Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Failed log/January 2009

This article has twice been nominated, unsuccessfully, for Featured List status.

1. Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/110th United States Congress/archive1, September 29, 2007
2. Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/110th United States Congress/archive2, January 20, 2009

It's an honor just to be nominated.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 02:04, 10 March 2009 [1].

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List of Popotan episodes

Nominator(s): じんない

I believe the last of any signifigant issues have now been resolved. じんない 20:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from NocturneNoir

Comments from NocturneNoir (talk · contribs) "The DVD box cover of the Popotan anime." from the caption, is not a sentence. Corrected. Combined the 2 sentances.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) "The anime, which features character designs by Haruka Sakurai based on the original concept by Akio Watanabe[2][3] under the alias of Poyoyon Rock,[4][5] was developed by Shaft, directed and storyboarded by Shinichiro Kimura, and written by Jukki Hanada." is very convoluted. Try splitting it up into multiple sentences. Done. Semi-colon split the character designs (which was probably the section that made it so convoluted).じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) "They originally aired on TBS's satellite station BS-i from July 17, 2003 through October 2, 2003" needs a comma before and after BS-i. Done.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) "From August 15, 2003 through August 17, 2003 the first episode of Popotan, "Secret House", was shown for free at Ishimaru Electronics in Japan." needs a comma after the second 2003 and personally, I would use "to" instead of "through" or just exchange the whole intro for "Between August 15 and August 17, 2003,". Done.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) "At the same time Bandai released DVDs without the figurines at a lower cost." Needs a comma after "time". Done.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) "The discs also came with a promotional figurine of one of the girls." I assume you mean "Each disc also came with..."? Yes. I changed it to that.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) "[11]Geneon USA licensed needs a space between the ref and the next sentence. Done.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) How come only the opening theme is mentioned and not the closing theme? More detail could be given here, including the name of the artist. I added all information on the any release based directly on the anime's songs.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) EP# should be bolded. Other lists tend to just use # as well, so you may want to consider that. I personally don't care either way. Done...i believe.じんない 03:27, 3 March 2009 (UTC) Do "mansion" and "ghosts" really need to be wikilinked? Same with most of the other wikilinks in the episodes; I'd assume most readers know what "Christmas" is. I removed ghosts as it's not that pertinent to the story. Christmas, or rather the idea of Christmas, plays a somewhat more important role in the anime and while most people might be familiar with it, it is also relevant to the topic, especially as it relates to 1 episode in particular. Mansion...well...i could remove that one. While it is a central location not knowing about it would not inpede one's reading of the list as much as Christmas would.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) On that note, can you wikilink to List of Popotan characters more often? I have never seen this series, so I had no clue who the characters are. I added links to characters mentioned not at the top. That should be enough links to that page.じんない 03:22, 3 March 2009 (UTC) I trust Malleus Fatuorum (talk · contribs) did a good job copyediting, so I won't even look at the episode list for errors I won't find. Good job on the list overall. And why yes, I stole this comment layout from Matthewedwards (talk · contribs). I quite like it. ɳOCTURNEɳOIR ( t • c ) 01:14, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I really dislike the formatting of some of the citation templates... Anyway, I did a minor c/e and tweaking, so I will support. ɳOCTURNEɳOIR ^{( t • c )} 04:21, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Comment: instead of using multiple sources for the Japanese epsiode titles, I believe it would be better to use a single source (perhaps http://www.b-ch.com/cgi-bin/contents/ttl/stry_list.cgi?ttl_c=601) as a general reference, as many other animanga FLs do. —tan³ tx 10:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Another comment: per WP:MOS-JA#Titles of books and other media, "S・U・K・I" is styled inappropriately, and should probably be "Suki". —tan³ tx 10:11, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Did this myself. —tan³ tx 03:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Done...took me a while to figure out what was the actual "title" and was was the "work" it was published under.じんない 10:19, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

No other problems I can see. Support. —tan³ tx 03:57, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from Rambo's Revenge (talk · contribs)

Sourcing It was mainly by concerns with reliable sourcing that held this back on the two previous occasions, and my previous concerns have now been satisfied. My only question is what is Getchu, and what makes it a reliable source, as I couldn't find much info about it. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:58, 4 March 2009 (UTC) Getchu is a major retailer of adult games in Japan. Sourcing from it would be analogous to sourcing from Amazon, I believe. —tan³ tx 00:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC) Other Comments Where you have multiple references (e.g. [10][18][19][11]) they should be in numeric order. Done.じんない 01:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC) Citations should use consistent templates, I changed one from {{citation}}, but wasn't sure if the Getchu was citing the website ({{cite web}}) or something else. The article cites various pages on Getchu. The article cites either the media itself or the web sites. No real print media beyond the media related to this exists that I know of.じんない 01:37, 6 March 2009 (UTC) I think you may have misunderstood. Most of the Getchu are {{cite web}} which is fine. However ref 27 and 29 use the form {{citation}}. These two refs need to be changed to a specific citation template – depending on whether you are citing the web page itself: {{cite web}}, or the CD notes: {{Cite album-notes}}. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 14:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC) Done.じんない 16:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC) The image is missing an fair-use rationale Done.じんない 01:28, 6 March 2009 (UTC) Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:58, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

• Support. I fixed any remaining issues I found myself. I wish to congratulate Jinnai for persisting with this, through 3 FLCs and my many opposes/comments. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 17:03, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Support My concerns were resolved in previous FLCs.

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 08:01, 17 January 2009 [2].

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German football champions

After addressing issues which caused the list to fail last time I feel it now meets the criteria necessary to be a featured list. Thanks in advance for your comments. NapHit (talk) 21:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

First of all, number of teams in the infobox is clearly wrong. Secondly, the introduction text states that German football champions are the winners of the Bundesliga. This is not correct for any championship before the 1963-64 season (when the Bundesliga was established). Team names do not correspond to their respective Wikipedia article. Personally, I feel that the East German champions should be included here as well. Table formatting is partially ugly, especially the first table is unnecessarily wide. There is a surplus |} before the 1963- section. Adding the number of titles in brackets next to each champion would add depth to the information. Overall, I feel the article has deteriorated since his last nomination. Madcynic (talk) 21:10, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Fixed the number of teams, the German champions are winners of Bundesliga, it is stated that the bundesliga came into existence in 1963 which clears up any confusion. Team names don't have to correspond to wikipedia articles, if this was the case in English football there would be F.C. in every line which is a nonsense. The names represented in the tables are the names commonly used in England. The table is markedly better since the last nom, this had been stated at WP:FOOTY. Look at List of FA Cup winners this has a table with full width. Removed the surplus |}. The number of titles in brackets is unnecessary and makes the table look cluttered. The East German champions should have a separate article as this was a different list and would confuse readers as it confused me. NapHit (talk) 21:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment

• "German football Championship" should be "German Football Championship" since it is a proper noun

Done NapHit (talk) 20:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• "Kaiserslautern are the only club to hve won the 2. Bundesliga and Bundesliga in successive seasons.": fix the typo on "have"

Done NapHit (talk) 20:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• • Also this sentence is very confusing to me before I realize "2. Bundesliga" is a different thing. Add a brief explanation on 2. Bundesliga and add "the" in front of Bundesliga in that sentence.

Done NapHit (talk) 20:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• Change all "n/a" to emdash

The n/a is fine and the key explains that the match was not played it should remain. NapHit (talk) 18:35, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• Why did you include third place winner in the second table? I think score should be included instead.

No. The second table is about the Bundesliga, a league competition. Therefore there is no score to include. OdinFK (talk) 08:40, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

—Chris! _ct 23:29, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments they have all been addressed. NapHit (talk) 20:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment

• "...the first recognized national championship was staged in Hamburg in 1903...": The first final was played in Altona. Altona became a borough of Hamburg in 1937.
• "Prior to the formation of the Bundesliga in 1963, the championship format was based on a knockout competition involving the winners from each of the country's top-flight regional leagues.": That wasn´t the case from 1934 to 1941 and again from 1951 to 1963 when there were group stages and then a knockout competition. --Hullu poro (talk) 16:49, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, they have all been addressed. NapHit (talk) 21:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment

• Table width is still an issue for me. The List of FA Cup winners full-width table uses 6 columns, whereas the one used here only has 4, and not one column is even close to being filled. Refer to the second table in the FA Cup winner article, you will see this is not full-width. NB: This applies only to the first table, the second table is sufficiently densely populated to justify full-width.

If there is a source which states where these matches were played I could include the venue, if there is a reliable source. NapHit (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Gruene's Crown Prince to Bundesliga. I have the book and can provide info. Wiggy! (talk) 18:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

That would be great, cheers. NapHit (talk) 18:50, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

If there is not a source, how about you reduce the table width? Madcynic (talk) 17:58, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeh I will see what others have to say first though. NapHit (talk) 18:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

See rsssf.com? Madcynic (talk) 18:15, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• Club names: If I remember correctly the article names are based on the "common name" principle. I therefore fail to see why you'd choose Hamburg over Hamburger SV or FC Nuremberg over 1. FC Nuremberg. Same thing applies to FC Köln which has the article at 1. FC Köln.
• Inclusion of East Germany. This should be decided, I don't quite see the point of mentioning BFC Dynamo without including a 1948-1991 championship table. I think the table should be in here, because I see the East German championship on par with the West German one, and ignoring it feels like passing judgment to me. Also it should be noted that Bundesliga champions have been regarded as national champions in West Germany, while the national champion in East Germany was the winner of the DDR-Oberliga as is well documented by the various East German participants in the European Cup. (first paragraph) You also don't want to get into the issue of whether East Germany was Soviet-controlled or not, I'd suggest removing that verbiage at this position.

Its not an issue or bit of POV. It is an historical fact and key to understanding why a separate football competition emerged in East Germany and why there were two championships. Wiggy! (talk) 18:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and no. The sentence "while a second national championship was contested in Soviet-controlled East Germany under the auspices of the DFV (Deutscher Fußball-Verband" relates to the entire period of the two championships, and I do not think this is appropriate.Madcynic (talk) 18:42, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I will just create a separate list for the East German info, and will remove reference to BFC Dynamo. NapHit (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

The East German championship deserves its own page, but hte material currently on this page puts that championship in the broad context of the country's history as a whole. I don't see a need to delete the short references - principle of least surprise.

• Sourcing of introduction. The intro needs more sources, esp with regard to the 1904 championship. Madcynic (talk) 17:36, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Hardy Gruene has a couple of books that'll be useful 100 Years of German Championships and From Crown Prince to Bundesliga. One of these is already identified at the project page. Tor! and CPtB both have info on the missing 1904 and 1922 championships. Wiggy! (talk) 18:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Well it was sourced properly before the lead was reworked, I'll sort it out soon. NapHit (talk) 17:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I mentioned in my comment at the project page that it would need to be resourced. Wiggy! (talk) 18:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Please keep in mind that a 5-sentence lead can be properly sourced but still not enough. So please do not remove information just because -you- cannot readily find a source. Wait if there are others who can. Madcynic (talk) 17:58, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Now you got that part about promotion and relegation wrong. 16th place has to play against 3rd in the 2. Bundesliga for a spot in the BL in the next season. OdinFK (talk) 19:26, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Fixed NapHit (talk) 19:50, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You're drifting guys. This is about the national championship, not about qualifying for different levels of play. Focus. You can't on one hand complain about the length of the thing and then drop in material that's not relevant. Wiggy! (talk) 21:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it's relevant it shows how the league works, and is brief. Anyway with the history section the lead needed beefing up a bit. NapHit (talk) 21:29, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

What is "They competed in Germany as the thrir was no national football federation in the Austro-Hungarian Empire." in the introduction supposed to mean? I guess it's just a typo, but then there might be a deeper meaning, I don't get... OdinFK (talk) 21:17, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Ye it's a typo, fixed now NapHit (talk) 21:21, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments

• I think the number of titles, which used to appear in brackets next to each champion, should be re-included, whether in a bracket as before or in a separate column. It's informative, something a reader might well want to know, and IMO rather more relevant to a list of German football champions than the third-placed team or the number of goals scored by the division's leading scorer.

That information appears in a separate table that follows the group of era-based lists. I agree that the third place and scorer info might be out of place, but will leave it set pending discussion. Wiggy! (talk) 17:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I didn't mean the total number of titles won by each club. I meant the bracketed number of titles against the winner of each year's championship, as in this old version, which informed the reader that, say, Bayern Munich won their fifth title in 1974. Struway2 (talk) 17:54, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• Table headings are inconsistent: should be either Champions and Runners-up (both plural) or Champion and Runner-up (both singular).

Resolved. Wiggy! (talk) 17:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• In the prose, names of football clubs shouldn't be in italics ...

Resolved. Wiggy! (talk) 17:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• ... and there are a number of hyphens which should be endashes.
• Not sure what the point is of making the leading scorer column sortable when some years have multiple scorers, so it sorts only on the first-named of joint top scorers.
• In general, as the structure and content of the list are being very actively changed as I type, it's quite hard to make sensible comments as they might be irrelevant by the time I next view the article. Perhaps it might be an idea to withdraw the nomination temporarily until the various editors finish their work, and then possibly put the article up for peer review before re-submitting? cheers, Struway2 (talk) 15:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Yep. Work in progress. But what you've posted here so far is still quite useful. Wiggy! (talk) 17:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment

• Club names should be consistent. For example Schalke is used as well as Schalke 04 or Hamburg and Hamburger SV are also both used. Also the table of total tiles won occasionally uses different names as the other tables. I would change that myself, but I'd like to keep out of this naming business as my preferences for which names should be used are quite different.
  • I see the inconsistency and have started to correct it preferring more complete names. I have been using "Hamburger SV" in place of "Hamburg" for example to disambiguate things - there are a lot of Hamburg clubs. In the case of VfB Leipzig vs. Lok, the club won the titles as VfB, Lok was an East German appellation. Etc. Wiggy! (talk) 12:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
• I wonder if FC Köln, VfR Mannheim and similar club names should be sorted as such. Shouldn't these sort as "Koeln, FC" and "Mannheim, VfR"?
  • Mmm. Hadn't considered that. Any experts out there on managing the sort tool? Wiggy! (talk) 12:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
    • If you check the tables before User:NapHit got involved, you will see they had exactly this funcionality. Hope that helps. Madcynic (talk) 13:04, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
      • Thanks for the tip. I'll look. Wiggy! (talk) 13:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
• Still "-" is often used where an ndash should be (in years and results especially). I fix these on occasion, but there are still more.
  • Speed typing. The m dashes will have to be added after. Sorry. Wiggy! (talk) 12:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
• I like the introductions to the tables, but they are totally devoid of refs.
  • As I mentioned above, I'm focusing on the prose side to start. Almost all of the material is from Vom Kronprinzen bis zur Bundesliga or Tor!. The later Bundesliga material will come from another source. After I read up on ref formatting I'll add the cites. Wiggy! (talk) 12:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
• Finally I wonder why the actual titles were removed from the Total titles won table. In my opinion that was quite useful to see at a glance when a certain club had successful periods.
  • Overzealous editing? Just a mistake. Oops?
  • Its coming along. I'm a little concerned about the length, but I think the general treatment of the thing is working out and its not a hard fast rule, so I'm not worried about it as the thing is still readable. Some of the longest articles on en:wiki are lists.
  • Will add a "see also" link for the East German championship as part of that section. May do the same for the Saarland and will probably say something in passing about the German amateur championsghip introduced in 1956(?). Other comment? Wiggy! (talk) 12:47, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

OdinFK (talk) 12:31, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

• Some more comments

Hey Wiggy!! I think you are doing great. A few more thoughts though:

• As far as I know external links are not supposed to be in the body of the article, when not absolutely necessary. There is one in the second paragraph of the intro, though. That might as well be a ref I think. There is another in 1903-32
• Naming consistency is still an issue with the last to tables (most sucessful clubs and tiltes by region)
• A few paragraphs still go uncited, but I understand that you might still be working on that.

When that's fixed I will give the article a thorough read again and tell you what I think. Regards, OdinFK (talk) 14:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the support. Its shaping up fairly well (I think) and everyone's been a big help. Almost down to the point where we can get to the seriously nitpicky stuff.

With repsect to the external links and citations, I'm just trying to work my way through how to do these things the right way. I only have some limited experienced with them as, for better or worse, I've always been a writer sort of guy and have given the short shrift to that side of it. I am repenting and trying to get a grip. :) More cites to go.

I've not completely standardized all the club names yet. Yeah, the last couple of tables are pending. I still need to go back and sort out the sorting issue(!) identified earlier.

I'm intending to make a reference to the women's championship, along the same lines as how the East German championships are handled: sub-header, paragraph, point to separate article.

Additional remarks, folks? Thx. Wiggy! (talk) 15:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

• Regarding this sentence in the introduction to Early Championships: "The formation of the DFB helped establish for the first time a clear divide between association football and its close cousin." Who is the close cousin? Non-association football? Is it just me or could that be formulated more clearly?

The sentence immediately before that one refers and wikilinks to rugby. One sentence builds on the next. Could be rebuilt maybe. Wiggy! (talk) 12:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• Should the names in the text be consistent with the names in the tables? I guess so.

Usually. Can depend on the context, I suppose. Wiggy! (talk) 12:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• References: The references seem to be of an inconsistent format. Sometimes the dates are missing, etc. Also I don't get what this Bibliography part is about. Can that not be incorporated in the regular References?

Yes, you have a point. Still a work in progress and needs cleaning up big time. Haven't had a chance to get at it over the past few days. Wiggy! (talk) 12:57, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Fix these things and I am pro FL. Regards, OdinFK (talk) 11:42, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Weak Oppose from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) The prose needs work; redundancy and some choppiness need to be weeded out or smoothed. These are just examples from the lead and the first section:

• "with VfB Leipzig defeating DFC Prag 7–2." When a gerund (defeating) follows a noun (VfB Leipzig), the result is usually awkward and ungrammatical. Perhaps: ", in which VfB Leipzig defeated DFC Prag 7–2."
• "Prior to"-->before.
• Whenever a year range is preceded by "from", change the en dash to "to". Sample: "from 1915–19 due to World War I and again from 1945–47"-->from 1915 to 19 due to World War I and from 1945 to 47.
• "Following World War II, Germany was occupied by the victorious Allies and two German football competitions emerged." Occupation doesn't make it clear why the two competitions emerged. You might mention that the country was divided in two.
• Inline citations should come after punctuation. Sample: " winning these championships in consecutive seasons (1979–88)[4]."
• "No champion was declared in 1904 due to the DFB not being able to resolve a protest filed by Karlsruher FV over their 1–6 semi-final loss to Britannia Berlin to determine which of these sides would face defending champion Leipzig in the final that year."-->No champion was declared in 1904 due to the DFB's inability to resolve a protest filed by Karlsruher FV over their 1–6 semi-final loss to Britannia Berlin to determine which of these sides would face defending champion Leipzig in that year's final.
• "Some limited play"
• "in the name of "good sportsmanship" — which they grudgingly did" Em dashes are unspaced on wiki, see WP:DASH.
• "other lesser national football competitions"
• "They disappeared in the 1933 reorganization of German football under the Third Reich that consolidated all sporting competition in state-sanctioned leagues."
• "Competition for the national title was maintained through most of World War II and was supported by the regime for reasons of morale."
• "Play became increasingly difficult as the war drew to its conclusion and in the era's final championship match Dresdner SC beat the military club LSV Hamburg 4–0 on 18 June 1944 in Berlin's Olympiastadion." These ideas (the difficulty of play and the final match) are not sufficiently related to warrant being connected by "and". What do you mean by "play became difficult"?
• "The 1944–45 season kicked off ahead of schedule in November," Comma should be a semicolon.
• "now occupied" Should be hyphenated. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:24, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
• Also, two dab links need to be fixed. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:24, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Sources

• Ref 2 needs a publisher and a note that it is German.
• What makes either of the two web sources reliable?
• The citation date formats are inconsistent. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:24, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 08:01, 17 January 2009 [3].

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List of Ah My Goddess episodes (season 1)

Hello, all. This is my first FL attempt. I originally split List of Oh My Goddess episodes into three separate lists because they were so long, and I am almost sure that this part was originally what caused List of Oh My Goddess episodes to become a featured list. Therefore, I am nominating this for FLC after having written a lead and peer reviewing it. There are some unaddressed points in the peer review, which I simply cannot answer, and are frankly irrelevant. I must warn, however, that I did not write a single of these episode summaries. I can rewrite some of them if need be, but I think they're fine as is. Thanks! NOCTURNENOIR^talk 02:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Comment As the peer review is only recently closed by yourself, this FLC seems very premature. The issues raised there should be answered as the ones I see that are not answered seem pretty relevant. Then look at FLC.-- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 02:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• To the first peer review comment, I created the lead following a recently created FLC and not List of YuYu Hakusho episodes (season 1). I was told several times that the format that older lists followed was improper (such as the bolding). Second, to "I would make clearer the connection between the manga and the episodes - are they new material or an adaptation of the books?", the light novels appeared AFTER the anime. I'm pretty sure the lead is clear in saying that the series is based on the manga. For "How did the events in them affect the second season? Why were they made?", they simply had no affect and I couldn't find a single source as to why they were made. Finally, the peer review only garnered one review after it hit the backlog, so I doubt it'll find more reviewers. If you would like to review the list, I would be happy to fix the list per your comments, but I don't see a reason that this should not go through FLC at this time because I doubt many others will be improving it. NOCTURNENOIR^talk 03:04, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose, as Dabomb87 noted, article is in very bad need for copyedit and seems in complete. He made a better list than I could, but one very basic error I see is claiming the series was released to DVD in the US. DVDs are released in North America, not the US alone (Region 1 covers the continent not the country), and its never even actually stated that Media Blasters only that they released it (and yes, it should be stated explicitly). Also, Season One isn't a proper noun. I do not feel some of the peer review comments have been adequately addressed, particularly with the need for the lead to follow recent FLs (rather than FLCs) for anime episode lists, the need to better clarify the relationship with the anime/manga - as the manga is on-going, how much does the anime episodes actually cover? What are the general references supposed to be for? The airdates already have a specific reference, so those seem to have no function. Why is the second season not even mentioned at all in the lead? What about other licensing? It was released in the UK, but the article isn't mentioned. What about other language releases? -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 01:09, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

FLC... I meant FLs. List of Bleach episodes (season 6), the most recent FL to pass, was what I based my lead off of. Working on the issues now... NOCTURNENOIR^talk 01:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• Alright, I think I've fixed all of the issues you brought up, Collectonian. Let me know if anything else is missing! By the way, I'm not entirely sure how relevant non-English releases of this would be on the English Wikipedia... If other FLs are any measure, that information is not included. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 19:52, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• Many FLs do include that information. Looking just at the Bleach season pages isn't fully representative of the anime FLCs as a whole. Part of the issue with this one is its really a blend of a season list and a standalone list because of the way the "season" is split, including between English licensors. I did some tweaks to the lead to reorder and reword some (actually using Bleach Season 6's list as a guide). When the episode summaries have been checked and CEed, pop a note here. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 21:12, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• I went into WP:ANIME and picked three random FLs: List of Black Lagoon episodes, List of Night Wizard episodes, and List of Kashimashi: Girl Meets Girl episodes. None of these had any information on non-English releases. Thanks for your help though, I'm working on answering those questions now. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 01:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

• Is there no better source for the DVD releases and airdates than ANN? While it is a reliable source, it should be the last resort for that information if the official sites has the same info. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 21:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• I have replaced every single ref and I have answers the questions. Anything further? NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 05:38, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs) If you don't want to see the article go through a complete peer review, that's fine, but the article needs a third-party copy-edit before FL status can be attained.

• "The season was released to DVD"-->The season was released on DVD...

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR^talk 03:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• I don't quite think that the tone of the first episode summary is encyclopedic. Phrases like "has a long and miserable day" "But even when things are going so poorly" are rather subjective and read like a story rather than a concise synopsis.

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 18:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• "After returning to the dorm just in time to receive the expected phone call"—"the"-->an.

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR^talk 03:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• "Keiichi tells Belldandy that he wishes for "a goddess like [her] to stay by [his] side forever," almost jokingly"-->Keiichi tells Belldandy jokingly that he wishes for "a goddess like [her] to stay by [his] side forever".

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR^talk 03:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• "The wish is actually granted and Belldandy reveals that she will be staying with Keiichi."

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR^talk 03:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• "Finally, Keiichi and Belldandy settle down for the night and spend the time talking as they begin to get to know each other. "-->Finally, Keiichi and Belldandy settle down for the night and get to know each other through conversation.

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR^talk 03:38, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• Generally, these are the main problems with the writing:
  • Tone, a result of being too close to the topic and the prose.
  • Verbose sentences that try to integrate too many thoughts, which inhibit the natural flow of the writing. Example: "So the two search for a place to stay until morning, a process complicated by the "System Force," which comes into effect whenever they are likely to be separated, effectively making it impossible for them to remain apart even for brief periods of time." I would suggest ending with a full stop (period) after "morning", and then starting, "However, their search is complicated by the "System Force", which..."
  • Excessive use of idle additive terms that, ironically, make the prose choppier. Examples: "So the two search for a place to stay until morning" and "Finally, desperate to defeat Belldandy, she takes Keiichi for a drive, only to fail when Keiichi reveals that he knows that Sayoko is only pretending to care about him. " Dabomb87 (talk) 00:44, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

doing By the way, it wasn't that I didn't want the article to go through a complete peer review. It was peer reviewed, and seeing as it did not garner any comments until it hit the PR backlog, I did not think it would be further reviewed. Would a large-scale rewrite of the episode summaries be suggested here? As these episode summaries were not written by me, I cannot vouch for their content/style. NOCTURNENOIR^talk 01:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

If you did not write the episodes, you should have probably consulted the person who did before nominating for FLC. Not all the episodes are "beyond repair" so to speak; however, a couple probably do need a reorganization—episodes 1 and 18 jump out at me on a quick look-over. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I did the best I can, so could you take another look over the episode summaries please? Thanks! NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 06:12, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment Please fix the dabs. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

• Fixed. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 18:59, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Are there any further issues holding this back from FL, or is the copyedit issue still present? I really don't think there are more issues with the prose and I'm not hearing anything from either of you (Dabomb87 and Collectonian) so I don't know what to think... If there is anything I can improve please let me know. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 20:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I only see some copyediting with the lead (which didn't really need it) and only four episodes. The rest haven't been CEed yet. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 20:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but are you sure those episodes need copyediting? I had some people look at them and they had no objections... NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 20:41, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't have time for much Wiki-editing today, so my revisit will have to wait till tomorrow (CST), probably about 18 hours from now. I will look at the article again soon today. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Heh, as long as it doesn't fail between now and then, I've got all the time in the world. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} —Preceding undated comment was added at 04:11, 13 January 2009 (UTC).

Apologies for my very late rejoinder—I have been held up by real life and an Arbcom case. Expect my comments in a few minutes. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

More comments I am not retracting my oppose yet. There has been definite improvement, and I feel that the article is within reach. However, the summaries need a good scrubbing by an uninvolved editor.

• "In spite of this, Keiichi still goes out of his way to help a young girl, Hijiri" Why should having to watch a telephone impede his helping another girl? To be specific, my issue is with the phrase "In spite of this, Keiichi still".
  • The reference is to his bad luck, which I believe was removed in a previous revision. The point being that he helps out others even when he himself is in no position to do so (as he should probably help himself first). I completely reworded this anyways, so the issue should be gone. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "After returning to the dorm and receiving the expected call," There is no explanation for what the call is for despite two references to it in the summary.
  • The anime literally has him pick up the phone, take a message, and hang up. I don't really think it's all that important and I'm entirely unsure as to what I would write for it if anything. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "The two search for a place to stay until morning but their efforts are complicated by the "System Force" which makes it impossible for them to remain apart even for brief periods of time" Needs two commas—one goes after "morning"; can you spot where the other one should go?
  • I'm unsure if the comma should go after the quotation or before it... I've placed it before as that's where it usually goes, but correct me if I'm wrong. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "Eventually Keiichi and Belldandy are able to settle down for the night and get to know each other through conversation. " Also, add a comma after "Eventually".
• ". They initially are met with good luck when they meet Hijiri" Too wordy and unclear, besides, the fact that they received a free meal conveys their apparent "luck" to the reader. Also, can you elaborate on how they get the meal? I assume that Hijiri did not conjure it out of thin air for fun.
  • Fixed. It'd be kinda awesome if she did though... NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "blows Keiichi's single note" What do you mean by "note"? I know that it mentions that it is her fortune later, but can you be more clear? Maybe "banknote"?
  • Fixed. I would have used "bill," but not sure if that would make it any clearer. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )}
• "After witnessing Belldandy saving Keiichi by using her magic and seeing Belldandy's angel, Holy Bell, the priest is inspired go on a pilgrimage and leaves the temple in their hands. " The noun + -ing construction is clumsy and ungrammatical, try: "Belldandy saves Keiichi by using her magic; after witnessing this incident and seeing Belldandy's angel, Holy Bell, the priest is inspired go on a pilgrimage and leaves the temple in their hands. "
  • My fix is slightly different from yours, so you may want to take a look and confirm that I fixed the problem. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "Unfortunately, Professor Osawa is suspicious and decides to investigate."
  • Another slighty different fix. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "self help book"-->self-help book
  • Fixed. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "to look for advice on how"
  • Fixed. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "Keiichi determines to be himself " "determines"-->resolves or decides, take your pick.
  • Fixed. "Decides" it is. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• "Unfortunately, Belldandy mistakes his nervousness for illness and rushes Keiichi off to his room and uses magic to "heal" him." "and...and" repetition distracting, try: "Unfortunately, Belldandy mistakes his nervousness for illness and rushes Keiichi off to his room, using magic to "heal" him." Dabomb87 (talk) 03:20, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

• Couple questions for you... First, do you happen to know where I can find a good copyeditor? WP:ANIME is decidedly lacking of FL-level copyeditors. In addition, would you happen to have a suggestion for a solution to the episode 12.5 issue mentioned below? Thanks! (Don't worry about time, by the way. I've got all the time in the world and this week has been supremely bad for my Wikipedia activity too). NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

• Yes, this is rather unfortunate. Maybe User:Dinoguy1000 or User:Sephiroth BCR can help? WRT the other issue, what you did looks fine. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:54, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

• Link and spell out first occurance of "OVA" for people who don't know what it means.

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• "Episodes one through 12" - 12 to twelve as WP:MOSNUM says comparable quantities should be consistent.

• Hmm, that's what I had before Julian copyedited... I'll have to tell him about that. Anyways, done. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• The above will affect the rest of the paragraph - spell the episode numbers out.
• Episode #'s - they should not be "01", "02", "03" etc. -> 1, 2, 3, etc.

• Done. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• Episode 12.5: this is completely unreferenced. The airdate ref doesn't cover this episode, and it's name etc. are also completely unreferenced. Also is "Episode 12.5" just a name you made up for the recap episode?

• It's not made-up at all. I've added two refs to prove its existence. I'm not entirely sure if it's an official episode or not, but it certainly exists. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• Unfortunately TV.com is not a reliable source, and neither is the encyclopedia section of ANN per this from WP:MANGA

• Alright, I literally could not find a reliable source. However, CDJapan has this, which indicates the existance of 27 episodes. Without including episode 12.5, there aren't 27 episodes. I cannot prove it's existence with reliable sources otherwise... It's quite odd, really. Maybe I just don't know how to find sources well? NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 21:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
• According to TV.com, it was never aired in the U.S., which means it doesn't have an official U.S. title. However, WP:ANIME stipulates that airdates are "Generally reliable" so I trust them to be correct. Should I remove the U.S. title and put a note about it under the table or something? NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 23:00, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• Removed the title and replaced it with a note. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 23:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• That still doesn't change the fact that it is completely unreliably sourced. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:16, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

• In the context of the situation, Anime News Network is the best available source. This was the only other source I could find. The official site pretends it doesn't exist, but I've seen it myself, so I'm forced to believe it exists... I can't think of a better solution than to remove the episode altogether, but that simply doesn't change the fact that episode is a real episode (albeit without reliable sources). What is the best course of action? NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 13:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
• Finally sourced. Hopefully, this one is reliable... NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 03:08, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

• Also I believe the archive link (reference 3) is broken.

• Replaced with an earlier archive version... There seems to be something wrong with the most recent archive as of right now. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 20:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

• The archive seems to be working again, so I've restored the link. NOCTURNENOIR ^{( m • t • c )} 23:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:48, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 08:01, 17 January 2009 [4].

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List of monarchs of the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia

Did this un a while back, never got around to nominating it. As always, comments welcome. Ironholds (talk) 21:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Support Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "by Armenian refugees fleeing" Noun + -ing sentence construction awkward here.
• File:Rupoohye.GIF needs a source. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

  Suggestion for the sentence construction, then? The image might be a problem; 1) it was uploaded by a banned user, 2) it has been moved around and re-uploaded so many times I cannot see the original and third the source is given as 'Hayastan Page 6'. Now I'm assuming it is a book but given that 'Hayastan' is the Armenian word for, well, Armenia, it doesn't really narrow things down much. I'll Assume Bad Faith as it were and remove the image now. Ironholds (talk) 20:14, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

  Suggestion: "The Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia was a state formed in the Middle Ages by Armenian refugees, who were fleeing the Seljuk invasion of Armenia." Dabomb87 (talk) 20:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

  Done. Thanks for the reviewing, by the way; I've done 6 featured list noms through this way and your comments have always been fantastically useful. Ironholds (talk) 20:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments

• Have you considered making the table sortable? It is a minor point but it may make the table even more useful.
• Anything appropriate you could link to Seljuk invasion as I have no idea what this is and it´d no doubt enhance my enjoyment of the list if I did...!
• Maybe it's the altitude kicking in but I don't follow the sentence which starts " Initially regional princes, close ties with the..." too well...
• Probably being strict, but that last sentence of the lead needs a citation - I'm guessing it's from Mutafian or Boase? Perhaps a specific page ref would be better.
• No status for Leo II is a little confusing.
• I'm also a little confused by the monarch's whose dates overlap e.g. presumably Sempad coruled with Thoros III? Not sure...

Otherwise I enjoyed it. Good work. The Rambling Man on tour (talk) 20:55, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose, for the following reasons:

• The short prose in the lead is awkward — see FL criteria 1
• Only three references are cited in the text, none of which are in the English language — see WP:VUE. No references are provided for any of the entries
• Hierarchy of references is not MoS compliant; section is inconsistently formatted — see FL criteria 5
• It lacks "annotations that provide useful and appropriate information about entries" — see FL criteria 3 (and below)
• It contains no sections (other than references) and, crucially, no table sort — see FL criteria 4

I'm not really sure why the monarchs of Cyprus (distant cousins of the last ruling monarch) are included; the Dukes of Savoy are not. Indeed there is no mention of why the title (in pretence) passed directly to Charles I in 1485; Cyprus itself had already passed to James II in 1464 and (although the titular claim to Jerusalem did pass to Louis after James III in 1474) was only disputed by the Duke from 1485 until after the reign of Catherine Cornaro in 1489. It is incorrect, therefore, to say that "the title fell out of use" in 1485, as it passed to the House of Savoy (as stated) and remained in official use as late as 1946. The table incidently, is also inconsistent with this statement, ending at 1467.

Featured lists should "exemplify Wikipedia's very best work" and satisfy all the criteria. Overall, I feel this table would be better placed in the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia article. Chrisieboy (talk) 23:23, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

PS. Choess just beat me adding "King" Leo II ;-) However, with whom was Isabella co-ruler until 1226 and Hethum I from 1252? How was Leo III "King, then co-ruler" from 1301 to 1307, while Hethum II was co-ruler from 1299 to 1307? What happened in 1341/2, 1373/4 and from 1393 to 1396? I think we should be told... Chrisieboy (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 08:01, 17 January 2009 [5].

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List of current National Football League head coaches

I feel that it is at FL quality --Mr.crabby (Talk) 03:12, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose from Killervogel5

Fails criteria 1, 5, and 7, and possibly 2, since I don't believe that the lead is long enough for a list of this type. I would prefer 1 more introductory paragraph of information speaking about the history of coaching in the league.

• "Their are currently 27 head coaches in the National Football League, while seven teams currently have a vacancy at that position."

• "Their"→"there"
• There are 32 teams in the league, so there cannot be 34 head coaches (27+7).
• 27 (which should be 25) and 7 are comparative numbers, so twenty-five should be written out.
• Add (NFL) after National Football League to explicitly define what the abbreviation means.

• Separate winning percentage out from the record column so that the table can be sorted by that statistic (since you refer to it in the lead).
• "Four head coaches: Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, and Lovie Smith, have won the AP Coach of the Year Award for coaching their current team."→"Four head coaches (Bill Belichick, Sean Payton, Andy Reid, and Lovie Smith) have won the AP Coach of the Year Award for coaching their current team."
• "Other current coaches that have led their team to a Super Bowl victory include: Tom Coughlin of the New York Giants,[7] Tony Dungy of the Indianapolis Colts,[3] and Jon Gruden of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers."→"Other current coaches that have led their team to a Super Bowl victory include Dungy, Tom Coughlin of the New York Giants, and Jon Gruden of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers." (see more comments below about trimming redundant language.
• All records need to have en-dashes between wins and losses, per WP:DASH, though I would prefer to see wins and losses in separate columns.
• "Bobby Petrino resigned after Week 4 of the 2007 NFL season, causing Assistant Coach Emmitt Thomas to be appointed as the interim coach for the remainder of the season."→"assistant coach" and so forth for all footnotes.
• "San Fransisco 49ers"→"San Francisco 49ers"
• "Vacant"→"vacant"
• All references to Pro Football Reference need to provide Sports Reference LLC as the publisher and Pro Football Reference as the work.
• It needs to be specified that all records apply with current teams only (a la Herman Edwards, since he came from the Jets beforehand, etc.).
• Remove redundant language.

• "After Jeff Fisher"→"After Fisher"
• "Titans coach Jeff Fisher also has"→"Fisher has"
• "Bill Belichick has won the Super Bowl"→"Belichick has won"

• Bill Belichick is overlinked in the lead. So are Tony Dungy, Indianapolis Colts and Andy Reid.
• Remove all links from the image captions since they are linked elsewhere in the article.
• "regular season winning percentage of .759" - link winning percentage
• "worst winning percentage amoung all active coaches"→"among"
• "leader amoung all current head coaches."→"among"
• I suggest adding a key that shows, using color and a symbol, coaches with Super Bowl victories, and coaches with significant achievements as outlined in the lead (longest tenure, etc.).
• In addition, this list fails WP:WIAFL#C7 because all of the coaching vacancies are subject to change without any notice right now because of the offseason. We are also still in the middle of the postseason, so the awards are also not static at the moment.

This list should have had a copyedit and a peer review before coming here to fix most of these issues; please consider it next time. Hope this helps. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 13:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment - I wonder if this list would be better called "List of National Football League head coaches as of the end of the 2008 season", or something along those lines. After all, the list won't be "current" for very long unless it is very actively maintained. Rlendog (talk) 18:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

If it's just "as of 2008", it's probably going to end up getting deleted rather than promoted per WP:RECENT. This is part of my concern under Criterion 7. KV5 • Squawk box • Fight on! 20:42, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

It wouldn't be that hard to keep a list like this current. Zagalejo^^^ 07:16, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

It wouldn't be hard, but that doesn't mean it will be kept current. If, on the other hand, the list was titled "List of 2009 National Football League head coaches" I would have more confidence that the current openings will be updated when filled, and then if people continue to want to maintain a list like this they can make a "List of 2010 National Football League head coaches" next year. But if this doesn't continue to be maintained, the a "List of 2009 National Football League head coaches" will still be accurate. Rlendog (talk) 21:30, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Dabomb87 13:53, 14 January 2009 [6].

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List of Bleach chapters

I have nominated this list after having gone through copy-edit and a peer review. Regards.Tintor2 (talk) 22:28, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• Comments, for "The individual chapters are collected by Shueisha in a series of tankōbon volumes, which also include a poem by the cover character" maybe a slight rewording of "The individual chapters are collected and published by Shueisha in tankōbon volumes, which are also given English names and which have a poem "composed" by the cover character" (since the characters didn't really write the poems :) and to explain the English names in the table. Other than that, "Viz released the first volume on June 1, 2004, and the twenty-fifth on December 2, 200" seems to imply that Viz is only releasing 25. Why not use the standard "Viz Media released the first volume on June 1, 2004, as of December 2008 twenty-five volumes have been released." The two sentences that follow could be combined in into one. Also, its never specifically/explicitly noted that Viz licensed the series, only that it serialized it and published it. "The distributing company Viz Media..." seems a bit of a mis-description to me. Viz doesn't just distribute other people's work. It licenses, with translation, anime and manga, but it also produces original content in the form of its various magazines and it releases live-action films as well. If the sentence is kept in that format, maybe use "North American licensor Viz Media..." -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 01:33, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Done.Tintor2 (talk) 13:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

I know the list had a CE, but it still seems to have at least some incompleteness and some errors. Like the volume 1 summary says Ichigo slayed a Hollow. Hollows are dead, you can't kill something again. Pretty sure he didn't "kill" him, but what is it they called it, cleanse? I don't have my volume on hand at the moment to check the term and explanation on that. It also neglects to note that Ichigo was reluctant to be the substitute, or that he did deal with other Hollows before Orihime's brother. Volume 2's summary says the hollow at the boy/parakeet, but it didn't. Chad, even not being able to see it, was able to protect the parakeet. Ichigo didn't help Kon defeat a hollow, he saved Kon (Kon had no powers like that, he was just getting it away from the kids). "Ichigo learns that Soul Society attempted to kill him and is captured by Kisuke Urahara" is confusing and implies that Ichigo was captured, not the soul. And its missing at least some explanation of why they tried to kill Kon. The summaries all seem perhaps too short for 200 page volumes that often have a lot happening in them. If size is an issue, it might be good to look at splitting the list (particularly since it is an on-going series that already has 36 volumes, with I'd expect another 4 coming at the minimum just from the current list of uncollected chapters. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 15:03, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

The things you mentioned were fixed. For some reason Shueisha waits a lot to release a volume from Bleach although there are several chapters uncollected. The problem of some volumes is that they focus a lot in fights (especially vols 28+), making little plot development. A split could be good, but it would be better to wait more volumes since size is not a issue for now.Tintor2 (talk) 15:19, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment Probably will not support or oppose, as I was the copy-editor, so my ability to make neutral judgements is severely impaired here. Note that my edits addressed language and flow only, I cannot confirm whether they changed the content or not. Perhaps ask User:Sephiroth BCR about it. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:07, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Nominator has withdrawn the nomination [7]. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:42, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 17:47, 13 January 2009 [8].

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List of Nashville Sounds no-hitters

I am nominating this list because I believe it meets all FL criteria. It appears well-written and provides full coverage of the subject. -NatureBoyMD (talk) 00:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Note: Table only has six items; although the lead is quite substantial considering. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

CommentQuick-Fail - like Dabomb said, the table is too short because it is not listing enough information. FLC's must have at least 10 items, excluding vacancies; exceptions to this are lists that present substantial information in the tables. This, I'm afraid, isn't one of them, however, the lead is well written. --Truco 19:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Speedy fail Sorry, the list does not have enough items.—Chris! _ct 20:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Length is not an excuse for featureability. Either it should have a chance to become featured or it should be merged (I'd point it to Nashville Sounds team records). Reywas92^Talk 04:38, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Actually it does because this list isn't saying much, now if it were about a list on historic landmarks, that would be different because other notes and columns are added, but here only statistics are listed. I'd also point to a merge to Nashville Sounds team records.--Truco 21:56, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Rambo's Revenge 14:19, 11 January 2009 [9].

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List of Presidents of India

User:La Pianista and I have been working on this article in early December last year, but the nomination was delayed because of the holidays. Anyway, I believe it meets the criteria now and is ready for nomination. Chamal ^talk 09:30, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I happily co-nom (though a bit late). :) —La Pianista ^(T•C) 16:13, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to withdraw this nom, since neither of us have the necessary time right now to improve the article. I have discussed this with La Pianista, and we agreed that the best thing to do would be to withdraw the nom. Thanks for the suggestions from everyone, we will work on them when we can. Or at least, someone else will. Chamal ^talk 14:03, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

• Images: Most of the images are under fair use rational and one nominated for deletion. Also, the ones with fair use rational do not seem to be in good shape. Various columns of fair use rational are not correctly filled up. Textual content seems to be good with thorough research done. --GPPande 12:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
• Comment: Changed Patil image. The fair use of other images is invalid. There are images of even the deceased Presidents available, some even on Flickr. OTRS system can be used. --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 14:18, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
  • Thanks. I'll see if I can find some. Chamal ^talk 14:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

• Support Well-referenced and informative. Reywas92^Talk 21:43, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

Copyedit

1. he/she --> The president. (gender neutral without slash)
   • {{done}}
2. The post of President is known as Rashtrapati --> That would be in Hindi, not English
   • {{done}}
3. The President is elected by an electoral college of members of the parliament houses, Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha. Members of the Vidhan Sabha, the state legislative assemblies, are also involved in the election of the President. -- Choppy sentences. Needs to be combined as all three departments vote.
   • {{done}}
4. being representatives of the Indian National Congress. Presidents do not represent their parties
   • {{done}}
5. who died before his term of office was ended. --> Simplify: who died in office
   • {{done}}
6. Suggest you get it copyedited from a third person

Context

1. Prasad was the first President of independent India. --> India was independent in 1947. Somewhere you need to mention that the post of President came about in 1950 after India became a republic
   • {{done}}
2. Mention what act of the constitution sets the term of the president
   • {{done}}
3. Who appoints an acting president. Convert the text to active voice
   • I added this in the article as vice president assuming office. Was it something else you meant?
4. He is a recipient of the Bharat Ratna --> change tense
   • {{done}}
5. A timeline is needed. See List of Chief Ministers of Tamil Nadu
   • {{done}}
6. use a separate background colour for acting presidents
   • {{done}}
7. Any reason why there were two acting presidents in succession?
   • {{done}}

Manual of style

1. President of India in the lead needs to be bold
   • {{done}}
2. In the references, .html and .asp are not needed. It only applies to PDF, DOC and so on
   • {{done}}
3. Golden Army of Angels --> wikify not done It seems that Wikipedia doesn't have any information about this order. Should this be removed from the article?
   • {{done}}
4. Defense --> Use Indian English spellings
   • {{done}}
5. Use past tense for former presidents
   • {{done}}

Copyrights

1. Images have suspect licences. Indian government images are NOT in Public Domain

=Nichalp «Talk»= 08:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I have completed some, working on the others. Will try to find free images, if there aren't any, accurate fair use rationales will be provided. Chamal ^talk 09:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Golden Army of Angels --> red links are perfectly fine. It would encourage someone to create an article. =Nichalp «Talk»= 11:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Comments:
  • Lead section says: "Following Hussain's death, two acting presidents held office until the new president, Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed, was elected." - Next president was V V Giri himself who completed a five-year term.
    • {{done}}
  • In this context, it should be mentioned with ref that (something like this) if Vice-President is not available, Chief Justice of Supreme Court becomes acting President, as guided in Indian Constitution.
    • {{done}} (I did not find this in the constitution. Article 70 mentions that parliament may decide in exceptional conditions. I have added this Chamal ^talk 01:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC))
  • The two presidents who died in office, some info on how they died who would be good (in the last column of the table). - Not needed, they seems to have died natural deaths.--GDibyendu (talk) 09:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
  • N S Reddy row of the table says he was 9th President in last column, 6th in 1st column.
    • {{done}}
  • R Venkataraman row: he was jailed for participating in India's independence movement.
    • {{done}}
  • K R Narayanan row: he was chancellor of several universities. -> 'Vice-Chancellor' (of JNU). Wikipage on him does not give info on which other universities he was VC of.
    • {{done}} (He was a chancellor of several universities, as the ref shows. Have added VC info as well Chamal ^talk 01:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC))
      • The reason I pointing it out is that Vice-President, President and Governors of different states become Chancellor of universities by their position. For example, Chancellor of Delhi University is always Vice-President of India. Anyway, current info is referenced. BTW, 'chancellor in universities' should be 'chancellor of universities'.--GDibyendu (talk) 09:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

--GDibyendu (talk) 16:38, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

• "The President also holds the position of the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces of India."-->The President is the Commander-in-chief of the armed forces of India.
  • {{done}}
• "Although the president is vested such powers by the constitution of India, it"—"it"-->the position.
  • {{done}}
• "that literally means "lord of the realm". " "literally" is implied unless suggested otherwise.
  • {{done}}
• "There have been twelve Presidents of India"—"twelve"-->12.
  • {{done}}
• "since the introduction of the post following"—"following"-->after.
  • {{done}}
• "She was also the first woman to serve as President of India." "was"-->is.
  • {{done}}
• What do the colors indicate in the table? A key is needed. {{done}}
  • Could you organize this a little better, a la List of Governors of Alabama? Dabomb87 (talk) 21:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
    • {{done}}
• All items in sortable columns should be linked.
  • {{done}}
• Please resolve the image issues; for fair use images, strive for minimal usage. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:24, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• I believe Chamal is currently working on the last one. I've attempted to fix the other ones. —La Pianista ^(T•C) 21:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

• Items colored light brown to indicate acting president needs a symbol, such as * # ‡ † Dabomb87 (talk) 02:22, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
  • {{done}}

Sources

• I notice that you use Encyclopædia Britannica as a source. Generally, we should not be using other tertiary sources to source Wikipedia, a tertiary source in itself.
  • {{done}}
• Newspaper publications should be in italics, change "publisher" to work, see this sample edit. {{Done}}, if I understand correctly. —La Pianista ^(T•C) 21:35, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
  • You italicized everything here, I only meant the newspapers and magazines. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Oops, sorry. Hopefully fixed now. :) —La Pianista ^(T•C) 21:52, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
• No leading 0s in dates, see this sample edit.
  • {{done}}

Dabomb87 (talk) 20:24, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose from Kensplanet

• What makes REF18 (http://www.whereincity.com/india/great-indians/presidents/neelam-sanjiva-reddy.php) reliable?
  • {{done}} Nothing. There were a few references like that, but I must have missed this one when I replaced the others. I've put a better ref in place now.
• Can you find some better References for A.P.J. Abdul Kalam and Ramaswamy Venkataraman. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/625441/Ramaswamy-Venkataraman and http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/861164/A-P-J-Abdul-Kalam are not good sources. The Presidents of India are well documented. Please consider some better sources. Check Google Books.
  • {{done}} New refs added.
• Unless copyright status of all the Images are cleared, I oppose. Kensplanet^T_C 07:23, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I'll work on the images ASAP, probably during the weekend when I get more time, or earlier if I can manage. Chamal ^talk 13:28, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
    • Do ping me on my Talk once Image issues have been resolved. I'll surely reconsider my decision. Kensplanet^T_C 06:46, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
• The Lead looks very dry without an Image. Consider adding an Image like the President's residence or something. Kensplanet^T_C 06:46, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Image comments

• President #2 is not a free image (see [10])
• Same with President #3.
• Was this image really taken by that user? It seems rather old for that...
• (you cropped your President #3^1/3and #4 image from that)
• See if you can find President #6's image on Google Images...if you can't, than the description might be right.
• Need a non-free use rationale for President #7.
• Also need a NFRR for Prez #10.
• Hope that this helps you guys get it to FL. :) Cheers! —Ed 17 ^{(Talk / Contribs)} 21:29, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
  • I will work on the images during the weekend. I have very limited time now, and will try to clear up the other issues until then. Chamal ^talk 12:07, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Comment by Sarvagnya

• indiafacts.headlinesindia.com does not seem to meet WP:RS standards.
  • {{done}} Replaced with the constitution.
• B D Jatti was not CM of Jamkhandi. Jamkhandi was his constituency. He was CM of 'Mysore' where "Mysore" should be linked to Karnataka.
  • {{done}}
• The colour coding to denote party affiliations is alright, but correct me if I'm wrong.. I feel it should be clarified that the Office of the President is not associated with a given party, regardless of the incumbent's prior affiliations.
  • {{done}} This is already mentioned just above the table. Chamal ^talk 02:41, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Sarvagnya 22:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Review 2

1. Six of these were representatives of the Indian National Congress. The Janata Party has produced one president, Neelam Sanjiva Reddy. I'm not happy with this statement. I would suggest a rewrite on these lines "...were active party members of..."
   • {{done}}
2. It would be a worth note to mention that candidates affiliated to the ruling political party at the centre are likely to become President.

• Prose and redundancies:

1. is largely a ceremonial role
   • {{done}}
2. exercised by the Cabinet Ministers and Prime Minister. --> convert to active voice
3. since the introduction of the post. The post was established in 1950 --> check the flow. Include 1950 in the first sentence.
   • {{done}}
4. when he resigned --> confusing wording. Mention the name of the person in the sentence for clarity
   • {{done}}
5. via -- colloquial
   • {{done}}
6. indicate the following. A colon is needed to indicate an incomplete sentence
   • {{done}}
7. You can also mention that since 1977, all presidents have assumed office on 25 July.
8. was also a chancellor
9. Early on, Venkataraman
10. British due to his involvement --> "for his"
    • {{done}}
11. India’s Provisional Parliament --> This is something new for me. Link?
    • Ref is already there at end of sentence.
12. first Sikh to become President of India. --> Trivia not needed. We do not have a similar entry for first the Muslim and Christian to be President
    • {{done}}
13. ...State of Mysore... Link to State of Mysore instead of Karnataka
    • {{done}}
14. Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed served as a Minister --> What portfolio?
15. remains the only person --> is the only person
    • {{done}}
16. Bharat Ratna award --> Bharat Ratna
    • {{done}}
17. 'in order to
    • {{done}}
18. Would like to see a cite for "lord of the realm"
19. You need not sort the portrait and notes column. Also check and see if the dates sort correctly. You might need to use a sort key
20. You can also add an "age at assuming office" column
21. You can also add a "% of support" column if the data is available.
    • For the age and support percentage, I'm not sure if there will be information for all presidents. Finding important details about them on reliable sources was surprisingly hard (I'd have thought that Indian presidents would be covered deeply in media), and I don't think there will be many good sources for this info. I'll see if I can find any. Chamal ^talk 12:22, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

=Nichalp «Talk»= 15:19, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually I references are pretty much available http://presidentofindia.nic.in has the birthdays of the most presidents, and % victory is available here: http://pib.nic.in/archieve/pelection2007.pdf (You might have to scavenge for the 1997, 2002 & 2007 results though). Limit searching to the .gov.in and .nic.in domains on Google. =Nichalp «Talk»= 17:07, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Speedily closed per nominator withdrawal [11]. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 14:16, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 23:10, 10 January 2009 [12].

---

Billy Ray Cyrus discography

I think that this page is worthy enough of being a FL. It's completely sourced, everything runs and flows well together. The page is always being monitored by myself and others. Absolutely everything looks great! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 04:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Comment "This following is detailed discography for the American country music artist Billy Ray Cyrus." We don't start lists like this anymore. Look at recently promoted discographies for ideas. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Better? EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 04:24, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:47, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Strong Oppose - many problems with the prose, table, and references that fail WP:WIAFL

• Billy Ray Cyrus is an American country music artist, who has released 10 studio albums, with an eleventh due for an expected release in 2009. **1)link to the music genre?
  • • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• The album produced the hit single "Achy Breaky Heart" which reached #1 on the Billboard Hot Country Songs chart and #4 on the Billboard Hot 100.
  • 1)Comma before which
    • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• However, Trail of Tears failed to produce any top 40 hits.
  • 1)In this context, the however should come after Trail of Tears
    • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• 2003's Time Flies was issued on Madacy Records and followed, that same year, by The Other Side on Word Records.
  • 1)When did he sign to these records?
• In 2006, Cyrus signed with Walt Disney Records which issued the album Home at Last in 2007.
  • 1)Comma before which
    • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• Cyrus' highest charting album since It Won't Be the Last, it produced the single "Ready, Set, Don't Go", a duet with daughter Miley.'
  • 1)No need for the it before produced

Comment Are you sure? It doesn't sound right if it's not there. EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

• This was his first Top 5 hit in nearly a decade.
  • 1)Why is top capitalized, and the others aren't? Consistency is needed.
  • 2)In addition, when top 40s and top 5 are mentioned, what chart is it referring to?
    • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• The last two paragraphs in the lead can be merged into one.
  • • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• Billboard in the prose needs to be italicized and linked on the first occurrence
  • • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• Canadian chart positions are unknown from November 2000 to June 2004
  • Why are they unknown? A footnote should be given as to why, because this leaves the reader in question.
    • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 02:36, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Notes like this and ->Pop 100 chart did not exist until February 2005. need to be in a footnotes section, not in the table itself, only the "-" denotes...etc. should be in the table, the others should be in footnotes.
    • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• Some of the notes need to be verified with a source.

Comment Which ones? EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

• So there were no directors for the entries that are blank in the directors table?
• This list of songs or music-related items is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
  • Now this puzzles me, if its incomplete, then the list is inaccurate, either remove the section, or attempt to complete the table.
    • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 17:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
• The references need to be converted using {{cite web}} templates.--SRX 15:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

The ones without replies, are they completed?--SRX 01:09, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

There's only two. "When did he sign to these records?" for Time Flies and The Other Side. That one I didn't change because I don't the answer to that one. And with the Canadian charts, because I must've skipped that one. EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 02:33, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

How about adding transitions to the sentences, like "after signing with ___ records, Cyrus released..." or "He released ... after signing with .. records"SRX 03:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 15:27, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Further comments

• The album produced the #1 single "Achy Breaky Heart", as well three additional top 40 hits on the Billboard Hot Country Singles & Tracks (now Hot Country Songs). - need to add a as before three
  • • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 23:18, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
• Both album, The Best of Billy Ray Cyrus: Cover to Cover and Shot Full of Love, together only produced two top 40 singles. - both album?
  • • Done! Fix to "albums" EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 23:19, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
• Cyrus left Mercury in 1999 and quickly signed with Monument Records, who released Southern Rain in 2000. - 1)remove the quickly 2)who-->which
  • • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 23:20, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
• He then signed with Madacy Records, and released Time Flies in 2003. - no need for the comma
• When the single didn't do well on the chart, he left the label and quickly signed with Word/Curb/Warner Bros. to released The Other Side, also in 2003. - how about When the single didn't rank well on the chart, he left the label later that year and signed with Word/Curb/Warner Bros. to release The Other Side.
  • • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk)
• Cyrus' highest charting album since It Won't Be the Last, it produced the single "Ready, Set, Don't Go", a duet with daughter Miley. - how about adding As to the beginning of the sentence?--SRX 19:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
  • • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 23:23, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Weak Support - there were many problems at first, but now it meets WP:WIAFL, although a peer review could have done good here.--SRX 00:28, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Oppose Good start, but I have a few problems and suggestions:

• "4× Multi-Platinum" is redundant. 4x is Multi. Should be 4x Platinum.
  • Comment See note by TenPoundHammer. EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
• The small font for the Album details is unneccessary. The irony with using small font with bullet points is that it doesn't actually save any vertical space at all, it just makes it more difficult to read. I'd recommend taking a look at pretty much every other FL discog, as I think none of them use small font for anythibg but the catalog numbers.
  • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
• In "RIAA (US):", I don't think it's neccesary to mentioned RIAA. We don't qualify US in the chart positions with "Billboard (US)", so there's no need here. Just likk US to RIAA, and if the reader wants to know more they can click through. Same thing with CRIA.
  • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
• "Canadian chart positions are unknown from November 2000 to June 2004" bothers me quite a bit. What that seems to me to say is that you just couldn't find that info. It obviously exists, so it's just a matter of finding it. And without finding it, the list is not complete.
  • Comment Nope, Canadian chart positions cannot be found because RPM (magazine) closed in November 2000, and so they can't be found anywhere. EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

He's right, there is no source to verify the CAN chart positions between November 2000 (when RPM closed) and June 2004 (when the Canadian R&R Country chart was first published). This wasn't a hindrance in Diamond Rio discography.

I see; I did not know that... Well, I won't hold that against the article for now, though it would be nice if there were some reliable source telling us this rather than something we are assuming. Is there any such source you could direct me to? Drewcifer (talk) 19:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Best I can tell you is that RPM went under in November 2000 and R&R started its Canadian country chart in June 2004. Ask Eric444 or Caldorwards4, they might know. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 21:00, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• A bunch of the music videos are missing directors.
  • 'Comment Haven't been able to find them. And theirs only 9 that don't have one. EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Also not a hindrance. We don't know who directed the "Working Man's Blues" video that Diamond Rio did as Jed Zeppelin. "Unknown" might be a good filler here. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 17:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I've been away from FLC for a few months, and I surely would've brought this up with the Diamond Rio FLC if I was around, but I find it hard to believe that we're okay with incomplete lists. By "unkown" what are we saying? That the information isn't available? Of course the information is available, and if you can't find it then you aren't looking in the right places. Someone directed the music video, so saying "We can't find it" just doesn't cut it for me. And the argument that the Diamond Rio discog has one missing is pretty irrelevant as well, per WP:OSE. Drewcifer (talk) 19:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The information isn't available online at least. CMT is a good source, but even they are missing some director credits, and there doesn't seem to be any other source for them. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 21:00, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Research does not begin and end online. If it can't be found online, look elsewhere. Information being difficult to find doesn't mean it shouldn't be included. Drewcifer (talk) 01:59, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

And where else would they be found? I've checked sources like Country Weekly and other music magazines. Country music is not very well covered in print sources, and video directors are especially hard to find. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 16:06, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• The citations need to be formatted using citation templates.

• Agreed. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 17:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

• MVDbase is not considered a reliable source. Needs to be replaced.
  • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
• Some external links would be good.
• Some general references would also help.
• The certifications in the video section are formmatted differently than the other certification columns throughout the list.
• The first table featuring certifications should include a link to Music recording sales certification and List of music recording sales certifications. Take a look at Nine Inch Nails discography for an example. 02:28, 2 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drewcifer3000 (talk • contribs)
  • Done! EnDaLeCoMpLeX (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Note: RIAA uses "(foo) × Multi-Platinum" so I think that's appropriate. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 15:29, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Huh, good point. Well, it's still redundant, but I guess if the source is redundant is okay. Drewcifer (talk) 19:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

• Comment The album appearences still need sources, and the citations need to beformatted with {{cite web}} Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 19:28, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Oppose I haven't looked at the prose or tables yet, but the lead needs inline citations, which whould be formatted with URLs, page titles, publishers (with publisher dates as necessary) and last access dates. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 23:10, 10 January 2009 [13].

---

Paulini Curuenavuli discography

Self-nomination I have significantly contributed to the list and believe it meets all attributes of the featured list criteria. The discography follows the same format as my previous discographies for past Australian Idol contestants, Ricki-Lee Coulter discography and Joel Turner discography. Please note that Paulini Curuenavuli has only charted in Australia, except for her debut single, "Angel Eyes" which also charted in New Zealand. I'm willing to address all concerns and will check this candidacy several times a day. Thanks! Hpfan9374 (talk) 14:12, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Note to closing editor - I have addressing all but one of Cannibaloki and Udonknome's concerns. I have addressed half of this concern by referencing the directors of her music videos, "Rough Day" and "So Over You". I am currently addressing the remaining half of this concern; I have phoned Sony BMG however they have stated that she is an inactive artist on their label, and cannot help me with the concern. I have since phoned her new management, Revolutions Per Minute, who have informed me that they did not release her earlier material ("Rough Day" and "So Over You"), however they are currently contacting Paulini directly, asking her the directors names. Once these names are received, I will then be able to access the director's website or retrieve the director's resume/filmography, to reference them with reliable sources. Thanks! Hpfan9374 (talk) 04:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Resolved comments from SRX

Comments

• The release was a commercial success with platinum certification by the ARIA and produced two top thirty singles, including a number-one single "Angel Eyes".-1)Either place a comma between success and with and by ARIA and and or just between ARIA and and 2)ARIA needs to be spelled out per WP:ACRONYM.

I've added both the commas.

• The release was a minor success, peaking at #70 on the ARIA Charts-how about it earned or received minor success because was makes it sound like WP:POV

Thanks, I've changed it to received.

• The release failed to achieve the commercial success of its predecessor, peaking at #72.-#72 on which chart?

It peaked at #72 on the only previously mentioned chart in the lead, the ARIA charts. I'll add it if you want, but I am pretty sure it is assumed.

• Later that year, she co-founded girl group Young Divas and, with them, released their commercially successful eponymous debut album, in 2006 and their second cover album, New Attitude, in 2007.-1)the comma needs to be placed before and 2)The comma needs to go after 2006 not after album 3)Comma before the and near 2006. 4)Its too many commas in this sentence, I recommend splitting it.

I've added the commas, and split the sentence.

• Director name for these music videos has not been found in reliable sources. - how about The director's name for this music video has not been found in reliable sources. because they will be redirected here individually and not by pluralized refs.

Very true, changed.

• The song was selected as the anthem of World Youth Day 2008. - This not The

I have correct it, as per your request.

--SRX 01:06, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I feel I have made the necessary changes. Thankyou very much for your comments you have once again expanded both the article and my knowledge for future reference. Hpfan9374 (talk) 01:35, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

• Support - comments resolved to meet WP:WIAFL.--SRX 16:09, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Thankyou very much for your support SRX. I greatly appreciated your comments and assistance; they will help me expand as a wikipedian. Thanks! Hpfan9374 (talk) 22:50, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Your welcome :) SRX 03:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Strong Weak oppose

• "one extended play (EP)"

I don't understand, what's wrong? ... Are you talking about the lead:

Paulini Curuenavuli, commonly known as Paulini is an Australian, multi-platinum pop singer-songwriter. She has released two studio albums, one extended play and five singles, in addition to five music videos.

Do you want me to change "one extended play" to "one extended play (EP)"?

+ (EP) → She has released two studio albums, one extended play (EP) and five singles, in addition to five music videos.

Changed, as per your request.

• Merge the second para with the first.

Sure.

• "Curuenavuli came to prominence, after placing fourth on the first season of Australian Idol in 2003."

I've added the comma.

• "The release also produced produced"

Whoops. I've deleted the second repeated word.

• As of August 2008 (?) That I known, we are in December, right?

The source from the Herald Sun, entitled Then there were two Young Divas was posted in August 2008, not December.

• • In short, the lead is a copy of Ricki-Lee Coulter discography. (similar style)

Yes, it is a similiar style, as they are both Australian singers, previous Australian Idol contestants and former members of the Young Divas. I wrote the lead of Ricki-Lee Coulter discography anyway.

Okay, I think that helped quite manipulating the words, is no longer seemed so.

Great.

• Peak chart positions? You have just one.

Okay, I've changed it to "Peak chart position" under studio albums and extended plays subheadings.

• ARIA certification (sales thresholds)

The sales thresholds are important, to determine the number of copies shipped.

• Delink all dates.

Fixed.

• Dates in the international format (dd-mm-yyyy).

Fixed.

• You have two music videos without the name of director and their respective reference.
  • The director's name for this music video has not been found in reliable sources. (For me, this means that his discography is incomplete and therefore can not be promoted to FL status.)

This is the case in Paul Kelly discography.

Bad case.

Okay then.

• MVDBase isn't a reliable source!

MVDBase is used in a whopping 91 articles and their mostly discography articles, alot of which are featured lists. Please suggest an alternative? Can I use the liner notes from the singles?

Can I use the liner notes from the singles? → of course, use {{Cite album-notes}}

Should I use {{Cite album-notes}} or {{Cite music release notes}}?

I have retrieved the singles' liner notes, however the music video directors' names were not stated. I have referenced the the director of her music videos, "Rough Day" and "So Over You" with Jonathan and Josh Baker's official filmography site. I have since phoned Sony BMG, however they have stated that she is an inactive artist on their label, and cannot they help me with the concern. I have since phoned her new management, Revolutions Per Minute, who have informed me that they did not release her earlier material ("Rough Day" and "So Over You"), however they are currently contacting Paulini directly, asking her the directors names. Once these names are received, I will then be able to access the director's website or retrieve the director's resume/filmography, to reference them with reliable sources. Thankyou for your patience and co-operation in this matter. Hpfan9374 (talk) 05:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• Don't have an external link?

No, it is not part of the featured list criteria. You supported my previous list, Ricki-Lee Coulter discography, without external links?

It's only a question. Cannibaloki 18:43, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

She doesn't, her official site is "closed", I don't really want to link to her social networking site, as I don't feel that would be appropriate and the only other site related to her is paulini.info and that's a mere fansite.

• I think is almost a quick-fail, and hardly my opinion will change. Cannibaloki 05:39, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I feel I have made the necessary changes and addressed your concerns. Thankyou very much for your comments. I await your response to continue fixing the list's faults. Hpfan9374 (talk) 08:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Comments by Udonknome (talk · contribs)

• Lead – Various issues:

• "Paulini Curuenavuli, commonly known as Paulini is an..." – The rest of the discography refers to her as "Curuenavuli". I suggest you stick to the last name and remove the part in italics, or otherwise, stick to the first name.

She uses "Paulini" for her recordings, so I'll rather stick to the first name and keep the commonly known as Paulini is an..."

• "an Australian, multi-platinum pop singer-songwriter." – The wikilink of two or more words/phrases next to each other is not recommended per MOS:LINK. As well, "multi-platinum" is unnecessary. Change to the wording to something like "is an Australian pop singer and songwriter".

Changed to "is an Australian pop singer and songwriter", as per your request.

• "Curuenavuli came to prominence, after placing fourth" – Remove that she came to prominence, as this is regionally bias. She is hardly known outside of Australia, and she doesn't seem to be that popular either in her home country, as seen from the charts. Also, I doubt that the fact that she came fourth is notable in a discography article.

I've removed this sentence, as per your request.

• "The release was a commercial success" – More POV. Let the numbers and statistics peak for themselves.

I've removed this sentence, as per your request, stating the statistics in the lead.

• "including a number-one single" – Unnecessary link, as it doesn't had nothing to the context of the discography. You may want to read WP:OVERLINK, as this practice seems to be common throughout the lead.

Thanks for the link to WP:OVERLINK, I've had a read of it and removed the link to the List of number-one singles in Australia in 2004.

• "The release received minor success," – Same as per above, minor or major success is highly subjective. I am sure there are lots of musicians that would love to have their music peak in a national music chart.

Indeed, I bet there as having a single peak in a national music chart means notability and warrants the artist an article.

• Replace #70 with "number seventy". As well, the EP peaked at number seventy on the Australian Top 100 Albums Chart and not on the non-existent "ARIA Chart".

Replaced #70 with "number seventy", as per your request.

• "The release also produced produced two top fifty singles" – An album doesn't produce singles. In addition, top fifty where?

Indeed, I have "fixed" the wording in the lead.

• The word "release" and its variants are mentioned in six sentences in a row. Avoid such repetitions.

Sorry about that. I've cut it down to three sentences in the entire lead. Hope thats okay.

• At the end, the lead mentions her work with a music group, yet this is nowhere reflected in the rest of the article. Keeping in mind that the lead should summarize the content of an article and that this is the Paulini Curuenavuli discography (and not the Young Divas discography), I suggest you remove this.

Alright. I'll attempt to achieve featured list-status for Young Divas discography later.

• Is she signed to any record label? The lead should definitely mention this

I've included it in the first paragraph, the same place it is in several other featured discographies.

• Overall, the lead is stubby and is not engaging, as required by #2 of the FL criteria.

Sorry about that too. I've rearranged the entire wording in the lead and hopefully it now satisfies #2 of the FL criteria.

• In the album's tables, there is no point in having a column heading "Peak chart position" when underneath there is only an Australia column. It would be like having a column named "Certification" with underneath only "ARIA certifications"

I've changed it to "AUS chart peak" instead of having a column heading "Peak chart position" when underneath there is only an Australia column, as per your request.

• As Cannibaloki said, "ARIA certifications (sales thresholds)". There is no point in linking to a list of music certifications by country, when there are only certifications from one country in the whole discography

Very well. I have removed "(sales thresholds)", as per your request.

• In the extended plays section, why are 2 references necessary for one chart position? Same for the New Zealand singles chart column.

Two references were not necessary to reference one chart position in the extended plays section, and so I have removed one redundant reference. However, two references are required (surprisingly), for the New Zealand singles chart column, to reference that the Australian Idol single "Rise Up" did not chart, as this is just as important as referencing a charting single. The other reference in the New Zealand singles chart column is to reference her debut single, "Angel Eyes".

• In the music video table, change the heading "Song" to "Title".

Replaced "Song" to "Title", as per your request.

• In the music video table, remove "Unknown" along the note. It's just ridiculous. MVDbase is not considered a reliable source either. Overall, only one out of the five alleged videos are backed up by reliable sources.

Removed "Unknown" along the note. MVDBase is used in a whopping 91 articles and their mostly discography articles, alot of which are featured lists. Please suggest an alternative? Can I use the liner notes from the singles?

Should I use {{Cite album-notes}} or {{Cite music release notes}}?

I have retrieved the singles' liner notes, however the music video directors' names were not stated. I have referenced the the director of her music videos, "Rough Day" and "So Over You" with Jonathan and Josh Baker's official filmography site. I have since phoned Sony BMG, however they have stated that she is an inactive artist on their label, and cannot they help me with the concern. I have since phoned her new management, Revolutions Per Minute, who have informed me that they did not release her earlier material ("Rough Day" and "So Over You"), however they are currently contacting Paulini directly, asking her the directors names. Once these names are received, I will then be able to access the director's website or retrieve the director's resume/filmography, to reference them with reliable sources. Thankyou for your patience and co-operation in this matter. Hpfan9374 (talk) 05:00, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

• The note indicating that "Receive the Power" "was selected as the anthem of World Youth Day 2008" is not relevant to a discography. Such information should be covered in the song's article, if it isn't already.

Removed the note indicating that "Receive the Power" "was selected as the anthem of World Youth Day 2008", as per your request. This information is covered in the song's article. Thanks for your help in clearing this up.

• Correct the number of "other appearances" in the Infobox.

Replaced the number "1" to "2" in the "other appearances" section of the Infobox.

There are more issues and ways for improvement for this discography, so I'll have to oppose this now. Do U(knome)? ^yes..._{or no} 03:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I feel I have made the necessary changes and addressed your concerns. Thankyou very much for your comments. I await your response to continue fixing the list's faults. Thanks again Hpfan9374 (talk) 11:50, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by User:Matthewedwards 05:18, 4 January 2009 [14].

---

Super 14 champions

previous FLC

I believe this is a solid list and is well formated. Last time, most said no this becoming featured on the basis that only one season had been played and thus, couldn't be a 'list'. I now believe that this arguement can not be used against the list and that it will successfully become featured.--Hamedog_Talk|^@ 17:22, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Quick-Fail Lead has no references, neither does the table. If you don't want to add an inline citation to every item in the table, please add a general reference. All web references should have a title, URL, publisher and last access date. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:26, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Changed to quick-fail per given issues, although I am willing to rescind if major cleanup is carried out in the next day or so. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:14, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Quick-Fail

• Super 14 champions is the title given to the winner of the rugby union tournament, the Super 14. - wouldn't the appropriate title be "Super 14 champion"

No, the media refers to the winners as the champions, not champion (probably because of there being 28 odd members in a team)

• This list should be renamed to List of Super 14 champions

Please see Tri Nations Series champions or Super 12 champions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.232.205.12 (talk) 20:52, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

• No in-line citations

more now

• The tournament was known as the Super 12 from 1996 to 2005, but has expanded to included the Western Force, from Perth, Western Australia and the Central Cheetahs, from Free State, South Africa. -1)Include not Included 2)comma before and

Serial comma's are not common in New Zealand English, which this is written in. Include has been fixed

• Each season, each team plays every other Super 14 team once, in a round-robin. - repetitive use of each, reword

Suggestion? Every season?

• The prose does not summarize the list in any way

New sentence, hopefully fixes issue.

• The 2 citations need to be formatted correctly, and 2 citations are not verifying the entire list, does not meet WP:WIAFL--SRX 16:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

New ciations. -- logged out User:Hamedog

• The name of the title should still be changed
• The lead does not summarize the list, my quick fail remains.--SRX 00:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Quick-fail

• Ref 5 is not a WP:reliable source, it's some families website "We are the Lassen family and we currently live in Palmerston North in New Zealand..."
• Ref 6 is an empty page
• Is ref 1 a reliable source?
• On the whole largely unreferenced
• Image probably doesn't meet WP:NFCC
• Why list is a "List of champions" listing the top four, this list essentially only has 3 items.
• "Total wins" tables should be sortable and in order of wins
• Conflicts with MOS - WP:DASH (ndashes needed), WP:COLOUR (need text labels)

Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in the bot processing the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{FLC}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Matthewedwards (talk • contribs • email) 05:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.