Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/lustiger seth: Difference between revisions
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#'''Oppose''' per the rationales of Fvw, Tanthalas39, Aitias and this "I won't use the rights to do anything, which has nothing to do with the SBL." --[[User talk:Sandahl|'''Sandahl''']] 16:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC) |
#'''Oppose''' per the rationales of Fvw, Tanthalas39, Aitias and this "I won't use the rights to do anything, which has nothing to do with the SBL." --[[User talk:Sandahl|'''Sandahl''']] 16:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC) |
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#:Sorry, English is not my first language. Perhaps that quoted sentence can be misunderstood. I did not mean the "rights to do anything", I meant "I will use the rights for SBL-related stuff only". However, I repeated in the response to question 4 what I wanted to say by this sentence. -- [[User:Lustiger seth|seth]] ([[User talk:Lustiger seth|talk]]) 17:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC) |
#:Sorry, English is not my first language. Perhaps that quoted sentence can be misunderstood. I did not mean the "rights to do anything", I meant "I will use the rights for SBL-related stuff only". However, I repeated in the response to question 4 what I wanted to say by this sentence. -- [[User:Lustiger seth|seth]] ([[User talk:Lustiger seth|talk]]) 17:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC) |
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#'''Oppose'''. Sorry, I am German myself but I know why I work here. De-wiki is very different from en-wiki and while I do not want to imply that the candidate would make mistakes deliberately, there is a very good chance he will make them, not being familiar with the project at all. I think our admins here should be able to handle SBL just fine without having to "outsource" it to de-wiki admins. Regards '''[[User:SoWhy|<span style="font-variant:small-caps; color: #AC0000">So</span>]][[User talk:SoWhy|<span style="font-variant:small-caps; color: #1F3F53">Why</span>]]''' 17:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 17:40, 18 December 2008
Voice your opinion (talk page) (63/19/1); Scheduled to end 22:30, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
lustiger_seth (talk · contribs) – Hi! I'm admin at de-wiki and temp admin at meta-wiki. At meta-wiki and at my home wiki I help to take care of the SBLs (spam blacklists). Apart from that I have a toolserver account and developed a tool to ease searching the SBL logfiles. However, at my home wiki I do all the normal admin's stuff, too. The reason I want to get the extended rights in en-wiki is to improve your WP:SBL like I did at de-wiki and meta. Some more details you can get at WP:SBL#wrong_syntax_and_useless_escaping.
Although I have an account here since 2004 (Before SUL came I was user:wiki_seth) I have a very, very small edit count here in en-wiki (<60), but I won't use the rights to do anything, which has nothing to do with the SBL. -- seth (talk) 22:11, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
User:Balloonman asked me to go more into detail:
I would like to have writing access to
- User:XLinkBot/RevertList
- User:XLinkBot/RevertList_requests/log
- MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist
- MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist
- MediaWiki_talk:Spam-whitelist/Log
- MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist/log
because I want to
- increase the performance of the Spamlists by deleting redundant entries and grouping regexps
- repair false entries, see e.g. user talk:XLinkBot/RevertList#wrong_syntax, WP:SBL#Troubleshooting_and_problems
- repair false log entries, this is also important for the mentioned tool on the toolserver, which is used in meta and de-wiki already.
- help in defending linkspam, if there's time for that.
The length of the SBL increases day by day, and the bigger it is, the longer it takes everybody to edit any page (when placing a link), because everytime someone places a link, the spam blacklist extension will be run and parsing the SBL. Using some regexp tricks to compress the SBL gives a little speed-up. I am able to do some of those optimizations, and I did that at meta and de-wiki already.
Additional to that for human beings it is not easy to search the logfiles for blocking/whitelisting reasons. I wrote a tool for that, and so it would be great, if I could edit the logs, in case somebody made wrong entries. (Otherwise I would have to write many work-arounds for my log-searching tool, because of bugs, which actually belong to the log.) -- seth (talk) 00:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Questions for the candidate
Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:
- 1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?
- A: WP:SBL only.
- 2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?
- A: WP:SBL will be the best contribs. ;-) My contribs will increase the performance of the SBL a bit.
- 3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
- A: No edits -> No stress. :-)
- Additional question from NuclearWarfare
- 4. To alleviate some of the concerns of the opposing voters, will you agree to submit a reconfirmation RfA if you wish to move to other admin areas? (Enforced by desysopping if you don't comply?)
- A. Yes, of course. Apart from that we could limit the adminship to 3 months, if you like. After that time I would ask some bureaucrat to de-admin me (and perhaps start a new RfA).
General comments
- See lustiger_seth's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.
- Links for lustiger_seth: Lustiger_seth (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/lustiger_seth before commenting.
Discussion
- I closed this as WP:NOTNOW and believe that is the right move, but decided to get more input and to ask Seth for more input about what he wants to do. I'm doing this because he is apparently an admin on two other projects and claims a need where there is overlap here. I've asked him to come here and explain what he wants and why he needs the tools a little more. He did respond on his german account, so I am confident this is the same Seth.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 23:13, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Please see this which will show it's the same user. --Kanonkas : Talk 23:23, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- OK, I went into detail. If you need more information, please ask. -- seth (talk) 00:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- For the "not now" and "why are people supporting w/ no contribs?" questions and opposes, I submit to you this: the supports aren't actually looking at just his 50 edits on en-wiki and saying "those are good enough to give him the bit". We are taking into account the fact that he is a sysop on the 2nd largest language wiki w/ 10k edits there. We are also taking into account a specialist request to fix something on a protected page here. I know we have lots of policies and guidelines and restrictions, but remember that it used to just be someone on the mailing list or irc saying "op me" and people did it. This is a low risk appointment with a reasonable upside. What would it say about the project's ability to overcome inertia if we were to let this request languish and fail when there is clearly no need for it to do so? Protonk (talk) 03:32, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I find this argument completely unpersuasive. This is a WP:NOTNOW and a very premature case. Adminship is not AGF-ed, it is earned by a record of contributions on this project. Yes, this is a specialist request and all that, but once the user becomes an admin here, on en-wiki, he/she will have all the rights that other admins have including performing all the adminny actions in all the adminny areas. The norms, policies and procedures here, on en-wiki, are very different from other Wikipedia projects and any candidate, no matter how experienced on other Wikiprojects, needs to demonstrate sufficient proficiency in dealing with en-wiki policies and procedures to be given the bit here. Not only do we not have such en-wiki experience evidence (since the candidate has only 42 edits here), but we are actually not in any position to judge how good a job the user is doing as an admin on the other projects (particularly de-wiki). I really wish people get off their rhetorical horses and apply some common sense here. Nsk92 (talk) 03:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Protonk's position (and mine) is common sense if we trust seth's word to stay only at the SBL. Nsk92's position is common sense if we don't know enough about seth to trust his word. I choose to trust his word, not so much because of AGF, but because he's put in a lot of time and energy to the project (just on different languages; we're all the same project) to demonstrate that good faith would be well placed. Like I said, I'd oppose strongly if he was asking to be a "normal" sysop. He's not, and so the only downside is if my trust is misplaced and he starts blocking/deleting/protecting other stuff. In the very unlikely event that this happened, it would be much easier to desysop him for that than to desysop someone who passed a conventional RFA. I have no problem with your oppose if you can't bring yourself to trust him, due to not knowing him sufficiently. A position I disagree with, but respect. But implying that only an oppose vote can be based on common sense is a little rhetorical flourish all its own. --barneca (talk) 04:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, but I find this argument completely unpersuasive. This is a WP:NOTNOW and a very premature case. Adminship is not AGF-ed, it is earned by a record of contributions on this project. Yes, this is a specialist request and all that, but once the user becomes an admin here, on en-wiki, he/she will have all the rights that other admins have including performing all the adminny actions in all the adminny areas. The norms, policies and procedures here, on en-wiki, are very different from other Wikipedia projects and any candidate, no matter how experienced on other Wikiprojects, needs to demonstrate sufficient proficiency in dealing with en-wiki policies and procedures to be given the bit here. Not only do we not have such en-wiki experience evidence (since the candidate has only 42 edits here), but we are actually not in any position to judge how good a job the user is doing as an admin on the other projects (particularly de-wiki). I really wish people get off their rhetorical horses and apply some common sense here. Nsk92 (talk) 03:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sprechen Sie bitte mit mir auf meiner Diskussionsseite. Ich kann in der Lage sein zu helfen. ShoesssS Talk 06:17, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- For the benefit of those who don't know what metawiki temporary adminship is, it's basically what it says on the tin. A user requests adminship on meta, there's a discussion until consensus becomes clear, which usually lasts a few days. Bureaucrats on meta have the ability to remove admin status as well as grant it, hence why it is more plausible over there. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 11:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Support
- What an odd request. I will however support based on good contributions in your home wiki which you can hopefully take here. Garden. 23:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Unrestricted, and not any other kind of support, moral or otherwise Interesting request, and I see no reason not to trust him. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 23:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Assuming good faith here since I have no idea who you are, or what you do, but hey. An admin on two other projects, no reason to see why you can't do well here too. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 23:47, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Tentativesupport, pending confirmation that he is not insane on de.wiki or meta. I'm tentatively supporting, rather than waiting, because I have a bad feeling about how this is going to go down, and I want to do what I can to slow it down. Assuming everything is in order at de. and meta., why not trust a long-term supporter of the overall project in his attempt to improve our corner of it? I would oppose a request to be a full-fledged admin here, as our culture is likely significantly different. But I see no reason not to trust his promise to stay in the SBL and help us there. --barneca (talk) 23:53, 17 December 2008 (UTC)- As Majorly is vouching for his work at Meta, I'll remove the "tentative" part. --barneca (talk) 00:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support: Above link confirms identity on de-wiki/meta. Unless there is some dark secret at .de or meta, +sysop flags on two major projects demonstrates all of the trust I need. Welcome aboard. Lazulilasher (talk) 00:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Addendum: we need more emphasis placed on eradicating spam from the project. His application indicates a strong desire to complete these tasks; and, others have testified to his activities on our sister projects. This additional information, in conjunction with what I've written above, moves me to Strongly support. Lazulilasher (talk) 00:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support: I would be quite happy to endorse this request. Nick (talk) 00:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Seth is extremely helpful on Meta-wiki, where he spends most of his time dealing with the global spam blacklist. If he is trusted to block a site globally, he should be trusted to do so here. Nobody should care about how many edits he's made, it whether he'll do a good job. Majorly talk 00:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Edit count doesn't matter in a situation like this. –Juliancolton Happy Holidays 00:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support per Laz. // roux 00:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Per Majorly. The Helpful One 00:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Majorly usually does seem to come up with the extremely simple support argument... — Preceding unsigned comment added by R (talk • contribs)
- Support Per Majorly Jake Wartenbergtalk 00:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- One could make the argument that a general lack of edits would be a killer at RfA unless under exceptional circumstances. This candidate is requesting adminship under exceptional circumstances. The candidate clearly has experience with Wikipedia - admin over at another Wiki and meta - and intends only to help with the spam blacklist and not bother with anything else - which alleviates any concern regarding whether or not process is different in other Wiki's, and if this candidate would potentially misuse the mop here on that basis. Opposing this candidate for a relative detail such as edit count seems somewhat pedantic (this is in no way any disrespect to those opposing, whose opinions are valid and, indeed, raises points about a very geniune concern - however, as I see it, edit count is a redundant measure of this particular candidate, who is clearly experienced). Master&Expert (Talk) 01:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support. If he's trusted to blacklist on a global scale, he's definitely trusted to blacklist here on the English Wikipedia. DiverseMentality 01:01, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support per Majorly.--chaser - t 01:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Reasonable request, trusted user on de-wiki, I think I understand the need. Townlake (talk) 01:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Fear not specialists! Your request to monitor WB:SPL is reasonable, and WP will be better for your work. While 50 edits is pretty weird, I think we should be looking at de and meta for his work. FlyingToaster 01:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support - Allow me to break this down - having +sysop on two projects gives you trust. Maintenance work does not require a ton of policy knowledge - and it is likely that very little in the sort of maintenance he wants to do differs in execution from de. I trust him to do as his nomination says and not use the rights for anything other than maintaining the SBL. Whilst I do trust the user, since other decisions would require much more policy knowledge than it does to maintain the SBL I would ask that his statement of "[not] do[ing] anything, which has nothing to do with the SBL" is enforced. To close - absolutely yes. No reason not to trust user. — neuro(talk) 01:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support He's stated his scope, and will be useful in the rather underwatched area he has chosen to work in. His contribs on other wikis are solid and demonstrate trustworthiness. Orderinchaos 01:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support. As I see it, Iustiger has shown himself to be a trustworthy admin at both meta and de:. He's asking for the tools so he can work in a very specialised area that isn't really being covered on en; I firmly believe that we should make exceptions in cases where there is a clear benefit to the project. I am more than happy to accept his work at de: and meta as evidence of his trustworthiness and ability in his area of work. Rje (talk) 01:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Per Majorly and the notion that specialization is not just for ants. ++Lar: t/c 02:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support User definitely deserves access. Looks like he would be a big help to the project, and absolutely no reason to believe he would abuse. – Alex43223 T | C | E 02:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support - specialized area + admin on two other projects. Trustworthy. VX!~~~ 02:07, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Specialized admin, net benefit to the project. I see no reason to treat this request as suspect. The kind of abuse that would come from a request like this would be remedied swiftly (rather than the kind of abuse we worry about in administrators generally). What's he going to do, delete the main page? Protonk (talk) 02:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sure. Clear outline of what good he'll do for wikipedia, sans admin drama. Ideal candidate, IMO. Wish there were more of him. The alternative is to require this already trusted Wiki-editor to perform some silly, perfunctory "chores", get involved in admin areas and basically waste his and everyone else's time. No thanks. I trust that he'll do what he says he'll do. Keeper ǀ 76 02:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Epbr123 (talk) 02:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support: This editor is asking for permission to contribute to one particular area of our project, and I don't see why not; he's an active admin at two different projects already. However, I do wish that the editor would promise to limit his admin-actions to areas pertaining to WP:SBL. Otherwise, full support. -- Nomader (Talk) 04:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Samir 04:11, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Why not, after all adminship shouldn't be a big deal, decision can always be reversed if there are problems. Guest9999 (talk) 04:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- weak support The lack of experience on this project is a slight concern. However, he is an admin on .de so we can trust him. And he intends to use the tools in a very narrow fashion. Overall I think that letting him have the tools will be a net benefit. JoshuaZ (talk) 05:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support per majorly and Barneca as a net positive, despite the low count on this Wikipedia, with the proviso that I can accept on WP:AGF that candidate will limit himself to SBL only--
an area I never heard of before.Cheers, Dlohcierekim 05:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)- Dear crat-- after reviewing this discussion, I have changed to Strongest possible support. Dlohcierekim 16:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- This is the most specialized version of the specialist admin concept we are likely to see. One who concentrates on WP:CSD need not have experience with page protection or voluminous AN/I posts to do well deleting those articles, for instance. A vandal fighter need not be an article builder. It is detrimental to the project to deny candidates the tools for areas of interest because they lack experience in areas of no interest. The oppose arguments, IMO, simply do not apply in this instance. Dlohcierekim 17:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support I take as truthful the candidate's representation that he will use the tools only relative to WP:SBL, and I suggest to those opposing that I cannot imagine that any of those supporting here would be unwilling to act swiftly to request that the candidate be desysopped were he to exceed his limited mandate or were he, because of unfamiliarity with en.wp (I don't really know that any exists, but some are concerned, and probably not unreasonably so), to disrupt the project in his use of the tools; the ArbCom, to be sure, would undoubtedly (and with celerity) direct a steward to remove the sysop flag were the community to draw its attention to the candidate's contravening the commitment he makes here (that's not, I should note, to suggest that it is the ArbCom to whom the community should have to turn to pursue de-adminship—the present scheme improperly aggrandizes the role of the committee and unforgivably relieves the community of a right that rightly resides with it; I speak only to the process that would transpire here). Joe 06:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- I should say that I would not support a bureaucrat's promoting the candidate in the absence of a consensus here (perhaps my nettlesome pessimism once more rears its head, but I suspect that it will be suggested, as it has been in certain other cases in which a consensus for promotion was not reached in RfAs that were pursued for technical reasons, in which much of the opposition was regarded by some as fundamentally misguided and small-minded, that the candidate be promoted notwithstanding the community's having failed to accede to the request). Joe 06:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Weak Support - admin on another Wiki (so I somehow doubt that he will be deleting the main page), he will be a net positive and the edit count is not a major factor to me because I'm going to AGF his claim that he will stick to WP:SBL. Though the edit count scares me a little bit, he is a sysop on the German Wikipedia, so he's has to have done some good work there...maybe that can be translated to here (going back to my "net positive" thought). Allanon ♠The Dark Druid♠ 06:51, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support. Adminship on de.wiki is very hard to come by, the simple fact that this editor has adminship there assuages any concerns I might have. RyanGerbil10(Four more years!) 06:56, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support. Goals and needs of admin tools are so refreshingly straightforward, it's very to !vote any other way. -Seidenstud (talk) 07:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support All the evidence clearly suggests the candidate is knowledgeable and trustworthy. Steven Walling (talk) 08:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support: Trust the user to do the job intended. I see no reason to 'make' the user do some AIV of AfD or article building just to boost an edit count and get ready for another RfA. This candidate is an exception to many rules, and I support. I wish there were more cross-wiki candidates like this one. Law shoot! 08:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Makes sense to me. Angus McLellan (Talk) 09:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Per Majorly's argument, and WP:DEAL -
although I look forward to the answer to the well phrased Q4.Excellent answer to Q4 - although possibly unenforceable I have no reason to doubt Seth's word on this. Far more potential benefit than risk. Pedro : Chat 10:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC) - Support Per his answer to q. 4. My main concern was that adminship is granted as a package: as discussed, if we trust an editor to delete, we trust them to block and protect, etc etc. However, this is exactly the type of "specialist" candidate that is worthy of the tools. We don't do temporary adminship here, so the tools are granted indefinitely, but if you want to move into other areas, I would advise a second RfA. Best, PeterSymonds (talk) 11:03, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support - user is demonstrably trustworthy, has done good admin work on de.wiki, and wishes to assist our overworked admins in an often-neglected area he's good at? I'm gonna call this a clear net positive. Stick to the spam blacklist work and I will have no complaints whatsoever. ~ mazca t|c 11:25, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support This is a rare exception. Because they're limiting themselves to certain areas he already has experience with, I doubt they will blow up the 'pedia. Xclamation point 11:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Agree with Garden (talk · contribs), Cyclonenim (talk · contribs), Barneca (talk · contribs), Lazulilasher (talk · contribs), Majorly (talk · contribs), et al. Cirt (talk) 12:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Has special purpose. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 12:43, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Here to do a job which badly needs doing, and which will significantly improve the project. Even he if does decide to go rouge, extremely unlikely considering he is trusted on two other projects and seems to meet most of the requirements to be a full meta-admin, any damage he could do before being caught would be outweighted by the benefit his changes would give. --Jac16888 (talk) 13:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support. SPA, will only do non-controversial changes with the additional rights. Per Q4 and no problems on his talk page this is not only a net, but a full positive. --Amalthea 13:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support The candidate holds a position of trust on another Wikipedia project and I see no reasonable possibility of abuse on this one. Once trust is established, the bottom line is that the en-Wikipedia project would benefit from this user having the bit. SWik78 (talk • contribs) 13:44, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support I think you'll be a good admin. Elbutler (talk) 14:16, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support. The user is volunteering to perform, a largely neglected task here, as he has done on other projects. His task will be made easier with the use of the same tools that has used elsewhere without incident. No problem supporting. Xymmax So let it be written So let it be done 14:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
WeakSupport,verging on neutralAs the person who initially closed this per not now, I completely understand where the Opposes are coming from. At first glance this candidate is the prototypical NOTNOW case. Less than 60 edits on the EN wiki, no way that most of us can properly vett him. BUT he is already an admin on two sister projects. If there was ever a motion to simplify the RfA process it would be to find a way to ease respected sysops from other projects. (This is not to say all sister projects as some are still in their infancy---but DE and META would be two projects where I am willing to accept their opinion.) So, while the Opposes make perfect sense to me, and I started out there, I think I am ultimately swayed to say, this is an exception and to IAR.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 14:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)EDIT: The more I think about this, the more I am convinced its the right thing to do.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 15:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)- Support I think we need to stop viewing the admin process as some sort of bizarre "good citizen" award and view it more practically. The candidate is credible and wishes to improve a highly technical aspect of wikipedia, he has a reasonably detailed description of the work he wishes to undertake, and it is good work. Ray (talk) 14:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hear hear. Dlohcierekim 14:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Bingo. Seth has volunteered to do a job which, to be honest, I have no interest in doing. I do, however, recognize that this job must be done. I am quite happy to welcome him to our project and am more than willing to provide him with the tools he requires. Lazulilasher (talk) 15:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- I added something to the blacklist on meta, after someone asked me privately. I formatted it wrongly, and there were problems. I of course reverted my addition straightaway and I've not added anything since, I don't think. It goes to show it's a very dull, difficult and often awkward job to do. Anyone who works on the spam blacklist regularly has my respect. Majorly talk 15:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Bingo. Seth has volunteered to do a job which, to be honest, I have no interest in doing. I do, however, recognize that this job must be done. I am quite happy to welcome him to our project and am more than willing to provide him with the tools he requires. Lazulilasher (talk) 15:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Hear hear. Dlohcierekim 14:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Strong Support. Opposes points are unconvincing. While de-wiki has different policies to us I trust an admin on that project to be mature enough to look ours up before doing anything controversial (not that updating the spam watchlist is too difficult and iffy). In addition he has few edits on en-wiki, yes, but de-wiki actually has (in some ways) stricter standards; it'd be like (iffy example I know) preventing someone using a pistol because "they've only got experience with rifles". Ironholds (talk) 15:15, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Strong Support is clearly a useful member of the global Wiki community and there is no reason to expect he will go rogue on us GTD 15:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support; no trust issues, and a reasonable request for access to the tools in a manner which will benifit enwp. — Coren (talk) 15:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support Mainly per Majorly, but also on the proviso that you agree to register yourself here if given the mop. ϢereSpielChequers 15:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support this entirely reasonable request. Crystal whacker (talk) 16:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Strong support - "if he can be trusted to block sites globally on meta, what's the problem here?" - wise words. Viel Glück! ;) --Cameron* 16:18, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support - Though edit count is low here, no lower than mine on our sister project, however he has well over 10,000 edits, as shown here [1] and is a administrator on our German site - No history of incivility there or here - been an active member for over 5 years. I say let the tools carry over. Viel Glueck. ShoesssS Talk 16:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support The opposes are mind-numbingly short-sighted. Trusted user, no reason to think that he won't abide by his promise to work solely on SBL. It's also pretty clear that lustiger_seth would get hammered and desysoped if he uses admin powers on matters unrelated to SBL. Experience on the en.wiki is irrelevant if he sticks to spam control which really needs to be a cross-wiki process in order to be effective. I just can't believe people are citing WP:NOTNOW as if it's relevant to this particular case. I'm tempted to create a new shortcut WP:DONTREPLACERATIONALTHOUGHTBYANALLCAPSSHORTCUT. Most depressing is the argument "many good RfA candidates fail on flimsy grounds so it's only fair that we fail this one". Pascal.Tesson (talk) 16:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Statements such as Joe's and Pascal's that claim that he would get desysopped if he used admin powers on matters unrelated to SBL are not well founded. There is no way he would get desysopped unless he did something that any other admin would get desysopped for. Like it or not, adminship is an all-or-nothing kind of deal, and all admins on this wiki should have an appropriate level of experience on this wiki. Mike R (talk) 16:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- I beg to differ. This is an unusual request for adminship and all supporters of this RfA understand this, as does lusiger seth. I'd be the first one to send the issue to ArbCom at the first sign of trouble. There's a clear and unambiguous pledge to a limited use of the tools. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 16:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Statements such as Joe's and Pascal's that claim that he would get desysopped if he used admin powers on matters unrelated to SBL are not well founded. There is no way he would get desysopped unless he did something that any other admin would get desysopped for. Like it or not, adminship is an all-or-nothing kind of deal, and all admins on this wiki should have an appropriate level of experience on this wiki. Mike R (talk) 16:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- support sure why not. He does not have a ton of article work in de but he seems trustworthy. GtstrickyTalk or C 16:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support - Per Majorly. Wisdom89 (T / C) 16:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- I doubt he'd cause any problems. Sane, and his history suggests he wouldn't suddenly start getting involved in drama here. Trusted and everything. Tombomp (talk/contribs) 16:52, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Support a trusted user with good track record on dewiki and meta. --Aude (talk) 16:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Oppose
- We can't guarantee you'll use it for just the spam blacklist, so oppose. Caulde 22:57, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- Per number of edits here. Though your intentions are laudable, adminship is pretty all or nothing on wikipedia. I've added WP:SBL to my watchlist though, and would ask other admins to do the same, to make any additions suggested there get added a little faster. --fvw* 23:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
- There are already moral supports, so I have to oppose per WP:NOTNOW, also per lack (less than 500) contributions. ayematthew ✡ 00:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- This should not be NOTNOW, based on the supports that are not moral supports. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 00:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Possibly worded it wrong. I normally moral support candidates like seth, but in a situation where there are already a few moral supports and only one oppose, I felt the need to oppose. ayematthew ✡ 00:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- As well, for the record: my support is unrestricted. I support the candidate without reservation (i.e.: I am not morally supporting). Candidate has trust of 2 of the largest projects; I applaud his desire to go through RfA rather than take another route. I understand your desire for oppose; I merely wanted to clarify my support. Lazulilasher (talk) 00:34, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Possibly worded it wrong. I normally moral support candidates like seth, but in a situation where there are already a few moral supports and only one oppose, I felt the need to oppose. ayematthew ✡ 00:31, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- This should not be NOTNOW, based on the supports that are not moral supports. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 00:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose per lack of experience. 5 months doesn't let me down, but (I don't know if the edit counter is messing around,) but less than 50 edits? WP:NOTNOW!!! I can see why you have no edit conflicts... But you are kind of on the right track. Sorry! Try again in a few months... K50 Dude ROCKS! 00:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC) P.S....anybody that thinks that the edit counter was being stupid to me, could you PELASE let me know on my talk page (click ROCKS! up on my sig.) because I just don't know... I feel it is letting me down...
- I'm really probably veering off of AGF here, but please read the nomination, the questions, and the full discussion before !voting based on a low edit count reason. The candidate explains why his low number of edits is not an issue. This is most assuredly not a NOTNOW issue. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 00:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Last time I checked, you don't just look at the edit counter and immediately put a strong oppose. And you also don't scream "WP:NOTNOW!!!" with three exclamation points...or even one at someone.—Preceding unsigned comment added by R (talk • contribs)
- OK, that may have been a bit too much flaming, but I just don't trust the experience. It does look like he is good on Meta-Wiki, but I just can't give him sysop tools on this Wikimedia Project. 50 edits is lack of experience under any circumstance, especially to my standards. 50 is a good number of edits, but not for a sysop (hence the WP:NOTNOW). K50 Dude ROCKS! 01:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Any older Bitish editors care to redirect WP:NOWNOW to Jimmy Savile....? :) Pedro : Chat 11:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- OK, that may have been a bit too much flaming, but I just don't trust the experience. It does look like he is good on Meta-Wiki, but I just can't give him sysop tools on this Wikimedia Project. 50 edits is lack of experience under any circumstance, especially to my standards. 50 is a good number of edits, but not for a sysop (hence the WP:NOTNOW). K50 Dude ROCKS! 01:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Last time I checked, you don't just look at the edit counter and immediately put a strong oppose. And you also don't scream "WP:NOTNOW!!!" with three exclamation points...or even one at someone.—Preceding unsigned comment added by R (talk • contribs)
- I'm really probably veering off of AGF here, but please read the nomination, the questions, and the full discussion before !voting based on a low edit count reason. The candidate explains why his low number of edits is not an issue. This is most assuredly not a NOTNOW issue. - NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 00:26, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Spam off back to de. RMHED (talk) 00:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- WTF? I suggest you refactor that. // roux 00:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Refactor off. RMHED (talk) 00:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Just let it go, Roux et al. No bureaucrat is going to consider this vote, so for once let's demonstrate it's possible not to rise to the bait. --barneca (talk) 01:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Words of wisdom Barnacle, those 'crats know their stuff. Yeah lets sysop an editor with less than 50 edits on this project. Sure they only want to deal with spam so that's OK, but once sysopped there's fuck all stopping them embarking on all sorts of admin adventurism. RMHED (talk) 01:41, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Just let it go, Roux et al. No bureaucrat is going to consider this vote, so for once let's demonstrate it's possible not to rise to the bait. --barneca (talk) 01:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Refactor off. RMHED (talk) 00:59, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- WTF? I suggest you refactor that. // roux 00:33, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- RfA really isn't the right place for this kind of requests. --Aqwis (talk – contributions) 00:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- He's requesting adminship - where else do you suggest? Majorly talk 00:32, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. If the permissions came separately, I might feel otherwise, but I can't seriously entertain an RfA from an editor who claims "no edits" about himself. Self-admitted no experience. He may say he will only use the tools for SBL, but the best laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft agley. - Revolving Bugbear 02:06, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Nothing personal, I just can't support handing out the tools to someone with that little experience on en-wiki. I've always thought it would be a good idea to allow specialised restricted admin permissions so that this kind of application could be allowed, but in the absence of this flexibility I must regretfully oppose. Espresso Addict (talk) 02:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose Based on an absurdly low level of input on this project -- both in terms of quality and quantity. I have to state that I am utterly baffled: dedicated long-standing contributors to this project who've made thousands of edits are routinely picked apart in RfA over the most inane trivia and denied adminship, yet someone who has barely contributed anything to this project can waltz in and be treated like royalty. Ecoleetage (talk) 02:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose per WP:NOTNOW. Probably will make a good admin at some point, but too little participation on en-wiki yet. Nsk92 (talk) 03:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose, although this is a tough call. I will gladly reconsider when the candidate gains additional experience on en-wiki. Majoreditor (talk) 04:13, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. The request is predicated on limited applications of an array of tools which confer much wider powers. Whatever "temp admin at meta-wiki" actually means, it doesn't add legitimacy to a request for local en adminship. — Athaenara ✉ 04:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- "temp admin" means temporary admin (my adminship there is limited to 6 months). by "meta-wiki" I mean m:Main Page. -- seth (talk) 10:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Iustiger seth has not yet demonstrated sufficient interactions with other users on Wikipedia. Axl ¤ [Talk] 10:21, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- He has on two other wikis, though. –Juliancolton Happy Holidays 14:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose 42 edits. Really? Trust doesn't transfer from wiki to wiki, and I see nothing here that shows me you would be a compotent admin.--Koji† 15:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. I can't believe the support this is getting. Per Athaenara. Per Ecoleetage. Despite what areas this guy says he's going to work in, we're going to give him the bit? I understand RfA a little less every single day. Someone makes three questionable CSD tags four months ago, they get hammered. Someone with off-wiki credentials shows up with virtually no experience, we're going to confer admin powers? Tan | 39 15:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Maybe we need to fine grain what admins can do for these special cases and define some special roles that don't require the entire adminship rigamarole? However, the guy didn't just show up with "virtually no experience", unless you think de:wp is chopped liver. I think asking someone to go through a bunch of busywork so that they can help us out by working in one not very popular/neglected area (witness the folk saying "this is important but I don't want to do it") is...
a wastenot a good use of anyone's time. Compare Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Herbythyme for reference. That one sailed through. ++Lar: t/c 15:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)- I meant to say virtually no English Wikipedia experience. Thanks (seriously) for the observation; my error. Tan | 39 15:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Not to pile on, but it really is an important distinction. The de-wiki is among the stricter branches of the global wiki, and he's a de-admin. In my opinion he's a relatively low-risk candidate for that reason alone. Reasonable people can of course disagree... but to address your original point, this is part of why seth is getting this level of support. Townlake (talk) 16:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- He could be a beaurocrat, an ombudsman, a Jimbo of the de-wiki and this does not show me how he will perform here. That the de-wiki is "among the stricter branches" is a fully subjective statement. I need to see activity here. Not on some other wiki. How does he fit in with the en culture? Does he have strong communication skills? What if he decides to start acting in other admin arenas, despite his claims to stick to one forum, as happens quite often? While I think people quite often oppose by jumping on the "oppose-bandwagon", I think the opposite phenomenon is happening in this RfA. Tan | 39 16:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, for me personally... I saw this RfA and said, "Yeah right, let's save this guy the embarrassment of an RfA" and closed it speedily. But I thought about (for all of 15 minutes) and decided that since he was an admin on 2 of the stricter projects, that I would reopen the RfA---that my actions were premature. I then didn't check this RfA until this morning. I expected it to be closed by the time I came to work, but had decided to support because the key element of being an admin is trust and responsibility. And I do trust Seth based on his experience elsewhere.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 17:17, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- I for one really ask my self what “[...] the stricter projects [...]” are? Could someone explain, please? I'm curious. :) —αἰτίας •discussion• 17:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Although it won't change your mind and I can understand your doubts, I want to add some information concerning two of your requests:
I need to see activity here.→ Have a look at this (big!) diff. That's the kind of stuff I'd do here in en-wiki.
What if he decides to start acting in other admin arenas, despite his claims to stick to one forum, as happens quite often?→ See question 4. -- seth (talk) 17:37, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, for me personally... I saw this RfA and said, "Yeah right, let's save this guy the embarrassment of an RfA" and closed it speedily. But I thought about (for all of 15 minutes) and decided that since he was an admin on 2 of the stricter projects, that I would reopen the RfA---that my actions were premature. I then didn't check this RfA until this morning. I expected it to be closed by the time I came to work, but had decided to support because the key element of being an admin is trust and responsibility. And I do trust Seth based on his experience elsewhere.---Balloonman PoppaBalloon 17:17, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- He could be a beaurocrat, an ombudsman, a Jimbo of the de-wiki and this does not show me how he will perform here. That the de-wiki is "among the stricter branches" is a fully subjective statement. I need to see activity here. Not on some other wiki. How does he fit in with the en culture? Does he have strong communication skills? What if he decides to start acting in other admin arenas, despite his claims to stick to one forum, as happens quite often? While I think people quite often oppose by jumping on the "oppose-bandwagon", I think the opposite phenomenon is happening in this RfA. Tan | 39 16:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Not to pile on, but it really is an important distinction. The de-wiki is among the stricter branches of the global wiki, and he's a de-admin. In my opinion he's a relatively low-risk candidate for that reason alone. Reasonable people can of course disagree... but to address your original point, this is part of why seth is getting this level of support. Townlake (talk) 16:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- I meant to say virtually no English Wikipedia experience. Thanks (seriously) for the observation; my error. Tan | 39 15:49, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Maybe we need to fine grain what admins can do for these special cases and define some special roles that don't require the entire adminship rigamarole? However, the guy didn't just show up with "virtually no experience", unless you think de:wp is chopped liver. I think asking someone to go through a bunch of busywork so that they can help us out by working in one not very popular/neglected area (witness the folk saying "this is important but I don't want to do it") is...
- Strongest possible oppose I can't remember adding a strong oppose to a RfA, however in this case I even have to add my strongest possible oppose. Firstly, I have to say that I'm in perfect agreement with User:Ecoleetage, User:KojiDude, User:Tanthalas39 and User:Caulde here. Actually, I'm really astonished by what is happening here. How can I trust someone who has not demonstrated any of the things I expect from an admin? This user has 11 edits in the mainspace (!). Usually, such a RfA would be closed per WP:SNOW/WP:NOTNOW (justifiably!). Great, this user is an administrator on another Wikipedia. However, how can a user with virtually no experience on this wiki have enough policy knowledge? Simply, he can't. Summarising, this user has not contributed any content to this encyclopedia, he has no experience in any admin area, plainly he has no overall experience here. Any admin would reasonably decline a rollback request from this user, so how can this user be granted adminship? Again, I'm astonished and equally shocked by what is happening here. I really do hope that our bureaucrats won't count votes when closing this one, but rather carefully consider all arguments and concerns. —αἰτίας •discussion• 16:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Two things. Any admin who knows his work on other projects would grant him rollback. Second, admins need to be aware of the subtleties of en.wiki specific policies when they issue blocks, delete pages, close XfDs, etc. Spam-fighting on the other hand cannot be treated effectively as an en.wiki specific problem and if you've ever worked in this area you know how difficult it is to coordinate the efforts across the projects. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 16:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- If you had taken the time to read my whole rationale, you would have seen that I wrote “[...] I have to say that I'm in perfect agreement with [...] User:Caulde”. So, what did User:Caulde write above? “We can't guarantee you'll use it for just the spam blacklist, so oppose”. Also, I may hint at what User:Mike R wrote above: “Like it or not, adminship is an all-or-nothing kind of deal, and all admins on this wiki should have an appropriate level of experience on this wiki.”. —αἰτίας •discussion• 16:52, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Two things. Any admin who knows his work on other projects would grant him rollback. Second, admins need to be aware of the subtleties of en.wiki specific policies when they issue blocks, delete pages, close XfDs, etc. Spam-fighting on the other hand cannot be treated effectively as an en.wiki specific problem and if you've ever worked in this area you know how difficult it is to coordinate the efforts across the projects. Pascal.Tesson (talk) 16:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose per Caulde. Mike R (talk) 16:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Strong, but regretful, oppose Keepscases (talk) 16:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose per the rationales of Fvw, Tanthalas39, Aitias and this "I won't use the rights to do anything, which has nothing to do with the SBL." --Sandahl 16:58, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry, English is not my first language. Perhaps that quoted sentence can be misunderstood. I did not mean the "rights to do anything", I meant "I will use the rights for SBL-related stuff only". However, I repeated in the response to question 4 what I wanted to say by this sentence. -- seth (talk) 17:29, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- Oppose. Sorry, I am German myself but I know why I work here. De-wiki is very different from en-wiki and while I do not want to imply that the candidate would make mistakes deliberately, there is a very good chance he will make them, not being familiar with the project at all. I think our admins here should be able to handle SBL just fine without having to "outsource" it to de-wiki admins. Regards SoWhy 17:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Neutral
- Neutral Can't support right now. His answers really don't explain much. America69 (talk) 00:24, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
- I have explained more since. -- seth (talk) 10:48, 18 December 2008 (UTC)