Three years ago to the week, Michael Dowd talked with Bart on this podcast about our modern way of life, sustainability and the future of civilization. When the coronavirus pandemic hit, Bart could think of nobody he wanted to talk to about it more than Michael, so he's back!

In this conversation, Bart and Michael talk about their shared sense that the pandemic will be followed by an economic recession or even depression, and that it signals the beginning of the end of our current way of life. Michael talks about the industrial world's reliance on the 'religion' of growth-based progress, the ecological fallacy being committed, the illusion of control we have, the inevitability of collapse, the stages of grief in response, and his optimism about what lies beyond it all.

Michael's website can be found at PostDoom.com.

On Patreon this week, hear Bart's story of his first psychedelic experience after taking LSD! It's at Patreon.com/HumanizeMe.

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The reason this podcast exists, even in trying economic times, is because some people support it monthly at Patreon.com/HumanizeMe. Please consider supporting us there for the cost of a cup of coffee once a month and get extra content for it. That amount won’t likely matter much to you, even now, but it will mean everything to us! (Includes access to the story of Bart's acid trip, the monthly bonus podcast, ‘Why It Matters’ where we discuss the show and read listener feedback, and the ‘Campolo Sessions‘, long-form conversations between Bart and his dad Tony Campolo.)

Humanize Me is hosted by Bart Campolo and is produced by John Wright at JuxMedia.com.