Talk:Araksi Çetinyan

Armenian script

As long as I understand, Արաքսի Չէդինեան (formerly used in this article) = Araksi Çedinyan, Արաքսի Չեթինյան = Araksi Çetinyan. Takabeg (talk) 13:42, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, as long as you understand but you don't, at times. That source is written in Armenian therefore uses Armenian characters. Find a Chinese internet website with the news and you will write her name in Chinese characters... Not acceptable. Please remove it yourself. Thanks. --E4024 (talk) 13:47, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

User:E4024 claimed If we find the news in a Chinese source, will we write the name in Chinese characters?! Removed "sourced nonsense". But this person is an Armenian. In Turkey Armenian citizens use his/her own name also in Armenian script (See: Hrant Dink, Sevan Nişanyan). If she were member of the Chinese community in Turkey, Chinese character can be added. But she was member of the Armenian community, Chinese characters (for example 阿拉斯 切廷扬 = Araksi Chetinyan) is needless. Takabeg (talk) 13:49, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Photo

Probably File:Araksi cetinyan.jpg is not the photo of Araksi Çetinyan but Günseli Başar. Takabeg (talk) 05:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree. Removed. Proudbolsahye (talk) 05:15, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Another honest mistake... --E4024 (talk) 14:52, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

It wasnt my mistake. It was the mistake of certain newspaper sources. I just reflected them. Proudbolsahye (talk) 19:47, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Source falsification or another "honest" mistake?

The source No 5 (at the moment) refers to the 1929 beauty contest in Turkey and not this one. As we have in this article a user who frequently makes "honest mistakes" I wanted to attract attention to this situation. Someone please remove that edit as I do not like to be taken as I have a personal issue with any user. Thanks.--E4024 (talk) 21:26, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

 Done OK ? Takabeg (talk) 22:06, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

One more source falsification

Here: "According to the information given by Mr. Alen Mouradian, the organizer of the competition; the first contest had organized on May 3rd in Istanbul, Turkey which is thousands of miles away from here.

The competition has held at Beyoglu district of Istanbul, in Melek Cinema Hall and the winner was Miss. Araksi Çetinyan, who was working in the cinema as place demonstrator. But when the newspapers claimed that Miss. Araksi Çetinyan was favored, the organizers deemed that the contest doesn’t done and retrieve the title given to Araksi Çetinyan.

If the title of Miss. Araksi Çetinyan was not ignored, Miss Cavagnaro of whom her beauty browsed around tongue to tongue would not receive this title."

This is from one of the sources. The source says Miss Çetinyan was favoured and her title retrieved.

We have a serious problem here. I suggest the user who makes continuous "honest mistakes" be blocked from editing WP. I may show the other "honest mistakes" (I mean the ones that I have been able to detect) in case there is an administrative interested in this situation... --E4024 (talk) 21:40, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. She still won. Proudbolsahye (talk) 21:58, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

It's certain that Araksi won first place prize. And then it was disseized. See Araksi’nin tacı nasıl elinden alındı (How Araksi's cornet was disseized ?) Takabeg (talk) 22:41, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

• According to Didem Yalınay's "Ayrıcalık Arayışında Numaralanmış Bedenler: Güzellik Yarışmaları - Miss Turkey 2009" (Inonu University Journal of Art and Design, Special Edition Vol.1, 2011), Araksi Çetinyan was not working for the cinema as place demonstrator. She was the daughter of the place demonstrator of Melek Sinema. Takabeg (talk) 23:04, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
• According to Mustafa Özgür's "Ahlaksızlık 80 yaşında", it was not taken seriously because Turkish girls were not accredited. But I don't known whether this essay is considered as an identifying reliable source or not. Takabeg (talk) 23:14, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

• See Türkiye'nin ilk güzeli, Hürriyet, 1 March 1998.

According to ‘‘Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi’’ which was published in 1932,

‘‘Türkiye'de ilk güzellik müsabakası, altı yedi sene evvel bir film şirketinin tertibi ile Melek Sineması'nda yapılmıştır. Bu müsabaka, ciddi ve muntazam bir şekilde tertip edilmediği için iyi olmamıştır. Sahneye çıkan kızların bazıları alkışlar, bazıları ıslıklarla karşılanmış, bir takım delikanlı grupları kendi tanıdıkları ve beğendikleri kızlar lehinde gürültülü nümayişler yapmışlar, nihayet birinciliği, aynı sinemada halka yer gösteren Madmazel Araksi Çetinyan isminde bir Ermeni kızı kazanmıştır. Bu müsabakanın mükafatı, birincinin sinema artisti olarak Amerika'ya gönderilmesi olduğu halde Madmazel Araksi Çetinyan'ın hâlâ İstanbul'da olması maksadın, müsabakayı tertip eden film şirketinin üste para da kazanarak kendisine reklâm yapmak isteyen bir açıkgözlüğünden ibaret olduğunu göstermiştir. Bu ilk güzellik müsabakası halk ve gazeteler tarafından istihza ile karşılanmıştır.’’

Hürriyet took this from the book of Gökhan Akçura. Abdullah Muradoğlu also quoted same sentence.

And according to ‘‘Güzellik Kraliçeleri ve Güzellik Müsabakalarının Tarihçesi’’, Araksi was working for the sinema.

Takabeg (talk) 23:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

@User:E4024: I will control them. Please read Wikipedia:Assume good faith, Wikipedia:Civility etc.. again. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 22:41, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

If you're not Turkish...you're not taken seriously. Is this a justifiable reason for disregarding the first beauty pageant in Turkey and seizing the crown of an Armenian woman? It's not like Araksi Cetinyan lost her beauty qualifications right after the competition was over. Therefore, there is no other assumption left for us to consider other than the fact that there are large sociopolitical factors that forced her to give up her crown. These factors have nothing to do with her beauty, which debases the entire nature of a beauty contest. Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:20, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

If you are not taken seriously, that should be because of your past and present attitude in WP (copyvio, misuse of sources, "honest mistakes" etc); although that is not my case. I take you seriously and observe this pattern of contributions because they all yield one to think that you are not editing WP with an NPOV (objective) approach but your contributions are all aimed at pushing a personal agenda product of a national(ist) POV. You know that better than anyone, this is why you make the above "projection" which also constitutes an attack on Turkish Wikipedians. --E4024 (talk) 23:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

When I said "If you're not Turkish...you're not taken seriously." it was in reference to the Mustafa Özgür's "Ahlaksızlık 80 yaşında" source because it said it was not taken seriously because Turkish girls were not accredited. This has nothing to do with you or Turkish Wikipedians. Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:24, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Also I insist you stop calling me a "nationalist", "racist", trying to get me banned with "SPI"'s, and constantly trying to poke fun at my mentioning of "honest mistake". Please respect the Wikipedia:Five pillars and Wikipedia:Civility. Proudbolsahye (talk) 23:27, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

That blog? No "normal editor" would use something like that as a source in WP. Neither an expert on usurping sources who is very active around here dared do that. You look at the mirror and decide if you are nationalist or not; I only look at your patter of contributions and see that they are all dedicated to pushing a certain nationalist POV. I do not remember having called you racist (show me where, if it is not another of your "honest" mistakes) but if I did that it should have been out of despair/frustration for those biassed edits of yours. --E4024 (talk) 10:43, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

More than "misuse" of sources

User Proudbolsahye is destroying WP. Now that their article has been demonstrated not to depend on the NPOV and good-faith use reliable sources but the misuse of dubious sources, they began lying. I just removed a lie "that the said contest was invalidated due to "lack of ethnic Turkish women participating" (because there is nothing like that in the given sources) and they reverted my removal with this edit summary: "Please read hurriyet source number 7 " “Namuslu her Türk kızı” müsabakaya iştirak edebilirken bar kadınları yarışmadan men edilmiştir.” That source is about the first beauty contest in Turkey realised in the year 1929. It says that every modest (decent) Turkish girl may attend and women of "bars" are prohibited from participation. Miss Araksi Çetinyan has attended the contest as one of the participating modest (decent) Turkish girl and finished as third. I have no clue what this has to do with the so-called contest in 1925 (or 26 ?). (The "bar women" is a qualification of those times referring to certain professions and has nothing to do with the participating ladies; it is about those other ladies who would not be accepted to the contest. And I repeat this is about the contest of 1929 and has nothing to do with this article. --E4024 (talk) 10:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)