Talk:Theodore Roosevelt

Template:WP1.0

Cabinet of President T Roosevelt not shown.

Virtually every Wiki article on US Presidents includes the complete listing of the President's cabinet, showing their terms of office, etc. The TR article has no mention of his cabinet(s). Shouldn't it be included?

I found a useful looking starting pointing at a convenient www site: http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1435.html

Full maiden name of First Lady

The full maiden name of First Lady Roosevelt was Edith Kermit Carow, but the linked article has her as Edith Roosevelt, so my change was obvious. --65.73.0.137

Roosevelt´s travel to Brazil

In 1901 or 1904, Roosevelt joined an expetition led by Candido Mariano Rondon to the countryside of Brazil in which they discovered a river. Based on this trip he wrote ´Through Brazilian Wilderness`. In an issue of ´The New York Times´ released in 1991 or 1992, it is said that Roosevelt had contracted a tropical disease while in Brazil.utiouiopj;ui;ouio;

This is the first time I´m editing. I hope this information will be useful, and i hope you say YAYAYA

Food and Drug Administration

Theodore Roosevelt was instrumental in setting legislative courses in motion that would eventually lead to the advent of the Food and Drug Administration. He did so after a combination of two experiences: his time in Cuba with the US Army, where he saw many of his men get disgustingly sick on badly preserved meat rations supplied by American firms (who supplied the forces on a bid system similar to today's); and Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle. Roosevelt was often swayed by literature, and also by his personal experiences in the military. The two combined served as a mighty motivation in his food and drug policies. -- Benn M. 22:55, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)

Small question

There is no mention of Roosvelt's eccentric coffee drinking why is that? I was watching the History channel and it was mentioned, I went and looked on Wikipedia to clarify and it is not here! I found it on some other websites though. Apparently, he drank up to 1 gallon of coffee a day, I think that is worth noting. I have never edited a wiki entry, and would rather not mess anything up that everyone worked so hard on and I'm not even sure if most of you would consider adding this. Anyways, I will leave it up to the main contributors of this article whether to add this small detail or not. Thanks!

Answer: You're absolutely right on the coffee. In the "TR Rex" bio, Morris mentions TR's breakfasts "laced as usual by vast infusions of caffeine, served only to stoke Roosevelt's energy." pg 17-18. Interesting point. Let's add it under interesting facts. SimonATL 1:10, 23 Feb 2006 (UTC)

Addendum: The quote used by Maxwell House Coffee, "Good To The Last Drop", is a quote from Theodore Roosevelt, who, having stopped in to a roadside home and been given a cup of coffee, made this remark as a compliment to the hostess and the coffee she had brewed.

Actually, that house was near the ancestral home of US president Andrew Jackson in Tenessee.

References: History Channel's "The Presidents" (1825-1849) [1]

[2] [3]

Added better quality photos and other pages on parents, sister and daughter

I think its important to show photos that emphasize TR's vigorous and bellicose nature because they went into the making who he was. Also added photos to TR's first wife, Alice and his first daughter, Alice. Added pages with photos of both Roosevel's mother, Martha (Mittie) Bulloch Roosevelt and his father Theodore, Sr. Please continue to edit for clarity and content. Thanks SimonATL 8:10, 20 Feb 2006 (UTC)

Agreed.64.0.112.9 (talk) 04:14, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Bully for TR!

To honor such a significant person with an exquisite article is most encouraging. CHAARRGE!

Article not found

I can't access the TR article..

"Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name." is all I get. Even when I click the link on the main page.

However, some of the older versions work.

Also, I tried to fix the thing with the picture not showing, and it worked in the preview but I couldn't save.

Editing of page

Just thought I'd make a point that someone has spammed this page. Regard the first line

I Recieved A Message About Vandalizing This Page

I just wanted to ask what was it that was spammed? I don't believe I have ever made any contributions to this article and I apparently have recieved 3 warnings since June of 2006. I have barely started editing articles on Wikipedia around September. Is this an error, I really don't want to get banned or anything especially when it is not my fault. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Clow987 (talk • contribs) 16:30, 12 November 2006.

What?

Ok thanks. I didnt know it would ever actually work. :( —Preceding unsigned

I am doing a report on Theodore Roosevelt at scool. Great amount of info!

Foreign Policy

Would anyone mind if I were to add a bit about the resolution of the Venezuela crisis, which essentially precipitated the Roosevelt Corrollary to the Monroe Doctrine. It is really a marvelous bit of diplomacy. There are features of TR's foreign policy that demonstrate a mastery of "speak softly" as opposed to the dominant view of his "big stick" attitude.

Quigonpaj (talk) 15:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Race Section

I'm slightly concerned that the section regarding TR's views on race paints a skewed picture of the guy. He's almost portrayed as a nasty, bigoted racist, when he was actually quite progressive for his time. Much of his views that seem despicable now are better understood within the context of his views of evolution, believing that the "negro race" (sorry if that comes off as being offensive) was simply behind the white race, and needed to promote and encourage its most successful members to "catch up." He spoke very often of treating each person on their merits, regardless of color, and was outspoken in his support for Japanese immigrants against discrimination. I've written something I'd like to add to the section, but I fear it might focus too much of the overall article on the issue of race. I also think the "Views on Race" section should be moved farther down the article underneath the "Character and Beliefs section." Any thoughts on that?

Anyway, here is what I wanted to add as a point of clarification to the race section. Is it too long?

Much of Roosevelt’s views on race, many of which are unacceptable in today’s society, should be taken in the context of the time. His attitudes were rooted in the emerging zeitgeist of evolutionary thought of the period. Influenced by Darwin, Lamarck, and Le Bon, Roosevelt felt that the black race was collectively inferior to whites, but that those blacks who distinguished themselves should be afforded every right and privilege of their white counterparts. He felt that the equality for the black race would come through progress from one generation to the next. [Morris, Theodore Rex, 2001, 52-54] While, in today’s world, such an attitude might be considered abominable, he was lauded by liberal whites, and was received as the usher of a new era in the black community[Theodore Rex, 54]. William McGill, a black preacher in Tennessee, wrote that “The Administration of President Roosevelt is to the Negro what the heart is to the body. It has pumped life blood into every artery of the Negro in this country.”[ Theodore Rex, 2001, 200]. Even Pope Leo XIII remarked approvingly of TR’s determination “to seek equality of treatment of all the races.” [Robinson, My Brother, 47, 2/15/1903]

He wrote to a friend that, regarding the difficult issue of race relations, “the only wise and honorable and Christian thing to do is to treat each black man and each white man strictly on his merits as a man.”[ TR to Albion W. Tourgee, 11/08/1901, Letters, vol. 3, 190-191] Additionally, Roosevelt risked outrage (and perhaps physical harm) while speaking to a heavily-armed crowd in Butte, Montana during his 1903 Western tour: “I fought beside colored troops at Santiago, and I hold that if a man is good enough to be put up and shot at then he is good enough for me to do what I can to get him a square deal.”[ Theodore Rex, Edmund Morris, 2001, 233]

Perhaps his attitude is best understood in comparison to those of others in his time, who accused him of “mingling and mongrelization” of the white race, and notably of Benjamin Tillman, Senator of South Carolina, who commented on Roosevelt dining with Booker T. Washington as such: “The action of President Roosevelt in entertaining that [n-word] will necessitate our killing a thousand [n-words] in the South before they learn their place again.” [Theodore Rex, Edmund Morris, 2001, 55] He was also mocked in a Washington Post cartoon of his famous “teddy bear” hunt, showing him turning in disgust while a white hunter drags a very black bear by a rope around the neck.[ Theodore Rex, Edmund Morris, 2001, 173]

Other examples of Roosevelt’s opposition to racism including proceeding with the court-martial and dismissal of General Jake Smith, who publicly advocated racial genocide in the Phillipines.[ Theodore Rex, Edmund Morris, 2001, 127] He also spoke out against those whites who exacerbated the racist “Yellow Peril,” remarking passionately about the positive qualities of the Japanese to Congress, and referring to Japan as “one of the greatest of civilized nations.”[ Theodore Rex, Edmund Morris, 2001, 483]

The section on race is not balanced and the information above needs to be added to it. TR was a product of his times, but he was far more progressive on race than most people of his time. That needs to be brought out in the article. His racially-tinged statements need to be put within the context of the times. SimonATL (talk) 13:02, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

I second the motion. I just added the above information to the article. It is not encyclopedic to hide every positive race thing TR did just because TR was wrong for today's wiser standards Arosa (talk) 12:49, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I like the section, but I think using "[n-word]" when the original quote uses the actual word is not okay. WP:CENSOR. IronDuke 22:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

It is a bit long, and should be trimmed, but I do think that there needs to be a more balanced inclusion of quotes and anecdotes than what are currently in the article. Or, perhaps it should link to another article "Roosevelt's Views on Race"? Quigonpaj (talk) 15:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Please fix the table at the bottom -- TR became President in 1901, as it says at the top !! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.37.66.13 (talk) 22:29, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I know that the maniac-"You're-A-Racist!" crowd is a large one so I'm not going to bother to amend this article just to see it reversed three seconds later but I'd be remiss if I didn't note for posterity the utterly ridiculous fact that in a relatively tiny article about one of the most extraordinary public figures in all of American history there's a prominent section well high up in the article entitled "Views on Race".

Don't get me wrong. As a reality-biased individual I'm not interested in seeing these quotes vanish down a memory hole. They just aren't remotely important enough to be included (and so prominently!) in an article of this length.

As a disclaimer I should note that I personally believe it altogether possible that the average Japanese has inherently greater mathematical ability (environmental factors being equal) than the average Pygmy. I see no reason for us to assume that cranial evolution decided to cease when all other forms of evolution continued apace - particularly when faced with overwhelming evidence to the effect that it HAS continued to a worthy-of-mention degree. BUT - even if history DOES bear me out (in a mixed-race future perhaps where everyone will be descended from the same ancestral mongrelized stock) and the (seeming) fact of human differences is yawningly accepted and undisputed, I would protest some future wikipedia taking too great a note of the many extraordinary folk of our day who happen to have been on "the wrong side" of this (or any particular) issue. In general, what I'm protesting is the view of many annoying self-righteous activists who believe that any and every issue must first and foremost be looked at through some particular lense or another. By the moral standards of any particular time or place Theodore Roosevelt's life and personality undoubtedly include both laudable and condemnable details but to choose any particular one to thrust up so highly in a tiny piece about this fascinating giant of a man is to assault truth to an unforgivable degree. - m —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.13.143.121 (talk) 11:29, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

This article may be too long?

I saw the too long tag on the article and did some measurements. I used Firebug_(Firefox_extension) to get total size and download time for a fast broadband connection (so time depends on wikimedia server bandwidth).

• Theodore Roosevelt 731 KB total, 16 seconds
• George H. W. Bush 380 KB, 18 seconds
• Bill Clinton 738 KB, 16 seconds

The actual HTML part of each article (not including the images, javascript and CSS) is around 90 Kilobytes, so most of the contribution to the slow loading of these articles is not due to the text. It is due to images, references, and the navigation templates at the bottom.

I also used wikipedia's Page Size gadget to get the prose size:

• Theodore Roosevelt 61 kB (10114 words)
• George H. W. Bush 41 kB (6768 words)
• Bill Clinton 49 kB (7869 words)

That's as far as I got before wikimedia servers reported problems. Even though the figures might look not so good for Theodore Roosevelt's article, I don't think it should be split for readability reasons alone (i.e. I did not find it arduous to read). If the too long tag is intended to alert editors that it's taking too long to load (and must be impossible for a dial-up user), I would agree, but most Featured Articles have this problem and the solution lies not in cutting the text but in severely pruning the templates (and maybe reduce the actual byte-size of the image thumnbnails). Maybe split the navigation templates to a subpage? I hope this helps. -84user (talk) 17:59, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I highly disagree. This page is too small. Please add more information peoples. Thank you. 209.68.139.250 (talk) 17:44, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

I'd have to disagree as well, I wouldn't say it's too small, but its a good amount of length, and it is indepth without being boring, lets keep it

Health care

The beginning of the article makes claims about Roosevelt and universal health care, but I do not see where this is discussed in the article proper. Am I missing something? 65.6.60.78 (talk) 14:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Republican party rift

The following sentence occurs in the first paragraph of the Republican Party Rift section: "When Roosevelt realized that lowering the tariff would risk severe tensions inside the Republican Party—pitting producers (manufacturers and farmers) against merchants and consumers—he stopped talking about the issue."

This sentence starts a discussion about some tariff, without having mentioned anywhere in that section what tariff they are referring to. It looks as if somehow in the editing process, there was a disconnect introduced between the section up to this sentence, and the remainder of this section. I don't know enough about the subject to fix it, but as a reader I found it confusing. --MisterSquirrel 01:19, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Criticism?

Looking through this article, I am exteremely surprised to find almost no criticism of Teddy, except for the 'Views on race' section, which someone even tried to get deleted or washed down as per above. There has to be some criticism he received somewhere, which should be brough to light. I do agree he was a great man, but the article seems to be severly lacking in balance. 74.95.169.158 (talk) 01:32, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Good points, but I've tried to expand the articl to include criticism of his actions including some of his clearly disingenuous statements to the press following the 1885 Republican Convention, pointed out by Henry Pringle, TR's severest critic. I will also, soon be adding the criticisms pointed out by John Morton Blum in his short but excellent work, "The Republican Roosevelt." SimonATL (talk) 01:56, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Error in the Margin

The margin says that Roosevelt was in office from 1901 to 1901. I believe it is 1901 to 1909? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.202.182.54 (talk) 13:44, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I think you are looking at the Vice Presidential dates. He was Vice President from March 1901 to September 1901 and then when William McKinley died in Sept 1901 he became President and was President until 1909. Those dates are there also. A new name 2008 (talk) 13:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Quote not actually found in referenced article

this quote: "Ladies and gentlemen, I don't know whether you fully understand that I have just been shot; but it takes more than that to kill a Bull Moose."[72] is supposedly from the [72] reference page, but it is actually not to be found there.--132.69.238.217 (talk) 20:08, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Presidency 1901 - 1909

This article indicates that TR did not use a Bible for his inauguration and is footnoted as #46.

At this US Senate site http://inaugural.senate.gov/history/chronology/troosevelt1905.cfm it says that he used the same Bible he took his oath of office as NY Governor in 1898, and that it was opened to James 1:22-23.

It's an official Senate history site, so shouldn't that be taken as a primary source?

Ktho64152 (talk) 00:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

First book published - The Naval War of 1812

The first book published section is written in terribly poor English from the very first sentence ("While at Harvard, the [sic] Roosevelt began a systematic study..."). I would fix it, but I can't edit the page, and the quality of the language frankly leads me to doubt the quality of the content contained therein. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.215.114 (talk) 23:22, 3 November 2008 (UTC)