Talk:Carrie Fisher

Work on Star Wars prequels

The citation for this is a Yahoo article, since taken down: https://web.archive.org/web/20070818103950/http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/contributor/1800010395/bio

It doesn't actually back up this claim. It only credits her with working on 'The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles', and appearing on the red carpet for the prequel premieres.

If there is no actually primary source for this claim, it should be removed, as it's basically a slur given the atrocious quality of the prequel film scripts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel Earwicker (talk • contribs) 14:07, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

This corrupted version of the claim has unfortunately been copied in various other "news" sources now, probably based on this Wikipedia page. Often it is claimed that she was "said to be" involved in the scripts, e.g. a user-posted comment on IMDB. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel Earwicker (talk • contribs) 14:09, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Mental health and The Princess Diarist

At the end of the Mental health section is "In 2016, she released The Princess Diarist." I have not read the book. The publicity for it focuses on Fisher's disclosure of her 1976 affair with Harrison Ford. Does this autobiography also cover "mental health" aspects of Fisher's life? If so, it would be great if that could be added to the article along with page numbers from the book to better tie why this book is mentioned in the mental health section. --Marc Kupper|talk 18:43, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Tabloids

There are stories on tabloids about her having a massive heart attack. Not sure as not in any broad news yet. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:32, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

The most "reliable" source reporting this at the time of this comment would be this news station, which cites the the TMZ article. I wouldn't add it since I wouldn't consider it "broad news" yet, but I'd definitely keep an eye out on the situation. JudgeRM (talk to me) 21:39, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Update: the LA Times has reported on the heart attack. I'd consider the LA Times "broad news". More news sites are likely to follow. JudgeRM (talk to me) 21:46, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

I've added it. Many "broad" news agencies outside of tabloids are reporting on the situation now. JudgeRM (talk to me) 21:58, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

I've been watching this situation closely. Good news: she appears to be in stable condition now. JudgeRM (talk to me) 00:12, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Heart attack vs. cardiac arrest

While the headlines state that she had a "heart attack" (meaning a myocardial infarction), the actual text in the news reports don't corroborate that claim. Rather, it seems she went into cardiac arrest for reasons unknown. Most laypeople (including reporters) do not know the difference, but we should strive for accuracy. TompaDompa (talk) 23:55, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Until there is an official licensed medical statement, we do't know either (for sure). I suggest we wait for that statement. - Mlpearc (open channel) 00:03, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, at the moment the article states cardiac arrest but the one source now being used states heart attack, with no mention of cardiac arrest. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 00:40, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

That's nothing—The Huffington Post has one in the headline and the other in the body. Something like "heart trouble" is a possible alternative until something definitive comes along. —ATS 🖖 talk 00:54, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Fixed to "cardiac episode" as reported. —ATS 🖖 talk 01:05, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

The LAFD issued a statement that she had a cardiac arrest, more significant than a heart attack. (Scan down a few entries.) "Transported to a local hospital." - apparently UCLA Medical Center. https://twitter.com/i/moments/812408392148889600

As much as I hate to quote the Mirror, they are doing a timeline of updates and includes an audio of the pilot declaring the medical emergency to LAX. http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/carrie-fisher-heart-attack-latest-9509603

Fingers, toes, and eyes all crossed, Wordreader (talk) 08:38, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

"Stable condition"

Meantime, a common reporting error (THR and the AP got it wrong, too) is "stable condition". Medically, there is no such thing. Until further notice, Ms. Fisher is in critical condition with stable life signs. —ATS 🖖 talk 00:32, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Just to note, "stable" is not the same thing as "stabilized" - medically speaking. Rklawton (talk) 01:06, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Correct; I should have used "stabilized life signs". —ATS 🖖 talk 01:13, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I just read a Daily Mail article on her condition written by clueless reporters. For the record, it goes like this: ER -> stabilized -> ICU (or CICU for cardiac-specific care). [removed as per WP:BLP] See diff Rklawton (talk) 01:30, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Impossible to say, Rklawton; however, if someone attempted such conjecture within the article, you would revert and properly upbraid the editor, right? Right?! —ATS 🖖 talk 01:36, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

@ATS: According to a follow up interview with Variety she is decidedly NOT stabilising. Her brother has stated that right now he has no good news or bad news - she is in the ICU, out of the ER, but not in the CCU, which is where she would be if the condition was stabilised. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 02:52, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. —ATS 🖖 talk 02:58, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Oh heck no. I'd resist adding even published speculations in the article body. Folks read these articles at times like this because they want to cut through the crap, and they know they can get that here. I added my own thoughts above as an exercise in mental preparation. That is - be on the lookout for the news taking a 90 degree turn in this direction given the considerations noted. Rklawton (talk) 03:58, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Heart attack?

Interesting. People cites AP calling it a "massive heart attack".[1] And yet, the linked AP source[2] doesn't say word one about a "heart attack". Basically, People decided to add that little detail in all on their own. I think we should be very careful about sourcing the diagnosis, "heart attack", before we put it back in the article. Think of it this way, the only folks who can provide the "heart attack" diagnosis are her doctors following diagnostic tests, and they are bound by U.S. privacy laws. Only her family can release that information. As a result, any source that says she has had a heart attack that is not quoting her family is full of crap. Rklawton (talk) 04:14, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Precisely why I'd changed it. Welcome to the party. —ATS 🖖 talk 04:20, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

AP is reporting Carrie's brother as saying the cause is "unknown". TMZ (not especially reliable) is reporting anonymous sources (also not particularly encouraging) as saying it was a "heart attack".[3] Given a choice between a Hollywood rag citing anonymous sources and Carrie's brother who has a direct line to her doctors, I suggest we go with her brother's statements and wait for more. Rklawton (talk) 04:23, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

See the discussion about the medical event in the Sources section, below. And the article has been revised for greater accuracy!!Peter K Burian (talk) 17:47, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Sources

Can we eliminate entertainment rags as sources for this matter? TMZ, E!, Variety are all about sensationalism. I really don't think they have the boots on the ground like AP and other news agencies to actually gather and verify their news. By all appearances, they are just parroting and even embellishing what they're reading off the news wires. Rklawton (talk) 04:27, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Variety? The "entertainment bible" for more than a century? Our primer for newcomers specifically uses Variety. No offense, but have you lost your mind??! —ATS 🖖 talk 04:37, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm also getting a strong "drongo" feeling at the disparaging of Variety. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 04:58, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Dunno if I'd go that far ... —ATS 🖖 talk 05:10, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Meantime, TMZ often gets the flak it deserves, but gets credit for more "boots on the ground" at places like LAX and the county courthouse than anyone. —ATS 🖖 talk 04:49, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

So, in summation (so far): Rklawton has offered his opinion of the real cause of the emergency (violating TALK and BLP); chimed in re the heart attack/cardiac arrest issue three hours after I'd fixed it; and called Variety a "rag". I dunno what's in your egg nog, Robert, but I want some ... —ATS 🖖 talk 05:01, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

At the moment, it's a shot of espresso in my 'nog. The point I was trying to make is that we don't know the cause of her illness because no reliable source has published it nor could they because Carrie isn't speaking, her health care providers can not speak, and her brother who can speak has said very clearly that he does not know. Observations that the symptoms and her history also match overdose may have walked the line. Next, if you check the article's edit history, you'll see that after I posted here, I updated the article to remove heart attack. So while I'm glad you "fixed" the article, the fix didn't stay fixed, and my re-fixes and explanation were useful. Also note, I just re-re-fixed it as another editor just re-added massive heart attack to the article without supporting sources. In short, this is going to be an ongoing exercise in educating inexperienced editors about being leery of sources that are parroting and embellishing other sources. Rklawton (talk) 14:51, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Here's an example of a source more reliable than a trade rag. In this CNN article,[4] there is no mention of "massive heart attack" or "myocardial infarction". It cites the LAFD as responding to a "cardiac arrest". Just to be clear, cardiac arrest and heart attack are not the same thing. Per my example above, a drug overdose can also cause cardiac arrest - as could a stroke, a pulmonary embolism, and so on. Hence, I think it's important until we hear from a reliable source, to keep "heart attack" out of the article. Its inclusion is simply not yet supported. Rklawton (talk) 15:17, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

• I've rewritten the relevant text to carefully distinguish between various reports: Fisher suffered from a "medical episode" on her flight and received medical treatment (solidly confirmed); at least one passenger observed that she had "stopped breathing" (accurately described as an observation rather than a confirmed fact); the LAFD reported treated a passenger on Fisher's flight who had gone into "cardiac arrest" (but didn't identify the passenger as Fisher, so we shouldn't until that's confirmed by appropriate family, medical, or otherwise authorized sources). The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006. (talk) 17:31, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the re-write since NY Times is the most credible source. Here's what the highly-respected Canadian Broadcasting Corp wrote minutes ago: Fisher, 60, experienced medical trouble during a Friday flight from London and was treated by paramedics immediately after the plane landed in Los Angeles, according to reports citing unnamed sources. Celebrity website TMZ, which first reported the incident, said anonymous sources told them the actress suffered a heart attack. http://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/best-wishes-carrie-fisher-hospital-1.3912177

Peter K Burian (talk) 17:45, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

On another topic: Someone suggested that Variety (magazine) should not be used as a source, but this is also highly credible publication. NOT a fan mag or celeb site like TMZ and many others.Peter K Burian (talk) 17:46, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

How solid is the quote from the fire department saying she had a heart attack. Neither CBC nor CBS News are using that. Here's what CBS said minutes ago: Los Angeles Fire Department spokesman Erik Scott said paramedics administered advanced life-saving care to a patient at Los Angeles International Airport on Friday and transported the person to a nearby hospital. He did not identify the patient. Peter K Burian (talk) 17:56, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Per NOTNEWS I've trimmed this way back; details were there that simply would not be in this article upon passage of time. I've included in a note the sources of "cardiac episode". —ATS 🖖 talk 19:26, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Stage performances table? Wit?

There are mentions of Carries Fischer's stage appearances in the prose, but no table summary, like for her film and TV appearances. Is this a conscious omission?

In the interviews that I've seen, she displayed a sharp wit and an acerbic sense of humor. Do any sources mention this so that she can be credited with these wonderful traits?

The is a disturbance in the Force that I hope will soon becalm. Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 06:31, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Looks like the Force failed English 101. Yeeesh!