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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 12:26, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rui Caniço

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To this day, Caniço has never played in a professional league game and I'm not seeing enough WP:SIGCOV to justify an article. As a 15 year old, Calcio Mercato posted a rather far-fetched transfer rumour (reposted in this blog), stating that Inter and Milan were looking at him and that Parma and Man City had already offered for him. As with a lot of these rumours, nothing materialised. Not long after, he failed to even play a league game for lowly Estoril Praia and found his level at Sintrense and Coruchense, the latter club not even having its own Wikipedia article! Records disappear entirely after 2018. Other than the dodgy rumour, the best that I can find is Mais Futebol and Correio do Ribatejo, neither of which are close to passing WP:SPORTBASIC #5. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete yet another Alexanderalgrim creation. There could be coverage about the CDP part of his career, but there's a chance it would be local or not significant. Geschichte (talk) 19:27, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SIGCOV, and a poorly crafted article to begin with. Anwegmann (talk) 03:34, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 02:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 12:26, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pedro Campos (footballer, born 1995)

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Played only one professional game in the second tier of Portugal before playing in the third tier and below. I found CNN, which is just a brief article about him signing a professional contract. For his amateur career, I can only find trivial squad list mentions like Record, Mais Futebol and Santo Tirso Digital. Looks to fall short on WP:SIGCOV. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete yet another Alexanderalgrim creation. There could be coverage about the CDP part of his career, but there's a chance it would be local or not significant. Geschichte (talk) 10:30, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Appears to fail WP:SPORTBASIC. Anwegmann (talk) 03:34, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 02:44, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 10:04, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Artur Gajdoš

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With only primary sources listed, the article of this young football player certainly fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. I searched for him on news websites, even in Slovak, but those are limited to brief mentions; no activities on his own. However, the closest ones to SIGCOV are from Sport @ Aktuality.sk : 1 2. We might consider redirect to AS Trenčín as ATD. CuteDolphin712 (talk) 10:02, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 11:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify I'm tempted to vote keep, but I think draftifying is the most appropriate move. WP:TOOSOON. Anwegmann (talk) 03:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak keep Tentative as well. I was on the fence, but Geschichte's sources pushed me across the line. Good work. Still short of proper WP:SIGCOV, but I see this as enough for an emerging player. Anwegmann (talk) 16:50, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tentative keep - I found this, which has a number of quotes but is quite long, and don't doubt that a Slovak speaker would find more. The player is not that inexperienced, but has been a regular for a couple of years now, and close to the national team. This is what the coverage would stem from. The article is incomplete because his outing at competitions such as the 2023 FIFA U-20 World Cup is not covered, which it for instance is here (maybe not sigcov of him as a person, but of an important aspect of his career thus far). We should never ever redirect to clubs, because clubs are often subject to change. Geschichte (talk) 07:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. He is widely covered by the national media in Slovakia. I have now added the references to the article. Thanks to @Geschichte for findings some good sources. Newklear007 (talk) 10:34, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Player who is active and leading in Slovak football. Regularly covered. Otapka (talk) 10:55, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Per all above. Svartner (talk) 02:43, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Procedural Keep. Stating there are two sources, without evaluating the quality of these sources, isn't providing a rationale for deletion, it's just stating what is present in the article. Please remember to do a thorough WP:BEFORE before compiling a compelling, policy-based rationale for why deletion is called for. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sam Wilks

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Only two sources in the article no others that I could find. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 15:08, 1 April 2024 (UTC)*Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Football, and England. . Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 06:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Procedural keep - no deletion rationale given. This is a player with (at least) 17 professional appearances in England in the 1920s. I am happy to assume there are more offline sources per WP:COMMONSENSE. Giant Snowman 11:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay but can you find those sources? This essay seems relevent. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 15:15, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are already two from Green'un listed in the article itself. Giant Snowman 15:31, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Further, also there is the Joyce source - so THREE sources, not two as you claim in your late nomination rationale. Have you done BEFORE to check the Green'un sources? How do you know they are not significant coverage? Giant Snowman 15:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Joyce source seems pretty produdual just a book of records. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 15:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Multiple sources showing this player played numerous games of professional football. Strange proposal. Kivo (talk) 16:20, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete‎. Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jellywings19. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:35, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Julius Sohilait

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Football manager who fails WP:GNG. Amateur team manager so more like a hobby. Sources are either primary or trivial. Geschichte (talk) 09:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete‎. Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jellywings19. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yannik Taniwel

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Football manager who fails WP:GNG. Amateur team manager so more like a hobby. Sources are either primary or trivial. Geschichte (talk) 09:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fuad Abdella

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WP:BLP footballer in Ethiopia with no international caps and only 9 league games, for a bottom team in the league, I don't see it as having any chance to pass WP:GNG (and little future chance to do so as to warrant drafticitation). Geschichte (talk) 09:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I'm confused as to why the article was even created as there doesn't seem to be any claim to notability. I can't find any coverage in English or Amharic about him. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 10:48, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not enough international experience to supersede lack of WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann (talk) 03:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clive Imbayago

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Cricketer BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 01:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG, and with no lists for Zimbabwean cricketers there's no suitable redirect here per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article fails WP:GNG and should be removed. Go4thProsper (talk) 14:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 00:57, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Henco Beukes

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 00:53, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete There this quite lengthly profile, but it's only one source. Probably a case of WP:TOOSOON but would have passed the old WP:NRU guidelines. Lots of coverage but more needed for a WP:GNG pass, no suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:01, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:56, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dandrè Delport

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. The closest to WP:SIGCOV that came up in my searches was this interview. JTtheOG (talk) 00:22, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to be a case of WP:TOOSOON, although would have passed the old WP:NRU guidelines. Lots of coverage, but I'm not sure that there is enough for a WP:GNG pass, with no suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:03, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Does not meet WP:GNG.WmLawson (talk) 01:09, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:45, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vasilisa Kaganovskaia

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Fails WP:NSKATE; any medal placements are at the junior level. PROD was removed without explanation. Bgsu98 (Talk) 22:49, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:06, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NSKATE, as far as I can tell. Halfadaniel (talk) 05:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above. The "Grand Prix" is not a senior-level national championship. Bearian (talk) 14:09, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Etienne Janeke

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 22:01, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to be a case of WP:TOOSOON, but would have passed the old WP:NRU guidelines. Lots of coverage, but none of it really WP:GNG worthy. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD also. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:59, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:18, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Giovan Snyman

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 21:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to be a case of WP:TOOSOON on my part, obviously would have past the old WP:NRU requirements. Lots of coverage, but I'm not sure there's anything WP:GNG worthy in it, no suitable redirect per WP:ATD also. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:57, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ^Complex/_Rational 20:05, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan Basri Ridzuan

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In his relatively short career, it doesn't appear that he garnered enough significant coverage to meet even #5 of WP:SPORTBASIC, which is the minimum requirement. The best sources found were HMetro and Bharian, neither of which address the subject in any detail. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:54, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. No notability here or anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann (talk) 23:50, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:14, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ^Complex/_Rational 20:05, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zarulizwan Mazlan

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The current article doesn't show how the subject meets #5 of WP:SPORTBASIC and I wasn't able to find anything good in my searches. He is mentioned in passing on his FA's website about a youth fixture, NST, which mentions him in passing in a match report, and Bharian, another passing mention in a report about youth football. His entire career lasted only 170 mins and consisted only of games for Terengganu's reserve team. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:45, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC and WP:SIGCOV, as nom explains. A career wholly lacking notability. Anwegmann (talk) 23:49, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:14, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to Netherlands at the 1936 Summer Olympics#Fencing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jan Schepers

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Does not appear notable. Avishai11 (talk) 16:06, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Looks pretty promising with entries – per the authority control – in national and international databases? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:15, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 17:08, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Article only mentions he participated in the 1936 summer Olympics, does not mention whether or not he actually won any medals. Shadow311 (talk) 18:35, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Netherlands at the 1936 Summer Olympics#Fencing, where his year of birth and death were added by me. Article contains too little context to be sustained. gidonb (talk) 03:42, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 17:32, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arnold Shara

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Cricketer Lugstub that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. (proposed by JTtheOG) Avishai11 (talk) 16:11, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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@Avishai11 Can you explain me why you removed the PROD and immediately nominated it for deletion via AFD? Uncontested PROD would anyway get deleted in 7 days' time. Robo^Cric Let's chat 16:39, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh my gosh! I am so sorry, as this was an accident. I clicked the wrong button. Is there any way to undo this? Avishai11 (talk) 16:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:GNG, no suitable redirect per WP:ATD as there are no lists for Zimbabwean cricketers. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 16:59, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mikhail Khodunov

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Doesn't seem to meet #5 of WP:SPORTBASIC and his professional career consisted only of 293 mins of game time. I found no decent coverage in Belarusian and Russian searches yielded only a trivial match report mention in Gorod214 and a list of footballers sitting on the bench in the same source. Neither of these show WP:SIGCOV. The articles in both Belarusian Wikipedias also don't show SIGCOV, just database sources. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I agree that this fails WP:SIGCOV. I'm not sure about WP:SPORTBASIC, but that's no matter. Anwegmann (talk) 23:48, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 11:14, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 02:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Roman Savchenko (footballer)

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Appears to fail WP:SIGCOV, and thus WP:GNG. I did several searches in both English and Ukrainian, and only a hockey player came up. This could be a potential WP:TOOSOON situation. Anwegmann (talk) 01:37, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 12:00, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 00:36, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kayden Kiewit

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 00:58, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete A case of WP:TOOSOON on my part, when the guidelines were changing. Lots of coverage on the subject, but none of it enough to warrant a WP:GNG pass, with no suitable redirect either. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:35, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zeilinga Strydom

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. A possible redirect seems to be List of South Africa national under-18 rugby union team players. JTtheOG (talk) 00:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to be a case of WP:TOOSOON on my part again, loads of coverage on the subject, but none of it really up to the levels of WP:GNG standards. I oppose the redirect suggested by nom as it's a non-notable team, whereas he has played for a couple of notable teams who don't have redirect lists. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - does not seem to have any WP:SIGCOV Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:25, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 00:34, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cal Smid

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 00:49, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Again looks like a case of WP:TOOSOON on my part, when the guidelines were in the process of being changed. There is this but another source or two would still be required, again player hasn't really kicked on to create more coverage, and no suitable redirect. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:20, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:34, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dameon Venter

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. The closes to WP:SIGCOV that came up in my searches was this piece. JTtheOG (talk) 00:33, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Probably was a case of WP:TOOSOON on creation, while the guidelines were in process of being changed also. There's lots of coverage, but I don't think any of it reaches WP:GNG levels if I'm honest, and his career hasn't really kicked on, so delete as there's no redirect. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agreeing with other votes - does not meet WP:GNG - insufficiently notable.WmLawson (talk) 00:56, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 00:33, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bradley Thain

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG. The closes to WP:SIGCOV that came up in my searches was this transactional announcement. JTtheOG (talk) 00:23, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Doesn't appear to be enough WP:GNG coverage in the large amounts of coverage of the subject to warrant a pass, no suitable redirect either. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:29, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Assam cricketers. —Ganesha811 (talk) 14:58, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nipan Deka

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Doesn't meet the criteria. So I have AfDed. Twinkle1990 (talk) 14:58, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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- Comment: additionationally WP:TOOSOON might be heard on. --Twinkle1990 (talk) 15:59, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to List of Assam cricketers Looks to fail WP:GNG although there is some coverage of the subject, I don't think any of it passes. There is a suitable redirect here though per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:32, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Assam cricketers fails WP:GNG.Tame Rhino (talk) 01:25, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Assam cricketers per Rugbyfan22.Sk1728 (talk) 12:31, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 21:52, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Franc Lena

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Lena has played a few times in the second tier of Albania but there is no apparent significant coverage, so WP:SPORTBASIC looks doubtful. All that I can find are transfer announcements that mention him briefly like Panorama, ABC News 1, a copy and paste of a press announcement from his own club, ABC News 2, a single passing mention, and 2lonline. He appears to be known as "Franci Lena" but searching this also doesn't yield any WP:SIGCOV. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, the Albanian second tier even failed the old football guideline as, with stadium attendance is in the hundreds, the league was clearly not professional. Likewise, this was clearly not an impactful football career. Geschichte (talk) 17:19, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete- not notable at all. WizardGamer775 (talk) 19:19, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I don't think this fails WP:SPORTBASIC, necessarily, but it clearly fails WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann (talk) 01:42, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:24, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nilo Aguillar Effori

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Delete: non-notable Brazilian sports attorney. Purely promo vanity page. Wikipedia is not LinkedIn. Nirva20 (talk) 02:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Also looked for sources: could find none talking about him. References on article were links to articles that he wrote. He does appear as an interviewee about some formula 1 things here, but it doesn't cover him significantly. Mrfoogles (talk) 03:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:47, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks like a self-promo. Anwegmann (talk) 01:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: classic vanity page. Please ping if you find sources to contrary. Jtrrs0 (talk) 15:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:21, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chloe Lewis (figure skater)

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Fails WP:NSKATE. Bgsu98 (Talk) 17:26, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Withdrawn by nominator. I withdraw this nomination. Bgsu98 (Talk) 21:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:32, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is a useful short article on a skater who was successful in international junior skating tournaments; her best result was the Youth Olympics. Articles such as Figure skating at the Winter Youth Olympics work in their current format because there are articles on most of the medalists; there is therefore no need to say anything about the medalists in such articles. Deleting articles such as this one, through an over-zealous application of rules to borderline cases such as this one, has a detrimental effect on other articles.-- Toddy1 (talk) 04:38, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that there is significant coverage in independent reliable sources, as mentioned below.-- Toddy1 (talk) 05:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Doesn't pass wp:gng Big Money Threepwood (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:17, 9 April 2024 (UTC) Blocked sock. Daniel (talk) 21:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NSKATE and fails WP:SIGCOV. Contributor892z (talk) 19:37, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Per Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 May 1, consensus was to relist for further discussion. I will strike the sockpuppetry above.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 21:42, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Previous votes failed to assess the article's sourcing. At the time of the nomination, it was sufficient to pass WP:GNG—namely this profile in the Oregonian and this briefer one in the Colorado Gazette. The nominator has also since said I felt my original nomination was flawed, given that GNG tops an SNG. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 21:53, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am unable to close this as a "speedy keep" because there are additional "delete" votes, but I would endorse this being closed as "keep". Bgsu98 (Talk) 23:47, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes GNG per the references provided by Hamelton. These in-depth profiles offer SIGCOV of the subject. Frank Anchor 00:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: There's WP:SIGCOV in multiple WP:RS and therefore the subject passes WP:GNG. TarnishedPath^talk 06:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 12:16, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Katie McBeath

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Fails WP:NSKATE. Bgsu98 (Talk) 00:41, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. This is confusing as the subject has won championships but I guess, given the comments, the tournaments aren't notable enough in themselves to meet WP:NTENNIS standards. If an editor would like to continue to work on the article in Draft space (in case of TOOSOON), contact me or ask at WP:REFUND. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marat Sharipov

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Non-notable tennis player who fails to meet WP:GNG and WP:NTENNIS. Being a highly ranked Russian tennis player doesn't inherently mean notability as has been mentioned in the argument against PROD. Adamtt9 (talk) 22:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He is the winner of thirteen ITF tournaments, five in singles!
He is among the top-10 Russian men's singles tennis players!
Two-time champion of Russia in doubles (2022, 2023) [1].

Zboris (talk) 23:15, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What has any of that got to do with WP:NTENNIS or WP:GNG? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 00:14, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Two-time champion of Russia in doubles (2022, 2023)!!! Zboris (talk) 17:21, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Nothing really notable here. Winning minor-minor league events against a lot of teenagers is not notable. If he steps up to the minor league Challenger level tour and wins an event or two, then we can take a re-look. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:27, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:SPORTSBASIC, WP:NTENNIS, and WP:SIGCOV. Probably a case of WP:TOOSOON. If he starts winning some tournaments in a higher league, or sets some sort of recognized Tennis record as described in WP:NTENNIS it can always be recreated.4meter4 (talk) 19:03, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:16, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fatoumata Sanou

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Women's basketball BLP which fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Not to be confused with the pollitician of the same name. JTtheOG (talk) 20:09, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no evidence of WP:SIGCOV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributor892z (talk • contribs) 13:44, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 23:30, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aldo Elmazi

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Played 1 professional league game then disappeared. No sign of WP:SPORTBASIC. My own searches yielded only database sources and one trivial mention in Panorama. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:13, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 17:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:SPORTBASIC. Bhivuti45 (talk) 18:51, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Yep, fails WP:SPORTBASIC—one league appearance in five years. Anwegmann (talk) 23:50, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Same as three databases, no source. Problem of SIGCOV! but may meet still meet notability in the future! Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 07:29, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:SPORTBASIC Robertjamal12 ~🔔 14:17, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 23:31, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ronald Asamsum

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Despite playing some matches for Persiwa Wamena, this footballer doesn't seem to meet WP:SPORTBASIC. The article is currently nothing more than a stats stub and my own searches yielded only Metrobanjar, a squad list mention, Banjarmasin, a trivial mention, and Viva, another trivial mention. Soccerway and other stats sites have his name as 'Asmsamsum', which also yields no good results. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:05, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Several searches literally brought up nothing at all beyond a loose reference in Football Manager 17. Fails WP:SIGCOV at the very least. Anwegmann (talk) 23:52, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 13:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 23:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kanan Guluyev

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This is an incentive tournament for 14-year-olds and is not officially a national Olympic championship. Redivy (talk) 21:34, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per possible several BLP and trademark violations (not as serious as WP:COPYVIO, but still). Many teenagers from this small country compete in similar events. It's a nice place to visit, but this kid is not notable. Bearian (talk) 19:12, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I couldn't find reliable sources that say anything about him, apart from the fact that he won a silver medal in 2010. I don't think that single result is enough to establish notability. Bendegúz Ács (talk) 19:53, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was draftify‎. ✗plicit 23:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Teng Kuol

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Most articles are about his older brothers Garang and Alou. The remaining articles are generic regarding transfers or squad selection. Article fails WP:GNG.Simione001 (talk) 21:12, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 11:18, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify This is really close to a keep for me, but only academy appearances so far but a lot of potential to reach WP:GNG standards. Anwegmann (talk) 23:49, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was draftify‎. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:28, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Veronika Zhilina

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Article is well written, comprehensive, high effort, and formatted well, but sadly I don't believe WP:NSKATE is met here. I would consider draftifying this over deletion. BrigadierG (talk) 11:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Draftify: per nom. Shadow311 (talk) 16:05, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify as nom BrigadierG (talk) 16:06, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Owen× ☎ 23:33, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Carlsen–Nakamura rivalry

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Fails WP:GNG, and fails WP:NOR starting with WP:SYNTH, as rumors and coincidences have been used to create a rivalry that simply does not exist in the real world, not in the way that we understand the term to mean when we say "X-Y rivalry". As it will be relevant in the discussion, I want to note upfront that chess24.com and chess.com are not independent sources when it comes to Carlsen and Nakamura, and they do not always take their journalism seriously. Usedtobecool ☎️ 13:27, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom – Article definitely fails mentioned categories above. A lack of impartial sources reporting on this topic as well definitely makes this article very dubious. This entire "rivalry" is more sensationalist tabloid than anything else, hoping to exploit the popularity of both players in recent years, rather than a genuine sports rivalry (e.g. Karpov–Kasparov). Zinderboff(talk) 14:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Strong keep or merge into two separate subsections on their pages. Notability is edgy but verifiability is there.

The topic itself is covered by non-chess RS here [2], here [3], here [4], and elsewhere.

If any of the details currently presented are SYNTH, deletion is hardly the answer.

Also, chess rivalries are not necessarily as savage as football rivalries. Chess is pure struggle, and not a physical one.

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another non-chess newspaper found: [5]

How are the four sources I brought not WP:SIGCOV?

It’s unfortunate that the “keep” side doesn’t have the cabal-mobilization capabilities enjoyed most of the stadium sports WikiProjects…

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 01:04, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: CNN does indeed make a bizarre and extraordinarily exaggerated claim about their "must-watch encounters" being comparable to Messi vs. Ronaldo et al. However, there are no further reliable sources in the article about a "rivalry", only synthesis. The topic is not notable because the two players might have anticipated online blitz/bullet matches but are not comparable in an over-the-board format. Carlsen says "not really" to a comparison. Some other sources seem to exist e.g. Financial Times, but this is not the level needed for a standalone article (I'd expect books and academic articles written on the topic). There is no American-Soviet politics like with Bobby Fischer and Boris Spassky. Chess.com is not independent of Nakamura as they are a sponsor and both of their streaming projects are financially dependent on each other. The Play Magnus Group article demonstrates that Chess24 and Chess.com are not financially independent of Carlsen. — Bilorv (talk) 17:05, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. TheGreatestLuvofAll (talk) 17:51, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I'm really not sure what the case is here. It's a well-sourced article including citations from varied reliable sources, both chess-focused and not, so very clearly passes the notability criteria even if one excludes chess.com/chess24 sources. The IndianExpress article cited by Bilorv only furthers to support the validity of the article and would be useful to add as a citation: Carlsen playing down the rivalry himself is irrelevant if a reliable source is reporting on the rivalry as existing- it's not up to the two players to determine the status of it. However, one thing I do think the article fails to make clear is that the reliable sources tend to focus on their rivalry in online speed chess in particular, rather than claiming a rivalry in classical over the board chess, so I do think it would be useful to reword the article somewhat to make the scope of it clear. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 18:43, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete per Bilorv. Schweinchen (talk) 20:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete We have far too many bad articles on rivalries that aren't actually rivalries. The sources here don't show this is an actual rivalry, just two good players who have played a number of games against each other. SportingFlyer T·C 21:01, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Bilorv and Usedtobecool. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 01:44, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject does not meet the WP:NRIVALRY due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. The sources are either primary or don't actually mention a rivalry beyond passing mentions. Let'srun (talk) 12:15, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The claim that the sources "don't actually mention a rivalry beyond passing mentions" is incorrect- the CNN, FT, and IndianExpress citations all explicitly have the rivalry as a main focus of the articles. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 12:40, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read the SIGCOV sources I linked? RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 01:06, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with rivalry articles on Wikipedia is that we frequently get eager editors who create articles on rivalries because a couple journalists describe something as a rivalry. Most of the articles linked only discuss how Carlsen is playing Nakamura and then simply mention a rivalry without going into any depth about an actual rivalry in the Boca–River sense, just that the two players played each other again. Having reviewed the sources, I don't think that's necessarily enough to base an article on. SportingFlyer T·C 09:39, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At the same time if there are articles outside the "Carlsen played/will play Nakamura" context I might support keeping this at a different title. SportingFlyer T·C 09:41, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I feel like it would be worthwhile to point out that most of the attention to this article has probably stemmed from the fact that it was posted on reddit with negative commentary yesterday, and that most of the editors pushing for the article to be deleted are not regular editors of chess-related articles. I am concerned about the possibility of vote brigading. Chessrat ^{(talk, contributions)} 12:49, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This possibility does concern me, but I was rather surprised how many of the others have high edit counts.

In the case of Daniel Quinlan, he’s active at WP:RFPP so he almost certainly saw it there. Don’t know about the others.

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 00:58, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As the creator of this article, I will briefly say that this whole discussion seems to be a brigading attempt from redditors who unfortunately are unwilling to realize that "rivalry" does not imply that the opponents are as strong or their scores are close to each other, but rather implies that there is a state of rivalry between them, as is the case with all chess opponents. I created the only other chess article which has the "rivalry" title in it about Kasparov and Karpov, so this ain't the only one. Carlsen-Nakamura is a notable rivalry if you follow chess. To reiterate "rivalry" does not mean that both of these guys are on the same level. After all Scotland-England football rivalry is extensively covered on Wikipedia even though England is much stronger in terms of results NyMetsForever (talk) 07:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. This Keep is only because of newly added sources. Some of these Keep arguments are invalid under current guidelines for notability for athletes. An assertion that someone is at the top of their field is just an unsupported claim if the sources aren't presented. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:25, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jaroslav Kravárik

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 04:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Exactly the same situation as in recently nominated Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Václav Sršeň by the same user. The article needs to expanded, not deleted. Cswiki includes literature. He played over 140 top-level matches in Czechoslovakia and won the Czechoslovak league twice. FromCzech (talk) 08:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per cs:Jaroslav Kravárik, the fact that he has played 141 top flight games in Czech, won the league twice and one cup there according to [6] suggesting there will be more sourcing for him elsewhere. WP:OFFLINESOURCES, etc. Govvy (talk) 08:48, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep Per above. Not fail in WP:GNG, the article just needs improvement compared to the Czech version. Svartner (talk) 10:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - actually he is at the top of his field. Within WP:GNG.BabbaQ (talk) 13:56, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Expansion is critical here. Anwegmann (talk) 19:19, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep per sources/arguments above which show notability. Giant Snowman 19:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Expanded the article with sources. Newklear007 (talk) 09:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:28, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ngoni Mupamba

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Cricketer BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. What I found was a couple of quotes here and not much else. JTtheOG (talk) 04:26, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete in absence of suitable redirect There is a bit of coverage on this one, but it seems a bit one event'y and still likely fails WP:GNG even with offline coverage included, no lists so no suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:28, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Travor Mutsamba

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Cricketer BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 04:23, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete in absence of suitable redirect Looks to be a WP:GNG fail, and with no lists for Zimbabwean cricketers, there's no suitable redirect here per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG with no substantial coverage and also WP:NCRIC. Robo^Cric Let's chat 19:36, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I concur with all of the above, and add that having one type of source often is not enough for WP:SIGCOV. They all seem to be from that country's ESPN, and are routine. Bearian (talk) 17:23, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 1966 FIFA World Cup squads. ✗plicit 03:42, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ha Jung-won

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 02:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect Always tough with North Korean footballers, however I suggest redirection to 1966 FIFA World Cup squads, where the name is listed. Regards. Govvy (talk) 08:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect – as already established in other AfD regarding North Korean players without any WP:SIGCOV. Svartner (talk) 11:01, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 1966 World Cup squads page as mentioned above. Anwegmann (talk) 19:22, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 19:53, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wondering, is there any North Korean athlete that would qualify under the current notability criteria? Seems a bit unfair since they have no real media... BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:34, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jong Il-gwan, Jong Tae-se Simione001 (talk) 22:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the sentiment here, even though, of course, there are a few examples that would pass current standards. I sincerely think there is a WP:BIAS issue with WP:GNG standards, at least as far as footballers are concerned. Anwegmann (talk) 01:07, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They're at a disadvantage for sure, but they still have a reasonable number of accessible media outlets. Mass media in North Korea, Category:News media in North Korea. Not to mention foreign coverage of them. Also some NK athletes have been discussed pretty heavily by the South Korean media during warmer periods in relations, but less frequent nowadays. toobigtokale (talk) 03:40, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 03:35, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Chon Byong-ju

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 02:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 11:01, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete because there is no reasonable target for a redirect. Anwegmann (talk) 19:20, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:53, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was draftify‎. ✗plicit 03:35, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Antoniou

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 02:12, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete or draftify. There is coverage, but the coverage is not significant enough because it details sports tournaments for children. Very far from notable as a club player. Geschichte (talk) 10:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify – As WP:AtD. Svartner (talk) 11:02, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify WP:TOOSOON par excellence. Anwegmann (talk) 19:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Drafify - not currently notable, but might be in future. Giant Snowman 19:53, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify Might be a valuable article in the foreseeable future, but it hasn't quite gotten there yet. --Brunnaiz (talk) 22:54, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify Too soon Killarnee (talk) 12:29, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per TOOSOON. Bearian (talk) 17:25, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to Ju-jitsu at the 2001 World Games – Men's fighting −77 kg. as an ATD. Personally, I won't do IAR AFD closures. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michel van Rijt

AfDs for this article:

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Fails Wikipedia:Notability (sports) LouisOrr27 (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Multiple medals on important tournaments, assistant national coach. The statistics mentioned Notability (sports) are largely collected after he ended his career. The Banner talk 23:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete. I read the consensus based on past debates that coaches, especially assistant coaches and similar staff people, are not automatically notable, and therefore, must pass WP:SIGCOV. Bearian (talk) 16:23, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- And his medals as a fighter? The Banner talk 16:59, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @The Banner, please read WP:NSPORT. Athletes are required to meet GNG and their pages must cite at least one GNG-contributing source, regardless of achievement. There is no presumption of notability through any means. JoelleJay (talk) 00:18, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  By using statistics that are mostly collected after he ended his career? That is not a fair way of judging older fighters. The Banner talk 00:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  What? What statistics? JoelleJay (talk) 16:07, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Wikipedia:NMMA The Banner talk 16:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @The Banner, no one is using NMMA as the basis of their !vote. Delete !voters are correctly citing GNG, which is required for the subject, and SPORTCRIT, which is required for the article. JoelleJay (talk) 01:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Please note that Wikipedia:NMMA is part of Wikipedia:Notability (sports), where WP:SPORTCRIT is also part of. The Banner talk 08:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A couple sentences preceding an interview is nowhere near enough IRS SIGCOV to contribute toward GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 00:20, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Ju-jitsu at the 2001 World Games – Men's fighting −77 kg as an ATD. Momentarily assistant national coach, article contains little context, main achievement (where he needs to be redirected) is not even listed! I hope all keep and delete sayers can get behind this ATD. gidonb (talk) 20:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete- Source appears to be unrelated to this page. Nilpriyo (talk) 10:13, 01 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Comment I'm having a hard time trying to figure out my vote, so I will lay out my ideas and let people more well-versed in WP figure it out. First, WP:NMMA is irrelevant since there's no evidence he was ever an MMA fighter. Second, I didn't find any significant independent coverage of him, although it may well have existed in Dutch sources at the time of his successes. Third, he was twice a bronze medalist at the world championships and won a silver medal at the World Games. I think the bronze medals are more significant since the World Games event had only 6 competitors in his division, but he was clearly a notable (in the non-WP sense of the word) in the field of jiu-jitsu. Perhaps this a good case for WP:IAR, but that's a new claim for me and may be misguided. Finally, the redirect suggest by Gidonb seems reasonable, as redirects are cheap. So I've laid out reasons for deleting, keeping, and redirecting the article. I'll close by saying I think his accomplishments seem to make deleting the article harsh, but not without justification. Papaursa (talk) 22:48, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:07, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vincent Masekesa

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Cricketer BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 21:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete in absence of suitable redirect Looks to fail WP:GNG, and with no lists of Zimbabwean cricketers there's no suitable redirect here per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:39, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tinashe Muchawaya

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Cricketer BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 21:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete in absence of suitable redirect Looks to be a WP:GNG fail, and with no suitable lists to redirect to for Zimbabwean cricketers, there's no WP:ATD here. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:38, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Less Unless (talk) 14:27, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Samarth Jurel

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:SIGCOV, credited roles in the acting career are only two i.e in Udaariyaan and Maitree respectively. Rest are uncredited roles , listed after his appearance in the Bigg Boss (Hindi season 17) reality show. Also personal life and career section also lacks enough sourcing to establish notibility. Imsaneikigai (talk) 16:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 March 26. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:28, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep as he has prominent roles in two notable television series as per WP:NACTOR as confirmed in reliable sources Atlantic306 (talk) 20:21, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The article is filled with reliable sources, so it should stay. He starred in 10 different shows including Maitree, Udaariyaan, Anupamaa, web series Taftish and a reality show Bigg Boss. Besides these, he appeared in a few famous ads too. --Princessruby (talk) 05:39, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. This person is not a cricketer, despite what the article claims in the lead. AA (talk) 14:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Per nom. Being a regular ITV audience, I can confirm that this actor has played only one significant role which was in Maitree. His role in Udaariyaan was short-term insignificant role which terminated in around 3-4 months. The other roles like in Anupamaa, Bhagya Lakshmi, Prem Bandhan were cameo roles. So, Mr. Jurel clearly doesn't pass WP:NACTOR nor WP:SIGCOV.117.230.7.136 (talk) 12:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: As per Nom. No significant role except Maitree. Plus any actor doesn't pass any notability on the base of any reality show like Bigg Boss or Splitsvilla unless he has some other notability beside it like nomination in any notable award or being ranked in Times List. Pri2000 (talk) 09:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or draftify as of now, until there is an addition of a significant role. ManaliJain (talk) 13:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: The Maitree role could be enough for notability, but we'd need extensive sourcing. Finishing 9th place on a reality show doesn't get you notability and I don't see enough coverage otherwise about the individual to have an article. Other roles are trivial or minor roles. Oaktree b (talk) 00:10, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Contributor892z (talk) 05:32, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Gillingham F.C. players (1–24 appearances). Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:07, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ron Bean

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The subject played a very small number of matches for a lower league semi-professional football team. The only sources appear to be databases and club histories. I'm curious to see if others think this person meets the notability criteria. JMWt (talk) 08:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Firstly Gillingham is a fully professional club, so your nomination is slightly floored there. I am curious why you didn't post a question to ChrisTheDude who is highly active on wikipedia about your concerns first instead of going straight to AfD. Govvy (talk) 09:20, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also think it should have been discussed with the user who created this page, having a look at the page history, it has been on Wikipedia for a fraction under 15 years. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 18:20, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, it doesn't seem to be a hugely unreasonable AfD. He only played 3 times professionally and the article itself states No further details of his career are known, which is essentially a confession that not much was written about him. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:23, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Govvy: - not that it's especially relevant to the AfD given that the whole "has played in a fully pro league" thing died a long time ago, but while the Gills may be fully pro now they (and all Third Division clubs) almost certainly weren't in the early 1950s. Articles reproduced in this book, which I own, makes it clear that many players at that level had jobs outside football at the time -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ChrisTheDude: Yes I know, I know that there were professional footballers in those days, but even know they were on full professional contracts and were paid, they were not paid enough and required second jobs. Govvy (talk) 11:16, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which is pretty much the definition of semi-professional sports:

Semi-professional sports are sports in which athletes are not participating on a full-time basis, but still receive some payment. Semi-professionals are not amateur because they receive regular payment from their team, but generally at a considerably lower rate than a full-time professional athlete. As a result, semi-professional players frequently have (or seek) full-time employment elsewhere. JMWt (talk) 13:17, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JMWt: Actually no, he was a full professional under contract and pay and having to train full time. There is no ifs and buts about it. Having a second job was to make up the money. Football at the time, league football was all fully professional, but the pay was lousy for the lower divisions. Govvy (talk) 21:29, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirecting to List of Gillingham F.C. players (1–24 appearances) is a possibility. Geschichte (talk) 16:21, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to List of Gillingham F.C. players (1–24 appearances) as valid ATD. Giant Snowman 21:50, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect – Per above. Svartner (talk) 11:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC, WP:SIGCOV, and WP:GNG generally. The delete vote is to fight against WP:BIAS. Anwegmann (talk) 16:27, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per GS as ATD. Can't see any harm in having a redir as opposed to outright deletion -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:11, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as R from member. Killarnee (talk) 15:19, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Idiosincrático (talk) 23:50, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Kell (footballer)

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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORT. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 20:49, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment To make this nom perfectly clear, I am conveying a WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE. I apologize for not making that clearer when I initiated the discussion. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 04:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Completely disagree with your assessment, did you bother doing a WP:BEFORE? First result, he became a pilot. [7], Shocking nomination, there are a number of those on a google search which easily passes WP:GNG, with some interviews. There are more sources for his footballing career. Govvy (talk) 09:11, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - judging by the PROD comment, this should be seen as a potential WP:BLPREQUESTDELETE as Richard Kell himself has requested deletion. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep per Govvy; over 100 professional appearances with coverage out there, clearly notable. Giant Snowman 19:09, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Govvy, WP:BEFORE not thoroughly completed. Notable footballer. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The request for removing this BLP came from an IP and it hasn't been verified. Also the IP showed irregular editing closer to vandalism, removing some cites that could be restored etc. So can it be even trusted? So the nominator requesting a change of nomination? Have you even been in contact with Richard Kell? I don't see any evidence of that. Govvy (talk) 08:25, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See VRTS ticket # 2024032510011024. You can ask a VRTS member for confirmation at the VRT noticeboard. Geoff | ^{Who, me?} 12:59, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – Per above. Svartner (talk) 11:04, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Clearly has a career worthy of notability. I agree with Govvy in full. This is very obvious. Anwegmann (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - obviously will be kept, with 100+ Football League appearances, but with the BLPREQUESTDELETE, I've deleted the birthdate - which doesn't seem necessary to me. Nfitz (talk) 19:26, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per WP:ATHLETE. Bhivuti45 (talk) 11:07, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rhonard García

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The subject made a single appearance for the Dominican Republic national football team a decade ago. I am unable to find enough coverage to meet WP:GNG; all I found were passing mentions in both English- and Spanish-language media. JTtheOG (talk) 20:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:08, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Fails WP:GNG. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete One international appearance and an unknown number of club appearances doesn't supersede WP:SIGCOV and WP:GNG standards, unfortunately. Anwegmann (talk) 16:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I'm not an expert, but playing one game (with no goals) is not sufficient to pass WP:FOOTY. De minimis non curat lex. Bearian (talk) 17:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails SIGCOV and NSPORT. Bhivuti45 (talk) 11:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:13, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Derick Sequeira

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The subject made a single appearance for the Nicaragua national football team a decade ago. I am unable to find enough coverage to meet WP:GNG; all I found were passing mentions in both English- and Spanish-language media. JTtheOG (talk) 20:17, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 19:08, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above. Fails WP:GNG. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete played only for semi-pro and/or amateur/academy teams. One international appearances doesn't supersede WP:SPORTBASIC. Anwegmann (talk) 16:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question to Anwegmann. Are thee appearances sufficient? I'm not an expert, but playing one game (with no goals) is not sufficient to pass WP:FOOTY (see De minimis non curat lex), but three might be. Bearian (talk) 17:34, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Bearian. There is some precedent here (and further discussed here) pointing to 20 international appearances as enough to supersede a lack of WP:SIGCOV and/or WP:SPORTBASIC. I'm all for using international appearances as a measure of notability, as I feel as though football articles suffer terribly from WP:BIAS. I've made that point clear several times, but Sequeira doesn't really reach any of thresholds I'm aware of, unfortunately. Anwegmann (talk) 19:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Three - probably not. But three appearances at the U-17 world cup, winning a bronze medal, with some media coverage is another question. Nfitz (talk) 19:30, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's a good point. Which is to say that I am more than happy to change my vote if we can arrive at some kind of consensus on this. Anwegmann (talk) 19:50, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails SPORTBASIC. Bhivuti45 (talk) 11:13, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above discussion. Thank you for answering my questions. Bearian (talk) 15:48, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 1977 WFA Cup final. Hey man im josh (talk) 12:20, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Carrie Staley (English footballer)

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She fails GNG. Sources in the article do not cover Staley in depth. An archive search only found mentions in match reports. Dougal18 (talk) 11:40, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to 1977 WFA Cup final as sole clam to fame. Giant Snowman 19:07, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per above. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I'm finding a lot of hits in the British Newspaper Archive from the 1970s - but my Wikipedia subscription has expired. Can someone with access please look into these? Many at the top aren't match reports. Nfitz (talk) 19:21, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Many of the top hits are match reports. There is no sigcov of her in the articles.Dougal18 (talk) 11:27, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:30, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Danny Neudecker

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Fails WP:NSKATE; has neither won a medal at an international competition, nor has he won the U.S. national championships at the senior level. Bgsu98 (Talk) 03:19, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nica Digerness

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Fails WP:NSKATE; has neither won a medal at an international competition, nor has she won the U.S. national championships. Bgsu98 (Talk) 03:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Megan Wessenberg

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Fails WP:NSKATE; has neither won a senior-level medal at any international competition, nor has won the U.S. national championships. Bgsu98 (Talk) 14:44, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Not eligible for Soft Deletion. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I'm not seeing the sustained and substantial coverage in independent reliable sources needed to meet the inclusion criteria. JMWt (talk) 09:50, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I am unable to find enough coverage to meet WP:GNG. The closest to WP:SIGCOV that I found was this and this. JTtheOG (talk) 02:10, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Naushad Iqbal

AfDs for this article:

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The subject doesn't meet WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG in absence of any significant and independent coverage about the player. Fails WP:NCRIC either, as he doesn't have participation in any of the matches listed in WP:OFFCRIC. Previously, it was soft deleted through AFD, but has again been created. Robo^Cric Let's chat 14:05, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete in absence of suitable redirect My view remains the same as the previous AfD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:34, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 14:07, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete doesn't look to pass WP:GNG, and there isn't a sensible list article for cricketers from that team for a redirect. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was no consensus‎. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 11:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mariusz Latkowski

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Original nomination statement: I couldn't find any significant coverage of this bobsleigh athlete that would meet WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. All news that came up in my searches are passing mentions (TVP Sport and Wrocław Naszemiasto), as well as silly, random namesakes. Corresponding article on Polish Wikipedia article has been tagged for not having sources except external links for 2010; no major edits since 2022. CuteDolphin712 (talk) 10:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Revised nomination statement as of 13 March 2024: Despite having achieved two medals, I couldn't find enough significant coverage of this bobsleigh athlete that would meet WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG. Everything that came up in my searches are brief mentions (TVP Sport and Wrocław Naszemiasto), as well as silly, random namesakes. Corresponding article on Polish Wikipedia article has been tagged for not having sources except external links for 14 years; no major edits since 2022. CuteDolphin712 (talk) 10:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Poland. CuteDolphin712 (talk) 10:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Doesn't look very notable to me; won't be deleted from pl wiki where participation in Olympics grans notability, unlike here. Shrug. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, subject is a multiple-time international medallist in athletics and is covered by both Polish and English sources; see [8] for coverage in just one Polish newspaper. WP:ATD: Redirect to 1999 European Athletics Junior Championships where the athlete won his highest medal. --Habst (talk) 14:14, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that the nomination statement was edited in Special:Diff/1213511699. It's fine to edit it, but I think it is fair to note the changes made in the discussion because the nomination is in part what we are responding to. --Habst (talk) 14:42, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 11:44, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 17:23, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question - Catch me if I'm wrong, but doesn't winning international medals automatically give a pass at AfD? Bearian (talk) 16:40, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Senior medals, maybe. These were underage medals, from competitions with dramatically less stadium attendance, TV time and overall media attention. However, a relatively small athletics meet might still generate more coverage than a relatively big competition in, say, canoeing Geschichte (talk) 17:16, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, because "automatic notability" doesn't exist as part of WP:NSPORT. It's a guideline that "significant coverage is likely to exist", but for some people meeting the criteria (which this one doesn't anyway), there may not be that coverage. Joseph2302 (talk) 13:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 05:35, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2020/21 in 60 metres

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Wikipedia is not a statistics database. It seems entirely random to list the top 50 in a given event, with an international final only consisting of 8 or 9 competitors, whereas the wider field reaching as far down as top 50 are never talked about as an interconnected group. Why not top 25? Or top 100? Category:Year rankings in athletics is still a fledgling project, so it's time to nip it in the bud. Geschichte (talk) 21:06, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sport of athletics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 22:14, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep, I completely agree with @Geschichte's comments above, however that isn't an argument for deletion. If we want to make the article only about the top 8 or top 25, then please edit the article to do that, and let's work on it together.

The top two or three 60 metres sprinters in any given year are very frequently talked about as a group, as the 60 metres is the marquee event of indoor athletics – by far the most popular and documented event as the shortest in all of athletics. It's also important because it's covered as a bellwether for the outdoor season, as proven by the fact that leading the 2021 60 m was arguably Marcel Jacobs' biggest accomplishment before winning the 2021 Olympic 100 m title later that year. Despite there being no World Athletics Indoor Championships in 2021, there was still a men's and women's European Championship, a NCAA Championship and an entire indoor World Tour that had many world class men's and women's 60 m races. Here are some relevant articles focusing on the 60m during that season:

"Women's 60 metres sprint in the spotlight in Karlsruhe". Watch Athletics. 28 Jan 2021. Retrieved 2024-03-12.
Sampaolo, Diego. "Third time lucky at European Indoors, Jacobs now turns his attention to outdoor world stage | FEATURE | World Athletics". worldathletics.org. Retrieved 2024-03-12.
Weir, Stuart (2021-03-07). "Alja Del Pointe takes the 60m in WL 7.03, equalling Swiss NR, 2021 European Indoor championships". runblogrun. Retrieved 2024-03-12.

Most importantly, Category:Year rankings in athletics articles serve an important structural need as they are linked to for context in Category:Events at athletics (track and field) competitions, for example see the link from "World Leading" at this page. They are also useful to be linked to in the "season's bests" sections of Category:Events in track and field articles.

Thanks, --Habst (talk) 00:17, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Lists of people. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:35, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Individual competitions being covered or Marcell Jacobs performing well do not lend relevance to a list of unrelated performers. This is a list and therefore the athletes in it have to be covered as a group, otherwise it fails WP:NOT. Habst provides no policy-based reason to keep the article, and instead showcases the same synthesizing reasoning as at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2015 World Youth Championships in Athletics – Boys' javelin throw: A medium wrote about the world ranking once, therefore Wikipedia must list a large portion of the world ranking. Geschichte (talk) 08:48, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, I really appreciate and in fact agree with your arguments about the top 50 being unwarranted. But again, while that is a good reason for limiting the scope of the article that isn't a valid reason for deletion under P&G. None of the articles I linked mention world ranking, nor does this article; the world ranking is different than the event as a whole in that year.
Looking at WP:NOT, I think you're referring to WP:NOTCATALOG prong 2, which specifically carves out, Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference. WP:NOT doesn't say anything about lists having to be covered as a group (the word "group" only appears 4 times on that page in other contexts). I think the more relevant policy is WP:NLIST, which specifically says Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability, and I discussed the navigational/informational aids (in world lead lists and event lists) above. Thanks, --Habst (talk) 12:24, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Limiting the scope of the article". What article? There is no article here, just two statistical lists swiped from WA. WP:NOTSTATS applies, and as a list its informational purposes run afoul of WP:SYNTH. Yes, athletics fans understand them and can interpret them, which is why several statistic websites, including the article's only sources, provide year lists just fine. Geschichte (talk) 12:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, I understand you're being sarcastic, but of course it is a list article because it contains a list. The fact that it's unexplained per WP:NOTSTATS means that we should explain it; this is only an argument for deletion if you think that it's impossible to reasonably explain the subject.

WP:SYNTH does not apply here, taking the two main points:
Does it combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source? No, the article doesn't reach any "conclusion" not stated by sources.

Does it combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source? No, same reasoning.

The important policy point here for WP:NLIST is the navigational and informational aid, as when someone goes to the 2021 European Athletics Indoor Championships – Men's 60 metres page, it's helpful to click the "world lead" button and see the landscape of the 60 metres in that year leading in to the competition.

Also, I think that your argument (which, to be fair, I fully agree with except for I don't think it is a reason for deletion) applies to all 72 pages in Category:Year rankings in athletics. Can you edit the nomination to include them all, so we won't have to re-hash this conversation 71 other times in the future? Thanks, --Habst (talk) 13:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ATD: Move to Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics/Tasks/Top 60 athletes (2020-2021) as the red-link lists are helpful for editors, similar to existing project-space pages like Wikipedia:WikiProject Athletics/Tasks/Top 10 athletes (2015). --Habst (talk) 13:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:45, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This consists mainly of text lifted from another source, and as such it may violate copyright. In any case, why limit it to 2020/21? Are no more recent data available? Athel cb (talk) 10:49, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Athel cb, the reason why it is limited to 2020–21 is because the 60 metres international yearly circuit is primarily contested from December to March (i.e. overlapping two calendar years). For an overview of all years, you can just click on the 60 metres page but this is limited to just one season of competition. For example 2020–21 NFL playoffs is limited to just one season of the NFL Playoffs while NFL playoffs covers all seasons.

Understanding this, what do you think? Also, to address your copyright concerns, we can limit the list in size and make the article primarily about the international medalists that year, i.e. discuss this race, this race, this 60 m race, this one, and these 60 m races and make it less about just one list. Thanks, --Habst (talk) 16:23, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So far as your first paragraph is concerned, OK. So far as the second is concerned I think you need to do more to avoid copyright violation. Athel cb (talk) 16:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Athel cb, I don't want to derail the conversation too much but my understanding is that simple lists of sports results (in this case, names and times) without any element of creative curation (the times are simply listed from fastest to slowest with no advanced analysis done) is not copyrightable in the U.S., not falling into any of the categories here (source). FWIW, there is actually an identical list independently compiled on WP:Tilastopaja here so it's not like this data is unique to World Athletics. Simply Googling each name and time in quotes shows that most entries have associated news coverage about them, so it wouldn't be too difficult to add a cite for each row. Thanks, --Habst (talk) 17:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For example, there are large tables of information in articles like Athletics at the 2020 Summer Olympics – Men's decathlon, but I don't think the Wikipedia community considers this a copyright violation because it's simply a list of sporting results, as long as our prose-based analysis is not copied. --Habst (talk) 17:54, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:00, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. Reviewing this discussion again, I don't see a consensus but I have some questions that were brought up by editors here. First, Top 60 does seem like an arbitrary cut-off point. But, as mentioned, this could be addressed through editing. And it does seem like Wikipedia has a variety of articles like this like Athletics at the 2020 Summer Olympics – Men's decathlon as mentioned so having an article with a table of sports results has an established place on the project. So, what I'm wondering is about this page move suggested, would editors arguing for Delete be okay if this content was moved to exist under the umbrella of a relevant WikiProject while the content was edited and improved? This would be with the caveat that the page couldn't just be moved back to main space. What do you think?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep – I perfectly understand the nomination and the problems that this list presents, but I consider that the 100m race (60m during the pandemic period) is the noblest in athletics, and a list of best times is not unnecessarily just a random list like in some sport with less notability. I see potential/logic in the article. Svartner (talk) 04:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL now that said article has been created. History remains if there is material that still needs to be merged. It is unclear to this closer. Star Mississippi 02:04, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of starting quarterbacks in the XFL

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Subject does not meet the WP:LISTN as this is not a grouping discussed in secondary sources. I found some lists of the quarterbacks in the league, but not specifically for starting quarterbacks. Let'srun (talk) 21:09, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists of people, Sports, American football, and Lists. Let'srun (talk) 21:09, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also a courtesy ping to @BeanieFan11, who removed the initial PROD. Let'srun (talk) 21:10, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Let'srun: I found some lists of the quarterbacks in the league, but not specifically for starting quarterbacks. Care to share the lists you found? If there is sufficient sourcing to establish notability for a list of XFL quarterbacks, but not specifically the starting quarterbacks, then perhaps this could be a "keep and move" situation to something like List of XFL quarterbacks. Left guide (talk) 00:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found the same one you did. Let'srun (talk) 02:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll also note that, within the context of other articles about the league, that there is substantial information about starting quarterbacks' roles. Going back to 2020, there was a lot of reporting on starting QB salary being higher than other position players, which in and of itself establishes notability. I'll add that one to the article and others. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 00:03, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: From what I can see, none of the sources in the current version of the article count towards the notability of the article topic, since they appear to discuss NFL quarterbacks (and to a lesser extent quarterbacks as a general concept), so the sources are supporting the article in a synthetic manner and the actual list is unsourced original research, but I found this source that specifically addresses XFL quarterbacks. Left guide (talk) 00:44, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not enough specific coverage of starting quarterbacks at any point in time to justify a separate article. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:15, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: WP:Otherstuffexists as there's an article for Lists of starting quarterbacks in the USFL, List of starting quarterbacks in the National Football League and List of Super Bowl starting quarterbacks - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 00:09, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll note that the USFL article features nearly identical text to the one currently being discussed and is at substantial risk of a similar deletion nomination should the original nominee so choose. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 23:52, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Other stuff exists is also part of Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, it isn't a reason to keep this one. If anything, it's a reason to consider deleting some of those too (though NFL Superbowl starting QBs do get a lot of coverage, unlike QBs in this league). Joseph2302 (talk) 16:19, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By pointing out WP:OSE (which I will continue to do), I am not suggesting keep or delete. I am merely pointing it out for possible merge. Ignoring the existence of other articles seems irrational to me. We should be aware of everything relevant in the main space. Whether you want to merge, keep or delete is up to you. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 17:00, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as currently structured due to complete lack of sourcing, ergo no establishment of notability and possible listcruft. In theory, going through individual quarterbacks' articles alone, there is enough material and sourcing to justify a list article—but I would prefer, given the structure of the UFL, that if such sourcing is established, that it be merged into its USFL counterpart, given that it is a historical list (see also: Timeline of the XFL and USFL) and that now-defunct teams be included as Former USFL and XFL teams in a separate section. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 23:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment I have made some revisions to the article to make the lede more relevant to the XFL in particular in hopes of establishing notability and withdraw my vote to delete. My suggestion to merge remains. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 00:35, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL. Cards84664 01:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 17:04, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. If we don't have sources for this group, it should not exist as a standalone list, nor should should it be merged elsewhere.

JoelleJay (talk) 20:43, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sources have been added to establish notability so that issue has been addressed. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 22:35, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where? I see sources for some individual entries, but nothing treating the list topic as a group. JoelleJay (talk) 23:25, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Individual articles discussing within the context of being a starting quarterback in the XFL/UFL. Individual articles discussing the relevance and importance of the position (especially in regard to salary). That crosses into GNG territory and no longer qualifies the topic for deletion.

If one must rise to the order of picking nits over subject focus of sources, it likely does not rise to the level where deletion would be warranted. That said, restructuring of the artlcle if/when the merger is proposed, I would like to see it trimmed to a comparable standard as the NFL starting quarterback in that the current/most recent example is the only one that needs to be listed, as there likely is nowhere near enough sourcing—at least anything rising beyond ROUTINE coverage—to warrant such listcruft. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 23:46, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What you are describing is an article on the starting QB position in the XFL, not a list of them. To qualify for NLIST, that topic must have GNG coverage. JoelleJay (talk) 04:26, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JoelleJay: There are these two sources treating XFL quarterbacks as a group, (one of which is referenced in this article) but I don't know if it's enough to establish notability. At a minimum, it should qualify for a merge though. Left guide (talk) 02:33, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The first of those is about XFL starting QBs as a position, not a list of individual QBs; in fact it only mentions one player. The second is not an independent source as ESPN has a broadcast contract with the XFL and therefore has a strong financial incentive to cover the league. The article is also not on starting QBs, so its coverage is irrelevant anyway. JoelleJay (talk) 04:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as the discussion seems to be ongoing between those editors arguing for Delete and those advocating a Merge. I'll just add that I assume the proposed Merge target article is Lists of starting quarterbacks in the USFL as there is no article at Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL page title.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:00, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz: The XFL and USFL themselves are merging into a new UFL league, hence the intended merge target. Cards84664 16:44, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A new merge target has to be created first, regardless of the fact that the leagues have merged. I still oppose a merge since I don't see the sourcing needed to support it. Let'srun (talk) 19:06, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cards84664, I didn't say that the subject didn't exist, just that the article didn't exist. We can't merge this article into a nonexistent page. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:16, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Yes, UFL because USFL and XFL are merging next season (see United Football League (2024) — Preceding unsigned comment added by BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk • contribs) 17:24, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting for either delete or better merge target consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 03:46, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Why not just rename Lists of starting quarterbacks in the USFL to Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL and merge XFL to the new UFL article? - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 04:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds too complicated for an AFD closure. That is something that can be handled if this article is Kept. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep with the intent of merging this and the USFL article together to form Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL. This can be done off AFD as descrbed above by Liz. Frank Anchor 20:00, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to redirect to the now-created Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL. It looks like the necessary content is already merged into the target, but anything else that would need merged can be pulled from the article history. Frank Anchor 14:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also applaud User:Cards84664 for WP:BOLDLY creating the UFL list and incorporating much of the content from the former XFL and USFL lists. Frank Anchor 14:14, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Close as moot - Merged to Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL. Cards84664 18:20, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cards84664: Such as move should not occur until this AfD is concluded. Let'srun (talk) 20:19, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cards84664 please do not redirect or move articles while an AFD discussion is still open. Consensus still has yet to be determined. Thanks for starting an article though. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:27, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Lists of starting quarterbacks in the UFL has now been created. Would a simple Redirect be appropriate or is there still content that needs to be Merged?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:30, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect - all content has been merged and updated. Cards84664 03:35, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cards84664, I realize that you think this, in part because you created the article, I would just like to hear opinions from other editors. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:42, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per Cards84664. If the merged article does not meet GNG (or other guidelines) then that should go to AfD. Rlendog (talk) 12:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to the new UFL list. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:37, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. The recent RFC on athletes ties my hands, we have to abide by the guidelines it set and those editors arguing for Deletion have rejected the sources brought forward by those editors advocating Keep as being ROUTINE coverage. The new policy rules out even a "No consensus" closure. If an editor would like this article draftified or moved to their User space, let me know or put in a request at WP:REFUND Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:53, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hassan Houbeib

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:17, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Africa. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:17, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep A regular national team player who plays in a league that gets pretty much zero regular coverage. He has no chance of SIGCOV even though he is clearly notable for Mauritanian football. Anwegmann (talk) 22:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Zero regular coverage" and "no chance", you mean coverage in English, right? I wouldn't know how to conduct a meaningful search in his alphabet, but he featured at the 2023 Africa Cup of Nations just a month ago. Geschichte (talk) 08:51, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His appearance at 2024 AFCON speaks to my point, I think. The Mauritanian and Iraqi leagues don't receive much coverage from trustworthy media sources—French, English, or Arabic—and individual Mauritanian players in the local league and more "obscure," for lack of a better word, leagues receive even less. My point is that a strict interpretation of WP:SIGCOV, without taking larger context and performance into account, skews coverage on Wikipedia away from non-Western players, venturing into WP:BIAS territory. Because Houbeib has appeared more than a dozen times for a national team and appeared in a major continental tournament recently that was broadcast around the world, to me, his notability is established. Would I like to see more significant coverage in classical media sources? Yes, of course. But in this case, I don't think it's required to keep the article. This isn't a third-division semi-pro player who represented his country once at under-19 level. This is a regular player for a national team that qualified for and played in a continental tournament. Anwegmann (talk) 16:21, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was just made aware of this AfD in another discussion circling around the possibility of inherent notability due to national team caps. If anything, this provides some precedent for what I'm saying. I acknowledge, though, that 15 national team caps is a bit low for inherent notability, given the precedent established in the linked AfD. That said, though, appearance in the 2023 Africa Cup of Nations reasonably adds to this player's notability. I would be willing to change my vote to "draftify" if we can reach some kind of consensus about this. Anwegmann (talk) 16:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify: the cap tally is now 21. I also believe that we are now far, far into WP:BIAS territory. There is a difference between a performing team like Mauritania and insignificant countries (within football) such as Belize and Nepal. But, alas: sources. Geschichte (talk) 08:00, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although I don't fully agree that there is a difference between national teams, as they each have fundamental value in world football, I agree with your sentiment and overall point here. Houbeib continues to appear for a national team that recently performed in a continental tournament. This is well into the realm of WP:BIAS. Anwegmann (talk) 01:06, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 17:28, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 17:31, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - He has international caps therefore he is undoubtedly notable. IJA (talk) 10:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which guideline states this? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:31, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, if even the editors advocating to keep this article acknowledge there is not and will not be IRS SIGCOV then clearly a standalone article is not warranted. JoelleJay (talk) 19:29, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep - coverage found here (signing), here (signing), here (contract extension), and probably many more Arabic-language sources. All I did was search the player's Arabic name (الحسن سالم احويبيب) and some immediate results came back. I can't read or understand Arabic so my search ended after these three articles— but I'm sure there's way more. Then, we need to consider that the bar for Mauritanian footballers' coverage is lower than for Western players, as there is just naturally more media coverage of sports in Western countries in general. Lastly, this guy has made 20+ caps for a prominent African national team, and has competed at a MAJOR tournament. The evidence of coverage existing, the threshold being at a certain level, and the prominence of the player all bring me to the conclusion that article needs to be kept & improved. I'd even suggest a page move to fix currently incorrect page title. Paul Vaurie (talk) 01:06, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GiantSnowman and The Herald: Sources found. Paul Vaurie (talk) 01:08, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You should ping JoelleJay. I simply relisted. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 01:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those sources are the definition of routine, trivial transactional coverage, not to mention non-independent since almost everything in them is quoted from the club. And the first two are essentially identical! Why would you link to those sources as evidence of SIGCOV if you didn't even read them?? JoelleJay (talk) 01:47, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that these sources don't appear enough. Giant Snowman 19:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman and JoelleJay: Y'all have your bar set way too high for coverage of this player. You must remember that the subject is a Mauritanian footballer—not English, German, but Mauritanian. Also, playing at a major tournament like AFCON definitely means that Arabic-language sources exist... deleting this article would start a slippery slope in which hundreds non-Western articles would get deleted simply due to a lack of easily-findable coverage by editors that exclusively use Latin-alphabet keyboards. Take some time to do a proper Arabic-language search instead of bashing this article and not giving it much thought.
In my opinion, the surface-level presence of Arabic-language sources shows that relative to the depth of all coverage of Mauritania-related topics, this player has some kind of notability. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:09, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Even more digging shows plenty of stuff about him popping up. this, this, and notably this. Yes, there is a routine feel to the coverage, but there's just a point where you have to understand that the bar is not as high as it would be for a player playing in Western Europe. The fact that there's just this many articles on a relatively obscure Mauritanian footballer says something. Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If this article is deleted, we could probably delete 50% of all articles about footballers from Arabic-language countries where media coverage is harder to find. That's not a good thing. I understand there are deletionists, but this isn't an article that should be deleted, especially considering how prominent this player is in African football. (Yes, competing at two AFCONs is quite prominent, I think). Paul Vaurie (talk) 23:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that there is just naturally more media coverage of sports in Western countries in general is literally why more athletes from Western countries are notable. If a subject doesn't get IRS SIGCOV then by definition it is not notable! What you are arguing is for us to reinstate presumptions of coverage--or even inherent notability--based on the subject reaching some arbitrary, subjective level of achievement, but such presumptions have been repeatedly and near-unanimously rejected.
Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 54#Renewed proposal for association football (soccer)
Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 55#Should we soften the phrase "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject, excluding database sources."?
Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 52#Proposed Notability criteria track and field athletes (see WP:NTRACK) The community has rejected participation-based notability criteria even when a single appearance in some league or tournament empirically predicts SIGCOV 100% of the time; there is thus 0% chance of us accepting any criterion whose SIGCOV predictive power isn't supported by any evidence at all. JoelleJay (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 2022 RfC made it clear the requirement for SPORTCRIT SIGCOV applies to all athletes, regardless of location or time. We do not change our bar for coverage based on where the subject is from. Conferring notability to some geographical subset of subjects via the exact same routine, trivial, and non-independent sources we dismiss for subjects everywhere else in the world is patronizing and would only encourage applying those same standards to progressively less encyclopedic tiers of Western subjects. And presuming actual SIGCOV does exist based only on the presence of such low-quality non-GNG sources is exactly what was deprecated through wide consensus two years ago.

The 4th source you link is identical to source #3, #5 is trivial coverage of the same topic, and literally the only secondary independent coverage of Houbeib in #6 is Al-Zawraa player, Mauritanian Al-Hassan Ahouibib, joined the team's training today, Monday, after the end of his vacation, which was granted to him with the cancellation of last season. The rest is taken directly from the club. This is the case for all of the sources you've linked: a couple sentences of routine transactional announcements interspersed with "the club said [blahblahblah]" and more general updates on the club as a whole. JoelleJay (talk) 00:42, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you think this article aught to be deleted, I urge you to start nominating every single other similar player article that has "less" notability than this guy. You'll find that there's much more coverage of this guy than some other players who survived AfD in the past or that have articles that happen to exist despite probably failing GNG/SPORTCRIT. I stand firmly in my belief that we're being too harsh here and that the coverage is enough. Also, how did you brush by these sentences?
1. Al-Hassan Ahwaibib is considered one of the reasons for the strength of Al-Zawraa’s defense during the past season, due to its consistent level during the tournament.
2.Huwaibib plays as a libero. He played great matches with Al-Zawraa last season, and succeeded in convincing coach Ayoub Odisho to renew with the team and lead the defense line...
These seem like notable secondary independent coverage of the subject. That's three different sources offering secondary coverage. Who says there isn't more? I can't properly do an Arabic-language search and this is what I found easily. Paul Vaurie (talk) 04:20, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you can find significant, Arabic-language coverage, then great., I'll happily re-consider. Giant Snowman 19:03, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You will find that I have been extremely consistent in supporting deletion of hundreds of subjects with this level of coverage. We are slowly working through the backlog of poorly-sourced articles, so just because many still exist doesn't mean their standards of coverage are endorsed.
Those are among the routine, trivial sentences that I referenced above. We would not consider someone in the 5th tier of English football to meet GNG with such sources, we should not lower our standards just because you think footballers in certain regions deserve articles. JoelleJay (talk) 19:35, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist. I can't close this as Keep if there is no SIGCOV because the decision would be immediately taken to WP:Deletion review where the closure would be overturned. The possibility of Draftifying was raised, would this be an acceptable outcome until better sourcing can be located, perhaps in Arabic media sources?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:04, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Sources are trivial and routine. If the subject does not receive significant coverage, there is nothing that can be done. Additionally, the argument pointing to the existence of other articles related to players from Arabic-speaking countries is irrelevant per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS.

Industrial Insect (talk) 18:22, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Nothing but routine transfer and signing news popping up. There are many many places online where somone can view the statistics and team history of a soccer player; Wikipedia needn't be one of them. Mach61 — Preceding undated comment added 07:39, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm concerned that someone would say that Mauritius is an Arabic-speaking country. There's probably more Arabic spoken in many western countries than Mauritius! Nfitz (talk) 20:18, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Nfitz: Why do you keep mentioning Mauritius? We're talking about a Mauritanian player. Paul Vaurie (talk) 09:36, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops - Mauritanian not Mauritian. Well, I should stop searching the Mauritian media! Aren't I the fool! Nfitz (talk) 11:55, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - there's nothing in WP:ROUTINE that says that articles about transfers are routine coverage; the example given there is "sports score" and "sports matches". If one wants to play by the "rules" that no longer make an international player (let alone with 20+ caps for his nation), one needs to not exaggerate the other "rules". Nfitz (talk) 19:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even if transactional announcements weren't overwhelmingly considered routine by editors at AfD, as you well know, the sources above also fail independence by simply repeating what club officials have said, and fail SIGCOV by being trivial. Do you have any evidence of actual IRS SIGCOV or are you really claiming that the sources above that even other keep !voters acknowledge is routine and non-significant actually meet GNG? JoelleJay (talk) 19:44, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The bottom line is what's in policy and guidelines - not what a few editors have pushed. I don't believe the claims of lack of independence are correct - how is this not independent? I'll admit photographs of him playing in major Canadian newspapers don't count for anything - other than my surprise. Nfitz (talk) 20:15, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nfitz, the issue is that these short articles are primary sources (see WP:NEWSPRIMARY), and primary sources do not establish notability. Unlike secondary sources, they contain no original analysis or synthesis of existing primary sources Mach61 01:37, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see User talk:Mach61, how the that is an primary source. Also, can you please explain why Rimsport and Cridem are not independent. Nfitz (talk) 04:14, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nfitz May you please stop trying to preform a Gish gallop and actually address my argument. I said nothing about independence, and I explained why I thought those sources were primary. Mach61 12:06, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wow - so rude. Why? I do not understand why you think that Rimsport and Cridem are primary sources. I don't see where you've explained why they are primary sources - you've simply stated they are. They don't look primary to me. Nfitz (talk) 16:11, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Nfitz Most every source you've brought so far is primary because they are original materials that are close to an event. As explained at WP:NEWSPRIMARY, a newspaper article is a primary source if it reports events, but a secondary source if it analyses and comments on those events. I called what you are doing a Gish gallop because you are not actually adressing the reasoning behind the arguments I have made, but are merely stating them to be incorrect without elaboration. Cheers, Mach61 20:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Arguments? What arguments? You simply said it was primary, without even trying to explain why. And why pretend I've provided multiple sources, when I provided one, that despite multiple polite requests, you won't even discuss. This is not okay - you can't just make stuff up in AFD, User:Mach61. Nfitz (talk) 20:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please explain (or retract) User:Mach61? Nfitz (talk) 22:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No 🗿 Mach61 23:30, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For example, routine news coverage of announcements, events, sports, or celebrities, while sometimes useful, is not by itself a sufficient basis for inclusion of the subject of that coverage
Do you seriously need the policy to spell out "routine news coverage of announcements such as sports transaction announcements, ..."?
Someone else quoting/relaying information from primary non-independent sources does not make that information secondary and independent.
What you link now was not among the "sources above" that I referenced in my comment. It is still clearly routine transactional news of dubious independence--more than likely it is purely derived from the club's press release. JoelleJay (talk) 00:07, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The policy mention sports scores and sports matches. And that's the test for having an article about a match; not even for using it as a source. The article hardly reads like a press release, as it includes too much context. I don't think you can use a hypothesis of it being a reprint of a press release that you can't find as the basis for anything here. And really - 20 international caps - is this the hill to have a borderline debate about? Given the lack of online Mauritanian news, we should probably defer this until there's a good database of Mauritanian news. Nfitz (talk) 02:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not quoting ROUTINE. I am quoting WP:NOTNEWS policy. Newspapers report on every transfer announcement with similar depth and little independent secondary contribution, with almost all facts derived from the club's press release. That is the definition of "routine news coverage of announcements ... [and] sports".
We have multiple people advising that Mauritanian news doesn't provide SIGCOV of this topic in general. We don't have any evidence to suggest otherwise, and we had global consensus to deprecate any presumption that such coverage exists based on number of matches or tournament appearances. JoelleJay (talk) 16:20, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If I follow that logic to the end, doesn't it mean not mentioning any transfers of players in most articles - unless like something tragic happens during the transfer. Nfitz (talk) 22:31, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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