User talk:BabelStone

Minority scripts in Unicode

There's a reason many more scripts are encoded than were ever first envisaged.... -- Evertype·✆ 15:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

...and I'm speaking to him right now ;-) -- BabelStone (talk) 16:10, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Weiqi

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Hi you wrote There is no evidence that go originated "centuries before its earliest known references", and the earliest references do not certainly refer to go. Do you happen to have the exact text of this earliest reference? I thought consensus was established on this reference, now I am intrigued.--ZincBelief (talk) 15:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC) Check out my page on the origins of go. There is also discussion of this issue at Talk:Go_ranks_and_ratings#Attribution_to_.222th_century.22. The problems with the earliest references is that they use the character yi 弈 which later means "to play go" but which at that time may not have referred to go; and as these references only mention the game, but don't descibe it, it is not possible to rely on them. The earliest archeological evidence only goes back about 2,000 years. BabelStone (talk) 15:28, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Thomas Hyde

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You have added mention of Thomas Hyde's "De Circumveniendi Ludo Chinensium" to both the Go (board game) and History of Go pages, but I do not feel that it deserves special mention. For one, it is not really the first description in a European language, that would be the 1610 "Della entrata della Compagnia di Giesu e Christianita nell China" by Mateo Ricci. And furthermore, it can sadly also not be considered "detailed", as the text makes it evident that Hyde did not really understand the game. As such, Korschelts work remains the first "detailed description", and the first that gets the rules correct so that Western play could develop. For more on this, I can recommend the work of Jaap K. Blom originally published in Go World 27 and later included in The Go Players Almanac, which contains many scans of these old manuscripts. HermanHiddema (talk) 17:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC) I think that Hyde is the first detailed description (several pages), with illustrations of a board and how a stone is captured. The fact that Hyde does not fully understand the game is not relevant -- it does introduce the game to a European readership. But it doesn't bother me if you want to remove it. BabelStone (talk) 23:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC) My point is that the explanation of the rules is incomplete, and so although it does reach a European readership, it does not enable them to play the game. As such, although it is certainly more detailed than Ricci's earlier mention, it isn't much better. I think it would be good to mention Korschelt as the first "complete" description in the main Go article, and to expand the History of Go article to include mention of Ricci (as well as e.g. Leibniz). I will work on it when I get back from my holidays :-) HermanHiddema (talk) 07:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC) The reason that I mentioned Hyde is that the article originally implies that Go was unknown in the West before the late 19th century, and I think that it ought to at least mention that Go has been known (if not played) in the West for over 300 years. So I agree with any suggestion to expand the article to discuss early reference to Go. However I disagree with you that Hyde's description is not much better than Ricci's. I don't have Ricci's work to hand but iirc he only mentions the game briefly. Hyde devotes several pages to the game, and provides a drawing of a board, an illustration showing an "eye", and (badly written but legible) Chinese characters for some of the key terms. His description may not be good enough to allow readers to get a good enough understanding of the game to actually play it (but then many hours with the Brooklyn Go Club learning the fundamental rules and the complex etiquette of the game may not be enough either), but it is enough for readers to basically understand what the game is about, and to be able to recognise a game of Go if they saw it. I maintain that Hyde is the most important Western writer on Go in the 17th/18th centuries, and should be mentioned prominently. BabelStone (talk) 12:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC) The implication that the game was unknown in the west before Korschelt is certainly wrong, a more correct way to put this would be something like "Although descriptions of the game were known in the west since the early 17th century, the rules for the game were only introduced at the end of the 19th century, when...", etc. Ricci's passage is indeed brief (mentioning a board of 300 "rooms" played upon with black and white disk with the purpose of controlling more rooms), as those of many other writers in the 17th century (many basing their work on that of Ricci and Trigault). Hyde's is certainly more detailed, but the reason I didn't consider it it much "better" was because it fails to explain the rules. If I am not mistaken, the Hyde text in fact implies that players move their stones, only putting new ones on the board when they need them. So although Hyde is certainly worth mention as part of the 17th/18th century history of go, I wouldn't go as far as give him any special status as the "most important" writer on this subject. HermanHiddema (talk) 14:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC) I think "Although descriptions of the game were known in the west since the early 17th century, the rules for the game were only introduced at the end of the 19th century, when...", etc. is OK for the main page, but we should go into more detail on the History of Go page. I have just made a transcription of the De Circumveniendi Ludo Chinensium section of Hyde 1694, and put it on my web site so that people can judge for themselves whether it is of value or not. My Latin is not so good, so if anyone wants to help me with a translation of this text I would be most grateful. BabelStone (talk) 00:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC) Oh, and if we need a reference to support my statement about the importance of Hyde's description of Go, we could use A Collection of Qian Zhongshu's English Essays (2008) page 99. BabelStone (talk) 00:15, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Table of Unicode scripts

I just saw the table you added to Unicode scripts. That's a great resource. Its very helpful especially when the Wikipedia articles on a writing system does not match the Unicode chosen script name. But the other information is great to have all in one place too. Nice work! Indexheavy (talk) 07:44, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! BabelStone (talk) 14:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Re:Apostrophe in Wylie Transliteration

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Chris, do you know what the correct character is to use for the apostrophe in Wylie transliteration? The Wylie transliteration article uses an ordinary ASCII apostrophe, and I think that most articles that give Wylie transliteration of Tibetan names also use the plain ASCII apostrophe. However, the article on the 'Phags-pa script uses U+2019 (Right Single Quotation Mark), which I think is wrong --- although your reproduction of Wylie's original article also uses U+2019. For typographical correctness I would think that U+02BC (Modifier Letter Apostrophe) should be used, but I think that for Wikipedia a plain ASCII apostrophe (U+0027) is best. If you have any suggestions for the correct transliteration of the script name 'Phags-pa please add something to the 'Phags-pa script discussion. BabelStone (talk) 09:07, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Since it seems T.V. Wylie avoided any characters not available on an American typewriter keyboard, ASCII apostrophe / straight single quote (U+0027) may be correct. However when published I think his original HJOAS article was typeset with an apostrophe which, in the typesetting of the time is often indistinguishable from –or the same as– a right closing quotation mark. (I don't have the original here, but I know that I tried to make my copy of his article as close as I could to the original). Since ASCII apostrophe gets changed when using a word-processor with “smart quotes” turned on, imo it is best avoided when “Wylie” is used in articles destined to appear in print. Occasionally ASCII apostrophe has problems in Wikipedia where ' is a component in Wiki markup. Right single quotation mark also has problems since it can also unexpectedly get changed to a left single quotation mark by word-processors with automatic quotes turned on – even while doing search and replace. With Unicode U+02BC MODIFIER LETTER APOSTROPHE is probably the best choice for printed articles, since it is unlikely to get changed. But U+02BC it is not ideal where Wylie is being used as an input method since it is not easily available on most keyboards - probably best to stick with U+0027 in an IME. Where possible I think software designed to convert from Wylie to Unicode should try to handle all the different characters that might be used. As far as Unicode names, we used "-" in names of Tibetan characters to represent the character U+0F60 TIBETAN LETTER -A. Chris Fynn (talk) 10:16, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: Baduk

I fixed it, though I actually didn't break anything. i moved the dab page to Baduk 2 years ago and it was played around with earlier today. Wizardman 13:21, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. BabelStone (talk) 13:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Not a "minor edit"

Hi Babel,

I don't object to you removing the stuff about expensive stones from the Go game intro. You have a point, it's "out of scope." I am troubled tho that I didn't find the change on my watchlist page, because I watch the Go article. Did you perhaps mark it as a "minor edit"? If so, that was inappropriate.

kibi (talk) 17:11, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Strange, I have it on my watchlist, and it was not minor. Software glitch? HermanHiddema (talk) 18:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, very strange. I don't think I did anything unusual in the edit, and I certainly never try to hide my edits ... or make edits which I think would be controversial. BabelStone (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Li Fanwen

On April 12, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Li Fanwen, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Shubinator (talk) 21:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

List of languages by writing system‎s and Dyalexia

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you do not seem to have any knowledge of the links bewtween dyslexia and language and writing systems, which may not be your fault, but may be you should try to learn about these issues before deleting the work of others who understand these issues. dolfrog (talk) 10:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC) It's not a question of whether there any relationship between bewtween dyslexia and language and writing systems, but whether writing systems belong to the category Dyslexia. And it is my strong belief that it is an inappropriate category for List of languages by writing system. Dyslexia is obviously related to humans, but Human is not included in the category Dyslexia. BabelStone (talk) 11:25, 10 June 2009 (UTC) The neurological issues that can cause a human to be dyslexic vary depending on the Writing system a dyslexic individual is born into. The orthography of the writng system dictates the type of neurolgical process that causes the dyalexic symptom, the best researched examplke is the case of a boy who was bilingual in english and Japanese, and was only dyslexic in English. have a look at Dyslexia History section 1999 And with in each writing system each language varies in tis orthogaphy which again can influenc the ease at which a dyslexic may be able to access the written langauge see Dyslexia: Orthography so this is not about your opinion more about researched science, you may not like it but that is not what WIKI is about dolfrog (talk) 14:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

trying to find a solution to writing systems and dyslexia

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Thank you for adding the category again about me I am dyslexic, and I have had Auditory Processing Disorder(APD) diagnosed as the underlying cause of my dyslexic symptoms. Due to my APD I have word recall problems and poor sequencing skills, as well as poor langauge processing abilities both verbal and written. Which can be problems when working in a WIKI environment. Not trhough personal choice I have temporarily become editor of the WIKI dyslexia project, usually i just do the research and provide the information for other to edit and maintain the article, however the leading editors left the project for various reasons, and the article was way too long and repetitive, and the content did not match the supporting references in too many places. So for the last month I have been knee deep in research papers just rying to correct waht was on the existing page, before braeking it up into a main summary article with supporting specialist topic articles. Personally i usually find the WIKi enviroment too alien to my own communication disabilities that I have tended until now to avoid working on WIKi articles diresctly. Recent research, well 1999 but previously unknown to me, reveal a case of a boy who is bilingual speaking both Japanese and English but who dyslexic only in English. The reason for this seeming disparity is that ihe is able to process the logographic langauge system of Japanese but not the phoentic structures of the English Latin Alphabetic wrirng system. The cause of this would be the lack of neurologicla phonlogicla processing abilities, (and probably in my opinion auditory processing disorder) writing systems are the visual notation of speech, so they have both visual and auditory information processing components skills required to understand the meaning of the written code. And the orthography of each langaue will require a different mictute of these neurlogical abilities. At the same time teachers will need to understand the skills required to learn to read these writing systems and the different orthographies with in these writing systems. And which nuerologicla skills will require development for non dyslexic readers and how to recognise the nuerologicla problems that dyslexics may have witha specific langauge orthography both with a writing system and between different writing system, espercially if there are areas of overlap. I see from your own article that you are from the UK, like me, and that you are a linguist, so may be we should be helping each other from our different areas of specialisation to help other understand these issues more. dolfrog (talk) 23:32, 10 June 2009 (UTC) I guess this should be discussed on the Mediation section you started rather than separately here and on my page. -- Evertype·✆ 08:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC) Agreed! I really don't like article-specific discussion to take place on user talk pages, and I will not respond to any further discussion of this issues here. BabelStone (talk) 08:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I award you, and invite you to an exclusive forum

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Hi, my name is Eric Connor. I want to thank you for giving liubo so much deserved attention. I am the one who uploaded the images already seen in the article before you added your very useful diagrams (I personally took the photos of that Eastern Han model at the Metropolitan Museum of Art). Your contribution is very impressive, and I was wondering if you would like to join an exclusive online history forum where like-minded academics such as yourself congregate to translate Chinese sources into English and discuss scholarly published works. It is not yet open to the public and as of yet only has 43 members. We are a sordid bunch of college students, college professors, antique collectors, archaeologists, authors, etc. I hope you will consider this offer. Email me at iamericconnor@yahoo.com or at guitargod7_5@hotmail.com, either one is ok. Cheers and thank you so much for showing Wiki care!--Pericles of AthensTalk 13:45, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Thank you so much for your kind comments and for my first barnstar (yay!). I have been watching the Liubo article for some time now, so I am aware of your involvement in the article (and of course I am familiar with some of the impressive work you have done on Wikipedia). I have been collecting Liubo pictures for quite a few years now, but unfortunately none of them are suitable for use on Wikipedia, so I'm really glad that you were able to upload the Met pics. BabelStone (talk) 22:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Well, your contributions to liubo are certainly impressive, but what I should have mentioned was something much more impressive: your specialization in Manchu, Mongolian, Khitan, and the Tibetan Phagspa script. You would be a very cherished member of our forum if you chose to join, since our members are actively translating materials from various Han Chinese sources (mainly 24 histories, but also many other texts) and would love to work with translations from non-Han-Chinese works as well. If you choose to join, I'll share the links to the forum via email. Cheers!--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC) I've emailed you about the forum. BabelStone (talk) 22:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Excellent! I've given you a response as well. Yes, I've been quite busy on Wikipedia for the past two years. My latest achievement was getting the various Han Dynasty articles nominated and passed as a featured topic. I'm currently compiling notes for a total rewrite of Ancient Egyptian literature. If you're interested in the pictures I've taken or uploaded to Wikipedia, you might find yourself to be lost for a couple of hours browsing through this page of mine (lol). Cheers!--Pericles of AthensTalk 23:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC) Hi Andrew. Just dropping by to tell you (if you haven't noticed already!) that your account has been validated at the forum. Have fun! Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 14:56, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Tis the day

I got my first barnstar this morning too (well yesterday by now), . -- Evertype·✆ 23:01, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that's some coincidence -- congrats! I've vaguely noticed all the furore over in your corner of the Wikipedia, I really don't envy you. I've been keeping nice and quiet with The Hobbit today -- please let me know when the Irish translation comes out. BabelStone (talk) 23:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

DYK for Liubo

On July 12, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Liubo, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 09:36, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

User boxes

The Orkhon user box should be Old Turkic, I believe... -- Evertype·✆ 08:18, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Maybe, I don't have strong feelings on the matter ... if you want to change "Orkhon" to "Old Turkic" simply modify Template:User iso15924/name accordingly. BabelStone (talk) 11:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, I wonder if it is worthwhile adding in all the ISO 15924 codes to Template:User iso15924/name, Template:User iso15924/character (you probably know which the best character to use for each missing script is) and Template:User iso15924/data-table in advance rather than waiting for them to be added (sometimes badly) piecemeal (like I did with Phags-pa and Yi yesterday). BabelStone (talk) 11:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Duke Cheng

I am doing a little project using the Chenggong section of the Zuozhuan, wanted to check something and found there was no wiki article. When i try to look for an article and don't find it, I start one. Thanks for your help.

ello

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I just recently installed Ubuntu and I am having a challenge finding an input method that inputs Tibetan script via EWTS somewhat like the functionality of TISE for Windows. Would you recommend anything? I can't figure out how to make SCIM work. I have BabelPad installed on Ubuntu which kinda works through Wine though I can't get any of the help or instructions. I wonder if that is a limitation of Wine. I type Wylie in BabelPad and convert it to Tibetan but when I paste it in Wikipedia it is invisible. I have installed Tibetan Machine Uni and Jomolhari for Ubuntu and see Tibetan script in some Wikimedia pages. Any help would be wonderful. I am a newby wanting to progress a learning Tibetan curriculum on Wikiversity. I transcribe my learnings as lessons for others that follow. B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 18:26, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Can you convert some Wylie to Tibetan using BabelPad, and then paste it into my talk page here? BabelStone (talk) 22:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC) གནསལུག I pasted it in the line above and it looks invisible to me.སI appreciate your help and time. B9 hummingbird hovering (talk • contribs) 12:29, 23 August 2009 (UTC) I see GNASLUG (with no tsheg) in Tibetan, so if this is what you think you pasted in then there is no problem at that end. If you cannot see the Tibetan you pasted in, then it must be some incompatibility between your system and Wikipedia. Check Help:Multilingual_support_(Indic)#Check_for_existing_support to see how your system renders the sample Tibetan script, and if it is invisible I can only suggest asking for help at Help_talk:Multilingual_support_(Indic). Sorry for not being able to be of more help. BabelStone (talk) 13:37, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Ashtamangala

Hey mate, I would really appreciate your assistance. When you have time, please just run your eyes over the Tibetan template for each of the Eight Auspicious Symbols for the abovementioned article, ensuring any of my errors in the Tibetan script are repaired. If you cannot repair then please delete the item. I am still learning the script and the EWTS input modality of SCIM is new to me. I am not sure who else to ask.
Thank you
B9 hummingbird hovering ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

No problem. I had a look and corrected a couple of minor mistakes. BabelStone (talk) 21:49, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

encyclopedic

Thanks for the removal of "encyclopedic" from UTF-8 - you had asked "removing stray "encyclopedic" -- was this meant to be a template?" Hatting as unencyclopedic seems like a good idea. The stray word was because I wanted to double-check the spelling and so copy/pasted "encyclopedic" into the body to see if there was a red link, updated the edit summary, and forgot about the "encyclopedic." :-) --Marc Kupper|talk 06:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Huge_outdoor_Go-board-in-ancient-Fenghuang-city

Hiya Babelstone. I notice you often keep your eye on the main Go page Go_(game) - good on ya.

I'm rather rusty on WP, but wonder if I might draw your attention to a paragraph I've added to its Talk page, viz. Talk:Go_(game)#Huge_outdoor_Go-board-in-ancient-Fenghuang-city?

I hope you'd agree the photo of the outdoor board is great, and worth sharing with fellow Go-enthusiasts? If you know somebody who may have time and ability to link that sight or photos into Wikipedia, I'd be very grateful. Happy Go-playing. Arigatou, Trafford09 (talk) 15:31, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Mercia Project change

Metabaronic has redefined the scope and changed the name of the Mercia Wikiproject to included the rest of Anglo-Saxon England, please consider directing your support again to Wikiproject Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms. Sadads (talk) 00:56, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Just in case you haven't noticed, we have moved to a project page Wikipedia:WikiProject Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms. Sadads (talk) 13:20, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Stephen Wootton Bushell

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for creating this article. I'm a Chinese history fan and am so glad to learn about this fascinating figure.--达伟 (talk) 17:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the thanks, I'm glad you liked the article. BabelStone (talk) 21:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

WPASK Assessment Drive

Hey all, our assessment process is raring for moving out, and just needs a little bit of help from you. First and foremost, our Quality and Importance scales need to be completed per consensus, please check them out at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Anglo-Saxon_Kingdoms/Assessment and comment. Next, we have, as of my most recent assessments, 1122 articles that have not been assessed. All I ask is that each and every one of us assess ~10 articles each day you get on Wikipedia to speed up the process and let us really know what we have in our scope. Remember, we have Category, Template, Redirect and Disambiguation classes along with our more traditional stub through FA ratings, please use all of them and look for pages which fall within our scope. Thanks for all the help, Sadads (talk) 22:02, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Frome hoard DYK

I've just noticed that the Frome Hoard DYK isn't due to go on the main page until 1am tomorrow morning, to be replaced at 7am. I think the timing's a bit of a shame seeing as those most interested in reading it will be in bed and in all likeliness miss it completely! – B.hotep •talk• 07:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I mentioned this to Rodw (talk · contribs) as well. By the way, I couldn't find anything to add to Shrewsbury Hoard – well done! :) – B.hotep •talk• 09:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I saw that too, and thought of asking for it to be rescheduled ... but then thought that maybe that would be making an unnecessary fuss. But if you think the same way, maybe it would be worth asking for a more appropriate time slot.BabelStone (talk) 09:58, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I think the answer's most likely to be the same as Peter Vardy got when he mentioned it before. (see Rod's talk). – B.hotep •talk• 10:00, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Shrewsbury Hoard

Hi, I've nominated Shrewsbury Hoard to be included in the DYK section, you can find the nomination here if you can think of a better hook. Thanks Smartse (talk) 20:49, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, glad you thought it was good enough. BabelStone (talk) 20:51, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

It's sourced and long enough so therefore is good enough - it got me a bit confused at first though when I thought it was about the Frome Hoard! DYK that there was an earlier hoard called the Shrewsbury Hoard (see this)? It might be worth adding one line to the article about it. Smartse (talk) 20:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Yep, there are so many hoards that there is enough to keep a small task force busy for a few years. But I think that it is definitely a worthwhile topic for to work on. BabelStone (talk) 21:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Frome Hoard

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:03, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

From this to this and to DYK in five days! Well done. Pleasure working with you. – B.hotep •talk• 08:41, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, it was good working with you and Rodw and everyone else who contributed. BabelStone (talk) 00:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Seax of Beagnoth

Not sure I can help you. To be honext I remember looking at this and thinking it would never to big enough for a DYK article! How wrong. You've done brilliantly. I was thinking you may go for Frome Hoard for GA being as you have Hoxne as a model? Victuallers (talk) 20:56, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. I've never done a GA or FA, so I might just nominate the Seax and see what happens. As to Frome, I think it'll be worth expanding once more details become available, but I guess that won't be until next year. The Staffordshire Hoard is one article that may benefit from the Hoxne experience, and could aim for GA or better once the publications start flowing. BabelStone (talk) 21:23, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Maps

Hi: I'll fix Silchester on the map. There are three things you can do to avoid clashes a) look at the em value (it adjusts height) b) look at position value - you can have text to left or right etc c) You can add two together ... e.g. Hoxne & Eye where they are basically in the same place. Hope that helps Victuallers (talk) 16:45, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I've worked that out now (see latest edit), but it is a real pain to do manually (half a dozen previews to get it right). BabelStone (talk) 17:23, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Trout!

"WP:WHACK" redirects here. You may be looking for WP:Wikipedia is not Whac-A-Mole (WP:WHAC).

Not to be confused with Cod throwing.

Whacking with a wet trout or trouting is a common practice on Wikipedia when experienced editors slip up and make a silly mistake. It, along with sentencing to the village stocks, is used to resolve one-off instances of seemingly silly behavior amongst normally constructive community members, as opposed to long term patterns of disruptive edits, which earn warnings and blocks.

Example

Whack!

The above is a WikiTrout (Oncorhynchus macrowikipediensis), used to make subtle adjustments to the clue levels of experienced Wikipedians.

To whack a user with a wet trout, simply place {{trout}} on their talk page.

Please re-review Manufacturing in Hong Kong. It was moved to the mainspace on 16 July; I started writing in my userspace on 2 July. When I finished the article and moved it, DYKCheck also shows that it's OK. Kayau Voting IS evil 09:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Shrewsbury Hoard

-- Cirt (talk) 12:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Chairman Mao badge

What an excellent article, and fun to read. Congratulations! Drmies (talk) 15:21, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I was so surprised that the article did not already exist, even as a stub, that I felt I had to do something. BabelStone (talk) 15:26, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

You run into surprises, sometimes. I was somewhat surprised to find that Julie von Massow, who started a worldwide (well...) prayer movement in the 19th century, didn't have an article, not even on the German wiki. I gotta say, though, your article looks really nice too, and I envy you! Later, Drmies (talk) 15:54, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

All Mao badges on Commons have been nominated for deletion by User:Sandstein. If anyone wants to participate in the deletion discussion, please check out Commons:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Mao_Badge_12.jpg. BabelStone (talk) 11:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Glad to see you got this sorted. I'm useless with image copyright status, so sorry I couldn't assist. :) – B.hotep •talk• 23:04, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's not sorted until the deletion discussion is closed, and I hope it closes soon otherwise the pic can't be used in the DYK, and I think it would get a lot more views with it that without. BabelStone (talk) 00:10, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I thought it was all sorted. Surely Sandstein can finish the discussion – either a withdrawal as the nominator, or a closure as a Commons administrator? – B.hotep •talk• 18:45, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. Commons:Commons:Deletion_requests states that everything except obvious speedy deletes "should be left until at least seven days have elapsed". But at the current rate the DYK queue is moving there's still plenty of time. BabelStone (talk) 21:56, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely. I now know why the DYK limit is 5 days. Because it takes at least 5x that to get on the main page! That's fine by me, though. Plenty of time for fine tuning. I will say (as a Wikipedia admin) that sometimes the deletion discussion time regulations are ignored, but I've heard Commons is a whole different kettle of proverbial fish. – B.hotep •talk• 22:04, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment on the picture at DYK, but it looks like it may take weeks before the deletion discussion closes (I asked Sandstein, but he said he could not close it because he initiated it), and so it has been put in the DYK queue without a picture (poor quality b/w picture of Henry Nicholas Greenwell instead ... yuk), which is a shame as I think the shiny picture would have attracted a lot of hits. BabelStone (talk) 08:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for List of hoards in Britain

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for List of hoards in Ireland

The DYK project (nominate) 18:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

WP:3K

• I suppose you've noticed WP:3K, though it's pretty quiet at the moment... • Ling.Nut 01:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer, but I tend to avoid 3K articles as I'm too close to the subject. I watch Romance of the Three Kingdoms and it seems to me that very few people are interested in the actual book, and most people just want to add more manga and video game trivia, which is a shame as the article is missing so much important information -- the history of the book and different versions of the text is hardly touched upon. BabelStone (talk) 07:39, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

The wikiproject brought Battle of Red Cliffs to FA, and deemphasized the gaming aspect as much as possible. Anyhow, maybe one day we'll work together on something. later! • Ling.Nut 07:49, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Chairman Mao badge

The DYK project (nominate) 00:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Well deserved even though the picture wasn't included, and hope to see it at WP:DYKSTATS soon. – B.hotep •talk• 00:09, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I went to bed early last night and missed it -- my DYKs always seem to end up on the UK night watch. BabelStone (talk) 07:35, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

A disappointing 3.9k. It's hard to get more than 5,000 without a picture -- I am amazed that Copper Bull got almost 10,000 views with no picture or mention of sex in the hook. BabelStone (talk) 09:12, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Me too ... (I wonder if its a bug in the stats). Meanwhile maybe we can think of a reword of below with the word concubine in it??

• ... that the British Museum's copy of the Chinese Admonitions Scroll (pictured) is missing two scenes which are recorded in a museum in the Forbidden City?

Do reword the hook. The article is a treat. etc Victuallers (talk) 08:14, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the nom -- I had been thinking about a suitable DYK hook but just couldn't come up with one that was worthy of the scroll, which was why I had delayed self-nomming. If only some of the ladies were just a little less dressed ... BabelStone (talk) 22:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Thx 4 nom .... I add you as a co-author as you should be creditted for all the copyeditting you did. Victuallers (talk) 11:47, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Your GA

Pleased to see you have a GA. I was particularly impressed as I remember looking at the article in its first few days and thinking that it would never get the 1500 chars to be a DYK nom. Well done. Also very pleased to see the 30,800 views for the reindeer. So it is possible to get views without a sexual reference! Cheers

Oh, I don't know, reindeer can be fairly enticing. Did I just say that out loud... Erm, anyway, Digging for Britain is on tonight - featuring the Frome Hoard I believe. – B.hotep •talk• 16:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Admonitions Scroll

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

James Conder

Hi BS, Ipswich Hoard is in for DYK, but I saw you had discovered a better hook. I have expanded (5x?) James Conder to make a better double hook. Something like

DYK ... that James Conder who collected and and made his own coins (pictured) never knew he had a Ipswich Hoard buried beneath his doorstep?

I'm off on a wikibreak. Can you see what you can do? Victuallers (talk) 09:16, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

I did the best I could, but I'm off on a wikibreak in a few minutes as well, and it was a bit of rush -- picture of token should probably be modified to show only one side but I don't have time to do that. BabelStone (talk) 10:01, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Witham Shield

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Sæbø sword

The DYK project (nominate) 06:04, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Shame the view checker is on the fritz again! – B.hotep •talk• 08:59, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Totally fried as far as I can tell -- all the pre-August stats have disappeared as well. BabelStone (talk) 01:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Good job getting Arild to re-licence the picture, thank you for your efforts!

Thanks, and thank you for creating the derivative images for the article (which was something I thought needed doing, but did not have time to do myself) -- the two juxtaposed images of the inscription are just what was needed. I'm on a wikibreak with only occasional internet access so I won't be doing much editing for the next week or so, but I think the article needs to address the other side of the blade as well. BabelStone (talk) 01:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Ipswich Hoard

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:02, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Khanhoo

Hello Babelstone, I recently stumbled upon a major expansion on the article Liubo. I wonder if you could help me find any historical information on the game Khanhoo in Chinese language once you can speak Chinese and are part of that Wiki comunity. Any reference regarding this game would be also greatly appreciated. Actually I've been thinking about expanding the article a bit and wonder if it could be blessed with your magic touch as well. Regards, Krenakarore (talk) 12:20, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't help at the present time as I am on a semi-wikibreak, and know nothing about Chinese card games. BabelStone (talk) 20:49, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Helmets

Fancy a double nom? You have the "in the news" and I suspect I have the picture? Victuallers (talk) 16:17, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I thought about that as well -- go ahead and change the DYK nom for the Crosby Garret helmet to a double nom. How about:

• ... that the Crosby Garrett Helmet, discovered in May 2010, has a figurine of a winged griffin on top of it, whereas the Ribchester Helmet, discovered in 1796, may originally have had a sphinx attached to it?

BabelStone (talk) 18:26, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

If you hold until Oct 7th then the logical hook is "on auction today". I suggest you run with double hook now and investigate "in the news" in parallel... Victuallers (talk) 16:00, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, you're right, I've withdrawn the suggestion. Could even do a triple nom with Newstead Helmet. BabelStone (talk) 20:09, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Good idea if it has no picture. Actually I thought! (ie I may be wrtong) that there were three Newstead helmets? Victuallers (talk) 16:07, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

There are three and half Newstead helmets, all described in the article, but the one with the face mask seems to be generally referred to as the *the* "Newstead Helmet". BabelStone (talk) 23:05, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Crosby Garrett Helmet

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:02, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Ribchester Helmet

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:02, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Newstead Helmet

— Rlevse • Talk • 06:03, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Ain't and amn't

Would you look into the naming dispute here? -- Evertype·✆ 08:22, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, I did take a look yesterday, but did not want to get involved in a naming dispute that is outside my wiki-interests. But as you pressed me I have added my opinion ... which I'm afraid may not be to your liking. BabelStone (talk) 13:52, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm stubborn and all, but your suggestion with Angr's title would make a better article, so thanks. An outside opinion was useful. -- Evertype·✆ 06:06, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Waterloo Helmet

— Rlevse • Talk • 12:02, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Meyrick Helmet

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Categories

I saw Category:Archaeological artefacts from the River Thames. I was adding to Metal-detector yesterday, & I thought a list or category of m-d finds would be useful - maybe just UK initially, as that is where they all seem to be. Perhaps a category, as we have the hoards list already, which covers many of them. Johnbod (talk) 16:55, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a very good idea. I think a category is more suitable than a list -- how about Category:Metal detecting finds or Category:Archaeological artefacts found by metal detecting? BabelStone (talk) 18:42, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Or Category:Archaeological finds by metal detector is shorter - maybe "in the UK" initially, then with a general parent, & so on. Johnbod (talk) 03:08, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

There definitely should by scope for "by country" classification, but at the moment I cannot think of any non-UK metal detecting finds with articles. Category:Archaeological finds by metal detector in the United Kingdom is still rather long-winded, so maybe Category:Metal detecting finds in the United Kingdom would be better (especially as potentially there could be significant metal detecting finds of non-archaeological items); but I'm not fussed, so go ahead and create the category with whatever name you feel is best and we can start populating it. BabelStone (talk) 11:28, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I've gone with Category:Metal detecting finds in the United Kingdom, but feel free to rename the category if you think it is not the best name. BabelStone (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Your contributed article, 19730 in archaeology

Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, 19730 in archaeology. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - 1973 in archaeology. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will to continue helping improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at 1973 in archaeology - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think that the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Paste _{Let’s have a chat.} 20:58, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

My bad -- I seem to be making editing mistakes all over the place today. BabelStone (talk) 21:21, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Akan Drum

I've put this in Queue 1, it should show on MP at 1pm 4Oct, UTC. Lead with pic. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:56, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! BabelStone (talk) 01:16, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

• - thanks for that BS. Two points. 1. I created some stuff for the Russian Revolutionary Plate - but without an image its not interesting. However, I did find a free image for another plate which I have put in commons and used "the stuff" to illustrate Mikhail Mikhailovich Adamovich which is at DYK (Oct 2nd). Could you check over the license? I'm guessing a plate is OK even though he died in 1947 as it isn't the original design (but I don't know!) and then I've used a "press image" and presumed the license as attrib only. What do you think? and 2. Are you going to this GLAM conference at the BM? Victuallers (talk) 11:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

1. Almost certainly not OK for Commons, unfortunately, but you'd best ask User:Sandstein because he'll be the one who'll take it to deletion if it does infringe anyone's theoretical copyright.

2. I thought about it, but I've used up my holiday allocation for this year, and so it would be difficult for me to take a day off work for it; and anyway I need to try to spend less time on Wikipedia and more time on my primary interests (currently the computer encoding of the Tangut script). 12:19, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

A plate would normally be done as "work for hire" with all the rights belonging to the factory not the designer. That it is not the original design is not important - it could still be under copyright. I think in the UK it wouldn't be, but in Russia who knows. Normally corporate rights expire after a fixed term from "publication", typically before artist-style rights. Johnbod (talk) 12:28, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for adding the much better ref to Gymnophyllum wardi and for approving the DYK hook. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 23:17, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. Thanks for the pretty flower. BabelStone (talk) 23:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

DYK for Wandsworth Shield

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:02, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Admonitions Scroll

The article Admonitions Scroll you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Admonitions Scroll for things which need to be addressed. Redtigerxyz ^Talk 09:15, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Showing Unicode

I start a fresh new thread about this.
So the template {{unicode}} and <class ="unicode"> are no covering enough. That is very bad, because that is the only thing they are supposed to do. We could create a sort of {{unicode2}} that does the non-BMP characters. That one would have different list of fonts families (maybe only by sequence). But on second thought I still do not trust this. It smells like a compromise: there are no fonts that cover this well enough. We'd still loose browsers (even major ones) that don't show want we expect. It's too much, eh, looking for an average.
Why not try this: we add a parameter that specifies the Unicode block name. Depending on that block name, we should find a font or font family that covers that block best, over all browsers. So we prescribe the font block-specific.
Details:  • This could work for the template (say {{unicode2}}), but howto do this with class?  • Instead of block name, a something else might be used. Like 1st code point. Or script name.
Worth trying? Do you know these fonts? -DePiep (talk) 20:51, 10 October 2010 (UTC)