User talk:Bishonen

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El C's chipmunks of the day are Rabbitty the rabbit's fan club. The chipmunks have been nominated for deletion. Discussion is here.

Geogre's harlot of the day.

MONGO's bird of the day is a Green Heron.

Today's featured kitten (and what remains of the bear it hunted!)

Requests for adminship and bureaucratship update No current discussions. Recent RfAs, recent RfBs: (successful, unsuccessful)

CSD AutoReason Updated

Attention spamlist! I've just updated CSD AutoReason to account for the new image deletion page. If you'd just hard refresh (Ctrl+F5 in most browsers), you'll get the new version and be on your way. ^demon^{[omg plz]} 17:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Things that are not surprising

I just created another humor page; this time, for things that shouldn't be that surprsing, such as the fact that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, or the fact that vandals get blocked. I'm looking for more entries, which is why I mention it to you. ^Thanks, _{Luc "Somethingorother" French} 20:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

LTNS

Actually anyone 'can' edit.. only arbitrators are 'supposed' to edit.. and as you see, I realized that and moved my comments :P MEH !

ltns.. and after reading a bit, i can see that I havent missed anything here at all.. what a bunch of nonsense.

Hugs. Peace.Lsi john 23:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Re WP:OFFICIOUS

Presumably the editors who spend their time coding these things on their user pages also could spend that time more productively editing? In the end, in a volunteer organization, we go nowhere by trying to tell people how to spend their time as long as they don't disrupt things. Personally, I don't remove various inappropriate content from user pages, but I will call it inappropriate when it is. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:47, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Do you see the various people giving their opinion in the matter and then moving on? Why you feel it important to keep repeating yours all over the place is a mystery to me. Bishonen | talk 07:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC).

Just to say thanks for what seems to be a splendid guideline, which when I think of it complements WP:DICK rather well. Anyway, enough trivia. Turns thoughts back to todo list. .. dave souza, talk 08:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Haha, thanks! I'm rather surprised that hasn't been speedied or MfD'd yet. I really created it in order to have a pompous-looking bluelink in this post — I wasn't expecting anybody to actually click on it. Bishonen | talk 15:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC).

Thank you

Hi, Bishonen. Nice to see you appear again in the TM article after many months -- good to know that you're keeping an eye on things (sort of a deus ex machina). Thanks so much for encouraging participants to avoid edit warring. I hope we can resolve this through discussion. TimidGuy 11:04, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi there, TG, long time! The edit summary popped up on my watchlist... yeah, I'm always curious about edits with that kind of summary. Bishonen | talk 15:33, 31 August 2007 (UTC).

TheFinalclub.org links

Have you seen followed the link to the annotations of the Shakespeare plays. Those annotations were done by a person with a PhD from Harvard's English department. The line-by-line Macbeth commentary is probably better than anything available free or in-print. Furthermore, links to for-profit sites such as Sparknotes and Cliff's Notes remain. I don't particularly understand your objection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrewmagliozzi (talk • contribs) 15:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I have. Many people have followed the link and commented on it on article talkpages and on your own talkpage. Please engage with what they say instead of spamming the same identical objection to them all. (And what makes you think they're not PhD's?) Stop adding the link or I'm going to have to block you. Please. P. S. It's important to always add your message at the foot of talkpages, not somewhere in the middle, as it's likely to be overlooked there. Bishonen | talk 16:07, 26 September 2007 (UTC).

Emigration

Hi Bishonen: and here I thought you'd written a companion article! If you should have any other projects you want a third party to skim, let me know. –Outriggr ♠ 23:35, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

• I see you have decided to FAC your page about people leaving Sweden [1]. I just hope it was the right thing to do - I mean, do you have the requisite number of footnotes? - and more importantly....how can I put this?...really I don't mean to to be unkind - but er.... is your English up to it? - you do have an unfortunate habit of splitting your infinitives, not that it matters to me, but Raul is a very busy person indeed (though not as busy as some) and may not have the time to correct lazy grammar etc. Are you sure it has met criteria "2b" or whatever it is called, not that I have ever read the criteria, but then I never split an infinitive or have the time to seriously read these dull criteria instructions. Giano 22:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

• The split infinitive criterion is a bugger, yeah. You have to accept we can't all have your facility, nor your baronesses. Bishonen | talk 23:01, 2 September 2007 (UTC).

Of course my own English is near perfect, in fact many people often remark on the standard of my English, my infinitives are a wonder to behold, if you would like me to lightly coypedit it, you only have to gently hint. Although of course I am a very busy person <sigh> I could, if I can find the time, try to quickly squeeze you in. Have you thought about an English night class? Giano 06:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Fascinating article! BTW, the only thing I would change is making images larger. There is enough text to accommodate larger images and make the necessary detail seen form within the article without having to click on images. But that's just my thought. I will send Irpen-bot handle this FAC as per 'Zilla's RfAdm precedent. :) --Irpen 07:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Wanna see what's in my bag?

I won't be messing with the emigration bag anymore. All done. It can be sewn shut with iron wire now. I find that that's a good way to keep out pests, like Thor. Utgard Loki 15:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It's just a ham sandwich, and it's past its prime! Don't look! Geogre 18:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It's pickled herring. The smell is the best part! Utgard Loki 13:40, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure. That's what the mortals always say: "The gods only eat the smoke of the barbecue, because that's the best part, and we're stuck eating the lousy meat." I'm not buying it. Food shouldn't cause stomach spasms. Geogre 00:17, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Speak

there's also another chip one pillar to the left of em, on top of bridge, sitting (happy!); oh, and on closer look, yet another one looking at him, sitting by bush below (also happy!)

Long time no! El_C 07:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Where speech? Bishonen | talk 07:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC).

Firebrand speech is coming. El_C 07:27, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Er... timid firebrand..? Bishonen | talk 07:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC).

A contradiction in terms, but yes! El_C 07:33, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Genre question

Hello. I'm leaving this on your talk and the article page, as I'm not sure where's best. The play definitely refers to conventions of Restoration comedy, but it's significance lies in being the first of the new genre of sentimental comedy. It is described as such in The Cambridge Guide to Theatre. Unless there's a better, more specific citation than that, I think that ought to define its genre. I've read this together with The Relapse, though I confess it was a while ago, and placing the two together makes the distinction clear. DionysosProteus 21:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Right, thanks for communicating. Well, I know of more specialized discussions than the Cambridge Guide, it's sort of my field. (I wrote the articles on The Relapse and Love's Last Shift.) I don't agree about the "sentimental comedy," but I don't exactly feel strongly about it, either. I'll see if I can find the time and, uh, momentum to fix up some nice citation for my opinion. In the meantime, please feel free to revert my revert right back, if you like. We should probably post any further discussion on the article talk, where other people can find it. Regards, Bishonen | talk 22:11, 4 September 2007 (UTC).

Me! Me! I have sentiments, and I am a comedy. (The Relapse... you know, dear, it's kinda sorta somewhat sorta kinda sentiment-ish, if you tilt your head and squint, but it's not in any way Sentimental Comedy. If I were doing Sentimental Comedy (and heaven and administration forefend I ever do), I wouldn't even put the two together, because the sentimentalism in it is probably relevant more to the later-emerging sententious sentiment in Steele and Lillo ("Lillo and Snitch," as I call them).) Geogre 00:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		For several years worth of service to Wikipedia, I, Sharkface217, hereby present you with this barnstar. --Sharkface217 04:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Long overdue. --Sharkface217 04:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Kewl! Thank you ! [Places it in secret Award Gallery with a crazed cackle of gratification. ] My preciousssssss ! Bishonen | talk 10:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC).

Toilet paper holder

Dear Sir/Madam/or both, while propagating wikilinks for my newly created cigarette case I could not help but notice the existence of seemingly duplicating articles, User:Bishonen/European toilet paper holder and User:Babajobu/European toilet paper holder. Is there any particular reson for this redundancy? In this connection I also could not help but nothice that in User:Bishonen/Toilet paper holder the section "Antarctic toilet paper holder" pitifully lacks the subtle elegancy and verifiability of the remaining text, so I even at first did not believe you added the piece yourselves. Also I refret to notice that you are unfortunately mistaken: in Antarctica they wipe themselves with snow. This is a little known and unusual, however plain, fact, but it is rather believable, if you recall the reason why Arabs consider the left hand unclean (if you wave with left hand to bin Laden (PBUH), he will shoot you in place and Iran you will be fined and your left hand stoned (rajm-i-sqierd)). If you didn't know the latter fact and don't believe me (wikipedia article missing), check out google. Therefore if you don't object, may I humbly ask you to allow me to rewrite this rather stubby section. (Suggested summary: in Antarctica the whole Antarctica is one huge toilet paper holder (or its homolog), making it the hugest TPH in the whole wide world.) -User:Laudak

Well, User:Bishonen/European toilet paper holder, and so on, are userpages, not articles. The names starting with the name of a user means that they're in "userspace", not "mainspace". All sorts of things go on in the userspace... people are free to copy the piece, composed mainly by User:Giano and myself, ad libitum, and keep it in their own space, and I think more than Babajobu have done so. User:Bishonen/Toilet paper holder was an impulsive attempt to organize tph's across the globe, which I immediately got bored with. Still in existence, is it? Fancy that. Do feel free to improve it according to your own creative notions.

Cigarette case is very nice, though I miss a seriouos historical section. What about the design of cigarette cases in ancient Egypt? And did the Aztec make theirs of gold? Or silver? Bishonen | talk 08:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC).

"historical section" - yes, I am aware of that. Since I am not an expert and wrote it using google for wisdom. Since there are close to million of google hits, 95% being merchandize ads, it was quite painful job to pick the gems out of dirt. I will try to continue this later. It is amazing how simple things may have rich content to write about. Laudak 18:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I susupect that "Cigarette case" is a good candidate for WP:DYK, but I cannot think of a good DYK catch phrase. If you agree with this, can you help with a nomination? (Funny, I looked into its linkage and see that AlexNewArtBox thinks that this article is related to Cold War :-) `'Míkka 22:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Empires

Would anyone like to comment on this? --Joopercoopers 11:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Hoary...

...has just offered me a beer so I believe the fuck off has been forgiven. (At the moment I posted it, I felt within my rights.)

If you've read that then you have seen some of the back story. Radiant and PMA (for reasons I still don't fathom) are against Wikipedia joining the rest of the English publishing world and advising against masculine usage where gender is indeterminate. Yes, the singular they rankles some people, but if it's good enough for Cambridge, it should be good enough for Wikipedia. Despite your animus against Tony (and apparently me), surely you see the wisdom in this proposed (and incredibly mild) guideline. Marskell 16:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Animus against Tony? Was I supposed to be taking a shot at Tony? He's always pleasant and polite to me, so that would be black ingratitude indeed. You don't think Tony's alone, or extreme, in opposing FACs over dots and dashes, do you? I sure don't. It's a sad state of affairs if I can't give info on ANI for any other reason than animus. Radiant kept pointing out that editing a guideline isn't a big deal, and I couldn't understand why no FACer would tell him that changes to the MOS are a big deal wrt FAC, because of the featured article criteria and the "MOS breaches" Wasn't it true, what I said? Was it a secret? Was the discussion better for Radiant not knowing it? I did object to your attack on Hoary, yes. It seemed quite unprovoked to me, as I didn't see any "venom" in his post. I only saw energetic annoyance at attempts to police perfectly good and established usage (singular they ) into submission. Apparently you agree about the matter of fact. I don't know which guideline you mean, whether about gender, singular they, or something else. I read the singular they stuff on Tony's subpage—don't remember how it caught my eye—not the gender stuff. You'll have to be more explicit about the incredibly mild guideline if you want a response about it. Bishonen | talk 19:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC).

Nonsense. Cambridge is folly in this regard, and they will correct themselves before long and look as silly in the process as the publishers of "Jive Bibles." An indeterminate "he" is acceptable. An alternation of pronouns or the use of "he or she" is preferrable. More variation and more potential is better than less. Utgard Loki 17:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Last, first: Bishonen calls 'singualar they' "good and established usage" (I agree that's it's generally good, if not totally established; Hoary and I seem to agree as well—I think we failed to realize that we agree, which was part of the problem). Utgard, meanwhile, is calling it nonsense. Cambridge is not in folly and I very much doubt that Cambridge is going to reverse direction. Of course, he is still acceptable with indeterminate gender (the proposed guideline does not say otherwise). But if, in 2007, you're so lazy that you cannot come up with non-sexist phrasing (yes, it is sexist, once you have the cognitive tools to understand what sexism means) then I'll call your position idiotic. The opposition to the guideline (not necessarily to the phrasing, but to the general intent) has been idiotic indeed. (The guideline I'm referring to is the potential guideline in Tony's user space, whose talk page we're discussing.)

"[Do I think] Tony's alone, or extreme, in opposing FACs over dots and dashes?" He most certainly is extreme insofar as he does that. But he doesn't, in my experience, oppose over dots and dashes—he opposes over the general quality of the prose and orthography, of which dots and dashes are one part. I mean, I have literally never seen Tony write something like "Oppose: incorrect dash use" by itself. Perhaps he has. Most often I have seen "Oppose: this is not professional prose." Tony is the most exacting editor I have encountered wrt prose, and I think he knows he's at one extreme but feels it worthy to defend that fort. He's seen me keep a FAR over his prose objections, almost certainly; and he also knows I consider his comments closely. Articles are certainly never defeatured based on dashes alone. That would be truly silly.

Which leads to last: there is no FAR/FAC cabal. There really isn't. If your post to AN/I, Bishonen, was not prompted by real animus toward Tony (or me), then I retract the suggestion. But it's become extremely tiresome to read these posts tacitly suggesting that there is a group of people cackling over em-dashes. Marskell 21:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

You're right, Marksell: Cambridge already looks silly and won't have to wait. Using a singular they is not good, but it is an old error. Old errors are still errors, and arguing from practice to rule is utterly stupid, because, in fact, using a plural noun with a singular verb, or vice versa, is quite common as well, and yet we elitist snobs still call it an error. From the evening news to TV commercials, you will hear such things as, "There's millions of reasons for calling this a mistake." "Oh, but proscriptive grammarians are all just trying to rap our knuckles," people say. No: number is non-negotiable in English. This is not telling children to stop saying "ain't." This is telling you, and anyone else who cares, that it is an outright error to write "they" and intend a singular. It is not acceptable, not good. It is an affront to logic and sentiment, and the fact that people do it has nothing to say in its favor. People get drunk and vomit on their friends, too, but it's still an error. Using "he" as an indefinite singular is acceptable. Using it does not indict the understanding or politics of the author, either, and, frankly, how dare you or anyone else say that a stranger must be a sexist for not adopting your desired solution to the problem of English's lack of an indefinite personal pronoun? It's rude, and it's stupid, to do so. My first thought is that someone who does that is trying to be old fashioned and has a fondness for what HE perceives as being "proper" (fussy) English. I would not conclude that such a person is a sexist, for I do not know HIM (and "he" turns out to be "she" as often as not).

To embrace "they" as a solution is to embrace the least logical, least elegant, and least communicative of the many solutions to the problem.

As for CUP, it already has a silly reputation for being faddish. This certainly doesn't help them gain the gravitas they long ago forfeited. Geogre 01:43, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Addendum: I just noticed your good-hearted post to Tony's talk, Bishonen. I had read the AN/I post as an unfair jab at him but I see that you didn't intend it as such. You appreciate the work he does—so do I. We can agree on that! Marskell 22:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

What would we do without the three of you: Bishonen, Hoary and Marskell? Among my most respected WPians, truly. Let me say that Radiant and PM are, as far as I can see, mounting a gradual attack on the status of MOS. They've successfully weakened it a little via the style-guide, only the other day. PM's strategy of unilateral and sudden changes to the text, without consensus (now vehemently supported by Radiant on that count) has gathered pace. Now they and their associates are widening this front to include age-old complaints about the upholding of standards at FAC (and FAR/C by implication). I've analysed some of Radiant's polemic at GNL, which s/he has taken great offence to. And now there's a continuing campaign against me at these administrative sites I've never before set foot in. Oh well, the dogs may bark, but the caravan moves on. PS I never oppose FACs for dots and dashes, but I do expect them to be fixed up. Tony 00:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

---

Geogre, Hoary, and Loki, I've moved your following posts to Geogre's page. I really don't know what they, or some of the above either, were doing here. Please take a hint, now. Bishonen | talk 16:24, 7 September 2007 (UTC).

Paintings of people crossing things

Hi, I stumbled upon your category Category:Paintings of people crossing geographical features, and out of false patriotism I made it for the world to see that Suvorov crossed more things than Napoleon :-) What worries me that I am aware of quite a few deletionists which may try to delete this category under some pretext or other. I see this happening all the time, the notable example being the category:Lists of songs, which was literally devastated after I split it into reasonable and quite large subcategories similar to yours. Can you think of some solid rock argument to oppose them? `'Míkka 19:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh, wow... and you actually created that dab page for it? I'm touched! Here was I all set to apologize for my silliness and speedy the category myself... but it's too nicely populated to delete, now. OK, that's my rock solid argument: "Keep, too nice to delete." There's a wide-ranging discussion of it here, btw. Bishonen | talk 19:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC).

Personally, I think lists are a better way to treat something like that, but then some people don't like the lists either... I would be able to come up with a better argument to keep a list as opposed to a category. I'm starting a few painting lists at User:Carcharoth/Paintings depicting battle, death and war. Please feel free to contribute. Carcharoth 19:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear Mrs Bishonen,

I am a great admirer of yours. One could not help noticing your valiant attempts to educate the lower orders - of course you are wasting your time as the lower orders are not what they once were - grateful and thankful for their lot. You may be interested in researching one of the world's, greatest lost paintings Landseer's famous depiction of my great uncle Hubert Noteworthy-Smallcock Bart. crossing the equator - for it was who discovered the southern hemisphere. Were it not for he Wikipedia would have been denied all its Antipodean editors - and for information on those parts would be reliant on pygmies or whatever it the natives of those parts are called. The painting depicts Sir Hubert "in glory" surrounded by Brittania and an assortment of shot indigenous fauna - Sir Hubert was a great hunter! Without false modesty I can say he was one of Britain's most homicidal baronets.

Thus, I am surprised indeed that no Wikipedian has thought to write a page on my illustrious ancestor Sir Hubert Notworthy-Smallcock Bart. However, to pose, a more important, question - where is Landseer's Smallcock? It has not been sighted since 1941 where it was displayed prominently in the drawing room of my great aunt (Lady Noteworthy-Smallcock) in Berkeley Square - refusing to acknowledge Hitler's existence she defied the Blitz preferring to sit as she had always chosen to do sipping Château Margaux and Dom Perignon combined (a family recipe, wittily referred to as a Smallcock-tail) until a doodlebug ceased to doodle over Berkeley Square. Since that date my beloved aunt and the painting have not been espied again. A reward is now offered and if it appears on Wikipedia as a result of your appeal - that Jimbo Wales will be sued. yes Mr Wales that is a legal threat!!!! I want my Smallcock returned to me so that I may enjoy it in the privacy of my own home.

Sincerely yours

Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 20:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

For example, in Hebrew, pet and petting are entirely different words; the latter, לטף, has to do with the gentleness of caressing, whereas the former, either חיית מחמד or חיית שעשועים, is translated as "cuteness" and "amusement animal," respectively. Respectfully yours, El_C 09:19, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah! You mean that "pet" means kawaii ? Bishonen | talk 09:26, 9 September 2007 (UTC).

That's right, I am not making this up! El_C 09:28, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Help

Do you think you could review this block and commentary by User:William M. Connolley. He has abused his administrative privileges by selectively blocking one person in a dispute to which he is an involved party. I would bring this up with an AN/I, but I want to give one shot at good faith, and ask someone uninvolved to review it. If I'm nuts, then so be it. But if WMC wanted to block anyone, I could provide a list (myself included) in this particular articles arguments. It appears that WMC was asked by one of the least civil individuals in the argument to review CO's commentary. Nothing about it seems fair. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 15:46, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I am happy for you to review this if you feel inclined. For myself, I believe I am not involved - see my talk page for more on that side of things. I invited OM to tell me of equivalent PA's by other editors and he has chosen not to do so. OM should probably have pointed out what you'll find very readily: that he is heavily involvedon CO's side William M. Connolley 16:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

You need never be troubled again

I shall be sure never to post to your page again, after this. Utgard Loki 16:44, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Latest FAC

Congratulations my dear on a charming little page very prettily written, one would hardly know the struggle you have with English grammar - I expect that nice handsome Italian boy helped you out what a talent he has! I've always found the Swedes a very cold race, I remember cruising in our yacht around the fjords seeing them queuing to emigrate a touching sight - allthough why they wanted to go to America is beyond me - England is so much nicer. As I said well done. Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 17:18, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

How kind, dear Lady Catherine. (And how kind, MONGO, thanks for the star!) Do I know a nice handsome Italian boy..? Perhaps you will introduce us? Anyway, are you sure those were Swedes queuing to emigrate? Lemmings, perhaps? I could have sworn all the Swedes had already left on the Stockholm-Lübeck-Hamburg route to Southampton, there to board the Titanic for New York, America. Bishonen | talk 17:53, 9 September 2007 (UTC).

• Don't speak to me of the Titanic - so many dear friends lost - of course I had my own life-boat, but I am still humbled when I think of the calm acceptance of those simple Swedes trying to climb aboard as my faithful maid Gunhilda hit them with her parasol explaining to them the value of my wardrobe stowed safely on board. However be assured I wrote a very stiff letter of complaint to the White Star Company on my return on their behalf - realising the gravity on the situation they sent me a free ticket for life which I feel must have been some compensation to the bereaved. Such are the trials and sugfferings of the highborn. Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 19:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

April fools article

Lick me in the ass <-- I swear to God this would be the PERFECT April Fools article. Raul654 21:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Not bad. Lady Catherine, you who represent decency on Wikipedia, you must surely agree on this culture article! Bishonen | talk 21:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC).

Bad?... BAD? It is horrendous to think I have referred to Raul as a nice Italian boy, clean living and wholesome, I take it all back he is nothing of the kind - I am shocked to my core, I intend to complain to that nice Mr Wales - who is pressing me to join his charitable arbitration committee. Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 22:03, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

It can't help it - I was born a pervert, and I'll die one :P Raul654 22:13, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh perverts I know all about them, my fourth husband was one of those - You young man are odious - quite odious, in a more enlightened day and age you would be horsewhipped - but I suppose you would quite enjoy that! Just wait until Mr Wales has put me in charge of recruitment your days will be numbered. Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 22:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Apology

Hi Bishonen. I'm sorry if I upset you yesterday... as, indeed, I think I did. There was certainly no intention to do so. Without going into justifications and self-righteous posturing, I was somewhat bewildered by some of your comments and we all know how easy it is for silly conflicts to blow up here. Returning to first principles... I know you're "one of the good guys" round here, and I hate to think I irritated you. The issue's a non-issue and this is a sincere apology for any grief I caused. Cheers. --Dweller 09:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

We're cool, Dweller. Bishonen | talk 10:45, 10 September 2007 (UTC).

Radiant

I regret that Radiant has misplaced his (or is her?) temper; but you should bear in mind how irritating Tony can be. This edit alone would be enough to try a reasonable editor, and there are many more like it; and his edit summaries are a whole separate field of obnoxiousness. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

OMG you're not still harping on that "ploy" edit? Yes, I know Tony simmers up, but he also simmers down, as you suggested here. Btw I'm very sorry your fine article on Orion had such a parody of a FAC process. The behavior of that editor—you know the one I mean, currently being RFC'd—would be enough to turn me off FACing my stuff forever. :-( (In fact I've just come off a long FAC strike for a lot less, touchy as I am). Bishonen | talk 17:14, 11 September 2007 (UTC).

No, I'm not fuming about it; but then it wasn't aimed at me. Radiant may be, though. If you've seen it, I'm sorry to bring it up again. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:22, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Template request

Hello. I've put together a template on the Restoration comedy of manners, and taken some of the play titles from the Restoration comedy page, and added a few more in my collection. However, some of the ones on the article page I don't know, so I was wondering if you'd have a moment to confirm whether or not they're comedy of manners, or just plain comedies written during that period. The ones I'm not sure about are:

• The Lucky Chance
• Bury Fair
• Sir Anthony Love
• Sir Harry Wildair

Many thanks, DionysosProteus 12:41, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

What a nice box! Very attractive and useful, and I always like it when they're placed at the foot of the page. I'd definitely call those Restoration comedies of manners, yes. Sir Anthony Love is discussed a bit in Breeches role, btw. Bishonen | talk 23:22, 12 September 2007 (UTC).

Grand. Many thanks. DionysosProteus 16:26, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

WP:MOS reverts

Hi Bishonen. I don't know if you watch this page in general or if you want to remain involved, but Radiant! is being totally intractable, even with your very simple version of the GNL recommendation.[2] Odd for an editor I've always found measured and willing to talk. Not sure how to proceed—I have a definite sense from the language that s/he's using that the reverts are going to continue. Marskell 15:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

If you're right, I suppose he may eventually be blocked by somebody uninvolved for edit warring, as outlandish as words like "blocked" and "edit warring" sound in connection with Radiant. I've always admired his style, so I'm pretty unamused that he's ignoring all I say like some no-account trolling. Anyway. The uncharacteristic belligerence and impatience, which I've noticed in other ongoing discussions too, sound like he might be going through a patch of—I don't know (boldly commenting on the editor, not the edit, here)—burnout, maybe. I tried, anyway. Not much more I can do. Bishonen | talk 23:06, 12 September 2007 (UTC).

Yes, I've always found Radiant! rather radiant. Burnout or late-blooming bitterness (the complete change in Durin saddened me, as another example). But the GNL debate is full of surprises. This from Raul was a bit of a shock: "'He' is the correct English language word for the third-person gender neutral or undefined pronoun. That's what I was taught in school, and that's what they still teach in school" from an editor that I've gathered is under-30. Are there still syllabi that advocate masculine and masculine alone? Perhaps south of some latitude in the U.S.? Marskell 10:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually more likely to be in Ohio, or even Minnesota. But Marskell could ask him, instead of these random speculations on American politics, which indeed seem to be driving much of the MOS faction, as with this political irrelevancy. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:27, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Caption Contest

It's been slow on this page lately! My watchlist hasn't changed in 2 days. So, in the spirit of Giano, can we have another painting caption contest?

1. "My Lord, my stomach still hurts. I hope another furry dog shant emerge from my nether regions!" --SGT Tex 01:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
2. "Oh noes it's the Talk:Kiev/naming page!" Bishonen | talk 12:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC).
3. "It's not a baby, it's a balloon."--Ronnie Barker 12:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
4. "I have to pee. Would you let the dog out so she doesn't chew my sandals?" - Jehochman ^Talk 01:03, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
5. "Putin Grooming Mother Russia for His Next Term in Office". Just look at the face of this guy and compare it with a mugshot of Putin in his thirties... And the dog is very like Putin's Connie. --Ghirla^-трёп- 12:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
6. Can you see that guy with the gun in the mirror? I don't think I show that much, if we keep him out of the picture no one need ever know... KillerChihuahua^?!? 12:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
7. .....and moving on to the Van Eyck, we find the first documentary evidence of Bishzilla's customary 'staring through the window, prior to laying waste to cities'......--Joopercoopers 13:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
8. .....well if Panofsky says we're married, I suppose it's ok.... Johnbod 17:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
9. Maybe dey get lucky, have a fishapod! [Eats furry dog.] bishapod splash! 19:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC).

Kiev vs. Kyiv

You're the first admin who's name appears at Talk:Kiev/naming so I deliver this request to your good hands. It would be a blessing for the project if Horlo would drop his request, but I think he is completely incapable of self control. - Jehochman ^Talk 03:59, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Ouch... OMG... How about WP:RFCU? Meanwhile, I've cravenly hid behind a "Who, me? Too sick!" template, see top of page, and hastily passed on your baby, or hot potato, to my favorite hot potato man. Bishonen | talk 12:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC).

Get well soon. - Jehochman ^Talk 13:03, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Feel better, hon! (an order) El_C 22:54, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Ha

Akpafu-Todzi, Volta Region, Ghana

As for two-dozen speaker languages, I seem to have upscaled: I spent the last three months in a lovely mountain village in eastern Ghana researching a language spoken by about 10,000-15,000 speakers. Very busy currently (analyzing three-months worth of field work data is no easy task), but I do hope to at least fix that red link... — mark ✎ 08:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Oh and only now I see that dready banner on top of this page — I do hope that you will feel better soon! Please take the picture above to be a suggestion for a proper health resort, rather than an attempt to make you jealous! — mark ✎ 08:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Reputation

I award this barnstar to myself for idiocy. El_C

I have like 20 barnstars and shit! El_C 14:32, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

How is it that you are so great?(!) Kitty 18:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for asking! Lots of petting. El_C 11:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

• Hello Kitty, long time! Might you please assist me now and then with exchanging the Featured Pussycat image, currently a tiger cub in snow? Much obliged! Bishonen | talk 18:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC).

• At your command! El_C 11:12, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Help (2)

Thanks for your lovely sentiments on my talk page, I'll miss you and all the people that hang around your talk page.
I've been trying to get an overly long and verbose article of mine deleted, to no avail. [3][4][5][6] Do you have any advice? I thought Criteria 7 seemed quite clear cut and explicit - one of the admins even said the request did technically comply with the criteria, but just couldn't bring himself to do it. The article's rubbish as it stands - I'm quite happy to have it userfied, but I'm loath to leave it in mainspace in that condition. Cheers, --Joopercoopers 08:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Reading the speedy policy. Check, such a case is covered. I'd rather delete than userfy, actually. AFAIK, there would be nothing to prevent anybody from moving it from your userspace back to mainspace—they wouldn't even need to be an admin—and I'd rather not move war about such a thing. (I'm willing to wheel war about the deletion if somebody undeletes, though—why haven't I had a wheel war yet? I can't be a real admin!) I assume you have a copy on your hard drive? OK, deleting. Three...two...one...zap! We have lift-off! Bishonen | talk 11:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

Enormous thanks Bish, unfortunately, since leaving my message, I've been blocked, featured on the ANI and all sorts of various kurfuffles have occured (It's become a bit public) - you might have your head above the parapet now. Take care, --Joopercoopers 11:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

(Ryan get's his whip out. Ryan Postlethwaite 11:36, 18 September 2007 (UTC))

BLOCKED? Wow, talk about going out with a bang! [Goes to investigate.] Bishonen | talk 11:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

Don't worry about Ryan - they're all a bit like that in Manchester - "rigourous discipline is the key" :-) --Joopercoopers 11:39, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

My take on it is now on ANI. Bishonen | talk 11:43, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

He's not the sole author of the article, there were edits from others so you can't use G7. Ryan Postlethwaite 11:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

There always is a bit of fiddling by other people, Ryan. Please go reread G7 as stated: it doesn't say there mustn't be any edits by others. It says the page is to be speedied if the author requests it in good faith, and "provided the page's only substantial content was added by its author." My italics. Joopers wrote the only substantial content. Honestly, Joopers, look me in the eye and tell me: do you have even half this much fun at Citizendium? Bishonen | talk 11:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

It's like shutting the gate of the bazaar and walking into a paradisical garden of gentle manners and helpful loving smiles - so far. --Joopercoopers 12:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

See? See? Told you! Bishonen | talk 12:07, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

Oh... I just realized. You meant you like the garden and the smiles..? [Walks cautiously backwards, feels for door with foot] Yes, of course, dear... quite right! Don't worry, the orderlies will be here in a jiffy! Bishonen | talk 12:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

I know, but despite all that, it appears to be a place where stuff can actually, you know, get done <gasps>. --Joopercoopers 13:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) Two instances of editors making a couple of extremely minor edits? No, no, Ryan. Joopers is the only author - comma faults don't count as authorship, nor do spelling corrections etc. Why are you being such a pain about this? KillerChihuahua^?!? 11:56, 18 September 2007 (UTC) Adding: What precisely did you think you were preventing by that block? Blocks, I am sure you recall, are preventative, not punitive. KillerChihuahua^?!? 12:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Speedies

If you're looking for another, try my talk page please. Thanks. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little dubious about reinvoking the right to vanish, I must admit. Especially in the middle of an arbcom case where people may want to refer to edits there as evidence of this or that. Sorry. Please ask again when the case is wrapped up, I'll do it then. Bishonen | talk 12:37, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

I won't be around then. I'm leaving now, I've done what I came back to do. If you won't delete it now, please accept this as an instruction to delete it post-ArbCom per right to vanish. Thanks. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 12:44, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

OK. Bishonen | talk 12:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

Drv

Howdy, I've sent Origins and architecture of the Taj Mahal to deletion review. Regards, Navou ^banter 12:41, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Geogre

Er...have you seen this? Que pasa? --SGT Tex 15:00, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's what it says. It's how he feels. It remains possible he'll feel differently later, I guess. There's no telling. Bishonen | talk 15:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC).

Radiant (2)

WP:ANI#User:Radiant.21.27s_editing_behaviour. Yes, I know: visiting AN/I is like eating mud. But if nothing else, a stop must be brought to those nonsensical archive tags. Marskell 16:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I disagreed there, so I won't disagree here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:18, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in feature discussions

This essay, begun by Radiant, contains much of what I think we should say about the relations of FAC and MOS.Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Since everybody got so mealy-mouthed recently,[7] I'll avoid mentioning what Radiant can do for all I care. Bishonen | talk 00:07, 20 September 2007 (UTC).

My talk page

I've been waiting more than a year for you to unprotect my talk page. You said you'd do it in March 2006.

--EllenFoster 08:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Blocked. M.^(er) 09:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Msg for you, sir!

That's a python reference, not a gender confusion, pretty boy. Ping? KillerChihuahua^?!? 23:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Er? How do you mean ping? I don't see a message anywhere. Howsomever, I must go to bed. Now. You may enjoy the OED entry for mother on Talk:Mother while u wait. :-) Bishonen | talk 00:03, 20 September 2007 (UTC).

Hrm, oddness. However, sleep well and dream of random quotes about mothers. KillerChihuahua^?!? 00:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello

I'm sorry if that remark offended you, but it wasn't you I was talking about. I generally consider you a wise and level-headed contributor. But I'm afraid I must have missed the questions or appeals to me you've posted at MOS and FAC's talk page. Looking through the history, the only one I can find is this one, which I assumed was a rhetorical question. To answer it anyway, no, I do not choose to appear as an ordinary fomentor of strife. I am trying to hold a discussion about the content of certain pages, but this is made difficult by people who continually shift the discussion to be about editors instead. Whether this is passion about a hot-button issue, or simply clever rhetoric, I am unsure, but it is frustrating. It would be nice to be able to discuss the MOS without being called a nazi, but I'm not going to run away from a dispute simply because people think ad hominems are the easiest way of winning a debate - which, again, does not refer to you. It's a nasty world in here, and if you have suggestions on how to deal with that or improve it, I'd be happy to hear them. Yours, >Radiant< 09:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

We have to talk about you as an editor, Radiant! You're editing behaviour is seriously out there at the moment. The first edit you made to an MoS page today was to revert JayHenry on the template after he'd clearly explained why it's problematic. You're listening to no one. Frustrating? Yes, it is frustrating. Marskell 09:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Marskell, you have lots of fora for the frustrations, including an open thread on ANI. Do you mind? I was trying to have a little communication. Bishonen | talk 18:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC).

Kiev/Kyiv

I hope you are feeling better.

Horlo wouldn't drop his request, and now I've had to side with him because, although he's terribly irksome, he happens to be right. All official entities in Ukraine use Kyiv when writing in English, as do the United States and United Kingdom governments. Our Wikipedia:Naming conflicts page says that populated places get to choose their own name. This is an objective criteria, not subject to voting by editors, and not dependent on common usage. There are several POV pushers engaged in the debate so there's no way to achieve consensus. What's an editor to do? You created this page Talk:Kiev/naming, so you are the one who has to drive a stake through it's heart, shoot it with a silver bullet, or submerge it in running water. - Jehochman ^Talk 15:29, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree with this at all. "Kyiv" is not a term that exists in the English language as customarily spoken by English speakers. The basic rule of naming conventions is, as it should be, that we use the customary form of names where there clearly is a most often used form. Newyorkbrad 15:35, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, all sorts of celebrities hang out here. :-) Newyorkbrad, please read the discussions and post your opinion at the page. If you check the websites operated by the United States and United Kingdom governments, every recent document on these websites uses "Kyiv", not "Kiev". When I first heard about this name change, I was extremely skeptical, but there seems to be a surprising amount of evidence in favor. - Jehochman ^Talk 17:04, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Based on your comments I will take a fresh look, but I have to say that I never saw the spelling "Kyiv" in my life until a couple of weeks ago when I came across reference to this debate on Wikipedia. Newyorkbrad 17:31, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Me too. It looked very dodgy at first, but the facts are confirmable. - Jehochman ^Talk 17:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Complete rubbish. The city is Kiev As pronounced and written in Britain and emulated by the Rusians or whatever the natives of those parts are currently calling themselves - the poor dear Tsar must be turning in his vault. As for you Bradley from New York - you have mail. Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 17:46, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

M'lady, I deeply regret that you have been exposed to such coarseness. Perhaps hot tea and scones would help restore your constitution? - Jehochman ^Talk 20:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Quelle horreur! The city is Kieff as pointed out in, among others, Guide du voyageur à St. Petersbourg, ses environs immédiats et ses résidences impériales -- the names of the towns of Muscovy having been given in French, and for anglophone purposes quite properly kept there (A summer in Kieff; or, Sunny days in Southern Russia). There are, of course, those who venture to disagree about the representation of these "Russian" names, V. V. Nabokov among them. Incidentally, immediately above the entry for "Kiev" (sic) in the index of the later edition of his Onegin we see the line Khrushchev, see Hrushchyov (when the correct form is surely Hrouchtcheff). Dr Syntax -- 05:50, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Er... so, Hrouchtcheff was in the Onedin Line? Bishonen | talk 07:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC).

Hrouchtcheff was I think in the water cooler line, although he would have fitted well into a Tchaïkoffski chorus line. But back to the question. Could the Scythians, Goths, Cossacks and other interested parties not turn their Kalachnikoffs into ploughshares and compromise with the ethnically neutral 基輔? Dr Syntax 08:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

....and what has happened to poor dear Geogre, he is very quiet these days, you should listen more to him - he is very clever and wise. He would know the answer to these questions instantly. Catherine de Bourgh (Lady) 17:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Email

I responded to your email.¤~Persian Poet Gal ^(talk) 16:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Another small question

Err, I was wondering if I could get a softblock put on the IP I'm at right now, 24.224.240.191. It's a school IP, school started a couple of weeks back, and kids are just getting at the computers. The vandalism is gonna start coming in by the truckload. Just a thought. Lychosis ^T/C 16:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the tip. I can't really block until I see the trucks starting to come in, though, and they haven't yet. I'll keep an eye on it. Bishonen | talk 17:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC).

It'd be a bit more evident, if the IP didn't seem to have changed since last year. They had quite a few blocks on their log, if I remember correctly. (Addition: I think it's this one that we used to use. Lots of blocks in it.) Lychosis ^T/C 03:59, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

And here it comes! Blocked for two weeks. Bishonen | talk 07:48, 22 September 2007 (UTC).

Confirmed the link on Estonia

Works also elsewhere than in Estonia. They probably just blocked those computers or IP ranges which were directly involved in the cyber attack. Владимир И. Сува Чего? 19:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. It works, now, but only if I first click to accept a temporary and "not trusted" certificate thingy. I expect it's getting back to normal. Bishonen | talk 19:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC).

Ah that certificate thingy will become trusted if you enter your Estonian ID card into the card reader. :) Владимир И. Сува Чего? 19:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

When?

Bish, I have been thinking. I've been an admin since 14 January 2006, and no one has ever opened an Rfc against me. When is it my turn to get cupcakes? When do I get a chocolate cake from Geogre? Lollipops? Somethings wrong here, I'm sure I'm at least as rouge as you, probably even rouger. (redder? more rouge? ack! its a tart, too much rouge! I digress) I don't think its fair, somehow, that I haven't had my allotments of virtual desserts. When is it my turn? KillerChihuahua^?!? 23:27, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Funny you should mention the RfC [eats a cupcake], I was just doing that myself not one minute ago.[8] Paws off my food! Who taught you to beg at table, slayerpup? Bishonen | talk 23:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC).

Congratulations

Barbary striped grass mouse — cute, stripey little pet.

Hi, Bish. I've just noticed that Swedish emigration to the United States was promoted to FA a few weeks ago, and I never noticed it until now. Congratulations. I'm still disappointed that my favourite Wikipedian didn't contribute to it at all, though. It's hard to believe that an article that didn't merit her attention could be a first rate article. I've been a bit worried recently that she wasn't around much. (I can do without that silly little Poddie. I don't know how she puts up with him.) I had been wondering had she caught some strain of dino 'flu, or had she eloped with Muzzy. But I see she made an edit yesterday. I've recently found another cute, stripey little pet for her, so I've included it with this message. Cheers. ElinorD (talk) 19:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Please. Bishzilla was invoked twice during Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Swedish emigration to the United States, and some of us are still brushing the smoke from our fur. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 20:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Bishzilla also showed up to the Troubles Arbcom to volunteer her services as a troubleshooter. Personally, I wanted to ask her if she had a group rate to give..er.. "massages" to a certain group of editors ;) SirFozzie 20:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

She doesn't exactly put up with Little Stupid... Bishzilla has some good qualities, but maternal she ain't. Ah, massages! 'Zilla's Dispute Resolution Board And Swedish Massage Parlor ought to be the very place, but it doesn't seem to be very active. I don't think 'Zilla really expected it to need any running, she seems to expect it to just ...work, somehow. Would somebody like to help? Introduce a few instructions, a bot, transcluded pages for cases, that kind of thing? Bishzilla could still be the Raul of the place, if somebody else does the bureaucracy. [Puny 'shonen reaches absentmindedly for the Barbary striped grass mouse, stirring her mid-European meat stew.] Bishonen | talk 21:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC).

		The Featured Article Medal
		Thank you for all your outstanding featured level work!--MONGO 06:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks, I didn't want to do that myself as the whole issue has become incredibly silly, and I want my involvement to be minimal. DrKiernan 07:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

A pleasure. Bishonen | talk 07:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC).

Re:Summary of IRC chatlog

Thank you for the link to the ArbCom case. Your interpretation of the exchange compared to that of the involved parties is obviously different. In looking over the logs in their entirety myself, my opinion falls somewhere in the middle. I'm not sure it was any sort of underhanded deal to have two articles below GA standards be listed, but the end result was at least one article making the list that shouldn't have. I haven't looked over Dihydrogen Monoxides's article yet, but that's definitely on my todo list. Anyway, thanks again. Regards, LaraLove 19:51, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I would certainly have preferred to give more hard facts (=quotes) and less opinion and interpretation altogether. I found it awkward and difficult to summarize the exchanges at #wikipedia while not allowed to quote people (with the exception of Francis). But it doesn't really matter in your case, since you have the logs and can come to your own conclusions. Best regards, Bishonen | talk 20:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC).

An anon would like to ask you a question

Hi, Bishonen. User:132.205.44.5 would like to ask you to look into Talk:Kiev/naming/anyone other than Horlo Irpen or Reginmund because s/he says it looks "abusive and prejudicial." Thanks, Cheers,JetLover (Report a mistake) 23:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Clever anon, they went on to User:Bishzilla! :-) Bishonen | talk 23:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC).

AN discussion

FYI, you are mentioned several times in an AN thread here. Regards, Newyorkbrad 15:30, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. See thread above. Bishonen | talk 15:41, 27 September 2007 (UTC).

That does not address the larger issue.Rlevse 17:37, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

re. A request

Email sent. Dihydrogen Monoxide (H₂O) 00:40, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

User:Wetman...hehe...er, yeah, it was a yes, although IIRC the comments have been published anyway ;-)  — Dihydrogen Monoxide (H₂O) 09:07, 1 October 2007 (UTC).

Have they? Well, plenty of scope for missing stuff on this site. Thanks, Wetty. Bishonen | talk 09:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC).

Talk page

Personally, I'd like to see this page unprotected, at least on a trial basis. But I appreciate there may be very good reasons for it being semi-protected I don't fully know about. How about something at the top of the page telling anonymous users who have a real need to contact you to use User talk:Bishzilla or a subpage of this talk page? Neil ム 11:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Neil. Thank you for asking nicely. I did notice User:Until(1 == 2) suggesting the same thing on ANI [9], and thought it rather a good idea. But I admit I lost momentum when someone else then complained about how wrong it would be to "relegate" some users to a subpage and in any case I have "many tools".[10] I mean, if it's not even good enough... Also, perhaps more cogently, I'm pretty sure I would miss posts on a subpage (including Bishzilla). When my watchlist has almost a hundred new items at the top, as frequently happens, I do sometimes overlook changes to watched pages. Hmm. I have thought of sending anons on to a friend's page, so I'd get help in noticing new posts, but... well, I really don't want the guy bugging my friends, any more than myself. You know, every time I've experimentally unprotected, he has noticed it very quickly. It seems unlikely (how does he do that?), but is a fact. Oh... I see you reckon the world wouldn't come to an end.[11] No, very true, and a gracious thought. Bishonen | talk 20:26, 28 September 2007 (UTC).

My problem! Expert needed

Can you keep an eye on this [12] I am out for the day, and the anon is now reverting useful information. God knows who he is, but it is now bordering on vandalism. If that image goes then so do almost all wikipedia's other 19th century fotos. Strange behaviour. We need an expert here. Giano 08:03, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Leonardo da Vinci

The reason why the Leonardo page remains almost permanently protected is obvious. It is accessed by kids all the time and vandalised all the time. Take a look at 28th-30th August. Also, since it's up for FAC, it's not exactly the right time to invite vandalism. .... but on the other hand... maybe some toilet humour would would liven it up a bit. By the way, whatever has happened to Lady Whatsername? : )Amandajm 13:24, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

And I know school vandalism is up right now, too. But Leonardo really doesn't have more reason to be permanently protected than lots of other equally vandalized articles. I know it's on FAC—I'm just writing a review—but in a way, that is exactly the right time to unprotect, as more people than usual are watching it. Anyway, I do realize re-protection may well turn out to be called for quite soon, and I'm keeping a close eye on it (for today, at least). As for the formidable Lady Catherine, I believe she's currently busy in a sandbox composing a very lovely bio page of her fascinating life. I've kept well away—I don't feel it would be very safe, or courteous, to edit in her userspace—but hopefully she intends to move it into article space eventually, and then we can all chip in. (Indeed, I hope she means to nominate it for Featured article.) Best wishes, Bishonen | talk 13:55, 30 September 2007 (UTC).

Yes, well I can assure you, Bishonen, that what she is putting up there merely scratches the surface. I could say a grreeat deal about her ancestry. She has mentioned remarkablly little abbout her connection with New South Wales and in particular, Port Arthur. There happens to be links between our families; quite a close links as a matter of fact, as a great great great grandfather of said lady was shackled to mine in one of the chain gangs that built the Parramatta Road. I wouldn't be so high and mighty, even if my mother had slept with the Prince of Wales. Her grandmother, as you may not be aware, was Lady Bracknell's parlour maid.

Thank you for your edits to Little Len... a definite improvement, even if you have removed some of my flowery prose. Did you know they have found evidence that he picked his nose with his left hand? I am feelingg a little ppissed off because I mmanaged to lose all the edits I made yesterday and will have to start again. The cite to the David is there already, but in the wrong place. I'll fix it. Amandajm 01:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

GA

I started a thread regarding GA at the village pump here. I used the link to ARB evidence case you had provided at WT:FAR. Any comment on my village pump proposal would be appreciated. Cheers, Marskell 13:52, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Chip images

Even being petted behind ear is not good enough for Commons dogmatism ("delete, see only back") El_C

Added to Petting and Do not feed the animals. :-) --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 13:28, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

If I knew what kind they were, there is a whole Category:Tamias and Category:Chipmunks full of articles that mostly don't have images. (BTW, there a couple of categories clearly calling for merger) --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 13:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Some charitable individual cited WP:GRIEF to me. I suppose I'm at the last stage. El_C 20:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

We need a WP:TOOCUTETODELETE... :-) --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 20:22, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

It's somewhat interesting how the involved editors on commons say: 'why don't we take some time off from this so that everyone can cool off,' and then bombard me with messages. What can I say, I guess they really want my input und donations! El_C 20:50, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks

This edit summary is not appropriate, you already knew that though. While your point may be valid, the way you made it was not. Please try to be civil, nasty comments will only make the situation worse. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 17:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Just because you have a point about Tony does not mean you can violate the no personal attacks policy. You say "Thank you for taking the trouble to let me know your views, but I don't share them", but these are not my views but the policy the community has decided on. As an admin you are expected to respect this policy, even if it is not a view you share. Civility applies to everyone, even long term editors such as yourself. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 14:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't give Until(1==2) attitude, Bishonen. He approached you in a civil manner and reminded you of WP:NPA. Even though you're an administrator and a long-time editor here, that doesn't exclude you from following Wikipedia policy. Nishkid64 (talk) 14:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't give me lip, Nishkid64. Even though I quoted and linked to a page hosted by David Gerard to Tony Sidaway, that doesn't exempt you from exercising common sense. Bishonen | talk 15:07, 4 October 2007 (UTC).

I would prefer not to see any aspect of this situation escalate any further. Please? Thanks all. Newyorkbrad 15:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Well an agreement to follow policy would accomplish that brad. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 16:16, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I haven't seen any further violations of WP:NPA from Bishonen, so as long as she continues to follow policy, that should be good enough for all of us. She made an ill advised comment, and you reminded her of policy. Fine. Now drop it. - Jehochman ^Talk 16:22, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

No, I reminded her of policy and she indicated that she does not share this view. I would like to see some sort of commitment to policy, instead of a rejection of it. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 16:27, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

The diff you provide does not show Bishonen renouncing policy. It simply says that she doesn't share your views. If Bishonen makes further policy violations, I will warn her myself and ask for a block if necessary. Nobody is beyond reproach for their actions, but once you state your piece, you need to drop it.- Jehochman ^Talk 16:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Well that is sure the impression I got. I had hoped to talk this out, but since there is resistance to discussion in this matter, then I guess I will just have to keep an eye on things. Frankly I think things will go better if we talk about it instead of waiting for it to happen again, but I will drop the matter if Bishonen does not wish to discuss it. ((1 == 2) ? (('Stop') : ('Go')) 16:34, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Until(1 == 2): Bishonen said that she did not share your views. Which views, we may ask: that her edit summary was not appropriate? That the way she made her point was not valid?

How you read that up into a threat to breach policy beats me.

You might find that other editors would be more recepitive to your admonitions if you were to hand them out in a more consistent manner. For example, based on the presence and absence of your warnings, you seems to think it is OK to use the terms "bollocks" or "wankery" in edit summaries, but not the term "fuckhead". I am not sure why that should be the case. I thought we were all admonished not be a fuckhead. Being reminded of such in appropriate circumstances is surely acceptable. -- !! ?? 21:59, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

And so Newyorkbrad's well thought out request drops soundlessly out of view. Folks, there is a little smoldering ember here, that may well go out if just left alone. Stop pouring gasoline all around it. Please. --AnonEMouse ^(squeak) 22:08, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Please desist

Everybody's talking... except the hostess, I've been away all day. Until(1 == 2), you posted the reproach up top last night (in my timezone), prompting me to write a short response[13] (incidentally, it had a comment about your priorities which after all your messages you still haven't addressed—same point as I see User:!! making), and another from work today to your reinforcements that turned up a little unexpectedly. Then I didn't have time to check Wikipedia for many hours, until after I got home. From your pettish assumption here that "Bishonen does not wish to discuss it", I receive the impression that you resent my not standing by 24 hours a day to respond to your posts, but, well, that's not practically possible. Anyway, I was a little shocked at belatedly seeing your repeated posts to me and my friends (including one further unsolicited post to me on your own page, while you were still being civil, which seemed about proportionate to the perceived offense—why wouldn't that satisfy, now?), and at your alternation between menace ("Well an agreement to follow policy would accomplish that brad [=would stop you escalating the situation further].[14] and pout ("waiting for 'it' to happen again", my scare quotes).[15]). You seem to be past the point where you require any response from me to keep going, but I'll give you one anyway (one, yes, that'll have to do), since I believe you misunderstood my original reply. When I said I didn't share your opinion about WP:NPA, I didn't mean that NPA isn't policy (? sorry, but I'm genuinely floundering here, as to what you thought I did mean) or that I'm somehow exempt from following policy (qué?). I meant that I didn't agree I had violated WP:NPA. In my opinion I wrote factually and reasonably to Tony Sidaway, explaining what I considered the problem with his behaviour. I wrote "Don't be a fuckhead" as an alternative to the tired "Don't be a dick" locution (are you going to tell me you pester everybody who says "Don't be a dick" in the way you've been pestering me?) and particularly because of the page "What Makes a Fuckhead?" by David R. Kendrick, hosted by Tony's friend and powerful wikipedian David Gerard. I thought Tony would be bound to know about it. I don't know if you bothered to click on my link. The term is appropriately defined on that page ("A Fuckhead Must Refuse to Abide By Common Social Rules"... "A Fuckhead Must Never Back Down When Caught In A Lie"... etc.).

In a nutshell: I don't, myself, agree that I have "personally attacked" Tony Sidaway. I do think that you have attacked me today, through sheer bulk, insistence, and tone. I hereby ask you to stop posting to my page. It's unpleasant to keep getting the "You have new messages" banner, then finding yet another same-all-over-again-post from you. However, you're wrong if you think you can force me by such means to say something you would like to read. Bishonen | talk 22:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC).

Any further baiting by 1==2 will be removed and reported. He flatly aims at escalation of the conflict defending users clearly in the wrong and distressing Bishonen. There is nothing else here and his continued posts of the kind will be dealt with as such. --Irpen 22:51, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

In light of Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Tony Sidaway 4, I see Bishonen's admonition not to be a fuckhead as pertinent and to the point. Although there was clearly no intention to insult, Until(1 == 2)'s ill-advised persistence resulted in slander being spread all over Wikipedia. If Until(1 == 2) has some ancient issue with Bishonen, he is welcome to step up and state clearly what it was. --Ghirla^-трёп- 22:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I daresay if I called Irpen or Ghirla a "fuckhead" even in the most innocuous loving manner they would be all over me like a pack of wolves demanding my permanent banning from WP. More do as I say, not as I do. The "slander"ous diff appearing elsewhere is appropriate. There can only be ONE standard for behavior. —  Pēters J. Vecrumba 14:26, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Does no one click? Click the words when you see uncharacteristic terms. Read what you see when you click. Check who wrote them. Consider the context of their usage. Then formulate your opinion. I think "Don't be a Fuckhead" is wholly inappropriate, and I would love to see David Gerrard blocked if he refuses to delete the essay. 1==2 really should be bothering David Gerrard right now to get rid of that onerous insult. I think he should be trying to get people to block David Gerrard. Otherwise, he should use some damned common sense and try to find out what he's talking about before attacking another user. Peters J Vecrumba should, too. No one has called anyone a fuckhead. David Gerrard has hosting a wildly inappropriate and intentionally provocative essay, and Tony Sidaway has endorsed it. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, so go gander at that. Utgard Loki 16:17, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Except that David Gerard (only 2 R's, you obviously don't know him very well) hasn't done anything wrong. Essays are allowed to be provocative. That's why they're called essays and not guidelines. He certainly hasn't done anything blockworthy, and blocks are preventative not punitive. I would admonish you to not be a fuckhead, but having not read that essay in some time, I run the risk of misusing the term. ⇒ SWATJester ^{Denny Crane.} 16:22, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

So, umm, if David Gerrard has never done anything blockable, and yet he did the essay with "fuckhead" in it, then how on earth is 1==2 going to get to block someone? Don't you understand the purpose of all these messages? We must have CIVILITY, and if you cite that essay, then you need to have civility, so it follows that David Gerrard must be blocked, and right away, before he leads anyone else to cite the essay. (Smart is good, Swtjester, but smarter is better.) Utgard Loki 18:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Everything useful (if anything) done in months (if not in years) by David Gerard, Tony Sidaway, 1==2, NullC, Cyde and several other users from that buddies' group who know well who they are as well as all their other accounts (some don't have other accounts and some do) is by far outweighed by the amount of harm their activity is causing to this project. Not a single bit of content, some useful bot-writing (why not outsource this to geeky school-kids who would be even more enthusiastic in scripts but less interested in power games), a lot content editors FA writers pushed out through ill-advised blocks or harassment campaigns (Worldtraveller, ALoan, Bunchofgrapes, Geogre, I hope you read it one day. We miss you and your articles.) Bishonen was forced to quit several times, at one time even kicked out from #admins, whose culture she does not fit but composed herself and returned making more FA's. I won't appeal here to the decency of her detractors knowing that it won't work. But this talk page campaign stops now. Any further aggravating, taunting, snide remarks will be removed on sight and you can go discuss how to do a "clean kill" for that all you want. --Irpen 17:59, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Right whats going on here - who has been called a Fuckhead? Giano 18:28, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

More Shutterbug disruption

Please see WP:AE#More Shutterbug disruption - your views would be appreciated. -- ChrisO 18:52, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup tags, infoboxes and 'start' rated articles

It occurred to me that maybe you'd enjoy this sequence. Haukur 21:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

It's the Talk page that is amazing to me. Did you know that the article would benefit from an infobox? Did you know that a photograph of the 11th c. writer "is needed?" Did you know that the average Wikipedian has the capacity to write, but apparently cannot read? Geogre 10:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Tony Sidaway RfC

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Tony Sidaway 4 Please endorse the statement of dispute if you feel it is appropriate to do so. Viridae^Talk 02:31, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Great Fire of London

Bish, could you do the honours on 122.148.198.79 (talk · contribs). Conflagration changed to fire yet again... David Underdown 09:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thanks, David. Bishonen | talk 10:11, 4 October 2007 (UTC).

I was hoping there would be an article on conflagration, but it redirects to fire... We have articles on vehicle fire, wax fire (scary!), tire fire, mine fire, campfire, bonfire and firestorm (see also flashover). What we don't have is urban fire. The closest seems to be Firestorm#Firestorms in cities, and that only covers the firestorm type of urban fires. Probably we also need building fire, together with causes of said fires, including chimney fire. These are all as opposed to natural fires (though firestorms can be both natural and manmade), such as wildfire (see also bushfire). I found all these in Category:Fire by the way. Other missing ones are oil fire (or fuel fire), oil well fire (slightly different) and electrical fire (major cause of fires in the home). Carcharoth 10:25, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we could change the redirect on conflagration? Point it to Firestorm#Firestorms in cities until someone can rustle up something better? David Underdown 10:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good. I also found Category:Fires, with fires by location being fairly common. Such as library fires, and categories for airplane fires, school fires, nightclub fires, ship fires, train fires, and the rather inventive Category:Fire disasters involving barricaded escape routes (which adds theatres, factories, hospitals, and even a circus) to the list. No prison fires yet, though I'm sure there must have been some. Sadly, of course, these are all notable for the high numbers of casualties due to people being trapped in a confined space. Carcharoth 10:34, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Redirect done. Fires started by earthquakes are also a notable subcategory that hasn't been started yet. Ditto for wartime firebombing, though we have the article. Carcharoth 10:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Now I look at it, firestorm seems to use "conflagration" in the sesne of being a precursor to the full development of a firestorm. David Underdown 10:47, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Now 203.102.161.75 (talk · contribs) has joined in (and has previously done so on one other occassion by the logs). This second IP looks like it may well be the work IP of our other friend based on whois/RDNS lookup and there's one other article in common between the two sets of contributions. I've gone straight to uw-vand4 as a result. David Underdown 14:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Image:Isps gate.jpg

You may recall that there was an issue about Image:Isps gate.jpg back in March. User:Bishonen/Archive 10#Image:Isps gate.jpg Basically, user:Sfacets created the picture and uploaded it under the GFDL. Much later, it turned out that the photo depicted an sign that contradicted a point he wante to make in the article it illustrates. Once that was discovered he sought to have the image deleted. At the time, you initially deleted, then agreed that a GFDL cannot be revoked. Sfacets didn't press the point further at the time. Now, he's seeking to revoke the GFDL.[16] There's no noticeboard to cover these situations, but I suppose it could be dealt with at WP:IFD as a special case. Meanwhile, I've initiated a discussion at Image talk:Isps gate.jpg. If you have any thoughts your input would be appreciated. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)