Talk:Crimean Karaites

Genetics

Karaite women seem to have been mitochondrially haplotype H ie. European ancestry. Most probably from Fenno-Ugric ancestry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.27.30.118 (talk) 23:04, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

"The mtDNA haplogroup H is very commonly encountered among the peoples of Europe, though it is also found (in lesser frequencies) in the northern regions of the Middle East, the southern portions of the Caucasus region, and North Africa".-- Toddy1 (talk) 20:50, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Plural Karaims or Karaim?

This question is directed mainly for User:Toddy1. Thank you for the corrections to my recent edits in the article. It does look a bit inconsistent/confusing though. For consistency, as "Karaims" is the plural form published in the book titles you corrected here [1], shouldn't the whole article use the plural as published in the books? Or are there some cases where books on the same subject have used "Karaim" as a plural in their title? I am concerned because after your correction here [2] I used your comments as the basis to correct another article here [3] but following your subsequent correction here [4] I am wondering if I should not have done that? What is the correct wiki convention to follow for a topic if published nomenclature is inconsistent? 93.172.131.82 (talk) 07:39, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

A book or article title is what it is. We should not change it to something else. The items you queried were as follows:

1. Karaims and Tatars – 600 years in Lithuania
2. A. Malgin. Евреи или тюрки. Новые элементы в идентичности караимов и крымчаков в современном Крыму [Jews or Turks. New elements in the identity of the Karaites and Krypchaks in modern Crimea (2002)]
3. Zajączkowski, Ananiasz. Karaims in Poland: History, Language, Folklore, Science. Panistwowe Wydawn, 1961.
4. web site of Lithuanian Karaims

(1) That is the name of the web page.

(2) The web page's name is in Russian. The best thing to do is to give the title in the language of the webpage, and a clear English translation.

(3) That is the book's title on Amazon. There is a photo of the cover on Amazon...

(4) The website says "Lithuanian Karaims" on the front page.

-- Toddy1 (talk) 22:24, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

So I shouldn't be concerned then :) 93.172.131.82 (talk) 19:07, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

2002 Statistics

According to this edit [5] Toddy1 you say you are reverting "edits by User:Kaz's new sockpuppet"

Although I see in other places you seem to infer that I am a sockpuppet of Kaz, in this case I am not sure if you are refering to my contributions [6] or to the subsequent edit by User:Sabbatino here [7]

But what is very clear is that you do like my insertion of the 2002 statistics for Crimea. Thank you. But you don't like the updated 2002 statistics for the rest of the Ukraine. Do you think I have read this source [8] incorrectly? YuHuw (talk) 11:52, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Give it a rest Kazimir!

One interesting thing that comes out of this is the changed URL of the citation.

• Распределение населения по национальности и родному языку УКРАИНА Distribution of the population by nationality and mother tongue, Ukraine (Russian language version) gives the number of Karaites [Караимы] as 1196, of which 72 spoke the language of their nationality, 160 Ukrainian, 931 Russian, and 9 another language as their mother-tongue. The last version using the correct Russian language citation was the version by Неполканов at 21:24, 13 November 2012.
• About number and composition population of UKRAINE by data All-Ukrainian population census'2001 data (English language version) does not mention Karaite. The edit that introduced the incorrect English language citation was the version by Kepper66 at 09:12, 2 November 2012.

What seems to have happened was that the incorrect English citation was reinserted in the cleanup of edits by Special:Contributions/Kaz and his sock Special:Contributions/Budo.

The data are available for the Crimea in the 2001 census. The Crimea is split into two parts:

• Распределение населения по национальности и родному языку, Автономная Республика Крым (Distribution of the population by nationality and mother tongue, Autonomous Republic of the Crimea) 671 (of these the mother tongue was 52 Karaite, 5 Ukrainian, 587 Russian, and 4 other)
• Распределение населения по национальности и родному языку, Г.Севастополь (горсовет) (Distribution of the population by nationality and mother tongue, Sevastopol (city council)) 44 (of these the mother tongue was 2 Karaite, 1 Ukrainian, 40 Russian, and 0 other)

This meant that the number of Karaites in Ukraine according to the 2001 census was:

• 1196 (total)
• 715 in the Crimea (671 in the autonomous republic, and 44 in the city of Sevastopol)
• 481 in the rest of the country (1196-715)

The source Kazimir cites is [http://eajc.org/page34/news24063.html The Euro-Asian Jewish Congress article Karaites of Crimea: History and Present-Day Situation in Community, by Tatiana Schegoleva, 29 May 2011. This says:

"According to the last census of the population of Ukraine (2002), 671 Karaites live in Crimea (0.03% of the population of the autonomy), while a total of 834 Karaites live in Ukraine. According to some estimates, the Yevpatorian Karaite community consists of around 260 people. Approximately the same number of Karaites lives in Simferopol, around 100 live in Feodosia, around 50 in Sevastopol, 30 – in Yalta, and 50 – in Bakhchisaray."

I think that Miss/Mrs Schegoleva has made some errors in her article, such as the date of the census (2002 instead of 2001), and the total number of Karaites in Ukraine (834 instead of 1196). In addition, your interpretation is mistaken, as you did not know that Sevastopol City Council and the Autonomous Republic were counted separately.-- Toddy1 (talk) 13:00, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Please stop calling me Kazimir. Would you like it if someone posted everywhere on Wikipedia calling you by someone else's name? It is quite abusive. :(

Back to the statistics you partly removed and partly used, I see you are saying you like one part of the source but you don't like another part of the source, and if you like something then it is reliable but if you don't like something then that is unreliable. I see. Well I suppose there is no discussion on that then. Your Synthesis and Research approach to facts is very Original if not also a little like Butchery. YuHuw (talk) 13:18, 10 January 2016 (UTC)