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:''The following is an archived discussion of a [[Wikipedia:featured article candidates|featured article nomination]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in [[Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates]]. No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The article was '''not promoted''' by [[User:Karanacs|Karanacs]] 16:51, 15 June 2011 [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=434436838]. |
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===[[Fluorine]]=== |
===[[Fluorine]]=== |
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<s>'''Oppose''' until multiple referencing issues have been fixed. [[User:Nikkimaria|Nikkimaria]] ([[User talk:Nikkimaria|talk]]) 19:47, 28 April 2011 (UTC)</s> |
<s>'''Oppose''' until multiple referencing issues have been fixed. [[User:Nikkimaria|Nikkimaria]] ([[User talk:Nikkimaria|talk]]) 19:47, 28 April 2011 (UTC)</s> |
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'''Support'''—My concerns were addressed. |
'''Support'''—My concerns were addressed. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:RJHall|RJHall]] ([[User talk:RJHall|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/RJHall|contribs]]) 15:02, May 5, 2011</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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<s>'''Comment'''</s>—I reviewed this article during the PR process and it seemed in decent shape. <s>Here's a few minor concerns:</s> |
<s>'''Comment'''</s>—I reviewed this article during the PR process and it seemed in decent shape. <s>Here's a few minor concerns:</s> |
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* <s>"The high affinity for electrons of fluorine...". Should this be "The high affinity of fluorine for electrons"? Otherwise it seems ambiguous.</s> |
* <s>"The high affinity for electrons of fluorine...". Should this be "The high affinity of fluorine for electrons"? Otherwise it seems ambiguous.</s> |
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**The only thing left is the category link - can that be piped, or is it intentional? [[User:Canada Hky|Canada Hky]] ([[User talk:Canada Hky|talk]]) 19:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC) |
**The only thing left is the category link - can that be piped, or is it intentional? [[User:Canada Hky|Canada Hky]] ([[User talk:Canada Hky|talk]]) 19:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''Support <s>Oppose for now</s>''' I'm a chemist by training, so I'm not unsympathetic, but some ref comments before I even look at the text < |
*'''Support <s>Oppose for now</s>''' I'm a chemist by training, so I'm not unsympathetic, but some ref comments before I even look at the text <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 07:19, 6 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>using the "language=" parameter is neater and preferred to "language icon"</s> |
:*<s>using the "language=" parameter is neater and preferred to "language icon"</s> |
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:** No. The language= parameter causes the language to be lost among the citation text, while the language icon bolds it and can be placed at the front of the citation so that the readers clearly sees it, making it easier to determine how much of the article is non-English sourced. The language= parameter is not preferred, at least by the delegate who has to close the FAC :) [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy< |
:** No. The language= parameter causes the language to be lost among the citation text, while the language icon bolds it and can be placed at the front of the citation so that the readers clearly sees it, making it easier to determine how much of the article is non-English sourced. The language= parameter is not preferred, at least by the delegate who has to close the FAC :) [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<span style="color:green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 13:03, 6 May 2011 (UTC) |
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::*I changed to language = because I was criticised fro using the icon at FAC (: 06:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
::*I changed to language = because I was criticised fro using the icon at FAC (: 06:38, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*journal names should not be abbreviated, also best to spell out WHO |
:*journal names should not be abbreviated, also best to spell out WHO |
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:*:Could you please point to a guideline saying that "journal names should not be abbreviated" (I would agree that in full they are clearer, but the entire world abbreviates them in science - some are really unwieldy in full) [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 04:11, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:Could you please point to a guideline saying that "journal names should not be abbreviated" (I would agree that in full they are clearer, but the entire world abbreviates them in science - some are really unwieldy in full) [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 04:11, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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::*I don't know if there is a specific guideline, but you're inconsistent, abbreviating some and not others, at least one journal is given in both styles. Spelling out is more transparent, this isn't a paper encyclopaedia so length of name is immaterial < |
::*I don't know if there is a specific guideline, but you're inconsistent, abbreviating some and not others, at least one journal is given in both styles. Spelling out is more transparent, this isn't a paper encyclopaedia so length of name is immaterial <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 06:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:::How do you justify having ''both'' styles, even for the same journal eg ''Inorganic Chemistry'' and ''Inorg. Chem.''? < |
:::How do you justify having ''both'' styles, even for the same journal eg ''Inorganic Chemistry'' and ''Inorg. Chem.''? <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 16:34, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>Russian cited text, please transliterate from Cyrillic to Roman alphabet (as you have done with the authors) or translate as ''Chemical properties of inorganic substances. Chemistry'' Who is the publisher? also Timatov ref needs transliteration</s> |
:*<s>Russian cited text, please transliterate from Cyrillic to Roman alphabet (as you have done with the authors) or translate as ''Chemical properties of inorganic substances. Chemistry'' Who is the publisher? also Timatov ref needs transliteration</s> |
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:*:For USSR Academy of Sciences works publisher given (which is the Academy itself). Translitaretion is always given rather than translate - as for French links--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:For USSR Academy of Sciences works publisher given (which is the Academy itself). Translitaretion is always given rather than translate - as for French links--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*capitalisation style of article titles seems random, please aim for consistency |
:*capitalisation style of article titles seems random, please aim for consistency |
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:*:Hold on. The article titles are (were) kept as they were published, and I thought we must keep that on wikipedia. Am I missing something? [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 13:40, 6 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:Hold on. The article titles are (were) kept as they were published, and I thought we must keep that on wikipedia. Am I missing something? [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 13:40, 6 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*:: Yes, you did miss something ... see [[WP:ALLCAPS]], we reduce to title case. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy< |
:*:: Yes, you did miss something ... see [[WP:ALLCAPS]], we reduce to title case. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<span style="color:green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 14:22, 6 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*:::How is ALLCAPS relevant here? I thought we are talking about "Capitalizing Titles in Journal Articles" and "Capitalizing titles in journal articles" issue. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 03:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:::How is ALLCAPS relevant here? I thought we are talking about "Capitalizing Titles in Journal Articles" and "Capitalizing titles in journal articles" issue. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 03:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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::::*Again, it's a matter of consistency. You are not bound by the house styled of the journals, so adopt a uniform approach, title case being preferred as more natural and reading better < |
::::*Again, it's a matter of consistency. You are not bound by the house styled of the journals, so adopt a uniform approach, title case being preferred as more natural and reading better <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 06:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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::::*:Frankly, my major issue is wasting time: many (if not most) journal titles are fetched by the citation bot from Crossref, which copies it from the publisher, I believe. Two minor things. (i) We have to keep typos in the titles if any (this happens), that is, the title is a sort of quote, so why force its style (allcaps aside)? (ii) Some words do change meaning when (de)capitalized, which is why forcing blind lowcase/uppercase conversion can potentially introduce errors. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 07:18, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
::::*:Frankly, my major issue is wasting time: many (if not most) journal titles are fetched by the citation bot from Crossref, which copies it from the publisher, I believe. Two minor things. (i) We have to keep typos in the titles if any (this happens), that is, the title is a sort of quote, so why force its style (allcaps aside)? (ii) Some words do change meaning when (de)capitalized, which is why forcing blind lowcase/uppercase conversion can potentially introduce errors. [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 07:18, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:* some web refs lack publishers |
:* some web refs lack publishers |
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:*publisher wrong for ref 47, Peter Meiers self-published |
:*publisher wrong for ref 47, Peter Meiers self-published |
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:*:Even through he might hold the given source, publishing from your own source gives you a publisher of your source, but not you ''personally''--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:Even through he might hold the given source, publishing from your own source gives you a publisher of your source, but not you ''personally''--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*:: Self-published: what makes him meet [[WP:SPS]]? [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy< |
:*:: Self-published: what makes him meet [[WP:SPS]]? [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<span style="color:green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 04:12, 27 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*::: He has been published in other journals or similar, for example, [http://www.fluorideresearch.org/441/files/FJ2011_v44_n1_p00i-iii_sfs.pdf here] and [http://pubget.com/search?q=authors%3A%22Peter%20Meiers%22 here], so it meets the criteria set. BTW, everything there is sourced--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 12:48, 27 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*::: He has been published in other journals or similar, for example, [http://www.fluorideresearch.org/441/files/FJ2011_v44_n1_p00i-iii_sfs.pdf here] and [http://pubget.com/search?q=authors%3A%22Peter%20Meiers%22 here], so it meets the criteria set. BTW, everything there is sourced--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 12:48, 27 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>author initials, full stops for all or none</s> |
:*<s>author initials, full stops for all or none</s> |
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:*<s>not a ref issue - "found" occurs twice in second sentence of lead, use "occurs" to avoid repetition</s> |
:*<s>not a ref issue - "found" occurs twice in second sentence of lead, use "occurs" to avoid repetition</s> |
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:*:Done--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:Done--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 18:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*In addition to the comments above, third para of lead has something badly wrong in last couple of sentences < |
:*In addition to the comments above, third para of lead has something badly wrong in last couple of sentences <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 16:44, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>last para of physical, second sentence, what does "this" refer back to? Can't see a singular subjec</s>t < |
:*<s>last para of physical, second sentence, what does "this" refer back to? Can't see a singular subjec</s>t <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 16:48, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>'' including palladium(VI)[15] and platinum(VI),[16] which can be received via direct reaction'' — received? and again later</s>.< |
:*<s>'' including palladium(VI)[15] and platinum(VI),[16] which can be received via direct reaction'' — received? and again later</s>.<b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 16:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>via extremely hard reaction at'' — clarify please</s> < |
:*<s>via extremely hard reaction at'' — clarify please''</s> <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 16:53, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*alkali metals... notable for bonding — grammar or meaning problem here < |
:*alkali metals... notable for bonding — grammar or meaning problem here <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 18:48, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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::*''alkaline earth metals do not react violently, but nevertheless at room temperature.'' — still a problem, "nevertheless" should be followed by a clause telling us something else. |
::*''alkaline earth metals do not react violently, but nevertheless at room temperature.'' — still a problem, "nevertheless" should be followed by a clause telling us something else. |
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::*:Are these two better now?--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 17:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
::*:Are these two better now?--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 17:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>''Since the fluorides of virtually all elements are '''known''', a large variety of inorganic fluorides are '''known'''''</s>. |
:*<s>''Since the fluorides of virtually all elements are '''known''', a large variety of inorganic fluorides are '''known'''''</s>. |
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:*:I believe these six are addressed--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 19:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:I believe these six are addressed--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 19:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:* I've not finished going through yet, but I've made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fluorine&diff=428120106&oldid=428093024 these edits]. I think an independent copyedit might be a good idea. More comments to come when I've read the rest < |
:* I've not finished going through yet, but I've made [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fluorine&diff=428120106&oldid=428093024 these edits]. I think an independent copyedit might be a good idea. More comments to come when I've read the rest <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 18:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*:Thanks! I've just corrected a bit, but still thanks, that's useful--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 19:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:Thanks! I've just corrected a bit, but still thanks, that's useful--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 19:51, 8 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*<s>''Fluorine replaces hydrogen in hydrocarbons even at room temperature without significant change of molecular size'' Why is temperature relevant to molecular size?</s> |
:*<s>''Fluorine replaces hydrogen in hydrocarbons even at room temperature without significant change of molecular size'' Why is temperature relevant to molecular size?</s> |
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:*:OK, you may be right, but I can't think of anything better than we have now. Suggestions?--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 17:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*:OK, you may be right, but I can't think of anything better than we have now. Suggestions?--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 17:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*::Done--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 19:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*::Done--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 19:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*that's it! Just the two items just added, and the alkali metal issue above, and we are done, I look forward to supporting soon < |
:*that's it! Just the two items just added, and the alkali metal issue above, and we are done, I look forward to supporting soon <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 06:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
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::* You don't ''have'' to have a "See Also", I rarely do in my FACs, and it shouldn't repeat links or spurious connections like caesium. However, enough has been done to garner my support, changed above < |
::* You don't ''have'' to have a "See Also", I rarely do in my FACs, and it shouldn't repeat links or spurious connections like caesium. However, enough has been done to garner my support, changed above <b style="font-family:chiller; color:red;">[[User:Jimfbleak|<span style="color:red;">Jimfbleak</span>]] - </b>[[User talk:Jimfbleak|<span style="font-family:arial; color:green;"> talk to me?</span>]] 12:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:*One more thing: we should also have a picture of gaseous fluorine in there (reqphoto template). [http://periodictable.com/Items/009.5/index.html]? After all, [[:File:Thorium crystal.jpg]] was accepted. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 12:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
:*One more thing: we should also have a picture of gaseous fluorine in there (reqphoto template). [http://periodictable.com/Items/009.5/index.html]? After all, [[:File:Thorium crystal.jpg]] was accepted. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 12:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' per mav. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 11:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
*'''Support''' per mav. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 11:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC) |
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*R8R Gtrs has stated [[#top|above]] that he supports as nominator. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 08:02, 11 May 2011 (UTC) |
*R8R Gtrs has stated [[#top|above]] that he supports as nominator. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 08:02, 11 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:* Nominator support is implied. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy< |
:* Nominator support is implied. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<span style="color:green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 04:23, 27 May 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' ~~[[User:ebe123|<span style="color:#21421E;font-weight:bold">EBE123</span>]]~~ <sup>[[User talk:Ebe123|<span style="color:#0000FF">talk</span>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ebe123|Contribs]]</sub> 14:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC) |
*'''Support''' ~~[[User:ebe123|<span style="color:#21421E;font-weight:bold">EBE123</span>]]~~ <sup>[[User talk:Ebe123|<span style="color:#0000FF">talk</span>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Ebe123|Contribs]]</sub> 14:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''Support''' The quality, referencing and the language are up to the level I like.--[[User:Stone|Stone]] ([[User talk:Stone|talk]]) 17:44, 17 May 2011 (UTC) |
*'''Support''' The quality, referencing and the language are up to the level I like.--[[User:Stone|Stone]] ([[User talk:Stone|talk]]) 17:44, 17 May 2011 (UTC) |
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Has there been an image review? Spot checks for WP:V and close paraphrasing not done? Please review self-published sourcing concern. The term "fluoride" is introduced in the lead before the distinction between flourine and flouride is explained. More review needed; independent review needed. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy< |
Has there been an image review? Spot checks for WP:V and close paraphrasing not done? Please review self-published sourcing concern. The term "fluoride" is introduced in the lead before the distinction between flourine and flouride is explained. More review needed; independent review needed. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<span style="color:green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 04:33, 27 May 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''Tentative and conditional support<s>Comments''' beginning a look-over now. Will jot queries below: [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 09:49, 27 May 2011 (UTC)</s> based on the lead having the jack-boot of brilliant prose workover applied to it well - plaudits for all who gave it a workover in the past week. This support is pending (probably fairly straightforward) referencing issues to be addressed below. [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:58, 6 June 2011 (UTC) |
*'''Tentative and conditional support'''<s>'''Comments''' beginning a look-over now. Will jot queries below: [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 09:49, 27 May 2011 (UTC)</s> based on the lead having the jack-boot of brilliant prose workover applied to it well - plaudits for all who gave it a workover in the past week. This support is pending (probably fairly straightforward) referencing issues to be addressed below. [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 00:58, 6 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''image review''' - FUR for first two accepted - the element appears difficult to photograph! <s>Others ok, apart from [[:File:Henri Moissan.jpg]] as we don't know who the author is and he might have died sooner than 70 years ago...?</s> [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 09:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC) |
*'''image review''' - FUR for first two accepted - the element appears difficult to photograph! <s>Others ok, apart from [[:File:Henri Moissan.jpg]] as we don't know who the author is and he might have died sooner than 70 years ago...?</s> [[User:Casliber|Casliber]] ([[User talk:Casliber|talk]] '''·''' [[Special:Contributions/Casliber|contribs]]) 09:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:Hi back! I've rewritten the lead, so please go and check it out, comments are welcome. About the infobox photo, I don't like it, because the gas there is ... brown, but it's actually yellow-green. I'll think about removing the image. |
:Hi back! I've rewritten the lead, so please go and check it out, comments are welcome. About the infobox photo, I don't like it, because the gas there is ... brown, but it's actually yellow-green. I'll think about removing the image. |
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::I have another picture of fluorine around from the Periodic Table of Videos. The gaseous one is uninteresting: the liquid one seems redundant though. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 09:55, 30 May 2011 (UTC) |
::I have another picture of fluorine around from the Periodic Table of Videos. The gaseous one is uninteresting: the liquid one seems redundant though. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 09:55, 30 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:::By the way |
:::By the way, doesn't the description of F say "tan or yellow gas"?? That photo's tan, isn't it? [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 09:57, 30 May 2011 (UTC) |
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::::I believe "tan" comes only from the picture. If no reference will be given in several days, I'll remove the image. I'll maybe add a steam of gaseous element instead--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 16:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC) |
::::I believe "tan" comes only from the picture. If no reference will be given in several days, I'll remove the image. I'll maybe add a steam of gaseous element instead--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 16:54, 30 May 2011 (UTC) |
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:::::No it doesn't. In fact, the description dates from [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_fluorine&diff=prev&oldid=356085893 15 April 2010]. (If you were wondering about the [[:File:Fluorine.jpg]] there, they were referring to [http://images-of-elements.com/fluorine.jpg this], which used to have the "Fluorine.jpg" filename.) [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 05:12, 31 May 2011 (UTC) |
:::::No it doesn't. In fact, the description dates from [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_fluorine&diff=prev&oldid=356085893 15 April 2010]. (If you were wondering about the [[:File:Fluorine.jpg]] there, they were referring to [http://images-of-elements.com/fluorine.jpg this], which used to have the "Fluorine.jpg" filename.) [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 05:12, 31 May 2011 (UTC) |
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*:::I think this is a particular case that is different. The "authors" are not really co-authors in the sense of someone writing a book, but writers of sections within that overall thing. Also, it is MUCH more commonly recognized by the Ullman "brand". (Do a Google search and see.) [[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]]) 17:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC) |
*:::I think this is a particular case that is different. The "authors" are not really co-authors in the sense of someone writing a book, but writers of sections within that overall thing. Also, it is MUCH more commonly recognized by the Ullman "brand". (Do a Google search and see.) [[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]]) 17:34, 4 June 2011 (UTC) |
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'''Lead |
'''Lead is good.''' I reviewed the article's lead, and I am now satisfied with the material presented therein. The details of my review can be found on the [[Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Fluorine/archive2|FAC talk page]]. --'''[[User:Cryptic C62|Cryptic C62]] · [[User talk: Cryptic C62|Talk]]''' 16:16, 12 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>"represented by the symbol F" I suggest linking "symbol" to [[chemical symbol]]</s> |
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*<s>"It is similar to, but even more reactive than elemental chlorine, the next lightest halogen." The laws of commas dictate that you must either remove the comma after "similar to" or add one after "than"</s> |
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:*Done.--[[User:Stone|Stone]] ([[User talk:Stone|talk]]) 13:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>"Fluorine forms stable compounds with all other elements in which the reaction has been attempted" Replace "elements in which" with "elements for which".</s> |
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:*Done.--[[User:Stone|Stone]] ([[User talk:Stone|talk]]) 13:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>"almost all of which are water soluble." I suggest linking "water soluble" to [[solubility]].</s> |
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:*Done.--[[User:Stone|Stone]] ([[User talk:Stone|talk]]) 13:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>"Hydrogen fluoride forms a weak acid in water, but is nonetheless extremely corrosive (dissolving glass)." I am against the use of parenthetical comments in the lead. The lead is designed to summarize the most important points of the article. Either include the tidbit in an actual sentence (not optimal, as it isn't all that important) or drop it altogether.</s> |
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:*removed parenthetical comments.--[[User:Stone|Stone]] ([[User talk:Stone|talk]]) 13:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*"to lowering the melting point of slags in processing of ores." Need to has more grammars! |
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:*migth :''lower the melting point of slags in ore smelting'' work.--[[User:Stone|Stone]] ([[User talk:Stone|talk]]) 13:27, 5 June 2011 (UTC) |
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::*This is already a long sentence, so rather than trying to tweak this phrase to make it fit, how about removing it altogether? --'''[[User:Cryptic C62|Cryptic C62]] · [[User talk: Cryptic C62|Talk]]''' 22:03, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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:::*I simplified it and removed some detail (covered deeper in article). We could also cut it entirely, but I think there is a desire for every lead to say where an element got its name.[[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]]) 22:35, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>"Several chemists were injured or killed trying to isolate the element." Somewhat mysterious, and again, I'm not sure that this is important enough to be mentioned in the lead; it just seems like a fun tidbit rather than a crucial piece of information. If you insist on including it, it would be helpful to actually say why/how the chemists were killed. Spontaneous combustion?</s> |
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*:Removed--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 15:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>"Despite its well-established role in the prevention of dental caries, fluorine is not considered an essential mineral element for mammals, including humans." What about non-mammal critters?</s> |
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*:OK now?--[[User:R8R Gtrs|R8R Gtrs]] ([[User talk:R8R Gtrs|talk]]) 15:06, 5 June 2011 (UTC) |
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A few nits but leaning toward ''support'': |
A few nits but leaning toward ''support'': |
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*Firstly the lead image in the infobox illustrates the subject just fine, its the licensing that needs to be looked at. Firstly it is claimed as fair-use as a poster, while I can see why this was done, it isn't technically a poster but is a promotional shot of a product that was sold on Ebay. Second, the blueish blur in the bottom-right hand corner of the image is actually a watermark that appears on other images from the same source which would have read "Copyright © 2008 Theodore W. Gray" before it was blurred out. Now the file description claims that the photographer has "sole and exclusive right and licence to produce, publish and further license the image" which is correct but the image is copyrighted and there is no indication that Theodore Gray has allowed use of his image. It seems to me that the watermark has been blurred to hide the copyright notice and claim use of the image under fair-use. While the image may sketchily pass as fair use as being a irreplaceable image, for a lead image of a potential FA some effort should be made to contact the photographer to see if they will release the image under a free license, ideally via [[Commons:OTRS]]. This isn't a major issue but it would certainly be better if the first image readers see of a possible FA isn't a fair-use image with a watermark across it. |
*Firstly the lead image in the infobox illustrates the subject just fine, its the licensing that needs to be looked at. Firstly it is claimed as fair-use as a poster, while I can see why this was done, it isn't technically a poster but is a promotional shot of a product that was sold on Ebay. Second, the blueish blur in the bottom-right hand corner of the image is actually a watermark that appears on other images from the same source which would have read "Copyright © 2008 Theodore W. Gray" before it was blurred out. Now the file description claims that the photographer has "sole and exclusive right and licence to produce, publish and further license the image" which is correct but the image is copyrighted and there is no indication that Theodore Gray has allowed use of his image. It seems to me that the watermark has been blurred to hide the copyright notice and claim use of the image under fair-use. While the image may sketchily pass as fair use as being a irreplaceable image, for a lead image of a potential FA some effort should be made to contact the photographer to see if they will release the image under a free license, ideally via [[Commons:OTRS]]. This isn't a major issue but it would certainly be better if the first image readers see of a possible FA isn't a fair-use image with a watermark across it. |
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**As I am the uploader, I feel I need to explain...no, it wasn't blurred out by me, I just took the smallest size I could get (http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/009.5/index.s7.html). Have a look at the normal size (http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/009.5/index.s12.html) and the copyright notice is still there. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 05:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
**As I am the uploader, I feel I need to explain...no, it wasn't blurred out by me, I just took the smallest size I could get (http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/009.5/index.s7.html). Have a look at the normal size (http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Samples/009.5/index.s12.html) and the copyright notice is still there. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 05:39, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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***Fair enough, I see what you mean, apologies for jumping to conclusions ;) While fair use image is ok, still would be better if we could get a free version, looks like TCO may have a go at this. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| |
***Fair enough, I see what you mean, apologies for jumping to conclusions ;) While fair use image is ok, still would be better if we could get a free version, looks like TCO may have a go at this. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| <b style="color:#3CB371">✉</b>]] 15:00, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*There is a similar issue with the file [[:File:Fluorine liquid.jpg|Fluorine liquid.jpg]] which has had a copyright watermark cropped off and is also claimed fair-use as a poster, which it clearly isn't. |
*<s>There is a similar issue with the file [[:File:Fluorine liquid.jpg|Fluorine liquid.jpg]] which has had a copyright watermark cropped off and is also claimed fair-use as a poster, which it clearly isn't</s>. |
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**I got a donation for this and FS cleaned it up visually as well (progress!)[[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]]) 17:56, 12 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>[[:File:Fluorite crystals (rotated 90).jpg]] has bigger issues. This is a derivative work of a copyrighted image [[:File:Fluorite crystals 270x444.jpg]] which has somehow survived on Commons since 2005. The file description of this acknowledges the copyright but is published as CC-By-SA 3.0 by the uploader [[User:Jurema Oliveira]], who is not the author so they have no claim over the image or what license to publish it by. So this image shouldn't even be on Commons and should instead, it at all be on Wikipedia as fair-use.</s> |
*<s>[[:File:Fluorite crystals (rotated 90).jpg]] has bigger issues. This is a derivative work of a copyrighted image [[:File:Fluorite crystals 270x444.jpg]] which has somehow survived on Commons since 2005. The file description of this acknowledges the copyright but is published as CC-By-SA 3.0 by the uploader [[User:Jurema Oliveira]], who is not the author so they have no claim over the image or what license to publish it by. So this image shouldn't even be on Commons and should instead, it at all be on Wikipedia as fair-use.</s> |
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:Done image has been replaced. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| |
:Done image has been replaced. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| <b style="color:#3CB371">✉</b>]] 14:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*<s>Another image that could use some clarification in its file description is [[:File:Henri Moissan.jpg]]. While it is likely the image is in the public domain because of its apparent age, there is no link to a source to confirm its status. </s> |
*<s>Another image that could use some clarification in its file description is [[:File:Henri Moissan.jpg]]. While it is likely the image is in the public domain because of its apparent age, there is no link to a source to confirm its status. </s> |
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:Sorted. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| |
:Sorted. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| <b style="color:#3CB371">✉</b>]] 14:51, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*And what's going on with [[:File:Fluorine cell room.jpg]] I'm not sure. It is again claimed as PD but while it appears as though the uploader may be a employee of the company there isn't confirmation of this and it doesn't mean they have the permission to release the photo. There is no link to a source to confirm that F2 Chemicals Ltd have released the image. |
*And what's going on with [[:File:Fluorine cell room.jpg]] I'm not sure. It is again claimed as PD but while it appears as though the uploader may be a employee of the company there isn't confirmation of this and it doesn't mean they have the permission to release the photo. There is no link to a source to confirm that F2 Chemicals Ltd have released the image. |
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*<s>[[:File:Iodine-heptafluoride-3D-balls.png]] seems fine but it could do with a proper file description, including the date, author and description.</s> |
*<s>[[:File:Iodine-heptafluoride-3D-balls.png]] seems fine but it could do with a proper file description, including the date, author and description.</s> |
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:Done file desc added. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| |
:Done file desc added. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| <b style="color:#3CB371">✉</b>]] 14:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*The animated image is a nice inclusion in the article and is already a FP so that's all good there. |
*The animated image is a nice inclusion in the article and is already a FP so that's all good there. |
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*<s>[[:File:100 0783.JPG]] illustrates a Teflon frying pan fairly enough but I think a better example could be found or if not this image could use some clean-up, like cutting the pan out of the tiled background.</s> |
*<s>[[:File:100 0783.JPG]] illustrates a Teflon frying pan fairly enough but I think a better example could be found or if not this image could use some clean-up, like cutting the pan out of the tiled background.</s> |
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:Done image was replaced with [[:File:Teflon tape wound around threaded pipe.jpg]]. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| |
:Done image was replaced with [[:File:Teflon tape wound around threaded pipe.jpg]]. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| <b style="color:#3CB371">✉</b>]] 14:22, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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<s>*And last but not least [[:File:Sodium-fluoroacetate-2D-skeletal.png]] is fine but a simple text and line image like this should really be converted to vector as an SVG.</s> |
<s>*And last but not least [[:File:Sodium-fluoroacetate-2D-skeletal.png]] is fine but a simple text and line image like this should really be converted to vector as an SVG.</s> |
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:Also done, made SVG and replaced in article. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| |
:Also done, made SVG and replaced in article. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| <b style="color:#3CB371">✉</b>]] 15:19, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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Regards, <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| |
Regards, <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger| <b style="color:#3CB371">✉</b>]] 17:16, 6 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*Fluorine is not known to form compounds with helium (I won't quibble about neon here, although it isn't a compound). → ← this should be slightly reworked. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 05:47, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
*Fluorine is not known to form compounds with helium (I won't quibble about neon here, although it isn't a compound). → ← this should be slightly reworked. [[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 05:47, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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**Done --[[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 14:01, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
**Done --[[User:Lanthanum-138|Lanthanum-138]] ([[User talk:Lanthanum-138|talk]]) 14:01, 7 June 2011 (UTC) |
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Two weeks later, I still need image clearance and a close paraphrasing check. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<span style="color:green;">Georgia</span>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 16:37, 12 June 2011 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' |
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:;Physical properties |
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:Fluorine gas liquefies at −188.12 °C (−306.62 °F),[5] comparable to oxygen and nitrogen, and solidifies at −219.62 °C (−363.32 °F).[5] — Should you just say "Fluorine liquefies ..." since it is obvious from context that this is the gas-liquid transition? The reader will assume anyway that the transition to solid refers to the freezing of the liquid unless you say otherwise. |
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:;Chemical reactivity |
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:* even the generally nonreactive ones, like the noble gas radon — remove the comma after ones, there are too many commas in this sentence |
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:* many metals form fluorides layers that resists further oxidation -> many metals form fluoride layers that resist further oxidation |
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:* which is notable for bonding very close to ionic in solid, unlike any nonmetals binary compound, including other hydrogen halides. -> which is notable for having bonding very close to ionic in the solid form, unlike other binary compounds of nonmetals including the other hydrogen halides |
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:* are thought to be possible in theory — either "are thought to be possible" or "are possible in theory" depending I presume on the sources |
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:;Occurrence |
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:* element in Earth crust -> element in the Earth's crust |
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:* is the least abundant of three -> is the least abundant of the three |
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:;Living organisms |
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:Perhaps mention typical concentrations for fluoridation to contrast with the lethal doses mentioned below? Although that may be like opening Pandora's box. |
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:;Notes |
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:Consistency: please end all notes or none with a full stop. |
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:;Final question |
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:I was left wondering about the contrast between hydrogen fluoride being still partly covalent when dissolved in water yet nearly ionic as a solid. Do sources offer any further comment about this? |
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::Great comments. I think we should cut the stuff about ionic in the solid unless we can find some discussion of the structure that shows a close-packed lattice. Yeah, it's a very polar bond, but it's still clearly molecular.[[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]]) 02:14, 14 June 2011 (UTC) |
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'''TCO review: still needs significant polishing''' My review is on the talk page of this archive. There is a lot of very nice work in here. But I think needs a polishing to be professional. Also in the course of polishing usually we still learn a little more about the content and then that informs our writing. Have a bunch of specific observations, but I can't catch everything. I hope that in some broad issues, we don't just fix the nitpicks, but use it to check the article as a whole for issues: |
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*(positive) by and large we cover the right content in hitting things and in right level of emphasis. We've got the material. |
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*Facts: Found a few small places where a ref was the wrong ref or a minor fact was incorrect. Think the whole thing needs a go over, to check that it all is sourced right. In particular, if there is old content from previous versions, not checked but just relied on. Also, there are still many facts that are unreferrenced. And we can't rely on other wiki articles to support this one, or the project elements database (they have mistakes in there, we need to check everything that is in this article and have an in article ref for it). |
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*Getting there, but still needs prose polishing for cutting wordiness and for catching some English errors (use of article). Would like a prose grandmaster to CE the whole thing (just fix it as you go.) |
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*I know this is laborious, but all the linking needs to be checked one by one, manually. External links should be checked that they go to the right place (I have found a couple that did not and I have not clicked all). Wikilinks should only be done when needed (not "rock", "star", etc.) and should pipe from the first usage, but not after that. Excess blue is a real turn off for reading. |
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*I want to have an external academic like Christe go over the thing as well, but would like us to get it as clean as we can ourselves first.[[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]]) 04:23, 15 June 2011 (UTC) |
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'''Support''' A great work has been done to this article since the nomination, so now I suggest it meets the criteria. [[User:TGilmour|TGilmour]] ([[User talk:TGilmour|talk]]) 02:49, 15 June 2011 (UTC) |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> No further edits should be made to this page.''</div><!--FAbottom--><!--Tagged by FA bot--> |