User talk:Rick Norwood

Welcome!

Hello, Rick Norwood, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! -- Longhair | Talk 15:50, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

User talk:Rick Norwood/Archive 1

Nationalism

Just wondering why you restored that "collectivist" paragraph. It is true of some aspects of nationalism but again its not a universal. Otherwise nice to see the article getting sorted and hopefully there will not be the sort of problems that were present on the LIberalism article recently. --Snowded ^TALK 21:44, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Many forms of nationalism, especially German nationalism under Hitler and Italian nationalism under Mussolini, stress that the state is everything, the individual nothing. The paragraph mentions that some forms of nationalism favor individualism. Rick Norwood (talk) 21:50, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's true, but it doesn't make a connection between nationalism and collectivism. --Dekker451 (talk) 05:25, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Social liberalism

I do not think that your edit to the lede correctly reflects the source. While the wording may have sounded like libertarian jargon, it used the terminology that the new liberal writers had used. If you can find a better source than Richardson, then perhaps it could be used instead. The Four Deuces (talk) 16:51, 24 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The lede could be re-written without the terms positive and negative with the terms explained later in the article. Social liberalisn does not seem to have a specific definition but is used to refer to liberal ideas developed in the late 19th century, Liberal Party policy implimented in the early 20th century and later writers and political groups influenced by them. In its original form, it did not include prevention of discrimination, protection the consumer, or prevention of pollution of the environment. The farther you get from the origins the wider and less clear the definition becomes. The people who implimented the welfare state did not necessarily believe in social liberal philosophy. In fact the policies had been implimented earlier in Germany as State Socialism.

I think it is important to state that social liberalism developed from 19th century (classical) liberalism, which had intended to bring about greater political and economic equality. Their advocacy of free education can be seen as a precursor to the welfare state. The new liberals had been classical liberals, and JS Mill can be seen as a link between classical and social liberalism. However free markets had created a new middle class that opposed any further extention of equality or government intervention.

If you do not like Richardson as a source you could look for others. Here is how Guido De Ruggiero described it:

The best formulation of the new English Liberalism of the twentieth century is in our opinion that of Hobhouse. Here we find the teaching of Mill and Green in a modernized form.

Freedom is based upon the idea of growth and development. The individual is what he makes himself; he makes himself by assimilating his environment, and assimilates in proportion as he affirms himself by reacting to it. Liberalism is the belief that Society can be constructed upon this self-directive power of personality; and that in virtue of this power there are no limits to the extension of this construction. Liberty thus becomes not so much an individual right as a social necessity. It rests not upon A's right to be left alone by B, but on B's duty to treat A as a rational being. It is not the right of crime and error to go unmolested; it is the duty of treating the criminal and the erring or ignorant man as beings capable of justice and truth, and raising them up instead of letting them lie. Based upon personality, it demands free scope for the personal development of every member of the community. It is not enough to proclaim in its name equal rights in the eyes of the law; it demands also equality of opportunity, the égalité de chance of the French democrats.

Coercion is the destruction of a growing personality; for personality is shaped not from without but from within, and the function of the external order is not to create it but to provide the best conditions for its development. Progress is not a mechanical process but the liberation of living spiritual energy.

This implies that the function of the Liberal State is not to oppose the freedom of personality, but to realize it in practice. The State does not supply its members with food or other material commodities; it supplies the normal man, healthy in mind and in body, with the opportunity to provide for himself by useful work. The right to work and the right to a living wage are as real as the right to person and property. The labouring man who is unemployed or underpaid owing to bad economic organization is a reproach not to the charity but to the justice of Society.

This, it may be said, is not Liberalism but Socialism. But Socialism is a word with many meanings; and there may be a liberal Socialism, as there certainly is an illiberal.

There is a mechanical form of Socialism, with which Liberalism can have nothing to do. It attributes the phenomena of social life to the sole operation of economic factors, and in politics declares a class warfare based upon a rigid distinction between classes which is wholly non-existent. Modern Society, far from emphasizing and simplifying distinctions, is bringing about an increasingly complex interaction of class interests; a modern revolutionary cannot attack property in the interest of labour without finding that labour has an interest, direct or indirect, in property.

Against any authoritarian tendency in Socialism, against any scheme of life imposed from without, the liberal mind rises in revolt in the interest at once of the individual and of Society. It is determined to do justice to the individual and social factors in production, against the abstract individualism and the abstract Socialism which accentuate this or that element to the exclusion of the other. It conceives the rights of the individual as harmonious with those of the community, and defines the former in terms of a common good and the latter in terms of the well-being of individuals. Thus the growing co-operation between Liberalism and Labour, which has lately replaced the antagonism of the nineties, is not an accident or an expression of political opportunism, but is deeply rooted in the necessities of the new democracy.

The Four Deuces (talk) 15:51, 25 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will try to develop a new lead using this source. The Four Deuces (talk) 12:12, 26 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have prepared a re-write of the lede. One of the advantages of using De Ruggiero is that his book was published in 1925, so is very close to social liberalism as it was first stated. It think it is important to restrict the description to the theory as it was then conceived. Regulation for example pre-dates social liberalism, while anti-pollution laws were developed long after. It is important that the new liberals justified their policies in terms of freedom rather than charity or equality, which were respectively conservative and socialist justifications for adopting these policies. And social liberals supported imperialism and were accepting of the "social conservatism" (for want of a better term) of their times.

Social liberalism is a school of thought that considers the right to work and the right to a living wage are as real as the right to person and property and considers unemployment and low wages as a reproach to the justice of society. It holds that the function of the liberal state is to supply individuals with the opportunity to provide for themselves by useful work. It conceives the rights of the individual as harmonious with those of the community, and defines the first in terms of a common good and the second in terms of the well-being of individuals. (De Ruggiero) Social liberal policies include government intervention in the economy to provide full employment, provision of social welfare and protection of human rights. These policies were widely adopted and implemented in much of the capitalist world, particularly following the Second World War. Social liberal ideas and parties tend to be considered centrist or centre-left.

The Four Deuces (talk) 21:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I tried another re-arrangement of the description from De Ruggiero:

Social liberalism holds that the function of the liberal state is to supply individuals with the opportunity to provide for themselves by useful work. The right to work and the right to a living wage are considered as real as the right to person and property, while unemployment and low wages are considered to be a reproach to the justice of society. It conceives the rights of the individual as harmonious with those of the community, and defines the first in terms of a common good and the second in terms of the well-being of individuals.

The Four Deuces (talk) 13:13, 31 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

polynomial

There is now a section in the talk page of polynomial. Actually there is no rule preventing people to do edits without discussion in the talk page. But is you want to participate, there you have the discussion. franklin 13:53, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, probably without noticing, you reverted some changes correcting multiple uses of weasel words. franklin 13:59, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the best is if you revert your edit, and then change only those specific parts that you don't like. franklin 14:00, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Rick Norwood! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 4 of the articles that you created are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to insure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 876 article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the list:

Philip Balsam - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Jon Michael Smith - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Romano Felmang - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Bill Benulis - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 22:05, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Runawy Feedback

Hi - I was intrigued by your assertion that global warming could become runaway because of positive feedback, and that Stefan-Boltzmann does not help us. I looked at this paper [1] which says "Physically, the Stefan-Boltzmann feedback becomes more negative and the water vapor feedback becomes less positive as the temperature increases. Both effects drive the system towards greater stability." Who is correct? HistorianofScience (talk) 08:46, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - thanks for the message. I have just modelled the whole thing on a spreadsheet and got it to match IPCC figures. First point to note is that estimates for forcing are just that - estimates. One paper estimates 2 W/m^2 per K positive feedback for water vapour. That approximately doubles the effect of CO2. The 'negative feedback' of the fourth power in the Stefan Bolzmann quickly kicks in. If however you assume 10 W/m^2 per K, then the positive feedback is enormous. However I am not sure I have modelled this correctly because I think the forcing itself changes with temperature (I have asked Connolley). But it's kind of intuitive anyway. Positive feedback is like balancing on a tightrope, one slip and you are off. The fact that the climate is remarkably stable within the 'noise' suggests there is no strong positive feedback. Best HistorianofScience (talk) 12:57, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Venus is an interesting one. Surface temperature is about 460 C, but solar irradiance 2,600 as compared to Earth's 1,380. This would cause the surface temperature to be only 35C higher than Earth. However Venus' atmosphere is almost all CO2, unlike Earth's. Although even that concentration does not explain the high temperature of Venus. HistorianofScience (talk) 15:22, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your comment here

From WP:NPA "comment on content, not on the contributor". Linking editors to what the Sunday Times said yesterday was a service aimed at rapid update of articles and resolution of editing issues. MalcolmMcDonald (talk) 18:19, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Modern liberalism in the United States

Hello, I've clarified some of the problems with this article on the talk page as you requested. However, I've also reverted your last edit under my radical Wikipedia philosophy that one should not delay in doing the right thing. That section is absolutely pathetic, and that's if I was complementing it.UberCryxic (talk) 16:21, 29 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

so we don't have an edit war

I removed this from the lede:

The Right is hostile in varying degrees to the left-wing goal of egalitarianism, seeing the imposition of social equality in all, or in certain parts of society, as artificially leveling down normal levels of social stratification in society.

The section on Social stratification and social order basically says the same thing in the first sentence with the same source. I don't think we need it in the lede. Bobisbob2 (talk) 01:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suspected sockpuppetry

I have filed a request for an investigation of "Can I touch it?" which I believe may be a sockpuppet account based on similar editing styles at Classical liberalism. Since you are familiar with the editing styles of the accounts named in the investigation, your comments there would be appreciated.[2] The Four Deuces (talk) 03:45, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know about Bobisbob2, but his first edits show that he was not a new editor.[3] He could be User:Bobisbob, but that account was never blocked and has not been used since Bobisbob2 began editing. The Four Deuces (talk) 17:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Liberalism

You misunderstood my edit. I said that he commended (as in, praised) the idea of freedom, not commented. I was looking for a shorter word/term that would get the same point across.UberCryxic (talk) 17:50, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Haha no problem.UberCryxic (talk) 16:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I also wanted to mention something else. You probably should be careful in saying something like "Marcus Aurelius was praising liberalism." Liberalism as a concrete ideology is an invention of the last few centuries, as are all other ideologies. One of the defining features of the modern world, in fact, is its ideological nature. Yes, there were many scholars and philosophers that praised liberty here and there, but none of them really believed in it like people do now (ie. ideologically). You can easily determine the veracity of that claim by analyzing the kind of world these people lived in: a world where slavery was viewed as a normal part of human life, a world where women were largely shunned from public and political participation, a world that forced the likes of Socrates to drink hemlock for denying the existence of state deities, and a world where the very same high-minded philosophers that praised liberty called non-Greeks contemptible barbarians -- relegating them to the kind of sub-human status associated with fascism! That's why I've always been skeptical about that second sentence of the article. It wasn't until modern times, really, that people actually incorporated the principle of liberty into the fabric of society. We make that clear by saying liberalism first became powerful in the Age of Enlightenment, but that implies that liberalism existed before that time, which definitely isn't true!UberCryxic (talk) 18:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Marcus Aurelius praised liberty.

I don't agree that the ancient world lacked idiologies: consider epicurianism, cynicism, and stoicism, to mention just three. But that's beside the point, of course. Rick Norwood (talk) 18:29, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Any and all traditions of the old world (pre-French Revolution) could be classified as archaic and conservative. In other words, none really pushed for a fundamental transformation of society. In fact, they often did just the opposite. All were more or less concerned with garbage like virtue or honor, principles that are laughable to modern ideologies (especially to liberalism, where liberty is essentially the only thing that matters). What you've proposed are better classified as a sensibility or a mentality, not an ideology, which is a coherent set of principles that says "the world should look like this, and hell needs to be raised until it does." This last mentality is a product of modernity, hence we call it an ideology, and finds no home in ancient times.UberCryxic (talk) 19:24, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assumptions are important in this debate, I suppose, and I'm working under the assumption of historian H. Stuart Hughes: "conservatism is the negation of ideology." So any conservative mentality or sensibility -- cynicism, stoicism, etc -- is inherently anti-ideological in the sense it believes society needs no major or radical repairs. Everything is fine and dandy to the mentality of the old world.UberCryxic (talk) 19:33, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

But the definition you gave (preference for the status quo) is effectively the same thing as negating ideology, since only with ideology can you change the status quo for reasons other than circumstance. Not only are they the same thing, but the negation of ideology has been the dominant interpretation of conservatism among many famous conservative scholars themselves, especially Chateaubriand (who coined the term 'conservative' and defined it as the opposition to ideological change, like liberalism) and Kirk.UberCryxic (talk) 16:32, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I'm with you on the part about the sources. But what greater sources can there be for conservative thought than Chateaubriand (coined the word and the modern idea) and Kirk? Burke is the only other comparable intellectual giant that comes to mind.UberCryxic (talk) 22:08, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely! Kirk actually borrowed the terminology from Hughes, and that's how that phrase became popularized (in fact, Kirk succeeded in making it popular enough that people wrongly attribute the statement to him and not to Hughes, who was actually somewhat of a liberal). And the idea of conservatism as existing in opposition to ideological change came, of course, from Chateaubriand, who essentially codified and formalized the lingering mentality of a world that preceded the French Revolution.UberCryxic (talk) 22:13, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A modest proposal

Hey Rick, I have an offer that you better not refuse! I want to make the article on liberalism a featured article and eventually place it on the Main Page. Liberalism is the major philosophy of modern times, and this article in particular receives a lot of popular attention given the fact that lots of links point to it (typing 'liberal' or 'liberalism' in Google will bring up this article first). The article more than deserves the honor of being featured. Having written and successfully promoted five already, I have an extensive history with featured articles. This time would be the first, however, that I would be working with someone else. I'm here on your talk page requesting that we form a collaboration, or an alliance, if you will, to improve this article and make it featured! The reason why I want to work with you is because you've been intimately involved with this article over a long period of time. Getting Liberalism to FA status will require major revisions and overhauls, and I don't want to undertake such a massive effort on my own if you're not on board (otherwise we'd have edit conflicts galore). Solo FA efforts usually work only on articles that don't have the same regular editors.

Before you agree to do this, I need to know a few things. This collaboration will be an absolute disaster if we can't trust one another. The last thing we need is perceptions of mutual suspicion or ulterior motives. To that end, I will tell you my philosophical background as it relates to this article. Once you know my biases, you'll be able to parry them better when we start editing. Once I know yours, I'll be able to do the same. I'm a social liberal in the tradition of Green, Keynes, Beveridge, FDR, etc. I'm also a radical feminist (although I'm male). I also think the article should do a better job of presenting a global perspective on liberalism (although it does a good job with that already). Hopefully you're not too far from that. If you're a conservative, let's say, then this collaboration won't work because we'll be endlessly fighting over what content to include and what to omit. But anyway, I need to know where your heart and your ideological orientation lies as it relates to this article. If you don't feel comfortable sharing this information, then it means we already have issues of trust and there's no point going further.

If you do agree to undertake this effort with me, let me know on my talk page. At that point I'll drop further details on the talk page of the article about how we move forward (ie. we'd need to decide on the article's structure, sources, etc). I don't know what prior experience you have in writing featured articles, but I've found they go by quickly if written in short and intensive bursts. In other words, don't worry about time, especially with two regular editors working on it. We should be able to finish within a month just writing on weekends!UberCryxic (talk) 16:00, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thanks for getting on board. I've left a lengthy note in the talk page about how to move forward.UberCryxic (talk) 08:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rick, I've explained in the talk page why it's best if we work on this together, but if you really want me to rewrite the article myself, I'm definitely up for the challenge. I just want you to be aware that the two versions will be separated by several light years. The current version is far too inferior to qualify for featured status, and that means it will require massive and fundamental changes outside the lead, which is actually pretty good already.UberCryxic (talk) 23:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, I've left you a new message in the talk page explaining where we are.UberCryxic ^(talk) 06:58, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Grrr I have to annoy the hell out of you with this now or else the reviewers will annoy the hell out of us during the FAC process. Remember to follow my referencing style. So the citation itself should NOT be Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Oxford University Press, 2008, ISBN 9780199540594. It should be just Aurelius pp. [page number]. The other information goes in References. I'm sure you know this and maybe you were planning on changing it later, but it goes much faster if you do everything right in real time.

End of rant. Go on with your work haha!UberCryxic ^(talk) 16:37, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I responded to your inquiries about referencing style in the talk page.UberCryxic ^(talk) 17:33, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Responded in talk page.UberCryxic ^(talk) 16:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Haha I'm sorry. I just want us to communicate quickly. You said you'll be going to a conference the second week of March. Do you think you'll have your parts done by then?UberCryxic ^(talk) 16:58, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It depends on what you mean by help (haha). If you give me clear instructions on what you want in the Philosophy section (ie. what philosophers to cover, what parts of liberal philosophy to emphasize, etc), then I can finish that entire section this weekend myself. You'll have to let me know soon if you want to follow that path. Look, I know you're much more busy than I am and I realize I just threw you a pretty big task, so I wouldn't feel bad if I had to take over. We'll have plenty of time to review this article before the nomination anyway.UberCryxic ^(talk) 16:00, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok this is what I plan on doing: I'll work on Philosophy this weekend, integrating some of your material and your sources. It seems like you didn't have a chance to get much done today. I understand why, so don't worry. But like I said before, these FA pushes either culminate in an explosive flurry of activity or they die because of lethargy. I want to finish this article quickly. I know I said no hard deadlines, but I still want to move forward fast. Be sure to let me know exactly what content you want me to include in the Philosophy section. Thank you.UberCryxic ^(talk) 21:16, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Don't sweat it dude. I just finished the Philosophy section. Now we need to prepare for the nomination.UberCryxic ^(talk) 06:38, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, can you do me a quick favor? Newly created articles have a tag that stays on them until someone besides the creator comes along and reviews them, at which point the tag can be removed. Can you please go review the Liberal Revolution of 1895 and determine if you can remove the tag? I created that article over a week ago, but no one has reviewed it yet. Thanks.UberCryxic ^(talk) 06:52, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rick, I will make some more changes per our conversation in the talk page. I am planning to nominate either today or tomorrow. You will be a co-nominee, so after I make my introductory remarks, I encourage you to come and say something too (just whatever you want...the article's history, how far it's come, etc). I'll let you know exactly when I nominate.UberCryxic ^(talk) 02:09, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I made a few last-minute corrections (particularly the ibids). Give the article one last good look. Make whatever (hopefully minor by this point) changes you feel are necessary and signal the green light on my talk page. When you tell me to go, I'll nominate it.UberCryxic ^(talk) 06:09, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yay good news! Deuces has announced his support for the FA nomination. It's all up to you now. Bring it home Rick.UberCryxic ^(talk) 06:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at my last change and tell me what you think.UberCryxic ^(talk) 16:09, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ok well, review those minor changes when you have time (I just switched a few words). I plan to go ahead and nominate right now.UberCryxic ^(talk) 16:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have nominated the article. I encourage you to leave some comments.UberCryxic ^(talk) 17:37, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hang on. Let's give it a few more days. We can still address their concerns at FAC, which can often last weeks. You were totally right on the length of History, and I was completely wrong. I just wanted to mention that now. That's what most of the criticism is about, and I've significantly shortened that section as a result. The article is now 94 kb, down from the 113 with which it entered FAC.UberCryxic ^(talk) 19:12, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There's no doubt that things don't look great now, but I've seen a lot worse at FAC (one of my nominations started out disastrously and I thought would certainly fail, but it passed in the end). Today the bubbling "excitement" actually settled down: one of the more experienced editors has agreed to review the article and provide some tips. Let's see how that goes. We can't give up now. We just started the process. Steady under fire. Also remember that you're a co-nominee, and I would definitely appreciate some backup haha!UberCryxic ^(talk) 19:23, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have withdrawn the nomination. I will now reopen a peer review and start the GA process. Both will last for about two or three weeks, after which we will return to FAC (plan for early April). I have received assurances of assistance from several other editors, so this time the article will receive plenty of attention ahead of the next FA nomination. More details forthcoming.UberCryxic ^(talk) 23:45, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The peer review is now live.UberCryxic ^(talk) 00:19, 7 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conservatism

I wonder if you could comment on this description of Burke's contribution to conservative thought. It was difficult to find contemporary writing about Burke and Conservatism that has not written from a conservative POV, so I used The conservative illusion[4] I still need something on how Burke has influenced modern conservatism.

Edmund Burke was the private secretary to the Marquis of Rockingham and official pamphlateer to the Rockingham branch of the Whig Party. (Edmund Burke: selected writings and speeches, p. 18[5]) Together with the Tories, they were the conservatives in the late 18th century United Kingdom. (The conservative illusion, p. 33) Although Burke accepted liberal ideals of private property and the economics of Adam Smith, he assumed that economics should be kept subordinate to the Conservative social ethic. He insisted on standards of honor derived from the medieval aristocratic tradition, and saw the aristocracy as the nation's natural leaders. (p.37) That meant limits on the powers of the Crown, since he found the institutions of Parliament to be better informed than commissions appointed by the executive. (p. 52) He thought that the government should support the established church although allowing for a degree of religious toleration. (pp. 53-54) Although Burke accepted the American colonists' arguments that they were entitled to the rights of Englishmen, he became an outspoken opponent of the French Revolution because he thought capitalism should be subordinate to the medieval social tradition and that the business class should be subordinate to aristocracy. (p. 40) Burke justified the social order on the basis of tradition. It represented the wisdom of the species and he valued community and social harmony. (p. 41).

The Four Deuces (talk) 19:12, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought how Burke influenced modern conservatism is probably best left to later in the article, when modern conservatism was developed. The Four Deuces (talk) 19:44, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Liberalism

Hey, not much is happening right now except for the GAN process. You can definitely help out there as various concerns and suggestions are publicized. Once that's complete and the article is (hopefully) passed, we'll gage the barometer one last time before starting the FAC nomination again.UBER ^(talk) 21:08, 27 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Motion to delete 'Mass Killings'

Here ya go.... [6] BigK HeX (talk) 14:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

About this edt

Perhaps the politicians formerly known as conservatives? :) Soxwon (talk) 14:31, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

When the modern American Conservative movement was launched in the 1950s, they created historical narratives to show that they belonged in the American political tradition, just as the Left had done earlier, e.g., the Abraham Lincoln Brigade. (Of course these histories may be contradictory or contrary to mainstream history.) While we do not have to accept these histories, it is appropriate that when describing any US political group we report the historical narratives that they claim. TFD (talk) 15:44, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I was actually trying to inject a little humor. Soxwon (talk) 19:00, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice

Thanks for the advice, and for a great job cleaning up Modern liberalism in the United States. I am new to editing Wikipedia, so I am still getting into the swing of things & learning to properly interpret WP's policies. I am also a grad. student limited on time, and not familiar with popular revert methods - didn't have time to go through and manually correct that user's edits. It seems there are bots & tools to use for repairing vandalism, but I don't know how they work, and it seems that only the latest set of edits can be reverted? Maybe I'm wrong, but Wikipedia threw me an error message when I tried to revert the user's first edit to the article. Anyway, thanks for the clarification. I've been watching your efforts on WP & especially your participation in the Modern liberalism talk page debates ever since I joined Wikipedia a few months ago, and I think you do an excellent & appropriate job on the articles you work on. Cheers, John Shandy` • talk 05:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Patrick Allitt

The article Patrick Allitt has been proposed for deletion because under Wikipedia policy, all biographies of living persons created after March 18, 2010, must have at least one source that directly supports material in the article.

If you created the article, please don't take offense. Instead, consider improving the article. For help on inserting references, see Wikipedia:Referencing for beginners or ask at Wikipedia:Help desk. Once you have provided at least one reliable source, you may remove the {{prod blp}} tag. Please do not remove the tag unless the article is sourced. If you cannot provide such a source within ten days, the article may be deleted, but you can request that it be undeleted when you are ready to add one. — [[::User:RHaworth|RHaworth]] (talk · contribs) 08:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Liberalism (2)

Dear Rick, about "belief" and liberalism: is liberalism then a religion? --JanDeFietser (talk) 19:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Conservatism refactor?

I tried to refactor the discussion at the Conservatism talk page. Do you think your comment would flow better if you refactored it into two statements -- one for "Judeo-Christian" and one for "Radicalism"? BigK HeX (talk) 17:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Help Request

Hi,

I'm new to Wikipedia, and I have written a few pages on Mathematical topics that I would like to put up. Before doing this though, I would love to have some criticism and feedback from people who have done this before. Would you be so kind as to help me with this? Please have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Hh73wiki Choose an article from my personal sandbox that looks intriguing, and let me know what you think! Thanks! Hh73wiki (talk) 05:15, 8 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Radical Right

I have started a new article, The Radical Right and wonder if you would like to contribute to it. TFD (talk) 05:47, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The term was used to describe an American phenomenon, and no similar work was done on the Left. However, Laird Wilcox and John George drew a symmetry in Nazis, Communists, Klansmen, and Others on the Fringe, calling both groups "extremists". Radical left is a disambiguation page, mostly to parties that were historical radicals, and therefore free market liberals. I started an article called The American Left, which would be the left-wing equivalent of The Radical Right. TFD (talk) 15:54, 14 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good edit on History of Mathematics

Agreed that mathematics in India is an important topic, but that it is very difficult to establish correct dates for Indian chronology in reliable sources. Keep up the good work. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 12:43, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Rick Norwood. You have new messages at Point-set topologist's talk page.
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