Talk:Kherson Oblast
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Irredentist POV pushing with maps
In regard to this edit and related ones. No. Crimea is "disputed" in the sense that Russia claims it. But Crimea is still internationally recognized as part of Ukraine, like it or not. If anything, the UN condemned the Russian occupation of Crimea. Until that changes, it's POV pushing to claim that Crimea is "disputed", especially in an infobox where it's impossible to provide context. If you want to explain the details behind the occupation in text, that would work, but this article isn't the place for it.
It makes some sense to have a map which marks Crimea differently in main articles, such as Crimea, Ukraine and Russia. But to spread that to every single Ukraine-related article is just irredentist and nationalistic POV territory marking. It's disruptive and tendentious. This supposed "consensus" that the edit summary refers to was relevant only to the main articles; Crimea, Ukraine and Russia. Territory marking on all these other articles is just obnoxious. Stop it.Volunteer Marek (talk) 01:29, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- It is ridiculous to say that calling Crimea a disputed region is POV pushing. The whole point of calling it a disputed region is for NPOV as it is disputed between Ukraine and Russia, which both claim it as part of their own territory. Russia doesn't just "occupy" the region, it effectively administers it as part of its own territory. Not the entire international community recognizes it as a part of Ukraine, although most of it does. The UN resolution was not unanimous, there is still a small number of nations recognizing it as a part of Russia. The maps don't depict Crimea as an integral part of Russia and neither do they depict it as an integral part of Ukraine, because it is a disputed region between the two governments and the only NPOV thing to do is to depict it as such. --Leftcry (talk) 02:01, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- Again, the international community, as represented by the UN does recognize Crimea as part of Ukraine. There's a couple of Russia's puppet states that don't. So what? It's a fringe. That's exactly why this is POV - it's putting the views of a fringe on the same footing as mainstream view. It IS an integral part of Ukraine. Please stop it with the nationalist edits with these junkety POV maps.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:25, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- The UN doesn't own the entire international community and although most countries are a part of the UN that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to their own sovereign decision. It's not just "a couple of Russia's puppet states", it's completely independent and recognized sovereign governments such as Afghanistan, Venezuela, Nicaragua and some others. Saying that the entire international community recognizes Crimea as Ukraine is simply like saying those sovereign states aren't a part of the international community. The UN, as an organization, may recognize Crimea as Ukraine but it doesn't speak for each country's own recognition. Wikipedia does not treat Crimea as an integral part of Ukraine and neither does it treat it as an integral part of Russia as either of those stances are POV pushing which is why it is treated as a disputed region for NPOV. You may think of it as an integral part of Ukraine, but that is your personal opinion and you should not POV push and remove NPOV maps per WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Also stop claiming I am the one making nationalist edits by showing Crimea as a disputed region as you are the one who is trying to edit against NPOV by showing a disputed region as an integral part of a country. Also don't assume that just because I reverted one of your edits on a different page that I did so for revenge. I did so because I thought that your edits on that page were completely dubious, however that's a different discussion. --Leftcry (talk) 02:39, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- You tell in edit summary here that "There was a consensus long ago, right after its annexation by Russia, that Crimea will be depicted as a disputed region on maps and articles." Could you please provide any link to this discussion? My very best wishes (talk) 16:41, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- The UN doesn't own the entire international community and although most countries are a part of the UN that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to their own sovereign decision. It's not just "a couple of Russia's puppet states", it's completely independent and recognized sovereign governments such as Afghanistan, Venezuela, Nicaragua and some others. Saying that the entire international community recognizes Crimea as Ukraine is simply like saying those sovereign states aren't a part of the international community. The UN, as an organization, may recognize Crimea as Ukraine but it doesn't speak for each country's own recognition. Wikipedia does not treat Crimea as an integral part of Ukraine and neither does it treat it as an integral part of Russia as either of those stances are POV pushing which is why it is treated as a disputed region for NPOV. You may think of it as an integral part of Ukraine, but that is your personal opinion and you should not POV push and remove NPOV maps per WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT. Also stop claiming I am the one making nationalist edits by showing Crimea as a disputed region as you are the one who is trying to edit against NPOV by showing a disputed region as an integral part of a country. Also don't assume that just because I reverted one of your edits on a different page that I did so for revenge. I did so because I thought that your edits on that page were completely dubious, however that's a different discussion. --Leftcry (talk) 02:39, 24 March 2015 (UTC)
- Again, the international community, as represented by the UN does recognize Crimea as part of Ukraine. There's a couple of Russia's puppet states that don't. So what? It's a fringe. That's exactly why this is POV - it's putting the views of a fringe on the same footing as mainstream view. It IS an integral part of Ukraine. Please stop it with the nationalist edits with these junkety POV maps.Volunteer Marek (talk) 02:25, 24 March 2015 (UTC)