User talk:Bishonen

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El C's chipmunk squirrel of the day bridge

Geogre's flower of the day

MONGO's Grand Teton of the day

Swimming Bishapod of every day, making for Jenny Lake !

Requests for adminship and bureaucratship update No current discussions. Recent RfAs, recent RfBs: (successful, unsuccessful)

Programming wish

Hi Bishonen! General question -- can you point me to the techies who recently allowed us more review on our watchlist? I have a "wish", as my watchlist grows and grows, to be able to sort the list by topic. I would like to be able to call up list A, B, or C - and review activity in those specific areas. Does this sound like others might find it useful too? If you know anyone who is doing programming in this area, please let me know. WBardwin 23:51, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay, W. You're supposed to request stuff like that at Wikipedia:Bugzilla. But... I don't quite know how to put this. Perhaps I've just been unlucky. But the fact is, I've taken away the impression that the developers like to give us nifty new features that they come up with themselves... but don't so much like fulfilling requests. At least, any requests that I've made (that's maybe like, uh, one), or that I know of that friends/wikiacquaintances have made, have just, well, been sucked into the Bugzilla and never heard of again. You never get a reply, or learn why your request isn't being entertained. At least that's my experience. It's been a while since I tried, so the nerds may have gotten more gracious, I don't know. Summary: apply at Bugzilla, but don't get your hopes up. Bishonen | talk 23:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for the note -- no hurry about my stuff, usually anyway. I agree that "Bugzilla's" reputation is less than steller. I think I've put in two requests -- apparently into the ozone. I put the note above on your page, on User:JRM's (who I've not seen lately) talk and on Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). I thought if I spread the idea around, someone might notice. And I know people read your talk page, if only for a smile! As I approach 600 pages on my watch (I know --only 600!), I find I would just really like to look at topics in isolation. For example, lately I've started working on articles on the Canadian/American Fur trade, 1820-1840, and some more distantly related articles as well. If I could sort those into a minor watchlist, I could keep track of what is happening to my most recent efforts. I thought that it would be useful for articles relating to any Wiki-project people belong to as well. Do you personally see a use for this feature? Best.....WBardwin 02:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

People are actually talking about it on the Village pump! Some of the ideas move much further along than mine -- but....... We shall see. WBardwin 05:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. There is really no hurry, just me trying to tweek the status quo as usual. Too bad about JRM. I always found him pleasant, helpful and knowledgable. But, sadly and increasingly, that seems to be the type of editor and administrator that ends up leaving Wikipedia. You have to wonder why. I hope something doesn't push you over the edge, Bishonen. But, then, you can always call up Bishzilla!! Best.............WBardwin 01:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... well, I believe JRM left because the wiki time expenditure was messing up RL for him. That was my impression. He kept the faith. I'm the opposite, I have time (currently) but little faith. I don't know if you've noticed how much the project is tipping over right now, from the Indians to the Chiefs, as it were. Well, I dunno, it probably always seemed that way. But I'm disillusioned, yes. Illustrations: this so-called Featured article review of one of my FAs. And this more recent encounter with the Biography Assessment Drive. Not so much fun anymore. I stop putting my stuff on FAC, I protest, many people protest, Geogre protests all the time, but I don't think any of us are getting through. Bishonen | talk 15:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC).

I'm sorry these creatures are hitting you hard. I find you to be an excellent writer and enjoy "your" articles, even if I know nothing about the topic. I've certainly noticed a more restrictive, argumentative environment since my extended absence at the turn of the year. Several things, including article assessment, frantic footnoting and increasingly authoritative templates, are getting under my skin as well. As a member of the biography project, I just placed a comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Assessment (Project is Subjective and Non-productive), but as the assessment trend is Wikipedia wide............? I presume that everyone is frantic to prove that Wikipedia is accurate and reliable in response to our periodic negative media exposure. But all of these efforts, IMO, are swinging far wide of the mark. I suspect there are many more moderate editors that would agree. How to find them is another matter. Hang in there! WBardwin 19:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Ice cream

A chocolate ice cream for one of our nicest administrators

Hi, Bishonen, I promised the monster that I would give you an ice cream if she returned my ice cream maker to me, and she very obligingly did so, damaging my hair rather badly in the process. (Thank goodness I have a hair straightener!) So, I'm keeping my promise, and offer you a chocolate ice cream. And while I'm here, thank you for all the good work you do around here. Although we don't seem to edit the same articles, I see a lot of the posts you make at admin noticeboards and at user talk pages which are on my watchlist. Cheers. ElinorD (talk) 01:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Update: Graphic situation for Bishapod

Hi, Miranda! I wasn't thinking of a banner so much. More an animated version of the portrait on his page. I would love to have an animation where the 'pod moves his tail and flippers. If the movements can suggest he's swimming, that would be even better.

I mean, more like Bunchograpes' animated Bishzillas. They aren't banners, you know? Here are the animated Bishzillas:

And here's the sadly stationary Bishapod:

Please make me move, Miranda! Let me roam free!

Bishonen | talk 16:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC).

Okay, I will do this later. Miranda 21:51, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, bish. I can't do this. :-( Miranda 03:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Try making your request at Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab. I am sure that they would like to help. Miranda 21:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Here's a piss poor effort to be struggling on with. He can't even swim properly, his tail goes one way and his feet go another. Yomangani^talk 00:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Yay! Miranda 00:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Her jaw and gills need to open and close. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel 07:57, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Chocolate sprinkles with that? Yomangani^talk 10:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Er... very nice, Yomangani. Thank you. Only... the poddie looks like he'd cross the Channel in about ten minutes with that incredibly forceful leg/flipper paddling. And looks a bit like a torpedo... Do you think you could, uh, impart a slightly gentler movement? Something like Bishzilla's scary blinking? (I'll take the sprinkles, yes, please.) Bishonen | talk 12:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC).

Now approaching the limit of time scheduled for the animation of Bishapod from my life:

• 16 July 2007 up to 10am: Animate fishapods, 10-2pm: Find cure for cancer 2pm: Coffee...I won't bore you with the rest of the day, it's mostly Nobel prize winning stuff and skateboarding. Yomangani^talk 13:32, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
• That's some very nice work. (Can you find a cure for coffee?) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

  Cure for coffee? But... coffee is the cure, for many things. "Cure for coffee" doesn't make sense. Confused puppy 14:34, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Nice nice Yomangani! Poddie swim! Now Yo-ma-ma animate proto-tetrapod-teddy stuffed toys, let roam free? Then we all have icecram lady's icecream! bishapod splash! 16:12, 16 July 2007 (UTC).

[Bishzilla gives great roar of despair, all little users whirl away in resulting tornados] DOWN PEST! Little Yomangani please excuse 'Zilla for creating El Maximo Stupido Sock! Go away Bishapod! ['Zilla slouches off to find out if there's any way to nuke existing pest account.] bishzilla _ROARR!! 16:15, 16 July 2007 (UTC).

Bad Faith?

Hi Bishonen. I never accused User:DreamGuy of bad faith. Did you read the entry in AN3RR? I merely wanted to point out that he violated the 3RR (he is also a repeat offender of the rule) in two separate articles which I made edits to. I didn't remove any other User:DreamGuy's comments except for the ones in the entry itself, where they tried to compromise the evidence. I was quite sure that the situation was clearly apparent. On the other hand, you might want to look at my entries on their talk page (which they apparently blanked) and their entries on mine. See the difference? Could anything else be done? Thanks for your help. Best, aNubiSIII ^{(T / C)} 13:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

What.. ? You certainly did. "remove vandalism by User:DreamGuy in their attempt to compromise information in entry " isn't an accusation of bad faith? [1]? See Wikipedia:Vandalism: "Any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia, even if misguided or ill-considered, is not vandalism. " Just don't throw the word around, please, especially not in edit summaries, where it can't be removed. Read Wikipedia:No personal attacks and Wikipedia:Vandalism#What vandalism is not. As for "attempt to compromise information in entry "... do I have to spell it out? Read WP:3RR too, and you'll see that the 3RR rule is counted per article—you can't add up reverts to different articles.

Well, yes, I see the difference. DreamGuy is bluff and gruff and frequently rude, and that's regrettable. At the same time I'm not sure I'd prefer to get the kind of passive aggressive "advice" that you post on his page, especially after I'd asked you to stop. A matter of taste. As for DreamGuy blanking your posts from his page, no, nothing can be done about that, he's entitled to do it. How about you simply stop posting there? That would make everybody happy, it seems to me. He has asked you not to post, and you don't like the results of posting. Also, while I understand that your intentions are good, please make sure you avoid userspace harassment. Regards, Bishonen | talk 14:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC).

Biography Assessment Drive

I am sorry to hear you had a poor experience with the Biography Assessment Drive, and in lieu of your comments, input would be appreciated here for dealing with articles that have "limited" knowledge so that they get a different, if not, fairer consideration when it comes to assessment. --Ozgod 15:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

(Cross-posted from my own talk page.) Hi Bishonen. I've addressed the issues over on the Bio talk page. Your articles have come into the midst of two terrible forces in current WikiProject Biography work: The (very objective) Charybdis of WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive, and the (very subjective) Scylla of the debate on what to do about the hated 11 Easy Steps. Charybdis has no time to be polite in assessing your work and see how you feel about it while Driving through more than 300,000 badly sorted bios. Scylla, meanwhile, is picking at the "Easy Steps" concept, and trying to figure out how to teach utterly uninitiated people how to make proper biographies. You should take neither of these things personally. Your biographies are well-written and researched, but there isn't room for a more elite system of assessment on Wikipedia, just room for better articles. Cheers, Yamara 16:05, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

"We're doing things that suck, but we can't stop, because otherwise we wouldn't be doing them." Genius. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 19:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Human civilization in a nutshell! And yet, life still defeats entropy, so far. -- Yamara 22:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Good heavens! Do you work in a DMV? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Alf wonders what Deserted medieval villages have to do with the price of fish(apods)

Smile

Lights has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing! Cheers, Lights 00:16, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks, Bishonen. I appreciate that that was a considerable effort on your part and thank for doing it and doing it so well.

I was going to clarify in my evidence section that Anynobody is now Anyeverybody and provide some helpful links as below but it would probably be more helpful if that was in your evidence area so people do not have to skip about (tra-la-la).

Anyeverybody (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Anynobody (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Or

Anyeverybody (talk · contribs · logs)

Anynobody (talk · contribs · logs)

Thanks again --Justanother 19:18, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose so. I kept having to go to the redirect to get the older contributions, and only about an ångström of the redirect link was visible under the image, so it would perhaps help. Also it would stop people from getting confused about when Anynobody started to edit. Done. Bishonen | talk 21:05, 20 July 2007 (UTC).

Misunderstanding?

Reading your evidence I couldn't help but notice you said that Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Justanother was uncertified. It really was certified: diff which is the main reason why I've felt deleting it was an error this entire time. Honestly if it had not been certified, I would have chalked it up to my inexperience and moved on.

If you have felt this since March that it wasn't, then our basic disagreement is based on a misunderstanding. I'm not saying you have to change your evidence, if you really think I've been screwing up then please keep most of it posted. In case this has been a huge misunderstanding, the golden rule (do unto others etc.) seems to apply. If I were in your shoes I'd like a chance to strike/remove the point about the RFC being uncertified before said editor posts direct evidence of my error.

To be clear, I'm not trying to talk you into changing your opinion nor do I expect anything from you. I don't enjoy pointing out mistakes, or possibly causing embarrassment which is why I'm posting this. Anynobody 23:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

As the diffs in my evidence show, many knowledgeable admins and experienced users pointed out your misunderstanding of the RfC process and the 48-hour rule, even after I myself gave up trying to explain it to you. (That includes Daniel Bryant, the guy who moved the RfC to "approved.") But you always knew better. Feel free to go down that road yet again, Anynobody, but you won't be doing yourself any favor. Bishonen | talk 10:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC).

You've actually never explained how the 48 hour rule applies when it was approved in just under 3 hours, are you starting the 48 hours from when Smee first came to you for help?
Listed: 03:49, 8 March 2007
Approved: 06:50, 8 March 2007.
Daniel Bryant didn't explain it to me either, he gave up after you left a note on his talk page, diff, diff.

It's not that I claim to know better than anyone, the problem I have is that the reasons you cited for deleting it (insufficient attempt for two editors to discuss, and the 48 hour rule) don't make sense; Smee and myself did try to resolve the dispute before going the RfC route and the RfC I posted was uncertified for 2 hours and 59 minutes. Anynobody 20:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I've explained amply and repeatedly; so have others; so does this. Do you recollect my last remark to you on this page in June? The one where I request you not to post on this page any more?Here it is. I accepted your previous post, because it seemed sort of fair that you'd want to comment on my evidence. But that doesn't mean I'm going to be drawn into arguing with you. No, no... been there...[starts to tear out her hair.] Don't post on my page any more, please. Bishonen | talk 21:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC).

additional posts reverted (per above)

Peace.Lsi john 12:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Very cool

I see you have set aside part of your page to showcase my images...how cool is that!...not sure they are good enough to get so much attention though, but certainly appreciated. I made some adjustments to my page there, uploaded some more and will add more as I go through what I have.--MONGO 13:19, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Love the landscapes and flowers, love the lilypads! Bishonen | talk 14:36, 21 July 2007 (UTC).

Waiting for Bishzilla

Can I please put a userbox on Bishapod's page that says, "Waiting for Bishzilla, Bishzilla will be arriving on (tomorrow's date)?" Please? Miranda 23:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Heheheh. What a good idea. :-) Bishonen | talk 23:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC).

 Done Miranda 02:50, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Pod has such fine little boxen ! Bishonen | talk 10:10, 23 July 2007 (UTC).

AWW!! That chipmunk is so CUTE! Miranda 03:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Hillary Clinton hygiene issues

Your input on Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_July_21#Ward_Churchill_misconduct_issues is welcome. Am I in left field? Nandesuka 11:08, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Re "RFAR Piotrus"

I've replied on my talk page. Paul August ☎ 18:38, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Issues with WP:AGF?

Please don't take it the wrong way, but I really find that some of your statements display your lack of good faith. Why would you call someone condescending over as little as doubting ones judgment in choice of words when a simple point to the policy would have worked just as well without the attack like undertone? I really don't understand your attitude and I wish I could...--Alexia Death 20:23, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

P.S: Sorry for not bringing my questions here before, instead of taking them up in the AfD. Im not attacking you, just trying to understand--Alexia Death 20:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Spot Master Bates

If you don't know Stephen Duck, you maybe should. He was Robert Burns before Robert Burns, but they made a gentleman of him, and I found Leslie Stephens's own biography of him still hanging about in 2004. See, though, if you can spot the truly unfortunate name in the biography. (Poor lady.) Geogre 13:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

"I pronounce it Byg, if you please." --Justanother 14:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

"Not An Elk, but Anne Elk, which is to say an Elk named Anne," and not a Big Duck, either. :-) Utgard Loki 15:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, at least it was Stephen Duck, not Patrick Gass' granddad. --Justanother 21:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

You found it, but note that his first was was Ann Duck. Geogre 04:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Guess I'm Uncivil too!

Well, I've now been accused of being uncivil because I disagree with the frantic footnote brigade! What a useful intimidation tactic! I should probably post the achievement on my talk page. However, this may be a way to get other more moderate souls involved in a discussion. If you, and others reading this page, would like to chime in, the issue came up on Talk:Apache and continues with my response to User talk:Corvus coronoides:Your "accusation". It may be futile, but I've always liked tilting at windmills. Best.........WBardwin 19:57, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Wanna tilt at windmills? Say that you are a Scientologist and try to edit Scientology-series articles to conform to core policies here. That is the Master's Series of Quixotic Editing. --Justanother 20:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Confess your sins and repent, (and find a good mentor for 3 months) and all will be forgiven. But you simply must stop your unreasonable demands that your opposition actually follow policy/guidelines. That's simply an outlandish and incivil demand. Peace.Lsi john 21:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks like an old acquaintance of yours is reading this page, W.[2] Pity he didn't focus a bit more on the matter of fact, though (=the inline cites). Bishonen | talk 22:34, 25 July 2007 (UTC).

Save this goat!

File:Goat.gif

someone wants to delete one of my goats (the one above in fact), what can we do, how do we write a fair use rationale. I have just removed the warning template as a start that should fox them for a couple of days. Giano 18:25, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Good evening Giano, Bishonen, 'las & 'pods tips hat exactly what is it the image is showing, is it a poster, a donations packet that gets posted through your door or what. I could do a thingy for it if I knew that and from whence it came.--Alf ^melmac 20:13, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Err ... I hate to be a party pooper, but we can't use fair use images in user space. Not even to illustrate an appeal to write a fair use justification for that fair use image. :-{ --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 20:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Erm what about an image of an appeal about needing fair use image justification? :p --Alf ^melmac 20:30, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

That said, you write a fair use rationale like this: Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline I'm not at all sure this image will qualify, unfortunately. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 20:27, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Poop no more, not here at least Anon, and we shall have the image back, this is a thing that was posted through my door in W8 (that is a part of London for the benefit of those across the pond) It is all a very sad story - and you Anon should have more sympathy for the starving millions whose plight has been made worse by being sent goats that are now eating what little greenery they enjoyed. Giano 20:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Sued by Christian Aid - no. In trouble with people who go around enforcing the fair use guidelines - yes. Betacommand, Abu badali, those sorts. But I guess I'll let you deal with that, I've said my piece. I'm not generally one of the rule enforcers, my connection is more usually being one of those that drops fair-use text onto questioned images. This particular one is tough, because it isn't really discussed in the article in question. Best of luck to you. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 21:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

• If Betacommand wants another run in with me he is welcome to try, I have not had the pleasure of Mr Badali, in fact I have never heard of him. So I'm not hugely concerned. Now more to the point how do we save these unfortunate goats, the Christians and the starving millions all in one big swoop. I cannot beleive that using a Christian Aid promotion to describe the work of Christian Aid can be against anyone's principles - even Mr Badali's. Giano 21:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

As chairman of the Bipartisan Free Range Goat League, I object to this so-called "Fair Use" of goats. These people treat them like animals! That's hardly fair. Friday (talk) 21:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, and no where in that re-cycling does it mention the obvious - or are all of the starving millions vegetarians? In which case the goats eating all the greenery will be even less beneficial. Giano 21:14, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Dream Guy

Anyway, the real reason I dropped in was to mention that User:DreamGuy seems to be in trouble again. WP:ANI#User:DreamGuy Want to check it out? Or not - I know you're not his mother, but I wanted to notify you and give you the chance to help out if you wanted. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 20:32, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Mouse. I think I give up, it's looking kind of hopeless. :-( Maybe I'll feel differently tomorrow. It's very late here. Bishonen | talk 23:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC).

It seems to be the same old accusations by the same people who start up an ANI thread every few weeks and go nowhere. Most of them can't pull things together to stop acting like people irrationally out for blood to get taken seriously. Although of course it doesn't stop them from rushing off to take their edit wars to fresh new articles. DreamGuy 06:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, though, one thing would be nice...User:Dicklyon (and some others too, but mostly Dicklyon) insists upon putting harassing comments on my talk page over and over and over despite being told he was not allowed to post there and even after another admin (the bad one I had asked you for help with in the past, User:Arthur Rubin, who abused his position to try to prevail in edit wars and you and some others warned) told him I was right (as well as other people on the ANI thread) that posting to my talk page is harassment when it's clearly done with those intents in mind. It'd be nice if you could let him know that this is serious and that he can't post there. DreamGuy 21:29, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I certainly will. Writing it now. Bishonen | talk 22:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC).

I don't get it. Why is DreamGuy saying "same people who start up an ANI thread every few weeks" in reference to me? The only thing I've ever done with him before is to report his article destruction as vandalism. And why does he think my comments on his talk page are harassing? He doesn't even read them, apparently. Hopefully you will. I don't recall anyone saying he was right, so if you figure out what he is referring to, do let me know. Is it true that I should not talk to him via his talk page when I have something to say? And what is your relationship in support of him? Dicklyon 23:32, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

My "relationship in support"? Excuse me? I'm going to AGF that you didn't mean that quite the way it sounds. Meanwhile, I too think your comments on his talk page are harassing. Jumping in with this sarcastic comment in a discussion you haven't been involved in is mere trolling, IMO. Obviously your comment "to Clpo 13" was really aimed at inflaming DreamGuy (or why post a comment to another editor on his page?). And don't put back stuff on his page that he removes. This included a warning template from IPSOS which was totally unsuitable for posting on a long-time contributor in the first place. I would have removed it too, if I'd been him. It's not for you to restore stuff "to give another chance to read our comments"—when he removes something it's taken as proof presumptive that he has read it (even if he says he hasn't). If I were you, I would oblige him and leave him alone on his page. Think about it: have you honestly seen any good effects that those types of comments you make to him are having? So far? Bishonen | talk 23:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC).

My question was sincere. I'm just wondering why AnonEMouse and DreamGuy are asking you to intercede, and wondering if there's some history that I should know about. If there's not, just say so. And yes, I got sarcastic on that one; but I was NOT uninvolved in that interaction. I'll take your point that nothing good is likely to come of me trying to talk there. Dicklyon 00:15, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Sincere? Oh, good. That makes it all right to be bloody rude, then. Bishonen | talk 09:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC).

Huh? Was my question "And what is your relationship in support of him?" really "bloody rude"? Or maybe just a bit indelicate? Where are you coming from on this reaction? Dicklyon 17:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

"Indelicate?" Oh, am I supposed to have some discreditable relationship with DreamGuy? Gee, you sound worse every time you open your mouth. My reaction was also to the peremptory order-giving of your next post. "If there is not, just say so." If you think that kind of interrogation is acceptable, you're living in a bad place. Please just quit it while you're still ahead, for very small values of ahead. Bishonen | talk 18:24, 29 July 2007 (UTC).

(inindent) Personally, I have a high level of respect for Bishonen, and have seen several times when she has been able to save DreamGuy from self destruction. That doesn't necessarily mean I think he's right or you're wrong, it's not a zero sum game. I'm less interested in who "wins" and who "loses" and more in keeping people rather than driving them away. I've been in a small conflict or two with DreamGuy myself, so I didn't think I'm the best person to intervene. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 00:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

If by "self destruction" you mean attempts by problem editors to try to scapegoat me and harass the beejesus out of me. DreamGuy 20:03, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Smile

Connell66 has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Kitty

When I saw this, I was reminded of Kitty. Maybe when El_C gets back, someone should put a disclaimer which reads: "not to be confused with Oscar the Cat." :-P Happy editing. Miranda 00:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Dissociative identity disorder

If you can, you may want to watch this article. Someone (User:Standardname) has been making major edits for a week or so (see page history on 500 eidts per page, it's a sea of their edits), and I tried to follow them best I could. Other than a couple minor things I fixed along the way they seemed alright, but then today anything and everything about the diagnosis being controversial was removed, the edit comments said that it was not controversial because the DSM said it was real (well, yeah, it said it was real this whole time and was controversial, and in the past DSM said homosexuality was a disorder, etc., so obviously listing there doesn't mean it's not a controversial diagnosis), along with some edits that seemed to go way beyond POV-pushing to just unintelligible. I reverted back to an old version (just the edits today that gutted the controversy section, not this person's other edits), and left a message on their talk page, to which they responded that their intent to revert back to their version. DreamGuy 23:11, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi, DreamGuy. This new editor obviously doesn't have a grasp of our policies and practices yet. Considering this, and the overall frankness of their agenda, how about you drop a line on User:Shell Kinney? Meanwhile, I've posted a note on Standardname's talkpage. Bishonen | talk 23:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC).

Hrm. Missed the spamming bit. Trying to find what that was all about and will give her a heads up. Thanks. DreamGuy 06:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

You might be able to make a judment here

Hi, Bishonen. I've just seen Special:Contributions/81.178.224.84. I don't know much about the case, but I did follow the ArbCom case a little bit, and I think Worldtraveller scrambled his password. If that's the case, he wouldn't be able to make deletion requests while logged on. I think it's quite natural that an admin who sees an anon putting deletion requests on a whole pile of pages would use rollback, but this particular case may be genuine. I think you were friendly with him, so you might be able to make a judgment as to whether or not those edits really did come from him. Cheers. ElinorD (talk) 13:35, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

See also User_talk:Kukini#Requests_for_deletion. ElinorD (talk) 13:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for stepping in on this, y'all. I don't want to be reverting in error...and this may very well be a legit case. --Kukini ^{hablame aqui} 13:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Please see my comment on Kukini's talk. Regards, Newyorkbrad 14:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Deletions

Hej Bish, thanks for the note. Yes, this lot was what I was hoping to have deleted. I listed the redirects at WP:RFD - the listing is still there but Kukini reverted the addition of rfd tags on the redirects themselves thinking it might be a vandal. Hej då - 81.178.224.84 17:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. Man, talk about cross-namespace redirects—I came >this< close to deleting large tracts of the Signpost itself. A pretty pickle that would have been. World... ? This was a really, really sad job.  :-( Bishonen | talk 18:14, 28 July 2007 (UTC).

What is going on here that I don't know about? Giano 19:59, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

OK don't worry I tracked it down for myself - yet another highly respected member of the team bites the dust. Does anyone care <sigh> Giano 20:10, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I care, but I don't know there's anything more to be done. Even the ArbCom officially asked Worldtraveller to resume contributing, based on my workshop proposal, but I'm afraid there's no enforcement provision. Newyorkbrad 16:14, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

My RfA

I've responded to your questions (under oppose) and your comments (under discussion). Thanks for taking them in to consideration, Giggy _U^CP 23:50, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

That was quite easy, yeah. Unfortunately so. I'm sorry it went like this. Bishzilla appreciated your comments at her RFA..! But I feel strongly about the issues involved, so I didn't have a lot of choice. Bishonen | talk 00:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC).

Hi Bishzilla! I acknowledge you not thinking I'm ready for adminship yet, and not wanting a back-and-forth on the RfA, but I'd really like feedback on how to improve in this regard. So if you were to discuss it here I'd be more then happy too. Giggy _U^CP 00:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Giggy! Puny 'shonen post pile of new feedback here. 'Zilla famous for gumption, helpfulness, sweet temper, atomic deathray, and sex. Weenie 'shonen famous for only one thing: meanness. :-( bishzilla _ROARR!! 09:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC).

Thanks sexy Zilla! Maybe if you use your deathray on Shonen :P Actually, don't, the advice is all good, and I'll be sure to take it on board :) Giggy _U^CP 23:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Home high, I'm honey!

El_C 05:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It's the chipster! The song-and-dance man! Yay! Bishonen | talk 09:24, 30 July 2007 (UTC).

And he calls it what it is, no less! That's my petting zoo man! I'm so proud of you for that typo — let' s raise our banners and march onward towards the goat ! Bishonen | talk 10:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC).

YASE! I'm proud to inhabit the petting category, albeit less kinky-ly than the rest of em. El_C 11:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

StandardName, DreamGuy and DID

Hi Bishonen, I see that you have been talking (unofficial mediation?) with StandardName and the other people involved with the DID page. I don't normally edit that page, but I am part of the Wikiproject Psychology, and he added this material to the project talk page. I removed that, and left a note on his user page that it was excessive (which he has subsequently deleted). I also noted that, having reviewed the edits StandardName has made to the DID page (since he brought it up on the project talk page), that StandardName is engaged in POV pushing. Wholesale removal of sections of the article is certainly no way to make it more NPOV. It just substitutes an unacknowledged POV for an acknowledged debate. I don't think that DreamGuy is dealing with things in the most constructive manner possible, but that's another matter. As part of the Wikiproject Psychology, let me know if I can help (at least provide an outside expert perspective, since my research is not in DID, but rather synesthesia), but it looks to me like StandardName is on his way to getting blocked here. Edhubbard 07:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for keeping me informed, Ed. Yeah, DreamGuy alerted me to the problem. I'm flattered if my warnings to the user sounded like mediation, lol... I don't really think I'm suited for that role, and I'll be more than happy to leave him to Shell Kinney, who already indefblocked him once[3] and who has obviously been talking with him — I would guess by e-mail — a good deal more than I have. I agree that it looks like SN is spoiling for another indefinite block, this time one that sticks. Meanwhile, please don't restore any posts he removes from his talkpage! I know how annoying that is, and his claim to be removing yours as personal attacks is ridiculouos, but the fact remains that he's entitled to remove posts, and you're not supposed to put them back. His blanking them shows he read them, and you don't get to insist on keeping them on his page. I would advise you instead to use very clear edit summaries for any further posts you make there (not that I see any pressing need for any more), that stand out when people check the history, and that immediately tell them what your post was about. In a few extreme cases, I've even used summaries like "Yet another attempt to make the user see reason, I expect it to be blanked, please read it, admins!" :-) Bishonen | talk 09:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for the reply. I missed it earlier. I don't think that I need to interact with SN any more, since he did not re-add his comments to the Psych Wikiproj page. I did make sure that I left something on the proejct page letting people know that he attempted to canvass (I just saw Shell's note on SN's talk page). Personally, I think his canvassing on the project page will probably backfire, if it gets any response at all. Edhubbard 17:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks both of you for noticing the POV-pushing going on on the article, but be aware that StandardName has simply now recruited some of the other longstanding POV-pushers to reinstate the exact same edits we all agree were horrible. If you could please watch the article some more it'd be helpful to undo this nonsense when it happens and give similar warnings to others reverting to the bad version for the guy. DreamGuy 16:18, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Stats/picture

Admin stats and your chipmunk picture looks like Chip and Dale. :-P. Miranda 00:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

My RfA

Hi, Bishonen, and thanks for your participation in my RfA. I've withdrawn it, and will be writing up an "analysis" of it, which will soon be available at User:Giggy/RfA/Giggy when it's done. Please come around when you get the chance, and give me feedback on how I can improve. Thanks again, Giggy _U^CP 04:31, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

your eighth FAC

Hello... at WT:FAC you wrote:"...after I'd very cheerfully nominated seven articles on FAC and had them featured, I found the eighth process so abrasive that it's left me with zero inclination for any number nine."

Please forgive me if this is bringing up old & unpleasant detritus, but I am very interested in seeing how the offending FAC played out... would you mind giving me a link? Thanks Ling.Nut 10:49, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

PS completely unrelated: I just noticed that — using my browser my monitor etc. — there's an image Image:Empirestil, Byrå, Nordisk familjebok.png which is entirely overlapped by the chipmunks... I can only see the border... cheers Ling.Nut 11:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear me! There's acres of whitespace between the chipmunks and the Byrå on my screen. The Byrå's not just an image, it's my archives, so I certainly don't want it hidden. What resolution are you viewing the page at? Could you show me what it would take to make it right for your screen, by editing the chippies — and anything else involved — so they don't overlap? I'd appreciate it. (Though possibly revert it, if it looks absurdly small on mine...! :-P ) I'll e-mail you about the other thing, as I don't indeed want to re-start any old unpleasantness on my page. Bishonen | talk 18:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC).

Desert chippy

Here's an image of a chipmunk from my neck of the woods! Sorry that it is not my photograph, but I have a few pics around here somewhere. Best........WBardwin 20:17, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Copycats! El_C 05:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Aw, cute! Pensive! Featured Chip now featured at top of page until such time as El C's chips come after it with their baseball bats! Bishonen | talk 11:29, 2 August 2007 (UTC).

Mmmm, battered chipmunk, a dish that virtually prepares itself - Tasty!--Alf ^melmac 11:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

No...........don't hurt the Hopi chipmunk. (It wouldn't be worth it anyway, as they are so little that one would be just an appetizer. Hmmmmm - but maybe well pounded and stuffed with pinenuts and onions?) Would Bishzilla approve? Thanks for the featured status, Bishonen. WBardwin 23:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:3RR

Dear Bishonen, for each brief quote from a university journal, can I add it immediately to the article Dissociative identity disorder, or must I first post it in the article Dissociative identity disorder's discussion page each time? For example, I'd like to add this quote, under the section Dissociative_identity_disorder#Treatment: "Hypnosis can be useful in teaching patients about the dissociative nature of their symptoms by helping them to gain control over transitions among personality states, with the goal of improving internal communication and integrating disparate aspects of their identity." (Stanford University School of Medicine, The American Journal of Psychiatry, 2006, http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/163/4/566). Standardname 22:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Kiev

User:Volodia Tatlin is one of many sockpuppets being used on this page by Ukranians pushing their agenda. Check his pages. In my view his contributions should be deleted. Regards, David Lauder 08:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, David. I see it's indeed a single purpose account, and a recent one. Many (not all) such accounts are socks, yes, but I have to assume good faith. And as far as deleting the contributions, my big problem is exactly what you say: there are probably many socks editing the article and the talkpage. If I delete the contributions of one, I ought to take an overview and make some sort of decision as to which contributors are socks, and delete everything they do. I'm not versed enough in the subject, or acquainted enough with the accounts regularly editing in the field, to undertake that. (I'm frankly not acquainted with them at all.) The talkpage naming discussion is indeed operating under the law of diminishing returns, especially now that the request for move and the consequent poll have established consensus. That's why I thought the talkpage as such ought to be freed up for more constructive kinds of discussion. (Though it's obviously fair enough that people choose to use some space discussing my decision immediately below it on the page — I think that has to be allowed for.) You probably know much more than I do about the specific likelihoods of socking at Kiev and its talkpage. If your suspicion are concrete enough, I encourage you to take them to the checkusers. Jointly wiith some other contributors, perhaps? Note that you have to tell CheckUser not only about suspected socks, but also what sock puppeteers you suspect — see the CheckUser page instructions. Bishonen | talk 09:11, 3 August 2007 (UTC).

Beached

Hi, if you, Giano, or Geogre, or any of the 'zillas and 'pods are about, would you mind taking a look over Dover Beach, with particular respect to the "caveat section" - the talk page is involved and in some places is a bit hard work. Apparently I'm repressing the truth censoring against the US's constitution or something :s --Alf ^melmac 18:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

On name-calling

I'm calling them like I see them. This editor is a problem. He is arrogant, POV-pushing, and makes no real contributions other than to stir up trouble. After 5, count them 5 arbitrations being called on this guy in the past 12 months, I am uncertain as to how it is that he is still here.

If you are intent on reprimanding anyone, trying doing a little research on the edit comments, user comments, user logs, and Talk pages for which this editor is responsible. In addition to finding that he is exactly who I say he is, you will find that he regularly edits and blanks his own Talk page to cast himself in a positive light, while being abusive and condescending to others. --DashaKat 19:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

If I'm "intent on reprimanding anyone"? Don't post insulting rubbish on this page if you don't mind. How you "see" fellow editors doesn't trump official policy, and, no, you actually don't get to call users asses or certified imbeciles no matter how you see them. Please read Wikipedia:No personal attacks. If you refer to anybody again in remotely those kinds of terms, I won't reprimand you, I'll block you. As for 5 arbitrations "being called", please don't pollute my page with such abysmal logic. Anybody can "call" an arbitration on anybody. How many RFARs have been opened? How many have ended in any sanction or reprimand? Bah. Bishonen | talk 20:43, 3 August 2007 (UTC).

Laconic woes

See also: The Evil Spartan

Philip II of Macedon sent a message to Sparta, stating: "If I win this war, you will be slaves forever." The Spartans sent back a one word reply: "If." El_C 23:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

However. You skirt the Spartan's mention of your somewhat famous inappropriate blocks in the past. RfC time? Bishonen | talk 23:48, 3 August 2007 (UTC).

Shhh! I am so going to be setted up the bomb, now! El_C 00:01, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Tis interesting, though I suppose not particularly surprising, to learn that a politically-hostile editor is combing through my logs trying to find damning evidence, but Illyrians — come on! At least find something plausible! El_C 00:17, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I've got some wikilove to share

Mykola Burachek (1871 - 1942), "The broad Dnieper roars and moans" (1941). Oil on canvas.

Hey Bish! I've got so much Wikipedia:WikiLove today, and totally unexpectedly, that I've got to share some and pass it on.

This gift made me think about an excellent post-impressionist painting and I would like to pass it on for your viewing pleasure. Please enjoy one of my favorite works by this great Ukrainian artist who is undeservingly little known abroad.

Here you will find this image juxtaposed along with my own wiki-portrait. I quite like how they go together.

Wikilove, --Irpen 05:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Re:Your input on Vintagekits' page

I have no interest in "winding him up"- I was only making a suitable comment. If he cannot engage with people on a talk page- what hope is there that he will behave if he returns? Astrotrain 11:31, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what you were only doing, all I'm asking you to do from now on is respect his perfectly polite request. Please. Bishonen | talk 11:35, 5 August 2007 (UTC).

It seems like he is trying to stop people who may object to his block being lifted from making their voices heard. Astrotrain 13:12, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear, censorship, is it? Vintagekits can only post on his own talkpage. Are you under the impression that Vintagekits' talkpage is the only place you can post? Please take your comment to Sir Fozzie or Alison or something, if you think it too insightful to lose. I note that you didn't actually make any argument, though, beyond registering agreement with another user. You had no input in the discussion. You were treating it like a vote. It's not a vote. Bishonen | talk 13:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC).

Brilliant Prose Competition

And him telling me to read WP:DICK the first time I ever made a comment to him isn't trolling? He does this regularly to users in the first comment he ever makes to them. IPSOS (talk) 01:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

"But mommy, he threw sand at me first!" That makes it OK? Maybe if you're four. I was suggesting you might like to hold yourself to a higher standard than deliberate trolling and provocation. Please think about it. Please don't post on DreamGuy's page any more. And, this was my big point: please don't post newbie templates on any experienced editor again. See Wikipedia:Template messages/User talk namespace: "if the template's tone isn't appropriate, don't use the template." And, well, just see common sense. Please. Bishonen | talk 10:06, 29 July 2007 (UTC).

Please give me your opinion of DreamGuy (talk · contribs) edit warring over Wikipedia:Guide to layout (edit | [[Talk:Wikipedia:Guide to layout|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) and making false claims that it had always been "his way". I've completely disproven that claim here. It is now okay for me to call him a "liar" like he repeatedly does to other editors? If not, perhaps you should rather call him on his bullshit. IPSOS (talk) 15:30, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to find the time to do as you request. Even though you, who haven't had anything remotely responsive to say to my comments on your bullshit, are in a very, very, very, very poor and unbecoming position for requesting it. You are the only person whose behaviour you're guaranteed to be able to change, you know. If you're not prepared to try, it's hardly worth setting yourself up as a specialist in deportment and courtesy. Bishonen | talk 15:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC).

You've been defending someone who is purposely abusive, uncivil and rude to other users. You've just lost any respect I might have had for you. You're an enabler. IPSOS (talk) 15:51, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

In that case, I hope you'll understand if I don't give your request top priority. I really am a little busy today. Btw, I agree with you about the placing of the "See also" section. Though I have trouble working up any passion about it either way. Why does either of you care so much? Personally, I try to structure articles so that a "See also" section won't be needed at all. I know Raul654, the Featured Articles director, happens to agree with me in disliking it. As for that hypothetical might-have-had respect, if you ever do find it, put it where the sun don't shine. Bishonen | talk 17:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC).

Wait a moment. This massive exchange of weapons is over the placing of the "See also" section? Not money, or religion, or politics, or living people, but the order of appendices in article layout? Wow. I know where this goes. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 17:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, there you are, Mouse, darling. I've been thinking about that very perceptive question Dicklyon asked above: "I'm just wondering why AnonEMouse and DreamGuy are asking you to intercede, and wondering if there's some history that I should know about." The man must have uncanny intuition! Or else we've been very obvious, you and I... well, *I* probably have... it's so difficult to hide my feelings for you! I think we might as well come clean, you and I, about our love, and our little love-pledge DreamGuy. Let the world know! See if I care! My heart is already broken. It broke on the dark and stormy night I was forced to leave my sweet little one on the steps of the orphanage all those years ago. After that night, and that storm, I had to become strong, or I would have died of misery! Oh my baby! That 's my relationship in support of him! Shout it from the rooftops! Nay, post it on ANI! Bishonen | talk 20:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC).

Ha! I thought I detected the chitter-chatter of little teeth. :-) IPSOS (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow, that's so much more interesting that even I could have imagined. Thanks for coming clean! Now kick the bastard out and make him get a job. Dicklyon 20:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Is this User:Son of 'Zilla or something? :-) Carcharoth 23:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

OMG, "Young Stupid" is involved as well ? The plot thickens like peasoup! Bishonen | talk 00:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC).

I thought for days about how to respond to this, and finally decided. I'm speechless. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 16:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow, Speechless over days! Good job Bishonen! (And thanks for the moments of high comedy, I've needed it!) SirFozzie 17:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

And she seems to have taken my advice. DreamGuy says he's moving out; half way across the country even. Dicklyon 17:06, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

(Thank you, Sir Fozzie. I saw something about that — don't get burnout!) Dearest Mouse! I do know your modest, retiring nature — who better? But when you wrote "You're not his mother", it was like a ... Sign! Or a challenge, even. I Sensed that you were wondering if I'd dare to respond, with matronly dignity: Oh Yes I Am! And yes, I did! And I feel better for it! My pathetic made-up excuses for supporting DreamGuy never seemed to fool anybody, anyway. I mean, trying to stop people from harassing him on his page merely because I always try to stop anybody being harassed on their page? People laughed at that one. With some justice. And as for pretending to be against all out-of-policy blocks by trigger-happy admins, well. "Embarrassing" and "transparent" are the words for that excuse for posting bad blocks of DreamGuy on ANI.[4] I knew it, really. Anyway, the truth is out. And I like the feeling! I couldn't go on living a lie. Several lies, actually... watch this space for sensational revelations about my relationship with dear Giano, coming real soon. And then... hmmm... [ /me thumbs thoughtfully through stack of index cards ] ... User:El C, I think. Or the one where I'm reunited with my dear little daughter and her icecream machine. That's definitely the most touching story you ever heard. Maybe I should complement the chipmunk, bird, and lake photos of the day with the It was a dark and stormy night story of the day, what do you think? ... Mouse? Are you there...? Bishonen | talk 20:58, 31 July 2007 (UTC).

Mummy, dearest. I hope you're not going to reveal the identity of my father. I'd find it so humiliating if people found out about my relationship to that cad, that bounder, who exposed you to a life of misery and me to one of poverty. And I'm a little bit worried (remember that growing up in an orphanage made me insecure) that you don't make it clear if the "touching" thing was being reunited with me, or being reunited with my ice cream machine. ElinorD (talk) 14:01, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Lady nice, icecream nicer! ['Zilla reminiscently burps powerful cookie-dough-scented tornado. ] bishzilla _ROARR!! 15:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC).

Sorry about the frank monster, darling. She may have a heart of gold somewhere in there, but she knows nothing about lip-service<s\> tact. As for revealing the identity of your father [ checks hastily through index cards ] ...ah, yes. No, of course I won't. I have enough to do trying to make up with my father, who chased me out into the storm on that terrible night, shouting imprecations at me for sullying the unspotted honour of the Geogres... oops! Bishonen | talk 15:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC).

Fun story. But it almost sounds like you think I was harassing DreamGuy, or that he shouldn't be punished for his behavior. I'm still wondering what that's about. But I'll settle for fiction, I guess. Dicklyon 22:46, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[Blinks ] It almost sounds like I think DreamGuy shouldn't be punished for his behavior? I¨'m sorry to hear it. I always try to sound like I definitely don't think any editors should be "punished for their behavior." Wow, did you really say that? We don't do punish. Even blocks are for prevention, not punishment. Please see WP:BLOCK. Official policy. The Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee sometimes hands out sanctions at the end of a case, up to and including WP:BANs. These sanctions are officially known as "remedies". Their purpose is to protect the project from undesirable actions. Not to punish past behavior. The word "punish" is never used in arbitration, never used by admins, never countenanced by the community. Even if an editor is irascible — even if he's surly — even if he's in a bit of a state, for heaven's sake — and has offended you, and spoken unresonably to you — you're still not going to get to "punish" him, or shame him, or pillory him, you know. Now look me in the eye and tell me that trying to force him to keep a stupid fucking robotic warning template for newbies visible on his page[5] was intended as outreach, was intended as human contact, was meant to help — was not, in fact, meant to inflict a shame punishment, a public humiliation or parading on donkey? I understand that you're annoyed. But. We. Don't. Do. That.

That said, no, I don't actually think you were harassing him. If it sounded like any of my posts to you implied that, I regret it. He was being harassed. Not by you. Bishonen | talk 00:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC).

Thanks for the parenting counsel. I guess I'm too old-school to have the right instincts. I'd spank him; or what his mouth out with soap. But I can see that your way is more progressive. Dicklyon 05:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

If your "your" is being used in the singular, it is important to understand that It is not just her way, its our way. Paul August ☎ 15:23, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I get that. What I don't get is why no admin is willing to help with the DreamGuy problem. Dicklyon 15:45, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Samuel Richardson. Daddy, Daddy!

Parading on donkey is so yesterday. Crushing by elephant is all the rage these days. Hmm. Must challenge 'Zilla to single combat one of these days. Carcharoth 00:57, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the sequential combination would be ideal. Dicklyon 05:41, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Reply

I write, perverse girl; but with all the indignation that your disobedience deserves. To desire to be forgiven a fault all your own, and yet desire to persevere in, is a boldness no more to be equalled than passed over. It is my authority you defy. Your reflections upon a sister that is an honour to us all, deserve my utmost resentment. I see how light all relationship sits upon you. The cause I guess at too. Continue banished from my presence, undutiful as you are, till you know how to conform to my will. Ingrateful creature! Your letter but upbraids me for my past indulgence! Write no more to me, till you can distinguish better; and till you are convinced of your duty to

A justly incensed Father

LOL, it's Mr Richardson himself, how fab! I simply have to move this thread to the bottom of the page and change the header. Daddy, you're quite too modest in posting your tender, thoughtful, yet so stern and just response to your truly humbled Clarissa up there! Mind you, User:Bishapod was a boy last time I checked. And, er, what exactly does that make your relation to User:Bishzilla...? I don't much like to think about it. (As for you, Mouse, I love you, but you're not winning — how about a bit more of an effort, hmm?) Bishonen | talk 14:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC).

Brother? Let me tell you, wench, of what he hath been about while you were disgracing the family. He was elected sachem, acknowledged first warrior of the Badger tribe, and dignified with the name or epithet of Occancanastaogarora, which signifies nimble as a weasel; but all these honours he was obliged to resign, in consequence of being exchanged for the orator of the community, who had been taken prisoner by the Indians who were in alliance with the English. Such are the outlines of his history, as he gave them to the delight of Miss Tabitha.

Oh, surely, you say, that a mother, Mrs. Norton, cannot forget her child, though that child could abandon her mother; and, in so doing, run away with all her mother's comforts! Is it less with a father?

With Old Laroon, I must ask, Harkye, will you please to tell me what this great impudence of yours means, and what you mean by annihilating me? The Aggrieved Father

How many references from old books did you squeeze in there? :-) Carcharoth 00:54, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Orwellian woes

Never again! El_C 00:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The Cantos

[6] - such a pity! Not what I would call a good idea at all, not at all in fact. Giano 22:12, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Smile

Marlith ^T/C has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Marlith ^T/C 23:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Templating the regulars

Hi, Bishonen. I've mentioned your name here. You might want to take a look, just to check that I'm not misrepresenting you. ElinorD (talk) 14:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Me object too speedy deletion of that thing? Certainly not. I did attempt to add a paragraph to it, taking issue with the rather prominent strawman arguments it enshrined, but I was promptly reverted by IPSOS, IIRC. I'm on a lousy bluetooth connection and can't really check out the the deleted versions right now, but if IPSOS wants the essay kept, or fully MFD'd or whatever, because of my valuable contribution, I'm ... speechless. Bishonen | talk 15:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC) .

Your speechlessness has been rejected for lacking a template format. If you'd like to do something-or-other, use the sandbox! El_C 23:30, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey, El C, you forgot to tell her to "take a look at the Welcome page if [she] would like to learn more about contributing!" ElinorD (talk) 08:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Bishonen, the topic has been archived, at the noticeboard — not the regular kind of archiving, but the kind they use when they want everyone to shut up. The deletion of the essay is now being discussed at Deletion Review. Cheers. ElinorD (talk) 08:25, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Easily unarchived, you know, El..! Anyhow, I can't really take part, my connection is seriously killing me. That will be the state of play for one week more, then 'Zilla will turn up and <ROARRR>explain<ROARRR>the whole thing to everybody (Down, Bishzilla!). Bishonen | talk 10:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC).

We've never met, but

Your name was given to me by User:Carcharoth as someone to come to to look over a project I have undertaken at the suggestion of Carcharoth, and of User:DESiegel. DES and DGG have been working on it with me, and I believe it is something you'd have valuable input on, so I'd love it if you would take a peek, and see if there is any wisdom you can impart from your experience, along with any comments or suggestions you may have. Thank you sincerely in advance for allowing a stranger to intrude upon your time, ^Ariel♥Gold 00:59, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, not for a while yet, please see reply to previous post. Bishonen | talk 10:39, 8 August 2007 (UTC).

Whenever you are back on a landline, no worries ;) ^Ariel♥Gold 17:02, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Templating stuff

Thought you might be interested in User talk:Geogre#Regular templating. Carcharoth 01:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Though I see I am duplicating the topic of the previous two posts... Carcharoth 01:09, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Puppies

Here's an interesting diff. [7]. - Jehochman ^Talk 13:00, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, not to me, really. I read it as "Look at me, I'm being strange and unpredictable." Bishonen | talk 17:05, 10 August 2007 (UTC).

Image size

Surely this is not the most important thing. Encyclopedic content and missing articles are my priority. I've worked hard to find images to add to articles. Px size is yes a matter of preference but surely an image and article whatever size is better than nothing! I hope everyone can agree on something Regards ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ ^{"Expecting you?" Contribs} 18:14, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Re: the subject of Wikipedia:Vandalism

A person arriving on the vandalism page is not likely to be a newcomer, and if it is; they should be told without biting that it is not ok to do POV-pushing . I agree that "POV-pushing" might be a little too harsh for a first time offender especially for a newcomer; but the language as written "not helpful" is exceptionally mild, almost like a license; there has to be a middle way. Itzse 23:11, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Itze. (Edit conflict — it's great if you can edit talkpages in one go rather than in installments, because those do tend to give the person trying to reply an edit conflict... :-( ) I didn't revert your edit because I thought a newcomer was very likely to read it, no. I reverted it because IMO it would tend to encourage people to speak aggressively to newcomers, instead of gently and welcomingly explaining why adding personal opinions to articles is not appropriate. It's important to encourage a newbie-welcoming culture on policy pages, and I'm afraid I didn't think your change did that. In view of the importance of assuming good faith — assuming that the newbie is trying to help, and may well have useful expertise — I actually do think "not helpful" strikes a good balance — indeed, that it is itself a middle way. We should not call them names, and "POV-pusher" is really bad..! Bishonen | talk 23:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC).

Hi Bishonen, You're right about newbie’s; but this is one of the WP rules pages which are constantly used (and abused) by veterans who in the process of Wiki-lawyering, utilize its lack of strong language to get away with forcing their edits. So I still think that the tone has to be a little harsher then that, similar to the other rules pages, to keep them in check; after all this is the "vandalism" rule page, not an orientation page for newbies.

Sorry for paying you in installments; but I'm a perfectionist and although I thought that I had put together my thoughts, and after doing a preview clicked the dreaded page button; but then after seeing it go, I had some afterthoughts how to make my position clearer. Sorry for the annoyance; but I have a solution to the problem. I usually do a cut and paste of my edits so when I have an edit conflict; I just need to copy/paste it back. If you forgot to do a copy/paste, then just do as many "back to the previous pages" as needed to retrieve/copy the lost text. Then just do a do a paste in a new edit. Itzse 19:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

The vandalism policy is not a tool for keeping veteran POV-pushers in check. Yes, I can manage edit conflicts, thanks. It's just more convenient to not get them. Bishonen | talk 21:59, 10 August 2007 (UTC).

Evolution - no revert war, just serious good faith editing

COPIED: I see a remarkably massive consensus on the talkpage against your drastic changes of the Evolution article. Your new introduction is resoundingly disapproved. The empty "sections" you've added are against policy (an article in mainspace isn't supposed to look like a draft). Being bold in a rewrite is excusable, even though the proper thing would have been to introduce such startling changes more gradually; but reverting to your version against consensus is really inappropriate from an experienced editor (as I see you claim to be). Please don't revert to your version or any part of it again, except in the remote-looking contingency that you get consensus for it on talk. Otherwise you will find yourself sanctioned for edit warring. Bishonen | talk 22:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC).

There's no revert war there. I made an edit, and objected to the rapid reversion of it without discussion by another editor. Since then I've been in full time discussion, with no intention of reverting again. I don't agree that reverting was innapropriate as it was done without any comment and WP:reverting specifically says:

• Do not simply revert changes that are made as part of a dispute. Be respectful to other editors, their contributions and their points of view.
• Do not revert good faith edits. In other words, try to consider the editor "on the other end." If what one is attempting is a positive contribution to Wikipedia, a revert of those contributions is inappropriate unless, and only unless, you as an editor possess firm, substantive, and objective proof to the contrary. Mere disagreement is not such proof. See also Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith.
• Reverting is used primarily for fighting vandalism, or anything very similar to the effects of vandalism.

There's no way I do vandalism! Please see my latest citation in support of my discussion. --Memestream 23:06, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• • Here's a suggestion: don't scan Wikipedia policy pages for fragments that you can cherry-pick and cite misunderstandings of to admins and other experienced editors. Try reading the policies for their spirit, without prejudice, and for their relevance to what you do, instead of for the service you (mistakenly) think they can do you as ammunition. Seriously, I do believe a whole new, more interesting, editing world would open to you! Bishonen | talk 10:45, 11 August 2007 (UTC).

I think I am being wrongly accused here. I realise that making drastic changes was a little forthright, but I chose to be bold as I was surprised to find an article about, as I saw it, the wrong subject. I only reverted once to give the idea a chance, and after that I only talked, so I don't think I was disruptive at all. I still think the article is about the wrong subject, and the reason that I failed to get approval, which shocked me, is that a number of editors have worked on this article for a long time with blinker on, and cannot see the obvious. What they have written is a second article about the modern evolutionary synthesis where I think there should be a general article about Evolution. They refer me to History of evolution, but I'm not talking about history alone, rather about Evolution as an ongoing subject of study (not one theory). I was jumped on as a Creationist (which I am certainly not!) and accused of sock-puppetry. Such stuff is surely abuse against the priciple of 'assume good faith'. Even you talk of 'remote looking contingency'. This personal approach is all wrong. I made a drastic edit in good faith, with comment as to why; and when it was instantly reverted, I reverted back to make clear the fact that I was serious. After that I just talked and made no more edits. That's it! No big deal! No need for dire warnings surely? Take a look. My name only appears twice in the entire history of the page! What on earth is going on? --Memestream 14:15, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

You ask a number of questions to which the answers are already present in my note on your page, which is a classic way of wearing out the person you're talking to. (If protesting two separate times and ignoring my original response above wasn't enough, that is.) I will answer once more.

• You only appear twice in the history, yes. Ten or fifteen times would have been better. As I said, "the proper thing would have been to introduce such startling changes more gradually", in other words to make a number of smaller edits instead of one huge edit, to which you then revert, in other words make yet another huge (and despite your casuisistry about reverting "to give the idea a chance" and "to make clear the fact that I was serious", utterly unconstructive) edit.
• There is nothing personal (?) or offensive (??) in the phrase 'remote looking contingency'", it's purely descriptive. Read the sentence it's part of again, please: there is a massive consensus against your change, so it looks remote that you'll get consensus for it. Is that me not assuming good faith? No, that's you (whether deliberately or not) failing to follow a perfectly straightforward argument.
• Read the essay WP:AAGF. The Assume Good Faith principle is something to be kept in mind in our own dealings, not an offensive weapon. (Frankly, nothing makes a worse impression than lobbing "You have to believe me, it's policy!" at the people you're arguing with. Think about it.) As for "What on earth is going on?"--well, looking at your several posts above, and the way you ignored my reply, I would say trolling. Please don't waste your time posting on this page again (it will be removed). Take a little time to read the replies I've already given instead. Bishonen | talk 16:04, 14 August 2007 (UTC).

Querry

My Little Pony? El_C 11:22, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

• Oh, man. I suppose you think they're cute? I removed some more spam links plus one whole section while I was about it, and warned your spammer again. Bishonen | talk 18:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC).

• I used to pet and ride the real thing, of course. El_C 22:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

• I see we both removed the "revised" [sic] section. I don't know why I didn't get an edit conflict, but the fact is I didn't. No harm done, I guess. And so goodnight. Bishonen | talk 22:24, 11 August 2007 (UTC).

• Goodnight? But I just got here. El_C 22:26, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

informal

I chose to pursue resolution as an informal process. I followed the instructions and made the post. I am not attempting to prove anything, I am seeking an amicable solution. I cannot reply in that forum without creating further disruption. I do not think it is appropriate to ask an editor to pool up a series of insults (real or imagined) for the delectation of the community. If it is necessary for me to show where I was linked to holocaust denial, I can. But it is in plain sight, at the talk pages I pointed out. As I say, it is an informal process that has guidelines, I followed these in the interest of a harmonious result. I would appreciate it, if you could change your comment to reflect the instructions at the top of the page. Apologies for posting here and not there, I think I've explained why I can't. I'm being as discrete as possible, enigmatic is not the word I would chosen. 'Shaming others' is my complaint, not my intent. I hope you can help. Fred ☻ 19:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Diffs aren't a formality. I'm sorry, but discretion to the point of enigma makes it pointless to post on a public page. Do you see the people saying that they can't understand what the problem is? If you're not interested in outside comment but are only speaking to the people you're mad at, why not do it on their talkpages? I'm sorry you're upset, but the argument that you can't be specific because people would derive "delectation" from it... seriously, do you expect them to comment at random on something they don't get to read? Or to be so intrigued by the promise of delectation that they go chasing it down in the histories of long, busy talkpages? No, I'm afraid I can't help in such a situation. I wish I could, but I just don't have time to winkle out the offending items and the dialogue round them. Bishonen | talk 22:02, 11 August 2007 (UTC).

Hi. I posted the requested diffs. Fred ☻ 16:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

If you have a moment, I would appreciate your comment. Thanks. Fred ☻ 11:49, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Admin Help?

Hey Bish, or any of you fine admins who often watch this page...Today's featured pic (Image:Apollo 11 bootprint.jpg) has a mighty strange caption that doesn't make sense whatsoever (what does the sentence "This photo shows the undisturbed patch of ground before he placed his boot there" mean?). Unfortunately, the image and it's caption are protected from editing by little users like me. Can you please fix it? Thanks! --SGT Tex 16:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The benevolence of groundhog and other (cotton)tails

Sometimes, chips ask for peanuts by placing front paws on my legs. Yesterday, I was giving groundhog a few peanuts, and of course, pettings, when a chip came and placed front paws on groundhog's tummy, asking for a peanut. To groundhog's credit, munching of peanut continued uninterrupted (don't worry, everyone got peanuts). Also, there a new cotton tail in bridgeland, a small one. Unlike rabbitty, who is rather tame (or should I say timid), despite being larger, and never gets too close, this one actually was eating out my hand and even let me pet its head! That was a few days ago. Yesterday, I saw groundhog alarmed about something and went away, then I turned around and saw it was rabbitty, jr.! Oh, and there's new raccoon who seemed really thin, so I gave him some food (which he took right out of my hand, then ran to eat it under the bridge, repeating the process about 10 times). Sorry, no pics this time; you'll just have to imagine it! El_C 18:15, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Protest against - Don't revert war on Evolution

Moved up to where you already protested and I already replied. Bishonen | talk 16:04, 14 August 2007 (UTC).

Edit warring by admins, the RFC crowd

Hey Bishonen,

As you probably know already, the Photo editing article is still locked thanks to the inability of certain editors there to follow policies, discuss issues, etc. and devolve into filing RFCs and making harassing edits instead of deal with the actual article. As you also know, the admin User:Arthur Rubin has repeatedly used his admin status as a club to try to enforce his side in edit conflicts, as we've seen this problem for months, including harassing comments, a block of an IP address for "vandalism" when it was just an edit he didn't want to happen, etc. Now he has taken to editing locked articles to change to his preferred version (edit here). This is especially troublesome, as the Photo editing article has previously been locked to try to encourage discussion and compromise and their side refuses to do so, preferring to keep the article locked at their version. With another related article locked now also their way they continue to have no reason to discuss... and considering that that article in question is just a redirect to a subsection of an article (Photoshopping) they will never have any reason to discuss that page, as it's the way they want ad can be locked until kingdom come. I was hoping you might do something here to try to get around the impasse. DreamGuy 15:52, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

And you know, it would be helpful if you showed up at the RFC to mention the fact that the complaining editors largely are people that you have had to warn for harassment in the past... I mean, the page is a who's who of abusive editors largely. DashaKat and Empacher are major POV-pushers on the DID article, MartinPhi was someone pushing the "reality" of psychic powers onto articles, Arthur Rubin is a very aggressive and bullying admin... I don't go around treating Wikipedia as a social experiment making friends so buddies can come back me up when people level coordinated attacks like this, but I would hope that people who are here to improve an encyclopedia would say something of assistance when so many people who clearly are not here to improve things gang up. Sometimes I am in your face with these people, but they have always been in my face with me, and it's clear that they hope to get my banned so that they can continue to make abusive edits with one less person to stop them. So how do we stop that? DreamGuy 16:15, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to write something on the RFC, but am finding it rather difficult, so it may take a while longer still. :-) Bishonen | talk 12:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC).

ArbCom

I agree that it is a good idea to undelete Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Petri Krohn, although I do not want to be a party in this ArbCom. Maybe you should however protect the page as the case is not open. -- Petri Krohn 10:53, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Good thinking. Done. Bishonen | talk 11:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC).