User talk:Ikan Kekek

Hello, everybody! If you'd like to discuss anything with me, please post new topics at the bottom of the page and sign the posts with 4 tildes (the ~ key) in a row. Thanks!

Currently inactive discussions can be found at User talk:Ikan Kekek/archive. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:00, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Malay pronunciation

I wonder if this might be a difference between the Singapore dialect and the Terengganu dialect, but at least the way I've pronounce the t, p and k in Malay has always been unaspirated. In other words, closer to the Italian pronunciation than the English pronunciation. Although of course, unlike Chinese, Malay doesn't make that distinction between aspirated and tenuis, so you'll be understood if you pronounce them the English way. The dog2 (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't know only Terengganu dialect. Remember, I went to Sekolah Kebangsaan for 2 years, and I also spent time in K.L. The point of unaspirated consonants is that you make the shape of them at the end of a syllable without any other sound. How are you pronouncing a word like "peduli" without any aspiration? You can't, because there would be no sound. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:37, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

OK, I guess it's a matter of relative aspiration then. But as an example from Chinese, the "b" in Beijing is not the same as the English b, because unlike in English, it is not voiced, so it will sound like a "p" to English speakers. That is how I usually pronounce the "p" in Malay. If you speak Italian, you'll probably notice how Italians say their p's without that strong puff of air that English speakers have. In the case of Malay, it's not an important distinction, but some Chinese dialects (Hokkien/Minnan and Teochew are examples) do make that 3-way distinction between voiced, tenuis and aspirated. The dog2 (talk) 17:05, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

I speak Italian, too. I will stipulate that my aspiration in "sepuluh" is not as strong as it is in "pull," but it's certainly not the same as unaspirated Ps at the ends of Malay words. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:07, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Line-ups

Re: "I don't know which dialect of English uses "line-ups" for something other than groups in which one may be a criminal."

That would be us to your north. We have line-ups at Tim Hortons, for poutine, and to get beer at the curling club, but that shouldn't be in an article on Jordan. I am surprised that "line-ups" makes you think of police situations only. Ground Zero (talk) 07:57, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Interesting. Maybe there are parts of the U.S. where lines are called lineups, too, but in New York, I think those are only situations in which an alleged witness looks at a group of possible suspects through a one-way glass and is asked to identify the alleged perpetrator. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:03, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Image density

I wonder, do you find the amount of images in Turku riverside walk suitable? For me there is one or two images per screenful (except the first), and I think the layout works well. The first screenful has the pagebanner and three images in Understand, which is plenty, but I wanted to show the character of different sections up front.

As you were critical to the amount of images in Finnish national parks, I'd like you to have a look, if you have the time. Do you find the amount excessive? I don't think I am going to remove any from this itinerary now, but it'd be good to know what I should aim for in other articles.

–LPfi (talk) 19:14, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. Turku riverside walk looks very good; the only possible improvement I can see is maybe to add an image to "Get in." I'll have a look at the other article later. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:40, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I really appreciate your feedback. I added an image. –LPfi (talk) 14:39, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Image density II

Hi Ikan, just wondering as you said that the images in Tasmanian national parks violate the image policy, are there any suggestions that you have as to which images should be removed? The article is 44.2k bytes and 34 images, and so per 1 image per 1000-2000 bytes, theoretically you could have all of them if you were to follow the bare minimum at 1 per 1000 bytes, but I'd like you to have a look when you get the time to, because I am not sure which ones to remove because they each portray a meaning and removing them would mean that some meaning may be lost. At the same time, the article should not be violating the image policy, so I agree that some of them should be removed, but this is not a high priority so take your own time. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:34, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for the question. However, part of the problem in that article is the cells given to national parks, such that there's a lot of blank space to make a photo of every one fit in the cell, so I don't see any way to discuss images as long as that setup remains. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:48, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Oh well. It is a similar issue with Canadian national parks too so I'll start a discussion soon on Talk:National parks regarding how they should be formatted. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:51, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

re: Special:Diff/4416890 on Overseas Chinese cuisine

Feel free to :-). My insights were to create an article somewhat like Western food in Asia. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:05, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I forgot what I was going to say. I'll come back to this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

What I was going to say is that I doubt Singapore needs a different heading from Malaysia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:52, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

to be fair, I don't really have an opinion on it. I was maybe thinking on going a bit more into detail about Singapore's Chinatown but maybe I'm biased as I've spent more time in Singapore than Malaysia, particularly in Chinatown. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:33, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Singapore now has its own section (with content), so I guess it can stay as it is. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:40, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Happy 100000th :-)

Hey Ikan, I just noticed you passed your 100000th edit :-) Thank you for all the work you've put into this site, from copyediting, to dealing with touts and your contributions to destinations and topic articles too. As you're the first to have passed 100k edits (that is not traveler100bot), this is a huge milestone for the entire Wikivoyage from its advancement since the times of what is now a museum piece IMO ;-). Have a butter tart (or several). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:56, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Wow, that's astonishing. I don't know whether to feel good about this or not, but thanks for the calorie-free butter tart pictures! Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:03, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Reasons for Poutine change

Hi there

I wanted to properly explain the reason why I did those changes. You see, it's about cultural credit and a history of the dish being plagiarized by anglo-canadians (despite opposition to cultural appropriation being prevalent in their society) and them getting all the credit and glory for its creation, resulting in it being associated internationally with the english-speaking nation that led to Canada as we know it instead of the nation of quebec, despite the former having nothing to do with its creation. It's also about a possible double-standard, as I'm certain the national dish of Scotland would be presented here as Scottish dish (and not as an english/british dish) and a national dish of the Sapmis as a Sapmi dish (and not a Norwegian or Finnish one) out of respect and simple accuracy for viewers wishing to get an idea and not getting confused between two largely different cultures.

But probably the most important reason is to prevent confusion to viewers on wikivoyage, as said earlier. When you see "Canadian culture" and "Québécois culture", you rightfully expect different things, different travel experiences. So when you want a Québécois dish or an (anglo) Canadian dish (whatever that even exists), you shouldn't be confused as to what is what, that's the goal of this wiki : to make travel planning (or travel window shopping) an ease based on what you want to experience.

Also, the rest of the page presented it as quebecois, so it's about consistency. If it's the "where it originated from" sentence pose a problem, let's remove it to avoid redundancy, the "Quebecois dish" in the first sentence already saying it out loud. It's simple innocent respect and accuracy, that's all.

Have a wonderful day --166.62.226.25 16:14, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

It was clear what your motivation was, and I even have some sympathy with it, to a point (as I'm not sure what you really intend by emphasizing Quebec as a "nation"), but I don't agree with your conclusions. Canada is not an English-speaking country; it's a bilingual country. Anyway, I think none of this is travel-related. I suggest you make your argument on the talk page of the fast food article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:21, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

On the contrary, it is quite travel-related, read again my second paragraph. Not doing these changes is misleading those who wishes a québécois experience. And not acknowledging the double-standard is just showing how all of this is unfair and not respecting the consistency in logic this wiki demand across all its pages.

Since you insisted on expressing your point of view regarding non-travel stuff, I'll express mine for fairness. On paper it is bilingual, in reality, behind the shinny happy facade, it is not and those that speak french like Québécois get the short end of the stick in front of quebec-bashing and rampant anti-french language sentiments, personal experience here (really personal, that's why I'm, to be frank, a bit offended right now by what I perceive to be denial of the existence of these things). The "Canadian identity" (whatever that is, considering what Canada brags about being its distinct national identity was 90% stolen from Quebecois culture, from lumberjacks, to maple leafs as a symbol, to national anthems, to nearly all maple syrup production, to traditional clothes, to modern ice hockey, to cinema, to architectural styles...to poutine and even the term "canadian" itself ; canadiana is in reality québecaia, a big imperialist steal with an english crown on top of it) was politically and socially built and managed by english Canada, not Quebec (so much that there's a term for it, the RoC or "Rest of Canada" to design what's not Quebec as a socio-political block or "two solitudes" as it is funnily known in the RoC), so THAT's why I said it being the anglocanadian "nation" which led to modern Canada as it is perceived at home and outside : it's a simple historical fact, nothing political in it, bilingualism wasn't even official until the late 60s and the constitution itself is to this day legally valid in english only. Nation and country are two different things : there are countries with multiple recognized nations, like the UK, Ethiopia, Russia and Canada. Wikivoyage respectfully acknowledged the existence of these nations as equals to those that got their nation-state by allowing their adjectives to be used in priority, why not Quebec?

What I was intending by emphazing Quebec was the due right to existence under its own name, something the whole world can't seem to do by canadawashing the identity of great Quebecois figures, sites and overall culture (Wikipédia being also one main exemple, in french or in english). Respect, is that too much to ask?

Finally, yeah, good idea, I'll go make a point on the talk page. Thank you for the idea and for the sympathy. --166.62.226.25 19:26, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Sure thing; we'll have a discussion there. I would have to think First Nations peoples would have something to say about what was stolen from whom, but besides, the idea that almost everything in Canada is stolen from the Quebecois is a little strange to a fan of Cape Breton fiddling, and I think people in British Columbia would find that kind of claim puzzling. Don't get me wrong; I speak pretty good French when in practice (though from time spent in France) and have visited Quebec City and Montreal and love them (and if I had to go into exile, I'd love the opportunity to live in Montreal if it presented itself to me, though I doubt it would), so I have no dog in this fight but have to wonder whether bending in one direction or the other is really being fair. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:40, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

As fair as undoing centuries of oppression and attempts at eradicating our very identity as a distinct people "without culture or without history" to quote someone important whose vision would become the blueprint for modern canada in that regard. Canada as we now know it was not just built under the oppression of our Indigenous historic brothers, but ourselves and anyone that speaks french too. I appreciate your appreciation of Quebec and french but that's your personal experience and, sadly, you're in the minority. Trust me, I've seen seen or heard so many crappy things, including directly at me, that it made me an advocate for Quebec independence when I was beforehand a hardcore oh Canada federalist just a few years earlier, being able to make someone turn 180 degrees like that need some serious stuff.

I say "Stolen" because it isn't usual cultural fusion as equals, the same kind that created all national cultures in Europe and Asia (as was the case of the québécois culture that was born out of one of those willing fusions; the franco-indigenous alliance, where economy, rather positive views outside the Iroquois, war comradry and proximity of the "habitants", those non-nobles that were born or attached to Quebec rather than France during New France, to the Indigenous people influenced a lot the culture and minds of the future québécois away from France to the anger of the shocked catholic church) but plagiarism (having one culture taking credit for something they took from another culture, aka stealing, to the point people buy it and say "canadian" when talking about things Québec). Québécois culture proudly point out the indigenous origins of the elements that were integrated into it like raquettes, kayaks, mocassins or maple syrup (notice I said majority of the CURRENT PRODUCTION of maple syrup, not maple syrup by itself in my previous comment), no one here think otherwise, no plagiarism, proper credit gets where it should. It's not to say either that the european settlers didn't create original things of their own, just that no culture is born out of a vaccuum and cultural fusion and sharing should be celebrated as they create new nations, just like in Europe or Asia. And it's not like your country doesn't have potential for a great unified national culture (like with that Cape Breton fiddling, best island ever btw), you just don't try it, instead its advertised and internationally recognized as as such: Toronto (aka New York lite), Queen, mooses and beavers, less and less brands, stereotypes (the lumberjack and modern ice hockey one being stolen, correct word, from Quebecois culture), US carbon copy stuff plus indigenous stuff. Prince Edward Island, Cape Breton Island and Newfoundland are close to Québec in terms of having nationalistic distinct things from anyone else (just being a hub for outside cultures doesn't count as "distinct").

My problem is that what is québécois culture is not recognized as such internationally but under the annoying and uncalled for label "canadian" or the exonym "french-canadian", allowing the english canada that identify as such ("canadian") to take all credit and glory for itself saying it did it, aka plagiarism, it would be like Americans saying they invented pizza and everyone buying it, reffering to it as an "american" dish. Why do you have such a problem allowing ONE word to be changed to respect the existence of a people without voice? I guess its a thing only someone from a minority (Québécois are a minority) could understand. Anyway, can we move on fresh to the talk page? Each answer drain me away from actually starting it.

--166.62.226.25 22:23, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

See what other people think. I do sympathize with you, to a point (as an American, I want Canada to remain strong and a single country, because with all your imperfections, you are a good example for us in so many ways, but of course I feel you on your points about derogation and discrimination), but I really question how much of this is travel-related. I also think pizza wouldn't be a good analogy, because it comes from Italy, but we do very much talk about New York pizza, Chicago deep-dish pizza, etc., etc. I think better analogies would be all the regional foods in the U.S. that are best in their areas of origin but enjoyed throughout the country, such as barbecue. Also, think about this: how many Americans think French fries are really American, although they originate from Belgium? In effect, though, the way we eat them here, without mayonnaise but usually with ketchup, is non-Belgian. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:47, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Did you notice the photo of poutine on that page, with the caption "Poutine, Quebec's contribution to the fast food scene" and the description of poutine under "typical dishes" that begins "Poutine is a Québécois regional dish (also occasionally seen elsewhere in Canada and, increasingly, in the far northern tier of the United States)"? I think we're covered, really. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:05, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

EXACTLY. That was one of my argument. So, in the name of consistancy, I demand at once my culture be respected, the article itself does it once, proving me right, I shall extend it in the entire page, thank you. Objection overruled.

Also, the pizza was just an hypothetical "what if" exemple for the sake of an exemple for you to understand, not a reality. Origins are important.

Don't put me ever again with that maple-leaf empire I want nothing to do with. If it doesn't stay strong after our destiny gives us the state we rightfully deserve in the name of history, society and culture, that's its problem if we do all the work. Rejecting the right of people to rule themselves, rejecting their very existence as a distinct people and keeping them submitted in the name of petty geopolitics is called imperialism and its disgusting, thank you. Didn't you USA once celebrated heroes that fought for your distinct people's independence and later the right of people around the world to rule themselves during the World Wars and the 90s?

We're covered indeed, I'll do the change, reappropriate the dish of my people like the article already partially did. Goodnight. 166.62.226.25 00:07, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

You need consensus to do so, so I again suggest you start a thread on the fast food article's talk page, and the history of this country includes a civil war. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:42, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

Palace openings for Hari Raya Aidilfitri

Just wondering if you know if this is held in all Malaysian states. I know that the Sultan of Johor hosts does host one, but I'm not sure if you ever went to any hosted by the Sultan of Terengganu. The dog2 (talk) 02:36, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I didn't; I was busy celebrating with friends in my village, 25 miles away from Kuala Terengganu. I'd guess so, but I don't know. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:14, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Delete

@Ikan Kekek, please delete my subpages along with their corresponding talk pages listed here Category:Speedy deletion candidates 2006nishan178713^t@lk 08:56, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Done. Next time, please don't create talk pages only to request their deletion; it causes more strain on the hands of whomever deletes them.

Best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Fried Vietnamese spring rolls in America

I don't know if the places I went to are Vietnamese or Vietnamese-American restaurants, but some of them are located within Vietnamese neighbourhoods. But everytime I've ordered fried spring rolls, they are always wrapped in wheat flour sheets like the type used for Chinese spring rolls, and not rice paper. The only time I've had the authentic version made with rice paper in the U.S. is at more expensive Vietnamese restaurants. The dog2 (talk) 22:03, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

New York isn't really strong in Vietnamese restaurants, but I remember descriptions of all these kinds of things being rice- and not wheat-based (and not in expensive restaurants), and that's certainly how they seemed to me. But it seems like a really minor point in an article about Vietnamese cuisine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:30, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

OK, maybe it differs between different parts of the US then. I remember that Vietnamese food in New York wasn't particularly outstanding, at least compared to the ones I've had in Australia or California. Interesting that the Vietnamese deep fried spring rolls in New York are authentic then, because the ones in Chicago are as I described, using a Chinese-style wrapping instead, unless I go to a more expensive restaurant. Unfortunately, I didn't have spring rolls in California, but in the ones I had in Australia were authentic too. For the non-fried spring rolls, I've also noticed that in Australia, you have to roll them yourself, and they give you the rice paper, hot water and filling separately, while in Chicago, they're usually served to you already rolled. The dog2 (talk) 02:26, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

We often have to roll them. I don't have loads and loads of experience eating Vietnamese food here, because as I said, it is not very strong here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:47, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Mariupol

To my knowledge, Mariupol was under the control of the Donetsk People's Republic when it declared independence in 2014, and the Azov Battalion fought a bitter war with them to reclaim it for the Ukrainian government, and made Mariupol their main base. So they had already been heavily bombed by Ukrainian forces previously before the Russian invasion. An I have in fact seen videos of ethnic Russians from Mariupol cursing the Ukrainian military for using them as human shields. So I won't be surprised if in Mariupol, the ethnic Russians are loyal to Russia and the ethnic Ukrainians are loyal to Ukraine. And there was also a massacre of ethnic Russians by the Ukrainian military in a theatre in Odessa because those ethnic Russians were opposed to the Euromaidan Revolution, so I won't be surprised if the ethnic Russians in Odessa support Putin. And as you know, the post-Euromaidan Ukrainian government removed Russian as an official language, and that really pissed off the ethnic Russians in Ukraine. I've heard that the armed forces of the separatist regions in Eastern Ukraine are ethnic Russians who were in the Ukrainian military who defected after Euromaidan.

As for Zelensky, isn't his first language Ukrainian? The name "Volodymyr" is a very Ukrainian name; the Russian equivalent would be "Vladimir". The dog2 (talk) 20:30, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

I don't know what this refers to, but I suppose the thread on my user page may be relevant. I don't know much about the feelings in the "people's republics", but I don't think being ethnically Russian and having lived in one of them means you support the Russian war and like being "liberated" by Putin bombing your home city. –LPfi (talk) 21:08, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Zelensky's first language was Russian. And Kharkhiv is a Russian-speaking city. It doesn't matter what you wouldn't be "surprised" if people think; Wikivoyage articles are not places to idly speculate on these things, but we certainly know there are plenty of Russian-speakers fighting against the invasion today. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:08, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Over 12,000 ethnic Russians have been killed in the Donbass by Ukrainian military shelling over the past 8 years. And given that it is mainly the Azov Battalion has been fighting there, and those Azov guys are far-right Ukrainian ultranationalists who have a visceral hatred for ethnic Russians (not just Russian propaganda; this has actually been corroborated by Time magazine and Al Jazeera), those ethnic Russians in the Donbass might very well support Putin, but I don't have polling data to draw a conclusion. The dog2 (talk) 22:16, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Correct, you don't. And people in a city that's been razed to the ground by Russian shelling might have a "pox on both their houses" attitude but might not support the one who ordered the utter obliteration of their city. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:22, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

This discussion reinforces the deep concern that I have about Thedog 2's edits about politics and history.

First, let's start with the false assertion that Zelensky's first language is Ukrainian. Thedog 2 jumped to a conclusion based on the spelling of the man's name, instead of researching this, which is very easy to do in the age of Google. This is just the most recent example of Thedog 2 making something up in instead of looking something up.

Secondly, as Thedog 2 acknowledges, what they wrote in the article "might" be true, but they don't have any evidence.

This is not an isolated incident, but a pattern of behaviour. I think we have to consider whether Thedog 2's edits to political and historical information are so suspect that we should ask them to stop making such edits.

I know this is not the right place to raise this question, but I would like to hear the thoughts of Ikan Kekek and @LPfi: before I proceed on the talk page. Ground Zero (talk) 01:34, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Source that Zelenskyy's first language is not Ukrainian: w:Volodymyr Zelenskyy#Personal life – took four seconds to get that result. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:44, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

I would support that, Ground Zero. I think I've been very good in avoiding political speculations in articles. We all should. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:18, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

One has to be very careful when googling things up. I didn't read the sources for the Wikipedian statement, but judging from their titles they aren't about Zelenskyy's personal life (as aren't the sources in Early life), and I don't trust Wikipedia editors not to jump to conclusions. I suppose it's true, but the article could have got its current wording even if he was raised by Ukrainian speaking parents (their language isn't told), as he seemingly grew up in a Russian-speaking environment and perhaps attended school in Russian.

We cannot avoid political themes entirely in Understand and Respect sections, but I agree that The dog2 should be more careful not to jump to conclusions, and abstain from writing things based on possibly biased sources, or based on impressions rather than actual knowledge. (I don't know whether there have been problematic edits recently; asking things on talk pages should be allowed, although "no reason to get into this in the article" is a valid answer.)

–LPfi (talk) 09:32, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Existential wiki question

Hi Ikan Kekek,

I wasn't sure who else to ask. I just tried to make a page for the public campground I'm staying at. It seemed like it was in line with "be bold" and helping people figure things out about places they might want to go. But then someone deleted it and all it said was something like "campground fail" but I didn't see anything in whatever pages I read about how to be a wikivoyage editor. So I tried asking on that user's talk page where I could find the relevant guideline and a bot wouldn't let me ask the question.

I've bumped into this on Wikipedia as well in the past. I know media wikis are supposed to be friendly but I have experienced a really really high barrier to entry. I consider myself a good community member who, y'know, plays well with others and is an active and contibuting member of society. I really appreciated your constructive explanation when you deleted my contribution.

So I have a few requests, if you're willing: 1. I was wondering if you could pass a message along to the person that deleted the Sweetwater Summit Campground page that it would be more useful to explain what's going on than to just throw away my efforts with two cryptic words? If you think it could help others in the future. 2. Any chance you know what "campground fail" means? Maybe there's a page with a guideline somewhere I could read? 3. Any thoughts on the high barrier to entry for Wikipedia and apparently Wikivoyage?

All the best, off to go for an evening hike in the beautiful trails around this campground here. —The preceding comment was added by 172.58.22.179 (talk • contribs)

I'm sorry that happened to you. The relevant guideline is Wikivoyage:What is an article. Campgrounds don't get their own articles but are valuable to list in the article for the destination where they are sited, or failing that, the one for the nearest town. They would be a "sleep" listing. See Wikivoyage:Listings. Let me know if there's any other way I can help you.

All the best,

Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:44, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

By the way, though, you misread the deletion notice, which was "campgrounds fail wv:wiaa". That's a link to What is an article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:46, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

to 172.58.22.179, I've added a listing to Sweetwater Summit Campground in San Diego/Mid-City where the campground belongs. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:04, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

oops. just realised that I added the listing in the wrong article. I self-reverted my edit. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:00, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. This is all very helpful. 172.58.19.12 17:23, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

We try. We were all new users once. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:46, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

existential wiki answer

it has been a very long time since drinks, so to speak, more parched than a dead dingo in the simpson desert, I think I am back Id rather be a drinker in the vicinity of the strand bookstore, however not likely again this lifetime... JarrahTree (talk) 14:13, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

How are you doing? I am now officially a COVID survivor. I got sick 2 Sundays ago, finally tested negative yesterday and now feel like I have a bad cold. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Apols for chiming in, but great to hear that you've tested negative. Hope you recover from your cold soon. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:38, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. I think the symptoms are aftereffects from COVID, not a new illness. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:50, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Yeah when I recovered from Covid, I still had coughing symptoms for about three weeks. It was more of a concern when I went to Queensland where they had just opened up their borders and "living with Covid" was a new thing for them so every time I coughed I got strange looks (which is something that doesn't happen here down south). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

I'll continue wearing my mask, which should make people less worried about any time I might cough. How are you doing now? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:06, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. I'm doing fine as it's almost been a month since I contracted Covid, but case numbers are quite high out here that nearly everyone that I know of has had Covid in the past three months. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:24, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm glad you're fully recovered, but the other part sucks. People are pretending that the pandemic is over and that COVID is just the cold. It's not. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:37, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree. When I was in Brisbane two weeks ago, there were constant news reports about a "hidden pandemic" as no-one really wanted to test just before the Easter long weekend. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:52, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

I have been used to trusting our authorities, but restrictions are away and they say "the risk of getting seriously ill [in COVID-19] has never been this low", which is true on average for those who get ill (thanks to also vaccinated people getting the omicron), but the incidence has never been higher, so the death toll hasn't decreased. Few vaccinated healthy people get seriously ill, but I am not too inclined to take my chances. Good to hear that you are well. –LPfi (talk) 10:23, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

I'm glad he's well; I am not well yet. I feel like I have a cold now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:21, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

OK, sorry. I hope you'll be well too soon. –LPfi (talk) 18:34, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Much or many

Here you changed "much" to "many". I understand that you cannot say "much batteries", but I doubt the limitation is on the number. Can you find a good way to express that? "How much battery" does not sound right. Do we have to resort to something convoluted like "limit on maximum combined weight of your lithium batteries"? –LPfi (talk) 12:03, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Are lithium batteries not in one standard weight? If not, then I would suggest "their big cousins, commercial aviation, usually have a pretty low weight limit for lithium ion batteries." Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:44, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

The ones you use in your torch are different from the one in your mobile phone or those in a Tesla. I don't know what kind they use in drones, but I think they might be custom made. (I assume this is about Li-ion batteries, not "lithium-metal" ones) –LPfi (talk) 09:00, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

So let's go with weight limit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:26, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

153.107.26.53

re Special:Diff/4454642: not Brendan, but it's our other Australian LTA (Basa Pulu Kokos) based on editing habits. Anyway, thanks for the revert :-) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:11, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Sure thing. Yeah, I can see that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:59, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Cloistered communities

To my knowledge, monasteries are for monks, and convents are for nuns. So women cannot visit cloistered monks, while men cannot visit cloistered nuns unless they are priests who are there to conduct specific rites. The dog2 (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

But there are a lot of cloisters that can be visited. To take one example, the Abbey of Monte Oliveto in Chiusure has great art in its cloister and welcomes respectful tourism as well as visiting pilgrims of both sexes. So be careful how you phrase things. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:53, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Regional American accents

Just wondering, where can you still hear these accents? I never heard the New York accent when I was living in New York (except when I hear Bernie Sanders speaking on TV), and now in Chicago, I never hear the Chicago accent. White people just speak with a general American accent similar to what you hear in the news. Likewise, I never heard a Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore or New Orleans accent whenever I visited those cities. And even when I went to Acadiana, I did not hear the Cajun accent in downtown Lafayette; the people there just spoke with a general American accent. The only time I heard the Cajun accent was when I went to an out-of-the-way suburban mom and pop grocery store that someone on Tripadvisor recommended for boudin and cracklin'. But otherwise, I have to go onto YouTube if I want to hear those accents. The dog2 (talk) 14:52, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

I actually ran this by my girlfriend. We both agree that there's less isolation than there used to be, but we think you're exaggerating about the demise of these accents. I've certainly heard very distinct Southern accents in trips to the Carolinas, and the Pittsburgh accent, while not drastically different from some New York accents, is definitely distinct. Likewise, it's not at all uncommon to hear people in the Boston area "pahk the cah", and I definitely noticed a Hawaiian accent when I visited. Etc. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:13, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

So where in New York City would you recommend people to go to if they want to hear the New York accent, just like how Bernie Sanders speaks? And yes, it's certainly true that the Southern accents still persist among the younger generation to some degree. When I went to that grocery store in suburban Lafayatte, I certainly heard the young women working there speaking with a very strong Cajun accent. But in downtown Lafayette, all I heard was the general American accent. And there was a young woman from Alabama who joined the neuroscience PhD programme at my university, and you can hear a very thick Southern accent when she gives her talks. But that's the exception rather than the rule. I have not been to Alabama, but most Alabamans that I have met in Chicago speak with a general American accent, and completely lack the drawl. I've also met numerous Texans, and they also speak with a general American accents, and do not have the twang at all. The dog2 (talk) 17:29, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Many of the Texans I've known have a very distinct accent. In terms of the New York accent, I'd actually suggest you talk to more Long Islanders to hear strong versions of the accent. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:31, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Driving in Malaysia

I wonder if you think you would be up to the task of creating such an article. Your Malay is probably better than mine, so I guess you could help to translate some road signs. I only know some simple expressions like "Awas" (Caution) or "berhenti" (stop). Unfortunately, I never got the chance to drive in Malaysia, but my family would make road trips to Malaysia back when I was a kid, so I guess I have some familiarity with road conditions in Malaysia. For instance, I have noticed that Malaysian drivers tend not to use their signals when changing lanes. And I also noticed that while there is a good expressway network along the West Coast if you want to drive from Singapore up to Penang, the East Coast doesn't have that. I've only made it as far up the East Coast as Mersing, but the road there is just a regular country road, so it would probably take a while to make up up to Kuantan, Kuala Terengganu or Kota Bharu if you are starting from Singapore. The dog2 (talk) 20:36, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, there is the E8 lebuhraya, but it's inland. But I remember from 2003 that the East Coast highway itself was much improved compared to the 1-lane-each-way though nicely blacktopped road that was there in the 70s; I believe it was 2 lanes each way. I'm not a driver, though. :-) In addition to "Awas", add "Berhaya," as in "Awas! Berhaya!" Drivers in Malaysia seemed better in 2003 than they had been from 1975-77, for whatever that's worth. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:13, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Revert

You reverted my change to Valle del Cauca's banner because:

Your banner substitution for Cali was so obvious I marked it patrolled, but the normal procedure is to propose to replace a banner and see if you get a consensus behind the suggestion. Please start a thread on this article's talk page.Undo revision 4476012 by Travelwriter1000

But this discussion already took place, and you supported the change. Travelwriter1000 (talk) 15:06, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Sorry. Only one comment isn't really a consensus, but since no-one else was interested enough to comment, the change should be made. I'll make the change. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:57, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't love the skyline view, though. I think it's improvable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:59, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

I agree (it's not one of mine), but it's better than having the crummy one at both Valle del Cauca and Buga. Travelwriter1000 (talk) 15:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Yeah. If nothing else, we don't want the same banner used in two articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:48, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

communication channel to coordinate

What is the best communication channel to coordinate with other Wikivoyage editors across language editions? Is there an active telegram or facebook group, IRC or other types of chat? --Zblace (talk) 18:00, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikivoyage Interlingual Lounge, but it would be a good idea to supplement that with announcements on the Travellers' pub and equivalents on other Wikivoyage language versions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:59, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you...Trying both. --Zblace (talk) 20:01, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Seremban

Jika anda tidak berpuas hati dengan gambar, silalah ganti dengan gambar asal, bukan main revert je. ade je informasi lain upadte pun kena revert juga. *angys* (talk) 21:55, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

OK. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:12, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Habis-lah. Ada semua? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:15, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Regarding Special:Diff/4495642

Regarding your message

Why couldn't you close this yourself? It is not a bad practice for any admin to close a nom.

Because dealing with admin nominations stuff is usually done by bureaucrats, not other admins (unless they're self-closing a nom. they started). That's why left the closing bit alone. Hope that clarifies why. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:42, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

There are many examples in Wikivoyage:User rights nominations/Archives of admins who are not bureaucrats closing admin nominations. I don't see a good reason why only bureaucrats should close such noms, though I see that was added at Wikivoyage:User rights nominations at some point. I'll start a talk page thread about it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:29, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

New bureaucrat inactivity policy

You are receiving this message because you are a bureaucrat on this wiki. Following a successful change in the inactivity policy, the bureaucrat policy has now been updated. Bureaucrats may now have their privileges removed if they have not: Made one edit Made one admin or bureaucrat action over a 12-month period. Bureaucrats who do not meet these requirements will be notified well in advance on their talk pages. Thank you.

--SHB2000 (talk) 06:52, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Apologies for this. I forgot that you were participating on Wikivoyage talk:Bureaucrats#Inactivity policy thread but I didn't have that in mind when I sent out the mass message. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:26, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Not a problem. It read like a threat, but I knew it couldn't have been intended for me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:45, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Yep, I sent it to everyone who was on Special:ListUsers/bureaucrat using Special:MassMessage so definitely not only for you ;-). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:51, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Special:Diff/4516408 on Northampton (England)

Regarding that edit, British English (and Australian, New Zealand, Indian and so on. English) does not usually put a period after St, Mt, Rd and so on so it would be St Gilles. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:11, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Now, about the capes in Delaware Bay... Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:22, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Responded to that on my talk. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 01:53, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

My apologies

Hi Ikan, I apologise if my comments have caused any offense on Talk:Clothes#A proposal to ban religious quotes.. It was not my intent to offend you or anyone. I was quite frustrated how everyone completely ignored my point of view, plus the irrational sockpuppet allegations, but I shouldn't have let it loose. Judaism wasn't on my mind, but the quote still does come out as proselytising to me, keeping in mind that there is no clear cut line between what's proselytising and what's not; it can be interpreted differently by person. Either way, I'll drop the stick, and I apologise again if I've caused any offense. Regards, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:11, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Appreciated, but do keep in mind that Jews are not trying to convert you, so there is indeed a clear line as regards Jews vis-a-vis non-Jews. I'm a secular Jew who practices to a very limited extent, but that doesn't cause me to dis the Torah as part of my heritage. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:13, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

@SHB2000: Also, I was not disregarding your opinion. We just happen to disagree on what constitutes proselytizing. For me, merely quoting a passage from some holy book does not in and of itself mean that you are trying to promote that religion, but of course, you're free to disagree with me on that. The dog2 (talk) 22:58, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Japan

Hey there... to answer your question, you're probably right, however once more details become available I think they should be put into the Get In box. For example, whether or not there will be any vaccine requirements, as the Prime Minister did not mention it in his speech. I'm sure MOFA will put out an update very soon. JRHorse (talk) 22:25, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

OK, sure, whatever is of most help to travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:11, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Admin permissions

I've not been editing that much on Wikivoyage recently, so I don't think there is any need for me to keep the admin rights. So could you remove them and the int admin as well. Thanks. -- WOSlinker (talk) 17:46, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

@WOSlinker: I'm not Ikan here, but thank you for your service. We'll truly miss your technical updates :-(. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:03, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I strongly second this. Please feel welcome to request the rights back any time you decide you'd like to start using them again, and stay well! Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:02, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

WOSlinker, should I also remove your template editor rights, or would you like to keep those? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:04, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I'd like to keep that. I think I might still have a use for it as I may still want to update some protected templates occasionally. Thanks. -- WOSlinker (talk) 07:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:22, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

Standard revision deletion request

Hi, could you please standard revision delete 5 revisions to your user page. Thanks. Tailsultimatefan3891 (t | c | ca) 01:38, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

If you're spending time looking at the history of my user page, why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:49, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm guessing because Tailsultimatefan3891 might've found Special:Diff/3471557 inappropriate? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:52, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

But why would they be looking at this history? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:58, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Maybe a m:Wikiarchaeologist? (I certainly fall into that category) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:05, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Those revisions are inappropriate or degrading. You may have a standard revision delete to hide those revisions. Tailsultimatefan3891 (t | c | ca) 12:00, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Who else is looking at them? Concentrate on creating content. You are here to improve a travel guide, aren't you? Think about why you're here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:41, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Best wishes

I just read Special:Diff/4550785; I hope COVID hasn't hit you that hard. COVID does really suck sometimes and the last time I had it (mid-August), it really did feel miserable at times, but keep in mind that there will be better days coming. Either way, I hope you have a speedy recovery! --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 03:15, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

A speedy and full recovery to both of you. Ground Zero (talk) 07:42, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

@Ground Zero: Not me – I've mostly recovered from it as it's been 2 months, but I thank my immune system for that ;-) --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:54, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

SHB: I meant IK and girlfriend, but I wasn't clear. Ground Zero (talk) 08:59, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Indenting sucks... SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:24, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

So far, this is much milder than last time. Thanks very much for your good wishes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:47, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

My girlfriend is much better and has performed twice this past week. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:10, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Revert

Hey I am new to editing on this site, why was the link to english on Fuerteventura reverted? I appreciate any feedback given. I sell eggs (talk) 23:58, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, welcome! The reason is that since anyone reading this site knows English and English language varieties is only about the differences between some dialects of English, there is no good reason to link the name of the language to anything. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:05, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

@I sell eggs: Wikivoyage:Internal links provides more information on how we handle links in Wikivoyage. I hope it helps. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 01:13, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Allowing Brendan's content to stay

Why do you think it's okay to leave Brendan's content up and only changing one word? (I don't mind having the listing, but I object to the wording, which was probably stolen from somewhere). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:23, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I take your point. I'm pretty tired, but I can try editing some. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:31, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Much appreciated; any wording that doesn't look near-identical should be fine, IMO. If only we could find a way to prevent Brendan spamming every single country/region article with Christmas content... SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:35, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I know. It's really annoying as Hell, especially when he keeps adding stuff about Christmas in, like, Kuwait, and it happens like clockwork every year. However, in this case, the marker should be listed. I think you'll be satisfied with my phrasing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:38, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Thx; LGTM :-). Regarding Brendan, I think the only way to deal with this is to routinely range block the /64 range he uses (making sure they geolocate to Brisbane or the Sunshine Coast), but he's managed to find a way out of it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:56, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Does he get around the abuse filters? Otherwise we could use them instead of blocking the ranges. –LPfi (talk) 10:28, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I thought we discussed this last year and chose not to use the filters. IIRC, we never implemented such because an innocent IP might want to add their town's local Christmas fair or the alike. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 10:34, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Of course, we cannot disallow all Christmas-themed editing, even from those locations. I though we could combine the theme with something clever. But if IPv6-/64 ranges are the best we can do, then the risk of the next one to use that range trying to edit Wikivoyage is minimal – but do we actually catch his next edit by those range blocks? Otherwise just reverting is equally effective, with a 1-hr block the times we could interrupt a series. –LPfi (talk) 11:51, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Word for "simhall"

From Talk:Sex segregation: "What you're calling swimming baths would presumably be either pools or perhaps beaches. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:29, 22 November 2022 (UTC)"

"Swimming bath" was the translation of "simhall" given by my dead-wood dictionary. Wiktionary says "swimming pool (indoor facility for swimming)". The thing I'm searching a word for is a building containing at least a swimming pool, changing rooms, showers and sauna, often several pools of different kinds, such as one with diving platforms, one for children and one with cold water, in addition to the main one(s). Neither dictionary gives that meaning for "swimming pool". Are these facilities uncommon in Anglophone countries? –LPfi (talk) 08:51, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

I can't speak for all Anglophone countries, but that doesn't sound like anything that's common in the U.S. The closest thing I can think of here would be a spa, but I actually don't know what the place you describe would be called. It's not like the Turkish baths in Budapest, which don't have diving boards or saunas that I can remember. I think what you're describing is a Nordic thing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:04, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

That would explain the lack of word to describe it. Here these facilities are ubiquitous in cities, usually municipal and specifically for swimming, with other activities as supplements. Private "simhall" are rare. The private counterparts instead concentrate on wellness (spas) or fun (water parks), often combined. There is some cross-breeding, such as many "simhall" containing gyms and many spas having also a pool for regular (back-and-forth) swimming in cool water.

With thousands of lakes and extensive archipelagos, swimming has been a big thing, once we got wealthy enough to have time for such "useless" activities (archipelago dwellers learnt to swim only recently – you'd keep to your boat, and keep children away from the shore). Learning to swim has been on the curriculum in primary schools in Finland more or less during my and your lifetime, as a sport and to keep down drownings; my parents and their friends did swim, but many of their age did not. With our short summers, schools and athletes needed indoor facilities, many built in the 1970s. I assume the developments have been similar in Sweden and Norway.

–LPfi (talk) 09:52, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Holocaust remembrance

Just to be clear, I know for a FACT that the Holocaust happened and that six million Jews (and millions of nonJews) died. I wasn't downplaying that. But the Holocaust wasn't the largest genocide in history. Mao's China gets that unfortunate honor.

-Danyl Schiff Danyl Schiff (talk) 22:52, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

That's a respectable point of view. I believe Stalin murdered more people, but most of that killing and most of Mao's is usually not considered a genocide. And the main point is that I think we should go by Wikipedia's table on the death tolls in different genocides but without mentioning which genocide was of the largest number of people and not get into academic disputes on a travel guide. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:55, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Alright then. Danyl Schiff (talk) 14:32, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Glad we're cool, and thanks for your contributions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Banner photo

Hello, please don't replace the photo of the special banner for the Ngawi town wikivoyage. Because the photo really describes the characteristics of tourism in the Ngawi city area. In your opinion, is there something wrong with the photo of the Van den Bosch fortress? 140.213.167.224 22:51, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes. The problem was that the banner was deleted for copyright violation. Isn't this the same image that was taken from a website that has no Creative Commons Copyleft notice on it and has several photos that have specific copyrights on them? We can't steal copyrighted images and use them here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:09, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

It looks like I was wrong about this image. I have reverted my deletion of it from the article. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:52, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Happy holidays!

Happy holidays, Ikan Kekek! Hello Ikan Kekek, have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! It has been a pleasure to have you as a fellow Wikivoyager this year. Wherever you are, enjoy the festive season and stay warm (if you're north of the Tropic of Cancer)! Your help in maintaining, improving and expanding Wikivoyage will always be appreciated. Greetings from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. --SHB2000 on 11:48, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you! It's 11 Fahrenheit, about -12 Celsius in New York now. I'll bundle up tonight when I go to Brooklyn to play a midnight mass! Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:29, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Enjoy your midnight mass in 7 hours (as of writing this)! If I may ask, what instrument will you be playing? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 21:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm playing flute. It's a trio - flute, violin and cello. I hope the heat is good in the church! We start our prelude at 10:30 and expect to be done around 1:15 AM. I've played a couple of midnight masses that really did start at midnight, and we were done around 2:45. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Nice :-). I once went to a midnight mass a few years back (pre-COVID) as a friend was playing the violin, and I have to say, I'm impressed by the level of coordination that goes into these. Good luck for tonight! --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:17, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! It was fun. It was not a trio. There were two violinists, one violist, one cellist, two trumpet players, a small but excellent chorus, a beautiful soprano soloist in one song, and most importantly, an organist. I got home at 2:47 AM. I'm glad I don't have to wake up early and play again in the morning, like organists and the violinist who was sitting next to me do. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:07, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with Wikivoyage, but...

I was editing b:en:Wikijunior:Asia/Malaysia last night and was shocked to find out that b:en:Wikijunior:Asia/Malaysia#What are some important sites? only listed George Town and Malacca/Melaka as the country's most important sites. I've since expanded this to include Gunung Mulu National Park in Sarawak, Batu Caves and the Petronas Towers in KL, but surely there ought to be more important sites than the five now listed. In particular, are there any sites on the East Coast that you think are worth a mention? On one hand, it's supposed to be for children and the East Coast doesn't have many interesting sites that the average 10-year-old, per se, would find extremely fascinating, apart from maybe Pulau Redang and maybe National Park. What say you? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 04:10, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

I haven't been to Malaysia since 2003, but I remember most of the East Coast as being dotted with pretty villages with coconut trees. Kenyir Lake in Ulu Terengganu has beautiful views, and unless things have changed, you can pay someone to paddle you around it. I liked Kota Bharu when I was a child, but I have no idea how another child today would react to a much larger Kota Bharu. The Jungle Highway, or whatever it's called, that connects Kelantan and Perak, was pretty when I took a bus across it in 2003. In terms of islands, there are several other ones, including Tioman (the largest on the East Coast, which I haven't been to) and Kapas. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:06, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions – I'll implement them soon. Should others like Mount Kinabalu in Borneo also be added?

In saying that, I'm glad that these atlas-like pages exist for the geography buffs of Generation Alpha. I'm fortunate that my parents were willing to buy me atlases when I was a 10-year-old about a decade ago (and also pass down atlases they had as a child in the 1970s which I still have), but it's great that there's now free kid-friendly online information without buy anything. I sometimes wished that these were more publically known about, because everyone who I've talked to IRL has never heard of Wikibooks :-(. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:48, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

I've added them all but the Jungle Highway – Google Maps is giving me two routes (neither of which are named Jungle Hwy), one via Highways 4 and 76 passing Gerik and the other via Highways 8 (not the E8 lebuhraya) and 185 passing Gua Musang. Do you remember which route you exactly took? Otherwise, the article is looking much more like a page from an atlas now :-). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:57, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

I took the one via Gerik. I've never seen Gua Musang. I would add Kinabalu, but I've never been to Borneo. There are probably various interesting places there. I remember hearing that people take river trips up the Rejang in Sarawak, and Tawau has a harbor, etc. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:01, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Added those two. Sorry to bother you a lot with non-Wikivoyage related matters, but is it true that by law, all Malays are Muslim (as stated in the "[w]hat is the most common religion in Malaysia?" section above)? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:12, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, it is true. All Malays are by definition in the Malaysian constitution Muslims, as I remember, but of course not all Malaysian Muslims are Malay. Nevertheless, a traditional Malay expression for conversion to Islam is "masuk Melayu" (literally "enter Malay"), because many converts, or at least their children, are more or less accepted as Malays if they speak Malay and live in a Malay community. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:48, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

That makes sense. So that means Malaysia's Chinese and Indian communities can still practice whatever faith they choose to? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:13, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. Orang Asli are of different religions, too. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:49, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Interesting; I'm learning so much today (and yesterday). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 20:35, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ That's provided they aren't already Muslims. The Chinese and Indians who are already Muslims are not allowed to convert out of Islam, because that constitutes the crime of apostasy. Most Malaysian Indians are Hindu, but there is quite a large Indian Muslim community too. Some things like teh tarik, nasi kandar and roti canai are associated with the Indian Muslims. In Singapore, the vast majority of Malays are Muslims, but unlike in Malaysia, there is no law requiring them to be Muslims, and I actually had a Malay Christian neighbour when I was really young, but unfortunately, we've lost touch. The dog2 (talk) 00:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that's right. It is illegal to convert out of Islam or to practice Ahmadiyyah or Shiism in Malaysia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:40, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

This is not mentioned in Malaysia#Stay safe, I suppose it should be added. Few would convert out of Islam during their stay, but if practising one's religion (in public) is a criminal offence, people should be warned. –LPfi (talk) 15:42, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

To be clear, I'm not sure practicing Shiism is officially illegal, but I understand that it is suppressed. Yes, proselytizing other religions to Muslims or converting out of Islam is illegal in Malaysia. I doubt there would be a greater punishment for illegal proselytizing than expulsion, but Malaysians who convert out of Islam would have problems. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:59, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

Interesting. So looks like the irony is that Shia in Malaysia have to travel to Muslim-minority Singapore to practise their religion. There is only one Shia mosque in Singapore though, since the vast majority of Singaporean Muslims are Sunnis. But what's different from Malaysia I guess was that in Singapore, MUIS (Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura, the governing body for Islam in Singapore) was jointly established by the Sunni and Shia communities. The dog2 (talk) 22:08, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

That's interesting and cool. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:47, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

I thought a Shia could go to a Sunni mosque and participate in the Friday prayer with nobody noticing and them not violating their faith. How much do the differences show? Obviously (with the info above) a Shia shouldn't be discussing theology when visiting the mosque, but avoiding such discussions, would they commit a crime and risk trial by practising their faith in Malaysia? Would the fact that you are Shia (or Ahmadiyya) make your praying illegal? Are there details in clothing that would reveal them being Shia? Would carrying such symbols be a crime? –LPfi (talk) 10:30, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Normally, any Muslim could worship at a mosque, but it matters what you proclaim yourself to be. See this short note about an instance of persecution of Ahmadis in Selangor. The Wikipedia article about Islam in Malaysia also presents shocking information about the persecution of Shiahs in Malaysia, and you'll see that some of it is recent. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:48, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't think you could tell who was a Sunni, Shiah or Ahmadi in Malaysia based on what they are wearing, but I didn't know anyone in Malaysia who said they were Shiite or Ahmadi. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:50, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank You

Thank you for clarifying things.

Vital Articles Grammar (talk) 23:07, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Sure thing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:13, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Bogotá

Thank you for your help with the hotel listing for the Bogota article Ikak Kekek. I truly appreciate it! So just to clarify for future references should I just include a hotels amenities, instead of saying a modern hotel or luxury hotel with this and that? I really didn't mean to "toat", so thank you for the help correcting it, I just wanted to add more hotels to the short list... 74.96.153.48 17:46, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

See Wikivoyage:Don't tout, especially the bullet "Avoid using flowery, vague terms" (and also Rating systems: Colombia#Sleep says nothing about what "five stars" means). I think whether a hotel is modern or luxury is relevant, but it is too easy to use those words for touting a hotel that doesn't live up to such expectations. "World-class" says nothing to me: it might suggest that it's among the world's best hotels, but I doubt the hotel is in the top-10 or even top-1000; I assume it just means "good in the eyes of the owners". A "Regulars of the Raffles will feel at home" would say more, if that's true – and would indeed be livelier. "Neoclassical building" is relevant if it's true, but "Neo-clasical style building" sounds as it might just be a failed try at the style. Pet-friendly is relevant, but "Pets welcome." says as much – unless the friendliness means that the staff welcome also the dog, have water ready for it and pet it while you do your paperwork, if so, tell that! "Minutes away" is also a standard touting phrase: 60 minutes with a motorbike is also "minutes away".

I don't know whether the examples are relevant for you, they were from an IP that edited a district of the city recently. I hope they give some clarification on what we want, if the language at the linked guidelines isn't enough.

–LPfi (talk) 18:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Yes, and thanks to LPfi for these examples. I think the real issues were saying it was "conveniently located" and then mentioning a bunch of attractions. Hotels typically do that, but we don't do that on Wikivoyage. The Wikivoyage:Don't tout and Wikivoyage:Listings pages will give you useful guides to what should be in listings. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:53, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Wrong discussion page link in article

Hi Ikan, I'm sorry to bother you, but you seem to be the most proactive knowledgable user on this site. I encountered a problem today that I don't know how to fix. While reviewing the content for the Mexican state of Durango (https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Durango_(state)), I thought of something I wanted to bring up to the community, so I clicked the "Discussion" tab for the page. Unfortunately, it brought up the discussion page for the town of Durango, Colorado. Is this something I could fix, or something I need admin help with? Thank you for any insight you can provide. Mrkstvns (talk) 17:17, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I think any autoconfirmed user could create a disambiguation page for Durango and make the Mexican state the default for the name. Look at London for a model of a "see also" that goes to a disambiguation. I totally agree that the Mexican state is the obvious default for Durango, not the city in Colorado. If you're not able to do the required edits, I or some other admin who's not currently traveling should be able to help. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:08, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@Mrkstvns: I removed the redirects for the talk page of Durango (state) and that of the disambiguation page (Durango). They were created by oversights when moving the article on Durango of Colorado. Now you should be able to easily create the proper talk page. I also edited the disambiguation page not to have the Colorado town first. (You would have been able to follow the small-print link in the top of the article and just edit away the redirect, but the redirect pages should never have been created, so better this way.) –LPfi (talk) 07:31, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I find redirects to be a little tricky, so appreciate the help. Cheersǃ Mrkstvns (talk) 16:27, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, thanks to LPfi. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:37, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Uhh...

You and I are on good terms, so I'm gonna put this bluntly: GET THAT PHOTO OFF THE PHOENIX ARTICLE! I TRIED TO EDIT THE ARTICLE EARLIER (I think around 7:30) AND THERE'S KIDDIE SMUT ON IT!! I didn't even try to remove the picture, as it's so morally abhorrent that I couldn't bear to look at it long enough to remove it. So I left it how it was, knowing an admin would eventually clean it up. I literally wanted to throw up upon seeing it, and I mean literally in the proper sense of that word. Maybe you or someone else has already gotten to it, but if you haven't, I INSIST YOU GET TO IT.

Your friend,

Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 04:22, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

That must have been in the edit I already rolled back. I will hide the edit from the history. That user has already been blocked permanently. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:25, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, and תודה (which also means thank you). Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 04:43, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I can read a bit of Hebrew. :-) I'm sorry you saw the image. I rolled it back without looking at it after I deleted the user's user page and blocked them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:46, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, why do we even keep pedoscums alive? I researched "Cary Jay Smith", and he's a SICK individual. I hesitate to even call him sick, as sick people at least want to change their position, even if that position is being a former molester. He calls himself Mr. Rape Torture Kill, or Mr. RTK. He has been quoted as saying that if you don't cut off his *noodle* and hands, he'll rape again. Yet they released this scum anyway because his hearing got cancelled for COVID. Here's an article about him: https://abc7.com/cary-jay-smith-sex-offender-orange-county-mr-rape-torture-kill/11542125/. Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 04:54, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I'll abstain from reading. His hearing got cancelled or did it get postponed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:56, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Cancelled entirely. Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 04:58, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

You know, I've been wanting to apply for mod status for a while now. Maybe this could be my special niche: removing chomo sh*t from the site. Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 04:59, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I realize I'm not great at following every "format rule," but if there's one thing I'm good at, it's recognizing and removing CP. Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 05:00, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Anyone can nominate themselves, but I think some admins probably don't know you yet. I'd suggest participating more in discussions on policy and districting and such if those kinds of things interest you. We want admins to show they understand Wikivoyage policies, guidelines and how the site works. Some great users aren't interested in that kind of "under the hood" stuff and are just great content providers. In terms of this guy, I hope his stuff wasn't up long but I dealt with it right away when I looked at the site. I didn't have to confirm what the image looked like to know that it was totally inappropriate and that the guy had to be blocked right away. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Having seen the image, I can confirm it was a young boy wearing a nappy, possibly 12 or 13. No nudity, thank goodness, but I wouldn't want my sons depicted like that. Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 05:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

To say the least. Dat Boy Danyl Schiff (talk) 05:14, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

No, that's disgusting, and I saw that user's edit summary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi Ikan Kekek, just checking, have you made a report to the WMF Legal Team about this? If you haven't, no worries, but I will do so per our Wikivoyage:Child protection policy. I haven't seen the image on Phoenix and am not sure where the Californian or U.S. law would stand on it, but given the checkuser result has shown this individual has posted child abuse content to WV since at least November last year (trigger warning), our lawyers may be interested in ensuring this doesn't happen again.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:42, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I wasn't sure how to contact them. The image itself (which I saw on Commons) doesn't show any nudity, so I don't think it's likely to itself be criminal, but WMF Legal might want to be on the lookout for the guy, anyway. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:34, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Urbex in NYC

To my knowledge, there are still some abandoned infrastructure in New York City, such as the old streetcar depot at the Queensboro Bridge, and a few abandoned subway stations like City Hall. And given that NYC was one of America's great industrial cities, I'd imagine there must be abandoned factories scattered around the city just like what you get in Chicago, although I would admit that many of the abandoned factories in Chicago have been repurposed, and those that have not will probably be repurposed in the not too distant future. The dog2 (talk) 15:02, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

You can't do urbex in the subway tunnels. I don't know anything about the abandoned streetcar depot, but if you do, mention it. There's no point in mentioning that you can do urbex in x and y city and then give the reader no specifics. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:04, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Next time you go to the Queensboro Bridge, have a look from the Manhattan side and you will see a kiosk there. That used to be the entrance to the streetcar depot, but the stairway has been sealed off with concrete, so you can no longer see it. There is also another abandoned underground streetcar depot at the Manhattan side of the Williamsburg Bridge, and there were in fact plans to convert it to an underground park called the Lowline, but those plans have stalled due to a lack of funding. The dog2 (talk) 23:44, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

If you get into it, how is that urbex? Urbex is short for "urban exploration." Do you know where below the Williamsburg Bridge? I've walked in that area a lot. My point is, though, in case it isn't clear enough: it is not useful to the reader to mention cities without providing any details about what urbex there is to do there, especially when the city guides don't mention it, either. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:18, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Jews in Singapore

Since you're Jewish, I thought you might be interested in watching this documentary: . The Jewish community in Singapore is tiny, but they've made some significant contributions; the first legal aid fund in Singapore was founded by a Jew called Harry Elias for instance. The dog2 (talk) 01:43, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I'm generally aware of the history of the Singaporean Jewish community, and my father went to one of their shuls on some High Holy Day back in the 70s. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:44, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Applause in a church concert

To answer your question, I went to a performance of Bach's St Matthew's Passion at a Lutheran church for Lent, and the pastor told us not to applaud at the end of part one, when they headed into a break, but instead told us to wait until the entire performance was completed before applauding. I guess you could say it was semi-liturgical, given that the pastor led prayers before the beginning of the performance. In this particular case the performance was arranged by the church, though there are also cases where secular ensembles rent church premises to put on classical music concerts, so I guess it depends on which case it is. The dog2 (talk) 18:02, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

I have played loads and loads of concerts at churches and been to loads more, and if they want the audience not to applaud, they will tell you, just as this pastor did. If they don't tell you not to applaud and it's non-liturgical, you applaud. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:04, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

The student choir where I sung gives concerts also in churches, with two yearly big ones in the cathedral at the beginning of Advent. It has been more or less consistent in these concerts not to have applause between pieces, and I think that's the common tradition also with most other church concerts here in Lutheran Finland. The choir's church concerts have mostly sacral repertoires, but they are arranged by the choir(s) and have no prayers, nor pastors' welcoming words. Usually there was no reminder of this tradition. –LPfi (talk) 20:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

OK, so I guess this varies from place to place. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:20, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Special:Diff/4644547 on Riau Malay phrasebook

I think what was being conveyed there by "[a]s the second-largest multilingual country after Papua New Guinea", was PNG having more languages spoken than Indonesia (which is true – over 800 languages are spoken in Papua New Guinea!), not the fact that it's larger than Indonesia, both in terms of size and population.

Anyway, Happy Easter – I hope your Good Friday mass yesterday went well :-).

--SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:00, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. It was good to do. It was actually my first time playing a Good Friday mass, and it was a very different experience from playing celebratory masses on Christmas or Easter. Happy Easter to you! I get what you're saying about PNG vs. Indonesia, but it was not clearly stated. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:41, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, that statement was unclear at best. I'm glad to hear your Good Friday mass went well! SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:26, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Renaming of Allahabad

You reverted my edit. Please have a look at this [[w:Talk:Prayagraj]]. A consensus was already raised there. And the conclusion was to move the page to Prayagraj. JaggaDaaku (talk) 05:44, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

There's no need to reply in two places, but thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:04, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

User:Korosh Ardeshir Gabriele Rokni

Please delete This user page, it’s created by a globally banned user. Airtransat236 (talk) 23:44, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

How do you know? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:45, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Per m:Special:CentralAuth/Korosh Ardeshir Gabriele Rokni, whatever LTA goes by the name "HoY" is probably the one that's globally banned. There's a list on m:List of globally banned users, but I couldn't find this specific LTA, FWIW. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 06:17, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Siliguri

Subject: listing for a hotel. In addition to stating the style of the hotel, I noted what attractions it is convenient for. You allowed the mention of the style and cuisine, but felt that noting that is convenient for the city airport is considered touting. What is the logic behind that assement? In reality, people leaving on early morning flights will very likely look for a hotel based on the fact that it convenient for the airport. I also mentioned that it is convenient for the city's university, which for proseptive students or parents of students is probably more useful to know than the style of the hotel or the type of cusine served. So, I ask again, why is stating information regarding convenience considered touting, whereas information on the architechtural style of the hotel not? Thank you. SingyeDzong

Let's leave discussion on your user talk page, so that we don't have discussions in two places. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I replied on my page. Thank you. SingyeDzong|talk

hbs.wikivoyage

Regarding your comment on User talk:Zblace, hbs.wikivoyage is the Serbo–Croatian Wikivoyage that's in the Wikimedia Incubator as of writing this – see incubator:Wy/hbs/Glavna stranica. The reason why I'm posting this here is because I didn't want to derail the discussion on that page. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:35, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:57, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

AppalachianCentrist

Is AppalachianCentrist really LibMod? Special:CentralAuth/AppalachianCentrist seems to indicate that this is a user in good standing on enwiki, but then again, I wasn't around during the times of LibMod to know what their editing patterns were like. cc @SelfieCity: --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:24, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

The user's edit history on WV and WP doesn't look like Libmod to me. The username is vaguely reminiscent, but that could be a coincidence. It would be good to know SC's thought process (if he can remember; I doubt I would!) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:07, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

You're talking about the user who complained on their user talk page, which I deleted, about being unfairly blocked? Who else would they be? If you have any doubts, read User talk:AppalachianCentrist. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

TBF, the only reason why I thought this might not be LibMod was because the account in question isn't globally locked (while LibMod is). But again, as I said, I wasn't around in 2018 so I'll leave it up to you guys (I trust whatever judgment you guys make :-)). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 21:44, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

No, I'm not seeing it. "Who else would they be?" - Uh, they could be literally anyone. Since when was complaining about being blocked evidence of identity? You'd expect everyone who didn't want to be blocked to argue back, regardless of whether the block was justified.

Maybe you or SC could address which of the user's edits on WP or WV are reminiscent of LibMod? ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:48, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Can't you see content was: "== Ban removal == SelfieCity (talk · contribs), It has been over two years since I got an "indefinite block" that was in my opinion, was the wrong approach. I have been banned indefinitely even though I was editing in good faith. I am asking for this ban to be removed. I am requesting this in order to get...

That could be literally anyone? How many users do we block indefinitely for reasons other than their being spambots, repeat touters or vandals? Who else can you name? And who else has complained (repeatedly) in socks about being banned? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

In addition, consider the username itself. It's really obvious, but if you insist on having this discussion, please continue it somewhere other than my user talk page while linking this thread, and start a thread at Wikivoyage talk:User ban nominations, where we can have a long, drawn-out, unpleasant discussion of this individual again. Or you and others can. Nothing personal, but I'm not willing to participate in this further. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:38, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

It's probably best you don't participate, if your reaction to a simple question is so dismissive. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:09, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Now, you're intentionally provoking me? Name me one other user this could plausibly be. Or don't, and stop posting about this on my user talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:47, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, I think you are not understanding me. Dealing with fascist, anti-Semitic users and then renewed debates about whether to stop banning them is emotionally scarring to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:52, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I am genuinely sorry for any hurt caused. You don't have to participate further. Since we're being honest, I found your two earlier replies quite rude and dismissive of my and SHB's questions, but perhaps I misinterpreted your tone. If so, I'm sorry for that too.

It is not now, nor will it ever be, my intention to yield any ground to any LTA, particularly to a racist bellend like Libmod. Fascism disgusts me. It's not welcome on Wikivoyage or in any civilised space.

But when I believe an innocent third user has been misidentified and unjustly banned by our team, I have to speak up.

I'll say no more about this on your talk page.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:55, 31 May 2023 (UTC).

Thanks. I completely understand your motives. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:23, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

(general reply to everyone involved) Continuing on what ThunderingTyphoons!, here's a bit of anecdotal experience of me in the shoes of someone who's been erroneously blocked on bgwiki last December (for bot-identified vandalism before being unblocked with the reasoning "няма основание за блокиране -- добросъвестен потребител", Google translated to "no grounds for blocking -- bona fide user"): I would have said something similar (except I asked a bit more politely and gave actual reasoning why), but wouldn't it be good to at least have a discussion with the user to confirm whether they're LibMod or not (preferably on Meta)? Again, take my statement with a pinch of salt because I'm not in a position to make a judgment since I wasn't around in 2018 – I'll leave it to TT!, Ikan and SC. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 08:10, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

188.12.182.29

Smells like Luchy04 to you? Their editing pattern looks very similar to Luchy04, but they claim they're not Luchy04. I've temporarily blocked them from editing mainspace, but could you take a look into 188.12.182.29 (talk · contribs)? TIA, --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:31, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with you, but in any case, it's obvious that putting the same text in multiple articles is bad. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:07, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Native Hawaiians

I know this is somewhat tangential, but is it a common misconception among Americans that the Native Hawaiians are Japanese? My Chinese colleague was telling me that Hawaii was part of Japan before the U.S. conquered it, and that the native people of Hawaii are Japanese, and she said that she learnt this from her American husband. For context, she watches Fox News every night with her husband, so I wonder if this misconception might be particularly common among right-wingers. (And she has some other pretty controversial views too; for instance, she thinks black people are dumb by nature, and she also supports colonialism and Apartheid because she believes only white people know how to govern a country, and non-whites needs to be shown the ropes by white people in order to be capable of good governance). The dog2 (talk) 21:24, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I feel confident in saying there is no such common belief, but I couldn't tell you what habitual Fox viewers commonly believe about Native Hawaiians. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:52, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

I see. Well, the world is such an interesting place. I never imagined I'd meet a white supremacist who is a not white. Luckily for her, her English isn't good enough to express those views to my other colleagues, so I'm the only one who has to put up with them. And for that matter, I have conservative American friends, and even they find her views on black people to be ridiculous. The dog2 (talk) 23:09, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

There was a Jewish Nazi in the U.S. Outliers and self-haters are always around. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:21, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

FDR Drive

Isn't FDR drive classified as a parkway under New York state law? And speaking of which, I remember there is the Garden State Parkway in New Jersey too. So perhaps parkway is a term specific to New York and New Jersey. The dog2 (talk) 21:34, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I have no idea what the FDR Drive is classified as under New York State law, and almost nobody else does, either, so how is that relevant to English language varieties? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:35, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Well, Wikipedia calls it a parkway too. But in any case, the term "parkway" is used at least in New York state and New Jersey, and perhaps other eastern states too, so the question is, what type of controlled-access highway is called a parkway. I don't think Americans use it as a generic term like "freeway", but I could be wrong. The dog2 (talk) 02:38, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't think we use it generically in spoken New York English. The generic word is "highway," though highways could be toll roads or not. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:48, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

In any case, I think we should have a brief description as to what a "parkway" is given that visitors to New York state and New Jersey will likely encounter the term if they drive. The dog2 (talk) 06:45, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Parkways are probably most commonly highways that have a strip of park in the median and/or the sides, but that's not always the case. Sometimes, parkways are not highways at all (consider w:Utopia Parkway (Queens)). Read w:Parkway, and after you do, I think you'll understand that we should not try to give a vernacular definition of the word. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:57, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

How about just saying that some roads, including controlled-access highways, that are barred to commerical vehicles may be called parkways? The dog2 (talk) 13:16, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

If the word is in the name. Why does that bear mentioning? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:10, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ So how would an average New Yorker describe FDR Drive or the Garden State Parkway then? The dog2 (talk) 17:47, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Either use the name or the word "highway." Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:36, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Infallibility in Islam

To my knowledge (I might be wrong), Sunnis consider the Caliphs to be infallible, while Shia consider their Imams to be infallible. Also, Sunnis believe that the Caliphs must come from Muhammad's tribe, while Shias believe that Imams must be the direct descendants of Muhammad through his daughter Fatima and son-in-law Ali. Ibadis instead believe that any adult male can be their Imam so long as he is well-versed in the scriptures, is morally upright, and has the support of the community leaders. So if it turns out he isn't fit to be leader, Ibadi theology allows for him to be deposed at the discretion of the community leaders. The dog2 (talk) 15:40, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I like the Ibadi take on this. But the thing is, historically, there have been various times when claims to be a caliph were not universally accepted by Sunnis. Didn't all the Ottoman emperors claim to be caliphs, and doesn't the king of Morocco claim to be? And of course there were the self-styled caliph leaders of the "Islamic State" terrorist organization. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:31, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

So how do you think we should write the section on Ibadis Islam then? Even the Shi'as don't universally recognise all 12 Imams. And the vast majority of Sunnis do not recognise the leader of ISIS as Caliph. So yes, I get your point on the complexity of this issue. Most Sunnis right now only recognise the legitimacy of the caliphs of the Golden Age of Islam, but not the claims of the others who came after that. Support for the Ottoman sultan's claim to the title of Caliph may have been significant in its time, but the vast majority of Sunnis today don't support that claim. The dog2 (talk) 22:51, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I really don't know. It may be too complicated to cover in a travel guide. Though I think it's mainly the 4 "rightly guided" caliphs that are considered unquestionable, not the Golden Age ones. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:58, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

I think for a travel guide, all we need to cover is the main thing that makes Ibadis distinct form both Sunnis and Shias. Details about theology would be out of scope. The dog2 (talk) 00:40, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

But what actually is the distinction? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:23, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ I'm not an expert on Islam, but from what I have been reading, it appears that Ibadis believe that the selection of their Imams should be purely meritocratic, and that bloodline should not matter at all. This is unlike Sunni Islam where Caliphs must be from Muhammad's tribe, or Shi'a Islam where their Imams must be a direct descendant of Muhammad through his daughter Fatima. The dog2 (talk) 05:02, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

OK, if so, maybe that can be mentioned. It doesn't seem travel-relevant, so it's questionable to include, but at least it can be stated in a single sentence. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:17, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Special:Diff/4706826

Apologies about the redlink, but mw:Manual:Noindex is what I wanted to link. Basically, adding __NOINDEX__ prevents an article from appearing in search engine results, and we don't want joke articles to. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:38, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

I see. Go ahead and re-add that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:09, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Question

Hi there, I wonder if you could help me with something ? on this site the description of Brighton is perfect, but on Wikipedia it’s not ! and I’m wondering if you can help change this ? All descriptions state Brighton as a seaside resort ( which it is) but this needs to be changed to either city or city of Brighton and Hove. This could be added as a citation https://www.visitbrighton.com/ On the lead description it states “ Brighton is a seaside resort and one of the two main areas of the city of Brighton and Hove. But I feel this would be correct . “Brighton is a seaside resort and formally known as the city of Brighton and Hove. With this citation added on formally https://www.kingseducation.com/kings-life/10-fun-facts-about-brighton#:~:text=An%20important%20first%20fact%20is,two%20to%20be%20separate%20towns If you can help that would be great if not that’s fine too :) Thank you. Greenfrog23 (talk) 14:56, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for contacting me, but I'm puzzled by your request. Are you unable to edit Wikipedia? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes unfortunately I got banned, it was very harsh tbh, I understand if you can’t help, I don’t want to get you in trouble. If you can’t help, what do you think I could do about this as it really bothers me not being right? Thanks. Greenfrog23 (talk) 17:55, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

No, I understand. Don't be too upset if I don't prioritize this, but I'll definitely consider checking the links and possibly making the changes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:12, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

No that’s fine and thank you so much I really appreciate your help but like I say no worries if not, thank you. Have a nice day. Greenfrog23 (talk) 19:50, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

You too! Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:20, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Bogota article borough section and question

Hey Ikak thanks for your feedback on the Bogota article! I wondered if you could provide me with an answer, so you mentioned that the lead for the boroughs in the Bogota article was to dense the way I wrote and that I should save some information for the articles themselves. So should I still include the information specific to each borough in their respective article? I also wanted to ask if I wanted to add a picture to a section that dosen't have that is that something I could do? Cause I was thinking of adding an image from wikimedia so...If you could help me with those two things I would greatly appreciatte it! Thanks for your help. 149.19.41.100 02:02, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Could you also tell me the process of how to add a new image to an article that wasn't there before. 149.19.41.100 02:03, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Bogota article borough section and question

Hey Ikak thanks for your feedback on the Bogota article! I wondered if you could provide me with an answer, so you mentioned that the lead for the boroughs in the Bogota article was to dense the way I wrote and that I should save some information for the articles themselves. So should I still include the information specific to each borough in their respective article? I also wanted to ask if I wanted to add a picture to a section that dosen't have that is that something I could do? Cause I was thinking of adding an image from wikimedia so..Could you also tell me the process of how to add a new image to an article that wasn't there before. If you could help me with those two things I would greatly appreciatte it! Thanks for your help 149.19.42.35 02:07, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's exactly what I mean: include more details about boroughs in the district articles, though even there, try to keep it readable. The Chicago district guides, many of which are star articles, are great examples that you might consider emulating. On images, yes, the Bogotá article could definitely use several more images. The easiest way to add images is to find pictures you like on Wikimedia Commons and use the following format: [[File:(Name)|thumb|(Brief explanatory text)]]. Here's an example of a thumbnail in the Bogotá article: [[File:Tropicario at the Bogota botanical gardens.png|thumb|Bogota's Tropicario Bio-Dome in the Botanical Gardens]]. Of course, you should also feel free to upload any photos you shoot to Commons! If you want to do that, start here. Let me know if you have any other questions. Best, Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:18, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Most images on Wikipedia are in fact on Commons. Try just linking them without any reference to Wikipedia, like the examples IK gives above. If that doesn't work, then check the file description page on Wikipedia (click the thumbnail – and "more information" if you are directed to the "image viewer"). If it says the image is unfree, then read Wikivoyage:Non-free content or try to find another image. If the image is free, then it can be uploaded on Commons; ask for help if you don't know the procedure. –LPfi (talk) 09:12, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help! I will let you know how it goes. Yes, I feel like the main article definitely needs some more pictures especially coming from a city that is just so vast and has so many interesting thing to do. But for example some of the borough articles such as Suba (The largest borough in Bogota) which has a population of well over a million and a half citizens, (nearly a city in itself), only has one picture. So I feel like the borough articles are definitely lacking some information, but even more so pictures. I'm surprised at how fast you answered my question...I must say I expected it to take much longer. 138.43.105.132 23:36, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Ikak, I hope you are well. I wanted to ask you what you think of some edits I did to the Bogota page. I added more information on the city's sections. Well Bogota is typically divided into 6 geographical sections both for cultural and geographical, as well as socio-economic reasons. These 6 geographical sections are in turn divided into 20 boroughs each with it's mayors and local government office, which in turn are divided into neighborhoods. I added more information on the six sections of the capital district. I also wanted to comment, i feel like this information on the city's structure would also be helpful to include somwhere in the article. 149.19.40.246 00:25, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Please feel free to tell me if the think the edits are too long or not necesary. As always, I appreciate your imput. 149.19.40.246 00:26, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Because you bolded the areas of the city, it doesn't feel so much like a long block of black text, so it isn't bad and will probably be fine after some small edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:30, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Hey Ikak, just wanted to ask what you thought of some edits I did to the understand section of Bogota? 149.19.54.231 00:41, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Film that might interest you.

I just came across this film trailer on YouTube: . It's a Czech film about Josef Myslivecek. I don't know when it will be screened in the U.S., but I thought you might be interested. The dog2 (talk) 15:54, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a look. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:01, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Hello

I'm sorry to hear that you injured your thumb yesterday. Hope you have a speedy recovery (and rest well)! --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 00:16, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:55, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Rural area

Hey, I had posted this in the pub and then I was too embarrassed about it so I deleted it. If you have any insight, I'd like to know if it was right to mark Tibesti Mountains (a mountain range in the Sahara) and Ennedi Plateau (a UNESCO site) as "rural areas". That was the template I used. But it feels a bit wrong because there is no "stay safe" section, etc., so it feels like I'm marking a rural area in a Scandinavian country or something. In any case, my question is, is outlining these as "rural areas" correct or could you suggest something better? Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 11:19, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

@Brychehughes: A Stay safe section is not a requirement, but it can absolutely be included if there is a safety concern. Hope that helps :-). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:48, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

@SHB2000: I think my larger thing is like, is this stuff a "rural area"... no right? How much does this shit matter? These are kinda n00b, pedantic questions I know. Does Rural Area have any kind of significance beyond its default sections? (It has a weird template at the bottom, which I don't like) Brycehughes (talk) 12:03, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Eh, not really re significance – I'm pretty sure it was meant to resemble something in between a city and a park article, but nothing else, really. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Hahaha I love/hate how everything is so cool here. Fine, a f'ing rural area it is. I'm used to the Wikipedia battlegrounds where you fight to the death on the minutia. And then somebody would angrily yell at me when I got it wrong! Maybe I'm traumatised ha. Brycehughes (talk) 12:24, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Nah, you're not alone. There are moments on Wikipedia where I feel like "fuck this, why does this seem excessively bureaucratic?" --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:34, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

The hours down the toilet mate. I got done on this w:Tibesti Mountains due to "close paraphrasing". I was like, well they phrased it better than I ever fucking could, and WHO CARES. Anyway... Brycehughes (talk) 12:44, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Exactly – it's not like shit's engraved in stone, anyway. But anyway... --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

WP:I will WP:FIGHT WP:YOU to the WP:VIRTUAL death over whether WP:THIS is a WP:TRUE rural – oh, hey, sorry, wrong site. Never mind!

One of the things I appreciate about Wikivoyage is that we can maintain standards and keep treating each other like human beings. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

I hope we do that and will continue to do so. Thanks for handling this, folks. I really have nothing to add to the discussion on rural areas, except that if it's rural and an area, that's an appropriate template to use. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:10, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks all! Brycehughes (talk) 00:15, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh

To your point, I understand the Azerbaijani government has offered to let the ethnic Armenians stay provided they accept Azerbaijani citizenship, and has promised to let them continue practising Christianity. But because the ethnic Armenians do not believe the Azerbaijani government, virtually the entire population has left for Armenia. What I do know is that in the first Nagorno-Karabakh War, the ethnic Azeris were ethnically cleansed from Nagorno Karabakh, while ethnic Armenians were ethnically cleansed from Azerbaijan proper. During Soviet times, the area had an Armenian majority but also a long-established Azeri minority. The dog2 (talk) 22:25, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Right. No disagreements. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Zhuzhou

Hello, first of all, thank you for your corrections and questions. Realgar wine is a kind of white wine or rice wine brewed by grinding it into powder. Drinking realgar wine is a folk custom during the Dragon Boat Festival in China. Yuanxiao is one of the traditional Chinese snacks. It is called "Yuanxiao" in northern China and "tangyuan" in the south. Eating Yuanxiao is also a festival custom. Laba porridge is a porridge made from many traditional ingredients. Drinking Laba porridge is a custom during the Laba Festival. Regarding the Qixi Festival, my description is not accurate enough and I will make changes. Finally, the Spring Festival I wrote about is a traditional Chinese festival, but the customs are unique to Zhuzhou. Zhongxxin (talk) 04:29, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, Zhongxxin, but it doesn't really help much to explain things to me on my user talk page. What's necessary is to give clear descriptions on the relevant destination article page(s). But "many traditional ingredients" doesn't tell me much. Which ingredients, for example? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Classification of Baghdadi Jews

Do you know if this group of Jews is Sephardic or Mizrachi? Most Singaporean and Hong Kong Jews are descended from Baghdadi Jewish immigrants. Of course, these days the local Jewish population in both Singapore and Hong Kong are far outnumbered by expatriate Jews from Western countries, so you're more likely to meet an American Jew than a Singaporean Jew in Singapore. I didn't even know there were Singaporean Jews until I met one in the military. The dog2 (talk) 00:30, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

I have no expertise on this, but I assume they're Mizrachi, and that seems to be confirmed by w:Baghdadi Jews, though I really wouldn't be surprised if some Sephardim or even Ashkenazim took refuge in Baghdad at certain points. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:57, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, music person

I don't know why, but this edit tickled me. It's the little things sometimes. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:38, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

If only taxi drivers stopped scamming me :-(. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:07, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

At least in New York, it's usually fake taxi drivers that scam people. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:37, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

It wasn't bad at all in Sydney until COVID hit and Ubers took over. I won't feel bad the slightest if the taxi industry completely dies considering every cab ride of mine ever since 2020 has resulted in a verbal argument of some kind before a nopology from the taxi company. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 07:06, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

I just wanted to ask you about the sensitivity of this. At least from the mainstream media, it appears that the official American position is that any and all criticism of Israel is by definition anti-Semitic, and that anyone who does not support anything and everything Israel does unconditionally is by definition an anti-Semite. Would you say that would be the default position of American Jews and Christians? Yes, I am aware that anti-Zionist Jews exist (like Neturei Karta, and some Jewish academics like Noam Chomsky), and correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand they are very much a minority and considered by most Jews to be race traitors. In real life, I usually deliberately avoid the topic when I know that someone is Jewish given the sensitivity of it, but I just wonder if you can tell me what the general consensus on the issue is. I had a Palestinian roommate as a undergrad, so I've heard the other side of the story too. The dog2 (talk) 16:20, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

Where are you getting this from? It's bizarre! Hardly anyone thinks that every criticism of Israel means a person is a Jew-hater! Have you noticed how vociferous debate is in Israel? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:38, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

That's just the impression I get whenever I hear American politicians talk about Israel on TV. Whenever I hear criticism of Israeli government policy, it's usually on left-wing alternative media on YouTube, in which you do have some Jews who criticise Israeli government policy towards the Palestinians (like Sam Seder), but on mainstream media, anyone who criticises Israeli government policy is immediately shut down and called an anti-Semite. I saw a clip from an interview on MSNBC where the president of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) demanded that Mehdi Hasan be taken off the air because of his public support for the Palestinian cause. I also have seen a mini documentary about Neturei Karta on YouTube, were they are seen marching in pro-Palestinian protests, and Jewish counter-protesters will show up and denounce them as race traitors. As I said, I usually avoid the topic when I know that the person I'm speaking to is Jewish to avoid any possible offence, so I don't know what the general sentiment among American Jews in general is.

And with regard to Israeli politics, I'm not familiar with it, but my understanding is that general public sentiment has been shifting further and further to the right as time goes on, so while in the early 1990s about half of Israelis were open to a two-state solution, right now a solid majority of Israelis are vehemently opposed to any compromise with the Palestinians, and wants Israel to just annex all the land and kick the Palestinians out. I know there have been pro-democracy protests opposing Netanyahu's judicial reform, but those have nothing to do with Palestinian rights. The dog2 (talk) 22:18, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

yeah dude, please read this post from this ex-CIA competent analyst, watch the videos, read the comments, your sources might benefit some more variety. Ibaman (talk) 22:25, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

The dog2: "That's just the impression I get". This is exactly the problem. You hear something, you read something, and then you decide that it is important to share your "impressions" with travellers about sensitive issues that you know very little about. Many editors have asked you to stop adding information about politics, history, and "sensitive ussues", because often you are just wrong. The Israel/Palestine conflict is hugely complex, and readers of our travel guide will not benefit from your naive "impressions". Wikivoyage is made worse when you add misinformation. Please just stick to adding practical travel information instead of making work for other editors who have to monitor your constant tinkering with politics, "sensitive issues", etc. Ground Zero (talk) 06:17, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Also, there's a huge distance between demonstrating in favor of Hamas and criticizing the Israeli government! Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:03, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

What's your view on the likes of The Young Turks and Kyle Kulinski then? Most of the mainstream media considers them to be anti-Semites because of their criticism of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Is there a general consensus in American society that anyone who opposes Zionism is ipso facto a Jew hater? The dog2 (talk) 18:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

TYT are insignificant and not worth thinking about. I have no idea who Kyle Kulinski is and have no interest in being informed about him. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:27, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm also really not interested in spending time discussing Zionism, but you should ask yourself the question: if someone is opposed to nationalism only when it's by Jews, what does that make them? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:30, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

• "Is there a general consensus in American society that anyone (...)"

coudn't help having a big "wtf"+"rofl" moment here.

tell us, dude, what you think, is Recep Tayyip Erdogan an ally of Israel, selling them Kurdish petrol behind NATO's back, or is he their sworn enemy?

If only the world was as simple and easy to read as you wish it to be. Ibaman (talk) 18:37, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ibaman: To answer your question, it doesn't surprise me that this is happening. It's long been known that the leaders of the Muslim countries have used the Palestinian issue as a distraction from their own domestic policy failures, and they may publicly declare that they support the Palestinians, but in reality they don' give a hoot. (And by the way, I know that Western government leaders do the same thing too, albeit using different issues, so I'm not saying it's only the Muslim countries that do that.) The dog2 (talk) 00:44, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Uro Islands

Hey there, since you're the editor I think of when I think of admins and since there's no established practice for moves, do you think it's time to move Uro Islands to Uros Islands per Talk:Uro Islands#Move to Uros Islands? I am unable to do it myself, nor do I have any idea if it'd be appropriate to do at this point. Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 10:12, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

No time right now. I'll check in after work if no-one has taken care of it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:50, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Seems Ground Zero fixed it. –LPfi (talk) 18:43, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Good. I forgot about it again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:39, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you all. Brycehughes (talk) 03:30, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Revert on the Discover template

Good evening Ikan! Was this edit maybe by accident? Ypsilon (talk) 18:02, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, must have been. Sorry. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your copy edits on Finland. I think the nuances got better, in addition to the language. –LPfi (talk) 07:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Good. I'm glad they were helpful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Baroque or classical

Hi, I just wanted to ask you if you would classify this opera as baroque or classical, based on your ears as a professional classical musician. The advertising materials describe it as baroque, but the year it was composed (1768) is typically considered to be part of the classical period. My own ears seem to find it at some sort of a transition phase where it has somewhat moved away from the baroque style of Handel and Vivaldi, but is not quite the classical style of Mozart and Haydn yet. The dog2 (talk) 05:02, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

That's really beautiful. I've listened up to 9:45. It reminds me somewhat of Pergolesi. It sounds Rococo to me. I don't think it's Baroque, but I'm not sure it's quite at the point Gluck got to in his neo-classic opera reforms. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:37, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice was composed in 1762 I think, which would be before this particular opera. I guess it would take time for Gluck's reforms to become standard among all composers, and this particular composer hadn't caught on yet. The dog2 (talk) 13:38, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

It was very popular, but different composers do different things at the same time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

By the way, I've also checked out some of Handel's other operas, and I've noticed that he uses French-style overtures for most of his Italian operas, and even has ballets incorporated into some of his Italian operas, which is unusual because having a ballet as part of an opera is characteristic of French and not Italian opera, like in the works of Jean-Philippe Rameau. Is that what you mean when you say that Handel was a progressive composer for his time? The dog2 (talk) 03:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

No, although those are good observations and make sense. But I would have said that because he deemphasized counterpoint much of the time, although he was a great contrapuntalist. More homophonic textures that emphasized the top and bass lines and often used simple, pleasant harmonies are what became the Rococo style. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:23, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Prophecies of the Messiah in Judaism

Don't the prophecies in the Bible say that the Messiah will be from King David's lineage? And for Christians, Jesus being born in Bethlehem is of huge significance because that is seen to fulfill the prophecy of the Messiah being from King David's lineage, given that King David's family came from Bethlehem according to the Bible. I don't know the details of what Jews think the Messiah will do when he comes, but what I've heard is the belief that he will defeat the enemies of Israel and re-establish the Temple of Jerusalem. The dog2 (talk) 05:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

The Gospel of John makes no sense in considering Jesus the Son of God and yet including a genealogy from King David through Joseph, but that aside, Judaism is not a religion based on literal readings of the Bible, and ignoring secular Jews like me who don't believe in a Messiah at all, there are some Jews who believe a Messianic Age brought about by collective action is more likely than a single man saving us, and some of them are Orthodox. However, what is travel-relevant about any of this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

If we know of any sites connected with Jewish eschatology, those should certainly be listed, but I'm not sure of any since my knowledge of Jewish eschatology is very limited. But that aside, isn't eschatology considered to be a core part of any religion? We do describe the key tenets of each religion in the Understand section of our articles on religion. The dog2 (talk) 05:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't think descent from David is crucial to Judaism, but of course if you have two Jews, you have at least three opinions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Blocks of IP addresses

Hey Ikan Kekek, I noticed you just blocked Special:Contributions/174.251.161.238 for three months with talk page and email access disabled. In my opinion we should avoid disabling talk page and email access, especially for IP blocks, unless there's a good reason to believe the vandal has abused them, for the reasons discussed at Wikivoyage:How to handle unwanted edits:

"IP addresses should be blocked only for as long as they are likely to remain assigned to the same person. We don't want to block other people trying to use the address. Block periods should be shorter than above if there is a real risk that other people will be blocked. It is better to block an IP address for a shorter period and then reimpose another shorter block without notice if problem editing resumes after the earlier block expires. Avoid disabling talk page and email access unless absolutely necessary, as this makes it difficult for other users accidentally caught up in the block to draw attention to their predicament." —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Do what you think best, but this is a repeat vandal who posts really gross crap with one IP address after another, so I don't want them to post anything more or email anyone. Did you look at the deleted "articles"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:07, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah, I've blocked this vandal several times too. I've made a few range blocks that I'm hoping will make it feel less like whack-a-mole.

I agree with you that there's no value in the vandal posting anything else or emailing anyone. My concern is about collateral damage – if we disable email and talk page access and the IP address is reassigned to an innocent user, that user will have no way to tell us about their predicament. This is especially a concern because the block is so long. (In my opinion, three months is pointlessly long in this case, because as you said the IP address seems to be reassigned frequently – the vandal will have a new IP address by tomorrow. I'm hoping the range blocks may help stop them even with the changing IP addresses.) —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:16, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

OK, I understand. I'll just add that I've previously given harassment as a block reason for this miscreant. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:19, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Wish you a very happy Christmas! :-) Haoreima (talk) 19:00, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Same to you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:37, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

If you don't mind me asking, are you playing for any mass service this year? Merry Christmas to you as well (my card is absent on this page since I didn't want to post the same message here and on Commons). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 23:28, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I did. I got home around 3 AM. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:24, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm always amazed with the level of commitment you musicians put into events like these. Hope you had a good rest afterwards, though! SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 09:46, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

It's a pleasure. Yes, I can rest on Christmas Day this time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

against odds, the sul link has worked

trust all is well with the music and all, 01:33, 17 February 2024 (UTC)