Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests: Difference between revisions
→Appeal of Prof02: removed after 8 days, no possibility of acceptance (vote was 1-4) |
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*Accept. [[User:Mindspillage|Kat Walsh]] [[User talk:Mindspillage|(spill your mind?)]] 02:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC) |
*Accept. [[User:Mindspillage|Kat Walsh]] [[User talk:Mindspillage|(spill your mind?)]] 02:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC) |
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=== Appeal of Prof02=== |
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: '''Initiated by ''' [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] ''' at the request of '''Prof02''' at''' 14:04, 23 November 2006 (UTC) |
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==== Involved parties ==== |
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*{{Userlinks|Prof02}} |
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*{{Admin|Bishonen}} |
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*{{Admin|Charles Matthews}} |
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; Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request |
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Bishonen and Charles Matthews were notified. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] 22:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC) |
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; Confirmation that other steps in [[Wikipedia:dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] have been tried |
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Prof02 has been blocked and his user pages protected. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] |
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==== Statement by Prof02 ==== |
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I would like to request arbitration of the case involving the work-in-progress posted on my user subpage, to wit: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Prof02/Erich_Heller |
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This was "split", and one of the split parts was moved from the above-referenced user subpage to Wikipedia main article space by User:Bishonen, User:Charles Matthews, ''et al''., on September 13, 2006, without my knowledge or consent. The action violates established Wikipedia guidelines, such as, for example: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_page#Ownership_and_editing_of_pages_in_the_user_space |
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I wish to request a re-merger of the split article. |
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Furthermore, while preparing a dossier on the matter at [[User_talk:Prof02/archive#Conflict_in_need_of_resolution.2Frequest_for_comment]], I was blocked from editing Wikipedia, while one of the blocking administrators (User:Bishonen) posted defamatory statements on my talk page ([[User_talk:Prof02/archive#Block_warning]]). |
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I wish to request unblocking and action against the accused. |
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In answer to User:Geogre's post on the arbitration page, I would like to say that if I am just abusing the system by using a user subpage (containing an article that has been worked on virtually every day for six months since its inception) for my own private purposes (what purposes might those exactly be?) that do not further the goals of the project as a whole (so User:Geogre), than can that user, User:Geogre, explain to me how the user subpage posted on the system since 25 December 2005 at: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bishonen/Moods |
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fosters those (encyclopedic) goals of the project, so that its presence on Wikipedia servers is felt to be inoffensive and is left unchallenged? Does the trick involve the development of a group of like-minded mud-slingers around one's person, so that one can always count on help from them ''en bloc'' when the need arises, rather than standing alone? |
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Please be aware that the same user, User:Geogre, just a few days ago accused me of fraud here: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AArticles_for_deletion%2FErich_Heller&diff=85652136&oldid=85650780 |
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by stating that the '"author" [of the Erich Heller article] is not the "author," having gotten an account change since beginning' -- without offering a shred of corroborating evidence (which does not exist, as the allegation is false). Might this not, in itself, warrant the opening of an arbitration case against him? |
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All things considered, I do not see how User:Bishonen, after having written the words "your foul mouth" with reference to someone in a public arena and in User:Bishonen's official capacity as an administrator (consciously stating the fact here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AProf02%2Farchive&diff=87375398&oldid=87362143), could possibly continue as a Wikipedia administrator -- whatever the judges' decision on other points might be, and even if all these other points were to be decided in my disfavor. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] 13:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC) on behalf of Prof02 |
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====Statement of Charles Matthews==== |
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I played no part at all in the manoeuvres described. At most I expressed an opinion on my Talk page that the userfied page had been there quite long enough. |
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[[User:Charles Matthews|Charles Matthews]] 19:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC) |
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No evidence has been presented about the ''initial'' posting of [[Erich Heller]]. If it is 'biting' a newcomer to remove non-encyclopedic tone from new articles, though, we might as well give up editing. [[User:Charles Matthews|Charles Matthews]] 14:42, 27 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:(In reply to a point brought up by Giano) I am not 'shame-faced'. I backed off early in proceedings, having had someone say I was handling it badly. I was asking for policy to be enforced, is all. But I am not one to plough on in the face of that kind of comment. How on earth do you get to ''as a member of the arbcom if he felt an injustice was being carried out, it was his duty to speak up about it''? What injustice? [[User:Bishonen]] is an experienced and widely respected admin, who could well handle this matter. As an Arbitrator I have to be very economical in making public comments about matters likely to come to dispute resolution. I have throughout tried only to explain policy here to User:Prof02, as my proper role. The fact that Bishonen and I have had little impact, working at it different ways, really speaks to the fact that the 'issue' (i.e. the fact that [[WP:OWN]] is not negotiable) is intractable. [[User:Charles Matthews|Charles Matthews]] 18:12, 25 November 2006 (UTC) |
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==== Statement by Bishonen ==== |
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Prof02 often refers to himself on his talkpage in the third person as "the plaintive" [sic]. I ask Fred not to buy into such quasi-legal talk to the extent of referring to me as a "defendant". I don't see myself in that role. I have no intention of defending myself. The ArbCom will have to make do with the following illustrative links from me. |
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For the events referred to, please see: |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bishonen&oldid=61771816#Erich_Heller Conversation on User talk:Bishonen, 2 July] |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Prof02&oldid=87714900#Deletion_of_redirect_link_by_User:Harro5 Conversation with Harro5 on User talk:Prof02, 3 July] |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bishonen&diff=75232559&oldid=75128115 WikiPedant, 12 September] |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bishonen&diff=75316261&oldid=75303255 Bishonen, 12 September] |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AmiDaniel&diff=prev&oldid=75438983 Discussion AmiDaniel/Bishonen, 13 September] |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bishonen&diff=next&oldid=75328406 Bishonen 13 September] |
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*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Erich_Heller Erich Heller AfD, 4 November] |
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I also urge arbitrators to read [[User talk:Prof02|Prof02's usertalk page]] (the version before it was blanked as an attack page by [[User:KillerChihuahua]]), the [[User talk:Prof02/Erich Heller|userfied Erich Heller talkpage]] and the [[Talk:Erich Heller|mainspace Erich Heller talkpage]]. Most—almost all—of the input on those pages comes from Prof02 himself, and I believe his own words throw more light on his complaint than anything I could say. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 22:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC). |
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====Statement by uninvolved party [[User: Giano II|Giano]]==== |
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I am surprised to see Bishonen here being described as "The accused" |
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and "the defendant". I do not intend to dig up edits proving that |
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prof02 is an eccentric in the grand manner, and Bishonen's efforts to |
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solve the problem were correct and in good faith, as that is obvious |
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to most. What concerns me is the attitude and statement of Charles |
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Matthews, a member of the arbcom, who was fully aware of how Bishonen |
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was attempting to resolve a difficult situation. Not only was he |
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fully aware - it was his express wish that she do so, as he wanted |
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too avoid the flak himself [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Charles_Matthews&diff=75284803&oldid=75233129]. |
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Charles Matthews has known of this situation since September, as a |
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member of the arbcom if he felt an injustice was being carried out, |
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it was his duty to speak up about it. He has not. I do wonder how |
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it is that a member of the arbcom can invite an admin to resolve a |
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problem - sit back silently while they do so, and then when the |
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problem arrives here announce "I played no part at all in the |
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manoeuvres described". |
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After all the talk of "the accused" and "the defendant" at the end of |
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the day there is no crime committed here by an admin unless |
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dishonourable and disappointing behaviour by a member of the arbcom |
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is a crime. The case should not be accepted because there is no |
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case, but I do hope Charles Matthews is feeling a little shame-faced. [[User:Giano II|Giano]] 20:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC) |
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====Comment by Uninvolved User:Newyorkbrad==== |
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The use of the word "defendants" was in the template for new cases and has been changed after I pointed this out (see talk). On the merits of the case, I recommend speedy rejection. This is an unfortunate situation, because Prof02 may have good subject-matter knowledge to add to the encyclopedia, but he appears to have difficulty with the concept of collaborative editing and has now become focused almost exclusively on the ''idee fixe'' of who moved [[Erich Heller]] into mainspace and why. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 20:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC) |
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:I missed the use of "defendant" in the template. Sorry about that. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] 22:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC) |
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====Comment by Uninvolved user, [[user:Geogre]]==== |
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For clarity's sake, I should like to reassure myself and others that, while this was brought on behalf of Prof02 by Fred Bauder, that the text is from Prof02? |
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The user wants the block to be overturned. That is not very controversial, although I believe he was blocked after a very long history of misunderstanding the nature of cooperative editing and the GFDL, misunderstanding that led him to increasingly hostile comments that neared paranoia in their disconnect from the reality of the site. The second part, "action be taken" against those who blocked him and locked the talk page, is ill-conceived, nebulous, and without any apparent basis. Prof02's dispute with Wikipedia (because it is, indeed, with Wikipedia) is that he is not allowed to have an article entirely to himself segregated onto his user page, with no sharing and no editing from other people. That is the ultimate form of [[WP:OWN]] violation, as well as our general prohibition on people using Wikipedia as a private web host (or text editor). Anyone who has been involved in moving, copying, or editing that one contribution has become an abhorrent figure to Prof02. This, to me, falls well short of the threshhold of ArbCom action. |
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Prof02 is abusing Wikipedia more than editing it, in my view, although not noisily. He has his own intrasite, it seems, and if he is left as the emporer of it, he will neither be seen nor heard from, but if anyone wishes to make articles of that stuff or take it away, he gets panicked. If he were using his pages for hoaxes or scams, we would have gone to a long block long ago, but the fact is that he uses this private space for research and circumlocutions, and so it looks less noxious, even though it is, fundamentally, the same misuse of services. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 04:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC) |
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====Comment by completely uninvolved [[User:Ghirlandajo]]==== |
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It takes no arbitration to establish that Wikipedia is free for everyone to edit. Prof02 seems to ignore this basic fact. He hijacked an article for his private ownership and proceeded to edit it in a manner not acceptable for any encyclopaedic project. After the page was restored to mainspace and purged of cruft, he stooped to personal attacks and was blocked from editing. His request for unblocking may be resolved by community on [[WP:ANI]] or some other appropriate board. I see no great problem here. It's hard to understand why such a trivial matter should take time and efforts of so many precious contributors and arbitrators to settle it for a considerable period of time that arbitration normally takes. I have interacted with numerous editors who have experienced difficulties in adapting to the norms of behaviour accepted in the project. Some of these have failed to adapt and are currently blocked ([[User:SuperDeng]]); others successfully overcame their behavioural problems and evolved into excellent authors ([[User:Kenmore]]). Prof02 seems to have selected the first path. Admins from [[WP:ANI]] may choose to give him another chance, although I see no compelling reasons why this should be done. In short, I see no arbitration case here and urge ArbCom to move on to tackle some really serious instances of disruption. There are plenty of these around. --<font color="FC4339">[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirla]]</font> <sup><font color="C98726">[[User_talk:Ghirlandajo|-трёп-]]</font></sup> 20:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC) |
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==== Clerk notes ==== |
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: (This area is used for notes by non-recused clerks.) |
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==== Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (1/4/1/0) ==== |
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* Recuse. [[User:Charles Matthews|Charles Matthews]] 18:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC) |
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* Accept for consideration of [[WP:BITE]]. [[User:Fred Bauder|Fred Bauder]] 19:25, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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* Reject. Some people aren't cut out to be Wikipedia editors. [[User:Jayjg|Jayjg ]]<sup><small><font color="DarkGreen">[[User_talk:Jayjg|(talk)]]</font></small></sup> 22:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC) |
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* Reject. I don't think arbitration is the best way to handle this situation. I don't see a dispute to arbitrate over the block; the blocked user protesting is not sufficient. An appeal of this block doesn't need to come to the AC and should be left to regular admin judgment. If there's anything further to be done about this I'd suggest an extraordinarily patient mentor. [[User:Mindspillage|Kat Walsh]] [[User talk:Mindspillage|(spill your mind?)]] 05:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC) |
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* Reject. Like Jayjg and Mindspillage, I see nothing here to arbitrate. [[User:Morven|Matthew Brown (Morven)]] ([[User talk:Morven|T]]:[[Special:Contributions/Morven|C]]) 16:09, 27 November 2006 (UTC) |
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* Reject. [[User:The Epopt|➥the Epopt]] 22:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC) |
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---- |
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Revision as of 15:38, 1 December 2006
A request for Arbitration is the last step of dispute resolution. Before requesting Arbitration, please review other avenues you should take. If you do not follow any of these routes, it is highly likely that your request will be rejected. If all other steps have failed, and you see no reasonable chance that the matter can be resolved in another manner, you may request that it be decided by the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom).
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Request name | Motions | Initiated | Votes |
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Wikipediocracy-related conduct | 21 October 2024 | 4/3/2 | |
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Covert canvassing and proxying in the Israel-Arab conflict topic area | 6 November 2024 | 0/0/0 |
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The Arbitration Committee considers requests to open new cases and (exceptionally) to summarily review new evidence and update the findings and decisions of a previous case. Review is likely to be appropriate if later events indicate the original ruling on scope or enforcement was too limited and does not adequately address the situation, or if new evidence suggests the findings of fact were significantly in error.
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See also
- Arbitration policy
- Wikipedia:Arbitration policy/Past decisions
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How to list cases
Under the Current requests section below:
- Click the "[edit]" tab on the right of the screen appearing above the section break line;
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Note: Please do not remove or alter the hidden template
Current requests
Jews for Jesus
- Initiated by ParadoxTom 03:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Involved parties
- ParadoxTom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- DJ_Clayworth (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notified: [1].
- Moshe_Constantine_Hassan_Al-Silverburg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notified: [2].
- Humus_sapiens (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notified: [3].
- Homestarmy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notified: [4].
- Inigmatus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Notified: [5]
- Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
Other steps have been tried. Cf. the involved parties' Talk pages, the Jews for Jesus discussion page, and our abortive mediation attempt: [6].
Statement by ParadoxTom
I am filing this Request for Arbitration as a final attempt to bring to an end the POV-pushing occurring on the Jews for Jesus article. Secondarily, I would like to see some users be censured for their inappropriate conduct; specifically, many of us who have sought to make Jews for Jesus encyclopedic and NPOV have been, eo ipso, called anti-Semites.
I don't have much else to say, as the involved parties have been over this all ad nauseum. I would refer interested persons to the references provided above.ParadoxTom 03:52, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg
Tom's above summary is very misleading. First of all, nobody has ever accused either him of his supporters of being anti-semitic. From the very beginning of their arrival, they have removed any passage that even implies that Jews for Jesus is a christian group despite numerous reliable sources. The only references that they have provided in support of their version comes from JFJ (or other smaller messianic organizations) themselves, when undue influence is brought they will immediately state that the reliable sources are irrelevant and we cannot take sides.
The basic dispute centers around the desire of a small circle of editors to describe JFJ as a Jewish rather than Christian organization. Now obviously religion is probably the most divisive issue known to man, so I really do not want to get too involved with any theological debate, however I will ask this- What seperate Judaism from christianity if it is not the belief that Jesus is the son of God and the Messiah?- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 04:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Statement by JoshuaZ
- I would urge the ArbCom to reject this RfAr. As a glance at ParadoxTom's mainspace contribution lists will show, he has edited almost nothing except for the Jews for Jesus article[7], his otherspace entries have all also been devoted to that conflict[8] and has in three months here short time here accumulated 9 3RR blocks on the article in question, one of which occured immediately after he had been unblocked to participate in an attempted mediation.[9]. His edits have most recently been attempts to revert to a version of the article from a few months ago as "the next best thing" to have a {{totallydisputed}} tag on the article [10]. Indeed, he has been unwilling even to use a weaker template even when other editors who have sympathies with him have attempted to use it instead [11]. I would see this user as very close to exhausting community patience.
- However, this article is not ripe for arbitration in that 1) almost all of the issues but Paradox's reversions are content based and 2) Progress on the article is occuring albeit slowly. It would be counterproductive and a waste of both the involved editors time and the ArbCom's time to intervene at this stage. JoshuaZ 04:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Statement by Homestarmy
- I've been involved in discussion with this article almost ever since the very first comments on the talk page began, and its been a very messy history. Many people have been blocked for 3RR violations, have left the project out of frustration it seems, (User:Justforasecond) and have clearly let frustrations fly many times. While i'm not so certain that Paradox is explicitly correct that people on one side of the debate over JfJ have been labelled anti-semites, I think a case can be made that many personal attacks have occured nonetheless over the months. While many of the attacks have been directed at JfJ itself, and thus, if I understand this correctly, don't actually constitute any real policy violations, things have often gotten out of hand over the past few months, for example, in archive two, (I don't have time to provide the diffs at the moment) there is a comment directed to Justforasecond, (who has since left Wikipedia) "..your edits pushed your delusion that J4J is just another Jewish denomination that a bunch of long-bearded Hassidim oppose." by User:Mantanmoreland on September 4thish of this year. On the 15th, we have "I suspect you're having "a serious problem with the claim "All maintream Jewish groups..."." because you don't know what it means. Your edits only confirm this impression" closely followed by "You don't have a point and you don't have a clue what you are talking about. See [12]." By Humus Sapiens to User:SpinyNorman in archive 3. When Spiny objected on grounds similiar to most non-anti JfJ editor's arguments, Humus responded with "For once, I agree with Spiny: "The intro is a disaster. It is filled with blatantly deceptive statements." - after his edits, that is.". After Justforasecond brings up the (possibly incorrect) point that since all Jewish organizations oppose a Christian organization, (and therefore a part of Christianity) Humus says "Wrong. It is Judaism that is under attack here." (With "here" I presume meaning the JfJ article, since the dispute at that time concerned the wording of how much opposition Judaism really had for JfJ.). A very recent comment concerning an actual involved user in this case I have a diff for however, namely, with Humus again to DJ: [13]. which I think is very exibitive of the more current trend the conversations on the talk page of JfJ have been taking.
Unfortunently, it seems i'm about out of the word limit :/. I know most of what I have up here can easily be called quote mining because I haven't shown the full context of these quotes, but I think that if this case is accepted, I can provide diffs for these statements and many others which show many personal attacks on users involved with this article. A possibly relevant situation may be the recent Template:NotJudaism template TfD here, but I feel that user conduct is a more easily defendable reason for Arbitration in this particular case. Homestarmy 04:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Statement by MPerel
- I've had some involvement on this page. Overall this is a content dispute, albeit a bit heated at times. I think the editors are slowly working things out with the exception of User:ParadoxTom who has been particularly disruptive. Even Homestarmy warned Paradox Tom that "Arbitration Committee members will see a single-purpose account who has an extensive block log, a long history of not accepting policy concerning 3RR and what constitutes vandalism, and possibly even a vandal, because you've reverted to very old revisions of the articles several times."[14] (he actually sums it up pretty well). --MPerel ( talk | contrib) 05:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment by Sam Blanning
ParadoxTom has been indefinitely blocked per exhausted community patience, with unanimous endorsement on WP:ANI at time of writing. Unless the Arbcom wants to review his ban - and to me it looks clearly appropriate - there doesn't seem anything more to do here. The other parties don't sound especially keen to go to arbitration, and at least two seem to be against it. --Sam Blanning(talk) 12:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Statement by User:Inigmatus
I am one of many fustrated editors with JfJ. Even though I know the page needs help, I think if we had more input from those who do not hold to Judaism, or Messianic Judaism, or even Christianity, that we would make some true NPOV progress. We need more unbiased 3Os. Currently resolutions, changes, and such in this article seem to be "enforced" by majority rule, and not true consensus taking into consideration the viewpoints of ALL sides. The number of Jewish editors that do not like JfJ seem to be in my opinion, outnumbering supporters for JfJ with its empathizers, combined - and this fact alone seems to be the "weight" that this article has enjoyed in its current presentation. As an empathizer, I want to see MORE consensus, and less weight-throwing. When an issue is disputed, I want what every editor who makes such a dispute want: discussion over the issue and NOT a revert. inigmatus 16:29, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Statement by User:Humus sapiens
It would be difficult to find something in the article Jews for Jesus that was not disputed at one point or another. By now, it is quite well referenced, and the initiator of this case even feels that it has too many refs. I will try to briefly address the points raised above:
- ParadoxTom (talk · contribs), Justforasecond (talk · contribs) and SpinyNorman (talk · contribs) are good examples of problematic users that this article seems to attract. They made eccentric statements, were unable to provide any evidence but continued revert warring and making a point. Their block logs reflect their behavior.
- For all my words and actions I take full responsibility and if this case proceeds, I will provide the context. For now I will only say that Homestarmy's assumption of what I meant by "here" is wrong: I meant JFJ, not the talk page. We have a good policy concerning making assumptions. Also, it seems unfair that Mantanmoreland wasn't even notified that he is being mentioned and quoted here, so I left him a note.
- Finally, I agree that this is a content dispute and the article is slowly improving. Thank you. ←Humus sapiens ну? 13:06, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Clerk notes
- Homestarmy has been requested to trim his statement. --Srikeit 05:06, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/1/0)
- Recuse. I have blocked ParadoxTom indefinitely, please see WP:ANI#Community_ban_for_ParadoxTom. Dmcdevit·t 05:19, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Sex tourism
- Initiated by Daniel E. Knodel, M.A. at 03:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Involved parties
- KyndFellow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) -- Mr. Knodel
- 68.5.116.235 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- edgarde (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sex tourism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
- Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
- User:KyndFellow submitted this request on 2006-11-25T21:45:05.
- User:edgarde notified on 2006-11-25T22:42:25
- User:68.5.116.235 notified (for the sake of completeness) 2006-11-26T01:44:01
- Fred-Chess informed
- Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried
- RfC requested on 2006-10-31T17:55:52
- On 22 November 2006, advocate Fred-Chess suggests mediation to resolved dispute, and editor edgarde declines this proposal.[15]
Statement by Mr. Knodel
I would like to request arbitration as a last resort in resolving a dispute that has perpetuated for over a month with almost daily reverts and editing conflicts. The dispute has been stressful and unproductive to all editors involved. There is simply no other way to resolve this without third-party intervention. I've outlined my request for specific content to be reviewed on the Arbitration Specifications section of the Sex Tourism Talk Page.
Daniel E. Knodel, M.A. 06:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- I filed arbitrate to stop accusations such as these. My request is serious in all points that are addressed, and I expect page content to be treated with respect as well as the links. All agruements I have presented throughout the discussion are completely valid. I was not paid off. I am not promoting myself. Sly Traveler is not my website. I did not use puppets to impersonate other editors. I have been insulted and treated rudely throughout the discussion. What do I need to do be treated with respect, and not have other editors attacked when they don't agree with your point of view!
- Daniel E. Knodel, M.A. 22:40, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- Let me address the Def_Trojan puppet charge. He is my brother, Patrick Knodel, who lives on the other side of town in California, and we both use COX Communications as an internet service provider. I did ask him to support me. I'm not sure how you reached the conclusion that he was me, but I can only imagine it might have been that we both use the same ISP. I still maintain that I have not acted dishonestly, and that I never impersonated other editors.
- As for Delover, I don't know him outside of Wikipedia.
- Daniel E. Knodel, M.A. 21:27, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Statement by edgarde
Mr. Knodel began editing on October 28, linking the Prostitution article to Sex tourism, then adding extensive pro- sex tourism promotional POV edits to the Sex tourism article.
I reverted these edits. Since then, KyndFellow has been edit-warring (against multiple editors[16][17]) to introduce and repeatedly reinstate POV edits to Sex tourism, and to reinstate his website, The Sly Traveler, to the External links section.
About 90kB of text has been added to the Discussion page where Mr. Knodel has WikiLawyered, unilaterally declared arbitrary rules, resolutions and moratoria (always favoring retention of his edits), purported insubstantial changes to be cooperation, acted put-upon and persecuted, canvassed[18][19][20][21] , misrepresented (and deleted[22][23][24][25]) other editors comments, ignored feedback from several editors, and put on a puppet show.
Even this RfA seems like an attempt to freeze the article with his website linked from Wikipedia for as long as possible.
Sample POV edits by Mr. Knodel (his most early, and most recent):
- Mr. Knodel long fought to redefine[26] "Sex tourism" (an established concept[27][28]) as including activities such as observing other cultures and visiting sex museums.
- Mr. Knodel frequently reverts[29][30][31][32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40][41] a well-annotated Sex tourism article paragraph (the 3rd) listing common concerns about the effects of sex tourism from the United Nations perspective. Reason given in his Arbitration spec: the U.N. statement (and I quote) basically says "all aspects of sex tourism are bad." Mr. Knodel then asserts that the in-line references for that paragraph nowhere state what is in fact clearly stated in the first reference (scan for the bold words Aware and Considering, in the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs of the UN link).
Many other examples can be provided. And always, he links his website. [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59]
Linking The Sly Traveller appears to be Mr. Knodel's driving issue. His other edits are probably intended to defend and promote traffic to his website. — edgarde 00:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I suggest to await the results of Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Devalover before proceeding.
If it turns out Mr. Knodel didn't use sockpuppets, it will be an important setback for edgarde. And vice versa.
Fred-Chess 10:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- Using Checkuser, Knodel is almost certainly DefTrojan, or used the same semi-static IP at least. Devalover is probably unrelated. Dmcdevit·t 20:23, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
My first action as an advocate was to tell my client that he would probably find it problematic to add the external link to Sly Traveler. [60] A week or so later he told me he was about to have reached some agreement on the page, but that it was disturbed by edgarde's actions. I suggested he file a Request for Comments to get input from other users, and this was done too.
The RfC did not lead to consensus on how the article was supposed to be formulated, as I had hoped. At one time edgarde agreed to let the link to Sly Traveler in the article, but he later changed his mind. I did not see anyone agree with him though.
Essentially the dispute by then appeared to be between only two users. Devalover (talk · contribs) made a few edits, was never deeply involved, IMHO. For a while I therefore thought that mediation would be best. However, I now think it wouldn't lead anywhere, because edgarde is determined not to allow the link to Sly Traveler, while Mr. Knodel is determined of the opposite. I now think that further comments from unrelated others would be the best way to resolve the dispute.
There has been accusations of misbehaving from both parts, but I think both parts have acted comparatively well-mannered, and I don't think either one would persist with his actions if the community expressed support of the other one's version.
Mr. Knodel maintains that Def Trojan (talk · contribs) was his brother, and they shared the same ISP. I don't know yet if we can confirm this. However, it can at least be confirmed that Mr. Knodel has not used any other sockpuppets, which should speak to his advantage.
Fred-Chess 16:28, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Comment by Addhoc
Essentially, the dispute is about Mr. Knodel edit warring to reinstate his website, The Sly Traveller, to the External links section of Sex tourism. I would suggest the remainder of the dispute is fairly trivial and possibly a 'smoke screen' for his attempts to reintroduce this link. Addhoc 14:22, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Clerk notes
- Threaded comments moved to the commenter's own sections. Thatcher131 22:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (4/1/0/0)
- Accept Fred Bauder 22:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- Reject — obvious violations of WP:COI should be handled by the Corps of Administrators, perhaps by putting the subject Web site on the spam block list ➥the Epopt 22:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- Accept. Nothing that obvious about conflict of interest cases, in my view. Charles Matthews 23:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- Accept. WP:COI is in new form and administrators lack direction, IMO. Best we take this one. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 23:33, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Accept. Kat Walsh (spill your mind?) 02:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Requests for clarification
Requests for clarification from the Committee on matters related to the Arbitration process. Place new requests at the top.
The following was copied from Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Wilkes, Wyss and Onefortyone#Sources for popular culture to Wikipedia:Reliable sources#Popular culture and fiction some time ago:
[...] when a substantial body of material is available [...] the best material available is acceptable, especially when comments on its reliability are included.
Some questions have risen as to the interpretation of that phrase ("can't work out what it's trying to say" [61]). Could the arbitrators clarify what the above sentence means? Or would they say the sentence should be clear in its context (Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Wilkes, Wyss and Onefortyone#Sources for popular culture)? --Francis Schonken 22:32, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- In order to keep the discussions on a single spot, may I ask the Arbitrators to post their clarifications at Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources#Unclear sentence? Tx! --Francis Schonken 10:29, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
LaRouche again
I've blocked ManEatingDonut (talk · contribs) for 24 hours for violation of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Lyndon_LaRouche, which says "Wikipedia users who engage in re-insertion of original research which originated with Lyndon LaRouche and his movement or engage in edit wars regarding insertion of such material shall be subject to ban upon demonstration to the Arbitration Committee of the offense." See Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Lyndon_LaRouche#Enforcement.
ManEatingDonut was warned on Oct 23 about reinserting LaRouche material, [62] and took part in a request for clarification on this page about it. [63] Despite the warning, on Nov 18, he removed the redirect of Eurasian Land-Bridge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) to Asian Highway Network and twice reinserted a LaRouche-related text. The Eurasian Land-Bridge is a name that some people use for parts of the Asian Highway, so the title is redirected there. However, it's also a name used for a more complex idea that LaRouche claims is his. Herschelkrustofsky/Weed Harper wrote the original article that included LaRouche's views; [64] it was redirected to Asian Highway Network in September 2004. The text was restored and rewritten a little by NathanDW, [65] another LaRouche supporter, on October 31, 2006; reverted by Will BeBack; restored by ManEatingDonut on Nov 18; [66] reverted by SlimVirgin; restored by ManEatingDonut on Nov 22. [67]
I've blocked him for 24 hours for the repeated re-insertion, but I'd like to make the block indefinite. He has made 186 edits since August, almost all promoting LaRouche. He has edited logged out (acknowledging that it was him) and used the same AOL IP range 172.192.0.0 - 172.194.0.0 that Herschelkrustofsky/WeedHarper used. There's no firm evidence that it's the same person, but I believe he may be from the same LaRouche group in Los Angeles. As any proposed ban needs to be confirmed by the ArbCom, I'm asking here for your thoughts. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. Jayjg (talk) 23:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Good call. Both user:ManEatingDonut and user:NathanDW have followed almost the exact footsteps of User:Herschelkrustofsky, including the same aggressive promotion of LaRouche that got HK into trouble. NathanDW says he's independent of the LaRouche movement but his single-minded edit history belies his claim. Both of these editors appear to be sock or meat puppets of HK, and both should be banned indefinitely based on the previous ArbCom decisions, including Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche 2#Sockpuppet abuse: "Herschelkrustofsky is restricted to one account for editing. All other accounts showing the same editing patterns are to be blocked indefinitely." -Will Beback · † · 10:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- Righteous Fred Bauder 21:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for the responses. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:43, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
- Righteous Fred Bauder 21:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- Good call. Both user:ManEatingDonut and user:NathanDW have followed almost the exact footsteps of User:Herschelkrustofsky, including the same aggressive promotion of LaRouche that got HK into trouble. NathanDW says he's independent of the LaRouche movement but his single-minded edit history belies his claim. Both of these editors appear to be sock or meat puppets of HK, and both should be banned indefinitely based on the previous ArbCom decisions, including Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lyndon LaRouche 2#Sockpuppet abuse: "Herschelkrustofsky is restricted to one account for editing. All other accounts showing the same editing patterns are to be blocked indefinitely." -Will Beback · † · 10:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that no one thought to notify me of this. I left a note on SlimVirgin's talk page asking her to warn me if she thought I was violating an arbcom decision, preferably before blocking me rather than afterward. I made my views on LaRouche clear to the only person who asked me, at User talk:Astor Piazzolla. It is wrong to accuse me of "promoting LaRouche" when I have added almost no material to these articles -- I have only opposed edits that I thought were biased, or looked up sources and added them when sources were requested. As far as those other people are concerned (Herschelkrustofsky, etc.) I became aware of them for the first time when I discovered the talk page of Eurasian Land-Bridge. Apparently there was a lot of conflict between them and SlimVirgin and Will Beback. I have no interest in reviving that conflict, and it is unfair to somehow involve me in it.
I came to this page tonight to ask further clarification. The arbcom decision that I have read says "Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement may be removed from any Wikipedia article in which it appears other than the article Lyndon LaRouche and other closely related articles." This is now being interpreted by editors at the article Lyndon LaRouche to include the article Lyndon LaRouche as well, and material is being removed such as a quote from Eugene McCarthy that appeared in an EIR interview, or in this case, a quote from Mexican President Lopez Portillo. Since the arbcom decision explicitly says "other than the article Lyndon LaRouche," I would like to know if you think that this behavior is justified. --ManEatingDonut 07:38, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
- May I also ask a question here? I read the arbcom decision, and I can find no explanation for the ban on the use of EIR as a source. EIR has been published continuously for over 30 years, and is included in the Google News feeds. Is there any evidence that there have been factual errors in EIR? Has EIR ever been sued for libel? If not, why is EIR being singled out for special exclusion? --Tsunami Butler 22:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Although not provided for in the penalties, I have indefinitely blocked Terryeo as described at [68]. The reasons amount to malicious and targetted harassment of users as part of his unabandoned quest to advance his POV on Scientology. Phil Sandifer 18:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
- I doubt the necessity of this, but would not say ab initio that you have abused your discretion. Terreo does fine on Wikinfo, but our expectations are quite different. Fred Bauder 16:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
- Your link doesn't seem to work. Jayjg (talk) 23:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
- Correct link is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive62#Terryeo blocked. The edits in question [69] and [70] link to a site that tracks the activities of Scientology critics. Thatcher131 02:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- The block looks good to me. Charles Matthews 22:59, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
- Correct link is Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive62#Terryeo blocked. The edits in question [69] and [70] link to a site that tracks the activities of Scientology critics. Thatcher131 02:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Motions in prior cases
- (Only Arbitrators may make such motions)
Archives
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Completed requests
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Rejected requests (extremely sparse, selective, and unofficial)