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==[[Appendix:Proto-Germanic]]== |
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What is this page for, exactly? It seems redundant to [[Index:Proto-Germanic]]... {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 12:25, 19 August 2012 (UTC) |
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== [[quasi#French]] == |
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The tag was "dated or literary". The only reason to change it to just "literary" would be if you think that it was ''never'' a normal word, and has ''always'' been strictly a literary term. —[[User: Ruakh |Ruakh]]<sub ><small ><i >[[User talk: Ruakh |TALK]]</i ></small ></sub > 16:08, 2 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== Welcome == |
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Firstly: {{temp|term}} does have a spot for glosses. To see how to use it, please refer to [http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=vietininkas&diff=18093145&oldid=18093135 this change] I made to [[vietininkas]]. Also, I have no idea how you made it this long without being welcomed. Therefore: |
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'''Welcome!''' |
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Hello, [[Wiktionary:Welcome, newcomers|welcome to Wiktionary]], and thank you for your contributions so far. Here are a few good links for newcomers: |
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* [[Help:How to edit a page|How to edit a page]] is a concise list of technical guidelines to the wiki format we use here: how to, for example, make text boldfaced or create [[hyperlink]]s. Feel free to practice in the [[Wiktionary:Sandbox|sandbox]]. If you would like a slower introduction we have a short [[Wiktionary:Tutorial|tutorial]]. |
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* [[Wiktionary:Entry layout explained|Entry layout explained]] (ELE) is a detailed policy documenting how Wiktionary pages should be formatted. All entries should conform to this standard, the easiest way to do this is to copy exactly an existing page for a similar word. |
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* Our [[Wiktionary:Criteria for inclusion|Criteria for inclusion]] (CFI) define exactly which words Wiktionary is interested in including. There is also a list of things that [[Wiktionary:What Wiktionary is not|Wiktionary is not]] for a higher level overview. |
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* If you already have some experience with editing our sister project [[w:Main page|Wikipedia]], then you may find our [[Wiktionary:Wiktionary for Wikipedians|guide to Wikipedia users]] useful. |
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* The [[Help:FAQ|FAQ]] aims to answer most of your remaining questions, and there are several [[Help:Contents|help pages]] that you can browse for more information. |
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* We have [[Wiktionary:Discussion rooms|discussion rooms]] in which you can ask any question about Wiktionary or its entries, a [[Wiktionary:Glossary|glossary]] of our technical jargon, and some hints for dealing with the more common [[Help:Interacting with humans|communication issues]]. |
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Also, please add a [[WT:Babel|BabelBox]] to your userpage so we can help you with the languages you'll be working in. |
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a [[Wiktionary:Wiktionarians|Wiktionarian]]! If you have any questions, bring them to the [[Wiktionary:Information desk]], or ask me on [[User talk:Metaknowledge|my talk page]]. If you do so, please sign your posts with four tildes: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> which automatically produces your username and the current date and time. |
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Again, welcome! --[[User:Metaknowledge|Μετάknowledge]]<small><sup>''[[User talk:Metaknowledge|discuss]]/[[Special:Contributions/Metaknowledge|deeds]]''</sup></small> 23:57, 8 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== Etymology "compare to" and "→ see". == |
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Firstly — an English source writing about the Lithuanian word {{m|lt|laikas}} might say "Compare Latvian {{m|lv|laiks}}", but never "Compare <u>to</u> Latvian {{m|lv|laiks}}". (I admit, this is completely arbitrary — logically, comparing ''laikas'' to ''laiks'' is the same as comparing ''laiks'' to ''laikas'', so the two phrases should be equivalent — but for whatever reason, one is common, and the other sounds bizarre.) |
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Secondly — in my opinion, even "Compare Latvian {{m|lv|laiks}}" is not a very good etymology, because it's not clear what you're trying to say. I think it would be better to say something like one of these: |
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* Cognate with Latvian {{m|lv|laiks}}. |
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* Presumably related to Latvian {{m|lv|laiks}}. |
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* Unknown. Perhaps related to Latvian {{m|lv|laiks}}. |
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(depending what you mean). |
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Thirdly — unlike the French Wiktionary, we don't use the "→ see" notation in etymologies (as you did at [[[[skaitvardis]]]]). We don't have a clear alternative that we use instead, but we don't use that. :-/ Is [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/skaitvardis?diff=18256582 this] O.K.? |
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—[[User: Ruakh |Ruakh]]<sub ><small ><i >[[User talk: Ruakh |TALK]]</i ></small ></sub > 18:22, 23 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== lv & lt == |
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Bonjour! Tu viens de me poser une question sur le niveau de similarité entre le lituanien et le letton. À mon avis (et c'est bien une question subjective), ces langues sont aussi distinctes que l'anglais et l'allemand. Si l'on connaît bien l'une de ces deux langues, on ne comprendra pas forcément l'autre, bien qu'il soit possible de reconnaître pas mal de mots cognats (comme [[laiks]] et [[laikas]], qui n'ont pas le même sens...). Il est sûrement plus facile pour un Letton d'apprendre à parler lituanien que pour un Français (ou pour un Brésilien comme moi), mais il lui faudra encore quelques années d'étude pour arriver à lire et à parler correctement... |
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Tu t'intéresses au lituanien? Qu'as-tu l'intention de faire avec cette langue au wiktionary anglophone? --[[User:Pereru|Pereru]] ([[User talk:Pereru|talk]]) 18:53, 1 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== HotCat == |
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Please note that categories can be added much more quickly if you use HotCat, which can be enabled at [[WT:PREFS]]. Thanks! —[[User:Metaknowledge|Μετάknowledge]]<small><sup>''[[User talk:Metaknowledge|discuss]]/[[Special:Contributions/Metaknowledge|deeds]]''</sup></small> 22:37, 3 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== [[desmit]] == |
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Voilà! C'est fait! :-) --[[User:Pereru|Pereru]] ([[User talk:Pereru|talk]]) 16:31, 25 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Template interwiki links == |
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Please add interwiki template links to the template's ''documentation'' page, not in the template itself. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:10, 9 December 2012 (UTC) |
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== [[craindre]] == |
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to suck in which sense? [[User:Mglovesfun|Mglovesfun]] ([[User talk:Mglovesfun|talk]]) 19:52, 28 August 2013 (UTC) |
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== Latin etymology dictionary == |
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Do you have access to this book? I looked for it but it's prohibitively expensive. {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 00:00, 11 January 2014 (UTC) |
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== ''ocris'' and Latin archaic terms == |
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{{Talkback|I'm so meta even this acronym|ocris|ts=16:23, 3 February 2014 (UTC)}} |
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== [[Module:la-verb]] == |
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I started this module, and I'll try to see how far I get with reimplementing our current inflection tables. I don't know all the intricacies of Latin inflection though, just the basics (four conjugations and the io-type is about as much as I know), so is it ok if I ask you to be my consultant? :) {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 22:43, 8 February 2014 (UTC) |
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:Sure! Thanks for taking care of it. --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 22:44, 8 February 2014 (UTC) |
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I converted {{temp|la-conj-1st}}, {{temp|la-conj-2nd}}, {{temp|la-conj-3rd}}, {{temp|la-conj-3rd-IO}} and {{temp|la-conj-4th}} to use the module, and it seems to work ok. I'm not finished with it yet, there is a lot that could be improved, but it works at least. Could you check it to make sure it's all ok? {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 02:14, 9 February 2014 (UTC) |
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{{temp|la-conj-1st-depon}}, {{temp|la-conj-2nd-depon}}, {{temp|la-conj-3rd-depon}}, {{temp|la-conj-3rd-IO-depon}} and {{temp|la-conj-4th-depon}} have now been converted as well. {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 16:28, 9 February 2014 (UTC) |
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{{temp|la-conj-2nd-semi}} and {{temp|la-conj-3rd-semi}} are done. I noticed that the deponent verbs have both an active (-turus) and a passive (-ndus) future participle, but the semi-deponent verbs only have the active participle. Is that correct? {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 18:44, 9 February 2014 (UTC) |
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I did the -pass3p templates now too. But I'm a bit confused by the -nopass templates. I left a question in the Tea Room, could you have a look at it? {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 02:09, 10 February 2014 (UTC) |
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The templates are mostly finished now, see [[:Category:Latin verb inflection-table templates]]. There are a few that I'm not sure what to do with yet: {{temp|la-conj-2nd-noperf}}, {{temp|la-conj-2nd-redup}}, {{temp|la-conj-3rd-no234}} and {{temp|la-conj-3rd-redup}}. Could you look at these? The "redup" templates seem to be exactly the same as the regular ones, except that they add an extra category, so I don't know if it's useful to keep them at all. {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 22:19, 14 February 2014 (UTC) |
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== cases of == |
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Hello. You've been doing some tremendous work in Ancient Greek, but I hadn't had an excuse to come over and say hi until now. I noticed that you handled the "accusative of person" very nicely on one of your entries (I'm sorry to say that I can't recall which one at the moment). I've noticed abbreviations like "gen. rei" in the LSJ for a long time, but have only recently figured out what they mean, and truth be told still don't completely understand all the abbreviations. I was wondering if you possibly had a list of them all somewhere, and if you had any specific thoughts on their placement in Wiktionary entries. Thanks very much, and please let me know if there's anything I can do for you. -[[User:Atelaes|Atelaes]] <small>[[User talk:Atelaes|λάλει ἐμοί]]</small> 19:19, 9 February 2014 (UTC) |
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== Latin shortened imperatives == |
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The verbs {{m|la|dīcō}}, {{m|la|dūcō}}, {{m|la|faciō}} and {{m|la|ferō}} apparently have an imperative that lacks the -e. I wonder two things: |
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* Does this also apply to derived verbs, or only to the base verb? |
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* Does the regular imperative with -e also exist? |
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{{User:CodeCat/signature}} 22:43, 11 February 2014 (UTC) |
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== [[ἕωθεν]] == |
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The quote from Homer came from [http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nY-5r76h7SwC&pg=PA151&dq=%CE%B7%CF%89%CE%B8%CE%B5%CE%BD&hl=en&sa=X&ei=7rUCU_OmK-Ou7Ab65oDoCQ&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%CE%B7%CF%89%CE%B8%CE%B5%CE%BD&f=true here], spelled with an eta. '''[[User:Spinningspark|<font style="background:#fafad2;color:#C08000">Spinning</font>]][[User talk:Spinningspark|<font style="color:#4840a0">Spark'''</font>]]''' 02:50, 18 February 2014 (UTC) |
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== Ordinals == |
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septimus is 7th, not 17th. |
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In Latin, the next number after 12th that has it's own word is 18th. |
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I don't think we have entries for phrases like "septimus decim" which is 17th |
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It's a tough call. We jump straight from 20th to 30th, and that seems OK. |
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I agree it's disturbing, but I don't have a better idea. |
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While we're on the subject, there are also Latin words for 28, 29, 38, 39, ..., 98, 99. How do those fit in? |
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Looking at other languages, the ordinal/cardinal boxes usually disappear as soon as "next" becomes problematic. Latin cardinal 20 has a dead link to 21, which seems less useful than a live link to 30. |
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See also https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour/2014/April#Previous_and_Next_in_ordinalbox_and_cardinalbox |
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== Alternative forms == |
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There was a discussion a while ago where it was agreed that the "alternative forms" category should not contain any entries. {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 18:40, 13 April 2014 (UTC) |
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== No passive? == |
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Passive forms of [[perdo]] are easily attestable on Google Books. Why have you removed them from the conjugation table and tagged their entries for speedy deletion? —[[User:Mr. Granger|Mr. Granger]] ([[User talk:Mr. Granger|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mr. Granger|contribs]]) 22:04, 13 April 2014 (UTC) |
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== [[cuiae]], etc. == |
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In a similar vein to the previous: the [http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=cuiae&la=la#lexicon Perseus Latin Word Study Tool] finds nothing wrong with most of the forms you've marked for deletion, and at least this one [http://books.google.com/books?id=fPoV3LuMJPYC&dq=%22cuiae%22&pg=PA72#v=onepage&q=%22cuiae%22&f=false seems to be attested] (I haven't checked the others, but I suspect the results will be similar). That's not to say all those entries are correct as written (I don't know Latin well enough enough to say one way or the other)- but marking an entry for deletion is equivalent to saying that you're positive that there are no terms of any sort that include that spelling anywhere in their paradigm. Please do at least a cursory check before marking things for deletion. Thanks. [[User:Chuck Entz|Chuck Entz]] ([[User talk:Chuck Entz|talk]]) 06:34, 23 April 2014 (UTC) |
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:... Well, it seems I was really mistaken this time. I have no mercy fo garbage, and tend to have no patience when I think I see some. My bad. --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 07:26, 23 April 2014 (UTC) |
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== [[timeo]] == |
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The inflection table is showing an error here, apparently because the supine stem is missing. But the headword line suggests there is no supine. So I'm a bit unsure what to do here... {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 00:14, 26 April 2014 (UTC) |
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[[User:kc kennylau]] has removed the passive forms instead. Is that correct? {{User:CodeCat/signature}} 22:37, 27 April 2014 (UTC) |
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== {{temp|el-L-arrow}} == |
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I have deleted this template which I think I originally created to match {{temp|el-R-arrow}}. — <font color="#1e90ff">[[User:Saltmarsh|Saltmarsh]]</font><sup><font color="#ff1493">[[User talk:Saltmarsh|απάντηση]]</font></sup> 06:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC) |
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== [[ποιέω]] == |
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[https://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%B9%CE%AD%CF%89&oldid=29012464 "For some reason, the model doesn't strip these words of their breves."] |
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I'm aware of this; there's been a [[User talk:I'm_so_meta_even_this_acronym#Marking_vowel_length_in_Ancient_Greek|discussion]] and [[User talk:Atelaes#grc_entry_names|request for Atelaes]] to change this. I figure, until that's done, it's better just to mark breves so that more pages will have them once the fix is implemented. [[User:ObsequiousNewt|ObsequiousNewt]] ([[User talk:ObsequiousNewt|ἔβαζα]]|[[Special:Contributions/ObsequiousNewt|ἐτλέλεσα]]) 22:34, 22 September 2014 (UTC) |
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== A. Greek prosody question == |
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I have inferred that all Ancient Greek proparoxytones have short vowels in their ults and penults; can you tell me whether this is the case, please? — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 13:23, 29 November 2014 (UTC) |
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== Latin question == |
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At [[Wiktionary:Beer parlour/2015/January#Lemma dilemma]], I mentioned a hypothetical Latin phrase, "a big dog and a small cat". If this were to be phrased using {{m|la|-que}} to join the two halves, and "small" (whatever the Latin translation is) precedes "cat", then which word is {{m|la||-que}} attached to, "small" or "cat"? —[[User:CodeCat|CodeCa]][[User talk:CodeCat|t]] 15:15, 7 January 2015 (UTC) |
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:I don't think there would be any obligation. You could say ''magnus canis parvaque feles, canis magnus felesque parva'' or even ''magnus canis felesque parva, canis magnus parvaque feles''. --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 16:27, 7 January 2015 (UTC) |
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==[[ἰσχίον]]== |
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Hi Fsojic. ''Re'' {{diff|32345014|32345003|this IPA you added}}, is the {{lang|grc|ἰ}} in {{m|grc|ἰσχίον|tr=-}} long or short? — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 13:14, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:I unfortunately have no idea. --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 13:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:: Hmm. Is it safe to infer from the Latin {{m|la|ischion}} that it's short? — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 13:34, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::: Do you have some indication on the length of the first ''i'' in {{m|la|ischion}}? --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 14:09, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:::: Just that the ''OLD'' omits a macron, I suppose… Too flimsy? — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 14:13, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::::: I wouldn't rely on that: Lewis and Short (I suppose that is what you mean by OLD) don't indicate vowel lengths in closed syllables. See for example {{m|la|iūstus}} and [http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0059:entry=justus its entry on L&S]. And even if the vowel length was indicated in this case, I don't think we could be a hundred percent sure it would reflect faithfully the Greek etymon. --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 14:27, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:::::: Nope; I meant the ''{{w|Oxford Latin Dictionary}}''. I guess we'll just have to leave the vowel ambiguous, at least for now. — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 15:27, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::::::: Is there an online version of it, or do you have it at home? In any case, does it give the vowel lengths in closed syllables? --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 15:37, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:::::::: 1) I've sent you an e-mail about it. 2) AFAICT, yes. — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 15:43, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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==From the Ancient Greek== |
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Just a friendly question - why have you been adding '''the''' to etymologies - while colloquially I might say "from the Ancient Greek", Wiktionary says for example "from Old French" (see [[science]] - not "'''the''' Old French"). You'll have a big job on if you're going to change all our etymologies! — <font color="#1e90ff">[[User:Saltmarsh|Saltmarsh]]</font><sup><font color="#ff1493">[[User_talk:Saltmarsh|συζήτηση-talk]]</font></sup> 16:53, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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: {{ping|Saltmarsh}} isn't it more elegant to add ''the'' in this case? I think {{ping|I'm so meta even this acronym|p=}} usually does this, that's why I've taken up the habit. --[[User:Fsojic|Fsojic]] ([[User talk:Fsojic|talk]]) 17:46, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:: Fine! You'll have a big job. — <font color="#1e90ff">[[User:Saltmarsh|Saltmarsh]]</font><sup><font color="#ff1493">[[User_talk:Saltmarsh|συζήτηση-talk]]</font></sup> 19:12, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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:: As with all matters of style, tastes differ. One person's elegance is another's pretentious clutter. [[User:Chuck Entz|Chuck Entz]] ([[User talk:Chuck Entz|talk]]) 19:40, 15 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::: {{reply to|Saltmarsh|Chuck Entz}} I should explain my reason for prepending "the" before language names specifying originating languages of etyma: |
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::: I read etymologies as describing word-histories in natural language, albeit elliptically, in the form "[The <tt>lang-1</tt> term ''<tt>term-1</tt>'' derives f]rom the <tt>lang-2</tt> [term] ''<tt>term-2</tt>'', [which derives] from the <tt>lang-3</tt> [term] ''<tt>term-3</tt>'' […]". Consider, for example, the etymology of the Bislama word {{m|bi|wota}} (q.v.): Wouldn't saying "Bislama {{m|bi||wota}} derives from English {{m|en||water}}" sound like one were saying that Vanuatu's water is imported from Britain? Of course, context (as do a few other considerations) makes such an interpretation absurd. Nevertheless, omitting "the" before language names is ungrammatical insofar as it diverges from utterable English; you can say "the Bislama {{m|bi||wota}} is from the English {{m|en||water}}, from the Middle English {{m|enm||water}}, from the Old English {{m|ang||wæter}}…" (omitting "term", "which in turn derives", etc.) without irksomeness, but saying "Bislama {{m|bi||wota}} is from English {{m|en||water}}, from Middle English {{m|enm||water}}, from Old English {{m|ang||wæter}}…" just sounds wrong. |
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::: I don't suppose it really matters, but it has been determined that we should use "from" instead of ⟨ < ⟩ in etymologies, on the basis of similar appeals to natural language. I just hope that my rationale at least makes sense. — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 23:04, 16 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks, that does make sense; I'll try and remember to save anyone the trouble of editing my (few) etymologies! — <font color="#1e90ff">[[User:Saltmarsh|Saltmarsh]]</font><sup><font color="#ff1493">[[User_talk:Saltmarsh|συζήτηση-talk]]</font></sup> 06:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC) |
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::::: {{reply to|Saltmarsh}} Much obliged. — [[User:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|I.S.]][[User talk:I'm so meta even this acronym#NO BOLD|M.E.T.A.]] 10:25, 17 March 2015 (UTC) |
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==So you want to learn Devanagari== |
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[http://www.omniglot.com/language/articles/devanagari.htm], [http://www.learning-hindi.com/post/1021543673/intro-3-devanagari-the-hindi-alphabet], [[w:Devanagari|Wikipedia]]. Some links. —[[User:Aryamanarora|Aryamanarora]] <sup>''([[User talk:Aryamanarora|मुझसे बात करो]])''</sup> 18:50, 20 December 2015 (UTC) |
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