Talk:Michael Mastro

Two more refs to work with - anyone?

• http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
• http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2019559789_mastroringsxml.html Ottawahitech (talk) 19:12, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
• Ottawahitech (talk) 19:51, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

More refs

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2019644569_mastrorejectedxml.html

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2019526116_mastroextraditionxml.html

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2019530735_mastrohuntxml.html

http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2019631449_mastrohearingxml.html

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/10/24/2343581/seattle-developer-mastro-arrested.html

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Captured-Medina-developer-Mastro-wife-indicted-3982488.php

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/2012/11/mastros-must-remain-in-jail-french.html

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/2012/10/mastros-captured-lake-annecy-near.html?page=all Ottawahitech (talk) 01:07, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903374004576583081918294252.html Ottawahitech (talk) 15:26, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

• http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/10/14/40616.htm

Name change discussion (The Bankruptcy and extradition of Michael Mastro → Michael Mastro)

This discussion was moved from User talk:Patchy1

Hi, On 27 October 2012‎ you (Patchy1) moved this page I created to Michael Mastro with this edit summary:

This article should be about the person, with the bankruptcy/extradition as a section of that article

I believe that the original name better represents the direction his article is taking (for example bankruptcy issues relating to Linda Mastro). Could you possibly reverse your move? Thanks in advance. Ottawahitech (talk) 00:09, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

A biographical article name must be the name of the person, in this case Michael Mastro, as per WP:NCP. For example, Barack Obama is the article, not U.S. President Barack Obama. So unless there is a very special reason, the title will not be changing. -- Patchy1 00:49, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:BLP1E. --87.79.111.52 (talk) 18:58, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

Michael Mastro → Bankruptcy and extradition of Michael Mastro – This article was created as The Bankruptcy and extradition of Michael Mastro on October 24, 2012[1]. The same day it was renamed to Michael Mastro with edit summary, "This article should be about the person, with the bankruptcy/extradition as a section of that article"[2]. That reasoning seems faulty to me. It makes no sense to name an article about one aspect of someone's life after the person rather than after the aspect. Now, if this person's entire life is notable and this article is about that, then it makes sense to make this into a biography named after him, the subject. But if the subject is only the bankruptcy and extradition, then it's really about that, and not about his entire life, so I think the title should reflect that. But it's obviously a controversial issue (see above), hence this proposal. What do you think? --Born2cycle (talk) 18:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC) Removed "The" from proposed title. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:18, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

I am no expert (just the person who moved it, also the one with the faulty reasoning haha), but the only instance I have seen where something like this gets its own article, is when the person is notable in their own right and there is too much information in the one article, so a split is suggested. We'll see what the experts say. -- Patchy1 20:38, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

• I am also no expert (and I do not possess article moving powers), but here is an example of another such title: Shooting of Trayvon Martin (I think). Ottawahitech (talk) 20:26, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

• Comment – given the topic, not really a bio, the move sounds plausible. But not with "The". Dicklyon (talk) 23:44, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Good point - I've updated the proposal accordingly. --Born2cycle (talk) 00:18, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
• Comment - all sources (in Google Books before the bankruptcy) are to Michael R. Mastro. There is another Michael Mastro notable in Google Books, an off-Broadway actor. The New York Times Theater Reviews 1997-1998 - Page 243 New York Times - 2001 "Three musicians, played by Frank Wood, Michael Mastro and Joseph Lyfe Taylor, sit around a cassette player listening to the tape of a fervent, wrenching trumpet solo." etc. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:21, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

  Correction, Michael Mastro (actor) Broadway, and film http://www.themichaelmastro.com/bio.html http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0557838/ . He's notable and is going to inevitably need an article, though no links intended for him appear to already be misdirecting to the property tycoon at present. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:06, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

  Stub created and both articles hatnote-disambiguated. No particular opinion on this RM other than for WP:BLP issues I don't think we can have a title which is BLP-ambiguous in relation to a current criminal case. Bankruptcy and Extradition of Michael R. Mastro, Michael R. Mastro or Michael Mastro (businessman) would all be possibles - there is a serious BLP concern to leave at current ambiguous title. As regards the Bankruptcy and Extradition of.... expansion, that would depend if there's anything particularly news/unique worthy about the legal aspects of either the Bankruptcy or extradition. In the case of the latter there may well be, but current sources don't demonstrate that it is especially notable in legal terms. Overall it seems more a bag of business/bio/legal/local notability elements. Not against the long title, some things in favour, but happy to see what others say. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:23, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

  • That would be an issue for whoever creates an article about the off-Broadway actor, should it ever be created. News sources seem to all be using Michael Mastro for this one. --Born2cycle (talk) 03:34, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Outside of news, most of the references about this guy seem to include the middle initial; most book refs without the middle initial are for the actor. Are you saying we should prefer the more concise, more ambiguous, title nevertheless? Dicklyon (talk) 03:57, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
      • I'm saying that prior to the existence of Michael Mastro (actor) there was no reason to include the R. That's moot now. However, if we are to have an article on the businessman, presuming there is a primary topic here, I think Michael Mastro (businessman) is better than Michael R. Mastro, considering usage in reliable news sources, which is where most people learn of him. I see no reason to include the R. in the title proposed for this article. --Born2cycle (talk) 21:55, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
• Keep as Michael Mastro. The reason we do not use the name of the person when they are only notable for an event, and make the article about the event, not the person, is to avoid using their name, which is subverted if the title chosen includes their name. I would suggest that if their name appears anywhere in the title, the title be chosen just like any other person. I have no preference whether it is Michael Mastro, Michael R. Mastro, or Michael Mastro (businessman), except that less work is needed if it is simply left where it is. In a year or so primary topic can be used if anyone brings it up. Apteva (talk) 06:26, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• The reason we do not use the name of the person when they are only notable for an event, and make the article about the event, not the person, is to avoid using their name, which is subverted if the title chosen includes their name. -- That is the very first time I've ever come across that line of reasoning. Consider articles like Death of Ian Tomlinson. That article is about the, well, death of Ian Tomlinson. This article is not actually about Michael Mastro so much as about the affair surrounding him. Nothing, really nothing, and most certainly not your own private reasoning above, speaks against naming the article accordingly. --87.79.111.52 (talk) 17:45, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• Rename WP:BLP1E. We do not avoid using the name of a person for 1E events unlike what Apteva is saying, since we have many 1E events with the principal's name as part of the article name. Since this person is 1E notable, it should only cover the event, not be a biography, and WP:PRECISE using the name of the person as the article name would not be precise enough to define the scope of the article, as the title's implicit scope for an eponymous title would be their entire life. -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 08:01, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
• Comment. If the article is to be renamed, wouldn't sentence casing make it "Bankruptcy and extradition of Michael Mastro"? 213.246.91.158 (talk) 08:43, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• Yes, and I'm boldly changing the capitalization in the request to reflect MOS:CT. --87.79.111.52 (talk) 18:42, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

• Rename per User:70.24.250.26. I wish I had something to add to 70.24's reasoning, but there's nothing left to add except maybe underscoring the fact that Apteva's reasoning is entirely made up and has not even a remote relation to actual best practice in article naming. --87.79.111.52 (talk) 18:40, 16 November 2012 (UTC)