Talk:Vizsla

Pronunciation

I think the pronunciation given is wrong, isn't it? I thought a zs in Magyar was prounced more like an S, so Vees-la? ---- tharsaile 17:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

sz is 's', zs is 'zh'. rone 04:46, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The approximation for 'zs' as in 'vision' is quite close. The 'a' should be pronounced like the 'o' in 'hot'.

Strictly speaking, the 'i' should be pronounced very short, also as in 'vision' and the 'a' is a neutral vowel sound like the schwa (ə) in English. Thus, 'vizs ' as in 'vision', 'la ' as in 'lug.'

It should be 'la' as in 'Log' - same as aforementioned 'o' in 'hot' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.75.172.53 (talk) 19:21, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing these suggestions are meant to be understood in a North American context. For example, the 'o' in 'hot' is quite a different sound in American/Canadian English than it is in, say, British English. -- Hux (talk) 21:22, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

We have a Vizsla, and we always pronounced it Vish (Like saying shh) and la (like saying lamb) So it'd be like vish-la ExpertOnFun (talk) 20:46, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

AltaVizsla

The name is apt in another way, since "vizsla" is also translated as "to search" or "to seek". --Wesley R. Elsberry 02:25, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

The first paragraph of the temperate section definitely does not have a neutral point of view. Mrmoocow 03:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it's about right, from an AKC-type point of view. You want to describe the ideal temperament, which this does. I think Mrmoocow is nit-picking.

I have owned a Vizsla for nearly 7 years and thoroughly agree with the first paragraph, it sums up the temperament of my dog very well. Alexdesalis Alexdesalis 09:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I mostly agree with the first paragraph. I could see how someone might read it as overly gushing, but it really does describe the breed. I have a 4 yr old female who is very much part of our family and is also a great hunter. My possible problems with the paragraph would be: (1) loyalty -- this breed is friendly with everyone. Not disloyal, but very happy to meet new people. In a new-person scenario, I'd expect a "loyal" dog to fall-in with his owner. All of the Vizlas I know scamper up to friendly lookin strangers and beg to be pet. (2) The Vizsla is a "versatile" breed; this ought to be noted. However, while they're excellent pointers, retrieving game takes training. It's definitely instinctive, but my dog, for example, marks a fallen bird, finds it, picks it up to finish the kill if need be, but isn't fond of taking time to run the bird back to me before continuing the hunt. -PC 3 Feb 2007

I've owned a female vizsla for 14 years. I agree with the description in general. Friendly to everyone, but loyal. (Though it is absolutely unsuitable as a guard dog.) It guards sick children, not allowing them to be approached only by the most trusted persons. - Valdez, from Hungary.

Actually if you all want to pay attention to the rules, the first paragraph is highly inaccurate. And the AKC description is an IDEAL description and must be stated as such, as in "The ideal Vizsla temperment is...." This entry in general is OBVIOUSLY written by an owner of a Vizsla and therefore biased in nature. All entries are subject to some bias as a person has to take an interest in the subject or it would not be an entry in a Wiki style "encyclopedia" and direct cut-n-pastes are frowned upon. To "Valdez, from Hungary...." Is that supposed to make you an authority on the breed? Highly irregular to name your country in an attempt to sway an article's description in one direction or another. To "-PC" I found your description to be opposite of my Vizsla's, mine would retrieve without training, I took her out to get her used to the gun, she accidentally flushed a pheasant, I shot the pheasant and she took off jumped into a small pond, which scared me as she had not been in anything but a tub as far as water, and she mouthed the pheasant and brought it back to me. I was a bit stunned, my hunting companion informed me that was pretty common with this breed. Getting her to point, a definition of frustration to be sure! She still 8 years later would prefer to never point but rather flush at will. AND FINALLY, every dog has their own characteristics and personalities just because your dog is friendly does not mean the breed in general is friendly, and visa-versa, just because you run into an ugly tempered dog it may not be indicative to the breed. 75.17.209.70 (talk) 14:36, 7 September 2009 (UTC)Jeff

punctuation correction in appearance and wirehair history section

Hi, can whoever created/updated the section on appearance, please remove all those dots? Also, this is the page for the vizsla, not just the wireharied version, can the description on the shorthaired breed be returned?

In the Wirehair history section, there is also some missing punctuation.

Thanks!

Allergies

At the request (via OTRS) of a breeder, I've removed the reference to the ambiguous term hypoallergenic from the article since it may mislead people with severe allergies into thinking the breed does not cause them. — Coren ^(talk) 05:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

There is NO DATA to support the statement that short-haired dogs cause less allergic symptoms. Allergies are dander, not hair mediated. The statement should be removed completely. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.1.242.179 (talk) 17:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Migrated Wire-haired Vizsla to a new article

Since the Wire-haired Vizsla is universally recognized as a different breed than the Vizsla, I have created an article for that separate breed and moved the appropriate information and images to that article. Briantresp (talk) 18:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Vizslas vs. Vizslak

Theres an err... if not edit war than edit altercation surrounding the use of the term "Vizslak." It seems pretty clear that Vislak is not an English word. It is not found in major dictionaries, whereas Vizslas can be found in all. The word is used on English websites, but perhaps it is a Hungarian word that is being partially integrated into English; but that integration is nowhere near complete. I can't say that I really care, but it doesn't appear that Vizslak should be included in the intro as the English plural, with or without the "rare" caveat.

Actually, its sorta funny that this is an issue. If you search for "define:Vizslak" you get nothing; if you put "Vizslak" into OED or dictionary.com, you get "Vizsla" as the closest hit (with Vizslas as plural). If you google "Vizslak," only the first uses "Vizslak" without qualification; #2 and #4 use "Vizslas" and #3 uses "Vizslak (plural for Vizsla apparently)" Even the AKC uses Vizslas. Seriously, this is an issue?

--Thesoxlost (talk) 16:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

It does seem to be standardized as Vizslas, but I find lots of English language sites that use Vizslak. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:29, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

'Vizslak' is just plain wrong in the context that most snobby breeders in the UK and US use on their websites, Hungarians laugh at the crude use of this word, as the actual word is "vizslák" and even using the correct spelling (with the accents) isn't correct in this context.

To further qualify and explain this the Hungarian word 'vizslák' is only used as plural in a specific circumstance, 'vizslák' would be used when referring to several dogs, without a quantity. For example "breeders of fine Hungarian Vizslák" would be OK, but "I have 7 Vizslák" would not be OK also "I have many Vizslák" would be incorrect too (of course there are other nuances with Hungarian to English translation, but this should illustrate what I mean). OED says it is "Vizslas" if for some reason people need to misuse this Hungarian word on their own websites, then at least spell it correctly with the Hungarian letters.

(talk) 20:08, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

The posted pejorative references to "snobby breeders" being laughed at for their "crude use" of the word Vizslak is not especially erudite or neutral - do you know any of these breeders, what qualifies them as snobby rather than simply in error? - and the same goes for referring to use of the word as "spammy". Furthermore since this Wiki entry is in English, rather than Hungarian, the correct specifics of Hungarian pluralisations aren't necessarily what's important, ditto the use of the "á", since English doesn't employ accents. What is more relevant to an English language encyclopaedia is actual English language usage by those who are actively involved and influential in the breed(s).

The equally incorrect "Komondorok" seems now to be in such wide English language usage as to have established a precedent and this plural form is certainly found in English language dictionaries too. Its continued use is presumably unstoppable and the word has seemingly become legitimately Anglicised. "Vizslak" may or may not go the same way, but the word is in (limited but regular) use, and the Wiki article can legitimately reflect that usage.

The following reproduces what I've already posted on the Komondor discussion:

Here in the UK a number of leading kennels, certainly HWV kennels at any event, use the plural form Vizslak, often (though not always) to the exclusion of other plural forms. It is, clearly, the less frequently used plural form, but it is not rare per se and is also seemingly in usage across the English speaking world.

Qorilla contends that it is not an accurate or relevant plural form, which is clearly correct from a Hungarian perspective, so the question then is should the Wiki article reflect actual English usage (even if technically incorrect) or attempt to correct this apparently mistaken English language convention? In either event the term certainly warrants inclusion in the relevant articles but perhaps with an appropriate caveat or explanation.

As for Squash Racket's mention of Hunglish, and Qorilla's reference to a "ridiculous... pathetic mixture of languages" the conventional English names for the two Vizsla breeds are already a mixture of the two languanges. After all the Hungarian names are: Magyar Vizsla and Drotzörü Magyar Vizsla, and a full Anglicisation would see the breeds referred to as the Hungarian Pointer & Hungarian Wirehaired Pointer respectively - in the same way that the Deutscher Kurzhaariger Vorstehhund, Deutscher Drahthaariger Vorstehhund and Deutscher Langhaariger Vorstehhund are Anglicised as Shorthaired, Wirehaired and Longhaired German Pointers rather than as breeds of German Vorstehhund. This does not mean that either Vizsla or Vorstehhund literally translate into English as pointer (Vorstehhund is also used for all HPR breeds as well as for Setters) but rather that all of the breeds mentioned are forms of Pointer.

Finally it's worth considering that all languages are continually evolving and borrowing from one another and that basterdized and multi-lingual words regularly enter and are added to vocabularies, be they English or, indeed Hungarian. Also, bearing in mind that there are more HWV's in the UK (where the breed is undergoing something of a boom in popularity) than in any other single country, including their native Hungary, if some of the most influential English HWV kennels as well as the committee members of the Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla Association maintain their usage of the word Vizslak, as they presumably will do, then a linguistic convention will become established.

Joviankid (talk) 19:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

My "snobby" comment the other day was a little tongue-in-cheek to be honest and wasn't really meant to be pejorative, I can speak on this subject as I'm British, and also involved with many Vizsla kennels in the UK (but I live in Hungary) and the 'Vizslak' thing is a particular bugbear of mine. You make very good points about the Anglicisation of the "Vizsla" word. Here in Hungary 'Vizsla' is a generic term for HPR breeds, Nemet Vizsla (German Vizsla), Olasz Vizsla (Bracco Italiano), Angol Vizsla (Englsh pointer) etc.etc. I suggest we describe it like it is (currently) in the Komondor page, something like "Hungarian plural: Vizslák".

Regarding the Hungarian Wirehaired Association, Google has indexed their site and shows many uses of the word "vizslas" but not a single instance of the word "vizslak", maybe they are waiting for the word to be officially recognised by an official body before writing it or placing it on their website? I've heard members of the HWVA say it in conversation, over dinner for example, that was often met with a growl under my breath ;)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awww.hwva.org.uk+vizslas

vs

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Awww.hwva.org.uk+vizslák%7Cvizslak

Also, that is an interesting statistic about the population of HWV being greater in the UK than in Hungary. I didn't know that, do you have any data or sources? I'd like to use that statistic elsewhere.

BTW I own all _three_ types of Hungarian Vizsla, Shorthaired, Longhaired and Wirehaired. Of course the 'longhaired' Vizsla I have is another can-of-worms that I don't want to open here ;)

Vauvau (talk) 07:35, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for identifying yourself on the above post, it's appreciated! Regarding the numbers of HWV's in the UK Vs. Hungary, the KC registration figures at:

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/download/3075/Quarterly-breed-stats-gundogs.pdf

show that there were 252 HWV's registered in 2007 and 362 registered in 2008 with that number likely to rise again in 2009.

In their "History of the Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla" the Zöldmáli kennel - http://www.zoldmali.hu/ - who are, as far as I'm aware, the only breeders anywhere to have published a book about the breed, and who attempted to do a census of the numbers of HWV's in Hungary state:

"While the average number of SHVs born yearly in Hungary is around 1000 (in 2000 and 2001) the average number of HWVs is 30 litters, i.e. 140-150 dogs."

Regarding the HWVA, there are actually very few pluralisations (the Google search retrieves 6) used anywhere on the web-site, but I was thinking more in terms of the use on their own sites by movers and shakers in the Association, which is where I personally first came upon the English use of the term Vizslak.

Just to further muddy the waters this short article:

http://www.vizsladogs.com/ARTICLES/vizsla.htm

Suggests that Vizslak isn't truly Hungarian anyway, and also that, when referring to a specific number:

"Magyar use the singular form such as "hat vizsla""

which would surely mean that the true plural of Vizsla is neither Vizslak or Vizslas, but simply Vizsla!

Joviankid (talk) 10:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the stats, I have Zsófi's book here (I also have one of her pups here nibbling my toes), I'll have a look at that later.

Regarding the "hat vizsla" example, the Hungarian language is complicated in this respect, because the language is difficult and plurals can't really be compared directly to English, "hat vizsla" is true and means "six vizslas" but Hungarian has "Vizslák" when referring to several (without quantity). My wife (who is Hungarian) would say "Vizsláink vannak" for "We have Vizslas" with the 'i' and the 'n' making it collectively possessive while speaking for the two of us. There are lots of variants of this, sometimes depending on the situation etc, VERY complex for a Brit like myself! :-)

Vauvau (talk) 15:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Longhaired Vizsla

The longhaired Vizsla question is an interesting one. At:

http://vizsla.zoomin.se/index/69486.html

Katavizs states that it is seemingly a throwback to the Irish Setter genes that were introduced into the Vizsla by a kennel in the 1970's, but Irish Setter was also reputedly used in the creation of the HWV. Did yours originate from a smooth or wire stock?

Joviankid (talk) 10:44, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Now, we come onto the longhaired. There are lots of stories here about Irish Setters being used to redden the coats of shorthairs in Hungary, some say in the 70s some say in the 80s, lots of it is hearsay and nobody really knows, this rumour is thrown around often, I've heard it from one place about one kennel and another place about a totally different kennel. Nobody really knows as they would of course not admit to this introduction of non Vizslak ;) into the bloodline. The longhaireds I have here are from an impeccable bloodline, both parents are short-haired. In the litter there were 7 puppies, all the boys were shorthaired and the 3 girls were long-haired. The litter was DNA tested by a Hungarian geneticist who was interested in this subject. Some suggest the genetic fault being from a throwback from the 'yellow-dog' others suggest it is from the mish-mash of dogs that were supposedly introduced into the breed in the 1700-1800s, this was supposedly "Blood drop crossing" with Irish setters, labs and English pointers. Irish pointers for the speed, Labs for the retrieving and English pointers for the improved nose. Supposedly the white flash on the chest or the paws comes from the English pointer, also the facial features (stop etc.) are also coming from the English Pointer, again this is all highly controversial with no real evidence one way or the other. We are writing a paper/article on our findings relating to the longhairs.

Vauvau (talk) 15:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

In this article above the author - as always in cases when people get longhaired Vizslas - defends his dogs claiming that both parents are from "impeccable bloodline" and shorthaired. The author states that there are no evidence for Irish Setter mixing into the Vizslas only rumours, "nobody knows". That's wrong. There is evidence, there are evidences for certain breeders mixing Irish Setter to Vizsla. As long as people accept longhaires and keep on breeding with those bloodlines they will keep contaminating the true, purebred shorthaired Hungarian Vizslas, contributing to errase the breed. It would have been interesting to know what the conclusion of that Hungarian geneticist was after the DNA test.

Katavizs (talk) 16:41, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Katavizs, your comments illustrate the problem here, and I can tell from your nickname that you are probably Hungarian. Hungarians have a dim view and consider this part of the heritage of the breed to be "contaminating the true, purebred shorthaired Hungarian Vizslas". We didn't perpetuate or contaminate anything with these dogs, they were born to a really fantastic set of famous shorthaired parents, ones that you know doubt would know, ones that are champions in fact. They had not mated before and neither of them had produced longhairs previously. We all know that certain Hungarian breeders drown these genetic oddities that are called "longhairs" in buckets of water, so their existence is denied and brushed under the carpet, so finding examples of them is rare. Hungarians assume that having these dogs associated to a kennel is detrimental and could tarnish the name of that kennel. The dogs are pets, they won't be bred and as you know MEOE doesn't recognise these dogs here (even though they have DNA profiling to prove them as the daughters of the shorthaired dogs), my pedigree says "shorthaired vizsla". You talk about "proof" of the kennels introducing Irish Setters into the breed, yes this is a common story, but there is no documented proof of this, as I said before it is all HEARSAY. IF this did happen then the breeders would not admit to it as it would nullify their MEOE membership and probably ban them from every FCI event in the world. Yes, it is probable, and certainly Irish Setters or dogs that resembled them were probably used in the early creation of the breed WAY before the 1970s, but again, there isn't any ACTUAL proof of this because it would have happened before official records began. To put this into perspective the Weimaraner has a long-haired variety that looks almost identical to my girl (I mean in respect to the difference with long and short haired Vizslas) with the long haired fanning on the tail. My dog has stood next to a longhaired Weimaraner at a dog-show and the similarities are striking. The long haired gene in the Weimaraner is recessive and the long-hairs are recognised by most kennel clubs, the suggestion that the Weimaraner was mixed with an Irish setter isn't there, it is genetics, simple as that. You are interested what the Hungarian geneticist said? Well he was so interested by the initial tests that he wanted to study this litter and attempt to breed out the long-hair, into a replicable set of parents that could produce long-hairs again and again. Also, do you know that the private haplotypes were tested in my dog? Do you think they found private haplotypes of the Irish Setter? Do you think they found markers that identified Irish Setter? You'll have to await the contents of my paper to hear more.

Vauvau (talk) 19:06, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Your enormous, genuine knowledge about Hungarian people, Hungarian breeders and Hungarian Vizsla impresses me. To compare Vizsla with Weimaraner was also real good. I understand you do know what you are talking about. You must have hugh experience. However it might help even you if you sometimes read the official standard for the shorthaired Hungarian Vizsla. There is one, you know. Standard, I mean. Good luck and have a nice evening!

Katavizs (talk) 21:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm assuming this is sarcasm, which doesn't really help in this discussion. I wasn't comparing the Vizsla and the Weimaraner directly, in this discussion they have no relationship whatsoever, I was simply pointing out that the characteristics of the fanning of the tail was similar and long-haired Weimaraners are accepted, no mention of Irish Setter introduction there. Yes, of course there is a standard, I'm not trying to change the world, change the standard or even show or breed my long haired dog, she is a great pet and companion, that is good enough for me. But the fact of life is that these dogs exist, just like a variant of the Weimaraner with long hair exists. Genetics and nature is a wonderful thing, strange things happen, traits, faults and throwbacks exhibit themselves for no reason whatsoever, nothing is perfect.

Vauvau (talk) 22:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I was not aware of this being a discussion. I thought you were merely echoing the false information some very few breeders, who continuously get longhaired puppies, give to people to justify their faulty dogs and furthermore you were smearing all the Hungarian people and breeders. Like that thing with the bucket with water the “Hungarian breeders” have beside the mother who is giving birth to her Vizsla babies. You must be well aware of the fact, that one cannot see if a puppy will be longhaired until the puppy reaches the age of at least 2 weeks, so your statement that “Hungarian breeders” have buckets to drown the newborn longhaired puppies is entirely faulty. Besides it is quite outrageous to state such a thing about a whole nation’s breeders. You were very keen on “evidence” no hearsay, have you been sitting beside these breeders in Hungary, watching them to drown those innocent, sweet newborn babies or what evidence do you get for that malicious statement? Playing the smart one, “guessing” after my nickname, you wrote, that I was Hungarian, while you have been on my webpage (visitors’ IP number, you know….), reading my article about the longhaired Vizslas where I even wrote that I am a 53 years old Hungarian woman, what was that for a silly game? Saying that my comments represent the problem the Hungarian people’s dim view causes, while the problem is that there are longhaired dogs in a shorthaired breed. Would you have the same liberal and understanding point of view if someone told you he got some adorable longhaired Great Dane puppies? Or Boxer? Or Dalmatian? Or why not English Bulldoggs? Would you call them Great Danes, Boxers, Dalmatians or Bulldoggs? No. I would not be surprised knowing that the parents of your long haired puppies were champions. Because I already know that some of these popular “big winners” are carriers of longhaired genes, have progenies and siblings, who have long hair, but sadly the owners of those dogs keep on using them in breeding, creating fancy stories of how the longhaired Vizslas have always existed. So even though if you won’t breed your longhaired bitch, which is very sensible and quite honourable, there are others who do it anyway. And of course these longhair carrier dogs are winners, otherwise no one would breed with them. Many people fancy titles instead of the dog itself and his/her origins, lines. As for the evidence of mixing Irish Setter into the Vizsla I personally know people who were part of it, people who now disagree with what they had done or helped to do. I’ll not expose them here or anywhere else, it is up to them to step forward. At least we agree on one thing: Weimaraner have an entirely different origin and can not be compared to Vizslas, though even if you backed off, that was just exactly what you did. Vorsteh (German Pointers) and Weimaraner has always had longhairs, all three coat variations has always been accepted, recognized, while Hungarian Vizslas had only one coat, the short hair. For centuries and centuries. Historical facts. There has never ever been anything else but short haired Hungarian Vizslas until the 1980-ies, but if anybody has any historical written evidence of longhaired Hungarian Vizslas before that time, let them show it. It would be a real heavy trick, because there is none and never has been. Even the wirehaired Hungarian Vizsla is quite a new breed compared to the original Hungarian Vizsla, the shorthaired gundog of the Hungarians. In the 1920-ies there were some hunters who wanted to make a wirehaired variation of the Vizsla, and with permission from authorities they developed a wirehaired Hungarian Vizsla by mixing the wirehaired German Pointer to the Hungarian Vizsla. Openly and with permission. After many years of work the breed was accepted. Still there were only two coat variations for the Hungarian Vizsla, the short and the wire. My webpage is referred to in this Vizsla-talk (that’s how I found out about it at all), but here it is once more, just in case: http://vizsla.zoomin.se, I am not hiding behind the shadows of the Internet. Anybody can find me and contact me. Longhaired dogs after two Hungaria Vizsla parents are surely adorable pets and even very excellent gundogs, I wish all of them good life and love because every animal deserves it and their life is as much worth as any champion pedigree dog’s, but they are not the “third coat variation of the Hungarian Vizsla”, they are not traits, faults or throwbacks of nature but the work of humans in our time.

Katavizs (talk) 23:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Katavizs, yes it is a discussion, this is quite clearly indicated in the tab next to the "article" tab labelled "discussion" that you needed to press this in order to get here, oh and thanks for leaving the sarcasm behind, we'll probably get further without it. Regarding the 'bucket of water' I never mentioned that it was next to the Vizsla giving birth and I also said "certain Hungarian breeders" so I didn't tarnish all Hungarian breeders with this, even this is HEARSAY as it is a story I've been told about breeders disposing of the longhairs because of the stigma it will bring, I don't have evidence of anyone doing this, I don't have a signed statement from any breeders who have done this in the past, so it is just conjecture (exactly in the same way that you don't have such REAL proof of the introduction of Irish setters into the breed).

To be honest I hadn't read that you were Hungarian on your Swedish site, I didn't even know until later that the link that was quoted by Joviankid was your work. This wasn't any 'game' I noticed the name 'Kata' which is a common name here in Hungary, so I made an assumption. Kata, again, the 'Irish Setter' story is one of many that I hear every week, do you really think that the Magyar Vizsla just "arrived", all dogs are ultimately mongrels, they are bred and back-backbred to arrive at what we have today. As I said it is probable that Irish Setters were in the mix somewhere along the line, my girl certainly shares looks with the Irish Setter, she is sometimes mistaken for one, but the 1970s "darkening" story is one that can't be proven. The other long-hair next to me here doesn't look anything like an Irish Setter, but she is far more golden. I hear that "we have proof" and "we know which kennel". I hear from one kennel that it was X kennel and from a competitor of that kennel it was Y kennel. The stories conflict always, there is a lot of blaming and finger pointing. I'm looking now at your webpage and I've heard it said about a kennel of one of your dogs,that you quote on there as being the one that cross-bred the Irish Setter, this is one of 4 or 5 kennels that "were the ONLY kennel that did it". So it is all bullsh*t until someone exposes it with proof, or someone comes forward and admits this (which as I said before, will never happen). I have 3 or 4 people here in Budapest who "have proof" but they never ever come forward with it, it is an amplified and exaggerated story that gets worse with every shot of Pálinka.

Have you read Füzesiné Szegvári Zsuzsa's "A Magyar Vizsla"? There is an interesting section in there about this whole subject, I only have the book in Hungarian. I'll email her and ask her if I can translate it and put it somewhere for non-Hungarian speakers to read.

Finally I know all about the Wirehaired Vizsla, being an owner of one from one of the best kennels and also as being a member of MEOE Drótszőrű Magyar Vizsla Szakosztály. While we are on the subject of the Wirehaired, how would you explain the almost identical "long-hairs" with the same reddish coloring from Wirehaired parents? This happens occasionally too, this would mean a closely monitored and segregated bloodline from the 1920s has exhibited the same genetic throwbacks that are present in the shorthaired breed, no 1970s Irish Setter story there.

And I'll repeat again, these are traits, faults and throwbacks, if they are introduced by Humans or exhibit themselves naturally by genetic mutation, they are still there and won't be going anywhere as however it has happened these genes are so heavily proliferated that going backwards is impossible.

Vauvau (talk) 13:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

i sorry i new here but they have nice foto at this page of the Hosszúszörü Vizsla at http://longhairedvizsla.com maybe you can email them and use it

Docking

It says that a docked tail is the breed standard, but this is no longer the case in the U.K., or in any other civilised country. Salopian (talk) 23:05, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Does this section really need to include two paragraphs of argumentation against docking, though? It seems to me that this information belongs in the article on docking, not here, and the material after "(UK breed standard, for example)" and before "The docked tail of the Vizsla" should be cut. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.235.195.164 (talk) 23:03, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Fixed popular culture section

Why was Che from the Goode Family removed? I think he is a Vizsla my cousins owned several of them and they very much resembled him.173.18.28.177 (talk) 01:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.18.28.177 (talk) 03:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

• I moved this down here because I ended up removing it with another mention in the PC section. There is nothing out there that proves that this specific cartoon dog is actually a vizsla. A cartoon dog appearing to look like one breed doesn't really mean much, as animals can look like several breeds and end up being something completely different. Unless we have a more official source, stuff like that shouldn't be added. I also removed the Clifford mention since I was unable to find anything to back this up other than a very brief mention in a non-official blog.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 14:29, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Picture

We don't like when authors put their own images in the lead. This is a very typical problem in dog articles. The lead picture should always have a standing dog, NOT a dog PORTRAIT. On top of everything this picture has a much to big thumb size and a black frame, and it is unbalanced, the dog is placed way to much to the right. OK, we keept this, but don't put that back into the lead, please.Hafspajen (talk) 08:19, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Reverting info

Discuss, not revert. Information sourced in several places. Hafspajen (talk) 20:27, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Media and Culture Theory - MDC 254

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2023 and 15 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jdog1027 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Mosbug1 (talk) 02:23, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

just curious why most of the notable vizsla owners were just removed

People like NBA player Kevin Love and Ultra Marathoner Mike Wardian, Dana Perino, and bunch of other notable people were removed, leaving just two that aren't even as notable as the others - can someone explain the reason? Greg (talk) (contribs) 02:34, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

i guess it was the pop culture category, not notable people. weird removal! Greg (talk) (contribs) 02:36, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

i suppose whoever removed them thought those names had nothing to do with pop culture, but perhaps there should be a category added, then, of "notable vizsla owners' ? Greg (talk) (contribs) 02:38, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

if whoever removed that whole section can let me know if creating a "notable vizsla owners" section is in their eyes warranted - then i'd have to go back and find out who was there Greg (talk) (contribs) 02:47, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

No, it seems like pointless trivia, imagine if we had this for one of the most popular breeds like Poodles or Golden Retrievers, it'd take up the whole article.

Considering no source seems to cover the broad topic of notable people who own Vizslas and instead it is just individual sources (which aren't focused on the dogs) it doesn't seem like a notable nor encyclopaedic subject. Traumnovelle (talk) 03:53, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

the reason it's not pointless is that vizslas are considered a rare breed that for some reason a lot of athletes and notable people own - they have a lot of personality and come from royalty thousands of years ago - kings used to have them just so they'd feel more kingly. they are not in the class of golden retrievers or poodles, which everyone owns. you don't see me going to any other dog page on earth but a vizsla page to add the notable people. so i disagree with your point. i'm hoping someone else can chime in, and if i find i'm alone in this then i'll concede! Greg (talk) (contribs) 19:58, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

The Vizsla is not that rare of a breed and you'd need a source that states that instead of your own research. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:33, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

it would be like if you were doing cars. it would be pointless to put all the notable toyota owners, or notable suburu owners - but notable lamborghini countache owners? now that might be interesting. Vizslas are lamborghinis in the dog world - I know because I own one. a vizsla, not a lamborghini :) Greg (talk) (contribs) 20:01, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

also, what is your reason for leaving just two people on there? why not delete the category entirely? What makes those two worthy of the category? the way i see it, deleting almost an entire section should warrant some chatter on this talk page before doing it - would be helpful for everyone if we waited to hear from other wikipedians Greg (talk) (contribs) 20:04, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Because it is an in 'in popular culture' section. One of these is a book that prominently features a Vizsla and the other references a comedy sketch which includes a Vizsla (although unverified). If the latter thing can be verified that would be an example of a Vizsla in popular culture. Traumnovelle (talk) 21:35, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

okay, but again, to limit the category to just two obscure references that no one even cares about - and one reference that has no source to support it - as opposed to the broader category of Vizsla owners that people would actually find interesting - is in my eyes a waste, may as well just delete the whole thing. yes i'm a vizsla owner but that's an asset more than bias because i have the inside scoop. and clearly a vizlsa owner wrote the majority of the article. any-hoo, thanks for the convo Greg (talk) (contribs) 19:33, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

'X owns a Vizsla' is the most boring possible thing you could write. I've never been a fan of 'in popular culture' sections but a trivial list of people owning a dog is such useless information I don't even remember a single name from it anymore. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:55, 12 October 2024 (UTC)