Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways

Unreferenced articles backlog drive

As you may be aware, there is currently a drive to reduce unreferenced articles on wikipedia (WP:FEB24). The List of closed railway stations in Norfolk is one of the oldest unreferenced articles. It shouldn't be too hard to fully reference it, should it? Mjroots (talk) 15:50, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

• Anyone who has a copy of RVJ Butt [1] would probably be able to source the whole thing. Black Kite (talk) 19:07, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

  I'll try to get my hands on my Butt next week(!) — Voice of Clam (talk) 19:22, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

  Quick is more reliable than Butt and it's freely available on-line here There's a template {{Quick-stations-5.05}} for it's use. Nthep (talk) 19:52, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, but trying to find my Quick doesn't have the same double-entendre — Voice of Clam (talk) 22:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

  you didn't fancy a quickie in Norfolk then? :-P Nthep (talk) 22:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

  As the first contributor of a book reference to the list, I've gone with {{sfn}} for book references. I've had a look at Quick, and it seems pretty comprehensive. A number of different sources is better than relying too much on one source. Mjroots (talk) 05:20, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Mjroots: Please could you give the specific pages, rather than the same range for all of them? You'll see how I did that for the Butt refs. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Redrose64: - that is a chapter entitled "The Marriott's Way". However, the relevant info is on the first two pages. Refs amended. Mjroots (talk) 12:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  @Voice of Clam: Everyone has at least one quick; I have twenty. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

  There's an appropriate follow-up but I can't quite put my finger on it. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 12:32, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I love adding references and it is one of my pet peeves of articles in general without references. Pardon my ignorance on this, but is there a list of UK railway articles apart from this one that need attention? GRALISTAIR (talk) 14:35, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

@GRALISTAR: I don't know if there is anything more granular than this, as these are not specific to UK rail, but the maintenance category Category:Unreferenced rail transport articles (and the related Category:Rail transport articles needing additional references) provide a starting point. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 14:39, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry @GRALISTAIR:, a typo in your username prevented the "ping" working. Hassocks5489 (Floreat Hova!) 14:40, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

That is great thankyou and no need to apologize. GRALISTAIR (talk) 14:45, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Should CTRL be put first in the lead or HS1?

Normally, regardless of the title, MOS:LEAD sections always contain the legal (possibly official) name first followed by the WP:COMMONNAME. So an article about Southeastern (train operating company) says

• SE Trains Limited, trading as Southeastern

While an article about a person will normally always display their real/legal/official/full name followed by the common name (article title) if appropriate.

I made this edit to HS1, swapping HS1 and CTRL before getting reverted. Is the case of HS1s alternative names different to Southeastern or Northern since these are companies (and will display their legal name not used in sources), but HS1 is a railway?

I also added Eurostar next to Network Rail in that edit. JuniperChill (talk) 12:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

HS1 isn't a company, so why? Where in MOS:LEAD is priority to legal names given? MOS:BOLDLEAD allows for the widely accepted name too, while MOS:LEADSENTENCE states that if the article title and legal name are related then the latter can be put first, like the UK's full name first at United Kingdom. TOCs probably refer to MOS:FIRSTCORP as it is a company, HS1 isn't. But have seen recent "official name-mania" being enforced across Wikipedia recently, so clearer guidelines are preferred. The infobox has National Rail not Network Rail, but if HS1 is part of another continental system would make sense to add something else too, but Eurostar itself isn't a "system"? DankJae 14:04, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I made the decision to withdraw my plan to swap CTRL and HS1 in the lead, since I thought legal/official names always goes first like in the case of Southeastern.

I also got Network Rail and National Rail mixed up, but I might be able to add Network Rail in the operators section but why isn't it there yet or a good reason is why? JuniperChill (talk) 14:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Neither National Rail nor Network Rail are operators. Network Rail do not own or manage HS1, their only connection to it is that a subsidiary company is contracted to act as infrastructure manager and to carry out maintenance. Thryduulf (talk) 14:42, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

@Thryduulf, the actual parameter changed was system not the operators one. But tbh, even if {{Infobox rail line}} gives National Rail as an example that isn't really a system either? There really isn't one other than just the Great Britain railway system? DankJae 16:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

(Also, Eurostar is not an infrastructure manager, and is merely an operator that runs on the line) Turini2 (talk) 17:19, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Southeastern (train operating company)

An editor has requested that Southeastern (train operating company) be moved to Southeastern (train operating company, 2021–), which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion.. Thryduulf (talk) 13:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:South Western Railway (train operating company)

An editor has requested that South Western Railway (train operating company) be moved to South Western Railway, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Jalen Folf (talk) 19:44, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

"route" parameter for services on station articles

Hi, @Skivermac16111994, has been massively changing the route= parameter at {{rail line}} from the name of the line to the destinations of the line on station articles (mainly those starting with "H" for now).
With some errors added along the way, for example they changed "Wirral Line (Chester branch)" and replaced it with "Hooton - Liverpool Lime Street or New Brighton or West Kirby" (trains don't go to the latter two from Hooton),[2] as well as "South West Main Line" replaced with "London Waterloo - Weymouth". Just raising due to the scale of the edits, but could be justified, but consensus first? Although using the destinations may require more maintenance and accuracy. The examples at {{rail line}} state the company and rail line (e.g. Great Western Railway Cherwell Valley Line ), not the destinations I believe?

Some of their edits local to me have some errors,[3] there may be more due to how many, but likely good faith! Thanks DankJae 22:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't be surprised at Skivermac doing this; I've constantly caught them making similar unreasonable edits at List of companies operating trains in the United Kingdom, both logged in and logged out. Regardless, yes, there needs to be a consensus for changes that affect historical names of train lines and other such names. Jalen Folf (talk) 00:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I’ve seen them doing it on station articles starting with F as well such as on Four Oaks and Five Ways. Unfortunate that they don’t have a user or talk page. JamesVilla44 (talk) 00:55, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Unless you are an admin, or have a valid alternative account, it is not a crime to not have a user page: this merely means that the user hasn't created one yet. It is also not a crime to not have a user talk page: this merely means that the user hasn't yet been sent any messages. But I don't know why you say that they don’t have a ... talk page - User talk:Skivermac16111994 has existed since 08:27, 16 October 2023 (UTC). Anyway, if you have concerns over the user's activities, send them a helpful message, observing WP:AGF. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 17:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh I didn’t see the talk page, thank you for pointing that out. That solves the concern I had that I wouldn’t be able to use a talk page to send them that helpful message. JamesVilla44 (talk) 19:05, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi James, any user will receive messages if you create a talk page for them when they don't exist. Although it does in this case :). Rcsprinter123 (pitch) 22:22, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@JamesVilla44: Even if a user talk page doesn't exist, you should always be able leave messages. The only time that you can't will be if the page is protected; and that is extremely rare for user talk pages.

Depending upon your skin and other preferences, a non-existent page may show preset text reading "Welcome to this talk page Talk pages are where people discuss how to make content on Wikipedia the best that it can be. Use this page to start a discussion about the edits made from this IP address. What you say here will be public for others to see. Many IP addresses change periodically, and are often shared by several people." plus a button Start a discussion which may be clicked.

Whether you see that or not, you should still see an "Add topic" tab (or equivalent, like "New section" or "+") between the "Create" and "Tools" tabs; and even if you don't have that either, there will be some kind of "Create" or "Edit" tab near the top. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:38, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Levenmouth opening

I've updated the main project page but I will not have time to do the stations. Can someone update Cameron Bridge railway station and Leven railway station that according to STV, the opening date will be 2 June 2024 for the whole line? STV report. Difficultly north (talk) Time, department skies 12:15, 27 March 2024 (UTC)