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Hesse vs. Hessen

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Hi

first time on this website and also i'm realy impressed i noticed an error an wanted to now what to do about it and how ?

The Error: 

  The State should be called "Hessen" and not "Hesse". Hesse could be used 
  in a sentence like "he is an californian" -> "he is a hesse" and in german 
  "Er ist ein Hesse."
Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. According to the article, it's Hessen in German, but Hesse in French and English. Is this incorrect? --[ADITION] No, that is not correct. Depending on context and the way things are phrased in German, it will either be Hesse or Hessen. For example, "Ich bin ein Hesse," (I am a Hesse) versus "Ich komm aus Hessen," (I come from Hessen). Tim Starling 02:04, Feb 3, 2004 (UTC)
No it really is called Hesse in English. Rmhermen 02:08, Feb 3, 2004 (UTC)
And the equivalent of "Er ist ein Hesse" would be "He is a Hessian". Nunh-huh 02:12, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
But this is very funny: "Hessen is also the name of the German writer Hermann Hesse, as well as the German mathematician Otto Hesse." (You know: Chile is also the name of the german minister Otto Schily, Helmut Kohl also the name of german president Horst Köhler)

It's not really good English, but instead it's copying the French, like with Cologne and Munich, to say "Hesse"--if it has to be changed from the German, it should be changed to a more decidedly English form of "Hessia." But unfortunately, I haven't been able to persuade a majority of the English-speaking world of this yet.

Well, what does "good English" mean if it is just a private preference? For historical reasons, Hessen is called Hesse in English (and I don't think it's borrowing from French, but even if it where, so it would be then) is the word people will search for, check, etc. I think it is completely contrary to Wiki policy, and also not helpful, to go about and change this to "Hessia" because of a personal idiosyncracy. Clossius

Hesse-Darmstadt had sided with the winning Prussia.

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"It managed to defend its autonomy because in the War of 1866 it had sided with the winning Prussia." That's false. In fact both the "Grand Duchy of Hesse" (Hesse-Darmstadt) and the "Electorate of Hesse" (Hesse-Kassel) joined the Austrian side. A reason for the retention of the autonomy/independence of Hesse-Darmstadt could have been the family relations of the ruling family with the British and the Russian ruling dynasties. As consequence of the war Hesse-Darmstadt had to pay 3 million guldens at Prussia and accept the annexation of the landgraviate (Landgrafschaft) Homburg, parts of the districts of Gießen, Rödelheim, Niederursel with a total area of 830 qkm and a number of inhabitants of about 47.000. In exchange it received parts of Katzenberg, Nanheim, Reichelsheim, Trais, Dortelweil and Haarheim (about 83 qkm with 12.000 inhabitants). saftwuerstel 12:30, 19 Jun 2005

The family relations between the ruling family of Hesse-Darmstadt and the British ruling dynasty were definitely not the reason for preserving the independence of Hesse-Darmstadt after it lost the war against Prussia in 1866. The family relations between the British royal family and the king of Hanover had been far closer than the relations between Hesse-Darmstadt and the British ruling dynasty. Nevertheless Hanover was annexed by Prussia following the war of 1866. As far as I know, the main reason for not annexing Hesse-Darmstadt was that Prussia had no interest in provoking France at that time. Prussia needed some additional years to prepare war against France in 1866. As well, Prussia wanted to win Austria as a future ally after 1866. Prussia definitely had no interest in provoking Austria more than necessary. Blinder Seher 16:41, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hessen

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It's really called "Hessen" - never "Hesse". {ADDITION} that's not true, in the German language, it is called "Hesse" a lot. The Americans from the Wiesbaden-Erbenheim Airbase also say "Hessen". They should know the spelling.

If you're in California you might end up saying "California" as well, even in German -- but still the German name for it is "Kalifornien", just as "Hesse" is the English name for "Hessen". Look it up: [1] (and compare it to [2]) -- H005 09:30, 21 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, I hate the English name too but unfortunately that's life! – Jared Preston 10:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • sorry guys...this is not about language...it is called Hessen as a matter of fact. You wouldn't call florida florid ... now would you? We need to change this!
No, we wouldn't because Florida is English like Hesse is. Charles 03:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

UserDoe 01:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hessen again

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I realise that the discussion about the official English name has been dormant for quite a while, but I'd like to reopen it. In Europe, nothing is a matter of personal taste. There are guidelines for everything, and the English style guide posted by the European Commission clearly states on page 98 that the English name for Hessen is Hessen. --DrTorstenHenning 19:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This just seems a matter of English-speaking arrogance: If we change their names (like "California" into "Kalifornien"), they seem to want to be allowed to change German Names, too. So they do it without any sense. Every German, and probably most English-speaking who have already visited Hessen, know that "Hessen" is the right spelling, but here, in the anarchic Wikipedia, they just don't care. They must be allowed to change names into senselessness. Funny thing about it is: The local dialect pronounces "Hessen" as "Hesse" as well, so maybe some English-speaker had picked it up from them and by now convinced most part of the Wikipedians that it has to be right. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.178.227.190 (talk) 04:29:44, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
So it's okay to call California "Kalifornien", but it is not okay for anglophones to use the established English name for this area? Hesse predates Wikipedia, my ignorant friend. I'm sure if I had never heard of Hesse like some people who visit it, I might be mistaken into using the German name in English. Hessen, however, is not the English name. Charles 04:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Could you provide any authoritative source for that? Otherwise, it looks like we have to distinguish between the "ancient" Hesse, which was a sovereign entity, and between today's Hessen, which is a Land of the Federal Republic of Germany. By the way, in Germany we do not change names and geographical objects of countries or regions where German is not an official language as we please. We look them up in "Selected Exonyms of the German Language", which is a list maintained by our Government's Permanent Committee on Geographical Names (StAGN). --DrTorstenHenning 10:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? Couldn't you say that the genius committee to which you look to is the one that changes names? Charles 11:26, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What is your point? First: Can you provide any reputable source that says that the name of the state that I live in is not "Hessen"? Then we would have to decide which of our sources is to be believed. second: The Committee that you do not seem to like prevents the arbitrary Germanisation of foreign names, so why do I feel a certain resentment against it in your words? --DrTorstenHenning 12:07, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The point is, I don't resent it. I don't mind going to Germany (I am of pure paternal German descent, by the way) and being told about how people have enjoyed visiting Kanada or Neuschottland (I have heard and read both) and I wouldn't even mind being called Karl, Carlos, Karel or Carlo!. I've been called all of those and more. To me, this seems to be your personal opinion of the state you live in. I never said the state you lived in was not Hessen. That's like you telling me that I don't like in Kanada. I do, but it is called Canada in my language just as Hesse is called that in English. At this point, calling it anything else is akin to the Turin/Torino thing. Otherwise-unknowing people were exposed to the local form not terribly common in English, but that doesn't change the English name. Charles 12:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So should the article say that (a) "Hessen" is an alternative English name or (b) the German name "Hessen" is often used in English texts as well (footnote: particularly those prepared for or by the European Commission, reference!)? --DrTorstenHenning 13:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I should say that the German form, Hessen, is used occasionally in English in lieu of the form Hesse. Charles 23:08, 19 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
@DrTorstenHenning: It is definitely not true, that we don't use specific German names for geographical objects of countries or regions where German is not an official language. Of course, we do call California Kalifornien in German, like Kanada instead of Canada or Spanien instead of España. Where is the problem? Why do not use the English word Hesse in English texts? I am from Hesse as well, and I don't have a problem with the traditional English name. If there is a specific English name for our state, it seems that the English regard Hesse as worth having a specific English name. Finally it's true, that the country's name in the south Hessian dialect is Hesse too; the English use the hessian name for Hesse. :-) Blinder Seher 16:24, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Did I ever claim anything different? I just stated that the German names we use are standardised. And the reason for not using the English Hesse in contemporary English is simple: if an overwhelming majority of English speakers uses the German form Hessen, including, as I stated, the European Commission, and the Americans who live here, why shouldn't I? After all, we quit saying Neu-York and Got[h]enburg in German as well, even though these are the traditional German names for New York and Göteborg, so why shouldn't the global trend towards using the native names wherever possible (Mumbai, Kolkata, Myanmar, Warszawa, ...) continue? --DrTorstenHenning 13:32, 4 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry to say this...but...It's called Hessen, i used to work and live in Hessen a while ago. I never spelled it "Hesse" "Hesse" is only used in terms of "Der Hesse" means that this person lives in Hessen. It's somehow embarrassing to see it here as "Hesse" unwilling to be changed. We need to change it, or we might look arrogant and selfish.

UserDoe 01:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't matter if you don't spell it Hesse or not, it is Hesse in English. Be embarrassed all you want, you ought to be with all of this ignorance on what is English and what is not. Charles 03:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dead Gummit, I'm hessian and demand that you change it so it's "HESSEN!", for f*cks sake. Jesus Christ, it's not that hard to see that it makes alot more sense. What if we start callin' the US and A "Vereinigte Staaten von Amerik" ("United States of Americ") because we like to take letters away without thinking. Most of my english/american friends call me a "Hessian" and say "Oh, you're from Hessen, eh?" and say german things like "Wie geht's" ("How are you?"). So again: ITS HESSEN and "Hesse" doesn't make sense. It's kinda perplexing when you read "Hesse" (as a German) and then come up with the article about the state, since "Hesse" in German means "Hessian", so "Hesse" is either a Last Name or adressing the people from Hessia. Next time I read about some1 who's from Washington, I change the German article to "he comes from Washingt." And who (allegedly) defined that "Hesse" is english for my fine and lovely homestate? Was one of them Tommies for sure, eh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.206.181 (talk) 05:58, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear IP, you can do whatever you want in the German Wikipedia. We even allow you to have an article de:Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika although we call them United States. Whether de:Vereinigte Staaten von Amerik is fine please discuss in de:. --Cyfal (talk) 13:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Either it's Hessia (which is at least logical in English) or Hessen. What the fuck is Hesse even doing here? It's what you call people from Hessia/Hessen. Get rid of that shit asap.92.252.74.184 (talk) 19:17, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pronunciation?

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Was wondering if anyone knows how 'Hesse' is actually pronounced. Is it pronounced 'Hess' with a silent e or 'Hessy' or what? It would be useful to include an IPA rendition of it at the article's head, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't know. [Addition] It is pronounced "Hesseh"

It is not pronounced at all. That word does not exist, except in some confused dusty books and heads. The country {Addition} (It is not a country, it is a state.) is pronounced "Hessen", in line with the official EU name of it.

Oh, and I've only ever heard it referred to as Hessen in the UK, even though we do use English translations for other states. See this page here http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/798fc53e-6532-11dc-bf89-0000779fd2ac.html and look at the 5th paragraph down. Any google news search for 'Hessen' will show you that this article is not alone. Perhaps partly because of the problems with pronunciation, Hessen is always used colloquially, in my experience. Surely Wikipedia should follow colloquial trends? After all, the page for Gdansk is not called Dansic, and the page for Krakow isn't Cracow. Why should Hessen be any different?

You actually mentioned two of the most disputed names on Wikipedia. Charles 23:39, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, looking at their talk pages, I see I have, but still, the fact is, on these pages it was finally decided to use their current Polish names as opposed the older and increasingly redundant English versions. Oh, and do you know how to pronounce Hesse correctly? Please someone add a pronunciation! I have nothing against the English word at all (although I'd prefer Hessia) but if no one knows how to pronounce this word, then surely it's only a matter of time before it becomes completely redundant. Perhaps if you're eager to preserve the English version, a pronunciation guide might encourage its use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.212.13 (talk) 23:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Its pronounced Hess (Ryming with bess or tess), it has a different name in English to German as the German form is technically unpronouncable with English sylables as with names like Köln. Arguably even Paris has a different name in French to English because its pronounced differently for similar reasons. Hessia is a stupid word and dosen't follow any real naming convention as the Hesse part should be in Latin for the translation, Hesseland would probably be more 'conventional' but the whole disscussion of the sbject is pointless. To reiterate, places have different names in different languages normally because the name in the home language is unpronoucable with the available sounds or because it includes propper words like land, Kingdom...ECT.(86.31.182.119 (talk) 23:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

I'm hesitant to add to this juvenile argument about nomenclature, but "Hesse" is also pronounced "Hessy" in English. That's hɛsi in IPA [1] Make sure to scroll down to the Geographic name section; the first entry is for the author. I'm an American who goes back and forth to Hesse/Hessen multiple times a year. With my smarter Americans I always say "Hessy" for the state. With Germans or dumber Americans I always say "Hessen" because I don't want to be dragged into the kind of stupid Besserwisser argument like the one above. It's not worth the time it takes to explain to somebody who just can't believe English uses different names from German sometimes.

References

  1. ^ https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Hesse

Name dispute, hopefully the last time

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Hi. I haven't been part of the previous disputes, but I must admit, I am a bit disturbed by the insistence of those users who insisted that English "Hesse" is incorrect. I am a Hessian, learnt to use the correct English form Hesse in school, and have always used it. In English literature, it goes back at least to the 18th century (for example, it is used in the 1777 satire "The Sale of the Hessians", sometimes ascribed to Benjamin Franklin).

The State Government of Hesse (Hessische Landesregierung) uses "Hesse", as visible here and here. They should know.

Other examples are the German Museum of Architecture (here) and the German Academic Exchange Service (DAAD - here).

The 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica exclusively uses the term Hesse (see here), which turns up in its index more than 300 times.

athinaios 22:20, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is ridiculous. While the English name "Hesse" may not be technically incorrect for those who insist that the entire world should speak English, the name of the state is Hessen and it is referred to in more official and unofficial sources than not at Hessen. It serves no purpose to call it Hesse. Reference on a Hessian government English language web site that refers to it as Hesse, does not change the name - it just shows their choice of being, perhaps, politically correct. But are they? On one offical Hessen English laguange Hessian web page, nNote that in the upper right corner of the site, in the photo of the crest of Hessen, they spell it "Hessen". Note that on the German page they call it it Hessen. The official name is the name used in the country it is in, not bastardized by some haughty Englishman. And, on a German language Wikipedia site, they should call California, California, not Kalifornien. And then they can refer to it as "in German Kalifornien" but the name is and always will be California. But wait, having said that, on an English Wikipedia site must we say "Espana" and not Spain? And so on and so on? That's why this debate is so ridiculous. However, I have owned a house in North Hessen for more than 25 years, have always referred to the state as Hessen and it was only today in doing Wikipedia research that I learned that in English it is SOMETIMES, but not always referred to as "Hesse" . . . Hesse to me is Hermann Hesse, for better or for worse. But a rose by any other name is still a rose, I guess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.188.148.67 (talk) 18:40, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

was stationed there, rammstein, nobody called it 'hesse'. we called it 'hessen'. yeah, yeah...wikipedia always wants to be right; whatever. but this time you guys are dead wrong. period.

Ramstein Air Base (spelled with one "m") is in Rhineland-Palatinate. Lars T. (talk) 03:11, 23 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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http://www.hessischpedia.de/wiki/Hauptseite is not an official site of the state of Hesse nor part of the Wikipedia-Project. Therfeore removed "Official"-description of link. I even doubt if this project should be linked at all. --92.224.105.175 (talk) 17:40, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Section on Death Penalty?

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Does the status of the death penalty in Hesse--or anywhere--really call for a top level section of its own? I could see it, if Wikipedia were a sort of clearing house of information on the status of supposedly progressive issues; in some ways, I find it is that, here and there, but I don't think it's meant to be. If each and every article concerning a civil jurisdiction is to have a special section devoted to the status of protection of convicted criminals, I think it should also have a section on the status of protection of innocent human beings in the womb from slaughter. 140.147.236.194 (talk) 14:23, 2 February 2011 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza[reply]

Should be moved to a subsection of Politics, imho. Regards, --20% (talk) 19:10, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

the GDP can be read from http://www.statistik-hessen.de/themenauswahl/gesamtwirtschaft-konjunktur/landesdaten/bip-wirtschaftsbereichen/grundzahlen-bruttoinlandsprodukt-bruttowertschoepfung/index.html (a official hessisch site) see here BIP what is Bruttoinlandsprodukt. --greets from Grebenhain in Hessen. WolfHenk-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.43.110.70 (talk) 04:49, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The sentence that "Some people think that Article 21 of the Hessian constitution should be deleted, for if there is no death penalty it cannot be used" is meaningless. There is a death penalty in one constitution and not in another. To say that "if there is no death penalty it cannot be used" is ridiculous tautology. I suggest that this should be changed to "There is some support for amending Article 21 of the Hessian constitution to remove the death sentence, as it cannot be enforced given the prohibition in the Federal Constitution on the death penalty".Royalcourtier (talk) 07:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Opening Nonsense

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The cultural region of Hesse includes both the State of Hesse and the area known as Rhenish Hesse (Rheinhessen) in the neighbouring Rhineland-Palatinate state. The oldest city of the cultural region of Hesse, Mainz, is in Rhineland-Palatinate. Well this is fiction. Hessen is the moderen form of the name of the Chatten a Germanic tribe located in the region south of Kassel. Later the rulers of Hessen succeed land arround Darmstadt. Cultural Mainz was and is never a Hessian city. The use of the name Rheinhessen is a PR trick of the rulers of Darmstadt a younger branch of the House of Hesse to legitimate their rulership about the Mainz area for a short time (1806-1918).

Chatten and Frisians are the only two germanic tribes that were never pushed out of their homeland. Well Frisians coulden move in Migration Period because of the North Sea in their back an also roman empire never reaches their land. But Hessen resist against the roman empire and the Migration Period. So dont mess with us and tell souch a shit about cultural region and Mainz. Hessians will come back to America. This time we will do it without the Brits in supreme command and we will find you! ;-) 95.222.221.150 (talk) 20:11, 7 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Sports subject line, only with Frankfurt based clubs?

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Hello,

I think there is an issue with the Sports subject line. From my view it should be shifted to the city description of Frankfurt and removed from this article about the State of Hesse. Thanks and Happy Boxing Day. --Pablo789aq (talk) 17:01, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When you Google 'Hesse'

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Hi,

I noticed something odd when I Google searched 'Hesse', on the link to the Wikipedia article it is prefaced with "Every single person reading this is gay except for of course me and my girl friend.:) For the writer, see Hermann Hesse. For other persons, see Hesse (surname)." Not quite sure how this happened nor what to do about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.75.24.219 (talk) 16:30, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi 79.75.24.219. The page was vandalised a few days ago with this text, and from my understanding, Google doesn't update changes to articles very often. The text is not in the article, so I believe it should disappear from the description in a day or so. I'm afraid there's nothing we can do about it until then. aboideautalk 16:51, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:50, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Map

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The map in the infobox seems to have a small area in the vicinity of Ober-Laudenbach highlighted, rather than highlighting the state as one would expect. Does anyone know why this is or how it can be fixed? – Arms & Hearts (talk) 15:56, 30 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

there is an area called hessen on the OSM map there, so i assume someone made a tagging mistake, or a page merge mistake at some point. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:53, 10 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I had a go at fixing it by adding from=Hessen.map to the {{maplink}} template, but that seems to only work in preview, and when you click through to the map – the highlight doesn't show in the actual article. I'm still none the wiser as to where the incorrect map is coming from, as the template documentation seems to fairly clearly suggest it should take commons:Data:Hessen.map as the source anyway, since it's in the relevant Wikidata page (and the incorrect map definitely isn't). Is there any reason not to just use File:Locator map Hesse in Germany.svg? – Arms & Hearts (talk) 19:19, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I've been bold and done it. It's already been done (independently) on several of the other German states' articles – Lower Saxony, Saxony, Saxony-Anhalt, Thuringia and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern – as their maps don't work either (among may others it would seem). Alphathon /'æɫ.fə.θɒn/ (talk) 04:15, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've got a bit more info about this. Apparently the new-style map should work with one major caveat: if the page is previewed the blank map (which is what is rendered first) is cached and therefore that is what is displayed for several hours until the cache is updated. I have tried this in a sandbox and it seems to hold up, more-or-less. The FAQ on Module talk:Mapframe suggests it should take "an hour or two" but on my sandbox test it took much longer than that (I don't know how long, but less than a day). However, on Saxony, which has the map displayed below the infobox, its blank cached map didn't seem to have been replaced even after more than two weeks without an edit (I edited the page yesterday but before I did the map was still blank; the previous edit was on 16 October). It is possible that someone previewed an edit but didn't submit it in that time of course.
I am of the opinion that until this issue is sorted the new-style maps should be avoided at least on high-traffic/-edit-frequency pages such as the German states, as they simply don't seem reliable enough. Alphathon /'æɫ.fə.θɒn/ (talk) 19:20, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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