Talk:List of Mario franchise characters

Need of List Criteria

Hello! So while going through the article, I noticed many characters who have basically only appeared once in the Mario series are on here (such as Wart who most people only know as being in America's Super Mario Bros 2 Super Mario Bros USA in Japan ) which means that this article is in desperate need of a list criteria as that is essentially what this article is. Along with that, details that are unimportant to the character (Such as them being on some kind of top 10 or something) need to be removed. I'm fairly sure I've removed most of the unimportant details just going through the article, however it may still need to be cleaned up. ― Blaze The Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 14:12, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm wondering as well if the subsection on Mario himself needs to be so long since he has his own separate article. I think everything after his first paragraph could reasonably be cut but I'm hesitant to make such a large change without input. Crowslang (talk) 22:49, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi there, I stumbled across this page on my suggestions, and I think 'Mario' should only have 1 section (probably the first), or the 3 sections should be condensed into a summary section. Any thoughts? Realtent (talk) 19:52, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree. If people want more information they can continue to Mario's full article. Either remove the subsections or condense it into one section. Landfish7 (talk) 08:59, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Piranha Plant

I don’t know where I should start this topic so I’m starting it here. Why doesn’t Piranha Plant have its own article? It’s one of the most reoccurring enemies in the Mario series, only behind Boo in total appearances last I checked. It’s playable in Super Smash Bros Ultimate and Mario Tennis Aces, it deserves an article by now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GalaxyPedestalFan (talk • contribs) 23:22, 9 November 2021 (UTC)

It looks like it's been added. Also, what a coincidence I stumble upon this exactly a year after posting! Realtent (talk) 20:00, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

List criteria (again)

Anyone more familiar with list criteria have an idea of what that might look like for an article like this? I'd like to get the ball rolling on it but I'm not sure where to start. Landfish7 (talk) 07:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

And it seems to be something that has been contentious and confusing in the past, based on previous discussions in the talk page archives. So that does make me worry a bit about the feasibility of it. Landfish7 (talk) 07:26, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

All that being said, as a start, I feel like the non-boss antagonist section at the very least should be limited to the following criterion: Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own article in the English Wikipedia. The list feels too long and arbitrary as it is right now, and I feel like limiting it to just the ones that have a full article prevents it from turning into an exhaustive list of Mario enemies, or worse, a random assortment of Mario enemies.

Additionally, I feel like a case could be made for this criterion covering the whole article, though it would mean potentially removing Luma, Toadette, Captain Toad, Lumas (species), Poochy, E. Gadd, Nabbit, Toadsworth, Kamek, King Boo, Wart, Cackletta, Petey Piranha, Tatanga, and Kammy Koopa, among the aforementioned Mario enemies.

However, I'd argue the following:

• Luma and Lumas (species) could be merged into Rosalina's section
• Toadette, Captain Toad, and Toadsworth could be merged into Toad's section
• Poochy could be mentioned in Yoshi's section
• E. Gadd and King Boo could be mentioned in Luigi's section
• Kamek and Kammy Koopa could be mentioned in Bowser or the Koopa Troopa species section
• Some of the other Mario enemies could be merged into certain sections as well, such as Magikoopa being merged into Koopa Troopa, and Goombrat into Goomba.

I feel like I could be on to something here? I may consider mocking up what this could look like in my userspace or sandbox. Thoughts? Landfish7 (talk) 07:44, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Forgot a few characters. Nabbit can probably be cut. Wart can probably be cut as well. Cacklette can be cut. Petey can be merged into Piranha Plant. Tatanga can be cut. Many of the basic Mario enemies can be cut. Landfish7 (talk) 08:20, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure the best way to showcase a proposed rewrite of this article. Am I allowed to copy and paste this text into my sandbox or a userspace subpage and make the changes there? Landfish7 (talk) 08:54, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

@Landfish7: Hey thanks for letting me know about this (Even if it was at 3 AM for me). I had attempted to do this in the past but gave up since no one really showed interest. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 13:23, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

In regard to the above: Yes Luma and LUmas (species) should be merged into Rosalina's section (heck they're even presented as one character in Super Smash Bros Ultimate). So should Toadette, Captain Toad, and Toadsworth since, well, they're just unique toads. Poochy should also be mentioned in Yoshi's section. E. Gadd and King Boo I'm not sure about since they're exclusive to Luigi's Mansion (excluding E. Gadd's logo appearing on the brush Bowser Jr uses in Sunshine) Kamek and Kammy Koopa should probably be mentioned in the Bowser section. I disagree with Magikoopa being merge into Koopa Troopa since they are more different than just like a red koopa or Paratroopa. But Goombrat can be merged into Goomba. Nabbit should be cut since he doesn't really appear much outside of spinoffs, Petey can be merged into Piranha Plant, Tatanga can be cut since he's never appeared outside of the game he was in. Also, just link your sandbox. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 13:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

@Blaze Wolf: Here's a link to my sandbox. This is a very early proof of concept so I'm definitely open to any suggestions or significant alterations that may need to be made. There are a few different ways that this could be approached, and some information can probably still be condensed or thrown out. I've merged Lumas (species) and Luma into Rosalina. I've put Toadette, Toadsworth, and Captain Toad under Toad for now, but it may be possible still to merge the sections more elegantly. I've similarly put Poochy under Yoshi. I've tentatively included E. Gadd and King Boo under Luigi, as they are most relevant to him. I've kept Magikoopa separate for now, but this does make him one of the only characters without an English Wikipedia article to be included under their own bullet/section, but I could definitely see one being made some day. Oh, and I misread the article and noticed Goombrat is already merged into Goomba lol. I went ahead and cut Nabbit. And I've placed Petey under Piranha Plant. I've also cut Tatanga. Please feel free to let me know your thoughts! Landfish7 (talk) 22:15, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Oh, and I forgot to explicitly mention that I've put Kamek and Kammy Koopa under Bowser for now. Again, some of their information can probably still be condensed and merged better into Bowser's text, rather than having separate paragraphs, if necessary. Landfish7 (talk) 22:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

When everyone is awake and has a moment, I'd like to hear more thoughts on what I've got so far. Still very open to suggestions. Otherwise, I'm tempted to be bold and cut through the red tape and just create a live version and see how it goes, as I feel the version I have now is at least an improvement to what is currently published on the actual page. I'll definitely give this several days to give people time to discuss it, though. So please do share! Again, my draft can be found in my sandbox. Landfish7 (talk) 07:47, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

"Mouser (Nintendo)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Cyborg Wart" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Pom Pom (Mario)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Swoop (Mario)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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Cleanup

Should the cleanup template be removed from this article? This article has changed a lot since August 2011, and with no cleanup reason specified, I see no point in keeping the template up. If there is something that the article needs to be improved upon, the template should be updated with the relevant reasoning. Landfish7 (talk) 22:45, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Magikoopa

Getting started on a Magikoopa page if anyone would like to help me expand it. Landfish7 (talk) 04:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Intro

I think the intro should be rewritten/condensed. It also needs to have the selection criteria made clear, but I'm not sure the best way to incorporate it into the intro's prose. Any help with this would be appreciated. Landfish7 (talk) 06:27, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Bob-Omb and Shy Guy

Looking at the enemies list, I find the lack of these two enemies to be very notable given how frequent their appearances are, both in series and out. They're rather well known overall, so it surprises me that they aren't properly listed. Pokelego999 (talk) 20:55, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Being well-known isn't enough for them to be considered notable. They need information about them from multiple published sources that are in-depth (not just passive mentions about them), reliable, secondary, and independent of themselves. In other words, they need to have been analyzed and discussed at length by multiple trustworthy sources that aren't published by Nintendo or its affiliates. If you could provide such sources indicating notability, then maybe they can be added. But for now that remains to be seen. Landfish7 (talk) 03:36, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Proposed change of list criteria

I propose changing the list criteria for this article from having a standalone article to one in which a character must fulfill any of the following:

1. The character must have their own article (e.g. Vivian)
2. The character must have appeared in at least five Mario games, in any sub-series (e.g. Kamek)
3. The character must have had an unquestionably major role in at least one Mario game, in any sub-series (e.g. Olivia)

This is to bring the list more in line with its counterparts for other franchises.

Any thoughts are appreciated. DecafPotato (talk) 18:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

I disagree a bit about the third point, because that invites a large number of characters from the RPG games. For example: Count Bleck, Grodus, Cackletta are major villians in their respective games but are not particularly notable or covered by reliable sources. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 19:26, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I can see that. It also may invite a lot of subjectivity. DecafPotato (talk) 20:34, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

How about we get rid of the third point and then change the number of appearances in 2. from five to four. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 21:29, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Sounds good. Unless there are any objections, the list criteria will be as follows:

The character must either have their own standalone article, or appeared in at least four Mario franchise games of any sub-series.

I've been bold and made the change. DecafPotato (talk) 03:19, 16 November 2022 (UTC)