Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

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Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
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Bluethricecreamman

Latest comment: 12 days ago11 comments7 people in discussion

Everyone should stop edit warring, long term and otherwise. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:09, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Bluethricecreamman

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: BilledMammal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:42, 8 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: Bluethricecreamman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Violating WP:1RR and edit warring at Genocide of indigenous peoples by repeatedly reinstating the same disputed content:

17:49, 24 June 2024
20:28, 5 August 2024
13:21, 6 August 2024 (self-reverted 13:51, 6 August 2024 following talk page request)
12:44, 7 August 2024

They refused to self-revert, saying that because they self-reverted 13:21, 6 August 2024 they were free to re-implement the edit. However, my understanding is that self-reverting, particularly when done only after the self-revert is requested, doesn't permit editors to ignore the most recent revert when re-implementing the edit and doing so comes across as WP:GAMING.

It is relevant that an RfC was held on including this content, which closed as "no consensus". As the content was only in the article for six weeks, insufficient to establish it as the status quo, this means it should be excluded until a consensus is found to include it and editors should not be reinstating it even when done without edit warring or 1RR violations.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 16:29, 19 January 2024 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

23:42, 8 August 2024

Discussion concerning Bluethricecreamman

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Bluethricecreamman

a) I've explained revert then self revert doesn't count towards the counter, but BilledMammal has been harrassing me and others in talkpage to self revert. Also like... wouldn't the applicable place for this report be the edit war noticeboard? WP:AN/EW. Bluethricecreamman (talk)
Seen some folks argue that no consensus means removal. WP:NOCONSENSUS states specifically "When discussions of proposals to add, modify, or remove material in articles end without consensus, the common result is to retain the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit." Obviously, after that May RFC fails, we should probably keep the version of the article that had been in place since March with the included paragraph. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 18:43, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Response to result: Glad to have been informed, will read the AC/CT more carefully next time. Will update my behavior accordingly. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 19:48, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Doing a self-revert on last edit. Bluethricecreamman (talk)

Statement by ABHammad

I also noticed these problematic diffs, which seem to be part of a broader recent trend where disputed content is repeatedly inserted through edit warring in ARBPIA, despite being reverted multiple times. When asked to stop and wait for consensus, there are editors who reintroduce the disputed content anyway and insist that discussions should focus on whether the new content should be removed, rather than if it should be added in the first place. In some cases, they claim consensus exists, even when reverts indicate otherwise. Here are a few examples for these re-adds,leading to controversial content now appearing in the article:

Genocide of indigenous peoples: beside Bluethericecreamman, the disputed content was also restored by others following the RFC closure as no consensus: [1], [2].
Palestinians, where a new description as native/indigenous was introduced through edit warring: [3] [4] [5]
Israeli allegations against UNRWA, where a scope change in all but name was introduced through edit warring, [6], [7], while a RM to move to "UNRWA and Israel" is now ongoing.
Similar dynamics can be found also at Zionism. This is how its primary description as a "movement that ... aimed for the establishment of a Jewish state through the colonization of a land outside of Europe." was introduced, despite many reverts and substantial talk disagreement.

This seems why this may be part of the reason why Wikipedia is not pereceived as trustworthy anymore by some outside media when it comes to ARBPIA. ABHammad (talk) 08:46, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by Left guide

@Bluethricecreamman: No, that noticeboard is only for normal edit-warring subject to 3RR in non-contentious topics. For edit-warring in designated contentious topics with stricter revert rules, this is the appropriate venue. Left guide (talk) 10:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

All else being equal, WP:ONUS policy clause stipulates that disputed material stays out of an article unless and until there is a consensus for its inclusion:

The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.

Left guide (talk) 20:19, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by Selfstudier

@BilledMammal: 6 weeks? Where's that from? (also see Wikipedia_talk:Consensus#WP:NOCONSENSUS where myself and others aren't in agreement with your rather simplistic take on this matter). As for who started it, that would have been yourself on 5 August, a month and a half (!) after the RFc closure on 25 June? Selfstudier (talk) 19:22, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Result concerning Bluethricecreamman

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

A self revert does not reset the revert counter, in my opinion. Beyond that @Bluethricecreamman: I suggest you re-read the introduction to to contentious topics given your comments as from what I read here you to need edit carefully and constructively (emphasis in the original). In contentious topics Wikipedia’s norms and policies are more strictly enforced and so this self-evert resets your ability to do other reverts. In general your response here - including the suggestion it's the wrong forum which it's not - indicates you don't understand what it means to be a contentious topic and don't understand that norms and policies being more strictly enforced are exactly about this sort of thing. Barkeep49 (talk) 18:55, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Given Blue's response I am ok closing this without further action. Barkeep49 (talk) 19:50, 9 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I think a reminder that long term edit warring is still edit warring wouldn't go amiss, although that goes for most editors in the topic area. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

PeleYoetz

Latest comment: 7 days ago13 comments7 people in discussion

Moot, as a companion thread was referred to the Arbitration Committee. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:55, 24 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning PeleYoetz

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Levivich (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:42, 11 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: PeleYoetz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPIA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

New three-month old account, same old edit wars.

Zionism
- Removals of "colonization" and similar (partial list: editors who have been sanctioned recently or have pending reports at AE): Kentucky Rain24 (KR) June 6, האופה June 7, KR June 8, ABHammad June 10 (another), O.maximov June 11, האופה June 12, ABHammad July 2, O.maximov July 3, האופה July 4, Icebear244 July 4, [fully-protected July 11-14], ABHammad July 21 (predicate edit for #ABHammad report), PeleYoetz Aug 11 - first and only edit to the article with edit summary Reverted to the last stable version ...
- first and only talk page comment - There's clearly no consensus here ... I see 9-10 voices against the change.
  - Icebear244 Jul 4, filing the complaint against Nishidani: There is significant opposition to the proposed changes (at least 7 editors) evident on both the talk page and through repeated restorations of the last stable version.
  - Icebear244 later on Jul 4 clarifies it's 9, not 7: You seem to have overlooked @האופה, who also opposed using the term in the discussion, and it appears @Vegan416 did too.
  - האופה July 4: ... At least 7 editors clearly oppose this framing
  - Of the 9-10 editors, 3 have been blocked, 1 TBANed, 1 0RR, and 3 currently have pending AE reports
Israel - "various causes" / "various reasons": ABHammad Jun 23, האופה Jun 23, O.maximov Aug 3 (predicate edit for #O.maximov report), האופה Aug 6, PeleYoetz Aug 8 - first and only edit to the article, with edit summary there is no consensus for this new change. No talk page posts.
Israeli allegations against UNRWA
- האופה Aug 7 - removes it entirely in their first edit to the article with edit summary this article is about UNRWA involvement in October 7, not the history of Israeli-UNRWA relations, removing recently added material that totally changed the scope
  - They had not participated in the talk page discussion prior to reverting
  - One talk page message immediately prior to the revert: 1; more after: 2, 3, 4
- PeleYoetz Aug 7 - removes it entirely in their first and only edit to the article with edit summary the scope was changed without real discussion on the proposed change
  - They had not participated in the discussion on the talk page prior to reverting
  - Two talk page messages immediately prior to the revert: 1, 2

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics): July 21

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Outside of the editors I've reported to AE, in this topic area, right now, I don't believe you will find other examples of what this report shows: two editors, "Editor A" and "Editor B", where Editor B:

Repeats Editor A's edits, votes the same way as Editor A, or otherwise "backs up" Editor A
Three times at three different articles
At articles they've never edited before
Where they've also never before participated on the talk page
Where they contribute nothing to the article except backing up Editor A
Within the first few months of editing

We can even drop #6, I still don't think there's another example outside of what I've posted at AE lately. @Vanamonde93: Would it change your mind if, instead of three times, it was six times? Here are three more examples: A, B; A, B; A, B. As a bonus, here's a seventh example, this time the order is reversed: B, A. This is not normal editing; this isn't something other editors do. But if we allow this to happen, if we say this is an OK thing to do, then others will start doing it, too. Levivich (talk) 19:25, 12 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Though PeleYoetz continued editing after I filed this report, they haven't edited since Van asked for their comment four days ago. FWIW I'm fine for this to be closed as moot if admins want to; if there is future disruption, I or someone else can ask for admin intervention if needed. Levivich (talk) 21:54, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: Special:Diff/1239832259

Discussion concerning PeleYoetz

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by PeleYoetz

Hello everyone,

I have to admit that I'm not entirely sure what's going on here. Most of my Wikipedia activity is focused on tourism and food-related topics. I've only made a few edits regarding the conflict, and since then, I've felt increasingly targeted. It began with Selfstudier questioning on my talk page how I found the UNRWA page, a topic that made headlines in my home country of Israel the same day (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APeleYoetz&diff=1239101772&oldid=1236281410). Then came this report by Levivich, which I still don't fully understand, and now I've received a strange question from Nableezy on my talk page (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3APeleYoetz&diff=1240399865&oldid=1239832259). I’m getting the impression that my contributions on the conflict are simply unwelcome.

If I've made any mistakes or violated Wikipedia policies, I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know. I've read through many pages before editing, and I hope I haven't done anything wrong.

Thank you. PeleYoetz (talk) 10:26, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by Selfstudier

Until recently I had no real involvement with this editor other than giving an awareness notice in July. Just to add to Levivich diffs:

At Majdal Shams, First of two edits (inconsequential second edit a minute after that) to the article, nothing on talk page, arrives 2 minutes after האופה (aka HaOfa) edit and changes the SD from Town in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights -> Druze town in the northern Golan Heights, an obvious POV edit.

At Masada myth, shows up at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Masada myth same day as nominated by HaOfa, no prior article edits or at talk page. Agrees with HaOfa.

Same pattern at Israeli allegations against UNRWA, no prior involvement and then consecutive reverts, HaOfa then PeleYoetz.

It is doubtful that this pattern is coincidental. PeleYoetz role appears to be as back up for HaOfa, to support their actions.

Statement by Sean.hoyland

I wish PeleYoetz had decided to say nothing rather than write about being targeted, having strange questions and being unwelcome. Now I need to ask whether it matters that an editor with ~1050 edits spread over ~380 different pages has 175 pages in common with topic banned and blocked editor User:Gilabrand?

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83	33517212	0	Jerusalem_Cinematheque
84	36102593	0	Jerusalem_Festival_of_Light
85	4627669	0	Jerusalem_Film_Festival
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88	64638100	0	Jerusalem_bagel
89	23116893	0	Jerusalem_mixed_grill
90	144128	0	Jerusalem_syndrome
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172	2330411	3	Ynhockey
173	5334377	0	Zhug
174	34484	0	Zionism

Sean.hoyland (talk) 12:25, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (username)

Result concerning PeleYoetz

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I don't see what action I could reasonably take here. The ideal approach to a content dispute is for all parties to engage substantively on the talk page until it's sorted, via RfC and outside input if needed. Across the ARBPIA conflict, editors don't do this; instead are slow-moving multi-party edit-wars, and considerable stonewalling on talk pages. When this behavior becomes egregious I'm open to sanctioning anyone and everyone involved, but I don't see anything here rising to that level. A lot of users could stand to engage better on the talk page(s). Vanamonde93 (talk) 18:04, 12 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'd be interested to hear from PeleYoetz in light of the most recent diffs. As I've said elsewhere, agreement between parties heavily invested in the topic is to be expected; a similar pattern from editors not substantively engaged implies off-wiki coordination. Vanamonde93 (talk) 19:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I'm generally addressing this at #האופה since it's basically the same report, but these types of patterns are wildly easy to find looking at anyone who is involved in the topic area. In less than ten minutes I found more damning "evidence" for two other editors active in the topic. As I said there, if we're going to sanction based on these patterns it would have to be evenly enforced and boy howdy it would be a mess. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:11, 13 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I think tag-team edit-warring is disruptive. If regulars aren't willing to not be disruptive, then yeah, they've kind of forced our hand. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 18:20, 13 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Close with no action, hopefully addressed at Arbcom? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:10, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Are you suggesting no action is the appropriate outcome or are you suggesting that refer to arbcom is the right outcome but since we're already there nothing more needs to be done? Barkeep49 (talk) 18:12, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
The latter. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:23, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Lima Bean Farmer

Latest comment: 1 day ago15 comments5 people in discussion

Lima Bean Farmer's topic ban on post-1992 American politics is successfully appealed, with a note that there will be little patience for any resumption of disruption. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:13, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Lima Bean Farmer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 04:50, 13 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sanction being appealed: Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2020 § c-Dreamy Jazz-2020-12-19T12:38:00.000Z-American politics 2

Administrator imposing the sanction: Dreamy Jazz (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: [8]

Statement by Lima Bean Farmer

I am looking to appeal a topic ban on post-1992 American politics. These case would be more open and shut if there weren’t a more recent edit to this ban. The original ban was over 3 years ago for post-1932 American politics but was changed to post-1992 American politics over a year ago. I would like to edit in this section a bit more freely, and I have not faced any sanctions or other administrative action since then. I have made large structural edits to pages such as List of productions impacted by the 2023 Writers Guild of America strike and List of convicted war criminals, demonstrating my ability to work with other editors to come to consensus while also using reliable sources when and where appropriate. In summary, since my last appeal, I have demonstrated more frequent Wikipedia editing that follows guidelines, helps productive editing, and understanding consensus for the past year. Having knowledge in the topic of post-1992 politics, having this topic ban lifted would allow me greater freedom for productive editing. Thank you for your decision in advance! Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 04:50, 13 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am not sure if it is appropriate to reply here, but I would like to address that the reason I was indefinitely blocked was for socking. I do acknowledge that using an alternative account most times, but especially to evade a ban or block is wrong. I can assure it won’t happen again and I can assure that it hasn’t happened in the past 3+ years. Please let me know if this addresses your concern. Thank you Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 13:00, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I believe I already spoke on the part of editing (please let me know if you’d like me to further clarify), but the indefinite ban was due to socking. I will avoid this issue by never editing with another account, especially to evade or bypass a block or ban. I can assure that I haven’t done this in the past 3+ years since the ban and can assure you that I won’t do it again in the future. Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 19:56, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
ScottishFinnishRadish, I had to go back and check but it was a 3 month ban for “disruptive editing”. I believe this was due to a high volume of editing in this topics at that time and my edits/experience not being up to par. A mix of things caused this I believe, including edit warring/not using talk pages appropriately, not using edit summaries regularly, and adding unsourced content. All of these are things I have demonstrated at least some level of proficiency in over the past 3 years (although I am most definitely still learning a lot here) and have shown a commitment to becoming a better more productive editor. Thank you Lima Bean Farmer (talk) 20:42, 20 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by Dreamy Jazz

Based on a quick look from their contributions and what others have said at WP:ARCA, it seems that Lima Bean Farmer has been editing constructively elsewhere.

However, the text of this appeal does not directly address the reasons why the indefinite topic ban was placed. I would, personally, like to see some acknowledgement of what led up to the topic ban and a commitment to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

For example, in their last appeal they said please don’t hold a grudge when asked about a comment they made while appealing their block. I would like to be sure that Lima Bean Farmer understands that we need to see that they have changed, and therefore we are not holding a grudge but instead want to be sure that the topic ban is no longer necessary. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 06:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

As to socking, I have not run a check. Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 06:36, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Lima Bean Farmer

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal by Lima Bean Farmer

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm generally amenable to appeals made after a few years, but I'm interested in Dreamy Jazz's thoughts, as well as if there has been any further socking. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:22, 15 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Lima Bean Farmer, can you please explain why the indefinite topic ban was placed and how you will avoid the same issues in the future? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:25, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

And what were the issues that led to the original topic ban? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:29, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Anyone else? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:28, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Unless anyone else objects, I'll be closing this as a successful appeal with a note that there will be little patience for any further disruption. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:54, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I support this outcome. Barkeep49 (talk) 15:03, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I would be more enthusiastic in supporting the appeal if we weren't approaching the peak US political period. However, to move this forward I will support the appeal while noting that there won't be much patience in the area of post-1992 American politics for the foreseeable future. Johnuniq (talk) 03:57, 27 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Lemabeta

Latest comment: 9 days ago19 comments6 people in discussion

Lemabeta is indefinitely topic-banned from the history of the Caucasus and its cultural heritage, broadly construed. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 15:34, 22 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Lemabeta

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Vanezi Astghik (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:35, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: Lemabeta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

15 August 2024: Reverts to their original POV WP:OR. The problem with these are: “Armeno-Georgian” or Mamikonian roots is supported by the sources in the article (including 3 in the lede), yet the user removes the “Armeno” part and adds doubt to Mamkionian roots for no reason (second time now), engaging in WP:TE and WP:OR.
10 June 2024: Removes content based on “outdated” source Brosset, 1849. FYI, it's the same source that's used for Georgian origins [9]; apparently it's outdated for one thing, but can stay for another.
10 June 2024: Adds “cn” templates to existing sources and adds unexplained doubt.
15 August 2024: Removes material that's in the body; this after being specifically called out for selective POV-pushing in the previous edits and shown an additional modern WP:RS in the same comment (which was added to the article), RS that literally supported the info they removed.
24 July 2024: Another WP:TE and WP:OR push by changing sourced material under the guise of “WP:NEUTRALITY violation”. If you read the book's page, it literally says; “These three men, Davit Soslan, Zakare and Ivane Mkhargrdzeli restored the kingdom to a position of conquest”.
13 August 2024: undue Georgian POV with an “Agritourism guide” book despite the lede already having 2 sources, including a far better book from Oxford University that specializes in cheeses and states (including with a quote already in the ref); “Twisted string cheese, chechil panir, husats, or tel cheese are Armenian pasta filata cheeses,…”.
15 August 2024: Reverts to their undue POV now with WP:PRIMARY Georgian government source; this comes after they were shown the quote from the better secondary source that’s in the lede already which doesn’t support their POV.
29 June 2024: WP:OR removes any mention of Armenian from 1st paragraph and adds unexplained doubt, with OR opinionated summary “Armenocentric article”.
5 July: Removes any mention of Armenian and adds WP:OR doubt, no explanation.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on March 8, 2024

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Lemabeta has been pushing heavy Georgian POV in Armenia-Georgia articles, while downplaying Armenia/Armenians, WP:OR changes of sourced material / adding WP:OR doubt to sources, disregard of sources, or removal of sourced material. I think it’s time AE reviews Lemabeta’s behavior; I’ve tried to talk with them but to no avail, usually they revert and restore their original problematic edits, or push new POV.

Makes personal attacks during AE; "If you could read, you would see that...".

Adds more unexplained WP:OR doubt [10] to a WP:RS during AE.

Response to [11]: I don't think saying the user seemed eager to be blocked was a threat as the user was edit-warring [12], [13] during AE despite not having consensus for changing stable version or adding weaker sources that were directly challenged on talk, thus violating WP:ONUS.

I believe this comment is content related which is intended for talk pages.

Lemabeta claims "I simply didn't look at the sources of other sentences...", but they literally put "cn" tags on everything in this section (even when mostly sourced) excluding the Georgian origins paragraph which had the most outdated source; funny how the only paragraph they "didn't look" suits their POV. And even after, when I added better (modern/expert) source and told them about it [14], they still removed content sourced by it [15] and then put doubt on it [16]. Vanezi (talk) 03:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[17]

Discussion concerning Lemabeta

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Lemabeta

1)Cyril Toumanoff work is cited in the source, while Cyril himself never says that the Tumanishvili house was an Armenian house, but rather he says that the origins of Tumanishvili house go back to Mamikonians who Cyril considers to have originated in Georgia specifically in Zaneti region, he in his work mentions that the root of the last name Mamikonian - Mamik comes from the Georgian language theory which is also accepted by the famous Armenian historian - Nicholas Adontz, they both connected the roots of Mamikonians and therefore roots of Tumanishvili to Georgian - Lazs .^[1] ^[2] Which was deleted by the individual reporting me.

2-3-4)The Pro-Armenian POV pushing is visible from the 2nd reference link he inserted---> [18] as you can see the he wrote that the "The Albano-Armenian theory is mostly accepted today, Adarnase being the first independent sovereign of Hereti, which was most likely an Armenian territory beforehand and followed the Monophysitism of Albanians and Armenians instead of the Christian Orthodoxy of the Bagrationis" meanwhile adding a source of Brosset, Marie-Félicité who lived in 19th century, by what standards is this considered as a "modern historians" - plural. Moreover, theory of Brosset is denounced today as he wasn't aware of the medieval works of historians attributing Adarnase of Hereti to Chosroid dynasty of Caucasus, which i inserted in the newer changes, which was completely deleted by the individual reporting me.therefore theory that isn't accepted by most, shouldn't be in the leading.

While Heretian Georgians are still presentHeretians or Ingiloys descendants of a legendary Heros, he keeps changing the Kingdom of Hereti ethnic affiliation to "South Caucasian" to a broader term than Georgian is. Meanwhile in modern historiography Kingdom of Hereti is considered as a Georgian monarchy 5) reference which he inserted [19] --- Since when is NPOV wording of a sentence considered as Armenophobia? But he wants to make it look like Armenian and Alan were the only reason of success of Kingdom of Georgia.

6)-7) Now let's talk about the deletion of sourced material by the individual reporting me. [20] Whole sourced etymology section was removed, because it didn't fit the pro-Armenian narrative he's pushing. Moreover, on Chechili geographical indication is registered in Georgia, protecting the origins of Chechili, which i wrote according to the articles such as Champagne. Chechili origins and GI are protected in more than 30 countries.

8)Melikishvili-Melikov was never known as-Melikyan.Melikov was a russified form of Melikishvili after it was written by Heraclius II as part of Georgian nobility in treaty of Georgievsk^[3]

9)Wikipedia:No personal attacks violation by him "So you have nothing else to do but to edit war again after posting a ridiculous WP:OR rant on a clear scholar"[21] also violations are seen here by using offensive language[22]

"if you could read" isn't an insult. It's same as "If you may" or to politely ask someone. Lemabeta (talk) 15:10, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Lemabeta (talk) 15:13, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

[23] also the threatening to get me blocked "Seems like you're just eager to get blocked ot topic-banned" Lemabeta (talk) 10:55, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

In reply to Rosguill's initial comment I simply didn't look at the sources of other sentences due to the busy schedule involving my masters degree exams. Now that i am aware of the poorly written article, i will take my part in and contribute to the richening of Adarnase Sumbatashvili page, especially because i am a direct descendant of his paternal line. Lemabeta (talk) 17:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

In reply to Rosguill's comment So it's better to have an unargumentative and a provocational claim stated as an absolute fact in an article than to delete it? It should have been discussed in a talk page if there was something wrong with my edit instead of accusing me and reporting me of anything firstly.

Moreover, in the talk page [[24]] he had a problem over Kingdom of Hereti being refered to as a Georgian kingdom, thats where the problem lies, thats why he was writing King as "South Caucasian" and Kingdom as "South Caucasian" kingdom. If you want to topic ban me, do it. But my honor in front of god is clean and you can not change that--Lemabeta (talk) 07:58, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

References

^ Армения в эпоху Юстиниана: Политическое состояние на основе Нахарского строя, СПб., 1908, cт. 402-404 (Nicholas Adontz, Armenia in the Period of Justinian: The political Conditions Based on the Naxarar System. Trans. into Eng. with expanded notes, bibliography, and appendices by Nina G. Garsoian, Lisbon, 1970)
^ (Toumanoff 1963, p. 211, n. 23.).
^ (in Russian) Stanislav Vladimirovich Dumin. Pyotr Grebelsky. The Noble Houses of the Russian Empire. Moscow, Russia: 1994. Думин С. В., Гребельский П. Х. Дворянские роды Российской Империи. — Москва, 1994

Statement by Spinney Hill

It is possible that this cheese is traditionally made in both Armenia and Georgia or that each country claims to be the origin. Something similar may be the case with Gruyere, which is certainly made in Switzerland and France although this is not quite reflected in the wp article on that cheese. See the following source Larousse gastronomique p534 English edition published by Hamlyn (London) 1988 translated from the 1984 French edition.ISBN 0 600 32390 0 More on this source later. .I do not have the sources OUP or the Tbilisi equivalent relied on by the two editors so I cannot comment. I have not seen any other articles on Armenian or Georgian subjects they may have clashed on. The online sources are inconclusive. At an early stage in the argument I put in a piece based on a British Government source showing that Britain recognised a kind of chechill was made in Georgia. I also found a general source which showed it was "a European and Central Asian cheese" suggesting it was made anywhere and everywhere from the west of Ireland an Portugal to Mongolia. I put a sentence in mentioning this but I am considering withdrawing this as it does not seem accurate. I am a cheese lover but I have never seen or tasted it in UK where I live nor any of the other western or central European countries I have been to (even Greece) The only other sources my Google search revealed were cheese selling sites which revealed the cheese was also made in US, Turkey (I think), Bulgaria.and South Africa! I have searched my copy of Larousse gastronomique-see above. The article on cheese does not mention chechil, nor does it mention Georgia or Armenia. Chechill does not have its own article as do many cheeses such as Gruyere, Stilton and Gorgonzola, nor do Armenia or Georgia. I also searched Russia as this is a 1984 book and both countries were part of the USSR . Here it says Georgia was home to a hard cheese called tuchouri.. No cheese is mentioned for Armenia. The only other "Russian" cheese mentioned is Sovietski which has its own article and which presumably is either no longer made or has been renamed.. I think both parties have shown intemperate, but both have made some valid points and surely a compromise article should be arrived at showing that the cheese is made in both countries. I am not sure if an origin can be stated with accuracy. Spinney Hill (talk) 14:29, 18 August 2024 (UTC) I think Tbillisi University is quite capable of having an independent unbiased publishing arm. It is no longer part of the USSR or even Russia.Spinney Hill (talk) 14:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Lemabeta

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Vanezi Astghik, you're at about 670 words. Please trim to 500, and consider whether you'd like to save some words for future replies. Lemabeta, you're right at the limit; do not respond further. Both of you can request an extension, but I wouldn't recommend it at this time. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:06, 17 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

While at first blush I was tempted to say that this was just a content dispute and should be resolved via RfC, I am concerned by Lemabeta's responses. With regard to point 2 in particular, this is the state of the article as of when Lemabeta began to edit it. While it's valid to contest the validity of a 19th century source, it is glaring that this source already comprises 2/3 of the citations in the article, including, as noted in the initial report, the specific claims of Bagratoni/Georgian heritage. It's hard to assume good faith of the objections to the sourcing of other claims to these same sources. I'm also dissatisfied with Lemabeta's response listed as "6-7", as, irrespective of the merits of the underlying edits, in this context Lemabeta's addition of content could be taken as the continuation of an edit war for a matter actively, so accusing Vanezi of deletion of sourced material seems a bit off base--at this juncture, adding the material was not appropriate: it should have been discussed, and potentially resolved via RfC if a consensus could not be reached between the two of you and other editors watching the article. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 16:06, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Lemabeta, at AE replies are not threaded (except occasionally between admins); new comments should be placed in your own section (I have moved the substantive portion of yours already as a courtesy). You're also a bit over your word limit--rather than request that you retract or rephrase, I'm just going to issue Vanezi Astghik a commensurable 50-word extension so that you're both allowed the same amount. Please do not reply further in this case unless addressed directly for comment _signed,Rosguill ^talk 22:14, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Having now actually reviewed the content of Lemabeta's response, I don't find this explanation persuasive at all given the length of the article at the time and the position of the content edited vs other content that had previously been the crux of the dispute. And even if it were persuasive, it would still be a violation of the WP:CTOP instruction to edit carefully--if you're so rushed that you overlook such an obvious issue with your edit, you shouldn't be editing this topic. I'd appreciate other admins' input, but am currently leaning toward a topic ban on history of the Caucasus, including the history of its cultural heritage, broadly construed. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 22:40, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I agree, although possibly only an article-space topic ban, leaving them an allowance to engage on talk pages, as there is no evidence of talk page disruption given. That said, bespoke sanctions of that sort seldom work, and create more work for the others in the topic area, so I'm also fine with the standard topic ban. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:32, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Just based on the diffs coming since the awareness notice, I'm seeing actionable POV-pushing. The legalese OR at places like Talk:Chechil#Georgian origins of the cheese is disruptive enough that I'd favor a standard topic ban, though I'm happy to see it kept as narrow as Rosguill's suggestion. It is reflective of the problem that Lemabeta has worsened their word limit violation despite the direct instructions from myself and Rosguill. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 23:13, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Firefangledfeathers, @ScottishFinnishRadish, I’m not sure we’re interpreting my proposal the same way. My thinking was that the scope needs to be “Caucasus”, rather than Georgia or Armenia, because the pattern of editing suggests to me that if banned from those topics, they would likely continue similar disruption by editing to remove the claims of other neighboring culture groups that compete with Georgia’s. I included the extra clause about “history of its cultural heritage” as I anticipate that without such a stipulation we’ll see a breaching attempt at an article like Chechil with the argument that it’s “not history”. While of course such a move could be sanctioned (although in my experience more likely than not it would result in just a final stern warning), getting ahead of it now would save us some wikilawyering. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 12:57, 21 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

That's how I interpreted it. I'd prefer that over an article-only ban. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:48, 21 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

ScottishFinnishRadish, is this option amenable to you, at least as a second choice? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 12:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yeah, I'm fine with that. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:53, 22 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Bajaria - 2

Latest comment: 12 days ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Blocked by me for one week for ECR violations. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:14, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Second request concerning Bajaria

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: The Kip (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: Bajaria (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: ARBPIA ECR, again

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

See the case still on this page above, but linked here for convenience. They received a two-day block after multiple warnings, and it subsequently took them three days to go right back to editing in the area:

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Blocked 48 hours on 11 August by @Theleekycauldron: for ARBPIA ECR violations, covered in the aforementioned/above case.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Copied from above:

Initial CTOP notice given 07:47 on 4 August.
Template:Welcome-arbpia given 07:55 on 10 August.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

As mentioned in the first case, Bajaria was given the CTOP notice on 4 August, given the ARBPIA welcome template and an additional warning by myself on 10 August, was aware and responded to the case above, and was blocked for the ECR violations. That they went right back to them, and that they were overly confrontational/didn't seem to acknowledge the repeated warnings that they aren't allowed to be editing in the ARBPIA area at the initial report, makes me wonder if CIR may come into play. Again, this really is a shame, because from their contribs it seems they could be legitimately productive if they properly worked towards XC status - they just don't seem to get that ECR is a hard-line rule. The Kip ^(contribs) 21:20, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified at time of report.

Discussion concerning Bajaria

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Bajaria

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Bajaria

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Blocked a week. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:28, 16 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Peckedagain

Latest comment: 10 days ago11 comments8 people in discussion

Peckedagain is indefinitely topic banned from gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, broadly construed. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:39, 21 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Peckedagain

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Raladic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:21, 17 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: Peckedagain (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender and sexuality

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

09:34, 13 August 2024 Edit-warring with continuous POV pushing as warned by User:Licks-rocks on their talk page
11:45, 16 August 2024 More POV pushing and completely changing the prose of the lead making it appear as if it is contentious beyond just the UK. Reverted by User:Crossroads [25]
12:20, 17 August 2024 and then they just reverted it again, placing their POV there
16:01, 17 August 2024 more edit-warring of previously reverted content by User:Snokalok
11:13, 13 August 2024 insertion of the very same editorialized edits they were warring over on the other article above, again POV pushing
13:32, 17 August 2024 Deletion of large swaths of well supported RS
21:04, 17 August 2024 Adding undue content trying to whitewash Conversion therapy#Gender exploratory therapy, violating NPOV, UNDUE
21:57, 17 August 2024‎ Again, reversion against consensus of adding coatrack NPOV of prior undo from another user, reverted by User:Flounder fillet
00:47, 18 August 2024 And now pushing their POV on another article without discussion, after having been warned about it on the other article's talk page and having responded to the AE here.
21:00, 19 August 2024 - The user has now started WP:CANVASSing people who may share their views to this AE discussion
23:15, 19 August 2024 NPA accusation without the receipts, the lead of Cass Review clearly supports the statement that it was commissioned for policies of the country
23:40, 19 August 2024 BLP vio, defamation (was REVDEL'd)
21:14, 20 August 2024 More POV pushing, it's getting pretty wild - can we strike a lot of this after enforcement?
00:31, 21 August 2024 Second time making the same BLP vio on defamation (WP:REVDEL by admin)

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

User_talk:Peckedagain#Introduction_to_contentious_topics

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The editor appears to be a WP:SPA that joined several months ago, coinciding with the UK's release of the Cass Review, which has been hailed by anti-trans organizations and the user has continuously tried to push anti-trans content in multiple articles since joining. They will often make far ranging changes without actual consensus that had to have been reverted by multiple users. At this point with the latest swath of bad edits that I've linked above that occurred over just the last few days, which were the final straw of why I'm now bringing this to AE (there would be many more that could be pulled up). I don't think this editor is making useful contributions to the GENSEX CTOP area, as they require countless reversions and corrections, so I'm requesting a Topic ban to stop the unconstructive editing of the user.

(On a side note, while this user has been particularly egregious, ever since the UKs release of the Cass Review, there has been a considerable uptick of anti-trans POV pushing happening on various articles, with some editors pushing these views often WP:TAGTEAMing on it, so as someone recently mentioned at ANI, there may very well be a time for a new ArbCom case to help curtail this anti-trans POV pushing that is becoming very WP:TENDENTIOUS.)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

22:23, 17 August 2024‎

Discussion concerning Peckedagain

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Peckedagain

edited 21 Aug - after Radalic's point 12 & 14

Radalic has reverted my posts on Cal Horton talk - root cause was a quote from another Talk page: both reverts did not state this.
see my [| my talk page]

Re the points:

1- @Licks-rocks has since praised my edits on that
7 The UKCP is a credible professional body: I quoted directly: "exploratory therapy must not be conflated with conversion therapy which seeks to change or deny a person’s sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Conversion therapy as so defined is harmful and must not be practised" Is that whitewashing ?
2 my edit is pulling up relevant detail from the page: before my edit the lead seemed to minimise that not all organisations supported puberty blockers. Radalic reverted, but could have engaged on Talk at the same time
4 after that reversion I opened a section on the Talk page, to invite comment on the importance of the UKCP statement. You have not given even 12 hours for Snokalok, or yourself, to share views there
6 Updated for: DanielRigal. Content was transferred to the PP page, apart from text stating what PP is. I checked now and I apologise, I did lose one sentence, starting: "They are also used in specific cases of hormone-sensitive cancers..."

In reply to "user's edits have mostly been unhelpful" by CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath: please see [this example] of constructive work, that took some time

In reply to new points:

8 - Ralidic also reverted positive work I did on the page - [Talk]
But regards the James Esses case, I am at fault: I now realise it was inappropriate for the Cass page, even though the UKCP statement referred to Cass in their opening line.
9 - Yes I am at fault: I didn't read carefully enough that I was being invited to use the Talk page, not the page. I have now done that.
10: as the diff shows -the bulk of my comment was praising editors of all persuasions and invited them to help on another page.

Is Raladic coming with clean hands to this issue? In the Talk page, they yesterday stated a view that has been many times in Talk shown to be misleading, to be wrongly undermining of what Cass actually is: "The government of one nation has issued a review for use of policies in that country. That is the purpose of the Cass Review, not more, not less." That seems to be a rut they are in, where they are at odds with the consensus of the cass page editors.

Because the Cass review included all worldwide evidence: although it was commissioned by one country, its scientific findings on PB evidence is valid to all.

Is Nosferattus coming with clean hands? - they are being criticized by others for 'completely wrong' statements, and by me for digging up resolved, dead questions

Statement by DanielRigal

I have not been following this closely but I saw the diff of the big revert, checked the history, and yeah, it looks like several days of edit warring in an attempt to add POV and remove other material from the Puberty blocker article by a (more-or-less) SPA. The big diff is 12.2KB but only ~8.5KB went into Precocious puberty so plenty of material would have disappeared had it not been reverted. Furthermore, moving it all into Precocious puberty doesn't make sense, as some of the material that was moved relates to the blockers in general and is not all specific to precocious puberty. The whole point of having a separate article about the blockers is to cover the medications in detail and leave Precocious puberty to focus on the condition itself, covering the blockers briefly, maybe with a little overlapping content but not too much. I feel that moving so much material about puberty blockers out of the article about puberty blockers has the effect of creating a void of factual medical information in that article, a void that can then be filled up with even more coverage of the trans related political "controversies" instead. That is not what we want in a medical article!

I had a quick look at Peckedagain's other edits. This was their very first edit which seems surprisingly advanced for a first edit. Maybe they edited anonymously before but clearly they had prior experience. Only a very small proportion of their edits are on topics other than transgender issues. Most of the edits I looked at showed signs tendentious editing to some degree. I think it is fair to call them an SPA.

I believe that a topic ban is justified. --DanielRigal (talk) 02:20, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath

I haven't been following this too closely however I recently interacted with the user at Talk:Puberty blocker. I'm not super familiar with the whole arbitration process on Wikipedia so please mistake any knowledge gaps here. Based on my interactions with the user it seems that they have very fixed beliefs on the topic of transgender healthcare and those views seem to be getting in the way of them making constructive edits. Several users have taken the time to explain to them why some of their edits have been unhelpful and despite this, they continue to make similar edits. I think a topic ban is appropriate here as the user's edits have mostly been unhelpful and they don't seem very open to changing how they contribute. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 02:41, 18 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The purpose of my statement was not to say that you have not made any quality contributions to Wikipedia; my point was that if we were to look at all of your contributions to Wikipedia and weigh them as being either helpful or unhelpful, the majority of your contributions would fall under the unhelpful category. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 01:14, 20 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

I didn't plan on updating my statement but I think this diff really shows the user's real intentions here and their clear lack of a neutral POV. I do see that an admin has weighed in on the topic but it doesn't seem like a conclusion has been reached yet. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 21:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by Licks-rocks

Since I've been mentioned here twice now, I'll inform the court that I have seen this. Not much to add, besides that I concur this is a CIR issue and that I have advised Pecked on their talkpage to edit in other areas of the wiki to build some experience. There's definitely some IDHT-symptoms here as well. [26] --Licks-rocks (talk) 23:02, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (LunaHasArrived)

I wasn't going to comment here because I thought everything I would say has been said but I think this users reaction to being bought to ae has increased their more problematic editing. As well as this one particular pov pushing diff #[27] caught my attention and was the main reason to comment. I really think the diff speaks for itself. I truly think pecked can be a productive editor and they have been praised for good editing previously. LunaHasArrived (talk) 21:50, 20 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by Nosferattus

Peckedagain's edit history shows a pattern of POV-pushing on issues related to transgender health care. Their editing on this topic is not in line with the guidelines at Wikipedia:Contentious topics, particularly adherence to WP:NPOV, so a topic ban may be in order. Nosferattus (talk) 01:42, 21 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Peckedagain

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

The edit warring is almost enough for a topic ban on its own, and the POV pushing found here with extensive quotation certainly isn't a good look. I think some experience in general editing before they're allowed to continue in GENSEX is probably a good idea. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:40, 19 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Agreed. We really don't need another POV-pushing SPA in this area, it's crowded enough with them already. Black Kite (talk) 10:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Johnrpenner

Latest comment: 1 day ago15 comments8 people in discussion

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Johnrpenner

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Tgeorgescu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:16, 21 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: Johnrpenner (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPS

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[28] 21 August 2024—violates WP:PSCI by immunizing Anthroposophy from falsification through performing WP:OR (seeks to reject the label of pseudoscience through attempting to make it look like a category mistake—but not according to any WP:RS)
a lot of previous edits at the same article, 21 August 2024, see e.g. [29], having the edit summary cutting like a knife between physics and metaphysics

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on [30] 2 May 2024 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Wikipedia is a collaborative environment—up to a point. We don't seek to "collaborate" with those who breach our WP:RULES with impunity. More to the point: Johnrpenner is violating WP:RULES such as WP:PSCI and WP:OR. If he thinks I'm wrong, he should WP:CITE mainstream WP:RS to that extent. Merely giving us his own opinion won't do. Again: his assertion that the label of pseudoscience is a category mistake, is solely based upon his own opinion. He did not WP:CITE anything to that extent. Even if his POV were the unvarnished truth, he still does not have WP:RS to that extent.
@Theleekycauldron: Until May 2024, I had no idea that Penner is a Wikipedia editor. In respect to what you say: I would accept a restriction of 1RR and a limit of 500 words per topic. Also, you have to consider that these Anthroposophists overtly stated they want me banned from Anthroposophy, so, while they knew they stand no chance in respect to their own edits, they were merely flamebaiting. Anthroposophists are generally speaking highly educated people, so if they behave as too dumb for their credentials, it is a token they are merely acting a show. Playing dumb and employing vicious libel (flamebait) is justified, according to them, since they are defending the public image of Anthroposophy. I mean: for a university-educated Lead Technical Writer it would be easy-peasy to understand they're breaching website policy. And if I lambasted them for failing to do so, my criticism was genuine and to the point. What do they stand to lose, here at Wikipedia? A bunch of disposable accounts. Since both Johnrpenner and the previous Anthroposophist at WP:AE are extremely fond of performing WP:OR—I don't think that's just a coincidence. When multiple accounts misunderstand Wikipedia in the same way, we may suspect they're WP:MEAT.
@Ealdgyth: It was not intended as mockery. I don't think he is unintelligent, and if he appears as unintelligent, that's for flamebaiting purposes (just to make me angry).
Full disclosure: there was an off-wiki hounding campaign against me, see [31], [32], and Talk:Anthroposophy#Evidence—which I now came to see as flamebaiting. Its objectives are overtly stated: recruit other editors against me and get me banned from Wikipedia. So, I see my opponents at these articles as an organized campaign, starting with October 2023, or even earlier. The only damage I did to Wikipedia is extensively bickering about being hounded. It is rather unusual for Wikipedia that a cult organizes off-wiki to take action against a specific editor.
If I get banned from Anthroposophy, the "Fortress Steiner" (here) will regain its upper hand. Anti-fringe editors will be reluctant to intervene, since they lack a deep understanding of the topic. So I will have to get unbanned as the only person able to restore order. tgeorgescu (talk) 04:40, 24 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[33] 21 August 2024

Discussion concerning Johnrpenner

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Johnrpenner

after making additions to the 'Anthroposophy' article — user tgeorgescu deleted / reverted my edits, and so i took it on to the talk page, asking him: instead of just deleting a whole bunch of stuff, why not engage in something more constructive? he did not engage in a friendly fashion, and quickly shut me down, and launched this Arbitration request against me.

if i were writing an article on the phenomenolgy of colour — i would expect to see criticism and debate — but i would also expect to see some effort in improving the article — doing what wikipedia does — helping provide some sense of the topic, which covers a neutral and informed point of view.

user tgeorgescu has expended considerable effort solely directed towards attacking and finding sources discrediting Anthroposophy (hundreds upon hundreds of edits.. almost as if it were some sort of personal vendetta). if one sees only efforts directed at this — then i might also question how neutral things are — when i dont see as much effort towards contributing anything that might help provide insight on the given topic.

tgeorgescu claims category error — and my claim is that anthroposophy is no more scientific than the subject of philosophy. in my edits — i did not dispute or remove his claims, and took care to preserve his references/links and to make it clear that anthroposophy is not scientific.

i believe i was following the wiki principle as stated in WP:RNPOV — as follows:

WP:RNPOV § Neutrality: In the case of beliefs and practices, Wikipedia content should not only encompass what motivates individuals who hold these beliefs and practices but also account for how such beliefs and practices developed. Wikipedia articles on history and religion draw from religion's sacred texts as primary sources and modern archaeological, historical, and scientific works as secondary and tertiary sources.

in short — this issue could have been more constructively solved with some friendly edits aimed at improving the article, and making a subject more understandable — for example:

i) what are the epistemogical differences which distinguish anthroposophy from critical idealism?

ii) from whom did steiner get the idea — the article mentioned 'German Idealism', but neglected to mention Goethe.

iii) the article talks about 'perception of the spiritual world' — but it fails to mention the key role Anthroposophists place on Intuition in this regard.

these would all be useful things to know if i was a reader and unfamiliar with the subject.

instead, tgeorgescu has undertaken to report me to arbitration — i find it disingenous to spend such an inordinate amount of time logging in such an amount of effort cataloguing all criticisms against Anthroposophy — without making any efforts towards providing the reader with a better comprehension of what is being criticized — the criticisms and critics tgeorgescu has referenced only makes a case for condemning Anthroposophists — and deleting or reverting edits which disagree with him — and ultimately weaponizing the wiki process — which i find is generally quite fair, and i expect someone might be able to follow up and arbitrate his disproportionate critical activity, and attacks against users like myself which are trying to make honest contributions (as i have helped improve numerous other wiki articles, and believe in the wiki process).

i have no complaint against a good critical review of contributions to wikipedia - good editors, good referencing, and the good will to work together instead of shutting people down is what makes wikipedia great and useful. please, lets work together, and find a way to make better articles. peace out. Johnrpenner (talk) 03:19, 22 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by fiveby

tgeorgescu could use some help at Talk:Anthroposophy in trying to nip problems in the bud before they escalate. See this this FTN thread from November of last year (maybe just read Hob Gadling's comment at the end of the collapsed "Extended content") All that effort expended when it turns out an editor was just using phony citations for content. When he raises issues at FTN i at least often feel behind the curve with an unfamiliar topic, and tgeorgescu usually seems to be going it alone on the talk page. I don't know if AE can do anything to help and maybe the answer here is just to remember to watchlist the articles and pay more attention. fiveby(zero) 06:36, 23 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by KoA

I want to echo's fiveby's sentiment above, and I would caution admins to be mindful to check out what they link at FTN. I’ve been noticing that problem at the noticeboards and tgeorgescu’s frustration too often handling a lot of fringe stuff and now apparently becoming a target off-wiki for it.

theleekycauldron, I am concerned about your comments here at this time in the AE and making them in the uninvolved admin section. I reviewed the talk page[34], and the only recent dispute was from this interaction at Talk:Anthroposophy#Violation_of_WP:PSCI. However, I couldn't verify any of your claims made without diffs there such as bludgeoning talk pages, going on long-winded "own the crazies" rants, insulting other editors, so that was a serious red flag when I instead saw tgeorgescu making very short replies and largely behaving properly at the time. The only little knock against them was that they should have stopped interacting before the I have already reported you at WP:AE. . . comment, but even those comments are relatively chill compared to your characterization. If there are recent diffs prior to when you commented, those are absolutely needed, because when I see a mismatch like that in depiction, that looks a lot more like battleground pursuit on your part that we'd typically see of involved editors behaving poorly. If anything, it looks like tgeorgescu's talk page use had actually vastly improved and it wasn't until you started needling tgeorgescu with your initial comment that they got off the rails here at AE. At least as I've tried to review this report with an even hand, you created more heat than light.

However tgeorgescu, I do have some advice after seeing your comments on talk pages over the years. Remember to center yourself on the ideas of WP:NOTFORUM/WP:FOC more often on article talk pages. I have seen you give in-depth answers at times when not needed or just posting on the talk page not clearly tied to any edit.[35] Sometimes I've seen you come back for an "and another thing" comment when the conversation was just likely to die. I saw that before your warning theleekycauldron mentions, and it looks like you've been vastly improving in what I've reviewed so far. That said, be careful about personalizing comments about editors or how comments might appear to be a battleground mentality. That too creates more heat than light like I just cautioned theleekycauldron. When I look at the AE after their comment, you brought up that you felt like you were being trolled by Johnrpenner at the article with comments like so if they behave as too dumb for their credentials. Even if you feel like that, don't take the WP:BAIT. You honestly were fine from what I can see initially until your interactions with theleekycauldron here. It wasn't until that moment I was seeing AE comments with a bit too much bite towards editors, so it didn't appear anything WP:PREVENTATIVE was needed on your part to that point. KoA (talk) 15:58, 24 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

ScottishFinnishRadish, I'm right at the word limit, so I'll leave it at this just to say the issue I saw was that when you look at recent edits before this AE (most stuff mentioned here is pretty stale or minor), it really did look like tgeorgescu was improving significantly in the last few months (especially the very last talk section at the page before AE) compared to the period of their warning or when I even told them to chill out on the treatises awhile back. Whatever threads the needle between "you've made some good improvements in mainspace/talk" and "you've still got scaling back to do" will be helpful here for a grounded approach. KoA (talk) 20:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Johnrpenner

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Looks like tgeorgescu is exhibiting the exact same behavior that landed them a logged warning for battleground behavior and incivility nine months ago. that's a shame, because they seem to solidly be in the right that Johnrpenner is only here to push a pseudoscientific POV. If Tgeorgescu doesn't agree to stop bludgeoning talk pages, going on long-winded "own the crazies" rants, insulting other editors, and generally behaving as if yelling at people about how wrong and stupid they are is the best way to make them go away, the pseudoscience topic area will lose a valuable editor. perhaps a topic ban from Anthroposophy is in order, since the last row took place there as well. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:22, 22 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Support topic banning Johnrpenner from Anthroposophy, broadly construed. Also support restricting tgeorgescu within ARBPS, broadly construed, such that they may not write more than 500 words across discussions related to this topic area (not 500 words per thread) in a calendar month; and placing them under 1RR. They are reminded to seek out admins before engaging in disruptive behavior in their attempts to combat disruptive behavior. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

@KoA: I'm taking my cues from this thread. Some of it was from before Johnrpenner was a wikipedian (although this isn't), but I don't think it'd be ridiculous to say that it's relevant to the onwiki portion of this spat. I'm also considering the sum of other threads they've started since the SamwiseGSix AE thread. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:37, 25 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Tgeorgescu - first, "A more nuanced view of how I see Anthroposophy:" has no bearing on how you should be editing. Your personal views are no more useful than the personal views of Johnrpenner or any other editors. In fact, you state later in this very filing that "Merely giving us his own opinion won't do" so putting your views here isn't helpful to the admins looking into your filing. Further, with "Malcontents should not blame me for what full professors write" you are continuing to describe other editors (I think? It's hard to tell if you're referring to other editors or merely folks who subscribe to Anthroposophy, but either way it's a sign of battleground behavior) as "malcontents". You were warned for this last November. Here's another unhelpful comment "I mean: for a university-educated Lead Technical Writer it would be easy-peasy to understand they're breaching website policy." ... you're clearly mocking the editor who you filed this against. Really, this battleground approach needs to stop.
Okay, so to the edit that is given as the basis for this filing: this edit, I see a description of the subject sourced to a pile of what appear to be independent reliable sources (at a quick glance) that is being replaced with stuff sourced to Steiner's own works. Also, I see that "Though proponents claim to present their ideas in a manner that is verifiable by rational discourse and say that they seek precision and clarity comparable to that obtained by scientists investigating the physical world, many of these ideas have been termed pseudoscientific by experts in epistemology and debunkers of pseudoscience." this sentence (which is sourced to the pile of independent sources) is replaced with "Anthroposophy does not belong to the study of the physical sciences, any more than Plato's Metaphysics should be considered Physics — doing so would be pseudoscientific" while still sourcing it to the same pile of reliable sources. This is source mis-representation unless each of those sources actually supports this new text (I'll go on a limb here and say it likely doesn't). On the griping hand, though, Johnrpenner isn't exactly a prolific editor - his edit count is around 1700, but they are widely spread out and mostly appear to relate to Goethe. While they are not editing well, I'm not sure they've had a chance to learn that wikipedia isn't a philosphical debating place. They need to learn to edit well with others, but either a topic ban from the narrow topic of Anthroposophy or a warning about their editing there would probably be fine. Ealdgyth (talk) 12:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
- Topic ban for Johnrpenner sounds good. I don't necessarily disagree about a word limit for Tgeorgescu, but I'm not sure it's going to work or be easy to enforce. Call me agnostic on it. Ealdgyth (talk) 15:02, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
A topic ban for Johnrpenner from Anthroposophy is reasonable, and some sort of anti-bludgeon/anti-thousands of words restriction on Tgeorgescu wouldn't be amiss either. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:27, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
KoA, just as an example of a long-winded "own the crazies" rants see User:Tgeorgescu#My quarrel with anthroposophists, or Talk:Anthroposophy#Category. I'd be interested in scaling back that type of engagement with the topic. I don't know if a word limit per month or discussion would be helpful, but even some advice or a warning might help. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:03, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

So the topic ban has consensus. How do we want to move forward with Tgeorgescu? Another warning, or something with a bit more oomph? I like the gist of Theleekycauldron's idea, but I don't know how we'd ever track it.

On a broader note, this issue comes up a lot where a milder sanction might be able to end disruptive behavior, but we end up warning a few times instead, and eventually we hit a tipping point and we end up with a more severe sanction. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:00, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Johnrpenner has been an editor since 2005 but is not yet experienced, having under 1800 edits. Their first edits (example from April 2005) concerned Rudolf Steiner, the founder of Anthroposophy. The current edits are not appropriate and I support a topic ban from articles related to Rudolf Steiner, or just Anthroposophy if others support that. I have spent time advising tgeorgescu that they should cut back on excessive commentary but in checking a couple of recent discussions, I could not see a problem. We need editors like tgeorgescu who are able and willing to keep articles based on reliable sources so my only suggestion in that area is that I would be happy to investigate if anyone wants to draw my attention to a future discussion where a participant might be overdoing it. I agree that ScottishFinnishRadish's links just above ("own the crazies") show excessive enthusiasm: tgeorgescu should stick to verifiable facts related to current editing proposals. Johnuniq (talk) 04:36, 27 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

TenPoundHammer

Latest comment: 2 days ago7 comments6 people in discussion

By consensus of uninvolved administrators, TenPoundHammer (talk · contribs) is reminded, as presently topic banned from deletion discussions, broadly construed, to not make comments on noticeboards or elsewhere on Wikipedia that suggest editors take an article to AfD. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 01:36, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning TenPoundHammer

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Morbidthoughts (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:40, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: TenPoundHammer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct in deletion-related editing#TenPoundHammer topic banned (1)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

22:31, 25 August 2024‎: Using BLPN for WP:PROXYING: "Seems to have had his fingers in a few pies but nothing passing WP:GNG. Strongly suggest prod or AFD."

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I don't see these types of prompts including the three that Nil Einne listed as being different from what got JPL blocked.[36] Morbidthoughts (talk) 19:01, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[37]

Discussion concerning TenPoundHammer

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by TenPoundHammer

I can see how my statements are my topic ban. It's why I backed off with the Jonathan Prince discussion. I know it's not the first time I brought something to BLPN with an implication that it be AFD'd, either. I agree that my topic-ban from XFD and BLAR is justifiable, and I'm trying to work within the limits of it, but I can see how taking something to BLPN and saying "anyone wanna AFD this" is dubious. Would verbiage on BLPN akin to "here's what I found or didn't find; what do you think should be done with this page?" be more acceptable?

I am considering drafting up an appeal to be submitted in due time and a game plan to tackle my history of XFD problems, although I'm not sure how something like this is going to weigh on it.

I think opening this discussion in this manner is way overboard, especially since I did catch myself and realize that what I was doing was dubious before I went any further. I move that this be closed as I feel this entire discussion is a massive overreaction and it seems I'm not alone in thinking so, as Barkeep49 and ScottishFinnishRadish pointed out.

Statement by Nil Einne

I have no clear opinion on whether TenPoundHammer's editing is a violation but FWIW this isn't the first time they've brought articles to BLPN either directly mentioning AFD or deletion as a possibility [38] (Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Kristan Cunningham) & [39] (Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive360#Rossi Morreale) or where they didn't but did suggest the article did not meet GNG [40] (Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive360#Myrlin Hermes). In all of those other 3, at least one editor has seen enough of a problem that the article was deleted after AFD (in 2 cases) or BLARed (in 1 case). But while recognising unsourced BLPs are a problem, I've never been convinced of the wisdom of TenPoundHammer doing this in light of their topic ban. And IMO, at a minimum if it continues, TenPoundHammer really should disclose their topic ban when opening these threads so anyone reading the thread is aware of the circumstances. However I've never spoken to them about my concerns as I wasn't that active for most of it, and even now I'm trying to limit my activity. It looks like no one else has spoken to them either. Nil Einne (talk) 08:20, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (username)

Result concerning TenPoundHammer

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I think TPH should be able to post at BLPN. What they should not do is make what are essentially AfD nomination statements with a nudge for someone else to go and nominate. TPH needs to knock that off and perhaps just ask for their tban to be repealed or loosened. Barkeep49 (talk) 14:25, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
Yeah, this is close enough to the edge that I wouldn't leap to an immediate sanction. A solid "Hey, knock that off" will probably be enough at this point. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:24, 26 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
I support closing this as TenPoundHammer is advised that they should not post comments suggesting an AfD. Johnuniq (talk) 04:42, 27 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05

Latest comment: 10 hours ago11 comments4 people in discussion

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear and substantial consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: Toa Nidhiki05 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Toa Nidhiki05 14:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Sanction being appealed: Topic ban from BLPs related to post-1992 American politics, broadly construed, imposed at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive327#Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Toa Nidhiki05 and logged at Wikipedia:Arbitration enforcement log/2022#American politics 2

Administrator imposing the sanction: Vanamonde93 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), Guerillero (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator: [41] [42]

Statement by Toa Nidhiki05

Since my topic ban was scaled back to only include BLPs, I've engaged in a lot of productive discussion and editing within the AMPol 2 topic area. Probably the biggest achievement has been consensus at Republican Party (United States) and Democratic Party (United States) on political positions - ending a dispute that has been ongoing for over a decade - but I've also engaged in routine maintenance and vandalism removal across the topic a. Lifting the restriction on BLPs would allow me to do the same in the entire scope of AMPol 2, including handling the sorts of routine vandalism that occurs on political BLPs. I think my pattern of behavior and achievements in the seven months or so since the ban has shown my general commitment to productive behavior and conduct within the topic area. Toa Nidhiki05 14:21, 27 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

To respond quickly to starship.paint: from my recollection, that first bit was in a fairly contentious period where frequent edits were being made, and discussion on the talk page was ongoing. The day of those edits the discussion was this (Proposal: "Big tent" for both parties), and edits I made there were in response to talk page discussion on the matter - specifically, in response to comments byCarlp941 and BootsED. The tl:dr of the broader dispute at hand was that a consensus had been reached to add content to the main page, but the consensus didn't actually follow specific reliable sources. After further research and discussion, this consensus was modified pursuant to reliable sources. During the interim period here, the page was fairly tumultuous on both mainspace and talkspace. If there was a technical 1RR violation there, I apologize, although the full context of talk page discussions is important here.

As to ongoing reverts - many of these are responding to vandalism or source hijacking maintenance. Unfortunately, political party pages are frequently subject to drive-by edits from users or IPs, specifically in the "ideology" or "faction" section of said pages. The most common mode of operation is to delete reliably sourced content or add content (without adjusting current reliable sources - creating the misconception existing sources support it). These drive-by editors generally do not explain their edit, nor do they stay behind to discuss. As it stands, we have strong consensus on the page for specific wordings in these sections, hashed out either through discussion or RfCs. Other reverts in this thread are generally in response to specific issues with sourcing or the addition of incorrect information/removal of correct information. I could provide context for each one if you absolutely desired - most of them were hashed out on the talk page. But broadly I would just categorize this as maintenance of a page that receives a lot of edits. Toa Nidhiki05 17:01, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

To respond succinctly, starship.paint:

The first one you listed ([43]) is two things: unexplained removal of reliably sourced content with a talk page consensus (removing center-right - very sloppy at that, as they didn't remove the citations), and also source hijacking (adding that only the "the populist faction" of the party receives support from specific groups).
The second one ([44]) kind of relates to question on whether party platforms in and of themselves are the most reliable source for what parties support. As far as I know this dispute has not actually been resolved, but the other editor in question here, JohnAdams1800, noted the specific dispute in the second edit ended with an impasse on amiable terms. I'd consider this broadly a low-level dispute, personally. Toa Nidhiki05 02:45, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

So for those specifically starship.paint:

For June 24, the sources don't actually back up the claims. Putting aside how poorly worded "it has been argued" is (who is arguing this?), the sources cited don't actually mention neoconservatism or populism at all. Just try searching either - you won't find it. There might be merit to talking about factional divides, but those added sources don't back up the claim, which means the content can't be added.
For July 31, that was part of the low-level neoliberalism dispute JohnAdams1800 mentioned (see: this talk page discussion). Several editors objected to identifying the party as having a core ideology of protectionism. The discussion kind of stalled out and is probably worth looking more closely into. On the face of it that content you mention could be noteworthy and I might have been too reckless in reverting the whole thing, but it's also not an especially important bit of information (USMCA was a fairly major trade deal, and the Biden admin isn't really noteworthy to what the GOP views trade as). Toa Nidhiki05 13:30, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by Vanamonde93

Statement by Guerillero

Statement by starship.paint

I thought I should support if Toa has not been involved in much controversy. Toa's talk page archives does have one controversy, a violation of 1RR on 19 June (another controversy is present but I think it was minor and resolved). 1RR: 01:34 / 21:35 / 21:35 again Since then, Toa has carried out a high number of reverts at the same article. 24 June / 25 June / 2 July / 3 July / 15 July / 21 July / 22 July / 24 July / 29 July / 31 July / 11 August / 15 August / 19 August / 20 August / I am not saying these reverts are bad, but perhaps we can get Toa's comments on the above (1RR and the volume of reverts). starship .paint (RUN) 15:06, 29 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Right, I skimmed through the "Proposal: "Big tent" for both parties" discussion and your reverts above. On the surface, based on the arguments brought forth and the sources brought forth, it seems that Toa's editing is within the bounds of reasonableness. But, perhaps Toa can offer more explanation for these three diffs in particular, as they seem to be separate from the issues in the other diffs: 24 July / 29 July / 31 July. starship .paint (RUN) 02:11, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
- Toa, for the 24 June diff, I was actually interested on the part that you did not respond about. You removed However, it has been argued that the preference of urban voters, college graduates and high-income earners continues to favor non-populist Republicans from the neoconservative establishment Reference 1 and Reference 2. For the 31 July diff, you, in part, removed As of 2024, the last free trade agreement enacted was the USMCA in 2020, which replaced NAFTA while maintaining most of its provisions. No other free trade agreements have been enacted during the Trump or Biden administrations Reference starship .paint (RUN) 03:15, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply
  - I've now read the sources and Toa's explanation and I am satisfied with the explanation. At this moment I am supporting the repeal of the topic ban unless some other significant evidence is brought up that would force me to re-evaluate my position. starship .paint (RUN) 08:00, 31 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by JohnAdams1800

I'm commenting about this appeal, but don't know the full details about this dispute. I agree with User talk:Toa Nidhiki05 that our edit dispute was a low-level dispute, specifically regarding support for neoliberalism by the Republican Party over time. We have both made thousands of edits, and occasional edit conflicts are bound to arise. The pages about political parties and politicians are among the most contentious pages, with edit conflicts much more frequent. Users often try to impose their own views when editing. I personally don't edit most BLPs of politicians. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 02:55, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by BootsED

I want to speak out in support of Toa Nidhiki05. I am surprised that there is a ban on Toa's contribution to post-1992 United States politics in place, as I found the work he did on the Republican Party page to be very well done and reasoned. I found his comments during a debate on the "factions" of the party helpful, constructive, and showing out-of-the-box thinking that greatly helped us better understand the problem at hand. I even left a positive note of thanks on his talk page.

In regards to the revert violation, my understanding is that it occurred near the end of the 24-hour period and was an honest mistake. Toa really took to improving the factions and political position section of the article and if my memory serves me correctly, there was a lot of back and forth from editors during this time, some of whom were confused or mistaken about what was discussed as the discussion on the topic at hand had gotten disorganized on the talk page and spread out over multiple sections.

While a lot of editors simply used their own personal opinion or low-quality references, Toa stuck to finding and providing higher-quality journal articles that helped ground the debate. Looking back at Toa's original ban, I think I understand how editing on Wikipedia can make people very frustrated, especially when some individuals are quite clearly either trolling or mistaken. I think that understanding intent is an important aspect to consider when punishing editors, and while obviously one should always strive to maintain proper decorum, I think that Toa's heart and intent on Wikipedia is in the right place and deserving of this appeal. BootsED (talk) 23:51, 30 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal by Toa Nidhiki05

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Silvertide goldwaves

Latest comment: 8 hours ago4 comments3 people in discussion

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Silvertide goldwaves

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Number 57 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 01:41, 31 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

User against whom enforcement is requested: Silvertide goldwaves (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4

Silvertide goldwaves made a large number of Israel-Palestine conflict edits prior to meeting the 30/500 requirement. While this was potentially an inadvertent breach, there were several other issues with the editing, much of which was highly partisan, and also contained misleading edit summaries like this.

Although they have now passed the 30/500 threshold, their edits continue to be problematic. When some of their edits were reverted (by another editor who does not meet the 30/500 requirement), they reinstated them with disparaging edit summaries like this.

I noticed some of their pre 30/500 edits today and undid them on the basis that they were ARBPIA violations. They then reinstated the edits with the same disparaging edit summary as mentioned above. I followed this up with a notice on their talkpage and re-reverted a couple of their edits that I felt were of concern (and on the basis that the initial revert was exempt from ARBPIA4 on the basis that it was enforcing the extended confirmed restriction).

Despite now being aware of the 1RR restriction, they reverted for a second time with another disparaging edit summary. They have since followed me to football-related articles that I have recently edited and deleted entire sections (e.g. here and here).

While this initially looked like an ARBPIA sanction might be required, their most recent behaviour makes it look like it might be a WP:NOTHERE case.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: here

In response to the comments below, my "allergy" to reliable sources is due to them not supporting the claims Silvertide goldwaves is using them to make. Here they claim that the source states that Shimshit is "Jewish-only". In fact the source describes them as Jewish but not Jewish-only, and more importantly, the Central Statistical Bureau's census figures for Shimshit (which can be downloaded from here (just click on the Excel icon; Shimshit is row 1,232 in the resulting file)) confirm that it is not Jewish-only – it has a population of 2,441, of which 2,428 are Jews and 13 are non-Jews. The same is true for Givat Ela (which Silvertide has also claimed is Jewish-only; the census figures (row 268) show it to have a population of 1,896, of which 1,873 are Jewish, 4 are Arab and 18 are other). The latter contradicts their use of the source to claim the villages prevent Arabs from living in them. Number 5 7 02:47, 31 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Discussion concerning Silvertide goldwaves

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Silvertide goldwaves

"I noticed some of their pre 30/500 edits" which ones? Be specific. What is "problematic"? Be specific. Do not waste anyone's time by dancing around the heart of the matter - your allergy to inconvenient yet reliable, even academic sources - by operating in vagaries.

"Following" you or me is A-OK on Wikipedia, and unsourced information on Wikipedia should be removed. That I see pages you edit, that have unsourced information (potentially fiction), necessitates their removal.

Statement by Zero0000

Silvertide goldwaves' edits have indeed been problematic, and I'm sorry I didn't turn on the fire hose earlier. The 500/30 violations need to be seen in the light of the absence of CT notification, but the poor sourcing and aggressive behavior are harder to excuse. I also disapprove of the mass removal rather than tagging of sourceable-but-unsourced information even though the rules allow it. Number 57's comments on "Jewish-only" communities don't work because there are many small communities in Israel with policies against Arab residents which nevertheless have a small number of such residents. This has been legal since 2014 [45] but I don't know the situation in the communities named here. Obviously that comes down to sourcing and it seems that SG's sources were not sufficient. I don't think SG is likely to be a good contributor in the near future, but (perhaps optimistically) a time-limited block might provide an opportunity to cool the enthusiasm and learn our policies and practices better. Zero^talk 09:43, 31 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Silvertide goldwaves

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I see some significant concerns here, including the fixed typos edit summaries for contentious substantive edits and the retaliatory deletion of uncontroversial material from unrelated football articles. Newyorkbrad (talk) 04:22, 31 August 2024 (UTC)Reply

Add topic

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[3] Армения в эпоху Юстиниана: Политическое состояние на основе Нахарского строя, СПб., 1908, cт. 402-404 (Nicholas Adontz, Armenia in the Period of Justinian: The political Conditions Based on the Naxarar System. Trans. into Eng. with expanded notes, bibliography, and appendices by Nina G. Garsoian, Lisbon, 1970)

[4] (Toumanoff 1963, p. 211, n. 23.).

[5] (in Russian) Stanislav Vladimirovich Dumin. Pyotr Grebelsky. The Noble Houses of the Russian Empire. Moscow, Russia: 1994. Думин С. В., Гребельский П. Х. Дворянские роды Российской Империи. — Москва, 1994

[a]

[b]

[1]

[2]

[3]

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