Talk:Turkish Airlines Flight 1951

WikiNews

Is there a wikinews article yet? 76.66.193.90 (talk) 11:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Nope, not yet apparently. 81.175.86.66 (talk) 11:45, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

redirects

TK1951 & THY1951 & TURKISH 1951 redirects needed. (and one from the tailnumber, TC-JGE) 76.66.193.90 (talk) 11:11, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Joshdboz (talk) 11:47, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Possible bird strike

I've added in the infobox that it might have been a bird strike, however, I have not done so in main the article, as it may be incorrect, if it is, please revert it and let me know. Ta, Shnitzled (talk) 12:02, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I will revert it until it is well sourced. -- BaldPark (talk) 12:31, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I did not here it in the Dutch news, in the official press conf there was no information about it. And I can not find it on other news sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.176.204.96 (talk) 14:41, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

This engine damage looks defiitely like a bird strike may of happened notice the diffrence between the top blades and the bottom blades... [1] -WxHalo(T/C)

Map of Location

Approximate Location, CC-BY-SA. Attribution: OpenStreetMap —Preceding unsigned comment added by Firefishy (talk • contribs) 12:25, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Passenger count

Better source than CNN for passenger count: http://www.thy.com/DarkSiteEN/index.aspx Still no info on fatalities though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.253.250.124 (talk) 12:32, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Im confused. If there at 127 passangers and 7 crew that means there is only 134 people total. Am I right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.9.1.74 (talk) 16:29, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Press conf

official press conf 9 fatalities, 50 injured. --TheDJ (talk • contribs)

Reports

The Hungarian online news site index.com's artice Template:Hu icon says:
1.) One reporter of index.com (who are in amsterdam) told, that local radio stations reported engine failure, including one engine on fire mid-air, but got extinguished.
2.) The crash-site got plowed before, the rescue team have difficulties in reaching the site with heavy machinery.
3.) The Türkish medias quote a survivor, who told: that most peapole left the plane on foot, the plane's rear landed 1st, and the crash itself was like a big turbulence.
Placi1982 (talk) 14:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Distance from the runway.

The reports are 3km, but that is of course a "guestimate" by reporters. Google Earth shows a distance of at most 2.4 km (this includes the "runoff strip" [where you are not supposed to land yet] and the furthest position into the field that I could choose). If I measure as accurately as possible, it's more like 1.8km until it would have been "safe". So, for all you curious ones out there, now you know. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:39, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Good point, TheDJ. Let's keep an eye for reputable source coming up with a better estimate, because we can't write up original research. masqueraid 14:54, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I've been near the site myself, and I saw that it was much less than 3 kilometer. I think it was about 1, or 1.5 kilometer. Ssmm987 (talk) 14:59, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Amount of ambulances

In the article is standing that there arrived about 20 ambulances, I've been near the site myself, and saw much more. I think there were about 50 or 60. Also a journalist from the NOS counted 33 ambulances himself, about 3 or 4 hours after the accident. Ssmm987 (talk) 14:59, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Nationalities of passengers / dead not notable?

Why is that? --AaThinker (talk) 15:28, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Weather at the crash site

I'm getting conflicting reports on the weather at Schiphol at the time of the crash. Whereas CNN reports quotes an RTL journalist saying that the weather at the time was partly sunny with no wind or rain, this source reports that the weather was rainy and very foggy (translation). Anybody have confirmation? masqueraid 15:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

light fog interspersed with just the littlest of sun. No unusual condition for Amsterdam airport. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:45, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

6 AM UTC Feb 25 37(3) 35(2) 30.33(1027) SSW 9 mph mist -WxHalo(T/C)

I'm not a reliable source and I'm not a meteorologist, but the weather has been virtually the same throughout the country. Cloudy, hazey (?), a slight rain, a typical calm late winter's day. Nothing out of the ordinary, and definitely not windy. Aecis·(away) ^talk 19:30, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Journalism

Oh great, they just botched up the international report during the press conf. I counted at least 5 errors in it. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:45, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Possible engine falloff

A statement from Dutch sources airing at the moment in Turkish news channels speculate that one of the engines fell off the aircraft prior to the crash. Anybody have confirmation? Aportakal (talk) 15:49, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Considering the fact that both engines are visible in the field, i doubt that is likely. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:57, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Motorways

Which motorways have been closed as a result of the crash? I have removed the A13 (The Hague - Rotterdam) and the A6 (Muiden - Joure). They weren't mentioned in any source and because of their location they were highly unlikely to be closed. The motorways most likely to be closed are the A4 (Amsterdam - Delft), the A5 (alongside Schiphol) and the A9 (Diemen - Alkmaar). Aecis·(away) ^talk 16:08, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Possible Micro-Burst

I think it's definitely weather related accident,microburst,I heard from some survivors that plane vibrated like turbulence and loose altitude quickly then crash down in seconds.If you look at Delta Air Lines Flight 191 plane behaves just like this one.It descended unexpectedly while approaching and pilot involuntary landed early.In this case we can see similar plane behaviours.Only big difference is Delta Flight 191 was in bad weather condition and wind shear appears more stronger than this one.It seems good weather near schiphol airport but micro bursts are very dangerous because they appears suddenly and they disappear in short time.This wind shear seems weak but enough to force a plane to crash landing.

The symptoms you describe could be from any of a number of causes. Besides, testimonies that engines were not running rule out weather-related causes. CuriousOliver (talk) 16:22, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

The cause of the crash is still undetermined and under investigation. It would be wrong to speculate on the cause. Aecis·(away) ^talk 16:15, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I would doubt the microburst idea because in order to have a microburst you have to have a convective storm... At the latitude of the accident and time of year. A convective storm is near impossible. -WxHalo(T/C)

Photos usable?

Are these photos usable: [2], [3]. They are uploaded to Flickr by the copyright holder under the following license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0/deed.en

There are a lot of photos uploaded by "Radio Nederland Wereldomroep" of the incident. Mahalo. --Ali'i 16:55, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I think you can. Those images are uploaded by Radio Netherlands Worldwide, a Dutch public broadcaster, so it makes sense that images produced by that broadcaster are indeed freely usable as indicated by the cc-by-2.0 licence. I suggest you use the Flickr-to-Commons tool for moving the images. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 17:13, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

this image is now being uploaded by the Flickr upload bot as commons:File:Crash Turkish Airlines TK 1951.jpg. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 17:18, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks... I know very little about Commons, and less about Flickr to Commons tools. :-) I figured if I at least identified the images, that someone else would want to collaborate with me and actually upload them. Wiki works! Mahalo and thanks! --Ali'i 17:25, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Wiki indeed works :). Thanks for pointing to the free images. Several others are now being uploaded as well. Cheers! Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 17:34, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Looks like the tool overwrote the old image (you listed above) with a different one. Something wrongly labeled or something? --Ali'i 17:57, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Those images are not free according to Flikr. They are copyright. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeadSongDog (talk • contribs) 19:12, February 25, 2009 (UTC)

They are loaded under the CC-by-2.0 license. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that mean we can use them as long as we attribute where they came from? Mahalo. --Ali'i 19:43, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Opening sentence

Will the flight number now be retired and another number assigned to the route? If not, should the opening sentence "Turkish Airlines Flight 1951 was a flight from Istanbul, Turkey to Amsterdam, Netherlands." be changed to "Turkish Airlines Flight 1951 is a flight from Istanbul, Turkey to Amsterdam, Netherlands."? 90.215.157.50 (talk) 18:14, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Crew fatalities

Were both pilots killed? this BBC article seems to imply it, without stating it. The 737-800 has two cockpit crew, and the BBC article states three members of the cockpit crew were killed. Hiberniantears (talk) 19:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

According to both Turkish and Dutch media, both the pilot and the co-pilot have been killed in the crash. The rescue teams haven't officially confirmed the identity of the victims though. They did confirm that the bodies of three deceased crew members have been removed from the cockpit in the course of the late afternoon/early evening, but they haven't said anything about the position of these crew members. Aecis·(away) ^talk 19:33, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Possibly out of fuel

Although the cause of the crash is still unknown, pending an investigation, rumor has it that it is quite likely the plane was out of fuel. Considering no fire broke out, in fact, there is no evidence of -any- fire damage whatsoever, this seems a real possibility. An eye witness reports that it seemed as if the plane was out of fuel, it came in 'like a glider'. "Volgens een ooggetuige op Schiphol leek het of het Turkse toestel geen brandstof meer had en „als een zweefvliegtuig” kwam aanvliegen." http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/article2162550.ece/Negen_doden_bij_vliegtuigcrash_Schiphol See also: http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/106883/-Toestel-viel-letterlijk-uit-de-lucht.html and http://frontpage.fok.nl/nieuws/106877/-Tekort-brandstof-mogelijk-oorzaak-crash.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.85.172.58 (talk) 19:42, 25 February 2009 (UTC)