Talk:Specialist schools in the United Kingdom

This article was nominated for deletion on 2022-01-15. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

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"Specialist Schools" no longer exist in the UK. This article is false and misleading.

"Specialist schools" in the UK now typically refer to "Special Schools" ie SPED and SEND provision. There is already an article for this on WP. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_education

One user https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ThatRandomGuy1 appears to have started a campagn to rewrite this article with erroneaous information, suggesting that Specialist Schools, as defined by the DFE still exist. In fact this scheme was ended in 2010. See: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/specialist-schools-programme-michael-gove-announces-changes.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Specialist_school&oldid=1065451499 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Specialist_school&oldid=1065450994 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Specialist_school&oldid=1065311122 to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Specialist_school&oldid=1064874126

The user also keeps adding in a non RS, Link spam, (possibly paid link?) citation for this url: https://www.theschoolrun.com/parents-guide-secondary-school-types-school as a reference to back up the claim: "As of 2022, 95% of secondary schools in England have specialist status.". Not only is theschoolrun.com not RS for education statistics (it is a commercial internet shop), NOWHERE, does it cliam of prove the statement "As of 2022, 95% of secondary schools in England have specialist status."

This brings into question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ThatRandomGuy1 's motives for adding this link and changing the content. Clearly this link does not help the article, which is now hopelessly inaccurate and misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.134.18 (talk) 18:59, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I added the theschoolrun.com link twice, first as a reference of the claim "As of 2022, 95% of secondary schools in England have specialist status." (which is actually located in the link despite your claims: see the specialist schools section https://www.theschoolrun.com/parents-guide-secondary-school-types-school) and second when I reverted the article to change parts of it from the past tense to the present. The schoolsrun link was also added to a note as a reference to the note's statement that the figure 95% did not include CTCs, UTCs, maths schools and studio schools. I added this note because these schools are also specialist schools (though they were introduced after the discontinuation of the specialist schools programme), therefore meaning that your claim that specialist schools no longer exist is also incorrect. This information is provided in multiple sources featured in the article including: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-19477671, https://www.newschoolsnetwork.org/what-are-free-schools/free-school-news/dfe-invites-top-universities-to-open-specialist-maths-free, https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-open-a-maths-school, https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED525596.pdf. The url https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-open-a-maths-school confirms that specialist schools still exist as of 2021, at least according to the British government. Furthermore, https://www.gov.uk/government/news/specialist-schools-programme-michael-gove-announces-changes does not show that specialist schools no longer exist, merely that their funds would be mainstreamed and that they would be no longer required to designate/re-designate (ending the specialist schools programme). It also states that the funding was not removed but were instead routed to schools through the Dedicated Schools Grant. It also says that schools can still gain specialist status (in specialisms introduced by the specialist programme), provided they meet a range of benchmarks set by the DfE. Example schools include: https://www.mgsg.kent.sch.uk/about-mayfield/overview-of-the-school, https://www.st-cleres.thurrock.sch.uk/195/science-and-sports-specialisms, https://www.burntmillacademy.org/26/our-arts-specialism. All of these schools are still specialists and, in the case of St Clere's, have become a specialist after the discontinuation of the specialist schools programme. Therefore the assumption that specialist schools no longer exist is false. You can also have my assurance that I won't be adding the schoolsrun link again now that you've shown me that it is linkspam and violates Wikipedia policy.ThatRandomGuy1 (talk) 19:50, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, and thrice no. Specialist Schools *do not* exist in 2022. Specialist schools are not, and have never been the same as UTCs, Maths schools etc. To claim so is simply wrong. Clearly, you are not a teacher or you have little to no knowledge of secondary education in the UK. Your references quoted above simply do not support your claims. Firstly, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-19477671 refers to a UTC. This is a completely different type of school. Here's an explanation of UTC schools for you: https://www.utcolleges.org/ and there's also an existing Wiki article for UTC schools. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_technical_college . This link of yours: https://www.newschoolsnetwork.org/what-are-free-schools/free-school-news/dfe-invites-top-universities-to-open-specialist-maths-free refers to a 16-19 college of FE. FE is not a school! "Specialist schools" always referred schools up to secondary education, ie up to 16. Similarly, this link of yours https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-open-a-maths-school does not relate to schools - it relates to post 16 education. The example schools you then list are simply schools that *had* specialist status under the pre 2010 scheme, but haven't changed their marketing in the meantime.

St Clere's School, one of the three schools I used, actually achieved specialist science and sports college status in 2013 (two or three years after the programme ended). See https://www.st-cleres.thurrock.sch.uk/193/about-st-cleres. Furthermore, this article notes the fact that maths schools are 16-19 as seen here. If the British government are calling it a specialist school then what is it? While you are correct that they are not schools (they are instead sixth form colleges) the article can simply be modified to say "A specialist school, also called a specialist college, is a type of educational institution in the United Kingdom" instead of "type of school in the United Kingdom". Both the BBC and an official council classify UTCs as specialist schools. CTCs, one of my other examples, were also classified as specialist by the SSAT when they were running the specialist schools programme. Furthermore, it appears that your definition of specialist school is different to mine (which is the one used in the article). You seem to view specialist schools as those schools introduced between 1994 and 2006 under the specialist schools programme. I define them as a school (or college when talking about Maths schools) that specialises in a certain subject area (e.g has specialisms in say English for example). I conclude with my definition using the sources I found and added to the article. Specialist programme specialist schools, UTC and CTC specialist schools, specialist Maths schools and specialist studio schools all have one thing in common; they specialise/have specialisms in certain subject areas (as shown in these sources). Wikipedia follows sources, not unsourced opinion. According to these sources specialist schools are what I've just explained to you. Therefore specialist schools *do* exist in 2022. ThatRandomGuy1 (talk) 22:08, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm reading the deletion prod since there's nothing to suggest any of your recent edits merited the creation of a new article in addition to the existing WP article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist_schools_programme — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.159.134.18 (talk) 20:50, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As per WP:GD I have replaced the deletion prod with an AfD. ThatRandomGuy1 (talk) 22:08, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I withdrew the nomination as I don't think we're supposed to use AfD for this as this is a content dispute. I apologise for the inconvenience. It seems you see no reason for this article to exist alongside the specialist schools programme article? Perhaps we can merge the two? I do however maintain my opinion that specialist schools still exist. ThatRandomGuy1 (talk) 20:42, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]