Thread: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs

On 7/18/05, AntiSpam UOL <mr-...@uo...> wrote:
> =20
>  ANTISPAM UOL =BB TIRA-TEIMA=20
> =20
>    =20
>  Ol=E1,
>=20
>  Voc=EA enviou uma mensagem para mr...@uo...
>  Para que sua mensagem seja encaminhada, por favor, clique aqui
>=20
>   =20
>  Esta confirma=E7=E3o =E9 necess=E1ria porque mr...@uo... usa o Ant=
ispam UOL,
> um programa que elimina mensagens enviadas por rob=F4s, como pornografia,
> propaganda e correntes.
>=20
>  As pr=F3ximas mensagens enviadas para mr...@uo... n=E3o precisar=
=E3o ser
> confirmadas*.
>  *Caso voc=EA receba outro pedido de confirma=E7=E3o, por favor, pe=E7a p=
ara
> mr...@uo... inclu=ED-lo em sua lista de autorizados.
>=20
> =20
> Aten=E7=E3o! Se voc=EA n=E3o conseguir clicar no atalho acima, acesse est=
e endere=E7o:
> http://tira-teima.as.uol.com.br/challengeSender.html?data=3D0373VKtWBkdl%=
2BSWxhnyJs%2FBPstpQUcJbs2NUSi5MIG13zVqiAUAAG472xUPiMQRcKx%2Fu0b8cXo1R%0A%2F=
Tq4qbpRtW5I%2Bre%2BGc1FUsTDXtct2WZ4qfLRZe3Hekc7jwlpJZY1%2Bj8LKuXi3ZtYQc4fAy=
%2BHmA%3D%3D
> ________________________________
> =20
> =20
>    =20
>  Hi,
>=20
>  You=B4ve just sent a message to mr...@uo...
>  In order to confirm the sent message, please click here
>=20
>   =20
>  This confirmation is necessary because mr...@uo... uses Antispam U=
OL,
> a service that avoids unwanted messages like advertising, pornography,
> viruses, and spams.
>=20
>  Other messages sent to mr...@uo... won't need to be confirmed*.
>  *If you receive another confirmation request, please ask mr...@uo....=
br
> to include you in his/her authorized e-mail list.
>=20
> =20
> Warning! If the link doesn=B4t work, please copy the address below and pa=
ste
> it on your browser:
> http://tira-teima.as.uol.com.br/challengeSender.html?data=3D0373VKtWBkdl%=
2BSWxhnyJs%2FBPstpQUcJbs2NUSi5MIG13zVqiAUAAG472xUPiMQRcKx%2Fu0b8cXo1R%0A%2F=
Tq4qbpRtW5I%2Bre%2BGc1FUsTDXtct2WZ4qfLRZe3Hekc7jwlpJZY1%2Bj8LKuXi3ZtYQc4fAy=
%2BHmA%3D%3D
> =20
> Use o AntiSpam UOL e proteja sua caixa postal=20
> =20

Can someone please for the love of God ban this user from the newsgroup?

--=20
Thanks
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
-Albert Einstein

<SIGH>
For months, I've kept asking.
Guess what keeps happening?
Nothing, that's what!

:-/,
Matt
</SIGH>

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of Josh
McFarlane
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 5:31 PM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


On 7/18/05, AntiSpam UOL <mr-...@uo...> wrote:
> =20
>  ANTISPAM UOL =BB TIRA-TEIMA=20
> =20
>    =20
>  Ol=E1,
>=20
>  Voc=EA enviou uma mensagem para mr...@uo...
>  Para que sua mensagem seja encaminhada, por favor, clique aqui
>=20
>   =20
>  Esta confirma=E7=E3o =E9 necess=E1ria porque mr...@uo... usa o Ant=
ispam
UOL,
> um programa que elimina mensagens enviadas por rob=F4s, como pornografia,
> propaganda e correntes.
>=20
>  As pr=F3ximas mensagens enviadas para mr...@uo... n=E3o precisar=
=E3o ser
> confirmadas*.
>  *Caso voc=EA receba outro pedido de confirma=E7=E3o, por favor, pe=E7a p=
ara
> mr...@uo... inclu=ED-lo em sua lista de autorizados.
>=20
> =20
> Aten=E7=E3o! Se voc=EA n=E3o conseguir clicar no atalho acima, acesse este
endere=E7o:
>
http://tira-teima.as.uol.com.br/challengeSender.html?data=3D0373VKtWBkdl%2B=
SWx
hnyJs%2FBPstpQUcJbs2NUSi5MIG13zVqiAUAAG472xUPiMQRcKx%2Fu0b8cXo1R%0A%2FTq4qbp
RtW5I%2Bre%2BGc1FUsTDXtct2WZ4qfLRZe3Hekc7jwlpJZY1%2Bj8LKuXi3ZtYQc4fAy%2BHmA%
3D%3D
> ________________________________
> =20
> =20
>    =20
>  Hi,
>=20
>  You=B4ve just sent a message to mr...@uo...
>  In order to confirm the sent message, please click here
>=20
>   =20
>  This confirmation is necessary because mr...@uo... uses Antispam
UOL,
> a service that avoids unwanted messages like advertising, pornography,
> viruses, and spams.
>=20
>  Other messages sent to mr...@uo... won't need to be confirmed*.
>  *If you receive another confirmation request, please ask
mr...@uo...
> to include you in his/her authorized e-mail list.
>=20
> =20
> Warning! If the link doesn=B4t work, please copy the address below and pa=
ste
> it on your browser:
>
http://tira-teima.as.uol.com.br/challengeSender.html?data=3D0373VKtWBkdl%2B=
SWx
hnyJs%2FBPstpQUcJbs2NUSi5MIG13zVqiAUAAG472xUPiMQRcKx%2Fu0b8cXo1R%0A%2FTq4qbp
RtW5I%2Bre%2BGc1FUsTDXtct2WZ4qfLRZe3Hekc7jwlpJZY1%2Bj8LKuXi3ZtYQc4fAy%2BHmA%
3D%3D
> =20
> Use o AntiSpam UOL e proteja sua caixa postal=20
> =20

Can someone please for the love of God ban this user from the newsgroup?

--=20
Thanks
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
-Albert Einstein


-------------------------------------------------------
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___________________________________________________________________
The information contained in this message and any attachment may be
proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work
product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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huh?

I'm obviously missing something here.  what was all that

> <SIGH>
> For months, I've kept asking.
> Guess what keeps happening?
> Nothing, that's what!
>=20
> :-/,
> Matt
> </SIGH>

thing about?

On 7/18/05, lordSauron <lor...@gm...> wrote:
> huh?
>=20
> I'm obviously missing something here.  what was all that
>=20
> > <SIGH>
> > For months, I've kept asking.
> > Guess what keeps happening?
> > Nothing, that's what!
> >
> > :-/,
> > Matt
> > </SIGH>
>=20
> thing about?
Some stupid stupid stupid user has a "spam-filter" set up that sends
an auto-message everytime you send a message to the users list. This
is horrible horrible horrible netique and they should be banned from
the list, but the owners seem not to care. I would post on here quite
regularly, but instead, I only post once in a blue moon due to the
annoyance that getting an auto-responder (not even in English or
translated none the less) that simply fills my email list.
=3D/

--=20
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
-Albert Einstein

Hi:

   I agree, this is causing more headache's than it's worth. He could =
just put DEVCPP on his accept list.

   I thought I was the only one having problems with this JERK.

                                        Sincerely,

                                        William
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Josh McFarlane<mailto:da...@gm...>=20
  To: lordSauron<mailto:lor...@gm...>=20
  Cc: =
dev...@li...<mailto:dev...@li...urceforg=
e.net>=20
  Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:13 AM
  Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


  On 7/18/05, lordSauron =
<lor...@gm...<mailto:lor...@gm...>> =
wrote:
  > huh?
  >=20
  > I'm obviously missing something here.  what was all that
  >=20
  > > <SIGH>
  > > For months, I've kept asking.
  > > Guess what keeps happening?
  > > Nothing, that's what!
  > >
  > > :-/,
  > > Matt
  > > </SIGH>
  >=20
  > thing about?
  Some stupid stupid stupid user has a "spam-filter" set up that sends
  an auto-message everytime you send a message to the users list. This
  is horrible horrible horrible netique and they should be banned from
  the list, but the owners seem not to care. I would post on here quite
  regularly, but instead, I only post once in a blue moon due to the
  annoyance that getting an auto-responder (not even in English or
  translated none the less) that simply fills my email list.
  =3D/

  --=20
  Josh McFarlane

  "Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by =
understanding."
  -Albert Einstein


  -------------------------------------------------------
  SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
  from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
  informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
  speed, fast. =
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id=16492&op=3Dick<http://ads.osdn.com=
/?ad_idt77&alloc_id=16492&op=3Dick>
  _______________________________________________
  Dev-cpp-users mailing list
  =
Dev...@li...<mailto:Dev...@li...urceforg=
e.net>
  TO UNSUBSCRIBE: =
http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm<http://www23.brinkster.co=
m/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm>
  =
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users<https://lists.=
sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users>

Well, there is one other possible solution... since the list admin =
doesn't
seem interested in doing anything about this.
=20
If you just do what the email is requesting (click the link and fill out =
the
requested "box" by entering the five characters in the picture) you =
wouldn't
receive any further challenge emails from that person.

  _____ =20

From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of William =
Mc
Coy
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:43 AM
To: Josh McFarlane; lordSauron
Cc: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


Hi:
=20
   I agree, this is causing more headache's than it's worth. He could =
just
put DEVCPP on his accept list.
=20
   I thought I was the only one having problems with this JERK.
=20
                                        Sincerely,
=20
                                        William

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Josh McFarlane <mailto:da...@gm...> =20
To: lordSauron <mailto:lor...@gm...> =20
Cc: dev...@li...=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs

On 7/18/05, lordSauron <lor...@gm...> wrote:
> huh?
>=20
> I'm obviously missing something here.  what was all that
>=20
> > <SIGH>
> > For months, I've kept asking.
> > Guess what keeps happening?
> > Nothing, that's what!
> >
> > :-/,
> > Matt
> > </SIGH>
>=20
> thing about?
Some stupid stupid stupid user has a "spam-filter" set up that sends
an auto-message everytime you send a message to the users list. This
is horrible horrible horrible netique and they should be banned from
the list, but the owners seem not to care. I would post on here quite
regularly, but instead, I only post once in a blue moon due to the
annoyance that getting an auto-responder (not even in English or
translated none the less) that simply fills my email list.
=3D/

--=20
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by =
understanding."
-Albert Einstein


-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
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<http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id=16492&op=3Dick> =
&alloc_id=16492&op=3Dick
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Dev...@li...
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On 7/19/05, Thomas Smith <ml...@hp...> wrote:
> =20
> Well, there is one other possible solution... since the list admin doesn'=
t
> seem interested in doing anything about this.=20
>  =20
> If you just do what the email is requesting (click the link and fill out =
the
> requested "box" by entering the five characters in the picture) you would=
n't
> receive any further challenge emails from that person.

Except it goes against my fundamental values, as well as logs my email
address is some foreign mail server, which could possibly in the
future distribute it to spammers. Not to mention I abhor the challenge
email filter system, as it does nothing to combat the network
congestion that spam generates, and only further increases the
problem. Instead of helping to fix the spam problem, the mail servers
that employ it take the easy way out, and simply generate a message
for every incoming.

Be nice if the world worked that way. How would you feel if every
phone message you left, you had to call another number to confirm that
you really are who you are. Or want to pay a bill? Sure, just mail it
and then go in person to verify that you really sent the letter.

That's the absurdity of it to me.

--=20
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
-Albert Einstein

You have a good point, Josh. I hadn't considered the whole foreign email
situation you mentioned... Beyond that...

I personally advocate the challenge-response systems and use one myself.
They aren't without their flaws but the value they offer outweighs those
flaws. Further, there are architectures that minimize the burden on those
you email frequently (check out a-s-k.sf.net) buy incorporating
auto-whitelisting techniques that are impossible for spammers to detect
using their automated email-gathering tools (I have yet to hear of a
compromise of the ASK system).

Further, if you look at the direction the industry is headed you'd notice
that everyone will eventually be using some form of sender-based
authentication. There are several systems out there (Yahoo Domain Keys
quickly comes to mind... So does SPF). Though these systems differ somewhat
from a typical challenge-response system, the concept is the same--in order
to STOP spam, we must force the sender to verify they are valid users. I
don't think it matters much if that end is achieved using a "challenge"
email, or by verifying a valid MX server exists for the sender's domain, or
that the sender's MX server accepts inbound DSNs (similar to what
milter-sender does), and so on.

So, I absolutely advocate sender verification in the war against spam since
spammers have to use fake emails to conceal their identity and thus aren't
able to respond to such verifications.

You also mentioned "email" congestion. What about network congestion
introduced by checking blacklists or verifying Domain Keys?

No system is, or will ever, be perfect. I think it's a matter of choosing
the lesser of the available evils. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh McFarlane [mailto:da...@gm...] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:18 PM
To: Thomas Smith
Cc: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs

On 7/19/05, Thomas Smith <ml...@hp...> wrote:
>  
> Well, there is one other possible solution... since the list admin doesn't
> seem interested in doing anything about this. 
>   
> If you just do what the email is requesting (click the link and fill out
the
> requested "box" by entering the five characters in the picture) you
wouldn't
> receive any further challenge emails from that person.

Except it goes against my fundamental values, as well as logs my email
address is some foreign mail server, which could possibly in the
future distribute it to spammers. Not to mention I abhor the challenge
email filter system, as it does nothing to combat the network
congestion that spam generates, and only further increases the
problem. Instead of helping to fix the spam problem, the mail servers
that employ it take the easy way out, and simply generate a message
for every incoming.

Be nice if the world worked that way. How would you feel if every
phone message you left, you had to call another number to confirm that
you really are who you are. Or want to pay a bill? Sure, just mail it
and then go in person to verify that you really sent the letter.

That's the absurdity of it to me.

-- 
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
-Albert Einstein

Sorry for the misunderstanding, lordSauron. I was referring to the guy with
the spam filter ( mr-...@uo... )--I know you're not the spam guy
nor should you be removed from the list. Please accept my apologies (same
for Mr. McFarlane). I was tired when I wrote it and should've proofed it
better before clicking Send. Continuing...

The user that everyone's complaining about uses a challenge-response spam
filtering system similar to TMDA ( tmda.sf.net ) and ASK ( a-s-k.sf.net ),
except his may be a proprietary one provided by... his provider.

When properly configured, they work quit well. However, if the user doesn't
configure them correctly, as in this person's case, it can create problems.

-----Original Message-----
From: lordSauron [mailto:lor...@gm...] 
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 9:30 PM
To: Tom Smith
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs

On 7/18/05, Tom Smith <ml...@hp...> wrote:
> There's a particular user (Josh McFarlane) who uses a challenge-response
> spam filtering system. Everyone (including me) has been getting the
> automated "challenge" emails from this person. He apparently doesn't know
> (or hasn't been taught) how to use that type of spam filtering system.
So...
> 
> Here are a few hints:
> 
> 1) Either whitelist this mailing list's address so that all mail from this
> list is delivered to you unchallenged; OR
> 2) Create a unique email address for yourself just for mailing lists and
> allow all mail to be delivered to that address unchallenged.

I don't quite understand what you just said, but okay...

> Otherwise, as a number of others have requested, you should be removed
from
> this mailing list.

me?  Or the guy with the spam filter?  just to clear something up, I'm
lor...@gm..., *not* the spam guy - i really hope you
were mistaken or that you're thinking of the spam guy...  aren't you?

On 7/19/05, Tom Smith <ml...@hp...> wrote:
> Sorry for the misunderstanding, lordSauron. I was referring to the guy wi=
th
> the spam filter ( mr-...@uo... )--I know you're not the spam g=
uy
> nor should you be removed from the list. Please accept my apologies (same
> for Mr. McFarlane). I was tired when I wrote it and should've proofed it
> better before clicking Send. Continuing...

Bah... no biggie...  I do the same thing all the time.

> The user that everyone's complaining about uses a challenge-response spam
> filtering system similar to TMDA ( tmda.sf.net ) and ASK ( a-s-k.sf.net )=
,
> except his may be a proprietary one provided by... his provider.

I bet it works pretty well... too well, maybe ;)

I was responding to whomever complained about the guy who keeps spamming
list posters with his moronic UOL Anti-Spam click here to confirm system.

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of
lordSauron
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 8:42 PM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


huh?

I'm obviously missing something here.  what was all that

> <SIGH>
> For months, I've kept asking.
> Guess what keeps happening?
> Nothing, that's what!
> 
> :-/,
> Matt
> </SIGH>

thing about?


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Dev-cpp-users mailing list
Dev...@li...
TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/dev-cpp-users
___________________________________________________________________
The information contained in this message and any attachment may be
proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work
product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify me
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it and all
copies and backups thereof.  Thank you.

Aren't we being a bit harsh on the poor soul. True the spam filter thing =
is getting old and is rather inconsiderate, but maybe this person is =
completely new with this and we all just need to have some patience.

Let us all remember the days when we first got into using something for =
the first time and it didn't exactly work the way we wanted it too.

As for me, I just ignore and delete those messages when they come =
through. ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li... =
[mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of William =
Mc Coy
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:43 AM
To: Josh McFarlane; lordSauron
Cc: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


Hi:

   I agree, this is causing more headache's than it's worth. He could =
just put DEVCPP on his accept list.

   I thought I was the only one having problems with this JERK.

                                        Sincerely,

                                        William
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Josh McFarlane=20
To: lordSauron=20
Cc: dev...@li...=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


On 7/18/05, lordSauron <lor...@gm...> wrote:
> huh?
>=20
> I'm obviously missing something here.  what was all that
>=20
> > <SIGH>
> > For months, I've kept asking.
> > Guess what keeps happening?
> > Nothing, that's what!
> >
> > :-/,
> > Matt
> > </SIGH>
>=20
> thing about?
Some stupid stupid stupid user has a "spam-filter" set up that sends
an auto-message everytime you send a message to the users list. This
is horrible horrible horrible netique and they should be banned from
the list, but the owners seem not to care. I would post on here quite
regularly, but instead, I only post once in a blue moon due to the
annoyance that getting an auto-responder (not even in English or
translated none the less) that simply fills my email list.
=3D/

--=20
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by =
understanding."
-Albert Einstein


-------------------------------------------------------
SF.Net email is sponsored by: Discover Easy Linux Migration Strategies
from IBM. Find simple to follow Roadmaps, straightforward articles,
informative Webcasts and more! Get everything you need to get up to
speed, fast. http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idt77&alloc_id=16492&op=3Dick
_______________________________________________
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Dev...@li...
TO UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www23.brinkster.com/noicys/devcpp/ub.htm
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Right, we've all been there. This issue has apparently been brewing for =
some
time, though, and the user in question hasn't done anything to resolve =
the
problem. I haven't seen ANY posts from that person for ANY reason--so =
one
must wonder if he's even watching the email coming from this list and if =
he
is why is he not responding to everyone's concerns?=20

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...] On Behalf Of =
Guillermo
Gutierrez
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:46 AM
To: William Mc Coy; Josh McFarlane; lordSauron
Cc: dev...@li...
Subject: RE: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs

Aren't we being a bit harsh on the poor soul. True the spam filter thing =
is
getting old and is rather inconsiderate, but maybe this person is =
completely
new with this and we all just need to have some patience.

Let us all remember the days when we first got into using something for =
the
first time and it didn't exactly work the way we wanted it too.

As for me, I just ignore and delete those messages when they come =
through.
;)

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of William =
Mc
Coy
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 11:43 AM
To: Josh McFarlane; lordSauron
Cc: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


Hi:

   I agree, this is causing more headache's than it's worth. He could =
just
put DEVCPP on his accept list.

   I thought I was the only one having problems with this JERK.

                                        Sincerely,

                                        William
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Josh McFarlane=20
To: lordSauron=20
Cc: dev...@li...=20
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


On 7/18/05, lordSauron <lor...@gm...> wrote:
> huh?
>=20
> I'm obviously missing something here.  what was all that
>=20
> > <SIGH>
> > For months, I've kept asking.
> > Guess what keeps happening?
> > Nothing, that's what!
> >
> > :-/,
> > Matt
> > </SIGH>
>=20
> thing about?
Some stupid stupid stupid user has a "spam-filter" set up that sends
an auto-message everytime you send a message to the users list. This
is horrible horrible horrible netique and they should be banned from
the list, but the owners seem not to care. I would post on here quite
regularly, but instead, I only post once in a blue moon due to the
annoyance that getting an auto-responder (not even in English or
translated none the less) that simply fills my email list.
=3D/

--=20
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by =
understanding."
-Albert Einstein


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On 7/19/05, Guillermo Gutierrez <ggu...@ma...> wrote:
> Aren't we being a bit harsh on the poor soul. True the spam filter thing =
is getting old and is rather inconsiderate, but maybe this person is comple=
tely new with this and we all just need to have some patience.
>=20
> Let us all remember the days when we first got into using something for t=
he first time and it didn't exactly work the way we wanted it too.
>=20
> As for me, I just ignore and delete those messages when they come through=
. ;)

Hey, you might have a point there.

Except for two things:=20
A. It's been brought up before. Not a peep out of the user.
B. It's been at least 3 months.

This isn't a matter of the user not just understanding how to use
their filter. They've blatantly shown horrible horrible netique and
ignore any requests by us to disable it. Frankly I think they don't
care, and I think it's time the list-owner stepped up and kicked them
off so we can respond / ask questions without getting an
auto-responder everytime.


--=20
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
-Albert Einstein

I disagree with that course of action on principle if nothing else.

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of Thomas Smith
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:06 PM
To: dev...@li...
Subject: RE: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


Well, there is one other possible solution... since the list admin doesn't
seem interested in doing anything about this.
 
If you just do what the email is requesting (click the link and fill out the
requested "box" by entering the five characters in the picture) you wouldn't
receive any further challenge emails from that person.

___________________________________________________________________
The information contained in this message and any attachment may be
proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work
product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify me
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it and all
copies and backups thereof.  Thank you.

As always happens, once we make a system sufficiently widespread to be
useful, spammers will find a way to compromise it. The Yahoo System and SPF
do not do much about the business of shoddy / scumbag spam-supporting ISPs,
from whence the majority of the spam is sent. The shoddy ISPs will continue
to proliferate with their countless new domain names and IP addresses for
servers. They will sign their DNS / add DNS records as needed to allow them
to continue profiting from others' bad behvavior. Therefore I think they
will be more or less useless. Technical costs will never stop spam because
it's too simple to circumvent them. The only way to stop spam would have to
generate some kind of substantial economic cost. These systems are like
every other anti-spam system ever devised. They increase the complexity of
sending and receiving normal everyday mail while doing essentially nothing
to spam.

Clearly, sir, if "the industry" is headed toward using these solutions
(unlikely, SPF has been around forever), "the industry" is making a big
mistake. It will increase costs and will not substantially interfere with
spam. I can safely say that there is no better anti-spam system than the
delete key on your keyboard. All of these other "solutions" are broken and
do not address the fundamental reality of how spammers operate.


From spf.pobox.com:
"SPF fights return-path address forgery and makes it easier to identify
spoofs. Domain owners identify sending mail servers in DNS. SMTP receivers
verify the envelope sender address against this information, and can
distinguish authentic messages from forgeries before any message data is
transmitted."

From antispam.yahoo.com Domain Keys FAQ:
"Won't spammers just sign their messages with DomainKeys?

Hopefully! If they do, they'll make it easier for the Internet community to
isolate and drop/quarantine their messages using the methods described above
in "How will this help stop spam?" Eliminating the uncertainty of "did this
email really come from the domain example.com?" will facilitate a whole
range of anti-spam solutions."

-----Original Message-----
From: dev...@li...
[mailto:dev...@li...]On Behalf Of Thomas
Smith
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:47 PM
To: 'Josh McFarlane'; 'Thomas Smith'
Cc: dev...@li...
Subject: RE: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs


You have a good point, Josh. I hadn't considered the whole foreign email
situation you mentioned... Beyond that...

I personally advocate the challenge-response systems and use one myself.
They aren't without their flaws but the value they offer outweighs those
flaws. Further, there are architectures that minimize the burden on those
you email frequently (check out a-s-k.sf.net) buy incorporating
auto-whitelisting techniques that are impossible for spammers to detect
using their automated email-gathering tools (I have yet to hear of a
compromise of the ASK system).

Further, if you look at the direction the industry is headed you'd notice
that everyone will eventually be using some form of sender-based
authentication. There are several systems out there (Yahoo Domain Keys
quickly comes to mind... So does SPF). Though these systems differ somewhat
from a typical challenge-response system, the concept is the same--in order
to STOP spam, we must force the sender to verify they are valid users. I
don't think it matters much if that end is achieved using a "challenge"
email, or by verifying a valid MX server exists for the sender's domain, or
that the sender's MX server accepts inbound DSNs (similar to what
milter-sender does), and so on.

So, I absolutely advocate sender verification in the war against spam since
spammers have to use fake emails to conceal their identity and thus aren't
able to respond to such verifications.

You also mentioned "email" congestion. What about network congestion
introduced by checking blacklists or verifying Domain Keys?

No system is, or will ever, be perfect. I think it's a matter of choosing
the lesser of the available evils. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Josh McFarlane [mailto:da...@gm...] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:18 PM
To: Thomas Smith
Cc: dev...@li...
Subject: Re: Re: [Dev-C++] .net langwijs

On 7/19/05, Thomas Smith <ml...@hp...> wrote:
>  
> Well, there is one other possible solution... since the list admin doesn't
> seem interested in doing anything about this. 
>   
> If you just do what the email is requesting (click the link and fill out
the
> requested "box" by entering the five characters in the picture) you
wouldn't
> receive any further challenge emails from that person.

Except it goes against my fundamental values, as well as logs my email
address is some foreign mail server, which could possibly in the
future distribute it to spammers. Not to mention I abhor the challenge
email filter system, as it does nothing to combat the network
congestion that spam generates, and only further increases the
problem. Instead of helping to fix the spam problem, the mail servers
that employ it take the easy way out, and simply generate a message
for every incoming.

Be nice if the world worked that way. How would you feel if every
phone message you left, you had to call another number to confirm that
you really are who you are. Or want to pay a bill? Sure, just mail it
and then go in person to verify that you really sent the letter.

That's the absurdity of it to me.

-- 
Josh McFarlane

"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
-Albert Einstein



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___________________________________________________________________
The information contained in this message and any attachment may be
proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work
product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
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If you have received this communication in error, please notify me
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copies and backups thereof.  Thank you.

There's a very interesting solution being used in Europe against spammers.  It's a software application that periodically pings the offending ISP.  One recipient doing it is no problem.  However, once an ISP is known as a spam source, it gets pinged by a LOT of recipients.  The site bandwidth will bottom out at about 5%, which is what the application is set to do.
 
See http://www.spamhaus.org/index.lasso 
 
Also hunt up Lycos Europe Antispam tools for some neat ideas.  Hey, we're programmers here.  Can't we come up with a neat legal solution that is both efficacious and puts the ball back in the spammers court?
 
See http://news.com.com/Lycos+Europes+antispam+tool+no+longer+available/2100-7349_3-5476451.html
 

Mat...@Ve... wrote:
As always happens, once we make a system sufficiently widespread to be
useful, spammers will find a way to compromise it. The Yahoo System and SPF
do not do much about the business of shoddy / scumbag spam-supporting ISPs,
from whence the majority of the spam is sent. The shoddy ISPs will continue
to proliferate with their countless new domain names and IP addresses for
servers. They will sign their DNS / add DNS records as needed to allow them
to continue profiting from others' bad behvavior. Therefore I think they
will be more or less useless. Technical costs will never stop spam because
it's too simple to circumvent them. The only way to stop spam would have to
generate some kind of substantial economic cost. These systems are like
every other anti-spam system ever devised. They increase the complexity of
sending and receiving normal everyday mail while doing essentially nothing
to spam.
<snip>



Alfred P. Reaud
 

Hello All,

I need to do an GUI program that works in Windows and Linux,=20

Some one sugested to use wxWidgets, I downloaded the devpak, but it =
doesn't compile I get this error:

#    error  "Please define string case-insensitive compare for your =
OS/compiler"

in the wxchar.h file (I've also got in the string.h but I've been able =
to solve it (thanks to google))

Can any one help?

Hello Ricardo,

On 10 August 2005, 17:01:12, you wrote:


> I=A0need to do an GUI program that  works in Windows and Linux,=20

> Some one sugested to use wxWidgets, I  downloaded the devpak, but
> it doesn't compile I get this error:
=20
I would rather suggest you download and install wxDevCpp, from
http://wxdsgn.sourceforge.net

It is a version of DevCpp with the wxWidgets libraries already
installed, as well as an integrated form designer.

--=20
Best regards,
Malcolm                            mailto:m.n...@wa...