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== Typos in Background Section: "Isrselis", "seize-fire" ==
== Typos in Background Section: "Isrselis", "seize-fire" ==
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== Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2016 ==
== Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2016 ==

Revision as of 07:43, 15 June 2021

Archive 5Archive 6Archive 7Archive 8Archive 9

Jarring peace initiative

It looks like whoever wrote the paragraph about the Jarring peace initiative did not read the source document carefully enough. The Israeli response included a statement that they were not willing to withdraw to the pre-1967 lines. It is a response to a rather more subtle formulation by Sadat, as he wrote that "just and lasting peace cannot be realized without the full and scrupulous implementation of Security Council Resolution 242 of 1967 and the withdrawal of the Israeli armed forces from all the territories occupied since 5 June 1967"; it is easy to read this text as if withdrawal "from all the territories" is an obvious part of the UNSC resolution; it is not: the resolution calls for withdrawal from occupied territories, not necessarily all the territories. It is easy to miss the significance of these two words, and then the Israeli response is made to look like blunt and uncalled-for war mongering. This was an NPOV violation. I re-wrote that paragraph, also adding information about the War of Attrition. -- Heptor talk 12:33, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

This wasn't made better by the fact that the statement about the 1967 lines was the only part of the Israeli response that was included in the article. The way it was written in suggested that it was the only thing they bothered to come up with in response to a lengthy and friendly letter with several admissions. Also, the article suggested that this letter exchange represented the Jarring peace initiative in its entirety, which is not the case. Jarring attempted to negotiate a peace treaty for years. -- Heptor talk 13:05, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

There is a debate about the French version vs. English version of text. As the text is now in this article, we only know about the pro-Israeli position. --IRISZOOM (talk) 20:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
I tried to read up on the debate but I had to give up due to the volume of the discussion. As far as I could understand it the exclusion of "all" and "the" was intensely and extensively debated prior to passing of the resolution. Heptor talk 14:40, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Also, it looks like in actual reality the English version was debated and voted on, while the French version was a bad translation. It cannot in good faith be used to advance a legal point. So I am not sure how this is relevant. Heptor talk 22:06, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Kuwait

Can we have Kuwait in infobox? Kuwait had used its military forces in this war per article, Yom_Kippur_War#Other_countries. D4iNa4 (talk) 14:59, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Typo in "Failure of the US Intelligence community"

In the "Failure of the US Intelligence community," the last sentence seems to be missing a word: "the report he written to that effect was only rediscovered..." Perhaps "he had written" was the intended phrasing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.97.197.172 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Wrong flag?

In the Belligerents section in the right column Egypt's flag is shown next to Syria. Should it be this way, as they were allies fighting under a common flag, or is it a mistake? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.235.3.196 (talk • contribs) 12:57, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

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Typos in Background Section: "Isrselis", "seize-fire"

"While both parties reaffirmed their desire for a peace agreement, the -->Isrselis<-- refused any preconditions to negotiations; the Egyptians on the other hand, refused entering negotiations before Israel had withdrawn their troops from the Sinai peninsula and the 1967 -->seize-fire<-- lines" Should obviously be "Israelis", "ceasefire".— Preceding unsigned comment added by EmmeDave (talk • contribs) 19:51, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2016

Dear sir/madam I found severe mistakes in this article.The person who wrote this article relied on israeli sources only. It is as if someone say you are dead while you are not dead

Regards,Tito98 Tito98 (talk) 18:44, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 19:19, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Third lead paragraph

The war began with a massive and successful Egyptian crossing of the Suez Canal. After crossing the cease-fire lines, Egyptian forces advanced virtually unopposed into the Sinai Peninsula. After three days, Israel had mobilized most of its forces and halted the Egyptian offensive, resulting in a military stalemate. The Syrians coordinated their attack on the Golan Heights to coincide with the Egyptian offensive and initially made threatening gains into Israeli-held territory. Within three days, however, Israeli forces had pushed the Syrians back to the pre-war ceasefire lines. The IDF then launched a four-day counter-offensive deep into Syria. Within a week, Israeli artillery began to shell the outskirts of Damascus. As Egyptian president Anwar Sadat began to worry about the integrity of his major ally, he believed that capturing two strategic passes located deeper in the Sinai would make his position stronger during post-war negotiations. He therefore ordered the Egyptians to go back on the offensive, but their attack was quickly repulsed. The Israelis then counter-attacked at the seam between the two Egyptian armies, crossed the Suez Canal into Egypt, and began slowly advancing southward and westward towards the city of Suez[1][2] in over a week of heavy fighting that resulted in heavy casualties on both sides.

This is a bizarrely casual take on the war. It implies that Israel was kind of surprised at first, retaliated and easily waved off the attack. That's nowhere near true. As was written in the Samson Option article (and properly sourced by 5 citations), "In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Arab forces were overwhelming Israeli forces and Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert and ordered 13 atomic bombs be readied for use by missiles and aircraft. The Israeli Ambassador warned President Nixon of 'very serious conclusions' if the United States did not airlift supplies. Nixon complied." Why is this not even mentioned? Why is the initial success of the Egyptian-Syrian alliance not highlighted, especially after the Six-Day War went so smoothly? It was significant, to say the least. Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 11:02, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Hammad (2002), pp.237–276
  2. ^ Gawrych (1996), p.60

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2016

The section "Egyptian atrocities" based on two references, one of them is based upon a testimony of one soldier and nothing more, the other is based on several testimonies and a blurred picture of what is supposed to be an official document by general Elshazly but offer no proof that it really is official and mentions the existence of photos that prove the incidents but were hidden for political reasons again with no proof of it's existence, I consider these references to be weak and I wish that this section be amended with further proof or removed . 62.114.152.23 (talk) 16:34, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:08, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 June 2016

Please edit the description of the October 24 photo of Haim Bar-Lev to include the name of the Egyptian general, Brigadier General Bashir Sharif.

[1]

Goodpoints (talk) 06:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Boyne, Walter J. The Yom Kippur War: And the Airlift Strike That Saved Israel. Macmillan. pp. Insert 6. ISBN 9780312320423.
I don't have access to the link, but I was able to access this link. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 06:44, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Done — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 06:49, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2016

I would like to bring to your attention a serious error in this page. The page indicates on the right side that there was an "Israeli military victory".

In fact, this line should say "Egyptian military victory", since according to various reliable sources, such as the United Nations and the Camp David accords and the United States government, they all indicate that the war was an "Egyptian military victory".

Also, this same page in all the other offered languages indicates the war was an "Egyptian military victory", except English.

Also, the source cited (source 19) is inaccurate.

I would appreciate that this be corrected as soon as possible.

Regards,

Sergio

Sergio.vicino (talk) 00:30, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

 Not done - unsurprisingly, this has been discussed at great length before - please type "Victory" into the archive search box above for dome of the discussions.
The current version reflects the current consensus, as "Israel ... maintained possession of the Sinai Peninsula and the Golan Heights." - Arjayay (talk) 10:03, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

I don't understand how this is an Israeli victory, a victory in a war is measured by achieving objectives, the Egyptian military never intended to kick Israel out of Sinai, their objective was to advance 14km to kick start negotiations to get Sinai back, which they successfully achieved, they advanced, they kick started the negotiations and got Sinai back! how is that an Israeli victory? what was Israel's military objective? If you want to measure the victory by losses, both sides inflicted heavy damage to each others and severely hampered each others capability to continue the fight.., it was a military stalemate, and an Egyptian strategic, political victory. If you consider Israel being 100km away from Cairo is somehow a "military victory" , please tell me, how exactly? and why didn't Israel advance more than that? why did they stop? and why exactly did they stand 100km from Cairo? umm maybe to save face because they weren't able to continue the fight? and let's talk about the encircling of the 3rd army, why didn't Israel annihilate them? umm let's see, 1st: The 3rd Egyptian army outnumbered them, 2nd: If they attacked them the Egyptian air force would have attacked them, and cut off their supply line... there's just a lot about this that makes the military result of this war a stalemate. Might as well read this > "Kissinger Wants Israel to Know: The U.S. Saved You During the 1973 War" http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.555704 Wasteland1 (talk) 17:20, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Not sure how this war is considered as military victory to Israel! Even if success is measured by land occupied; Egyptian army did occupy more than 2000 km sq to the east of the Suez Canal which is significantly larger than the land occupied by the IDF on the west side. Some would claim that because of IDF units that sneaked into Africa on the west side of the canal and encapsuled the Egyptian third army depriving them of supply; it would have been considered a clear victory to IDF if cease fire was not in effect as of the 23rd of October, however in same hypothesis of speculating what-if with no cease fire; Egyptian Air-Forces would have easily bombed and swept the full IDF units on west of canal especially they were on Africa side and away from any Israeli air defenses which was the one thing that Kissinger said to Sadat as "not an option" and hence cease fire was the only political option to both sides. In a more balanced view; this war can split in two halves; first half complete victory to Egyptians and second half as a tie; then overall war would be considered as a victory to Egypt since eventually Sinai was returned to Egypt despite complete and stubborn refusal from Israel side before the war.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2016


49.248.211.14 (talk) 11:41, 2 July 2016 (UTC) It is Komar class boat and not Kumar class.

Done — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 15:46, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

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Inconsistency of the table of losses with the main bulk of the article

the table estimates israeli aircraft losses from 102 to 387 but doesn't give any account about the different estimation of their losses in the main article, using israeli sources only 77.34.136.85 (talk) 14:32, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2016

Neheart (talk) I need to edit this page, i wanna added some info that the war was laso supported by Pakistan.

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — JJMC89 (T·C) 18:07, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Nuclear war

The Yom Kippur War was the closest the world came to nuclear war. DEFCON 2 was secretly enacted as the USSR moved nuclear weapons into Alexandria Harbor. (213.122.144.148 (talk) 13:10, 4 November 2016 (UTC))

Subjective or unreliable source

The last paragraph residing in 'temporary stabilization' within the 'combat operations' section closes with seriously nothing but a joke in regards of source reliability. The paragraph I am talking about is as follows:

  • Between October 10 and 13, both sides refrained from any large-scale actions, and the situation was relatively stable. Both sides launched small-scale attacks, and the Egyptians used helicopters to land commandos behind Israeli lines. Some Egyptian helicopters were shot down, and those commando forces that managed to land were quickly destroyed by Koah Patzi, a twelve-man squad consisting of officers from the Sayeret Shaked unit. In one key engagement on October 13, Koah Patzi destroyed a particularly large incursion and killed close to a hundred Egyptian commandos.

The paragraph content is relatively fine until its last sentence In one key engagement on October 13, Koah Patzi destroyed a particularly large incursion and killed close to a hundred Egyptian commandos. [1] --- I am not a wikipedia guy nor am I experienced in editing text or with standards in encyclopedias BUT this claim is supported only by the book of Ariel Sharon's son Galid. How can such sentence can find its way even into 'protected' articles like this one? This is what kills Wikipedia's reputation as a reliable source each and every day. Galid Sharon f.ex made this statement 2 years ago - Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn't stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren't surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too [2] -

So, ofc his statement is not related to this article but it shows

  1. that Mr. Sharon clearly cannot be considered a 'reliable source' due to his pov and
  2. that his pov tends to be quite harsh to say politely.

Presenting his record of Koah Patzi as a fact is nonsense and at least needs to be reworded if not removed completely. You guys need to prefix the sentence with a leading-in wording like 'According to Ariel Sharon's son Koah Patzi destoryed....' or 'Based on memoirs by a participant of the engagements...'. At best you people just remove the sentence entirely. It adds nothing useful anyways. This article is about the whole war and not about individual success stories.

To close with some Godwinity I compare this sentence to the same bullshit you read sometimes in WW2 related Articles. Something like ...and there was this fanatic German SS commander who alone with his battalion staff unit held back 2 armies of Russian armored vehicles in a fierce but heroic fight...bladibla... can especially be found on German Wikipedia pages but not only there. I am really done to read this kind of national bias on Wikipedia but I know it will happen due to the nature of this Website. Still it annoys me beyond reason which led me to finally write a comment on one of this occasions. Plz fix this.

Kind Regards tobi 83.135.46.240 (talk) 16:36, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Gilad Sharon, to my understanding, isn't a reliable source for this topic. I tagged the sentence, hopefully a better source would be found. Infantom (talk) 17:44, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Much appreciated Infantom. The tag is a start and better then nothing. I still would prefer if it would simply be removed however. I mean, it's up to the the editor to proof his statements before they get online and not up to the visitor to proof a statement is wrong to get it removed. At least imo the 'burden of proof' should be on the editor. Anyhow, the tag shows there is doubt about the statement and that already takes the 'fact' tag away. Cheers for that. --tobi 83.135.46.240 (talk) 19:16, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

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Egyptians won the war

Egyptians won the war Pwfurius (talk) 05:59, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Egyptian vs. Israeli victory

Not sure how this war is considered as military victory to Israel! Even if success is measured by land occupied; Egyptian army did occupy more than 2000 km sq to the east of the Suez Canal which is significantly larger than the land occupied by the IDF on the west side. Some would claim it could have been an Israeli victory since IDF units sneaked into Africa on the west side of the canal and encapsuled the Egyptian third army depriving them of supply; it would have been considered a clear victory to IDF if cease fire was not in effect as of the 23rd of October, however in same hypothesis of speculating what-if with no cease fire; Egyptian Air-Forces would have easily bombed and swept the full IDF units on west of canal especially they were on Africa side and away from any Israeli air defenses which was the one thing that Kissinger said to Sadat as "not an option" and hence cease fire was the only political option to both sides. In a more balanced view; this war can split in two halves; first half complete victory to Egyptians and second half as a tie; then overall war would be considered as a victory to Egypt since eventually Sinai was returned to Egypt despite complete and stubborn refusal by Israel before the war. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Latifmwiki (talk • contribs) 20:31, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@Latifmwiki: If you've got a lot of time to spare, go up to this page's archive search box, type in "victory" and search. This has been a settled matter for a very long time. RunnyAmiga ※ talk 20:45, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

@RunnyAmiga thanks for your quick response, I went over many of the previous edits re:victory, with all respect I think you turned down every logic, many points like "how things really ended on ground versus intended objectives" are actually missing how things really ended; in fact I agree with you that we can't base a "third party judgement" on one side's intended objective so I am not debating this at all, but to your argument "what happened really on ground" is: 1- Compared to land before 6 October 1973; Egypt occupied 2000 Km.sq on east side of the canal versus 1600 km.sq occupied by IDF on the west side of the canal 2- Threatened situation to significant parts of both armies: 2.a. Egyptian third army deprived of supply by the IDF units on west of the canal and 2.b. those very IDF units completely under mercy of Egyptian airforces, you can easily find these facts in Kissinger's recalls of the war. I really think you should review your position otherwise if I am missing any deal breaker point here please let me know. And about intentions and objectives you have all the rights to debate wether Egyptian army's military objectives were achieved but I am equally shocked you entail in your article that Israel saw the opportunity in this war to establish recognition and peace, firstly you are denying Egyptian intentions on one side yet claiming fulfillment of Israeli intentions in a different point, secondly you are ignoring simple facts and things that actually happened; please go and review your resources, you will find that Sadat offered Israel in 1971 peace and recognition versus return of Sinai and they refused,without this 1973 military victory that you deny, nothing would have made Israel change their minds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Latifmwiki (talk • contribs) 22:28, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

The victory was for the Egyptian Army Nadine khattab (talk) 17:14, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

The war wasn't between the arab and Israel , if you would like to say it like this so it will be Isreal and America VS Arab,this is the fact, the other fact is that Egypt won the war not Israel as i agree with Nadine KHattab on every word she said,THIS SHOULD BE EDIT Mohamed gouda22 (talk) 15:36, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

I've read extensively on that war and I think the result of the war should've been a ceasefire or the disengagement agreement .Also the Results of this agreement should be stated under Territorial changes pinpointing all its points with both Egypt and Syria.No army surrendered and no army completely destroyed so it cannot be considered Victory for either side .After Ceasefire agreements Egypt kept the strip of land and opened Suez Canal .Israel moved out of the west bank of canal zone and from Syria proper giving in the city of Quneitra back as well.If the war is to be defined by intentions then break of the political stalemate was Egypt military goal while Israel's was to destroy all Arab attackers so they don't gain any edge in negotiations whatsoever.So political gains for Egypt where also more substantial.Syria's Intent though was retaking Golan militarily not politically so Syria can be said to have failed in that regard. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OSARIOUS (talk • contribs) 16:39, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

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UNSC 242

The article currently has this passage

In addition, the Egyptian response included a statement that the lasting peace could not be achieved without "withdrawal of the Israeli armed forces from all the territories occupied since 5 June 1967" (emphasis added). The UNSC resolution called for "withdrawal from territories occupied" [1] intentionally omitting "all", and "the"."[2]

The sources for the second sentence are former Israeli ambassador Meir Rosenne and the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Relations, both of which can hardly be called unbiased. The question of what territories UNSC 242 refers to is heavily contested. The French text unambiguously calls for Israeli withdrawal from all territories, while the English text can possibly be read to mean some territories, although many people find this reading implausible. We can't use a biased source to make a statement of fact in Wikipedia's voice. The second sentence above should be amended to make it clear that in Israel's view, the UNSC resolution intentionally omits the word "all." The article should additionally note that there is disagreement on this point, and that the French text is unambiguous. -Thucydides411 (talk) 19:53, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Rosenne, Meir. "Understanding UN Security Council Resolution 242". Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs. Retrieved November 2015. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |access-date= (help)
  2. ^ "The Jarring initiative and the response", Israel's Foreign Relations, Selected Documents, vols 1–2, 1947–1974. Retrieved June 9, 2005.

Flags

It looks like the flags in right hand section near the top of the page are all the Egyptian flags when some of them should be the Syrian flags. I don't have the ability to edit and fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jplflyer (talk • contribs) 22:07, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 November 2017

The war was part of the Arab–Israeli conflict, an ongoing dispute that included many battles and wars since 1948, when the (modern) state of Israel was formed. During the Six-Day War of 1967, Israel had captured Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, roughly half of Syria's Golan Heights, and the territories of the West Bank which had been held by Jordan since 1948. 209.203.41.155 (talk) 09:42, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Not done: You didn't specify what you need to be done.  — Ammarpad (talk) 11:19, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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Please include East German military aid

The following text should be added in section "4.3.4. Other countries":

"East Germany supplied Syria with 75,000 grenades, 30,000 mines, 62 tanks and 12 fighter jets."

That information is taken from the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany%E2%80%93Israel_relations The reference given is this: [1] 

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:65:E878:3255:F41B:CDE:EB4E:47BF (talk) 13:11, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:08, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Marc Fisher. "E. Germany Ran Antisemitic Campaign in West in ’60s", The Washington Post, February 28, 1993

Wrong figure legend

Instead of "Quneitra village, showing two minarets and an elevated car", please give "Quneitra village, showing the Greek-orthodox church and an elevated car".

Please refer to the Quneitra article: the church is still standing. 213.71.6.130 (talk) 14:14, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Other countries

To picture "Plaque commemorating...":It was 12 MiG-21 of the NAP's 8th Fighter Wing, not 8 MiG. See also Geheimoperation Aleppo in german WP. Please correct this, i can't. --Billyhill (talk) 09:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Minor edit suggestion

I'm nervous about making edits to the page because I don't fully understand the big scary warnings. So I'll post it here as a suggestion: In the "Other countries" section, I see that there are two entries for "North Korea". I think they could be advantageously combined --- the second one has some different (I think) references to the first, but it doesn't otherwise add much. STeamTraen (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

It is off putting isn't it. I suppose that it is meant to be. Good spot there. Have a look at my two edits and see if you think that they have done the job. The second one had two references to the NYT which only dealt with the Korean pilots peripherally; the first reference is better, IMO. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:36, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Article check - June 2018

1) The last sentence in the 1st paragraph of the lede is deceptive - namely "Neither Egypt nor Syria specifically planned to destroy Israel, although the Israeli leaders could not be sure of that." The Benny Morris quote was cherry-picked since the bit "though during the opening hours of the conflict, its leaders could not be sure ... etc", were excised. This deceptive type of editing left the impression that the Israeli leadership was unaware of the Egyptian-Syrian intentions throughout the war. Since it applied only fleetingly I am removing it as UNDUE in a lede. Instead I replaced it with an expert's analysis of Sadat's objectives. Erictheenquirer (talk) 14:55, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

2) There is a factual conflict in 'Background'. The second paragraph is a mix of "voted" and "never formalised" and of "public"/"not public" particularly illustrated by the Quote in the Avi Shlaim source - "The Americans, who were briefed of the Cabinet's decision by Eban, were not asked to convey it to Cairo and Damascus as official peace proposals, nor were they given indications that Israel expected a reply. At the meeting of 19 June the Israeli government developed policy guidelines; it did not discuss a peace initiative, nor did it ever formalise it as such."). If sources are in conflict on this topic this should be made clear. In fact the Herzog "according to" plus subsequent text looks like a C&P from Gabriel G. Tabarani's book "Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: from Balfour Promise to Bush Declaration" page 136. Did Herzog/Tabarani get it right or were Shlaim and Ben-Ami in error? What is sure is that no government decision was made known to Arab countries and any policy decision was therefore by no means "public". I will amend the text accordingly. Erictheenquirer (talk) 07:41, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Recent weakly-justified revert

יניב הורון (talk · contribs)please justify your POV-based deletion in your Revision as of 15:35, 15 June 2018. You appear to want to remove the fact that Egypt and Israel attacked occupying IDF forces in the alleged interest of brevity. Erictheenquirer (talk) 15:46, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

The fighting took place in Sinai and Golan. That's a fact. There's no need for your POV addition in lead to clarify it was "against Israeli forces."--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 16:19, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Just when being succinct loses necessary information is always a nice judgement. In this case it seems unnecessary to remind the reader that Israel was one of the combatants. That said and assuming good faith it was no doubt inserted in attempt to aid the reader. Pointing out that the main locations of the fighting were occupied territory seems worth a couple of words in the lead to me, although the copy editor in me doesn't like the suggested phraseology; it seems a little clumsy. (I have probably now offended both editors about equally; does that count as NPOV?) Gog the Mild (talk) 16:51, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
I generally agree with your sentiment above, and my recent additions have made it even more clumsy, I'm afraid. My sense is that this level of detail doesn't belong in the lede, at all. The subsequent paragraphs conveys the information needed, I think, when it states "The war began when the Arab coalition launched a joint surprise attack on Israeli positions in the Israeli-occupied territories," . Attack Ramon (talk) 18:15, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
The lead is not for such details, specially the first paragraph. I'm in favour of just saying something like "The war took place mostly in Sinai and the Golan, and for a short time also in northern Israel and Egyptian territory west of Sinai." We are not supposed to overwhelm the reader with details in the introduction.--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 20:37, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
The recent edit does make the lead "more accurate", but there seems to be agreement that it is also too much detail. I think that יניב הורון is on the right lines. I am not sure if they are proposing to remove the Syrian missiles mention. [?] How about The war mostly took place in Sinai and the Golan, with some fighting in northern Israel and African Egypt and several missile attacks on Israeli targets. This to replace the current Other than a flurry of Syrian missile attacks on Ramat David airbase and surrounding civilian settlements during the first days of the war,[56] the fighting took place in Sinai and the Golan Heights, territories that had been occupied by Israel since the end of the Six-Day War of 1967, and in the later stages, on the west side of the Suez canal in Egypt and in areas of the Golan beyond those held by Israel prior to the outbreak of war. I feel that it is shorter, easier for a reader to grasp and has the least consequential event (the missile attacks) at the end rather than the start. Gog the Mild (talk) 21:24, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
I am fine with your suggestion. Attack Ramon (talk) 15:13, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
I like how that part of the lead now reads. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:14, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Excellent consensus forming. So we are in agreement that the detail is valid, but belongs in the main text ... right? Erictheenquirer (talk) 09:11, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Obviously I reserve the right to object to any particular form of words, but from me, basically yes. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:19, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
Good. Thanks. I will implement accordingly. Erictheenquirer (talk) 12:36, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
I am in agreement with Gog's comment. The text should fairly reflect that, other than for brief flurries in the early days (8 light ground-to-ground missiles in total, if I am not mistaken) the overwhelming bulk of the war was fought on Arab territory, not Israeli - between Arab forces against Israeli forces occupying their lands. The urban legend that the Yom Kippur war was essentially an Arab attack on Israeli territory has no place in Wiki, unless the legend can be demonstrated and added as a section of "Misconceptions Regarding the War". Erictheenquirer (talk) 08:02, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
Your last addition was unnecessary POV and you know it. It makes the article look horrible for the reader. Please stop doing that. The text is supposed to be a neutral description of historical events. There's no need to clarify that a war is fought by the military of the countries involved, and if civilians participate or are affected, the information is added as well (in the proper place). Also it's already specified that the Golan and Sinai were territories taken by Israel in 1967, so your addition was also redundant and meaningless.--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 18:55, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 20 June 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 06:11, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Yom Kippur War → 1973 Arab-Israeli War – More neutral name for the war. Israelis call it the Yom Kippur War and Arabs call it the Ramadan War. 1973 Arab-Israeli War is a neutral, encyclopedic title. Seraphim System (talk) 14:12, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Ramadan War is used in tons of sources also. The main justification for Arab-Israeli War is that it is neutral and encyclopedic. Seraphim System (talk) 15:26, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Which Google did you search? I checked Turkish Google, and there are only 4,630,000 hits for "Yom Kippur savaşı" and 48,400,000 for "Ramadan savaşı". So, by your reasoning, we should rename the article to Ramadan War? Seraphim System (talk) 19:59, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
As this is the English language Wikipedia I used the English language Google. Not because the result is definitive, but because it is indicative: "[Wikipedia] generally prefers the name that is most commonly used". Gog the Mild (talk) 20:04, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
Not really - at least, not based on WP:RS (per WP:COMMONNAME, common name means the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources.) They are all widely used by WP:RS. And there are other factors here as well - it's not like William Clinton and Bill Clinton. I thought this would be simple, but it looks like it is going to require a more detailed review of sources and explanation.Seraphim System (talk) 20:51, 20 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Same reasoning as Gog the Mild: if common name means the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources the relevant results are from English-language Google. While I would discount the raw number of hits as being masked by a host of unreliable sources/double counting, etc., Google's "Related Searches" are suggestive (I did these through the Tor Network, with a new identity each time that was used for nothing else, to avoid influencing Google by my personal preferences):
    • For "Yom Kippur war":
      • yom kippur war combatants
      • who won the yom kippur war
      • yom kippur war facts
      • yom kippur war timeline
      • yom kippur war definition
      • yom kippur war video
      • yom kippur war map
      • which countries attacked israel during the yom kippur war in 1973 quizlet
    • For "1973 Arab-Israeli War":
      • arab israeli war 1967
      • 1948 arab–israeli war
      • yom kippur war combatants
      • who won the yom kippur war
      • which countries attacked israel during the yom kippur war in 1973 quizlet
      • yom kippur war facts
      • arab israeli conflict
      • yom kippur war video
    • And "Ramadan War" for good measure:
      • yom kippur war combatants
      • who won the yom kippur war
      • yom kippur war facts
      • yom kippur war timeline
      • yom kippur war definition
      • yom kippur war video
      • six day war
      • yom kippur war map
  • Given that the English Google overwhelmingly suggests searches involving "Yom Kippur war" when searching for "1973 Arab-Israeli War" or "Ramadan War," I think that that argues for the WP:COMMONNAME being the Yom Kippur war. Iwilsonp (talk) 00:26, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
COMMONNAME is determined by usage in English-language WP:RS, not Google's algorithm. This includes WP:RS closer to the incident - there seems to be a preference in recent WP:RS (written in the last 10 years or so) for Yom Kippur War, but looking at sources closer to the incident and in other disciplines outside politics, 1973 Arab-Israeli War is used more often - or "Fourth Arab-Israeli War" or "October War" - the name October War is more relevant to those topics than the fact that it started on Yom Kippur because their focus is on "stuff that happened that October" — Yom Kippur War makes more sense in Zionist histories — COMMONNAME is the wrong policy here, it is the personal preference of the editors at this article - since there is no clear COMMONNAME, we don't really have any choice but to allow editor's preference to decide.Seraphim System (talk) 09:58, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I would agree that Google's default search is definitely including unreliable sources - I was attempting to use it as a proxy for common usage, which is, I admit, not what COMMONNAME is looking for - it's indicative of what the "general public" is looking for. To search WP:RS, I checked the number of hits in scholar.google.com, which searches scholarly articles/books, so much closer to WP:RS. Here's what I found, searching the English scholar.google.com through the Tor Network, limiting it to articles published between 1972 and 2020, and searching for the whole term using quotes:
  • For ""Yom Kippur War"": 17000 hits (23100 without quotes).
  • For ""1973 Arab-Israeli War"": 4180 hits (18100 without quotes).
  • For ""Ramadan War"": 875 hits (28000 without quotes, but I think this is inflated by books mentioning Ramadan and War without meaning the Yom Kippur War).
So I would argue that this indicates that the usage in WP:RS is predominately Yom Kippur War, which is also in line with the general public usage (as indicated by general Google searches). Iwilsonp (talk) 15:40, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Sympathetic support for the nominators rationale, but Wikipedia doesn't lead in these things, and the onus is on the nominator to make a case that the rationale is in line with sources, or changes in recent sources. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:11, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Title suggestion

Having discussed the matter with historians I find the title of the article "Yom Kippur War" to include a strong bias towards the State of Israel, which is not ideal in an objective encyclopaedic article. I therefore advise that the title of the article be changed to "1973 Arab-Israeli War", with both the Israeli and Arab names of the conflict existing as alternative names within the body of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnatoleH1 (talk • contribs) 06:54, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

Destroyed tanks

The article on the sagger anti-tank missile says that more than 800-1000 israeli tanks were knocked out. Did You include the israeli crew members who got killed in Those tanks? Strijdersvdb (talk) 10:31, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Note that what the Sagger AT-3 article actually says is that "Saggers knocked out more than 800 Israeli tanks and other combat vehicles". This is from what seems to be a Russian military press which would not be in a good position to know and would have good reason to exaggerate the numbers. Accepting the 800+ figure, this is not incompatible with the 1,470 armoured vehicles which this articles states the Israelis lost during the war. This assumes that "other combat vehicles" does not include unarmoured vehicles, which it probably does. There seems to be no reason to doubt the Israeli casualty figures, which do not differentiate soldiers killed or wounded by different types of weapons. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:58, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Surprise attack location

RE this revert, the previous TP section had no consensus for this. The occupied territories are mentioned elsewhere in the lede. In the context of the opening surprise attack - this stmt is false, as the opening attack included multiple strikes at Ramat David (and mt. Miron) from Syria, and an Egyptian Tu-16 launched KSR-2 missles at Tel Aviv. Later in the war, fighting shifted into the Arab side's holdings, but this was not the case in the beginning.Icewhiz (talk) 17:56, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

The link to Israeli occupied territories can't be removed, but the first sentence of the second paragraph is somewhat redundant to The war mostly took place in Sinai and the Golan—territories that had been occupied by Israel since the end of the 1967 Six-Day War - Israeli-occupied territories could be piped to "occupied by Israel" in the first paragraph instead. It would also be nice to mention Bar Lev Line somewhere in the lede, it is a well-written and relevant article and the lede is currently underlinked.Seraphim System (talk) 18:09, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I agree we could work the wikilink to Israeli occupied territories into the sentence in the paragraph1 with the Sinai and Golan (that I would leave linked too). The Bar Lev line could possibly be worked into paragraph3 (might be too minute in relation to the canal itself, but might bear mentioning).Icewhiz (talk) 19:22, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
I propose we reformulate The war took place mostly in Sinai and the Golan—territories that had been occupied by Israel following the end of the 1967 Six-Day War in paragraph1 to The war took place mostly in Sinai and the Golan—territories that had been occupied by Israel since the 1967 Six-Day War - which will incorporate this wikilink. Note that this sentence also contains a mild inaccuracy that I want to fix as well - while the Golan was captured at the end of the Six Day War (the last day), fighting in the Sinai took place in 5-8 June - its capture was fully complete by day 4 of the 6 day war (and to a large extend complete on day 3) - with no fighting on days 5 and 6 - so saying this were occupied since the end of the war is inaccurate. Icewhiz (talk) 06:12, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
How about "occupied by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War" instead of since? Seraphim System (talk) 07:12, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
So - The war took place mostly in Sinai and the Golan—occupied by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War - yup - looks better.Icewhiz (talk) 07:50, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect statement of Egypt's goals in the war

The final sentence of the article's opening paragraph is a very misleading quotation of source 58. The quote suggests by context that Sadat's goal in the Yom Kippur War was to recover all territories occupied by Israel. However, the source's intention, clearly, is to say that that was Sadat's overarching goal for his presidency. In truth, Sadat's territorial goal in the Yom Kippur War was very limited: to retake only the eastern bank of the Suez Canal. Not sure of citation etiquette on talk pages, but I take this from:

Shlaim, A. (2014). The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World. Norton, 2nd ed. p. 324. ISBN 978-0-393-34686-2

For a revision, I suggest replacing the sentence in question with the following: "Egypt and Syria's objective was to provoke a crisis and bring American and Soviet pressure to bear on Israel to induce the return of territories captured in the Six-Day War." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Benjaminrchen (talk • contribs) 01:38, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

It's more complex than that. For starters - the Syrian goals were completely disconnected from the Egyptian ones (and the Golan is a much smaller expense of land than the Sinai). The initial goal of the war on the Egyptian was indeed to take the Sinai opposite of the canal - not going in deep - mostly to military practicalities (supply, SAMs) - however, after their initial success (and due to it) - they did attempt to push deeper. Icewhiz (talk) 09:08, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
Good points, do you have references? Would be good material to add to the article. However, I maintain that the quote from source 58 is taken entirely out of context and misleadingly put into a new context. We both agree that Sadat's goal was not to take all of Sinai, so I suggest at least we delete the final sentence of the opening paragraph and also temporarily delete section 1.2, which posits the same claim and for some reason cites the duplicate source?? (I hadn't noticed that section when I write my first complaint.) Benjaminrchen (talk) 19:11, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Herzog (1975) p. 37 blah, blah "... This tends to confirm the belief that the Egyptian aim was merely to gain a foothold on the east bank of the Canal. .." blah, blah.
Insight Team of the London Sunday Times (1974) p.15 "... for Egypt and Syria... their stated war aims... [Israel's] continued occupation of the lands it had seized from them in 1967." p. 88 "Militarily the objectives were the recapture of those parts... occupied by Israel... achieved in two phases... Egypt's objective was thus the retaking of a slice of Sinai along the east bank of the Suez Canal. The rest of the Sinai... would come as Israeli concessions."
Herzog (1982) p.321 "Sadat had originally launched the attack in order to break the military and political log-jam."
Gog the Mild (talk) 20:06, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
Having read the (lengthy) source referred to by footnotes 58 and 82 - don't you hate editors who don't give page numbers? - it seems to support the gist of the three sources I quoted above. I am inclined to amend the relevant sentence in the lead and the opening sentence of "Egyptian war objectives" to reflect this. Do I hear any objections?
Regarding source 58/82, see page 1: " Sadat executed a limited war to achieve Egypt’s political objective of “shaking [almost universal] belief in Israel’s invincibility and Arab impotence”, thus moving from a “no war--no peace” deadlock with Israel to opening the way for negotiation of an acceptable settlement of the Egyptian-Israeli conflict."
I note in passing that the original poster's opinion that final sentence of the first paragraph of the lead is misleading is correct. The omission of the word "stated" from a sentence otherwise given in full seriously changes the meaning. One wonders how that happened... Gog the Mild (talk) 03:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
No objection here. If you're taking amendment suggestions, I can incorporate Icewhiz's feedback into my original suggestion (emphasis for talk page only): "Egypt's initial war objective was to provoke a crisis and bring American and Soviet pressure to bear on Israel to induce the return of territories captured in the Six-Day War." Incidentally, pg. 8 of footnote 58 supports this also.
Section 1.2 is still problematic. I personally think it should be omitted entirely, as it doesn't add anything unique to the article.Benjaminrchen (talk) 02:12, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Initial or pre-war objective would be accurate. Specifically - Battle of the Sinai (1973) was a disastrous Egyptian attempt on October 14, ordered by Sadat himself (and opposed by the Egyptian high command), to advance deep into the Sinai (outside of the canal zone which was well protected by SAMs). Icewhiz (talk) 06:29, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the wording suggestion. Agree re the use of "initial". I will make some changes, let me know what you think. I very much agree re 1.2. But, something can only go in the lead if it is a summary of something said elsewhere in the text. I have a few ideas on how we might address that and some other things, but first things first. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:50, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

No Israeli attrocities?

Funny how there's an entire section of the article dedicated to Arab attrocities but not one for Israeli attrocities; and I for one don't think Israelis are excempt from brutality and unable to harm a fellow human being except in self-defense as their name indicates. Could it be the article isn't neutral after all? Or is that an impossible proposition? Can someone confirm me whether there were Israeli attrocities documented during this war or if there weren't any? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.230.65.140 (talk) 06:37, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

I personally don't know of any reliable sources covering Israeli "atrocities" or mistreatment of Egyptian/Syrian POWs during the 1973 war. I'm all for balance, but we don't get to manufacture claims on Wikipedia or push fringe viewpoints out of proportion. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 09:30, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 December 2018

Remove the High estimations for Arabs losses since the source being sited isn't reliable. Scu ba (talk) 01:24, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Which specific numbers do you want removed? Furthermore, why is the source not reliable. The relevant guideline is Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources - is there a specific section which this source violates? DannyS712 (talk) 01:40, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

doesn't mention Israeli atrocities.

why is there a section about atrocities to Israelis but not by Israelis? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:4A8F:E00:D5E8:BF23:5896:1B95 (talk) 07:34, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

what atrocities the only atrocity i could think of was that Israel didn't capture Damascus and Cairo עם ישראל חי (talk) 19:39, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
This issue comes up regularly. If you have a reliable source which mentions Israeli atrocities, please add this to the article. Or flag it up here where another editor will be happy to do so. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:46, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
I know, it's funny how there's an entire section of the article dedicated to Arab attrocities but not one for Israeli attrocities and the people commenting here, whose usernames are Hebrew sound nationalistic and biased; and I for one don't think Israelis are excempt from brutality and unable to harm a fellow human being except in self-defense as their name indicates. Could it be the article isn't neutral after all? Or is that an impossible proposition? Can someone confirm me whether there were attrocities documented during this war by the noble Israeli warriors or if there weren't any? --177.230.65.140 (talk) 06:42, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

You want Israel to commit atrocities next time, so it will be "fair"? What your point, that every bad things the arab side did, the Israelis most had been "just as bad" so you wont feel sad? I suggest that you go to an article about the massacre of Nanjing and claim that the Chinese did bad things too, you know - so it will be fair. 46.121.66.212 (talk) 13:20, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

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Prisoners of war

Annual report of the ICRC, 1973: "Under the auspices of the ICRC, repatriation operations by means of four aircraft provided by the Swiss Government were carried out from 15 to 22 November, enabling 8,300 Egyptian pri­soners of war, including 440 wounded, and three Iraqi prisoners of war, to go to Egypt, and 241 Israeli prisoners of war, including forty-seven wounded, to return to Israel. Seventy-one flights were necessary for the transport of prisoners of war from Tel Aviv to Cairo and from Cairo to Tel Aviv. The capture of two Israeli pilots by the Lebanese armed forces was notified on 12 October 1973. The ICRC delegate in Beirut visited them three times. On 31 December, Israel held 384 Syrian prisoners of war, ten Iraqi prisoners of war, six Moroccan prisoners of war, and sixty- seven Egyptian prisoners of war, captured after the end of the repatriation operations. In Syria there was an undetermined number of Israeli prisoners of war." Annual report of the ICRC, 1974: "At the beginning of 1974, there were in Israel altogether 501 Arab prisoners of war, of whom 386 were Syrians, 99 Egyptians 10 Iraqis and 6 Moroccans... " --213.57.230.186 (talk) 06:02, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 April 2019

62.215.187.148 (talk) 10:35, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

|result=Egypt military victory{{refn|See Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page).(In Arabic) details that the war was actually a draw. And both sides, Israel & Egypt never claimed victory, but they rather like to claim a draw. As to why this was a stalemate to both sides, it has been detailed that while Egyptian forces may have possibly not been able to invade Israel(Speaking of which, they still managed to invade the canal and cross Sinai), Israel's side has also managed to fail to invade through Ismailiah(See sources below). This proves to be a stalemate which was most likely the reason why it ended with the Camp David Accord. However, another argument as to why Israel would've lost the war, is the video of Moshe Dayan himself admitting to loss [1][2]. Keep in mind that Moshe Dayan was the Minister of Defense at the time, and he was the one majorly responsible for commanding the war, hence he is a primary source, and cannot be disregarded. Any attempts to disregard him as some "politician" would be subjective analysis.


As per [3][4][5], and (In arabic)[6][7] , as well as the Arabic Wikipedia entry [8]

Donyunderscorey (talk) 20:29, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeHgyDGlSYw
  2. ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2fWp0k7yKs
  3. ^ https://thearabweekly.com/remembering-october-war-46-years
  4. ^ https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/2/75543/October-War-Embodies-Defense-of-Land-Sovereignty-Kuwaiti-Amb
  5. ^ http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/352279/Egypt/Politics-/-October-war-victory-was-a-unique-demonstration-of.aspx
  6. ^ https://www.bbc.com/arabic/inthepress-49926126
  7. ^ https://www.youm7.com/story/2019/10/6/أبرز-مكاسب-اقتصادية-حققتها-الحرب-فى-ذكرى-انتصارات-أكتوبر/4446029
  8. ^ https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8_%D8%A3%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B1

Requested move 20 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 10:59, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Yom Kippur War → 1973 Arab–Israeli War – Both the names "Yom Kippur War" and "Ramadan War" is non neutral violation of WP:NPOV favoring one sides holiday. The name "1973 Arab–Israeli War" already redirecting to this article is neutral and a better summary than the non neutral name. KasimMejia (talk) 11:47, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

  • Support move, I guess. Though I'm not a fan of NPOV being used in this manner, the proposed title makes sense. O.N.R. (talk) 13:12, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Question - is there any evidence that one name is used more than the others? I've only ever heard the war referred to with the present title. While maintaining NPOV is an important consideration, you might want to consider WP:NPOVTITLE, which specifically addresses issues like this. Parsecboy (talk) 13:51, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Yom Kippur War gives 4 mil results on Google, while Ramadan War gives 30 mil results. Which is normal considering the Muslim population around in world compared to the Jewish population. 1973 Arab-Israeli War gives 3 mil results. I'd say its best to go with the neutral name 1973 Arab-Israeli War. Though Ramadan War seems to be the most common one. Most Wikipedia editors probably only heard of this name since the title was unchanged since the creation of the article. KasimMejia (talk) 14:22, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Odd; I get a smidge under 900k hits for "Yom Kippur War" and 32k hits for "Ramadan War"; "1973 Arab–Israeli War" nets about 107k hits. Are you using quotation marks in your searches? Parsecboy (talk) 15:19, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
I searched it on Scholar too and Yom Kippur War gives 44,500 results[3], 1973 Arab Israeli War gives 141,000 results[4], while Ramadan War gives 56,600 results[5]. I've linked the searches. KasimMejia (talk) 14:58, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
I am afraid that you haven't set your searches up properly. The fifth result under your search for "Ramadan War" is "Revisiting the Yom Kippur War".
Try Yom Kippur War (24,900), 1973 Arab–Israeli War (4,610) and Ramadan War (996). Gog the Mild (talk) 15:11, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
It may be the common name but its non neutral. Calling an Arab-Israeli war by its Israeli name is WP:NPOVTITLE. KasimMejia (talk) 10:35, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
I don't believe it's not neutral – it would only be POV if the title lent weight to the views of particular side on the cause or purpose of the war (for example, calling the 1948 Arab–Israeli War the "Israeli War of Independence" would not be NPOV). Simply being named after the day it started does not suggest any POV as far as I'm concerned. Number 57 11:16, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
When the subject of an article is referred to mainly by a single common name, as evidenced through usage in a significant majority of English-language reliable sources, Wikipedia generally follows the sources and uses that name as its article title [...] Sometimes that common name includes non-neutral words that Wikipedia normally avoids [...] In such cases, the prevalence of the name, or the fact that a given description has effectively become a proper noun (and that proper noun has become the usual term for the event), generally overrides concern that Wikipedia might appear as endorsing one side of an issue.
  • Google Scholar
  • Yom Kippur War: 25,000 (link)
  • Ramadan War: 1,000 (link)
  • 1973 Arab–Israeli War: 4,630 (link)
  • Google Trends shows a similar trend in non-academic web searches (link)
So 82% of the time, it is referred to as the "Yom Kippur War", meaning that is the overwhelming common name. A hatnote or paragraph in the lead should do, but WP:NPOVTITLE is clearly a rationale for the title remaining as it is.
SITH (talk) 13:05, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Egyptian Atrocities

Regarding the Egyptian atrocities section, It was stated that "The order to kill Israeli prisoners came from General Shazly, who, in a pamphlet distributed to Egyptian soldiers immediately before the war, advised his troops to kill Israeli soldiers even if they surrendered." However, This is disputed by General Shaazaly himself in an interview with Al Jazeera in 2009. So it should at least be pointed out that Shaazaly himself has denied it. It's in Arabic but it's from almost 28:19 to 29:18 from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alpzapfX5M4 LeonardoSkylar (talk) 18:53, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi LeonardoSkylar That's really interesting, but you are linking to a primary source, and so it is not usable on Wikipedia. Is this repeated elsewhere? Ideally in a scholarly publication. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 19:00, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
I have tried to look for another source but I couldn't find any and the sources that claim that general Shaazaly himself was the one to give the order were scarce and the one listed on the main page, Upon closer inspection, Actually had major faults in it that it seemed that it itself was biased from my point of view and trying to whitewash somethings. It claimed that the Israeli policy was to respect P.O.Ws and yet there are clearly documented cases of human rights violations then by the Israeli during the 1967 war and others regarding P.O.Ws. But all that aside, My original intention was to make it seem less absolute, To say that while there were Israeli reports that claim he was the one giving the orders, He personally denies them. To leave to the reader the benefit of the doubt to both sides since the Israeli media was more closely related to Western media than Arab media so that can create a sense unbalance between views and a tilt towards Israeli's claims. My intention was not to claim that it's a reputable source that denies and completely dismantles the claims but to say that it is disputed by the man that's accused himself. I don't think I will be able to find anything else of value given both the scarcity and the archaic nature of the event and that Arab governments are notorious for not releasing official documents and declassifying them about major events. So I think I made the current best case for this edit as much as I can and I hope that my intention is conveyed correctly here and the decision is up to whoever is in charge of editing and according to the guidelines of editing in wikipedia. Thank you for your time. LeonardoSkylar (talk) 23:21, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
Also, I have noticed something else that's disputed by Shazaly himself, It's said in the 'The Egyptian failed attack' section that the attacking forces were 800 tanks according to one source or 1000 tanks according to another. While they were up against 700-750 tanks according to the same two sources respectively. Shazaly says it was 400 Egyptian tanks vs 900 Israeli tanks. Not saying one or the other is correct but there are contradictions here that should be at least pointed out like it was pointed out in the Operation Badr page that one of Shazaly's claims was disputed. I think that there's systemic reliance on more easily accessible sources that end up causing problems like this. And that of course is justified given that there's no official account from the Egyptian side. LeonardoSkylar (talk) 23:04, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Find a Reliable source. (Hohum @) 00:06, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 February 2020

Egypt has won the war Israel was defeated 197.63.76.242 (talk) 12:41, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cabayi (talk) 12:47, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Soviet support?

Was the Soviet Union supporting Arabs in the war or provided direct assist? There were number of Soviet units that actually were attacking Israelites. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:52, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Cuban casualties

The figure of 180 Cuban dead and 250 wounded is the exact same figure that appears for Cuban casualties in the infobox for the War of Attrition. Can someone work out which is which?--RM (Be my friend) 21:21, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

This one. From the source cited "Cuban troops returned to the front when an Arab coalition led by Egypt and Syria launched an offensive against Israel in October 1973. Known as the Yom Kippur War ... the Cuban forces on the Golan front reportedly suffered casualties of approximately 180 killed and some 250 wounded (Ra’anan, 1981)." Gog the Mild (talk) 22:11, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
However, Ra'anan, who is cited as the source states that no Cuban troops were present for the Yom Kippur War,(Page 36) and gives these casualties for the War of Attrition.(Page 37) So I am removing the Cuban involvement from the infobox, pending anyone coming up with a reliable source. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:26, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Faulty information

There are two different stories on your website First story stating that Israel won the war against Egypt in the English language. Second story that the Egyptian army was sieged by the Israeli army as the Israeli army failed to invade Suez and Ismailia cities and this was known as Operation Abirey-lev that is in the Arabic language. I believe you have to change the false one so you can be a trusted source of information. Farida bey (talk) 01:29, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Dubious information in Events leading up to the war'

The '20000 Soviet advisors' expelled were actually regular servicemen of an anti-aircraft unit of Soviet Union. Also, the claim that Egypt only got air-defense material is contradicted in a previous paragraph, by mention of planes, tanks and missiles acquired from USSR. The claim that Soviet advisors were expelled from Egypt is questionable - and has been questioned in 'The Soviet-Israeli War' with various sources. There is evidence that Soviet troops were present in Egypt during the war. The section needs a rewrite. Teerthaloke102 (talk) 12:10, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

It appears that Soviet regulars - the air defense crew - left Egypt in 1972. They left as they tranferred control of the air defense system to Egyptian military. Two seperate sources- air defense expert Murzintsev and General Gareev - said that new advisors were arriving in Egypt - according to the former for replacement. Also, USSR continued supplying all types of weapons till and during the war. GeorgeCray (talk) 12:54, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

Correction of Israel's victory in the war Israel did not win the war

Israeli victory should be removed the right is Egypt victory as many encyclopedias says Saleh Emad (talk) 02:49, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

The Israeli victory should be removed from the results

Israel did not achieve any military victory except its siege of the third Egyptian army on the west of suez canal on the other hand Egypt achieved a victory by demolition of Bar Lev line and taking over of the eastern bank of the canal, so how it is said that Israel gained a victory. the war results is closer to a draw MOHAMED TARIQ MOHAMED HEGAZY (talk) 07:28, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

There seem to be several reliable sources for this. Demolition of Bar Lev and taking over the east bank is Operation Badr, that is, of course, a victory for Egypt. And if Egypt had kept it, maybe it would have been something between draw and victory for Egypt. But as later Israel broke the defense lines and captured some piece of the east bank and some territories on the west bank, it can't be called Egyptian victory. Maybe something between Israeli victory and draw. Don't forget also about the Syrian front that is clearly a victory for Israel. --Oloddin (talk) 06:55, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
let's get into an academic and non POV discussion regarding this point. It's an extreme point of contention and dispute every year on the 6th of October on all Arab Broadcasting outlets the fact that Wikipedia lists the results as: Military Victory for Isreal while reading the entire article there just does not seem to be any indication there was a victory so decisive to be quoted in such an assured way in the headliner, at most it could be said to be a Military victory for Isreal if based upon the number of casualties and for Egypt if based upon acquiring the strategic intent of initiating the war or something of that nature.
So, let's discuss it, how are wars decided in terms of history and loss? Numbers of casualties, numbers of victorious battles, acquiring land, or achieving goals set prior to starting war? Answering that question would directly lead to a correct answer on what should be put on the headliner Result. In terms of sources, I can gather you about 100 acceptable sources claiming absolute victory on both sides, so acquiring sources after we know what's Wikipedia's policy or the standard encyclopedia policies of stating war victors, should be the least of our concern, it's a highly debated and sensitive war thus "reliable" sources are abundant claiming both stories, that will not be an issue. So how are war results drawn for Wikipedia War articles? Especially ones that are historically proven to have been ended in a stalemate and both sides gaining particular victories and many losses, and in wars where the end comes by an international intervention rather than simple annexation of a state by another where debates would be futile. What's "military" victory anyway? Why doesn't it say Victory like all war articles? How was that conclusion drawn, and are there any other ways of being victorious that militarily in an international armed conflict? But again, I am an Egyptian and might be perceived as biased, so let's discuss it academically and factually, how are war conclusions drawn, when we do so, we can clearly edit it for the correct statement whatever that will be. Dr.EbrahimSaadawi (talk) 09:39, 7 October 2020 (UTC)


Israel did not achieve any military victory except its siege of the third Egyptian army on the west of suez canal on the other hand Egypt achieved a victory by demolition of Bar Lev line and taking over of the eastern bank of the canal, so how it is said that Israel gained a victory. the war results is closer to a draw Sherifff Ashrafff (talk) 10:15, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

I assume there's some reason for all these new editors here

Could it be this article? I can't read much of it. Doug Weller talk 18:53, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

I have no political sympathy in the Arab-Israeli conflict. Teerthaloke102 (talk) 09:15, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Flags

The flags in the infobox are unhelpful because Egypt and Syria both used the Federation of Arab Republics flag in 1973. I suggest using anachronistic flags, and explaining why with a footnote. jnestorius(talk) 15:34, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

big bias

There is a big bias on this page that favors the Israeli point of view, just as the majority of sources are Jews or Zionists who support Israel. The first notable prejudice is the number of participating forces, which I mentioned as a million Arabs against 200,000 Israelis. In fact, this is a comprehensive number of all Arab armies. Actually, soldiers how foughg in battles do not exceed 300,000, and there are minimizing Israeli losses. Arab sources are: from 9,000 to 10,000 dead and 20,000 wounded. check:Edgar O'Ballance. No Victor, No Vanquished. p. 265 and 30 حديث المشير أحمد إسماعيل حول بعض جوانب حرب أكتوبر بصحيفة الأهرام". موسوعة المقاتل. 14-10-1974. مؤرشف من الأصل في 6 نوفمبر 2016. اطلع عليه بتاريخ 05 نوفمبر 2016. Hyi9900 (talk) 21:24, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes I also heard in a documentary that Israeli dead were around 9,000 and not 2800 stated in this Wikipedia page Nlivataye (talk) 09:11, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 November 2020

Ottomanempire192 (talk) 15:02, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Decisive Egyptian Military Victory

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Ed talk! 15:04, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Chaim Herzog and Israeli propaganda

Herzog tells us that during the war the Arabs lost 334 aircraft in air-to air combat, i quote from the page "334 of these aircraft were shot down by the Israeli Air Force in air-to-air combat for the loss of only five Israeli planes"

So, in air-to-air combat Israel only lost 5 aircraft, and shot down 334 Arab aircraft... (those were Mig-21s, Mirages VS F4 Phantoms and Mirages, it wasn't F-22 raptor vs Mig21, those were close range engagements)

What i want to say is, is this a joke? How long will it take for us to fix this reference bias in all Arab-Israeli wars, especially the Yom Kippur? It's so disgustingly biased it doesn't even make sense, it's actually hilarious, but these 'historians' or 'authors' (actually the former president of Israel himself and a military general) are cited here and supposed to be credible and unbiased!! It completely ignores things we know took place such as "The Air Battle of Mansoura" and the repeated and expected (failed) attempts by Israel to destroy Egyptian airbases, but of course your credible historians don't mention this (and they probably deny any attempts by Israel to destroy Egyptian airbases) because they get their "accurate, credible historical information" from Israeli sources (like Chaim Herzog), be it Israeli authors, historians, or Israeli military/government. But the Egyptian/Soviet sources are yikes! biased! they exaggerate! which is basically the exaggerated information we are getting from the Israeli sources (and American historians get their info from Israeli sources). The Egyptians unfortunately failed to accomplish what Israel did by reaching out to the world and sharing their POV of events.

But yeah, let's spread the Israeli propaganda on Wikipedia, they are god-like pilots and god-like warriors.Wasteland1 (talk) 05:01, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

I agree that we shouldn't rely on first-party sources like Herzog. However, the way forward is to bring high quality independent sources. Do you have some in mind? Zerotalk 05:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
Unfortunately It's not possible to provide independent sources, because the sources have to either get the information from Egyptian or Israeli sources, Israel succeeded and worked on sharing their POV with the world (with the help of the US), and it's the POV we see here on Wiki from Israeli and American historians/authors/government and others, Egypt failed the history war. What i find to be possible is sharing both POVs (or claims) of the events (everything) with or without excluding bits of information that seem exaggerated or don't make sense according to the capabilities at the time (such as Herzog's claims, that's disgusting). American sources for example accept the Israeli exaggerations as 'facts' or 'possible', but they denounce the Egyptian/Soviet claims calling it propaganda or flat out call them liars. Both should be looked at as liars equally (the US knows Israel best, take the USS Liberty incident for example, but they still covered it up to not embarrass Israel even when it directly affected them) What I'm trying to say is, of course we know and expect the US bias towards Israel, and towards their military equipment, etc...This is just too complicated tbh.Wasteland1 (talk) 05:48, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 December 2020

As a wikipedia contributer, I noticed a lot of uprising on social media about how one-sided this specific article was against Egypt when it comes to 'Result of War'

The article result contradicts the two other wikipedia articles on this war, which are much more nutreal. A lot more accurate version that I have seen is in (https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War), (https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8_%D8%A3%D9%83%D8%AA%D9%88%D8%A8%D8%B1) as well as the Egyptian victory side of the war entirely mentioned in ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Badr_(1973) ), claiming Yom Kippur War as an Israeli victory is false information since Israel was victorious on the Syrian front but not on the Egyptian front. It was a stalemate in Sinai which led to the agreement between both countries, both Arabs and Israel claimed victory though no military victory can be announced for the entireirty of Yom Kippur/October War. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]

Wikipedia is supposed to be a nutreal encyclopedia, when it comes to war simply, using Israeli sources and books only for declaration of the winner is not okay and has offended loads of people online, please check my sources and consider the following changes:

Under the Infobox, 'Result':

Change "Israeli military victory" to "Egyptian victory on the Egyptian front and Israeli victory on the Syrian front"

Change/Add "1979 Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty"

The article also condradicts itself as I quote from the article "The war began with a massive and successful Egyptian crossing of the Suez Canal. Egyptian forces crossed the cease-fire lines, then advanced virtually unopposed into the Sinai Peninsula. After three days, Israel had mobilized most of its forces and halted the Egyptian offensive, resulting in a military stalemate." It was an Egyptian victory on the Egyptian front, Israeli victory on the Syrian front. Therefore the overall result of the war in the infobox should not be "Israeli victory". Very biased and misleading.

Thank you. Ziad Rashad (talk) 19:14, 20 December 2020 (UTC) Ed6767 Jonesey95

References

  1. ^ https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/10/8/the-october-arab-israeli-war-of-1973-what-happened#:~:text=Both%20the%20Arabs%20and%20Israel,the%20Israeli%20parliament%2C%20the%20Knesset.
  2. ^ https://www.euronews.com/2013/10/06/a-short-history-of-october-6-1973
  3. ^ https://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2013/10/09/The-legacy-of-the-October-war-in-Egypt-and-Israel
  4. ^ https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1997/Moulton.htm
  5. ^ https://thearabweekly.com/remembering-october-war-46-years
  6. ^ https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-look-at-the-landmark-egypt-israel-peace-treaty-sealed-40-years-ago/
 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. Please also find better reliable sources. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 14:15, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, sure thing. My point is simple: if it wasn't for the war then Sinai would have remained an Israeli land to this day. Since Egyptians had an upperhand in the war they managed to get a deal and reclaim Sinai after the attacks, Syria on the other hand had lost the war and that's why Golan Heights are still under Israeli occupation to this day. When Egyptian forces crossed to Sinai and got circled by Israelis, Soviet Union threatned to send troops for Egypt's aid and after that the US threatened with nuclear bombs. Therefore, it was simply a stalemate but Egypt had the upperhand in the negotiations since Sinai was already breached. (the attack was only halted by Israel until Russia and USA interfered)

Summary: Egyptians won the peace treaty by crossing Sinai and leaving no option other than a treaty to take the rest of Sinai without more loss of lives. And Syrians have lost the Golan Heights, to this day it is occupied by Israel.

The 'Result' inside the 'infobox' seems to account for Israel's win against Syria only. So once again, please change "Israeli Military victory" to "Egyptian victory on the Egyptian front and Israeli victory on the Syrian front"

I also forgot to mention that it is very biased to use only Israeli and American sources for the article, I could mention 30 Arab or Soviet sources that are reliable in the Arab world and all of them talk about Egypt's victory and stalemate in Sinai. But I won't do that, I'll link American and Israeli sources that say the same thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ziad Rashad (talk • contribs) 02:16, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Sources:

CIA https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/international-relations/arab-israeli-war/nixon-arab-isaeli-war.pdf

BBC documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icaeBubBbDg

https://2001-2009.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dr/97192.htm

"No Victor, No Vanquished" Edgar O'Ballance, pg. 161 & 162 https://docs.google.com/viewer?embedded=true&url=http://www.hativa14.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Edgar_Oballance.pdf

"The truth is that the October War, militarily speaking, was a standoff. Even though the Egyptians gained some 300 square miles of Israeli-held Sinai on the east bank of the canal, the Syrians lost almost the same amount of terrain in the north. Politically speaking, the war drastically changed the situation in the Middle East from the almost crystallised one of No Peace, No War, to one of No Victor, No Vanquished."

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/reports/2006/R1864.pdf

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-state-department-summary-of-the-yom-kippur-war

Moreover, the first battle of the war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Badr) was a decisive Egyptian victory.

Last two major battles of the war before United States ceasefire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ismailia) and (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Suez) were also both an Egyptian victory.

Ziad Rashad (talk) 02:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: @Ziad Rashad:, repeating your argument is not "establishing a consensus". You need to open a separate section here, possibly as a Request for Comments, that will establish (or not) that there is a substantial agreement among interested editors that the proposed changes are necessary and comply with the Core Content Policies. I suggest reading this instruction section and this essay for advice on how to go about creating this discussion. I hope that helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:55, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

The casaulties needs adjustment

Instead of saying that "1,063 Israeli tanks were destroyed, damaged or captured", you should state "400 tanks destroyed, 63 tanks captured", because almost all tanks that were damaged in fact returned to active service within a week. IdanST-EDITOR (talk) 13:19, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Actually the number is much higher than 1,063, you should replace "returned to service" with "replaced with new tanks from US inventory" Wasteland1 (talk) 08:49, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Or both of you should put up sources for your claims if you want the article to actually be changed to reflect said claims. Right now, this is just two armchair historians talking at each other, and no reason for us to think either of you is correct and not just pushing your own ideological viewpoints. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 15:36, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm not pushing anything, everyone with a little bit of knowledge about this matter knows about Nickel Grass and the US replacing Israeli losses with equipment directly from their own inventory. Wasteland1 (talk) 23:50, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
The standard of Wikipedia editing isn't "everybody knows this," you must provide reliable sources for any claim. Besides which, your claim isn't that the US replaced Israeli losses with equipment from the US inventory, but that tanks claimed to be damaged, but not destroyed, and claimed to be returned to service in fact weren't returned to service, but were in fact destroyed and replaced with entirely different vehicles. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 21:51, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Rfc about the result section in the infobox

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Consensus against this change, due to lack of verifiable, reliable sources cited to support it. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 07:07, 14 March 2021 (UTC)


In the infobox 'result', shouldn't it be called a stalemate on the Egyptian front and Syrian loss on the Syrian front? As per the article itself mentions. Ziad Rashad (talk) 17:12, 28 February 2021 (UTC) -It looks fine as it is. Eccekevin (talk) 01:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

  • Comment: "As per the article itself mentions." Policy states that Wikipedia is not a reliable source. What RSs are you offering to support the suggested changes? Without them this RfC is dead on arrival. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:27, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Support Clearly the Egyptian front was a stalemate with both countries controlling new territory in both sides and it should include a stalemate in the info box Ridax2020 (talk) 10:28, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "The October Arab-Israeli War of 1973: What happened?". www.aljazeera.com. Retrieved 2021-03-06.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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