Wikidata:Property proposal/The New Mithraeum ID

The New Mithraeum ID

Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Authority control

Done: The New Mithraeum ID (P12909) (Talk and documentation)

Description	identifier for a monument of Mithras in The New Mithraeum database
Represents	mithraeum (Q1151014)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	mithraeum (Q1151014), archaeological artifact (Q220659), inscription (Q1640824), coin (Q41207)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example 1	London Mithraeum (Q1408799) → 25
Example 2	Fertőrákos mithraeum (Q1177999) → 36
Example 3	Circus Maximus Mithraeum (Q1939638) → 15
Source	https://www.mithraeum.eu/
Planned use	linking all mithraeum in Wikidata to the database
Number of IDs in source	787
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.mithraeum.eu//monument/$1

Motivation

The New Mithraeum Database is centered around ancient artefacts and temples (mithraeum) around Mithras. It is still a growing project as there is each year new discoveries about Mithras' cult. This new property would be a great addition to Wikidata as Mithras is one of the most studied god in Antiquity.

Notified participants of WikiProject Antiquity

Notified participants of WikiProject Ancient Rome

Notified participants of WikiProject Ancient Greece

--Liber008 (talk) 13:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support --Epìdosis 15:32, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Jahl de Vautban
Tolanor
JASHough
Jonathan Groß
Ahc84
Carbidfischer
Epìdosis
JBradyK
Joan Gené
DerMaxdorfer
Falten-Jura
DerHexer
Alexmar983
Demadrend
Liber008
Rybesh
ELexikon
Digitalphilologist
paregorios

Notified participants of WikiProject Antiquity

+

Notified participants of WikiProject Ancient Greece and

Notified participants of WikiProject Ancient Rome. --Epìdosis 15:33, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Jonathan Groß (talk) 16:02, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
leaning Oppose, as I have troubles to determine the scientific nature of the website. The editor http://accademiaromana.org/ (not to be confused with Academia Romana (Q338400)) seems to be some kind of New Age society, to which I'm not sure that we should associate. Anyway, the website hosts at least two databases, so the property should make clear that this is about the Monuments, not the Persons one. --Jahl de Vautban (talk) 19:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jahl de Vautban It is a crowdsourcing database, but it establishes URI for mithraeum and artefacts revolving across Mithras' cult. Many scholars such as Csaba T. Szabó (Q47506530) are participating in this database which also contains quality informations about localisation, discrovery date, epigraphic concordance across different databases, etc. If the database doesn't look science-based on the surface, the information it contains is rooted in scientific literature.

You are right that this property should only include the Monuments and not the Persons, thanks for the comment! Liber008 (talk) 19:46, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I changed the description and the URL to specify that it is only for the monument database. Liber008 (talk) 14:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In my humble opinion, it might be beneficial to include the people database as well. It contains scientific information, supported by scholars, on ancient Roman individuals who dedicated monuments to Mithras and other relevant people from antiquity related to the cult. Here are some examples: https://www.mithraeum.eu/person/274, https://www.mithraeum.eu/person/273 or https://www.mithraeum.eu/person/225 Zuzen (talk) 20:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liber008, Epìdosis, Jonathan Groß, Jahl de Vautban, Ahc84:, pinging for your attention. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 02:53, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When I look up the persons the first thing I see are what seems to be AI generated fantasy portraits claiming to depict the person, without any disclaimer of what these images actually are. Sorry, but this doesn't seem too scientific to me. Jonathan Groß (talk) 12:22, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jonathan Groß Although the AI portraits seems a bit weird, the individuals they are describing are real and rooted in scientific literature and historical sources (mainly inscriptions). They also provide accurate translations (from what I can see) of these inscriptions, which is rare.

We could then include the people database, but should we include it in this property or create a different one? Liber008 (talk) 12:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The AI portraits are just a visual licence to differentiate and personalise the hundreds of individuals included in the db, but there is no claim that they represent the actual individuals, which would be a silly thing to say since most of them date from the 1st to the 4th century. In fact, there is an explicit statement about these portraits on the credits page: "Images of ancient figures, collected in the Persons section, are all credited to Nvidia Research / Tero Karras, unless they are actual reproductions of ancient characters (from monuments, paintings, drawings, frescoes, coins or other sources), in which case they are licensed under a Creative Commons or public domain license." — https://www.mithraeum.eu/credits Zuzen (talk) 18:06, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Ahc84 (talk) 21:24, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Liber008, Epìdosis, Jonathan Groß, Jahl de Vautban, Ahc84: Done as The New Mithraeum ID (P12909). Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 06:47, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]