View source for Talk:Portland metropolitan area

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{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|
{{WikiProject Oregon|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject United States|importance=Mid|WA=yes|WA-importance=Mid}}
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{{old move|date=March 26, 2013|destination=Portland, Oregon metropolitan area|result=page not moved|link=Portland metropolitan area#Requested move}}
{{annual readership}}
{{Backwardscopy
|author = Surhone, L. M., Timpledon, M. T., & Marseken, S. F.
|year = 2010
|title = Portland Streetcar: Streetcar, Portland, Oregon, downtown Portland, MAX light rail, Portland Metropolitan Area, government of Portland, Oregon
|org = Betascript Publishing
|comments = {{OCLC|715375412}}, {{ISBN|9786130441524}}.
|bot=LivingBot
}}

==Size==
How big is this metro area? One part of this article says that it includes parts of some counties (Skamania for one) and another part of this article says it includes all of those counties.
I added up the areas of all the counties and came up with 6719 square miles total- way more than the 400-600 square miles quoted.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.117.176.209|71.117.176.209]] ([[User talk:71.117.176.209|talk]]) 15:49, 4 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:Sorry, this article needs a lot of work. Much of it comes across as original research and someone's personal opinion as to what is the metro area. Officially, per the U.S. Census Bureau, the Portland MSA is: [http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/bulletins/fy2008/b08-01.pdf (page 45)Clackamas County, OR; Columbia County, OR; Multnomah County, OR; Washington County, OR; Yamhill County, OR; Clark County, WA; Skamania County, WA] so if you want to know the area, add up each county's area. As to the 550-600 quoted, it was referring only to the Oregon side and only that land that is urbanized. Hopefully that helps. [[User:Aboutmovies|Aboutmovies]] ([[User talk:Aboutmovies|talk]]) 11:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

==Requested move==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following discussion is an archived discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''

The result of the move request was: '''page not moved.''' Portland, Oregon is the primary topic based on population, and two dabs do not require a dab page. Hatnotes seem sufficient to resolve the issue. [[User:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:navy">Mini</span>''''']][[User_talk:Miniapolis|'''''<span style="color:#8B4513">apolis</span>''''']] 14:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

----


[[:Portland metropolitan area]] → {{no redirect|Portland, Oregon metropolitan area}} – To avoid confusion with the [[Portland, Maine metropolitan area]].  Please see [[Wikipedia talk:Article titles#U.S. metropolitan areas and OMB statistical areas]]. [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 17:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

*'''Support''' per nom -- [[Special:Contributions/65.92.180.137|65.92.180.137]] ([[User talk:65.92.180.137|talk]]) 04:09, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - per [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]]. Oregon/WA one has a pop of 2,226,009, Maine's is 514,098, or not even 1/4 of the size. [[User:Aboutmovies|Aboutmovies]] ([[User talk:Aboutmovies|talk]]) 06:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Yes, Portland OR would be primary topic compared only to Portland ME, but there are [[Portland|many other claimants to the name]]. --[[User:BDD|BDD]] ([[User talk:BDD|talk]]) 18:09, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
:*While there are many claimants to the name ''Portland'', we are not talking about ''Portland'' here but instead ''Portland metropolitan area'', and besides the two metro areas mentioned above, how many are there? And more importantly, are any even notable, let alone notable enough to come within the debate as to primary? [[User:Aboutmovies|Aboutmovies]] ([[User talk:Aboutmovies|talk]]) 05:29, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nom and to make naming of these more consistent.  One issue with many names is that all too often the names used are not intuitive or informative for a good number of readers.  The proposed change is a move in a good direction.  This will not help readers who don't know what Oregon or Maine are, but it will help many others. [[User:Vegaswikian|Vegaswikian]] ([[User talk:Vegaswikian|talk]]) 22:09, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. So far as I can tell this is a [[WP:TWODABS]] situation between this article and [[Portland, Maine metropolitan area]]. I don't know that the Oregon article is necessarily primary, but I'm not seeing convincing evidence that it's not.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 22:13, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
::I could live with the current title redirecting to [[Portland, Oregon metropolitan area]] per [[WP:TWODABS]], but I still think the title of this article should mirror [[Portland, Oregon]]. --[[User:BDD|BDD]] ([[User talk:BDD|talk]]) 22:18, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Per [[WP:PRECISION]], I'd object to "Portland, Oregon..." if plain "Portland..." was just going to redirect there. It's just [[Louisville metropolitan area]], [[Nashville metropolitan area]], [[Albuquerque metropolitan area]], etc.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 01:01, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
::::There is only one [[Nashville metropolitan area]], one [[Louisville metropolitan area]], and one [[Albuquerque metropolitan area]].  There are <u>two</u> Portland metropolitan areas.  Please see the [[List of metropolitan areas of the United States]].
::::The [[Portland metropolitan area]] page should be a disambiguation page.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 14:52, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::Again, I'd have to see some evidence that this article isn't the ''primary'' "Portland metropolitan area" to support creating a [[WP:TWODABS|two-entry dab page]]. If more people are looking for the Oregon metro, it should stay put; readers looking for Maine can already get there in as few clicks as they could with a dab page.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 19:05, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::To my recollection, of all major cities of the United States, Portland, Oregon and and Portland, Maine are the two most commonly confused.  Perhaps Portland, Maine is no longer of any import, but I suspect New Englanders would disagree.  [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 19:51, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::I mean, I'd need to see evidence (page view stats, search engine results, source comparisons, etc) that the Oregon metro isn't more prominent to support a move. The page view stats are confused due to recent moves, but they seem to suggest the Oregon article is more viewed; it's certainly the much bigger of the two and I suspect more nationally known. Folks looking for the Maine article can get there in as few clicks through a hatnote as they can through a dab page; if the Oregon article is actually primary, all a dab page would do is add another step for more readers without reducing steps for anyone.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 20:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
{{unindent}}Buaidh, since you've posted notes about this discussion to various Maine talk pages[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Maine&diff=549743267&oldid=541854703][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portland,_Maine_metropolitan_area&diff=prev&oldid=549735279][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portland,_Maine&diff=prev&oldid=549743516] may I ask that you extend the same courtesy to Oregon editors, considering that this is actually an Oregon article?--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 15:05, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
:This is an Oregon article that may create confusion for users seeking the other famous Portland.  I have no skin in this game.  I don't live within a thousand kilometers of either city.  I just don't feel civic boosterism should be allowed to confuse users.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 16:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
::If you have no skin in the game I don't know why you wouldn't bring this up with all affected users, especially those who may have something to say about the article you're trying to move.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 16:58, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Never mind, I went ahead and did it.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 17:07, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
'''Please note''': Of the 917 [[Core Based Statistical Area]]s of the United States, 168 have a principal city with the same name as the principal city of another Core Based Statistical Area area.  Please see the [[List of metropolitan areas of the United States]].  [[Portland]] is a disambiguation page.  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 19:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per nominator. [[User:331dot|331dot]] ([[User talk:331dot|talk]]) 23:00, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - Portland, Oregon, is over four times the size of Portland, Maine. So I think this article title and [[Portland, Maine metropolitan area]] are fine as-is. [[Special:Contributions/76.189.111.2|76.189.111.2]] ([[User talk:76.189.111.2|talk]]) 01:59, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Makes sense to me, for the sake of consistency and because there are many places named Portland. --[[User:Another Believer|<span style="color:navy;">Another Believer</span>]] <sub>([[User talk:Another Believer|<span style="color:#cc6600;">Talk</span>]])</sub> 17:04, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

'''Clarification:'''  The preferred article title for metropolitan areas is the article title of the principal city with the lower-case words "&nbsp;metropolitan&nbsp;area" appended.  Please see the [[List of metropolitan areas of the United States]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 18:16, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
:To copy and paste myself from elsewhere, it's not really "preferred" and it's certainly not required. In addition to the listed metros there are many more that follow this article's current format, such as [[Albuquerque metropolitan area]], [[Jacksonville metropolitan area]], [[Nashville metropolitan area]], or [[Louisville metropolitan area]], not to metion things like [[Delaware Valley]] and [[Tampa Bay Area]].--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 18:21, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
::I don't wish to get in a squabble between two fine cities.  Portland, Oregon has [[Portlandia (statue)|Portlandia]] and [[Portlandia (TV series)|Portlandia]], and Portland, Maine has the [[Portland Head Light]] and the [[History of Portland, Maine#Second World War|Portland submarine fence]].  Yours aye, [[User:Buaidh|<span style="color:white; background-color:#552211;">&nbsp;Buaidh&nbsp;</span>]] 21:32, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': the proposed title misses the closing comma after the state – like "Portland, Oregon, metropolitan area" – per [[WP:Basic copyediting]], section Punctuation. [[User:HandsomeFella|HandsomeFella]] ([[User talk:HandsomeFella|talk]]) 22:36, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
**Does not apply. If you are writing a sentence, Portland, Oregon, one of the largest metropolitan areas, a comma is needed. Portland, Oregon metropolitan area does not. [[User:Apteva|Apteva]] ([[User talk:Apteva|talk]]) 03:14, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
**That is against the naming convention. '''[[User:TBrandley#top|<span style="color:darkorange">TB</span>]][[User talk:TBrandley#top|<span style="color:red">randley</span>]]''' 03:20, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support''' There are numerous communities and terms named Portland, aside from [[Portland, Maine]]. The population here is not relevant, but rather which is the common name regardless of size. '''[[User:TBrandley#top|<span style="color:darkorange">TB</span>]][[User talk:TBrandley#top|<span style="color:red">randley</span>]]''' 03:20, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[WP:RM|requested move]].  <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[WP:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->

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== Erroneous redirect of Portland-Vancouver-Salem CSA to Portland Metropolitan Area ==

This article focuses on the Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area).  

The Portland-Vancouver-Salem, OR-WA CSA (Combined Statistical Area) is a different entity.  It includes the Salem, OR MSA; the Albany, OR MSA; the Corvallis, OR MSA; and the Longview, WA MSA in addition to Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro.  Go here and scroll down to number 18 to see [[Combined_statistical_area]].  

But the link to P-V-S CSA redirects here, which clearly is an error and obstructs information about the actual CSA.  

I don't know how to undo a redirect, or if there was a correct separate article on the Portland-Vancouver-Salem, OR-WA CSA that would be restored if I undid that redirect, or if I should create a stub for that, or what. 

It also looks like this is not a much watched page and as if this comment is likely to go into the ether, which is kind of discouraging.  

--[[User:Cclowe|Chris Lowe]] ([[User talk:Cclowe|talk]]) 20:42, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

== Rename to Portland metropolitan area, Oregon ==

There are two Portland metropolitan areas, one in Oregon and the other in Maine. Naming the article about the one in Oregon Portland metropolitan area would mostly generate confusion from the Oregon one and the Maine one. 

Here’s an example of possible confusion: If a user from Portland Maine looked at the title of this article, that user would totally get confused with the Portland metro area from Maine and the Portland metro area from Oregon. 

That’s why the article should be renamed to Portland metropolitan area, Oregon, to avoid the possible confusion  I explained between the Portland metropolitan area in Maine with the MSA in Oregon. The disambiguation page should also be moved from Portland metropolitan area (disambiguation) to Portland metropolitan area. [[User:MetricSupporter89|Metric Supporter 89]] ([[User talk:MetricSupporter89|talk]]) 03:10, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

:'''Oppose''':  The confusion is easily avoided by noticing the hatnote (at the top of the article):
:::{{about|the metropolitan area in Oregon and Washington|the metropolitan area in Maine|Portland metropolitan area, Maine}}
:And there are more than two ''Portland''s in the U.S.  Instead, there are at least twenty though most of those do not have notable ''metropolitan'' areas.
:Furthermore, Portland, Maine, is a relatively small city and small metro area:  city population rank is 25 (in Oregon), and  greater than 314 (in Maine).  Metro area rank:  25 (Oregon), 106 (Maine).  See [[List of United States cities by population]] and [[List of metropolitan statistical areas]].
:Also, note that this issue was raised seven years ago and failed to garner sufficient support.  Looking at the reasoning given ([[#Requested move|above]]), I don't see that anything has changed.  —[[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] ([[user talk:EncMstr|talk]]) 05:55, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

How does the hatnote avoid it? [[User:MetricSupporter89|Metric Supporter 89]] ([[User talk:MetricSupporter89|talk]]) 19:24, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

I know that the City of Portland is in Oregon. However, the metro area includes part of southwest WA. The title of this wiki indicates to me an article on just the Oregon side of the metro area (Portland, Gresham, Beaverton, etc., but NOT Vancouver, Longview, etc). Maybe it should be renamed to "Portland metropolitan area, Oregon/Washington"? [[User:YellowAries2010|YellowAries2010]] ([[User talk:YellowAries2010|talk]]) 01:53, 18 October 2022 (UTC)