Jump to content

Talk:National Assembly (Artsakh): Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Content deleted Content added
In exile?: Reply
Line 26: Line 26:
:::*[https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-political-and-cultural-fate-of-karabakh-armenians-in-armenia Centre for East European and International Studies], 04.09.2024: ''"The former de facto elites of Nagorno-Karabakh have attempted to create a government-in-exile. They have become a thorn in the side of the Pashinyan government and their ideas have been forcefully repudiated. The speaker of the Armenian Parliament, Alen Simonyan, stated that there can be no Karabakh state within Armenia and that Armenia will not provide money to maintain the political institutions of Karabakh."''
:::*[https://www.zois-berlin.de/en/publications/zois-spotlight/the-political-and-cultural-fate-of-karabakh-armenians-in-armenia Centre for East European and International Studies], 04.09.2024: ''"The former de facto elites of Nagorno-Karabakh have attempted to create a government-in-exile. They have become a thorn in the side of the Pashinyan government and their ideas have been forcefully repudiated. The speaker of the Armenian Parliament, Alen Simonyan, stated that there can be no Karabakh state within Armenia and that Armenia will not provide money to maintain the political institutions of Karabakh."''
:::All these sources are indicative of the fact that plans to form a government-in-exile have not come to fruition and are limited to mere claims by the interested party. I do not know what "plethora of sources" you are referring to but ironically, 90% of search results about a supposed NKR government-in-exile are news reports about the Armenian leadership slamming the idea of there existing such a government. We are talking about a legislative body, and as of now there are no serious grounds to suppose that this body carries out any legislative functions, or any functions for that matter, outside of occasional instances of local media outreach. In any case, wording it in this article as ''"The National Assembly of the Republic of Artsakh is the legislative branch of the government of the Republic of Artsakh"'' is misleading and anachronistic and does not reflect the immense changes that affected the region a year ago. That would be like saying: ''"The [[National Council of Iran]] the legislative branch of the government of the Imperial State of Iran"''. [[User:Parishan|Parishan]] ([[User talk:Parishan|talk]]) 01:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
:::All these sources are indicative of the fact that plans to form a government-in-exile have not come to fruition and are limited to mere claims by the interested party. I do not know what "plethora of sources" you are referring to but ironically, 90% of search results about a supposed NKR government-in-exile are news reports about the Armenian leadership slamming the idea of there existing such a government. We are talking about a legislative body, and as of now there are no serious grounds to suppose that this body carries out any legislative functions, or any functions for that matter, outside of occasional instances of local media outreach. In any case, wording it in this article as ''"The National Assembly of the Republic of Artsakh is the legislative branch of the government of the Republic of Artsakh"'' is misleading and anachronistic and does not reflect the immense changes that affected the region a year ago. That would be like saying: ''"The [[National Council of Iran]] the legislative branch of the government of the Imperial State of Iran"''. [[User:Parishan|Parishan]] ([[User talk:Parishan|talk]]) 01:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
::::Wrong again. The National Assembly, and its parliamentarians, have been actively operating in Armenia. From releasing official announcements and composing documents, assisting displaced persons, [https://asbarez.com/artsakh-parliament-announcement-on-anniversary-of-independence-referendum/ organizing rallies, press briefings] and [https://armenianweekly.com/2024/04/02/pashinyan-a-greater-threat-to-armenias-security-than-artsakhs-government-in-exile/ protests], and [https://mirrorspectator.com/2024/05/23/galstanyan-meets-with-karabakh-government-members-mps-in-yerevan/ meeting with the leaders] of the [[2024 Armenian protests]] including several opposition party leaders, etc.. It's significantly more then just ''"local media outreach"'' as you erroneously claim.
::::The views of the Prime Minister and government of Armenia, do not change the fact that this body 1) still exists and 2) is functionally active. The [https://asbarez.com/artsakh-dissolution-decree-annulled/ 28 September document has been officially revoked and nullified] by this very body when they proclaimed to remain active as a government-in-exile. It was signed into decree by president [[Samvel Shahramanyan]]. In many countries, dozens of governments-in-exile that are universally accepted under international law exist, whether they are supported by a centralized government or not.
::::Sure, this article needs more information on recent developments and also more information on how exactly this displaced legislative body operates, their organizational structure, and so on. Alternatively, a whole new article could be created centered around this government-in-exile in Yerevan, in order to differentiate the legislative body which had existed in [[Stepanakert]]. However, the topic of this discussion, based on your first comment implies that this body has dissolved and (concerningly) you relied on outdated information. Your [[WP:ES]] also suggested that this body is defunct- which is categorically untrue. [[User:Archives908|Archives908]] ([[User talk:Archives908|talk]]) 02:56, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 02:56, 29 October 2024

Fair use rationale for Image:Nagorno-Karabakh Coat of Arms.png

Image:Nagorno-Karabakh Coat of Arms.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC) <math>Insert non-formatted text here</math>[reply]

In exile?

The source quoted with regard to the National Assembly allegedly existing in exile talks about "factions of the National Assembly" making a collective statement; there is no indication of there being a functional body fulfilling the role of a government. The 28 September document mentions the dissolution of "all state institutions and organisations under their departmental authority" before 1 January, which includes the National Assembly. If there is indeed a government-in-exile, it is a whole different initiative. Then it becomes an advocacy group rather than a real legislative body (which by definition requires representation, deliberation, legislation, and the ability to authorise expenditure, form governments and provide oversight, and the NKR National Assembly does not currently fit this definition), which in turn warrants a separate article, provided there is enough evidence for its existence (beyond occasional statements made to the media; see, for example, East Turkistan Government in Exile). So far there is none. It even looks like the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Prime Minister of Armenia denounced these claims by stating that "there is not and cannot be another government or another state in the Republic of Armenia". Parishan (talk) 14:49, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The assembly and its parliamentarians continue to carry out limited functions, in absentia, based in Yerevan. See [1], [2], [3], while this states "Since Azerbaijan's attack last year on Artsakh, which forced the entire Armenian population there to flee to Armenia, the Artsakh National Assembly has been working in exile in Armenia." And this [4] which states "Exiled leaders of Nagorno-Karabakh have pushed back against a senior Armenian official's claims that their government bodies have ceased to exist since Azerbaijan regained full control of the region last September." There is a plethora of WP:RS confirming the functionality of the assembly as a government-in-exile. Archives908 (talk) 23:56, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, maybe you aren't aware, but the 28 September document has been officially nullified. See [5] and [6]. Archives908 (talk) 00:00, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Archives908 First of all, please note that this is unacceptable: [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14]. I will have to ask you to revert yourself at this point; otherwise you will be reported for edit-warring. I am pinging you to avoid any potential miscommunication.
Carrying out "limited functions" does not mean forming a government-in-exile, especially when the supposed host country considers this activity illegal. Your arguments are unsatisfactory. OC Media, the only neutral source you have quoted, mentions "attempts to form a government-in-exile" but not its actual functionality, which is very much in line with other neutral sources:
  • Eurasianet, 03.04.2024: "At a late March cabinet session, Pashinyan bluntly announced that Karabakhi leaders would not be permitted to establish a government in exile. A government statement said that “in Armenia, apart from the Government of the Republic of Armenia, no other government can exist.”"
  • Centre for East European and International Studies, 04.09.2024: "The former de facto elites of Nagorno-Karabakh have attempted to create a government-in-exile. They have become a thorn in the side of the Pashinyan government and their ideas have been forcefully repudiated. The speaker of the Armenian Parliament, Alen Simonyan, stated that there can be no Karabakh state within Armenia and that Armenia will not provide money to maintain the political institutions of Karabakh."
All these sources are indicative of the fact that plans to form a government-in-exile have not come to fruition and are limited to mere claims by the interested party. I do not know what "plethora of sources" you are referring to but ironically, 90% of search results about a supposed NKR government-in-exile are news reports about the Armenian leadership slamming the idea of there existing such a government. We are talking about a legislative body, and as of now there are no serious grounds to suppose that this body carries out any legislative functions, or any functions for that matter, outside of occasional instances of local media outreach. In any case, wording it in this article as "The National Assembly of the Republic of Artsakh is the legislative branch of the government of the Republic of Artsakh" is misleading and anachronistic and does not reflect the immense changes that affected the region a year ago. That would be like saying: "The National Council of Iran the legislative branch of the government of the Imperial State of Iran". Parishan (talk) 01:32, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong again. The National Assembly, and its parliamentarians, have been actively operating in Armenia. From releasing official announcements and composing documents, assisting displaced persons, organizing rallies, press briefings and protests, and meeting with the leaders of the 2024 Armenian protests including several opposition party leaders, etc.. It's significantly more then just "local media outreach" as you erroneously claim.
The views of the Prime Minister and government of Armenia, do not change the fact that this body 1) still exists and 2) is functionally active. The 28 September document has been officially revoked and nullified by this very body when they proclaimed to remain active as a government-in-exile. It was signed into decree by president Samvel Shahramanyan. In many countries, dozens of governments-in-exile that are universally accepted under international law exist, whether they are supported by a centralized government or not.
Sure, this article needs more information on recent developments and also more information on how exactly this displaced legislative body operates, their organizational structure, and so on. Alternatively, a whole new article could be created centered around this government-in-exile in Yerevan, in order to differentiate the legislative body which had existed in Stepanakert. However, the topic of this discussion, based on your first comment implies that this body has dissolved and (concerningly) you relied on outdated information. Your WP:ES also suggested that this body is defunct- which is categorically untrue. Archives908 (talk) 02:56, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]