Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Great Jedi Purge (2 nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is strongly on the side of keeping. Aside from that, a batch nomination was inappropriate here. If anything, these articles should be judged individually. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 00:49, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Great Jedi Purge

Also nominated:

These are all articles about plot elements and events from the Star Wars series. Wikipedia is not Wookieepedia; more specifically WP:NOT#PLOT prohibits articles for plot only descriptions of works of fiction. In addition, WP:WAF establishes that articles about topics in fictional universes must be independently notable, as established by reliable, independent sources. WP:INUNIVERSE outlines some of the problems keeping articles solely devoted to plot details. NB: Great Jedi Purge has been nominated before, but community standards have changed. The main rationale of keep voters was that it was relevant to multiple works within the fictional series, not that it was notable outside the fictional series. Savidan 01:42, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Even this list, clustered by franchise, is a bit complicated. I recommend a redirect for the planets to the List of..., unless someone can point to any of them that contain a large enough chunk of production and real-world info. to make a merge of that content unwieldy; anything beginning with "Jedi" can redirect to Jedi; the YZ invasion redirect to New Jedi Order. The others -- Galactic Civil War and Great Jedi Purge -- I'm iffy on. They are significant plot elements covered in numerous Star Wars works; a redirect simply to Star Wars is plausible. Regardless -- I appreciate Savidan's boldness in trying to move out a collection of cruft, but I fear even this abbreviated list of items (compared to ~40-item AfD earlier) might also lead to some split decisions; I predict, at least, that the consensus will be that none of these articles is in even remotely good shape; beyond that, no bets. --EEMIV (talk) 02:27, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It seems to me that most of these articles are worthy of a Wikipedia entry, but that practically all of them need to be rewritten from an in-universe style into a non-fictional perspective with legitimate, verifiable sources. They need serious work from that perspective, yes, but as a long time Star Wars fan I can tell you that there are a lot of sources out there that talk about these topics from a non-fictional standpoint. Simply deleting them is not the way to go here, and if they are kept, I would be willing to work on them to bring them up to Wikipedia standards... — Hunter Kahn _(c) 02:32, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Even if the articles themselves have problems to be fixed, fictional locations and events are viable subjects for Wikipedia articles. See, e.g., Lake Wobegon, Hogwarts, Castle Grayskull, The West Wing presidential election, 2006, Crisis_on_Infinite_Earths, etc. (I reject WP:OTHERSTUFF as fundamentally detrimental to Wikipedia, but other editors should consider this before accepting my reasoning.) I support User:EEMIV's suggestion that most of the planets redirect to Important planets in the Star Wars universe or somesuch, but that is beyond the scope of AFD. - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 03:10, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect Jedi Purge to the ROTS article, Yuuzhan Vong invasion to the NJO article, the Jedi articles to Jedi, Galactic Civil War, tentatively, to Star Wars#Prequel trilogy, and the planets either to the films they appeared in (V, V, II, II, IV, none) or a list of planets. Sceptre ^(talk) 03:14, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The Great Jedi Purge is a large topic all on its own, therefor simply ridirecting it to Star Wars would not be very plausible at all. Nor would deleting it be plausible. This may not be Wookieepedia, but this is still a place where people can share relevent information freely, and this information is obviously relevent to someone.

Weak keep for Dagobah and Jedi Council; delete the remainder. Dagobah has the potential for some real-world context. (I'm not saying that anything mentioned in a Weird Al song is notable, but it's a cultural reference nonetheless.) Likewise, Jedi Council is a likely search topic. It may need merged into another article (Jedi?), but it's a reasonable search term. The rest are too in-universe. —C.Fred (talk) 05:06, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ Comment If some of these articles can be merged with others then, by all means, do it. The topics may not be notable on their own, but I don't think we should push the notability requirement to a point where splitting of articles for readability becomes impossible. Yes, I think most of this stuff needs cleaning up but I don't think blanket AfDs are going to nail it. Addition: I withdrew my original "keep" recommendation after reading some of the articles. There as some, like the Jedi purge, that should probably survive. The most sensible way would be to first remove all the in-universe and condense the plot descriptions to a few sentences. The, see if the topic still warrants an article (in most cases, probably not). However this is never going to happen, so zapping some of those may be a good idea after all. Averell (talk) 11:56, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep. Every single one of these would need to be a redirect of some sort even if the content was removed, therefore deletion is patently inappropriate. Powers ^T 14:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly encourage splitting this out to avoid a trainwreck, but here goes anyway... Smerge Great Jedi Purge with the plot section of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Merge Yuuzhan Vong invasion to The New Jedi Order as the series is about the invasion, and while some cleanup is needed this isn't a horrible summary of the overall plot. Keep Galactic Civil War for now - this is the primary setting of the original films and many books, it should be salvageable in some form. I'd at least prefer a separate AfD for it, it's survived before. Merge elements of Jedi Academy with Yavin and Jedi Temple with Coruscant, the planets they're based on. Keep all planets except Mon Calamari (planet) as notable and important planets from the films, and useful depositories of articles about locations on such planets (as I did above). I'm too busy in real life to seriously look around right now, but there's probably real-world set location/design information out there that could be added to these as well. Redirect Mon Calamari to List of Star Wars planets (M–N), its claim to notability is much more limited than the other planets listed. Finally, merge Jedi Council into Jedi, it's basically a subtopic of Jedi and can be incorporated into the structure section. BryanG (talk) 14:51, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the planets; except for Mon Cal they have all received significant screen time in the major films and can thus be expanded with lots of out of universe information. Mon Calamari has also been featured in multiple works. Keep Yuuzhan Vong invasion and Galactic Civil War. These are both major story arcs that have been featured in many, many works, especially the GCW. The 4 "Jedi" articles remaining can probably be Merged and redirected to Jedi. Firestorm ^Talk 15:04, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all as elements of a very notable fictional universe. No objection to cleanup or properly-discussed mergers to trim things down, but these topics have coverage in reliable secondary sources. Jclemens (talk) 16:45, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. —Jclemens (talk) 16:51, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. —Jclemens (talk) 16:51, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all If you aren't a well read fan of the series, you shouldn't be mass nominating all of these things for deletion. I agree that these are notable elements of a very notable fictional universe. Dream Focus 23:43, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep all. All are notable. No question about it. Possibly a snow close soon. Malinaccier (talk) 01:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge locations to the list of locations ; Merge the Jedi articles to the Jedi article ; Merge the wars to a Timeline of wars in Star Wars article or somesuch ; 76.66.192.91 (talk) 05:42, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep- This page should be kept, but it should be improved some. Parker1297 (talk) 00:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please consider User:BryanG's recommendations above. — AjaxSmack 03:45, 19 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.