Talk:Sweater

Redirect?

It seems almost crazy to me to have "sweater" redirect to jumper. This is potentially a very rich topic in its own right, ranging from the hockey sweater to sweater girls. A very extensive article could certainly be written on the history of the former in particular. --Daniel C. Boyer 18:30 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Especially odd redirect as the definition of jumper is a sweater made of wool. Rmhermen 19:50 24 Jul 2003 (UTC)

This is a US/UK difference, I believe.

The point is that it is a circular redirect. Rmhermen 16:23 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I think the way that things have been worked now is very good. --Daniel C. :::::Where's my sweater article? Boyer 21:49, 30 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Um... there's no article for Sweatshirt. see below - Sweatshirt != sweater... --208.242.14.200 (talk) 17:37, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Where is a short-sleeved sweater called a vest?

The article says 'If the sweater has no sleeves, it is generally called a vest.' Where? Here in England a vest is a type of sleeveless undershirt. In the US I got the impression a vest was a waistcoat. A sleeveless sweater, on the other hand, in England, is called a tanktop. Where does vest mean a sleeveless sweater?--Jcvamp 03:36, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. In the Midwestern US, a vest is a sleeveless, non-knitted garment, worn under a jacket as part of a three piece suit. A tank-top is a (usually) woman's garment, sleeveless, often eleastic. I've never heard of a sweater called a "tank top", but tank tops may be made of machine-knit cotton. Not quite a sweater.Pustelnik 14:15, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what part of the midwestern U.S. you're from, but a tank top is a sleeveless t-shirt (not exclusive to women), and a vest is "a sleeveless, waist- or hip-length garment made of various materials, with a front opening usually secured by buttons, a zipper, or the like, worn over a shirt, blouse, dress, or other article for style or warmth: a sweater vest; a down vest."

--- Got rid of the the sweater.gif, it is a silly image because the image changes too quickly and distracts from the article. The sweaters are also out of fashion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.238.143.208 (talk) 17:17, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

A vest in the US is any sleeveless garment worn outside a shirt/blouse. So a sweater without sleeves is called a vest, albeit usually a sweater vest. Sailorknightwing (talk) 04:31, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Rewrite Needed (Badly!)/Misperception?

I jumped to this page checking out an explanation and was puzzled by its content. As I have always understood it sweater is a contraction from sweatshirt not an overarching term and is distinct from jersey which refers to a knitted garment eg School Jerseys! My mistake or some tidying/international adjusting required? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.190.200.254 (talk) 17:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Wool Bondage

Seriously...? Sergeirichard (talk) 18:20, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Although the wool bondage portion seems to have been removed, the excessive focus on how much skin a woman's sweater displays is bizarre and distracting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.21.226.228 (talk) 05:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

UK/US nomenclature confusion

The first paragraph of this article is filled with problematic statements, many of which may be due to US/UK language differences.

First of all, in American English, or at least the English I speak, "sweater" and "sweatshirt" are not interchangeable. A sweater is a garment knitted from wool or acrylic used mainly for warmth, often seen in a v-neck and worn over a collared shirt . A sweatshirt is typically cotton or cotton/polyester and is traditionally meant more for athletic use (sometimes accompanying matching sweatpants). One difference has to do with dress codes: I think of a nice sweater being acceptable in semi-formal or smart casual situations, whereas a sweatshirt would not be.

"Hoodie" and "sweatshirt" are not mutually exclusive. A hoodie is a hooded sweatshirt, and as such is a type of sweatshirt. The word hoodie hasn't been around that long. What did people call them before? I don't know where the word "jumper" fits into all this, as that's not a word that's really used in the US.

As for vest, tank top, etc.: As far as I can tell, in UK English, (British=American): waistcoat=vest, vest=tank top, tank top=sweater vest. Sound right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.128.78 (talk) 08:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd agree that there are problems but not exactly you identify. Sweater for me (NZE) means sweatshirt. The problem is this says a sweater includes jerseys which are absolutely not sweatshirts. That being said, and just to confuse the issue, there are school jerseys, sold to the graduating year at a school, that mimic sports jerseys. Outside those however school jerseys refers to something more akin to the seamens jumper image - bottom right of the article, albeit with a V kneck, minus the pocket etc. 118.208.168.232 (talk) 09:48, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Also, "jersey" as it's used in US English almost always refers to a top worn while playing sports, often one specifically designed for a particular sport (a football jersey, a Chicago Bulls jersey, etc.). It also means the type of fabric commonly used to make T-shirts, but this use is less common among average people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.128.78 (talk) 04:31, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

I was having a discussion about this with colleagues the other day. As an Australian English Speaker, A jumper and sweater and are used interchangeably to refer to knitted garments (US sweater) and non-knitted cotton-synthetic garments (US sweatshirt). I wonder if there is any research on this. Perhaps there does need to be more explanation? Mozzie (talk) 12:03, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

I just had a bit more of a look. The opening paragraph is really confusing. Is a knitted cardigan a sweater? Is a jumper in the uk also a cardigan? I would try to reword but I'm so lost! Mozzie (talk) 12:15, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

I have reworded it slightly. See if you can answer your own questions now. jnestorius^(talk) 13:06, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm British and slightly confused too. I'd agree a "jersey" is more commonly something of thin material often though not exclusively used in sports, since presumably it's named after jersey (fabric), a fine long-sleeved material, originally woollen, now usually a mixture of fibres. We rarely use the term "sweater" in the UK, a somewhat revolting term for what we'd call a jumper. Pullover is a slightly old-fashioned term, less often used. Purely to add confusion, in England a vest is something worn under your clothes for warm, in the US it's what we'd call a waistcoast. Two countries divided by a single language ;) Gymnophoria (talk) 10:32, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

Etymology

I'd like to know the etymology of sweater. Why is it called like that? Is it because originally it was cotton and it absorbs sweat?Jubeidono (talk) 16:41, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

• The etymology section is now a mess and difficult to follow. Needs simplifying; the convoluted explanation we have now could be a footnote. Malick78 (talk) 14:17, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Etymology section contains no etymology. AwaweWiki (talk) 10:15, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Peculiar sentence

In Customary wear: "Some people enjoy wearing ugly sweaters around Christmastime."

What is this statement based on and is it really necessary for this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.250.175.87 (talk) 17:20, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Don't forget that it's popular among men, women AND children OF ALL AGES! Everyone? Anyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.212.254.204 (talk) 19:17, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Sweater != jumper = pullover

AFAIK,

• the words "cardigan" and "pullover" are non-overlapping terms with the same definitions in US English as in UK English.
• However, US "sweater" does not have the same meaning as UK "jumper": a sweater may be either a pullover or a cardigan, but a jumper must be a pullover and not a cardigan. (I think: are there Americans for whom cardigans are not sweaters; i.e. only pullovers count as sweaters?)

I think the lede needs to be reworded in the light of this. A first draft for comments:

A sweater (American English) is a knitted garments intended to cover the torso and arms; either a pullover or a cardigan, distinguished in that cardigans open at the front while pullovers do not. In British English, a pullover may also be called a jumper or jersey, and there is no hyponym equivalent to sweater covering both pullovers and cardigans.

This misalignment of vocabulary causes some problems elsewhere in this article and others in Category:Sweaters. Aran jumper would be better at Aran sweater, since there are Aran cardigans as well; but the Aran Islands are in Ireland, so US "sweater" violates MOS:ENGVAR. Christmas sweaters may be cardigans or pullovers; pullovers are more common, but cardigans have extra camp value. The article is at "sweater" but the description is UK-centric with no mention of cardigans. OTOH I presume Jayne Mansfield was a sweater girl whether wearing a pullover or a cardigan. jnestorius^(talk) 14:18, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

In the face of overwhelming feedback I have been bold. jnestorius^(talk)

I live in England and I've never heard the phrase "Aran jumper" - it's always "Aran sweater". That's the only circumstance under which I ever really hear the word "sweater" used. 195.171.114.69 (talk) 13:53, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

ALSO - SWEATSHIRT isn't a SWEATER --208.242.14.200 (talk) 17:38, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

What were sweaters/jumpers called before the 20th century?

Seems both the words are fairly modern, is that because the articles of clothing are modern too? If not, what were they called? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.103.10.5 (talk) 17:42, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Google's n-gram viewer shows them present before 1900, with a rapid rise starting around 1880 for 'sweater,' but no examples given before around 1904. 2600:6C67:1C00:5F7E:DB2E:DF73:29AF:1481 (talk) 01:08, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Separate sweatshirt content to sweatshirt article?

A sweatshirt is not a sweater. A sweatshirt is very clearly it's own thing and should have it's own article. Timtempleton (talk) 03:47, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Agreed. Powers ^T 01:39, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

To me, a pullover / pull-over is not a sweater. A sweater is knit, but a pullover is like a T-shirt or a sweatshirt. This is from my memories as an American child. I don't have any sources to back me up, though. 2600:6C67:1C00:5F7E:DB2E:DF73:29AF:1481 (talk) 01:03, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Still confusing regarding US/UK terminology

In the opening paragraph, the sentence "There is no hypernym equivalent to sweater covering both pullovers and cardigans" is highly confusing. It appears to contradict the earlier statement that "A sweater is either a pullover or a cardigan".

From the position next to a sentence about British English terms, and from other comments on this talk page, I might infer that the sentence about no hypernym existing refers only to British English. If so, I think it should be reworded to state that "There is no British English hypernym equivalent to sweater covering both pullovers and cardigans" because otherwise it is not clear that it refers only to British English.

But this results in an incorrect statement. The supposedly elusive BrE hypernym for pullovers and cardigans is "jumper". I speak British English. We would use the term "jumper" to refer to both pullovers and cardigans. In fact, we often use the term "jumper" as a catch-all term for any kind of warm, upper-body overgarment with sleeves, including sweatshirts and hoodies but excluding jackets and coats, making it a hypernym rather than a synonym to AmE "sweater", which seems to exclude sweatshirts. In my experience, BrE "sweater" is commonly understood as a synonym for "sweatshirt" rather than being equivalent to AmE "sweater".

I can't immediately think of a good way to resolve all of this.

81.149.152.4 (talk) 10:16, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

• First, two edits on 16 June 2016 and 14 January 2017 garbled the text; I have reverted them.
• Second, I have never heard "jumper" used of a cardigan. I see now that British dictionaries differ (some follow your understanding and others mine) so I have added a note to that effect. jnestorius^(talk) 16:19, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

That seems less confusing and quite comprehensive. Thank you. 81.149.152.4 (talk) 20:46, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

I'm not only a British English speaker, but British. I have never heard anyone ever refer to a cardigan as a jumper or vice versa.2603:6080:A204:309A:999D:AA87:90C6:A1D5 (talk) 01:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Same, FWIW. A cardigan is a cardigan; I don't recall hearing them called anything else. Definitely not a jumper, sweater or pullover. --Vometia (talk) 04:35, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

History section?

Needs a history section.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 05:56, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Woollie

"Woollie" (British English) is/was a very common term for a woollen jumper.--Brenont (talk) 23:18, 30 July 2018 (UTC)