- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 16:08:00 -0500
- To: public-html@w3.org
=========================================== 1. why deprecate BLOCKQUOTE? =========================================== A) it is misused as presentational markup; B) it is a presentational model taken from print conventions, rather than semantic meaning. if Q was ubiquitously implemented, one could use styling rules to create a Q instance with the properties of a block quotation - that is, as a paragraph indented at least 5em on both left and right margins; C) BLOCKQUOTE has no semantic meaning - it is merely one means of many of demarcating any quote an arbitrary number of sentences long. D) a quote is a quote is a quote - how it is demarcated as a quote is a presentational matter; what is important is that the material be logically and consistently marked up, so why have 2 forms of QUOTE, when only one is needed? E) as a user of non-visual renderers, i would greatly appreciate my screen reader letting me know where a quote begins and where it ends, no matter how large or small the QUOTE, if i am to cite the quote, or go to the target at which it points, i have to know where it begins and ends, not whether it is indented and presented in a specific styling; this is part and parcel of my argument, outlined in my proposal for reforming the Q element: a user agent should recognize a quote when it encounters one, and apply aural or screen or print media selectors so that the end user knows where the quotation begins and where it ends; this is why i believe that emphatic quotes should be marked up using the EM element, and styled, if the author so desires, through the use of CSS-generated quotation marks; consult: [http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#quotes] F) BLOCKQUOTE, is - by definition - presentational in nature, and is used as a presentational, rather than a semantic element of document design slash implementation. the print convention of seperating a quote of more than 3 sentences in a block of text, seperated from the main text by blank lines at top and bottom, with twice the whitespace on left and right margins, than the main text. there is NOTHING semantically sensible about preserving BLOCKQUOTE, as a quote is a quote is a quote - what is important to the renderer is where does the quote begin and where does the quote end, so that appropriate style rules can be applied, either by default, specified by the author or subject to a client side styling rule; thus, it is up to the author, using CSS, to define the presentational characteristics a quote will take, if that author wishes to replicate the print convention of a BLOCKQUOTE. the only thing that seperates a BLOCKQUOTE from a Q (quote) is how it is rendered by a user agent; despite its distinctive styling, a quote is still a quote, is still a quote, and canonical HTML/XHTML should recognize that simple fact. G) Q itself MUST be reformed, with the attribute SRC replacing the current definition of the CITE attribute (a target URI from which the quote is taken, and the re-definition of the CITE attribute, to enable human-readable citations, as outlined in: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Apr/0065.html] =========================================== 2. lingering issues (feel free to add any): =========================================== A) Quotes will need to be nested within one another, for often one quotes a source which, in turn, quotes a third party; is redefining the Q element as neither an inline nor block element, but as a "flow" element, equal to this task? B) the Q element is defined in XHTML Strict as an inline element, but it will either need to be contained in the P element when used to indicate an extended quotation, or - optimally - the other way around, so that Q can be used inline, for brief quotations, as well as for extended quotations, such as dialogue from a play, citations from legal documents, or the use of a partial quote as part of contextualizing text which leads to an extended quote. <!-- begin example of Q as both an inline and a block element --> <P> <!-- string of intro text with a --><Q src="" cite=""></Q> <!-- nested in it, leading to an extended quote --> </P> <Q src="" cite=""> <P> </P> <P> </P> </Q> <!-- end example of Q as both an inline and a block element --> here is the barebones outline above with some flesh on the skeleton, as well as illustrating the possibility of using a for/id association with the source contained in a CITE instance: <P> <Q src="http://www.newarkeveningnews.com/archives/1941/January/21/1.html" for="q17>Conscious of our many problems,</Q>; Edison continued, </P> <P class="indented-quote"> <Q src="http://www.newarkeveningnews.com/archives/1941/January/21/1.html" for="q17" >I seek today to lay a foundation to our public policy. My fundamental purpose is to devote my term of office to raising the standard of public service in New Jersey. I want to say here and now, that I demand unshakable integrity of every State employee. </Q> </P> <P> Edison proceeded to assure the legislature that, as governor, he would <Q src="http://www.newarkeveningnews.com/archives/1941/January/21/1.html" for="q17">seek to cooperate with it in the advancement of the public interest</Q>, and pledged to predicate his exercise of gubernatorial authority </P> <Q src="http://www.newarkeveningnews.com/archives/1941/January/21/7.html" for="q17"> <P> upon the principle of promoting the common good. We all know that heavy demands are placed upon each one of us to play politics. We know also, that delay and obstruction of governmental action is the only certain result when that game is started. </P> <P> I am confident that this legislature will rise above partisan bickering, especially after the public promises its members made last fall, and that it will demonstrate a high capacity for civil service. </P> </Q> <P> Edison then renewed his pledge to <Q src="http://www.newarkeveningnews.com/archives/1941/January/21/7.html" for="q17">exert every effort to reduce public expenses</Q>, and called upon <Q src="http://www.newarkeveningnews.com/archives/1941/January/21/7.html" for="q17">all public officials in the State and local governments</Q> to do likewise. </P> <!-- ... --> <h2>Bibliography</h2> <ul> <li> <cite id="q17">Edison Inaugural Discuss Labor, Education, Reform; Calls Defense First Concern; Will Ask Legislation to Protect Production Program in State; Text of Governor Edison's Message. (Newark Evening News, January 21, 1941; pages 1,7)</cite> </li> </ul> ------------------------------------------------------------------- ABSURDITY, n. A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion. -- Ambrose Bierce (The Devils' Dictionary) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregory J. Rosmaita, oedipus@hicom.net -------------------------------------------------------------------
Received on Monday, 2 April 2007 21:08:39 UTC