Everand Logo

Welcome to Everand!

  • Discover millions of ebooks, audiobooks, and so much more with a free trial

    From $11.99/month after trial. Cancel anytime.

    Protagoras: "Must not all things at the last be swallowed up in death?"
    Protagoras: "Must not all things at the last be swallowed up in death?"
    Protagoras: "Must not all things at the last be swallowed up in death?"
    Ebook101 pages1 hour

    Protagoras: "Must not all things at the last be swallowed up in death?"

    By Plato

    3.5/5

    ()

    Read preview

    About this ebook

    For someone whose influence has been so profound on Western thinking remarkably little is known of the Greek philosopher and thinker Plato. Due to the means and social status of his family Plato was most probably educated by some of Athens' finest teachers. The curriculum would have been rich and varied and include the doctrines of Cratylus and Pythagoras as well as Parmenides. Two major events shaped Plato’s life whilst he was a young man. The first was a meeting with the great philosopher Socrates. Socrates's methods of debate impressed Plato and he soon became a devoted follower. From here would flow Plato’s career as one of the finest minds civilization has produced. Major event number two was the on-going rivalry between Athens and Sparta which erupted into the Peloponnesian War. This was, in fact, several ‘stop-start’ wars fought during the period 431–404 BCE. Plato served in the cause of Athens and its Allies between 409 and 404 B.C.E. The comprehensive defeat of Athens by Sparta ended the Athenian democracy, although after a brief oligarchy it was restored. Plato traveled for a dozen years throughout the Mediterranean, studying mathematics with the Pythagoreans in Italy, as well as geometry, geology, astronomy and religion in Egypt. It was during this time that Plato began his writings, a remarkable number of which survive to this day. The writings themselves are usually classified into three distinct periods although there is some uncertainty as to the exact order in which they were written. Having now returned to Athens Plato embarked upon an extraordinary undertaking. In around 385 B.C.E., he established a school of learning, known as the Academy. The extensive curriculum included astronomy, biology, mathematics, political theory and philosophy. Plato hoped that those who studied there would be future leaders who would be better equipped thorough its teachings to understand how to build a better government. Plato would preside over its teachings until his death in Athens around 348 B.C.E.

    LanguageEnglish
    PublisherScribe Publishing
    Release dateDec 15, 2017
    ISBN9781787375741
    Protagoras: "Must not all things at the last be swallowed up in death?"
    Author

    Plato

    "Every heart sings a song, incomplete, until another heart whispers back. Those who wish to sing always find a song. At the touch of a lover, everyone becomes a poet.""Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.""We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.""Only the dead have seen the end of war."Plato

    Read more from Plato

    Related to Protagoras

    Related ebooks

    Philosophy For You

    View More
    View More

    Related podcast episodes

    Related articles

    • UNLIMITED

      The Great Morality Scam

      Jul 30, 2018

      The Great Morality Scam
      5 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      What Love Meant in 4500 B.C.

      Feb 21, 2022

      What Love Meant in 4500 B.C.
      2 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Hermeticism

      Feb 28, 2020

      In all probability, there was no philosophical basis for Rudolf’s worldview. He was a dabbler, an angler in the pool of ideas, an encourager of avant-garde thinkers who loved to have scholars and artists around him opening windows on esoteric and eve

      1 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Pearl

      Nov 30, 2021

      Ìsíjú Ká Jide Adefope, Michael Wilhelm  [email protected] Digital: iTunes, Kindle, Play, Zinio ■

      1 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Zombies Must Be Dualists

      Oct 19, 2017

      David Chalmers, who coined the phrase “Hard Problem of consciousness,” is arguably the leading modern advocate for the possibility that physical reality needs to be augmented by some kind of additional ingredient in order to explain consciousness—in

      10 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Digital Souls

      Sep 6, 2021

      Digital Souls
      5 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      The Lost Art of Not Knowing Something

      Feb 10, 2022

      I'd posit that there is a bit of Larry David in Socrates. They both puncture hypocrisy, force us to question our own moral platitudes, and deign that we must defend our presuppositions, even if doing so seems rude. The post The Lost Art of Not Knowin

      13 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Plato

      Nov 3, 2022

      Plato
      6 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Down To The Piraeus

      Aug 22, 2022

      Down To The Piraeus
      6 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Making Athens Great Again

      Mar 11, 2017

      Making Athens Great Again
      13 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Novel Thinking

      Sep 30, 2024

      Novel Thinking
      4 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Is Nothing Sacred? Aristophanes’s The Clouds and Moral Taboos

      Nov 1, 2020

      On my way to an evening class, my eye caught an interesting poster on the hall bulletin board. In its most recent efforts to rehabilitate my retrograde moral sensibility, Fordham University advertised that it would now provide full vegan menus to the

      26 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Rebel Greek Philosophers

      Mar 23, 2023

      Rebel Greek Philosophers
      6 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Life Versus Learning: A Battle Of The Titans

      Nov 30, 2023

      TWO VOLUMES SIT ON MY DESK: ONE, thick and weighty, features a marble bust of Plato on the cover. The other, slimmer, volume bears the image of Diogenes in his amphora surrounded by dogs. The contrast between the two contemporaries and rivals shines

      4 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Classical Corner

      Aug 8, 2024

      Classical Corner
      3 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      8 Podcast podcast Episodes About Ancient Greece

      Nov 23, 2023

      From the exploits of Agamemnon and Achilles to the alluring beauty of Helen of Sparta, the story of the Trojan War still fascinates people today. But was it based on actual events, or merely a tale cooked up by Homer? In this episode from 2022, Profe

      1 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Novelty

      Sep 30, 2024

      Novelty
      3 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Pythagoras

      Nov 4, 2022

      Pythagoras
      4 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      How Posture Makes Us Human

      May 10, 2018

      The very notion of what in the ancient world defines the human being in contrast to all other living things is simple: upright posture. Best known of the ancient commentators is Plato, who, according to legend, is claimed to have seen the human as bi

      12 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Gulliver’s Travels

      Oct 30, 2018

      Gulliver’s Travels
      5 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Plato Goes To Syracuse

      Aug 4, 2023

      In the spring of 384 BC Plato was on his way home from Syracuse, the greatest Greek city in Sicily. He had left Athens the previous year for an extended visit to southern Italy and Sicily. Several ancient biographers tell us that at least one of his

      6 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Who’s Who In Ancient Greece?

      Aug 5, 2021

      Who’s Who In Ancient Greece?
      7 min read

    • UNLIMITED

      Dogmatism Be Damned!

      Nov 5, 2020

      Dogmatism Be Damned!
      7 min read

    Related categories

    Reviews for Protagoras

    3.5/5

    58 ratings4 reviews

    What did you think?

    Tap to rate

    Review must be at least 10 words

    • 5/5
      I twice tried to read the Lombardo Bell translation and failed, so obtained this one. It's clear and naturalistic, just like Plato should be, with perhaps a little of that zing and pzazz of the best translations. It also has excellent notes. Don't be put off by the rather dense introduction - it's designed to guide further thought once you've read the dialogue.
    • 5/5
      A great Plato dialogue, both from literary and philosophic point of views. Vivid characters in a true duel of ideas, from one side Socrate and from the other side, Protagoras, the great sophist master. The dispute is thrilling, punctuated by irony and with a somewhat surprising end. Interesting is that the sophist is not presented as a plain deceiver and it doesn't seem to be the purpose of the dialogue to show that. Instead, it seems the whole idea is to present the power of the dialectical method as way to find knowlegue, independent on individual opinions. As such it makes philsophy a superior approach as the traditional sophist one.
    • 4/5
      This I feel is one of Plato's later dialogues, though it is still very Socratic in form. It is believed that the main part of the dialogue (it is not really a dialogue in that it seems to be more like a retelling of an earlier event, an event which most likely occurred before Plato was born, than a first hand account of a discussion). However, I also note that there is no reference to the theory of Forms, so it appears that this particular work is probably more Socratic than Platonic.As I have mentioned, the discussion (for want of a better word) is set about fifty years (or more) before the dialogue (for want of a better word) was published. At the time, Athens was at the height of her power, and the thirty year long Peloponesian War had yet to begin. A famous philosopher, named Protagoras, who was aged around 65 at the time (according to the translator of the version that I read) was visiting Athens, and one of Socrates' friends (Socrates was aged around 35 at the time, so had yet to become the Socrates that we all know and love) wanted to go and give money to this guy to become a student. Hearing this, and obviously a little disturbed about the whole thing, Socrates decides to go with his friend to meet Protagoras (Protagoras was actually quite famous at the time, so it wasn't as if some unknown had appeared in Athens and started sprouting a lot of rubbish).One thing I found interesting was when we first meet Protagoras. The discussion between Socrates and his friend at first sounded as if his friend may have been seduced into joining some sort of cult. Basically give this guy money and he will teach you how to be a good and moral person. Remember, Socrates actually did this for free because he did not believe that one should have to pay to be taught how to be a good and moral person. This was not like learning how to argue (rhetoric), as the text suggests, but morality. Anyway, when we first meet Protagoras, we see him with a group of Athenians clustered around him listening to him intently, and a larger group of followers eagerly taging along behind (I guess they had already paid their money). To me, Protagoras really does sound like some sort of Jim Jones.Anyway, I should actually talk about the discussion between Socrates and Protagoras, and it is the question of whether one can be taught morality. Protagoras says that yes it can, but of course he is going to take that line because he is making money out of teaching people morality. Socrates does not necessarily take the opposite view (he never does) but rather tries to poke holes in Protagoras' argument. In a sense Socrates takes the line that experience cannot be taught, and morality is something that is learnt through experience. As we interact with people we learn what upsets them and what does not upset them, and we tend to drift towards not wanting to upset them. In a way, it goes back to the basic Socratic principle of nobody does wrong willingly (which I sort of don't agree with, but if we accept that people's sense of morality is subjective as opposed to objective, then that is the case).Now, there are some interesting things that do come out of this dialogue. Protagoras tells a story of two demi-gods, Thinxahead and Thinxtolate, who are given the takes of designing and creating life on Earth. Thinxtolate decides to take it all on himself, and hands out all of these gifts to the animals to allow them to survive, but when he gets to humanity, all of the gifts have run out, so there is nothing left for them. However, Thinxahead decides to give humanity the gift of wisdom and intelligence, and to do that, he steals it from the gods. In a way it is similar (but no where near identical to) the Genesis account where humanity is given the breath of life from God, which sets them apart from the animal kingdom.Then there is the idea of cowardice and bravery. Socrates seems to take the position that people are cowards due to ignorance: cowardice is the fear of the unknown. People are cowards because they are ignorant of the action (and I must agree with that, because I have known cowards that are cowards because they simply accept that they can't do something because they do not believe they can do it, which is ignorance), however bravery is being able to respect what is known. I don't think Socrates meant that bravery is taking on a fully armed Spartan soldier with a straw hat, that's not brave, that's stupid. As a side note, he suggests that Spartans are wiser than the Athenians because of their ability to make piffy one liners (much like many of Arnold Swartzenegger's characters, which I would hardly call wise).The conclusion is that there is no real conclusion (as happens with many of Plato's dialogues, because he wants us to work it out for ourselves rather than spoon feeding us). Protagoras simply says that he is sick of talking to Socrates and will continue the discussion later (but also praises Socrates on his ability to argue and says he will one day become a great philosopher, no doubt something added by Plato), and Socrates simply says that it is getting late, he has things that he has to do, and pretty much goes home.
    • 3/5
      The famed Greek mathematician, Plato, and Socrates.

    Book preview

    Protagoras - Plato

    Protagoras by Plato

    Translated by Benjamin Jowett

    For someone whose influence has been so profound on Western thinking remarkably little is known of the Greek philosopher and thinker Plato.

    Due to the means and social status of his family Plato was most probably educated by some of Athens' finest teachers. The curriculum would have been rich and varied and include the doctrines of Cratylus and Pythagoras as well as Parmenides.

    Two major events shaped Plato’s life whilst he was a young man.  The first was a meeting with the great philosopher Socrates. Socrates's methods of debate impressed Plato and he soon became a devoted follower. From here would flow Plato’s career as one of the finest minds civilization has produced.

    Major event number two was the on-going rivalry between Athens and Sparta which erupted into the Peloponnesian War.  This was, in fact, several ‘stop-start’ wars fought during the period 431–404 BCE.  Plato served in the cause of Athens and its Allies between 409 and 404 B.C.E. The comprehensive defeat of Athens by Sparta ended the Athenian democracy, although after a brief oligarchy it was restored.  

    Plato traveled for a dozen years throughout the Mediterranean, studying mathematics with the Pythagoreans in Italy, as well as geometry, geology, astronomy and religion in Egypt. It was during this time that Plato began his writings, a remarkable number of which survive to this day.

    The writings themselves are usually classified into three distinct periods although there is some uncertainty as to the exact order in which they were written.

    Having now returned to Athens Plato embarked upon an extraordinary undertaking.  In around 385 B.C.E., he established a school of learning, known as the Academy. The extensive curriculum included astronomy, biology, mathematics, political theory and philosophy. Plato hoped that those who studied there would be future leaders who would be better equipped thorough its teachings to understand how to build a better government. Plato would preside over its teachings until his death in Athens around 348 B.C.E.

    Index of Contents

    Introduction

    Persons of the Dialogue

    Scene

    PROTAGORAS

    Plato – A Short Biography

    Plato – A Concise Bibliography

    INTRODUCTION

    The Protagoras, like several of the Dialogues of Plato, is put into the mouth of Socrates, who describes a conversation which had taken place between himself and the great Sophist at the house of Callias—'the man who had spent more upon the Sophists than all the rest of the world'—and in which the learned Hippias and the grammarian Prodicus had also shared, as well as Alcibiades and Critias, both of whom said a few words—in the presence of a distinguished company consisting of disciples of Protagoras and of leading Athenians belonging to the Socratic circle. The dialogue commences with a request on the part of Hippocrates that Socrates would introduce him to the celebrated teacher. He has come before the dawn had risen—so fervid is his zeal. Socrates moderates his excitement and advises him to find out 'what Protagoras will make of him,' before he becomes his pupil.

    They go together to the house of Callias; and Socrates, after explaining the purpose of their visit to Protagoras, asks the question, 'What he will make of Hippocrates.' Protagoras answers, 'That he will make him a better and a wiser man.' 'But in what will he be better?'—Socrates desires to have a more precise answer. Protagoras replies, 'That he will teach him prudence in affairs private and public; in short, the science or knowledge of human life.'

    This, as Socrates admits, is a noble profession; but he is or rather would have been doubtful, whether such knowledge can be taught, if Protagoras had not assured him of the fact, for two reasons: (1) Because the Athenian people, who recognize in their assemblies the distinction between the skilled and the unskilled in the arts, do not distinguish between the trained politician and the untrained; (2) Because the wisest and best Athenian citizens do not teach their sons political virtue. Will Protagoras answer these objections?

    Protagoras explains his views in the form of an apologue, in which, after Prometheus had given men the arts, Zeus is represented as sending Hermes to them, bearing with him Justice and Reverence. These are not, like the arts, to be imparted to a few only, but all men are to be partakers of them. Therefore the Athenian people are right in distinguishing between the skilled and unskilled in the arts, and not between skilled and unskilled politicians. (1) For all men have the political virtues to a certain degree, and are obliged to say that they have them, whether they have them or not. A man would be thought a madman who professed an art which he did not know; but he would be equally thought a madman if he did not profess a virtue which he had not. (2) And that the political virtues can be taught and acquired, in the opinion of the Athenians, is proved by the fact that they punish evil-doers, with a view to prevention, of course—mere retribution is for beasts, and not for men. (3) Again, would parents who teach her sons lesser matters leave them ignorant of the common duty of citizens? To the doubt of Socrates the best answer is the fact, that the education of youth in virtue begins almost as soon as they can speak, and is continued by the state when they pass out of the parental control. (4) Nor need we wonder that wise and good fathers sometimes have foolish and worthless sons. Virtue, as we were saying, is not the private possession of any man, but is shared by all, only however to the extent of which each individual is by nature capable. And, as a matter of fact, even the worst of civilized mankind will appear virtuous and just, if we compare them with savages. (5) The error of Socrates lies in supposing that there are no teachers of virtue, whereas all men are teachers in a degree. Some, like Protagoras, are better than others, and with this result we ought to be satisfied.

    Socrates is highly delighted with the explanation of Protagoras. But he has still a doubt lingering in his mind. Protagoras has spoken of the virtues: are they many, or one? are they parts of a whole, or different names of the same thing? Protagoras replies that they are parts, like the parts of a face, which have their several functions, and no one part is like any other part. This admission, which has been somewhat hastily made, is now taken up and cross-examined by Socrates:—

    'Is justice just, and is holiness holy? And are justice and holiness opposed to one another?'—'Then justice is unholy.' Protagoras would rather say that justice is different from holiness, and yet in a certain point of view nearly the same. He does not, however, escape in this way from the cunning of Socrates, who inveigles him into an admission that everything has but one opposite. Folly, for example, is opposed to wisdom; and folly is also opposed to temperance; and therefore temperance and wisdom are the same. And holiness has been already admitted to be nearly the same as justice. Temperance, therefore, has now to be compared with justice.

    Protagoras, whose temper begins to get a little ruffled at the process to which he has been subjected, is aware that he will soon be compelled by the dialectics of Socrates to admit that the temperate is the just. He therefore defends himself with his favourite weapon; that is to say, he makes a long speech not much to the point, which elicits the applause of the audience.

    Here occurs a sort of interlude, which commences with a declaration on the part of Socrates that he cannot follow a long speech, and therefore he must beg Protagoras to speak shorter. As Protagoras declines to accommodate him, he rises to depart, but is detained by Callias, who thinks him unreasonable in not allowing Protagoras the liberty which he takes himself of speaking as he likes. But Alcibiades answers that the two cases are not parallel. For Socrates admits his inability to speak long; will Protagoras in like manner acknowledge his inability to speak short?

    Counsels of moderation are urged first in a few words by Critias, and then by Prodicus in balanced and sententious language: and Hippias proposes an umpire. But who is to be the umpire? rejoins Socrates; he would rather suggest as a compromise that Protagoras shall ask and he will answer, and that when Protagoras is tired of asking he himself will ask and Protagoras shall answer. To this the latter yields a reluctant assent.

    Protagoras selects as his thesis a poem of Simonides of Ceos, in which he professes to find a contradiction. First the poet says,

    'Hard is it to become good,'

    and then

    Enjoying the preview?
    Page 1 of 1