Talk:"Hello, World!" program

Ezhil?

Struggling to wrap my head around this language's degree of notability. Apparently, its main intended use is as a teaching tool in schools catering for the 75 million Tamil speakers (well, the ones between six and 18 years old who are actually attending school). Ezhil uses a syntax inspired by either Pascal or BASIC, depending which documentation you choose to read, and it uses Python libraries for its 350 built-in functions. Its own source code is indicated to be 33% Python on Github (can be inaccurate). Is it an active project? Well, its Github repository seems to have been in "maintenance mode" for the last four years. That may simply mean the language is feature-complete and hasn't needed any fixes.

I'm generally in favour of including languages that aren't based around English in their syntax, so long as they can demonstrate sufficient adoption. But if we should be already looking at Ezhil through the rear-view mirror of history, I'm not sure it clears the bar. What do others think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8071:184:DA00:AD01:267D:B591:1C4C (talk) 19:09, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

I have similar questions but I think I'd err on the side of leaving it in, for now. Even if Ezhil isn't very active, I think having examples of a variety of even dead historical languages is worthwhile. (We have two ALGOL examples! Hm, maybe one of them should be pruned...) Its Wikipedia page is much more developed and long-standing than, I think, basically all of the example languages that have been removed. And the value of having a non-English example seems high enough, so I'd say keep. Skynxnex (talk) 15:51, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Do we really need examples of "Hello, World" in that many select languages?

I can't tell if there is consensus around this, but I don't think we need to have examples of the Hello, World! program in that many languages. It appears that most other articles uses either C or C++ for examples. Shouldn't this article follow that convention? ThatIPEditor ^{Talk · Contribs} 17:48, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

This has gone back and forth. See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Hello_world_program_examples and a pretty big number of threads in Talk:"Hello,_World!"_program/Archive_1. It used to have lots of examples, they were removed. And then in September 2021 the examples section was re-created and it's been growing since then: Special:Diff/1044294394. I don't have a super strong opinion other than I've removed some very non-notable ones and tried to keep to simplest possible style but I'd be open to a discussion about possibly removing the list or at least cutting it down in size. Skynxnex (talk) 18:39, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

No, we do not need that many examples. It does not aide the reader’s understanding what a Hello, World program is. I have now artificially restricted the set of examples to programming languages with an ISO standard. I would even contest that we need any Examples section at all, because you can find all examples in the respective programming language’s Wikipedia article. There you can find explanations, too, which is missing here. Code without explanation/comments is bad. ‑‑ K (🗪 | ✍) 14:09, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

@Kai Burghardt I've been trying to have time to think through what I think is the best rule/restriction of languages to have in the examples section. Thank you for trying something but I think that the ISO standard is too restrictive in a non-helpful way, partly since more recent languages are much less likely to have an ISO standard than earlier languages. Also noticing in my watch list, it definitely seems like it will forever be an on-going addition/revert/addition/revert from various different users. I don't have a solution for it now but I will try to propose a different rule for the set and maybe how to make it less inviting for people to add more. Although, for many new users of Wikipedia being able to add an example of their favorite language is, I'm sure, very tempting. Happy editing. Skynxnex (talk) 18:40, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

@Skynxnex: I don’t think we need to cover recent programming languages. It’s perfectly fine that there is, for example, no Q# – a quantum-computing oriented language – example. The tenacity of ISO standards – the time it takes for drafting and approving a standard – is actually a pretty favorable characteristic. This will prevent us from unnecessarily documenting ephemeral programming languages like – I don’t know – TrumpScript.
   What if we restrict the set to programming languages listed in {{programming languages}}? However, it seems to be an alphabetical list clipped at the (now) 33rd item, and a brief look at the template’s revision history shows there’s been a back and forth, too. Arguably not the best source for limiting the set of examples.
   Another “creative”, yet poor idea for an encyclopedia is to wrap all examples as alternatives for {{random item}}. The page stays short, only one example is displayed [the reader can {{purge|request a new example}}], and everyone can still contribute their favorite programming language’s example.
   I think, I’ll keep it the way it is now unless you or ThatIPEditor have some brilliant suggestion. If things get too stupid for me (constant re-addition of some programming language), I’ll replace the entire section with a link to Wikibooks: Computer Programming/Hello world (there’s already a link to that at the bottom).
‑‑ K (🗪 | ✍) 21:04, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

To be honest, I think it is a good and valid idea to replace the entire section, and all sections with examples in random languages with a link to wikibooks. There are practically infinite languages out there, and it is very... improper to have a huge list of examples. ThatIPEditor ^{Talk · Contribs} 03:00, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

The list of examples are quite literally longer than the rest of the article. ThatIPEditor ^{Talk · Contribs} 03:01, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

English

hello, world! 222.166.213.21 (talk) 14:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Question

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kai_Burghardt The Batch language doesn't have a ISO standard? Thanks! MihaiPedia101 (talk) 18:39, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

C++23 "hello world" needs fix

With C++23 the preferred output statement is Unicode-supporting and type safe `std::print` (adopted from the {fmt} library), not unsafe and Unicode-challenged `std::prinln` from old C.

I'm not going to create an account and password and shit to fix that.

Wikipedia needs some fixing too, yes.

- Alf 77.16.74.79 (talk) 09:47, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Done: [1]. Thanks. Skynxnex (talk) 15:44, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2023

I want to add a example for a hello world in java because it is one of the most popular programing languages in the world. public class Main {

   public static void main(String[] args) {
       System.out.print("Hello World");
   }

} Doctor Notch (talk) 10:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 13:35, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

@M.Bitton: Java is apparently not standardized by an ISO standard. The § Examples says at its head the examples are limited to standardized programming languages. For more details read discussion § Do we really need examples of "Hello, World" in that many select languages? ‑‑ K (🗪 | ✍) 19:25, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

@Kai Burghardt: thanks for letting me know. I self-reverted. M.Bitton (talk) 21:57, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

• "Has an ISO standard" is a poor selection criterion for this article. In both ways: it doesn't indicate that languages are relevant to the article (they add something to it, beyond trainspotting) and it's also an arbitrary restriction of relevant languages. As a clear example, assembler would be a good example to include, because it's so distinctly different from other languages and requires so much additional management of structures or API calls that is abstracted and hidden in high level languages.

A corollary of "examples must be chosen from ISO standards" is that "examples will be chosen from ISO standards" and that will simply produce a list of near-identical structures, adding nothing useful for this article's purposes. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:10, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, Andy, these are valid points, I agree with you, but this article’s Examples section dominated the entire article at multiple times in its revision history, see discussion above. Saying “ISO standard” is in particular an objective criterion. There is no debate whether some language needs to/can be included, too. I invite you to propose a different criterion. I just dislike criteria that are prone to edit wars (not clear) or not static (e. g. TIOBE index). ‑‑ K (🗪 | ✍) 08:58, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

 Undone: This request has been undone. M.Bitton (talk) 22:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)