postgres-xc-general Mailing List for Postgres-XC (Page 61)

>
>
> > I am just saying that anything from the Postgres-XC Development Group
> > could be like the PostgreSQL Development Group and allow liberal
> > usage. If someone does not want to allow liberal usage, then they put
> > it under their own name or company name instead of the Postgres-XC
> > Development Group, and under any such license that they choose (is
> > that more similar to how PostgreSQL also operates?).  It seems like an
> > easy way to avoid disagreements and avoid adding bylaws, committees
> > and bureaucracy.
> >
>
> Yes, it does keep it simple for the community. However, there are
> perfectly valid arguments for other structures that are also positive.
> For example, if the docs are licensed in a way that allows free sharing
> but not for commercial use, if someone wants to use them commercially
> there could be a defined fee/donation to the community that gets paid.
> That fee can help with things like having testing clusters.
>
True. XC activities are now uniquely funded by NTT.
Diversifying the sources of funding is necessary to reinforce the
economical model and the independency of the project.

That said, I sit on the fundraising group, the sponsorship committee,
> and am a director for Pg.US and SPI. Meetings are a pain :P
>
Hehe :)


> Personally, if I have a vote the license (for Postgres-XC as well but
> let's not start that thread) would not be BSD, but LGPL. The LGPL allows
> people to commercialize the product BUT and here is the big BUT, it
> requires that any changes to the product must also be given back. For
> our docs, that could be a real boon, please use them commercially,
> please sell them, please change them as much as you like but understand
> that you must give all those improvements back to the community as well.
>
LGLP might be a possibility in the future to insure the economical model of
the project. So is is true that this cannot be excluded.
However, XC stays BSD now.
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 8:41 AM, Michael Paquier
<mic...@gm...>wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Koichi Suzuki <ko...@in...>
>> wrote:
>> > Mason is proposing that it's better to license XC contents commercially
>> as well.
>> >
>>
>> I am just saying that anything from the Postgres-XC Development Group
>> could be like the PostgreSQL Development Group and allow liberal
>> usage. If someone does not want to allow liberal usage, then they put
>> it under their own name or company name instead of the Postgres-XC
>> Development Group, and under any such license that they choose (is
>> that more similar to how PostgreSQL also operates?).  It seems like an
>> easy way to avoid disagreements and avoid adding bylaws, committees
>> and bureaucracy.
>>
> Just to be clear: what are the documents you are talking about?
> If it is the documentation in GIT, then it falls
> under Postgres-XC Development Group copyright and is licensed as PostgreSQL
> license.
>

At least this is the license written physically inside GIT. But I might be
missing something as I am not a lawyer.
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Koichi Suzuki <ko...@in...>
> wrote:
> > Mason is proposing that it's better to license XC contents commercially
> as well.
> >
>
> I am just saying that anything from the Postgres-XC Development Group
> could be like the PostgreSQL Development Group and allow liberal
> usage. If someone does not want to allow liberal usage, then they put
> it under their own name or company name instead of the Postgres-XC
> Development Group, and under any such license that they choose (is
> that more similar to how PostgreSQL also operates?).  It seems like an
> easy way to avoid disagreements and avoid adding bylaws, committees
> and bureaucracy.
>
Just to be clear: what are the documents you are talking about?
If it is the documentation in GIT, then it falls
under Postgres-XC Development Group copyright and is licensed as PostgreSQL
license.
If it is the presentation documents that have been used at conferences,
this is different. And in this case if you want to reuse those materials
you might need to contact the authors except if they decided to transmit
the copyright of their documents under Postgres-XC Development Group. For
example, I haven't written any presentation document under Postgres-XC
Development group label, and I don't recall that I transmitted the right to
use my own presentation slides for commercial usages.
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

On 07/13/2012 06:27 AM, Mason Sharp wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Koichi Suzuki <ko...@in...> wrote:
>> Mason is proposing that it's better to license XC contents commercially as well.
>>
>
> I am just saying that anything from the Postgres-XC Development Group
> could be like the PostgreSQL Development Group and allow liberal
> usage. If someone does not want to allow liberal usage, then they put
> it under their own name or company name instead of the Postgres-XC
> Development Group, and under any such license that they choose (is
> that more similar to how PostgreSQL also operates?).  It seems like an
> easy way to avoid disagreements and avoid adding bylaws, committees
> and bureaucracy.
>

Yes, it does keep it simple for the community. However, there are 
perfectly valid arguments for other structures that are also positive. 
For example, if the docs are licensed in a way that allows free sharing 
but not for commercial use, if someone wants to use them commercially 
there could be a defined fee/donation to the community that gets paid. 
That fee can help with things like having testing clusters.

That said, I sit on the fundraising group, the sponsorship committee, 
and am a director for Pg.US and SPI. Meetings are a pain :P

Personally, if I have a vote the license (for Postgres-XC as well but 
let's not start that thread) would not be BSD, but LGPL. The LGPL allows 
people to commercialize the product BUT and here is the big BUT, it 
requires that any changes to the product must also be given back. For 
our docs, that could be a real boon, please use them commercially, 
please sell them, please change them as much as you like but understand 
that you must give all those improvements back to the community as well.

The creative commons has a very similar license:

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/

Sincerely,

jD


-- 
Command Prompt, Inc. - http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Support, Training, Professional Services and Development
High Availability, Oracle Conversion, Postgres-XC
@cmdpromptinc - 509-416-6579

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 PM, Koichi Suzuki <ko...@in...> wrote:
> Mason is proposing that it's better to license XC contents commercially as well.
>

I am just saying that anything from the Postgres-XC Development Group
could be like the PostgreSQL Development Group and allow liberal
usage. If someone does not want to allow liberal usage, then they put
it under their own name or company name instead of the Postgres-XC
Development Group, and under any such license that they choose (is
that more similar to how PostgreSQL also operates?).  It seems like an
easy way to avoid disagreements and avoid adding bylaws, committees
and bureaucracy.

> I'd like to have ideas from others.
>

> Regards;
> ---
> Koichi Suzuki
>
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 06:41:26 -0400
> Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Koichi Suzuki
>> <koi...@gm...> wrote:
>> > As raised by Mason and commented by many members, I think it's a time
>> > to determine how XC-related documents/contents license should be.
>> > Here's my idea.
>> >
>> > 1. As Mason proposed, I think creative commons is suitable for XC
>> > documents/contents (except for the code and the reference, they're
>> > licensed under PostgreSQL license).
>> >
>> > 2. Only for non-commercial use.   For commercial use, need specific approval.
>>
>> You referred to XC-related documents. Do you mean the official
>> Postgres-XC documentation? I think the documentation should have the
>> same license as whatever the software is.  Think of PostgreSQL itself.
>> It would seem a bit odd if the PostgreSQL documentation had a
>> different license than PostgreSQL. Other commercial software might be
>> reluctant to use PostgreSQL as its database if they had to rewrite the
>> documentation. I think a liberal license was chosen by the PostgreSQL
>> folks in part to increase adoption.
>>
>> >
>> > 3.  Share-alike.  Can distribute the resulting work only under the
>> > same or similar license.
>> >
>> > 4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
>> > group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.
>>
>> >
>> > 1, 2 and 3 makes the license Attribute-NonComercial-ShareAlike 3.0
>> > Unported (or CC BY-NC-SA 3.0).
>>
>> Just curious, what is the concern if used commercially?  Let's say I
>> offer training for a fee, so companies can be assured that XC will be
>> professionally supported with professional services and training. If
>> any presentations are credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group,
>> who are the members of the development group and who makes the final
>> decision in terms of granting permission to use the material?  I think
>> the various PostgreSQL companies that offer training all probably have
>> some overlap of materials gained from the community.  As one of the
>> original architects of Postgres-XC, and I would want to try and be
>> part of any decision making process. Maybe a solution is if a company
>> does not want a presentation to be modified for some reason they
>> should write it under their company or as an individual and not within
>> the Postgres-XC Development Group. In contrast, if any material is
>> credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group, it should be allowed to
>> be used liberally, even for commercial use, since the other body of
>> work (the source code) is BSD-like (The PostgreSQL License). If NTT
>> Data wants their presentations under a Creative Commons non-commercial
>> license, then they can retain the copyright, and not credit the
>> Postgres-XC Development Group.
>
> Hmmm... I understand the case.   Do you think it's better to allow commercial license?
>
> Like to have ideas from others too.
> ---
> Koichi
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I think you will have different idea on 4.   I'd like to collect
>> > inputs to have our final idea.
>> >
>> > If anybody would like to use XC documents/contents commercially, they
>> > need to have specific approval.   I'm also thinking to establish "fund
>> > raising group" who receives and approves commercial use, as well as
>> > future fundraising work.   This is closed group consists of selected
>> > XC mailing list reader.   I'd like to draft update to the charter of
>> > the group for comments.
>> >
>> > Any inputs to this idea is welcome.
>> >
>> > Best Regards;
>> > ----------
>> > Koichi Suzuki
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Live Security Virtual Conference
>> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Postgres-xc-general mailing list
>> > Pos...@li...
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mason Sharp
>>
>> StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
>> The Database Cloud
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Live Security Virtual Conference
>> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Postgres-xc-general mailing list
>> Pos...@li...
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
>>



-- 
Mason Sharp

StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
The Database Cloud

Mason is proposing that it's better to license XC contents commercially as well.

I'd like to have ideas from others.

Regards;
---
Koichi Suzuki

On Thu, 12 Jul 2012 06:41:26 -0400
Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Koichi Suzuki
> <koi...@gm...> wrote:
> > As raised by Mason and commented by many members, I think it's a time
> > to determine how XC-related documents/contents license should be.
> > Here's my idea.
> >
> > 1. As Mason proposed, I think creative commons is suitable for XC
> > documents/contents (except for the code and the reference, they're
> > licensed under PostgreSQL license).
> >
> > 2. Only for non-commercial use.   For commercial use, need specific approval.
> 
> You referred to XC-related documents. Do you mean the official
> Postgres-XC documentation? I think the documentation should have the
> same license as whatever the software is.  Think of PostgreSQL itself.
> It would seem a bit odd if the PostgreSQL documentation had a
> different license than PostgreSQL. Other commercial software might be
> reluctant to use PostgreSQL as its database if they had to rewrite the
> documentation. I think a liberal license was chosen by the PostgreSQL
> folks in part to increase adoption.
> 
> >
> > 3.  Share-alike.  Can distribute the resulting work only under the
> > same or similar license.
> >
> > 4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
> > group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.
> 
> >
> > 1, 2 and 3 makes the license Attribute-NonComercial-ShareAlike 3.0
> > Unported (or CC BY-NC-SA 3.0).
> 
> Just curious, what is the concern if used commercially?  Let's say I
> offer training for a fee, so companies can be assured that XC will be
> professionally supported with professional services and training. If
> any presentations are credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group,
> who are the members of the development group and who makes the final
> decision in terms of granting permission to use the material?  I think
> the various PostgreSQL companies that offer training all probably have
> some overlap of materials gained from the community.  As one of the
> original architects of Postgres-XC, and I would want to try and be
> part of any decision making process. Maybe a solution is if a company
> does not want a presentation to be modified for some reason they
> should write it under their company or as an individual and not within
> the Postgres-XC Development Group. In contrast, if any material is
> credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group, it should be allowed to
> be used liberally, even for commercial use, since the other body of
> work (the source code) is BSD-like (The PostgreSQL License). If NTT
> Data wants their presentations under a Creative Commons non-commercial
> license, then they can retain the copyright, and not credit the
> Postgres-XC Development Group.

Hmmm... I understand the case.   Do you think it's better to allow commercial license?

Like to have ideas from others too.
---
Koichi

> 
> 
> >
> > I think you will have different idea on 4.   I'd like to collect
> > inputs to have our final idea.
> >
> > If anybody would like to use XC documents/contents commercially, they
> > need to have specific approval.   I'm also thinking to establish "fund
> > raising group" who receives and approves commercial use, as well as
> > future fundraising work.   This is closed group consists of selected
> > XC mailing list reader.   I'd like to draft update to the charter of
> > the group for comments.
> >
> > Any inputs to this idea is welcome.
> >
> > Best Regards;
> > ----------
> > Koichi Suzuki
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> > Pos...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mason Sharp
> 
> StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
> The Database Cloud
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> Pos...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
> 

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Koichi Suzuki
> <koi...@gm...> wrote:
> > As raised by Mason and commented by many members, I think it's a time
> > to determine how XC-related documents/contents license should be.
> > Here's my idea.
> >
> > 1. As Mason proposed, I think creative commons is suitable for XC
> > documents/contents (except for the code and the reference, they're
> > licensed under PostgreSQL license).
> >
> > 2. Only for non-commercial use.   For commercial use, need specific
> approval.
>
> You referred to XC-related documents. Do you mean the official
> Postgres-XC documentation? I think the documentation should have the
> same license as whatever the software is.  Think of PostgreSQL itself.
> It would seem a bit odd if the PostgreSQL documentation had a
> different license than PostgreSQL. Other commercial software might be
> reluctant to use PostgreSQL as its database if they had to rewrite the
> documentation. I think a liberal license was chosen by the PostgreSQL
> folks in part to increase adoption.
>
Docs in GIT have the same license as the code. So you can freely use it.


>
> >
> > 3.  Share-alike.  Can distribute the resulting work only under the
> > same or similar license.
> >
> > 4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
> > group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.
>
> >
> > 1, 2 and 3 makes the license Attribute-NonComercial-ShareAlike 3.0
> > Unported (or CC BY-NC-SA 3.0).
>
> Just curious, what is the concern if used commercially?  Let's say I
> offer training for a fee, so companies can be assured that XC will be
> professionally supported with professional services and training. If
> any presentations are credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group,
> who are the members of the development group and who makes the final
> decision in terms of granting permission to use the material?  I think
> the various PostgreSQL companies that offer training all probably have
> some overlap of materials gained from the community.  As one of the
> original architects of Postgres-XC, and I would want to try and be
> part of any decision making process. Maybe a solution is if a company
> does not want a presentation to be modified for some reason they
> should write it under their company or as an individual and not within
> the Postgres-XC Development Group. In contrast, if any material is
> credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group, it should be allowed to
> be used liberally, even for commercial use, since the other body of
> work (the source code) is BSD-like (The PostgreSQL License). If NTT
> Data wants their presentations under a Creative Commons non-commercial
> license, then they can retain the copyright, and not credit the
> Postgres-XC Development Group.
>
>
> >
> > I think you will have different idea on 4.   I'd like to collect
> > inputs to have our final idea.
> >
> > If anybody would like to use XC documents/contents commercially, they
> > need to have specific approval.   I'm also thinking to establish "fund
> > raising group" who receives and approves commercial use, as well as
> > future fundraising work.   This is closed group consists of selected
> > XC mailing list reader.   I'd like to draft update to the charter of
> > the group for comments.
> >
> > Any inputs to this idea is welcome.
> >
> > Best Regards;
> > ----------
> > Koichi Suzuki
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> > Pos...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
>
>
>
> --
> Mason Sharp
>
> StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
> The Database Cloud
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> Pos...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
>



-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 1:34 AM, Koichi Suzuki
<koi...@gm...> wrote:
> As raised by Mason and commented by many members, I think it's a time
> to determine how XC-related documents/contents license should be.
> Here's my idea.
>
> 1. As Mason proposed, I think creative commons is suitable for XC
> documents/contents (except for the code and the reference, they're
> licensed under PostgreSQL license).
>
> 2. Only for non-commercial use.   For commercial use, need specific approval.

You referred to XC-related documents. Do you mean the official
Postgres-XC documentation? I think the documentation should have the
same license as whatever the software is.  Think of PostgreSQL itself.
It would seem a bit odd if the PostgreSQL documentation had a
different license than PostgreSQL. Other commercial software might be
reluctant to use PostgreSQL as its database if they had to rewrite the
documentation. I think a liberal license was chosen by the PostgreSQL
folks in part to increase adoption.

>
> 3.  Share-alike.  Can distribute the resulting work only under the
> same or similar license.
>
> 4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
> group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.

>
> 1, 2 and 3 makes the license Attribute-NonComercial-ShareAlike 3.0
> Unported (or CC BY-NC-SA 3.0).

Just curious, what is the concern if used commercially?  Let's say I
offer training for a fee, so companies can be assured that XC will be
professionally supported with professional services and training. If
any presentations are credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group,
who are the members of the development group and who makes the final
decision in terms of granting permission to use the material?  I think
the various PostgreSQL companies that offer training all probably have
some overlap of materials gained from the community.  As one of the
original architects of Postgres-XC, and I would want to try and be
part of any decision making process. Maybe a solution is if a company
does not want a presentation to be modified for some reason they
should write it under their company or as an individual and not within
the Postgres-XC Development Group. In contrast, if any material is
credited to the Postgres-XC Development Group, it should be allowed to
be used liberally, even for commercial use, since the other body of
work (the source code) is BSD-like (The PostgreSQL License). If NTT
Data wants their presentations under a Creative Commons non-commercial
license, then they can retain the copyright, and not credit the
Postgres-XC Development Group.


>
> I think you will have different idea on 4.   I'd like to collect
> inputs to have our final idea.
>
> If anybody would like to use XC documents/contents commercially, they
> need to have specific approval.   I'm also thinking to establish "fund
> raising group" who receives and approves commercial use, as well as
> future fundraising work.   This is closed group consists of selected
> XC mailing list reader.   I'd like to draft update to the charter of
> the group for comments.
>
> Any inputs to this idea is welcome.
>
> Best Regards;
> ----------
> Koichi Suzuki
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> Pos...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general



-- 
Mason Sharp

StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
The Database Cloud

Thanks Michael.

I'd like to have more opinion on this before revising the charter of the group.
----------
Koichi Suzuki


2012/7/12 Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...>:
> As raised by Mason and commented by many members, I think it's a time
> to determine how XC-related documents/contents license should be.
> Here's my idea.
>
> 1. As Mason proposed, I think creative commons is suitable for XC
> documents/contents (except for the code and the reference, they're
> licensed under PostgreSQL license).
>
> 2. Only for non-commercial use.   For commercial use, need specific approval.
>
> 3.  Share-alike.  Can distribute the resulting work only under the
> same or similar license.
>
> 4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
> group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.
>
> 1, 2 and 3 makes the license Attribute-NonComercial-ShareAlike 3.0
> Unported (or CC BY-NC-SA 3.0).
>
> I think you will have different idea on 4.   I'd like to collect
> inputs to have our final idea.
>
> If anybody would like to use XC documents/contents commercially, they
> need to have specific approval.   I'm also thinking to establish "fund
> raising group" who receives and approves commercial use, as well as
> future fundraising work.   This is closed group consists of selected
> XC mailing list reader.   I'd like to draft update to the charter of
> the group for comments.
>
> Any inputs to this idea is welcome.
>
> Best Regards;
> ----------
> Koichi Suzuki

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Koichi Suzuki
<koi...@gm...>wrote:

>
> 4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
> group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.
>
>
One idea is to require adding a standard credit slide/page at the end (or
should it be start ?) of the presentation/doc which can list credits to the
Postgres-XC Global Development Group and also list the project home page,
mailing lists etc. That will be good to increase awareness of the project
and also make a point that the whatever work being presented is based on
open-source Postgres-XC.

Thanks,
Pavan

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...>wrote:

> As raised by Mason and commented by many members, I think it's a time
> to determine how XC-related documents/contents license should be.
> Here's my idea.
>
> 1. As Mason proposed, I think creative commons is suitable for XC
> documents/contents (except for the code and the reference, they're
> licensed under PostgreSQL license).
> 2. Only for non-commercial use.   For commercial use, need specific
> approval.
> 3.  Share-alike.  Can distribute the resulting work only under the
> same or similar license.
>
OK here.

> 4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
> group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.
>
As suggested by Pavan and you, XC Development group will be enough... This
is going to be a pain through years if we look for a special author on a
special document.


>
> If anybody would like to use XC documents/contents commercially, they
> need to have specific approval.

Or they can make a new one from scratch.

>   I'm also thinking to establish "fund
> raising group" who receives and approves commercial use, as well as
> future fundraising work.   This is closed group consists of selected
> XC mailing list reader.   I'd like to draft update to the charter of
> the group for comments.
>
Those are good ideas, able to diversify the origin of funds able to reach
the project.
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

As raised by Mason and commented by many members, I think it's a time
to determine how XC-related documents/contents license should be.
Here's my idea.

1. As Mason proposed, I think creative commons is suitable for XC
documents/contents (except for the code and the reference, they're
licensed under PostgreSQL license).

2. Only for non-commercial use.   For commercial use, need specific approval.

3.  Share-alike.  Can distribute the resulting work only under the
same or similar license.

4. Original Author.   I'm thinking at least "Postgres-XC development
group" should be referred as an original author in derived work.

1, 2 and 3 makes the license Attribute-NonComercial-ShareAlike 3.0
Unported (or CC BY-NC-SA 3.0).

I think you will have different idea on 4.   I'd like to collect
inputs to have our final idea.

If anybody would like to use XC documents/contents commercially, they
need to have specific approval.   I'm also thinking to establish "fund
raising group" who receives and approves commercial use, as well as
future fundraising work.   This is closed group consists of selected
XC mailing list reader.   I'd like to draft update to the charter of
the group for comments.

Any inputs to this idea is welcome.

Best Regards;
----------
Koichi Suzuki

On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:16 AM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Pavan Deolasee
> <pav...@gm...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Ashutosh Bapat
> > <ash...@en...> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I am fine with using or modifying those slides as long as you reference
> >> original authors. Please contribute your presentation back to the
> community,
> >> if possible.
> >>
> >
> >
> > I think we should probably leave it to the presenter to decide whether to
> > credit the author or not. This is so because it might be hard at times to
> > know who the original author is. For example, I am looking at these
> slides:
> >
> http://ignum.dl.sourceforge.net/project/postgres-xc/Presentation/201111_OSIDays_Bangalore/Postgres-XC_in_OSI.pdf
> >
> > Even though the first slide has Ashutosh's name, I seriously doubt if he
> is
> > the orignal author of those slides. At least 90% of the content is
> authored
> > by Mason or Suzuki-san or me or may be someone else. This may or may not
> be
> > true with other presentations, but then someone needs to really look at
> > those all presentations and mark appropriate credits. Till then,
> attributing
> > the Development Group might be the right way forward.
> >
>
> I think content has been updated, or based on old slides presented in
> a nicer format, etc. so I can't lay claim to that one, it looks
> Suzuki-san heavily-influenced I would guess, but point taken.
>
Kind of... Kind of...
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 12:23 AM, Pavan Deolasee
<pav...@gm...> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Ashutosh Bapat
> <ash...@en...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am fine with using or modifying those slides as long as you reference
>> original authors. Please contribute your presentation back to the community,
>> if possible.
>>
>
>
> I think we should probably leave it to the presenter to decide whether to
> credit the author or not. This is so because it might be hard at times to
> know who the original author is. For example, I am looking at these slides:
> http://ignum.dl.sourceforge.net/project/postgres-xc/Presentation/201111_OSIDays_Bangalore/Postgres-XC_in_OSI.pdf
>
> Even though the first slide has Ashutosh's name, I seriously doubt if he is
> the orignal author of those slides. At least 90% of the content is authored
> by Mason or Suzuki-san or me or may be someone else. This may or may not be
> true with other presentations, but then someone needs to really look at
> those all presentations and mark appropriate credits. Till then, attributing
> the Development Group might be the right way forward.
>

I think content has been updated, or based on old slides presented in
a nicer format, etc. so I can't lay claim to that one, it looks
Suzuki-san heavily-influenced I would guess, but point taken.

> Thanks,
> Pavan



-- 
Mason Sharp

StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
The Database Cloud

>> I think we should probably leave it to the presenter to decide whether to
>> credit the author or not. This is so because it might be hard at times to
>> know who the original author is. For example, I am looking at these slides:
>>
>> http://ignum.dl.sourceforge.net/project/postgres-xc/Presentation/201111_OSIDays_Bangalore/Postgres-XC_in_OSI.pdf
>>
>> Even though the first slide has Ashutosh's name, I seriously doubt if he
>> is the orignal author of those slides. At least 90% of the content is
>> authored by Mason or Suzuki-san or me or may be someone else. This may or
>> may not be true with other presentations, but then someone needs to really
>> look at those all presentations and mark appropriate credits. Till then,
>> attributing the Development Group might be the right way forward.
>
> +1.

Very good points Pavan.

+1 for the Development Group attribution.

Regards,
Nikhils
-- 
StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
The Database Cloud

I believe we can share all the output as well.

Creative Commons 3.0 allows it.
----------
Koichi Suzuki


2012/7/11 Ashutosh Bapat <ash...@en...>:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...>
>> wrote:
>> > Thank you Mason.
>> >
>> > I have no problem to reuse.   Because we have Michael ans Ashutosh as
>> > co-author, you may need to get their consent.   Also, it may be better
>> > to leave original author's names in the material.
>>
>> Thank you. I think if I leverage the existing XC material it will make
>> for a better presentation. I had assumed these were free to use and
>> modify, so I am glad you pointed that out. I personally don't mind
>> anyone taking the material that I created from other downloadable
>> presentations I contributed to and reusing and modifying.  Perhaps we
>> can add a Creative Commons license on ones where the other
>> contributors are ok with it.
>>
>> Michael, Ashutosh, please let me know if you have any objections, and
>> if you do not wish for me to use any of your XC material. Of course, I
>> am more than happy to do Creative Commons-like attribution.
>>
>
> I am fine with using or modifying those slides as long as you reference
> original authors. Please contribute your presentation back to the community,
> if possible.
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Regards;
>> > ----------
>> > Koichi Suzuki
>> >
>> >
>> > 2012/7/9 Mason Sharp <ma...@st...>:
>> >> For those in the New York area, I wanted to let you know that I will
>> >> be doing a presentation about Postgres-XC on Thursday July 12th:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.nycpug.org/events/70817202/
>> >>
>> >> There is a waiting list, but we will try and find a solution to
>> >> accommodate everyone.
>> >>
>>
>> --
>> Mason Sharp
>>
>> StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
>> The Database Cloud
>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Wishes,
> Ashutosh Bapat
> EntepriseDB Corporation
> The Enterprise Postgres Company
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> Pos...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
>

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Pavan Deolasee <pav...@gm...>wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Ashutosh Bapat <
> ash...@en...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I am fine with using or modifying those slides as long as you reference
>> original authors. Please contribute your presentation back to the
>> community, if possible.
>>
>>
>
> I think we should probably leave it to the presenter to decide whether to
> credit the author or not. This is so because it might be hard at times to
> know who the original author is. For example, I am looking at these slides:
>
> http://ignum.dl.sourceforge.net/project/postgres-xc/Presentation/201111_OSIDays_Bangalore/Postgres-XC_in_OSI.pdf
>
> Even though the first slide has Ashutosh's name, I seriously doubt if he
> is the orignal author of those slides. At least 90% of the content is
> authored by Mason or Suzuki-san or me or may be someone else. This may or
> may not be true with other presentations, but then someone needs to really
> look at those all presentations and mark appropriate credits. Till then,
> attributing the Development Group might be the right way forward.
>
+1.
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Ashutosh Bapat <
ash...@en...> wrote:

>
>
> I am fine with using or modifying those slides as long as you reference
> original authors. Please contribute your presentation back to the
> community, if possible.
>
>

I think we should probably leave it to the presenter to decide whether to
credit the author or not. This is so because it might be hard at times to
know who the original author is. For example, I am looking at these slides:
http://ignum.dl.sourceforge.net/project/postgres-xc/Presentation/201111_OSIDays_Bangalore/Postgres-XC_in_OSI.pdf

Even though the first slide has Ashutosh's name, I seriously doubt if he is
the orignal author of those slides. At least 90% of the content is authored
by Mason or Suzuki-san or me or may be someone else. This may or may not be
true with other presentations, but then someone needs to really look at
those all presentations and mark appropriate credits. Till then,
attributing the Development Group might be the right way forward.

Thanks,
Pavan

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...>
> wrote:
> > Thank you Mason.
> >
> > I have no problem to reuse.   Because we have Michael ans Ashutosh as
> > co-author, you may need to get their consent.   Also, it may be better
> > to leave original author's names in the material.
>
> Thank you. I think if I leverage the existing XC material it will make
> for a better presentation. I had assumed these were free to use and
> modify, so I am glad you pointed that out. I personally don't mind
> anyone taking the material that I created from other downloadable
> presentations I contributed to and reusing and modifying.  Perhaps we
> can add a Creative Commons license on ones where the other
> contributors are ok with it.
>
> Michael, Ashutosh, please let me know if you have any objections, and
> if you do not wish for me to use any of your XC material. Of course, I
> am more than happy to do Creative Commons-like attribution.
>
>
I am fine with using or modifying those slides as long as you reference
original authors. Please contribute your presentation back to the
community, if possible.


>
> >
> > Regards;
> > ----------
> > Koichi Suzuki
> >
> >
> > 2012/7/9 Mason Sharp <ma...@st...>:
> >> For those in the New York area, I wanted to let you know that I will
> >> be doing a presentation about Postgres-XC on Thursday July 12th:
> >>
> >> http://www.nycpug.org/events/70817202/
> >>
> >> There is a waiting list, but we will try and find a solution to
> >> accommodate everyone.
> >>
>
> --
> Mason Sharp
>
> StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
> The Database Cloud
>



-- 
Best Wishes,
Ashutosh Bapat
EntepriseDB Corporation
The Enterprise Postgres Company

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Koichi Suzuki
<koi...@gm...>wrote:

> Thanks.   Creative commons 3.0 looks nice for us.
>
There are many kinds of 3.0 versions, as each license is defined by 3
conditions which are:
- attribution
- commercial aspect
- share
So we should definitely be precise to avoid any problems in the future.


> ----------
> Koichi Suzuki
>
>
> 2012/7/11 Michael Paquier <mic...@gm...>:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:
> >>
> >> Thank you. I think if I leverage the existing XC material it will make
> >> for a better presentation. I had assumed these were free to use and
> >> modify, so I am glad you pointed that out. I personally don't mind
> >> anyone taking the material that I created from other downloadable
> >> presentations I contributed to and reusing and modifying.  Perhaps we
> >> can add a Creative Commons license on ones where the other
> >> contributors are ok with it.
> >
> > My contribution is under the license "Don't mind as long as those
> documents
> > stay in public domain".
> > So you can reuse and modify it as you wish. If you can also create an
> > improved document, well we could also
> > add in in dedicated section inside source forge folders.
> > For the license CreativeCommons, well smth like this looks OK
> > (non-commercial, allow modification):
> > This work is licensed under a Creative Commons
> > Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
> > Adding a non-commercial clause also makes sense because even if XC is
> > BSD-based, its documents should exclusively stay in public domain => so
> no
> > commercial use.
> >
> >> Michael, Ashutosh, please let me know if you have any objections, and
> >> if you do not wish for me to use any of your XC material. Of course, I
> >> am more than happy to do Creative Commons-like attribution.
> >
> > As long as the non-commercial clause is in, I am OK.
> > --
> > Michael Paquier
> > http://michael.otacoo.com
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> > Pos...@li...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
> >
>



-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

Thanks.   Creative commons 3.0 looks nice for us.
----------
Koichi Suzuki


2012/7/11 Michael Paquier <mic...@gm...>:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you. I think if I leverage the existing XC material it will make
>> for a better presentation. I had assumed these were free to use and
>> modify, so I am glad you pointed that out. I personally don't mind
>> anyone taking the material that I created from other downloadable
>> presentations I contributed to and reusing and modifying.  Perhaps we
>> can add a Creative Commons license on ones where the other
>> contributors are ok with it.
>
> My contribution is under the license "Don't mind as long as those documents
> stay in public domain".
> So you can reuse and modify it as you wish. If you can also create an
> improved document, well we could also
> add in in dedicated section inside source forge folders.
> For the license CreativeCommons, well smth like this looks OK
> (non-commercial, allow modification):
> This work is licensed under a Creative Commons
> Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.
> Adding a non-commercial clause also makes sense because even if XC is
> BSD-based, its documents should exclusively stay in public domain => so no
> commercial use.
>
>> Michael, Ashutosh, please let me know if you have any objections, and
>> if you do not wish for me to use any of your XC material. Of course, I
>> am more than happy to do Creative Commons-like attribution.
>
> As long as the non-commercial clause is in, I am OK.
> --
> Michael Paquier
> http://michael.otacoo.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> Pos...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general
>

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Mason Sharp <ma...@st...> wrote:

> Thank you. I think if I leverage the existing XC material it will make
> for a better presentation. I had assumed these were free to use and
> modify, so I am glad you pointed that out. I personally don't mind
> anyone taking the material that I created from other downloadable
> presentations I contributed to and reusing and modifying.  Perhaps we
> can add a Creative Commons license on ones where the other
> contributors are ok with it.
>
My contribution is under the license "Don't mind as long as those documents
stay in public domain".
So you can reuse and modify it as you wish. If you can also create an
improved document, well we could also
add in in dedicated section inside source forge folders.
For the license CreativeCommons, well smth like this looks OK
(non-commercial, allow modification):
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons
Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported
License<http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/>
.
Adding a non-commercial clause also makes sense because even if XC is
BSD-based, its documents should exclusively stay in public domain => so no
commercial use.

Michael, Ashutosh, please let me know if you have any objections, and
> if you do not wish for me to use any of your XC material. Of course, I
> am more than happy to do Creative Commons-like attribution.
>
As long as the non-commercial clause is in, I am OK.
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com

Gee! I forgot to respond to this.

If we read from only one datanode slave, it should be easy.   If we
need to read from more than one datanode slave (for example, in the
case of distributed tables or in the case of replicated tables
replicated to different slave), we need to synchronize the time stamp
of the database among involved datanode slave to get consistent
result.   This is challenging work.

Regards;
----------
Koichi Suzuki


2012/7/7 Nikhil Sontakke <ni...@st...>:
>> I might explore how easy that is to implement this weekend.
>>
>
> Easy implementation! Good luck with that :)
>
> Regards,
> Nikhils
> --
> StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
> The Database Cloud
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Postgres-xc-general mailing list
> Pos...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/postgres-xc-general

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Koichi Suzuki <koi...@gm...> wrote:
> Thank you Mason.
>
> I have no problem to reuse.   Because we have Michael ans Ashutosh as
> co-author, you may need to get their consent.   Also, it may be better
> to leave original author's names in the material.

Thank you. I think if I leverage the existing XC material it will make
for a better presentation. I had assumed these were free to use and
modify, so I am glad you pointed that out. I personally don't mind
anyone taking the material that I created from other downloadable
presentations I contributed to and reusing and modifying.  Perhaps we
can add a Creative Commons license on ones where the other
contributors are ok with it.

Michael, Ashutosh, please let me know if you have any objections, and
if you do not wish for me to use any of your XC material. Of course, I
am more than happy to do Creative Commons-like attribution.


>
> Regards;
> ----------
> Koichi Suzuki
>
>
> 2012/7/9 Mason Sharp <ma...@st...>:
>> For those in the New York area, I wanted to let you know that I will
>> be doing a presentation about Postgres-XC on Thursday July 12th:
>>
>> http://www.nycpug.org/events/70817202/
>>
>> There is a waiting list, but we will try and find a solution to
>> accommodate everyone.
>>

-- 
Mason Sharp

StormDB - http://www.stormdb.com
The Database Cloud

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Anant Rao <ar...@fa...> wrote:

> Thanks for the reply!
> I'm asked here to use only RPM and not build from source for our
> deployment.
>
> So, I have a few questions:
>
> - Is 'XC' a plug-in/add-on?
>
No, XC code is based on PostgreSQL code. It doesn't have libraries that can
be plugged on top of postgres.


> What I'm trying to know is if I can start using the regular Postgres RPM
> now until an 'XC' RPM is available, at which point I will install it.
>
> If this is not the case (i.e., XC is baked right into the PG server code),
> what are my options with regard to an RPM ?
>
Wait that Devrim does it. or build it yourself.
I stored the pact RPM files that Devrim used here:
http://postgres-xc.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=postgres-xc/pgxcrpm;a=summary
However, with the time code team members can spend on XC, we are
exclusively working on the dev of core features and bug fix, while letting
packagers build RPM or debian stuff for the project.
-- 
Michael Paquier
http://michael.otacoo.com