User talk:4throck

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June 2021

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, 4throck

Thank you for creating EIA 1956 resolution chart.

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Thanks for the article!

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 15:48, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Analog high-definition television system into 819 line. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 01:56, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

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Ways to improve Extended Graphics Array

Thank you for editing Extended Graphics Array.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Much of this page appears to have been copied from https://www.minitool.com/lib/1024-768.html, which does NOT appear to be a wikipedia mirror site. Please rewrite it so that it does not violate copyright

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Fiachra10003 (talk) 19:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

The Extended Graphics Array page was created by moving all this text from the 1024 × 768 (XGA) section on the Graphics_display_resolution#Extended_Graphics_Array . Having a separate article make it easier to stop the problems you mention. But I didn't copy the text from https://www.minitool.com/lib/1024-768.html, it was already part of the original Graphics display resolution article. Anyway, I'll try to improve it 4throck (talk) 18:12, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 16:04, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, 4throck. Thank you for your work on TK80. User:SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 11:52, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 06:08, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	AS-1000 is a very good page. Well done! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 04:53, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

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TI-99/4A infobox order

Hi! You swapped the order of the info boxes on the TI-99/4A page so they’re chronological. The downside is that the info box at the top of the page no longer matches the article title. It gives the appearance of a mistake. Worth reconsidering. Dgpop (talk) 00:43, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

The article starts with "The TI-99/4 and TI-99/4A are home computers..." so I think it makes sense for the infoboxes to follow the same order. Perhaps the problem here is the article title itself. Should the article be renamed to TI-99/4 ? 4throck (talk) 07:36, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

June 2023

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Intecolor/Compucolor 8001 character set into another page. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from [[page name]]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. – Isochrone (T) 17:39, 3 June 2023 (UTC)

photometric filter systems

I saw you've been adding approximate colors to various telescope photometric filter system pages. The page you linked to in your edits only takes a single wavelength, so I'm guessing you're using the mean wavelength of those filters. The effective color of a broad-band filter is much more than its mean wavelength, so I wonder if the colors you've put there are more misleading than you think? - Parejkoj (talk) 03:02, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I added the mean / peak wavelength color. I've seen this parameter for space probes (ex: Voyager 1 article). Here I followed the same reasoning, but perhaps I should have explained better that the colors represent "peak sensitivity", just like on the Voyager article. You do have a point that for broadband filters represented colors need to be calculated differently (again like on the Voyager article, where the spectrum is also shown). Do you have any suggestions on how to do it ? Do you think the Voyager article is ok in this regard ? 4throck (talk) 12:54, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 12:43, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 12:48, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 03:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Category:Explorer 5 has been nominated for deletion

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, 4throck. Thank you for your work on Intecolor/Compucolor 8001 character set. User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

IMO this article should be merged into a broader article. IMO the topic does not comply with wp:notability or wp:Not Sincerely,

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North8000 (talk) 21:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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Hello my friend! Good day to you. Thanks for creating the article, I have marked it as reviewed. Have a blessed day!

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 12:35, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

ZX Spectrum graphic modes - your opinion

I would certainly appreciate your opinion on the discussion [1]. It has dragged quite long by now. Most arguments have already been posted, I think. You are the only relevent expert there. The the other two editors are just some people, only partially interested in the topic. I think you are the only one who can resolve it now. Z80Spectrum (talk) 11:33, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

I meant, this particular post and what followed [2] Z80Spectrum (talk) 11:34, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, 4throck,

I would like to create enhanced-quality images for the "ZX Spectrum graphics" page. I have the original true-color image of the parrot, but that is insufficient.

What I really need is the parrot image together with the color gradients on the right, the same as the other parrot "screenshots" on the page.

Can you find me a link to the parrot image with the color gradients? Z80Spectrum (talk) 13:31, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Sure, here it is: https://images4.imagebam.com/ab/0d/90/MERD6DK_o.png

I created many of the images on the page using conversion tools like RetroX, Image2ULAPlus or BMP2SCR so they should be representative of the different modes. I don't know what could be improved about them, perhaps dithering ? 4throck (talk) 22:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

There are three things to improve about the images.

The most important issue is blur. PAL TVs were not sharp, they exhihited a high amount of blur. Any image that says it is a simulation of graphics output on PAL should include a significant amount of blur. Since 99% of ZX Spectrum graphics was essentialy made for PAL and displayed on PAL, the assumption that the display device is PAL should be automatic.

I wrote about how to apply the PAL blur effect here: [3]

The seccond issue is the color palette, which is currently the point of contention at DRN: [4]

If my side wins the case at DRN, then the appropriate palette and the instructions for applying it on current images can also be found at the first link that I have provided above.

The third issue is dithering. Most images in the article are using regular dithering, which is of inferior quality when compared to the irregular (error-diffusion) dithering. I haven't managed to write instructions for that before Chaheel Riens deleted my talk page topics [5].

Gimp can be used to apply error-diffusion dithering (athough it does it quite imperfectly). One of the problems is that error-diffusion dithering is hard to apply to ZX Spectrum images, it usually requires manual intervention. However, in some cases it is easy, for example when black-and-white images are in question.

To see an example of what an end result should look like, here is the end-result image: [6] Z80Spectrum (talk) 07:10, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Just to provide a more complex example, see this image: [7].

This image cannot be displayed by ZX Spectrum, because attribute grid rules have not been satisfied.

So, this could be an intermediate image that should be further edited in order to create ZX Spectrum's final image.

For each attribute block, two dominant colors need to be selected, and other colors removed, so that each cell contains only two colors. That will decrease the quality of the image. However, the image does not use the Spectrum's "bright" feature, it uses only 8 colors. Some quality can be gained back by using "bright" in some cells. At the final stage of editing, the pallette and blur need to be applied, as per my instructions in the previous post.

This image was created by Gimp, and it uses error-diffusion (Floyd-Steinberg) dithering. Error-diffusion dithering is what gives this image a very high quality, even with the extremely limited number of colors.

I don't want to go into further details, as I realize that this is a complex procedure, I just wanted to give an example how a high-quality ZX Spectrum image can be created. Z80Spectrum (talk) 19:12, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Simply use RetroX or BMP2SCR, they calculate attribute limitations and support many types of dithering. 4throck (talk) 19:59, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, yes and no.

I'm not requireing you to do any of this, I'm just writing so that you can better understand the issues, if you desire so.

I tried BMP2SCR, it doesnt work on my computer. Then I tried BMP2scr exp, and it is nice, with some limitations.

"support many types of dithering" - probably true, but do they support error-diffusion dithering?

"they calculate attribute limitations" - probably true, but, do they calculate them optimally, while at the same time supporting error-diffusion dithering?

The answers to my two objections are probably both NO. I concluded it by simply looking at the images in the "ZX Spectrum graphics mode" article - most of the images are heavily sub-optimal.

"ZX Spectrum graphics mode" article is currently displaying the images generated by RetroX, Image2ULAPlus or BMP2SCR. As such, it is displaying the limitations of those 3 applications, not the actual limitations of ZX Spectrum.

- Z80Spectrum (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Also, there are at least 30 algoritms in circulation for computing error-diffusion dithering. The biggest problem is that the computation of a numerical "color difference" is complicated, and the newest algorithms are still very new. See this: [8]

- Z80Spectrum (talk) 20:50, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

correction: 30 different algorithms in circulation for computing error-diffusion dithering Z80Spectrum (talk) 20:51, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I did an example conversion of parrot-and-gradient image. [9]. It is still incomplete, needs a lot of work. I just wanted to give an example of image quality achievable by error-diffusion dithering with manual interventions.

I can't add it to the page now due to DRN dispute, and also it is not finished. Feel free to improve it further if you have spare time. Z80Spectrum (talk) 21:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Please don't use my user page to discuss your work. I've added a comment on the image talk page: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:ZX-Spectrum--parrot-and-gradient-256x192.png 4throck (talk) 00:40, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

By the way, it appears that you were definitively very wrong about one thing. Apparently (perhaps even surprisingly), material cannot be easily removed from talk pages.

See the moderator's opinion at the DRN: [10] . Z80Spectrum (talk) 15:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I have noticed a small problem with your image(s). See this: [11] Z80Spectrum (talk) 21:32, 16 January 2024 (UTC)