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Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations

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< Wikipedia:Changing username

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Javert (talk | contribs) at 23:09, 21 September 2009 (→theneonempire → The_Neon_Empire: to WP:CHU). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Shortcuts
This page is for requests to take over an account name that is already registered. If you want your account renamed to a name that is still available, please use Special:GlobalRenameRequest or Wikipedia:Changing username/Simple.

This page is a forum in which users can request, and global renamers (including Stewards) familiar with local usurpation guidelines, can consider and carry out, the "usurpation" of usernames primarily held locally. This consists of renaming an existing account in order to vacate the username and allow another user to take it.

Please note that global accounts whose "home wiki" is another project or which have significant attachments on other projects cannot be usurped here; these requests must be made at meta:Steward requests/Username changes (see meta:Help:Unified login).

A few users have agreed to provide assistance with the mechanics of this process. If you wish to assist as well, please read the linked page carefully.

Notes

Archives

Completed requests
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Declined requests
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  • The account you want to usurp must have the English Wikipedia as its "home wiki", i.e. or should be displayed next to the en.wikipedia.org entry for the account at Special:CentralAuth.
  • The account you want to usurp should have no edits or significant log entries to qualify for usurpation (though rare exceptions are made in some circumstances). This includes edits or log actions on other Wikimedia projects. These can be checked through Special:CentralAuth.
  • Please do not request usurpation of another account if your own user account is less than several months old, or barely used. In order to ensure that usurped usernames be put to good use, we prefer only to grant requests from reasonably well-established users.

Instructions

  1. Log in to your present account.
    • Please do not leave a talk page message or e-mail the target account yourself. If this becomes necessary, a user familiar with the usurpation process will do so.
  2. Click here to place your request.
    1. Replace "TARGET NAME" with the username you wish to usurp.
    2. Replace "YOUR REASON" with a description of why you want to usurp the account.
    3. Leave the "Subject/headline" field blank.
If the URL above does not work, simply copy the following text, click "edit this page" and paste it at the bottom of the page. Modify it as indicated.
{{subst:usurp|TARGET NAME|reason=YOUR REASON}}
Advanced usage
For requests involving renaming an account other than your logged in account, use this:
{{subst:usurp|CURRENT NAME|TARGET NAME|reason=YOUR REASON}}
For usurp only requests, which leaves your logged in account untouched, set the usurponly parameter to yes:
{{subst:usurp|TARGET NAME|usurponly=yes|reason=YOUR REASON}}
To add an optional non default signature, use the sig parameter:
{{subst:usurp|TARGET NAME|reason=YOUR REASON|sig=OPTIONAL SIGNATURE}}
  1. Preview the changes and make sure both names are spelled correctly. Click "Publish changes".
  2. Your request is now complete and ready to be processed after the hold period (usually about a week). If the owner of the target account does not object, a global renamer will fulfill your request provided other requirements are met. Do not be surprised when you find yourself unable to log in to your old account.
  • Requests that do not adhere to these instructions or that are grossly malformed are subject to removal.

Please place your request in the section for the current day, at the bottom of the list. It is currently 10:29:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC) (Update).

Place your request here

Current requests

Please place your request in the section for the current day, at the bottom of the list. It is 10:29:58, 1 January 2025 (UTC).

Requests relating to single-user login and/or global accounts can now be found at Wikipedia:Changing username/SUL

August 29, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 6, 2009.

OiseauTemp → Oiseau

OiseauTemp (talk) 10:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Account has been dormant with no edits or entries since it was registered 3 years ago. OiseauTemp (talk) 11:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

-Hello! I am not the jpwiki user, no. At this point, since the jp user seems active and I do not wish to step on any active accounts, I do not plan to pursue the full SUL at this time, but I would like to proceed with the name change on this enWiki, since English is my native language and since the current account here has never made any entries or edits, and appears to be completely inactive. I put the request code in their Talk Page also, per the process. --OiseauTemp (talk) 10:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

...Just checking in, ..did I post my reply to you in the right place, or should I respond in another spot, or..? :) ..OiseauTemp (talk) 21:43, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it was to the right place. The issue is that the Japanese user has a better claim to the english wikipedia username than you do, so if I gave it to you, I would be wrongfully infringing his claim. Is there any other variant of the username that would work for you? MBisanz talk 06:14, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah.. Has the jp user made a claim then? Also if it may also be of any assistance, I am indeed the Oiseau at several other wikis, including fr (France), where it is my goal to assist in correcting glitches in material translated between the French and English wikis, among other causes. OiseauTemp (talk) 11:39, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, ok, owning the frwiki account might give you a decent claim to it then, I just want to get the opinion of another crat since I am somewhat need to the job. MBisanz talk 17:21, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
My feeling is that this rename can't be carried out. The jpwiki user has the global claim and is actively editing. The requestor could ask the jpwiki user – could work something out with them – but before that, this is probably a no. The practice is typically to decline requests that infringe on an active user's global claim. It might be prudent to get a third crat opinion, just for the sake of certainty. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 22:01, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, fair enough :) I didn't realize there was a global claim on it. I didn't see any other claims made on the en Oiseau talk page other than mine.
If you wish then I would be happy to ask the jp user if they would relinquish the claim, and if not, then as you say it might be best to leave the account dormant, because of conflicting claims (although could you give me a link to this other claim? I cannot locate it). Beyond that and in my own defense, I humbly submit that I also am active... if you add up my editing (about 20 in one month, compared to their 50 in a year), my pace is not all that different, if not more fervent... although I admit all of this unexpected turmoil does dampen my spirits a bit. I see all the other approvals and could not see any substantial difference with mine. I've received no email notifications of a challenge or global claim from the jp user, or from any crats, nor have I been able to locate any global claims to the en name online :/
I have been honest and upfront about not being the jp user too, and if there are any additional submissions you wish that I could post in order to help prove my identity on the other 4 wikis, I would be more than glad to provide them... feel free to ask.
In the meantime, I would be happy to ask the jp user if they would not mind letting me claim the en name.
...Thanks, OiseauTemp (talk) 13:06, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE - I have posted a request on the jp user talk page (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/利用者‐会話:Oiseau, or if your browser has a more standard url field interpreter, http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%88%A9%E7%94%A8%E8%80%85%E2%80%90%E4%BC%9A%E8%A9%B1:Oiseau), and also sent them an email using the form (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/特別:ウィキメール/Oiseau). I hope these duties are in compliance with your requests of me.
If they do answer no, then I would be glad (as MBisanz mentioned above at 6:14, 6 Sept. 2009) to accept the name Oiseaux instead, though Oiseau is still preferable unless the jp user disputes it, in which case I believe the fair thing would be to leave the account dormant. Thanks, OiseauTemp (talk) 14:09, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have put an identification entry on the bottom of my Discussion Page at the frWiki (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion_utilisateur:Oiseau), if that can be of assistance to you as well. OiseauTemp (talk) 22:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

...My most humble pardons, but please may I ask some questions?

  • According to the bot below (which someone else initiated here a few days ago), I have met the qualifications for the rename on the enWiki. Does this mean we are in a 7 day waiting period now for the conversion from the time stamp on the bot?
  • I placed the global claim before the jpUser, and followed the protocol of contacting them. They never contacted me, but today I see that my homewiki has been changed from fr (which it was originally) to jp ... is something unethical going on somewhere?
  • Oiseau is the French word for bird. I would like to see the homewiki returned there, please.
  • Was a 3rd crat ever asked to help with this, as you suggested above?
  • ...The distilled version of this entire pursuit is I just want to synchronize my edits between my accounts at the Meta, the Commons, the enWiktionary, the FrWiki, and the enWiki, which is the only missing link. I placed my request well in advance on an account that is dormant/abandoned and followed all the rules that I could find. Just peeking in here to see if there is anything else you need, or just see if there is anything in motion, and if it is still a few days more in a waiting period. Thanks OiseauTemp (talk) 11:18, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If the jpwiki user is actively editing, there should be no problem getting an answer from him/her on whether he/she minds your taking this account. If he/she doesn't mind, then I have no problem with it, certainly. — Dan | talk 17:05, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

-Hello Dan, and thanks for looking at this and your gracious comment. If you or anyone else might be able to contact them, it would be also appreciated. I have not had success contacting this person previously via email or their talk page, but I am trying again, first via email, as of today.
OiseauTemp (talk) 08:16, 14 September 2009 (UTC) - (Just a small note to update.. two emails sent, one in English and one in Japanese)... OiseauTemp (talk) 07:19, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've clarified your request on his jpwiki talk page. With luck he'll reply soon with a yes or no. — Dan | talk 04:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

.. - Thanks Dan. If he/she doesn't respond soon, we can just drop it and file it, and let the enWiki Oiseau just remain as it is, if you please. That is unless you feel enough time will have elapsed to complete the Changing Username for me at that point.

Two things also I've been wondering, just thinking out loud here for a moment.. I keep kicking myself for not going ahead with filing my own SUL when I was considering it a few days before the jp user. I was under the impression that if other people were actively using the names, you either could not or should not encroach on them. I was not aware you could file it and the software would still initiate the process on unclaimed accounts.
Here is the evidence that I was going to claim the global SUL of Oiseau nearly a week before the jp user, but I did not push because I did not know I could do so at that point.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Changing_username/SUL/Rejected/3#None_.28SUL_request.29_.E2.86.92_Oiseau (it is in the rejected file only because I withdrew it and didn't pursue it).
The other thing I've been kicking myself about is that I keep wondering if I might actually be the enWiki user but lost my password years ago. I can't be certain though and I've been looking at a few old computers to see if I can find any records of that ;P ..Thanks again anyways for your modest vigil, and I guess I will check back here to see how things are going after a day or two.
..Thanks again, OiseauTemp (talk) 23:24, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, Oiseau@jpwiki is unwilling to give up the account (see [1]). Sorry about this; SUL conflicts are very frustrating. Let me know if you'd like another username, and I'll take care of it. — Dan | talk 01:59, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dan... Thank you again for your concern. The most frustrating thing in all this is simply the way it feels very one-sided, as if no one is requiring the same of the jp user as has been required of me.

- in order to initiate global unification, the interface says that one must login at the home wiki. I owned the home wiki last month... when was that given away without asking me?, even though I've had to ask the jp user for a blessing re: the en wiki (which is not even theirs, and we still never got a response from them until you asked them)
- the jp user never contacted me before taking my home wiki from my fr account... when did this happen and how did it happen and why didn't they have to ask me, as I've been waiting and waiting and having to ask them for this and that? Didn't I follow the protocols, and why didn't they?
- the clue bot said I met all qualifications for my request, to ONLY claim the en wiki, but it hasn't happened. I think the fair thing would be to deliver on that request, or if it remains in dispute, to leave the account alone.

re: having another user name... I'd love to know the answers to the above questions, but if they are too much bother to look into, I did say (near the beginning of this inquiry) that the name Oiseaux would be fine as an alternative (they have only made one small edit many years ago), but I am still left with a rather unfulfilled, betrayed feeling ... as I'd like to know where the missteps were, and if there was anything I could have done otherwise, or if perhaps something actually went wrong in the process (like giving away my home wiki without asking me) which could be fixed/reversed. OiseauTemp (talk) 18:28, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username meets the requirements for usurpation.
  • The current owner of the target username does not have an email address specified.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has 13 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 08:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 3, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 11, 2009.

BlueMoonlet2 → Tisco

BlueMoonlet2 (talk) 04:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I am actually established user BlueMoonlet. I would like to reclaim my old username (re-created yesterday), which I used for over two years until my rename in mid-2007, per discussion here. The target user page and talk page are already redirects to my own user page and talk page, and have been since my rename two years ago. --BlueMoonlet2 (talk) 04:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is to confirm that it is actually me making this request. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 04:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • This user was created less than 6 months ago, such usernames may not be usurped. You can file another request when the username is older than 6 months.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has 1 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 08:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 4, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 12, 2009.

Cherryguy13 → Cherryguy93

Cherryguy13 (talk) 21:37, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
this username is easier for me to remember

 Bureaucrat note: Please clarify what you want. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 08:25, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 8, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 16, 2009.

Dalejenkins → Dale

There is a User:Dale on the English Wikipedia, thought that account has no edits (so this request should really be at WP:CHU/U). There are also users called Dale on other projects - the one with most edits contributes to the Japanese language Wikipedia. Are you User:Dale on the Japanese language Wikipedia? WJBscribe (talk) 17:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If I am reading the language right, the jawiki Dale hasn't edited since 2007, so I doubt they are the same person. MBisanz talk 17:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note:
  • The target username meets the requirements for usurpation.
  • The current owner of the target username does not have an email address specified.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has 5954 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 08:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I personally would not perform this request. Rights to the global account lie with a user on jawiki, who therefore has the best claim to usurp the name here. I would not perform a rename where this will have the effect of changing priorities for a global account, and of creating an additional cross-wiki conflict for that account. I don't like the idea of making a contrary decision based on the activity of that user without knowing how the jawiki community and bureaucrat feel about usurpation. However, as other bureaucrats have expressed contrary views, I will not decline it. WJBscribe (talk) 22:04, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I tend to take these global claim intrusion requests on a case-by-case basis. In this case, slightly over 50 edits were made more than two years ago. This strikes me as a significantly long period – long enough to allow the infringement of the global claim. I do recall declining a request with a similar number of edits and one year of inactivity – again, it's a case-by-case operation that hinges on bureaucrat discretion and a weighted evaluation of the facts. Since a bureaucrat has expressed hesitancy, I'd encourage other bureaucrats to refrain from performing the rename until we have further bureaucrat input. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 00:58, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 9, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 17, 2009.

Mking1977 → Martin King

Mking1977 (talk) 05:40, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username meets the requirements for usurpation.
  • The current owner of the target username does not have an email address specified.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has 28 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 05:43, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Bureaucrat note: You should be aware of three things:
  1. Accounts are for one person only.
  2. You have a conceded conflict of interest. It is imperative that you make sure it doesn't show when you edit. Please also read Wikipedia:Single-purpose account.
  3. There are dangers associated with the use of a real name on Wikipedia; are you comfortable with this?
Please indicate that you have read and understood. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 14:30, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

danielricardo.santos → danielrs

Danielricardo.santos (talk) 11:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would like the "danielrs" username so I can unify my en.wikipedia.org login with my pt.wikipedia.org login

Note:
  • The target username has made edits to Wikipedia. Due to licensing concerns, this may be a barrier to usurpation.
  • User has 1 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 1 total edits. Requesting user has 2 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 11:55, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Googlevoice → Global Voice

∙ AJChamtalk 15:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Clerk note: Stated reason for request: "Prompted by Wikipedia." Moved from WP:CHU. ∙ AJChamtalk 15:21, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note:
 Bureaucrat note: Right, but in this case the edits are not GFDL significant, so it can be done in the requisite seven days. MBisanz talk 18:53, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Either way, the target username is still of a promotional nature. –Juliancolton | Talk 04:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 10, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 18, 2009.

Drive Media → anselm98

Drive Media (talk) 12:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username meets the requirements for usurpation.
  • The current owner of the target username does not have an email address specified.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 12:18, 10 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 11, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 19, 2009.

Nick Stenning → WhiteInk

Nick Stenning (talk) 13:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username meets the requirements for usurpation.
  • The current owner of the target username does not have an email address specified.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has 12 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 13:15, 11 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Done —Anonymous DissidentTalk 16:22, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 12, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 20, 2009.

Emmasep → SR1973

Javért  |  Talk 04:47, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Done —Anonymous DissidentTalk 13:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ant2387 → Paul2387

pday2387 (talk) 21:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username has made edits to Wikipedia. Due to licensing concerns, this may be a barrier to usurpation.
  • The target username has Wikipedia user logs entries. Due to licensing concerns, this may be a barrier to usurpation.
  • User has 5 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 5 total edits. Requesting user has 229 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 21:17, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 13, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 21, 2009.

maadllc → bigbill

Maad LLC (talk) 09:10, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username meets the requirements for usurpation.
  • The current owner of the target username does not have an email address specified.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 09:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Clerk note: I have notified the target username. Regards, Javért ☆ 04:55, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To be done tomorrow. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 13:04, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 15, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 23, 2009.

Doreenmiffys → ultimaviiipaganorigin

Doreenmiffys (talk) 02:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Clerk note: User "Ultimaviiipaganorigin" is not registered. Please see WP:CHU instead. ClueBot VI (talk) 02:21, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hexagon1 → Happenstance

+Hexagon1 14:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username meets the requirements for usurpation.
  • The current owner of the target username does not have an email address specified.
  • User has 0 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 0 total edits. Requesting user has 7927 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 14:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 16, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 24, 2009.

policyofmankind → evolutionofmankind

Olusegun 00:00, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


I just realized that my current Username do not denotes any meaning,so i am requesting for a change to it.

 Clerk note: User "Evolutionofmankind" is not registered. Please see WP:CHU instead. ClueBot VI (talk) 00:02, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Princewill esara PRINCEWILL ESARA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.222.208.83 (talk) 14:20, 16 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Clerk note: I believe this is a malformatted and likely misplaced request and have asked the original editor to confirm this on his account's talk page. -- Soap Talk/Contributions 23:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 17, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 25, 2009.

Disciples History → Disciples of Christ Historical Society

Disciples History (talk) 17:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Clerk note: User "Disciples of Christ Historical Society" is not registered. Please see WP:CHU instead. ClueBot VI (talk) 18:00, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Clerk note: I was going to move this to WP:CHU, but don't really see a need as this request is going to get a {{notdone}} anyway, since the username is against the username policy. Could a 'crat mark this as {{notdone}} so that the bot will archive it? Thanks and regards, Javért ☆ 21:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Golden2001 → Bshumate5

 On hold - I'm corresponding with this user regarding his request. — Dan | talk 23:59, 17 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note:
  • The target username has made edits to Wikipedia. Due to licensing concerns, this may be a barrier to usurpation.
  • User has 18 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 18 total edits. Requesting user has 4 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 08:45, 8 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 19, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 27, 2009.

Michael.silverton → Silverton

Javért ☆ 08:18, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reason: Consistency with web-wide handle @silverton on twitter, @silverton on dozens and dozens of r
Note:
  • The target username has made edits to Wikipedia. Due to licensing concerns, this may be a barrier to usurpation.
  • User has 4 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 4 total edits. Requesting user has 4 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 08:15, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Clerk note: Moved from WP:CHU, edits are not GFDL significant and have notified target username. Regards, Javért ☆ 08:18, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

September 21, 2009

Requests left here will be filled no earlier than September 29, 2009.

Afrikaner Broadcasting Corporation → Editor

Afrikaner Broadcasting Corporation (talk) 19:19, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note:
  • The target username has made edits to Wikipedia. Due to licensing concerns, this may be a barrier to usurpation.
  • User has 3 undeleted edits, 0 deleted edits, and 3 total edits. Requesting user has 19 edits. ClueBot VI (talk) 19:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

DonMadders → CiaoWebDesign

DonMadders (talk) 20:36, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

 Clerk note: User "CiaoWebDesign" is not registered. Please see WP:CHU instead. ClueBot VI (talk) 20:37, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Clerk note: Would move this to WP:CHU, however the requested username is against the username policy. Please choose another name. Regards, Javért ☆ 23:09, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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