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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Gwillhickers (talk | contribs) at 22:36, 18 November 2024 (→Substituting one conspiracy theory for another?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

"Misinformation" adjective should be removed

the vaccine is a topic of contention. Sources cited n this entry tend to lean toward pro vaccine and politically left opinion. To blanket state that he is a proponent of "misinformation" is biased opinion, not fact. He and his family are vaccinated. The fact that he has stated that all vaccines should be carefully tested or that he questions potential vaccine risks is not misinformation. It's a difference of opinion. Shame on you Wikipedia for allowing real misinformation from your contributors. This is not supposed to be a forum to slander people based on political bias. Bkintz (talk) 10:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read the FAQ at the top of this Talk page. --Hob Gadling (talk) 13:44, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And the article it links to is unbalanced, and written like propaganda. J.P.Dill (talk) 10:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What is "the article it links to"? Regarding "balanced": please read WP:FALSEBALANCE. We do not give equal time to obvious falsehoods, even if they are not obvious to User:J.P.Dill. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:53, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree Секретное общество (talk) 20:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose of this page is to use reasoning about how to improve the page. "I agree" is a vote, not reasoning. It does not belong here. See WP:!VOTE. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:23, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the RFK Jr page is bias. It won't follow the standards that it sets everyone else, and uses wording that is opinionated rather than informative, and then to add protection so that the page cannot be edited. It would be interesting to know who the composer of the article was, and why they were allowed to write the article in this way. The page should either remove its opinions of Wikipedia MUST remove it altogether. ContributorAcademia1 (talk) 14:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Misinformation" isn't an opinion. AntiDionysius (talk) 00:00, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely agree 152.42.47.196 (talk) 23:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anti Vaccine is false

Subject matter is reliably sourced, nothing else to discuss. Zaathras (talk) 15:27, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RFK Jr told Congress that he has followed the vaccine schedule and is fully vaccinated with the exception of Covid which he believes needs to be held to the same scrutiny that the other vaccines are held to. It is extremely misleading to say he is anti-vax when he and his family have had their vaccinations. 24.40.228.32 (talk) 04:06, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read the FAQ at the top of this Talk page. --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:34, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Anonymous poster is correct. You are simply wrong, Hob Gadling. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuQ8Bv330C0 — Foxtrot1296 (talk) 06:55, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Things like this have been discussed a thousand times before; please see the FAQ. — Czello (music) 07:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And they will be discussed a thousand times more. The FAQ isn't responding to questions or criticism by individual commenters, it is designed to evade them. Same goes for catchphrases like "contentious topic" or "consensus." Because of this, many of my friends, acquaintances and I have come to the conclusion that Wikipedia can't be trusted for political, contemporary or societal topics. 2003:C1:CF21:521B:F420:2A2:3785:1E8E (talk) 03:35, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus is how Wikipedia works. You can challenge the existing consensus, but you'll have to bring new arguments that address what's already been agreed. — Czello (music) 07:06, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
kennedy is not anti-vax nor is he racist. This is blatantly false and is spreading misinformation. 2600:1014:B137:3A4A:5CF1:AEFF:FEDB:427C (talk) 18:14, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that anti-vaccine is false and including it in the profile seems strikingly against NPOV — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.37.101.22 (talk)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024

Asked and answered. Zaathras (talk) 22:38, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Delete Anti vaccine and conspiracy theorist. It is not accurate and it most certainly should not be in the introductory sentence. 2601:58B:C600:1A40:64AD:5F9C:6E6D:A1F6 (talk) 07:00, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. Those are his most important attributes, they are accurate and well-sourced. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:27, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's a political opinion and the sources are articles in magazines based on opinions. "Anti vaccine" suggests he opposes all vaccines and that is NOT factual. "Conspiracy theorist" is an empty accusation to frame him. Stop your misinformation. Trump has won and the reign of medical fascism is over. 2A0D:3344:8D2:9100:BC09:AB38:7A7B:343B (talk) 22:31, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This is blatantly biased and needs serious reformation.

See FAQ #1 and #2 above. Zaathras (talk) 22:39, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Kennedy is not a conspiracy theorist nor is he antivaccine. He is just for better regulation of vaccines. 199.254.158.246 (talk) 17:11, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See every other discussion we've had about this on this page and in the archives. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
None of them deal with the issue that Wikipedia is a source of misinformation in this. Clearly in the number of reactions there is absolutely no consensus. 2A0D:3344:8D2:9100:BC09:AB38:7A7B:343B (talk) 22:32, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024 (2)

Just wanted to change “is a candidate” to “was” 2601:19A:4300:50D0:3CEC:106E:66BE:B97C (talk) 23:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Appears to have been completed already. Zaathras (talk) 00:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for review: Potential bias and lack of impartiality in the introduction

I believe the current wording of the introduction regarding RFK Jr.'s stance on COVID-19 vaccines could be more neutral. I suggest rephrasing it to: "RFK Jr. is a prominent figure in the anti-vaccine movement, and his organization, Children's Health Defense, has been criticized for promoting misinformation about COVID-19 vaccines." I believe this wording accurately reflects the information from the source while avoiding potentially biased language. Cloudy024 (talk) 22:15, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. Sources are not watered down because of hurt feelings. Zaathras (talk) 23:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
you will find sources claiming Trump is an insurrectionist. Does that mean Trump should be introduced in the first paragraph as "45th president and insurrectionist"? Of course not. Take this clear left wing bias OUT. 98.45.134.246 (talk) 12:05, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sources are considered in aggregation. If there was clear and wide spread labeling of Trump as such, then yes, the insurrectionist label would appear more prominently there, though probably attributed to the sources rather than stated directly. Here, a great many reliable sources cover RFK's beliefs as antivaxxer fringe science, thus the article reflects that. Zaathras (talk) 13:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What's noteworthy is not that his organization "has been criticized" for promoting misinformation. What's noteworthy is that is organization has promoted misinformation. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. I second this. Carlstak (talk) 23:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is entirely misinformed

anti vaccine to be replaced by Safe Vaccine Activist, proven by his lawsuit.

Conspiracy theorist to be replaced by critical thinker and governing system critique and challenger - proven by his Fisheries and water safety work.

From a democratic family, however recently supports republican vote point due to against the democrats view on censorship and free speech. Blatantly goes against democracy. 61.245.134.123 (talk) 14:27, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussed numerous times before, see the #FAQ. — Czello (music) 14:30, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 November 2024

This article appears yo have a lot of opinions. There's no evidence that RFK is a conspiracy theorist or that he was the leading proponent for COVID 19 misinformation. Wikipedia should remain unbiased. 2600:1700:2303:B400:E3B8:D650:7C7B:C2 (talk) 14:33, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Dicussed numerous times before; see the #FAQ. — Czello (music) 14:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not going to lie, how many of these posts need to happen before we continue to change? It's simple verbiage and people clearly are not happy about it Envyforme (talk) 22:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Last time I checked, we still operated by WP:RS and not by "complaining IPs". There are lots of facts on WP some users are not happy about, but that is no reason to change it. Jeppiz (talk) 23:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the whole IP thing, but if people are upset because of verbiage, I believe it comes to a time to change it so it's a bit more accurate. Envyforme (talk) 22:02, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is accurate. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Biased

CLOSING
Where have we heard this before? Read the FaQ Babysharkboss2!! (Banned Another Day) 19:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article is entirely biased and almost defamatory 107.115.41.134 (talk) 18:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This page is not composed following Wikipedia standards. It is bias and opinionated in its language. It is also slanderous, because it clearly leans to one side and then labels RFK Jr. with its opinions, which are damaging because of the negative connotation.

CLOSING BULLCRAP
I probably should just delete this, but whatever. Babysharkboss2!! (Banned Another Day) 14:21, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Yes, the RFK Jr page is bias. It won't follow the standards that it sets everyone else, and uses wording that is opinionated rather than informative, and then to add protection so that the page cannot be edited. It would be interesting to know who the composer of the article was, and why they were allowed to write the article in this way. The page should either remove its opinions of Wikipedia MUST remove it altogether. ContributorAcademia1 (talk) 14:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Political party

Political party Republican (2025- present) should be added ahead of time. 2604:3D09:D89:6D00:6427:A3D7:7EA3:80D1 (talk) 06:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a source that he's joined the Republican party, or intends to? Note that one doesn't need to be a member of a party to serve in its government. — Czello (music) 08:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He's independent and hasn't continued to swap to Republicans like Gabbard did Envyforme (talk) 22:09, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RFK Jr. is "not enrolled in a party" according to https://voterlookup.elections.ny.gov/. GordonGlottal (talk) 00:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Article now says Libertarian party, sourced from a November 14 tweet from the Libertarian party claiming Jr. as one of their own. However Jr. was a candidate of many parties, and I think noneof them were Libertarian. Jr. was rejected at the Libertarian convention, with only 2% of the vote. Absent any reliable secondary sourcing, and not even a statement from Jr. himself, I'm going to remove this. -- M.boli (talk) 12:06, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's possible he had signed up but canceled after they parted ways, like Sanders.--Cbls1911 (talk) 20:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Beginning of paragraph 2 of "Vaccines and autism claims" misuses source

The wiki page says "Kennedy and Children's Health Defense have falsely claimed that vaccines cause autism."

But the source cited doesn't say this, it says "Mr. Kennedy is chairman of the board of Children’s Health Defense. Its website ties the increase in chronic childhood conditions such as asthma, autism and diabetes to a range of factors, including environmental toxins, pesticides and vaccines."

This is an incorrect use of the source, really the website mentioned in the article is what should be cited but from the nyt article it's unclear if autism is being said to be linked to vaccines. Unless there's an actual source for this it should be be promptly removed LachlanTheUmUlGiTurtle (talk) 15:42, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also it's never sourced anywhere that Kennedy made the claim himself, only that children's health made the claim. Another reason to remove it. LachlanTheUmUlGiTurtle (talk) 15:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Citation citation added from FactCheck.org: What RFK Jr. Gets Wrong About Autism. -- M.boli (talk) 19:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disinformation in Russian invasion of Ukraine template discussion

@M.boli You mentioned RFK Jr. has echoed propaganda memes in relation to Russia. This may be true, but the section on his stances of foreign affairs does not mention this anywhere, which is why I removed the template. It is mentioned he opposes intervention in the Russo-Ukrainian war, which is a stance more favorable to Russia, but there is no mention of this stance being active disinformation nor an implicit or explicit support of Russia. Let me know your take on this, thanks. Slothwizard (talk) 21:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

After thinking about it further, I'm on the fence a bit about including the see-also.
RFK Jr'.s claim about slaughter of Russians in Donbas comes directly from Russian disinfo. There is currently a wikilink within that paragraph to the Russian disinformation article. I saw this link (which admittedly is an easter egg) before re-inserting the see-also to Russian disinfo operations. But I should have checked further.
Other claims of his, e.g. the 2014 Revolution of Dignity was actually a U.S. coup against Ukraine, are also well-known Russian propaganda. But as you note there is no sourcing for that. Absent any sources in the article showing Jr. is repeating Russian propaganda the see-also link is probably OR and should go. I completely agree with you on that.
A short amount of google-searching does reveal a few sources. Here is one example, a WaPo fact check.[1] These analyses linking RFK Jr. to Russian propaganda would need to be edited into the paragraph before the see-also is supported. And it might be complicated or the sources aren't good enough. So I'm a bit on the fence. Unless and until such sources are added, I'm OK with admitting a mistake and removal of the the see-also. -- M.boli (talk) 22:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks! As it is currently worded, I will remove the see also. Let me know if anything Slothwizard (talk) 23:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Kessler, Glenn (May 8, 2024). "RFK Jr.'s 'history lesson' on Russia's invasion of Ukraine flunks the fact test". Washington Post.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2024

Please edit source number 240 to point to Robert F. Kennedy Jr: CIA, Power, Corruption, War, Freedom, and Meaning | Lex Fridman Podcast #388 at timestamp 1:55:55 Aboutzero (talk) 18:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: WaPo is a WP:SECONDARYSOURCE. A podcast is a WP:PRIMARYSOURCE. We prefer secondary sources. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Substituting one conspiracy theory for another?

It's sort of amazing that so many editors are being ignored or brushed off with comments like "discussed before". What I've seen is the major media with the multi-billion dollar covid vaccine industry behind them trying to silence "conspiracies" with their own conspiracy theory, lumping them all together under the label of "misinformation", knowing that if both views were given equal treatment it would result in millions of potential vaccine sales lost. Follow the money. The vaccine was quickly developed, in a matter of months, and foisted on the world without enough time to make thorough evaluations. Scores of doctors, including Florida State Surgeon General, have expressed legitimate concerns over the covid vaccine and significant numbers of people have died or have experienced adverse effects. This is not theory but fact.

In any case, it is totally improper for the first sentence in the lede of a BLP to be asserting derogatory controversial opinion. Terms like "conspiracy theory" should be replaced with skeptical views, while the label of "misinformation" should be replaced with alternative views, esp since they have been expressed by many doctors and scientists. The campaign of censorship in what's supposed to be a free and open society, esp on Wikipedia, is troubling to say the least. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:29, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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