in the "uttin' r!!m, y!u must e "are&u$ that y!u.re res#!n*in' t! the materia$ y!u a"tua$$y ha)e, n!t the materia$ y!u th!u'ht y!u +ere '!in' t! 'et +hen y!u rea* the s"ri#t. >! the thin' is an !r'ani" #r!"ess. %n* i& y!u are a &i$mma-er y!u ha)e t! +e$"!me that. . . . 4e$$, I.m ta$-in' a !ut the +ay I +!r-, ut there are "$ear$y many *ire"t!rs, an* many )ery '!!* *ire"t!rs +h! *!n.t +!r- $i-e that. /!u -n!+, 5unue$ is !n re"!r* as sayin' that the #r!"ess !& &i$min' is !rin', that he.s a$$ *!ne +hen he.s +ritten the s"ri#t. 4e$$, that.s his +ay. Ay +ay, an* I *!n.t #ut it in !##!siti!n t! any !*y e$se, is, that I h!#e &!r instan"e that the a"t!rs +i$$ sur#rise me. 3& "!urse I "ast a"t!rs that I thin- t! e +e$$ suite* t! the r!$e ut I a$s! h!#e that they +i$$ rin' &resh "!$!rs that I *i*n.t -n!+ +ere there. 2o you use im"rovisation+ 7!, I *!n.t use im#r!)isati!n, I use rehearsa$. /!u -n!+, I *!n.t "han'e the *ia$!'ue, ut !& "!urse, ma-in' the *ia$!'ue $i)e in)!$)es rehearsa$, m!)ement, timin', an* a sense !& rhythm, an* #resentati!n. I *!n.t use im#r!)isati!n in the sense that the a"t!rs *e"i*e +hat they say, n!t at a$$. 5ut I *! *! rehearsa$. I.m )ery, )ery s$!+ in the m!rnin' in the sense that s!metimes +e *!n.t sh!!t unti$ the a&tern!!n. It ta-es a $!n' time e&!re I -n!+ +hat I +ant t! *!, an* then I sh!!t )ery &ast. For my #inal 4uestion I am !oin! to tell you the associations that critics have made o# the cinema with other thin!s and "erha"s you can tell me what you think8 %he cinema as a mirror+ 4e$$, n!. 7!, it.s mu"h m!re $i-e a #aintin', mu"h m!re a rein)enti!n. %he #ilm as a dream+ /eah, it *e#en*s !n sty$e, s!me #e!#$e.s "inema is )ery ... there are "ertain thin's that are )ery simi$ar t! *reams. In *reams y!u 0um# &r!m si'ni&i"ant m!ment t! si'ni&i"ant m!ment, y!u *!n.t !#en the "$!se* *!!rs an* that -in* !&thin'1 s! in that sense there is a -in* !& em!ti!na$ "!n"entrati!n t! *reams that is in the est "inema, yes. 5ut !& "!urse there is a "ertain sty$e !&

"inema that is )ery $itera$, )ery *e#en*ent !n *etai$ +hi"h *ream is n!t. %he cinema as a "ee"hole + 7! that.s *e&inite$y n!t &!r me. Finally, what is your ne1t "ro9ect+ I.m +!r-in' in the theatre n!+. In &a"t, I.m '!in' t! 7e+ /!r- t! *! a #$ay, a <ar!$* Pinter #$ay. By Carmen Perez Riu (University of Oviedo) Gijon Film Festival, November !!" Co#yri$%t &iterature'Film (uarterly )**+